Just hearing you say "working in polar [coordinates]" opened some neural pathways for me on this topic. Cheers.
4 года назад+11
After digging for a long time , I finally found a pretty simple solution to make it work without daw or modular or VCV , all you need is a mixer with 4 outputs that accept midi cc to control output levels, and a a midi controller with build in midi effects ( LFos are best but sequencing midi cc works too) . I'm thinking about elektron digitakt for ex. Then I did a very basic math ( cosinus stuff) and found that if you apply to each of your output level a sin lfo offseted by 90° , the sound makes a perfect round ! you can also set more random LFos to have strange sound movements. Of course it's easier to work with mono sounds, but if you use stereo ones, you can offset Left and rights by 90° and the sound will move in stereo.... at the end you'll need many Lfos if you want multiple sound sources to move at the same time then stuff like squarp pyramid with 4 Lfo / channel comes handy , or mixers like kmix where you need just 1 lfo to make sound turns save a lot on Lfos ( depaite surround panning is very subtle) . You can also sequences various cc values instead of using Lfos.... and the best comes when you synchronize delay with your Lfos, it creates a rounding delay or quad ping pong delay.... with the sound rebounding everywhere in the room like a rubber ball. Thanks suzan Ciani for the show on friday in Geneva who inspired so much spending 1 night making that work.
Ahh! I just realized that it would be incredibly simple for me to incorporate quad in my system! I’ve been sitting in the center of a quad setup all along!! I have my eurorack/studio monitors on a wall facing the wall I have my hifi system! Time to experiment :)
Excellent! The Spatializer looks, and sounds, very interesting, especially when introducing external effects. I experimented also a bit with the Octal Router from the official VCV Rack plugins, and with it, just like with the A-144, it's possible to fade and morph between the different sources, so it can also add some spatial effects, while morphing between different wave forms and such.
Cool, I didn't know Buchla performed in the quadraphonic. That leads me back to The Heart Sutra.😇 This recalls what Tilopa told his disciple Naropa: “Son, it is not things that entrap you but your attachment to them.
Great video. I love playing in quad and do that at every opportunity. Two other options for quadraphonic performance are: Keith mcmillen k-mix has surround panning built in and can work stand-alone, and can even do 7.1 Elektron Octatrack ist a quad machine. Building a simple control surface on lemur makes it an amazing machine for quad sound diffusion. You don't need this control surface to play in quad with it though.
5 лет назад
thanks for the tips ! just ordered a K-mix, looks like the simplest thing
Very informative. Thanks for posting this. After watching your video conversation with Suzanne Ciani, I started thinking about what I could use for Quadraphonic in my own setup. I enjoyed her commentary on how to use Quadraphonic in live performance, so your video on how to set it up inexpensively is a really nice addition.
I just watched this and your 1st video with Suzanne Ciani. Old videos but still relevant and very useful. I really liked the reverb and delay distance tricks. Thanks! I'm considering getting a second Make Noise X-Pan, as I already have one, and doing some quadraphonics with them.
Amazing stuff, I've been waiting for a while to have more options in order to go Quadraphonic, but I have a feeling we're not just there yet and that we have to push that idea further. So the video with Suzanne and this one is a major leap forward for the community to embrace this idea which is old and new at the same time! So a big thnx for that! I'd love a video with the Koma Poltergeist, which is a game changer for eurorack and it needs to be a bit cheaper and more widely available.
NICE! I think this sort of stuff will become more and more important over the next years. Not just for VR and such but also for things like 3D headphones (eg the Audeze Mobius). Exciting stuff!
Thanks - I hope to realise it somehow dawless via my beebo - 4 outputs, quasi modularity and dedicated development seemed the most promising approach :)
Both RUclips and Facebook now support ambisonic audio... there are some tutorials out there but nothing with ambisonics seems to be straight forward. Also, when translated to headphone/binaural (no special headphones required for binaural btw) ambisonics to me is not as convincing as binaural. Quad is simpler and while it is cool, I think mostly applicable to live situations (most people are not going to setup a quad system these days for listening) with electronic music that is not randomly diffused, but planned for quad. Your timing for this video is awesome as I have researching this path for my own use for some time. I think for its simplicity, quad is the way to go and I hope to be able to incorporate it into my live performances in the near future. The Keith McMillan K-Mix is something I acquired recently for this purpose and will be trying as soon as time permits. Keep up the great work!
Distributing music with more than 2 channels is the bit where I used to get stuck. Hearing that RUclips and Facebook both support ambisonic is interesting. I guess that's the benefit of 360/VR/AR becoming more popular. I remixed a couple of projects that I did almost 10 years ago, by 'flipping' the stereo field and pushing the rear speakers way back in the mix. Maybe I should get back into surround stuff.
I've been making my own custom quadraphonic encoded tracks using simple programs like Audacity for years. Yes, encoded quad isn't as good as discrete, but at least it can function as a stereo track if the listener doesn't have a decoder. Take a look at Dynaquad's and EV-4's matrix encoding values. It's merely a matter of selectively mixing and inverting your four tracks down to two. One thing that I take into consideration is how people actually listen. The stereo separation a person perceives behind them is far narrower than in front (just listen to a good stereo track with your back turned to hear the difference). Wendy Carlos (yes, that Wendy Carlos) made some good points about quad mixing on her website. Other than that, cool video!
Always one step ahead lol, I have bought two mixers and going to buy another interface that can be used without comp, already have 4 identical monitors for dawless set up.....I was in a club 20 years ago when they swept sound around...never forgot how awesome it felt lol
The K-mix can do it, either with the dedicated surround mode, or by using one of the aux sends as the rear speakers. You'd be pretty much limited to manual control though... The K-mix does have extensive midi capabilities, but you'd need a whole lot of midi lfo's to modulate all those parameters for you efficiently. Just placing different sources somewhere in the quad field manually is super easy though.
I have a Keith McMillen K-Mix, and if I am not mistaken, it has built-in surround sound mixing capabilities that should be configurable in a pure dawless setup.... but will check ;-)
4 года назад
Hi, did you figured out how to make the Kmix make sound move without a daw ? I have the keithmcmillen midi / usb converter but didn't succeed, I can make sound move in surround mode while its connected to ableton, but not dawless, thx in advance
Nice work sir. I’m doing a quad live gig in a few weeks and was looking for some tricks, The first vid I hit was you interview with Susan Cianni Your TOP HIT!
hi! will this work using a focusrite scarlett 2i4? it has 2 balanced outputs and 2 unbalanced outputs. And what if I use different monitors? I have a pair of Mackie mr8 and a pair of Mackie cr4. thanks, any advice is appreciated :)
I've often considered trying to build eurorack modules with an rPI and VCV, but VCV is not compiled for ARM processors. I recommend an Intel NUC. It needs external power, but it's x64 and will run VCV rack and a few modules without clipping. Should work even better if you're using an audio interface. If you want to pick up a NUC and get it set up for VCV, i can be of assistance. I work with them frequently. We usually install these in conference rooms where you just need limited computing, like powerpoint, video conferences, etc.
is it possible to mix in 5.1 or 7.1 in ableton ? Cant seem to find any encoder that would work with ableton in a live situation. I have 24 trs inputs and 24 trs outputs available in my audio setup. also have lightpipe.
The higher-end Boss loop stations can also do quad, albeit without automation (unless you use an LFO via midi). I loop stereo effects and have different notes going out to different speakers on my RC-50
hello, OI cannot find Surround Panner in my Live 10 nor can I download it from the ableton website (download button wont click) really confused. Any ideas?
Wonderful video and still relevant 4 years later for newbies like myself. So here it goes the newbie questions: When you connect 4 different audio to the ES-8, where does the ES-8 goes? I guess the computer and then additional sound card with 4 outputs? And, with a Live+Surround Panner, would something like the Scarlett 8i6 G3 do the job?
Thanks! ES-8 is an audio interface like any other except that it’s DC coupled. Great for eurorack cv but you don’t need it if you’re just sending out quad audio - any interface with four outputs will do
Hi Ziv! Back watching this video for the 12th time (thank you for your book material on this too, btw). I've been on the hunt for quadraphonic concerts to attend before I take a real crack at the modular approach on my own. Ciani is performing one show in the U.S. 2000 miles away from me this year. Figured I'd ask if you know of any electronic musicians who perform in Quad before consulting Reddit. Thanks in advance to any who can answer!
Next step, z dimension. 8 speakers! Seems like it would be more of the same concept in vcv rack at least, provided one had an 8 channel out audio interface. When you mentioned 4 output interfaces not being cheap I would recommend looking at the behringer umc404hd. I'm pretty sure that has 4 outputs and costs less than £100
Thanks for you great videos! Any thoughts on the Quad sound setups you've demoed vs 1st Order Ambisonics (which is also 4 channel)? Any advantages to composing for Ambisonics (assuming you'd use a 4 speaker array in both cases)?
You're welcome! The only advantage I can think of for ambisonics is that it's easy to record with a central mic (unless I missed something - let me know!) I find quad/object based systems much more intuitive to program and set up
Thank you. Not that I’m familiar with. I tried researching some plugins that encode 5.1 but didn’t find anything affordable - most of these are geared to video editing software. I believe logic has this capability built in but haven’t tried it
Like you said, RUclips doesn’t support quad channel audio, and after a quick search I could not find evidence that major audio platforms support this. The broad audience uses stereo headphones or stereo speakers so it is unlikely that 4-channel formats will be accepted. Isn’t there a way to convert 4-channel audio to some kind of pseudo-acoustic stereo that preserves spatial directions?
Not that I know. Mass distribution aside (which can be solved with 5.1 encoding) I think many people watching just enjoy playing in their studio or small venues that can easily get two more speakers going
Is there any particular secret to quad music files or is it just 2 stereo files dedicated to front and back systems? Been trying to find something simple and free file wise to test my setup but dont really know what to look for. My plan was to setup my soundcard through ableton to have 4 outs and send two stereo files like a mentioned above, is that the correct method?
If there were any secrets hopefully they’re explained in the video! Yes that’s the correct method - two stereo or four mono files. You can generate your own using the methods shown in this video
Ok sounds good, yah guess ill just make my own for now this video was fantastic. I mostly just wanted to see if there was a standard as its proved difficult to find quad compatible music files anywhere in digital form for a simple system test
This is really eye-opening, and I loved the cover! Do you think it would make sense to try to convert a quadraphonic performance into an ambisonic format for youtube to try to translate the quad experience? I saw the 360 degree video on Colin Bender's channel and was quite blown away.
Thanks :) can you add a link to that? Would love to hear it. Generally any stereo or binaural recording I’ve heard doesn’t compare but would love to be surprised
ruclips.net/video/b-5SYFqmsOY/видео.html this video, not sure if youtube does something more than lowering the volume of the sounds that are behind you, or is there is some filtering involved as well, but the effect is there, would be even cooler in VR. I feel like the fact that rear mics capture mostly the room sound add to it as well.
1:56 Does AudioFuse allow to send those two pairs simultaneously? Isn’t it just A/B switching? I’m just testing this interface and can’t make it working.
In theory, if you don't have Max for live (like me) you could route audio of each Ableton Live track/stem to VCV rack using the VCV bridge plugin (setup of VCV bridge here: ruclips.net/video/PZlfLvzFaFA/видео.html) and using the Quad Panner module in each port (track/stem). Just beware that you may experience latency and popping in the audio due to high memory usage. Hope this solves a problem for u guys :)
Looking at that digitone set up at the end and it has me curious. Presumably with a bit of fiddling you could send the midi cc out such that the midi tracks sequence positions in space in parallel to the synth tracks. What would the ideal 'quad spatializer' look like do you think?
@@loopop I'd love to hear your thoughts on an ideal machine in a video at some point :) it's perhaps unsurprising but disappointing all the same that there's no modern synth really designed with quad in mind.
@@loopop side note: I know the digitone only has stereo outs so you could only pan 2 tracks in quad space but is there any way you could use overbridge for individual outs and pan them in a daw in real time? I'm getting a digitone soon and not quite sure on the limitations in that respect.
@@loopop loopop if it was mono you could only pan all the tracks (or whatever audio out you have) together no? In the video you hard pan 1 track left and 3 right. When you spatialize the right channel those 3 tracks have to move together or am I misunderstanding how it works? I.e. is it possible to place track 1 of the digitone in front left, track 2 in front right, track 3 back left and track 4 back right?
For a few reasons - first, it doesn’t sound the same. I tried - binaural is cool but there’s no real perception of whether something is in front of you or behind you. Second of course, is that even if it did work then you couldn’t perform in front of an audience (unless they were all equipped with binaural headphones...)
I totally understand why you want to do quad for live purposes of course. I don't agree on the perception part, when done right it can sound pretty close on headphones IMHO.
Re Headphones: I would truly love to hear an example - I think it would be awesome if so - please send a link if you have one - of a binaural clip where you can clearly discern if the sound is coming from the front or the back
I assume you're already familiar with the barbershop example? If that doesn't work for you I don't have a better one. I guess you want a more music related example, let me think about that
Yes I heard that one - it's really great - left right separation is fantastic - but at least for me, I couldn't tell whether he was up front or behind me.
This video doesn't attempt to include every possible quad solution, especially not those that were released after the video was made... (time machine still broken)
Ha I actually thought of that but had to leave a set up for the next Part 3 :) Theoretically it’s possible though practically I assume no cars do anything other than route the left right back and forth
Atmos in streaming audio didn’t really exist at the time that I made this video, as you may have seen I just made an extensive video covering that topic recently
is someone brave enough to enlighten me where does this trend of working with 24 bars loops comes from!? i don't find in pace with the natural environment... i find it very A.I. 'ish ... weirdos... thank you for the hardware specs, by the way! :D
Just hearing you say "working in polar [coordinates]" opened some neural pathways for me on this topic. Cheers.
After digging for a long time , I finally found a pretty simple solution to make it work without daw or modular or VCV , all you need is a mixer with 4 outputs that accept midi cc to control output levels, and a a midi controller with build in midi effects ( LFos are best but sequencing midi cc works too) . I'm thinking about elektron digitakt for ex. Then I did a very basic math ( cosinus stuff) and found that if you apply to each of your output level a sin lfo offseted by 90° , the sound makes a perfect round ! you can also set more random LFos to have strange sound movements. Of course it's easier to work with mono sounds, but if you use stereo ones, you can offset Left and rights by 90° and the sound will move in stereo.... at the end you'll need many Lfos if you want multiple sound sources to move at the same time then stuff like squarp pyramid with 4 Lfo / channel comes handy , or mixers like kmix where you need just 1 lfo to make sound turns save a lot on Lfos ( depaite surround panning is very subtle) . You can also sequences various cc values instead of using Lfos.... and the best comes when you synchronize delay with your Lfos, it creates a rounding delay or quad ping pong delay.... with the sound rebounding everywhere in the room like a rubber ball. Thanks suzan Ciani for the show on friday in Geneva who inspired so much spending 1 night making that work.
gimme a few months, will get KMX mixer and report back
Ahh! I just realized that it would be incredibly simple for me to incorporate quad in my system! I’ve been sitting in the center of a quad setup all along!! I have my eurorack/studio monitors on a wall facing the wall I have my hifi system! Time to experiment :)
Men! Your Modular is SICK!!! I loved it
Excellent! The Spatializer looks, and sounds, very interesting, especially when introducing external effects. I experimented also a bit with the Octal Router from the official VCV Rack plugins, and with it, just like with the A-144, it's possible to fade and morph between the different sources, so it can also add some spatial effects, while morphing between different wave forms and such.
Cool, I didn't know Buchla performed in the quadraphonic. That leads me back to The Heart Sutra.😇 This recalls what Tilopa told his disciple Naropa: “Son, it is not things that entrap you but your attachment to them.
came back to enjoy this again!
i was thinking of a surround live-setup for several years now. it's about time
Great video. I love playing in quad and do that at every opportunity.
Two other options for quadraphonic performance are:
Keith mcmillen k-mix has surround panning built in and can work stand-alone, and can even do 7.1
Elektron Octatrack ist a quad machine. Building a simple control surface on lemur makes it an amazing machine for quad sound diffusion. You don't need this control surface to play in quad with it though.
thanks for the tips ! just ordered a K-mix, looks like the simplest thing
Very informative. Thanks for posting this.
After watching your video conversation with Suzanne Ciani, I started thinking about what I could use for Quadraphonic in my own setup. I enjoyed her commentary on how to use Quadraphonic in live performance, so your video on how to set it up inexpensively is a really nice addition.
Simply goose bumps..Trent Reznor is the real reason i approached piano in electronic music.
Lol, I was thinking about budgets and kidneys when you mentioned it. Love it! Unique video thanks!!
I just watched this and your 1st video with Suzanne Ciani. Old videos but still relevant and very useful. I really liked the reverb and delay distance tricks. Thanks! I'm considering getting a second Make Noise X-Pan, as I already have one, and doing some quadraphonics with them.
Amazing stuff, I've been waiting for a while to have more options in order to go Quadraphonic, but I have a feeling we're not just there yet and that we have to push that idea further. So the video with Suzanne and this one is a major leap forward for the community to embrace this idea which is old and new at the same time! So a big thnx for that! I'd love a video with the Koma Poltergeist, which is a game changer for eurorack and it needs to be a bit cheaper and more widely available.
Thanks! I reached out to Koma but it turns out the module is being discontinued
@@loopop Really? That's a pity! Maybe they have plans for a new version?
NICE! I think this sort of stuff will become more and more important over the next years. Not just for VR and such but also for things like 3D headphones (eg the Audeze Mobius). Exciting stuff!
Thanks - I hope to realise it somehow dawless via my beebo - 4 outputs, quasi modularity and dedicated development seemed the most promising approach :)
KNAS Quad Massager is a killer hardware quadrophonic panner with joystick and lfo control over X / Y axis - cv control over lfo and axis
Thanks! Fantastic video!
Both RUclips and Facebook now support ambisonic audio... there are some tutorials out there but nothing with ambisonics seems to be straight forward. Also, when translated to headphone/binaural (no special headphones required for binaural btw) ambisonics to me is not as convincing as binaural. Quad is simpler and while it is cool, I think mostly applicable to live situations (most people are not going to setup a quad system these days for listening) with electronic music that is not randomly diffused, but planned for quad. Your timing for this video is awesome as I have researching this path for my own use for some time. I think for its simplicity, quad is the way to go and I hope to be able to incorporate it into my live performances in the near future. The Keith McMillan K-Mix is something I acquired recently for this purpose and will be trying as soon as time permits. Keep up the great work!
Distributing music with more than 2 channels is the bit where I used to get stuck. Hearing that RUclips and Facebook both support ambisonic is interesting. I guess that's the benefit of 360/VR/AR becoming more popular. I remixed a couple of projects that I did almost 10 years ago, by 'flipping' the stereo field and pushing the rear speakers way back in the mix. Maybe I should get back into surround stuff.
I've been making my own custom quadraphonic encoded tracks using simple programs like Audacity for years. Yes, encoded quad isn't as good as discrete, but at least it can function as a stereo track if the listener doesn't have a decoder. Take a look at Dynaquad's and EV-4's matrix encoding values. It's merely a matter of selectively mixing and inverting your four tracks down to two. One thing that I take into consideration is how people actually listen. The stereo separation a person perceives behind them is far narrower than in front (just listen to a good stereo track with your back turned to hear the difference). Wendy Carlos (yes, that Wendy Carlos) made some good points about quad mixing on her website. Other than that, cool video!
Always one step ahead lol, I have bought two mixers and going to buy another interface that can be used without comp, already have 4 identical monitors for dawless set up.....I was in a club 20 years ago when they swept sound around...never forgot how awesome it felt lol
Let’s bring it back!!
@@loopop YES SIR!
The K-mix can do it, either with the dedicated surround mode, or by using one of the aux sends as the rear speakers. You'd be pretty much limited to manual control though... The K-mix does have extensive midi capabilities, but you'd need a whole lot of midi lfo's to modulate all those parameters for you efficiently. Just placing different sources somewhere in the quad field manually is super easy though.
I have a Keith McMillen K-Mix, and if I am not mistaken, it has built-in surround sound mixing capabilities that should be configurable in a pure dawless setup.... but will check ;-)
Hi, did you figured out how to make the Kmix make sound move without a daw ? I have the keithmcmillen midi / usb converter but didn't succeed, I can make sound move in surround mode while its connected to ableton, but not dawless, thx in advance
Ok found my mistake !
Brilliant! I was thinking about playing with 4ch ever since I saw a set-up like that in a gallery, your video is perfect to use as a reference :)
Great! If you have a chance to share results please do
Thanks for quadraphying me Loopop! :)
My pleasure - thanks for being a part of this :)
Maan, let's make a quad setup for a show in the future, Scar!
Found it :) Thanks again!
Top of the Morning sir! Loopop I MUST GET MY HANDS ON THAT TOUCHE...this lil guy seems Awesome.
Nice work sir. I’m doing a quad live gig in a few weeks and was looking for some tricks, The first vid I hit was you interview with Susan Cianni
Your TOP HIT!
Thanks! You MUST record and share in quad!
amazing :) - really good !
Good cover! Ghosts
Very nice vid ! Now I wonder why I bought Brauer Motion one year ago.... ( And I need to sell my car to grab that Aither & Bitbox combo !!! )
hi! will this work using a focusrite scarlett 2i4? it has 2 balanced outputs and 2 unbalanced outputs. And what if I use different monitors? I have a pair of Mackie mr8 and a pair of Mackie cr4. thanks, any advice is appreciated :)
I've often considered trying to build eurorack modules with an rPI and VCV, but VCV is not compiled for ARM processors. I recommend an Intel NUC. It needs external power, but it's x64 and will run VCV rack and a few modules without clipping. Should work even better if you're using an audio interface. If you want to pick up a NUC and get it set up for VCV, i can be of assistance. I work with them frequently. We usually install these in conference rooms where you just need limited computing, like powerpoint, video conferences, etc.
is it possible to mix in 5.1 or 7.1 in ableton ? Cant seem to find any encoder that would work with ableton in a live situation. I have 24 trs inputs and 24 trs outputs available in my audio setup. also have lightpipe.
Absolutely Yes and I can do this with the Analog4 with its separate outputs and 4 speakers.
True!
loopop Well its got me thinking along those lines and I can experiment with what I have.
gi, i cant find the max 4 live device for the quad pannin :(
Just awesome! Thanks! :D
The higher-end Boss loop stations can also do quad, albeit without automation (unless you use an LFO via midi). I loop stereo effects and have different notes going out to different speakers on my RC-50
Thank you so much.
hello, OI cannot find Surround Panner in my Live 10 nor can I download it from the ableton website (download button wont click) really confused. Any ideas?
Wonderful video and still relevant 4 years later for newbies like myself. So here it goes the newbie questions: When you connect 4 different audio to the ES-8, where does the ES-8 goes? I guess the computer and then additional sound card with 4 outputs? And, with a Live+Surround Panner, would something like the Scarlett 8i6 G3 do the job?
Thanks! ES-8 is an audio interface like any other except that it’s DC coupled. Great for eurorack cv but you don’t need it if you’re just sending out quad audio - any interface with four outputs will do
@@loopop Thanks!
Hi Ziv! Back watching this video for the 12th time (thank you for your book material on this too, btw). I've been on the hunt for quadraphonic concerts to attend before I take a real crack at the modular approach on my own. Ciani is performing one show in the U.S. 2000 miles away from me this year. Figured I'd ask if you know of any electronic musicians who perform in Quad before consulting Reddit. Thanks in advance to any who can answer!
My pleasure and thanks for your support. No, none come to mind but if you find out please let me/us know back here!
Wondering if there’s a way to rout inside the mpc live to achieve quadraphonic using 4 of the six outputs?
Next step, z dimension. 8 speakers! Seems like it would be more of the same concept in vcv rack at least, provided one had an 8 channel out audio interface.
When you mentioned 4 output interfaces not being cheap I would recommend looking at the behringer umc404hd. I'm pretty sure that has 4 outputs and costs less than £100
Thanks for you great videos! Any thoughts on the Quad sound setups you've demoed vs 1st Order Ambisonics (which is also 4 channel)? Any advantages to composing for Ambisonics (assuming you'd use a 4 speaker array in both cases)?
You're welcome! The only advantage I can think of for ambisonics is that it's easy to record with a central mic (unless I missed something - let me know!) I find quad/object based systems much more intuitive to program and set up
Would it work to use a QS Quadraphonic encoder on the RUclips audio?
What up Trent reznor? Lol edit...just finished the vid...it really is nin haha
Enjoy Electronics "Reminder" is a quadriplegic delay/verb unit designed for live hands-on use. Hopefully you can get your hands on one!
11:52.... I suddenly realized I was hopelessly lost. Poured some scotch.
The McMillen K-mix mixer will do surround mixing without a computer I think...
Good stuff bruh..
So this might be a dumb question, but how do you output a quad mix from VCV rack to 4 PA speakers?
using an interface with four outputs. I show it in the video too
Can you not do it with the Keith McMillan K-Mix?
Excellent and informative as always. Is there a way to then export from Live out to a format that can be played back through a 5.1 system?
Thank you. Not that I’m familiar with. I tried researching some plugins that encode 5.1 but didn’t find anything affordable - most of these are geared to video editing software. I believe logic has this capability built in but haven’t tried it
Like you said, RUclips doesn’t support quad channel audio, and after a quick search I could not find evidence that major audio platforms support this. The broad audience uses stereo headphones or stereo speakers so it is unlikely that 4-channel formats will be accepted. Isn’t there a way to convert 4-channel audio to some kind of pseudo-acoustic stereo that preserves spatial directions?
Not that I know. Mass distribution aside (which can be solved with 5.1 encoding) I think many people watching just enjoy playing in their studio or small venues that can easily get two more speakers going
Is there any particular secret to quad music files or is it just 2 stereo files dedicated to front and back systems? Been trying to find something simple and free file wise to test my setup but dont really know what to look for. My plan was to setup my soundcard through ableton to have 4 outs and send two stereo files like a mentioned above, is that the correct method?
If there were any secrets hopefully they’re explained in the video! Yes that’s the correct method - two stereo or four mono files. You can generate your own using the methods shown in this video
Ok sounds good, yah guess ill just make my own for now this video was fantastic. I mostly just wanted to see if there was a standard as its proved difficult to find quad compatible music files anywhere in digital form for a simple system test
This is really eye-opening, and I loved the cover! Do you think it would make sense to try to convert a quadraphonic performance into an ambisonic format for youtube to try to translate the quad experience? I saw the 360 degree video on Colin Bender's channel and was quite blown away.
Thanks :) can you add a link to that? Would love to hear it. Generally any stereo or binaural recording I’ve heard doesn’t compare but would love to be surprised
ruclips.net/video/b-5SYFqmsOY/видео.html this video, not sure if youtube does something more than lowering the volume of the sounds that are behind you, or is there is some filtering involved as well, but the effect is there, would be even cooler in VR. I feel like the fact that rear mics capture mostly the room sound add to it as well.
(just a note, the spatial sound didn't work in Safari but did in Chrome)
1:56 Does AudioFuse allow to send those two pairs simultaneously? Isn’t it just A/B switching? I’m just testing this interface and can’t make it working.
Sorry, don't bother. I found that option in the app: Speaker B from Phone 2.
Just saw your comment- yes ;)
Can anyone tell me what the red and black touch controller/keyboard in the beginning is called?
Haken Continuum
Which iPad app is that you’re using to control the ES-8 @loopop ?
At which point in the video? This was a while back so I don’t remember the entire thing…
@@loopop Starting at 7:15 in the video
@@TMeier that’s the companion app to aither from instruo, not ES-8
@@loopop Ah! Got it. Love how you can record an automation movement so quickly with a touch gesture. Great concept for a modulation source.
@@TMeier for sure. Check out also Ribn
In theory, if you don't have Max for live (like me) you could route audio of each Ableton Live track/stem to VCV rack using the VCV bridge plugin (setup of VCV bridge here: ruclips.net/video/PZlfLvzFaFA/видео.html) and using the Quad Panner module in each port (track/stem). Just beware that you may experience latency and popping in the audio due to high memory usage. Hope this solves a problem for u guys :)
I monitor my interface mixer with yamaha surround reciever
I cant find the Ableton m4L Surround Panner anywhere on the internet. Can you please link it?
on the ableton page for surround panner there is no download link!
and its not in my M4L! I have live 10!
Rosetta Stoned first result in google ;) ...: www.ableton.com/en/packs/surround-panner/
Hey @@TheSilentCartgraph3r, did you managed to find it & download it? Im begging to find it too!
I can use Frames as a quad panner.... but I don't have a quad monitoring solution. TO THE MUSIC STORE!!!
Looking at that digitone set up at the end and it has me curious. Presumably with a bit of fiddling you could send the midi cc out such that the midi tracks sequence positions in space in parallel to the synth tracks.
What would the ideal 'quad spatializer' look like do you think?
Sure - you could. The ideal quad specializer would require more thought and space than a comment section allows - but it’s certainly worth an episode!
@@loopop I'd love to hear your thoughts on an ideal machine in a video at some point :) it's perhaps unsurprising but disappointing all the same that there's no modern synth really designed with quad in mind.
@@loopop side note: I know the digitone only has stereo outs so you could only pan 2 tracks in quad space but is there any way you could use overbridge for individual outs and pan them in a daw in real time? I'm getting a digitone soon and not quite sure on the limitations in that respect.
Thales Fechner for sure. As I show in the video you could pan it even if it was mono
@@loopop loopop if it was mono you could only pan all the tracks (or whatever audio out you have) together no? In the video you hard pan 1 track left and 3 right. When you spatialize the right channel those 3 tracks have to move together or am I misunderstanding how it works? I.e. is it possible to place track 1 of the digitone in front left, track 2 in front right, track 3 back left and track 4 back right?
Why not, instead of quad, do it in Binaural format? That way it works on headphones as well.
For a few reasons - first, it doesn’t sound the same. I tried - binaural is cool but there’s no real perception of whether something is in front of you or behind you. Second of course, is that even if it did work then you couldn’t perform in front of an audience (unless they were all equipped with binaural headphones...)
I totally understand why you want to do quad for live purposes of course. I don't agree on the perception part, when done right it can sound pretty close on headphones IMHO.
Re Headphones: I would truly love to hear an example - I think it would be awesome if so - please send a link if you have one - of a binaural clip where you can clearly discern if the sound is coming from the front or the back
I assume you're already familiar with the barbershop example? If that doesn't work for you I don't have a better one. I guess you want a more music related example, let me think about that
Yes I heard that one - it's really great - left right separation is fantastic - but at least for me, I couldn't tell whether he was up front or behind me.
how about jouranalogs morph 4 , and also planar 2 ..
This video doesn't attempt to include every possible quad solution, especially not those that were released after the video was made... (time machine still broken)
@@loopop yeah sorry I didn’t realise it’s was this old .. kinda thought though people might see the comment and help them make a choice 👍
@@ArkaHtun for sure
😎
can car stereo play Quadraphonic Music?
Ha I actually thought of that but had to leave a set up for the next Part 3 :) Theoretically it’s possible though practically I assume no cars do anything other than route the left right back and forth
Man I'd like to write hard rock type music and record in quad
How about atmos?
Atmos in streaming audio didn’t really exist at the time that I made this video, as you may have seen I just made an extensive video covering that topic recently
@@loopop appreciate your reply... only recently started this wonderous journey... Thankyou 😎
is someone brave enough to enlighten me where does this trend of working with 24 bars loops comes from!? i don't find in pace with the natural environment... i find it very A.I. 'ish ... weirdos... thank you for the hardware specs, by the way! :D
I want to write hard rock songs in quad or surround like every livingroom has
I need help
Next stop, BINAURAL since EVERYONE is on headphones now.
Yes I have that episode planned, just need to make it...
@@loopop Im SO in for that one, been trying to push that cause for … A LONG TIME.