"So who was the flying character for Team Rose?" "It was Omochao, right?" "Seems fine to me" "And Vector hangs out with Blaze and Silver, right?" "Not like we got anyone better to go with them" "Not even that little rabbit?" "Shhhhhh, she doesn't exist any more."
@@catcocomics1601 The weirdest thing about this is that they gave us teams in Sonic heroes and then have done everything they can to not bring certain teams back together. The only teams that have stayed the same are team sonic and team dark 😅 Actually no, the weirdest thing is that as much as I love Big coming back they still didn’t think Cream should too and she used to be one of the main characters 😅
@@ROT695 understand the current Sonic Team writers care nothing for the actual Sonic franchise and are only really good at writing smooth brain saturday morning cartoons. I'm honestly willing to bet the reason Cream just doesn't exist anymore is there are just no cringe memes about her. There is no "OH NO" or "Ow the Edge" for her, she's just a good kid who looks up to everyone and there for she "isn't funny".
@@catcocomics1601 Probably yeah. I always liked what she brought to the group though. Whenever she was around she’d bring out a different side to everyone that you wouldn’t usually see. Sonic would show a more calm and caring side whilst Amy actually had someone to talk normally with. In a way she kind of grounded them a little. I guess I have a strong opinion on her not being around because I got into Sonic when she was part of the group. Advance 3 was the game I would play all the time and also used to watch Sonic X 😅
Tails was probably the saddest change for me. Seeing him go from a strong and independent hero to essentially a coward who needs constant help from Sonic was just sorta heart-breaking. His character development in SA1 and 2 was really inspiring, I almost looked up to him edit: HOLY SHIT YOU ALL WROTE A BIBLE HERE LMAOOO
There's nothing wrong with Tails being scared. After all he was scared before setting off to stop Eggman in SA1, but despite his fear, he dug deep to find hope and courage and put them into practice to save the day. Now if they just had happen in Forces rather than having stuck trying to put over a bad tribute act masquerading as Sonic. Seriously, we could have easily dropped Classic and nothing would have been lost, what with Sonic and the OC having 2D sections of their own. And with having Tails actually playable could have allowed a chance for the story to be expanded upon. Though I also kinda feel like the OC is just as guilty for stealing Tails' spotlight as well, because when Sonic was being sucked into Null Space, if it was anything before 2010, Tails would have totally leapt into action to help Sonic, but sorry kid, you're not playable so that's the OC's job. I hate that thing just as much as I hate Classic in Forces, because if they weren't there we could have gotten the other characters playable again and it's been over 10 years now since that happened in a mainline 3D title!
Also for Tails in Forces I have my own thing which basically during the fight against Infinite rather rather than having his tablet thing he'd be racing to met Sonic with the Chaos Emeralds. To help turn the tide in the war against Eggman. But by the time he gets there he finds Sonic fighting Infinite and its not going well. Filled with a surge of emotion, seeing Sonic in such a bad way, Tails lets out a scream and goes Super (god, could this be anymore Dragonball like?). He puts up a good fight against Infinite but it's not enough as he burns himself out unable to beat him. Sonic would have gotten enough time to catch his breath to save Tails before Knuckles swings by to get the fox cub out of there on Sonic's instructions. Word later reaches the resistance that Sonic dead and Tails loses it. He runs away and spends the next six months wallowing in despair until one day while looking for a place to hide during a thunderstorm he finds himself in his old workshop, and inside it the original Tornado, Sonic's plane. Despite being depressed for the past six months, the sight of the bi-plane puts a spark back in Tails' eyes as he tries to get the plane back in the air, but due to his mental state not being the greatest he can't do it. He looks at the set of keys Sonic gave him for the plane and after remembering what happened to Sonic he breaks down into tears feeling guilty that he couldn't save him. Chaos then appears which scares the young fox cub, much like in Forces, and when he attacks Tails the fox cub makes no real effort to defend himself because his confidence has been shattered and he feels he can't fight anymore. After being smacked about by Chaos for abit, he sees him turn his attention to the Tornado and begin attacking it. Tails' eyes widen in horror not wanting to see the plane, his only connection he has left to Sonic be destroyed, and that forces him to get back to his feet and fight. After driving Chaos away he feels a weight's been lift and manages to get the Tornado running again so he can get back home to the resistance base and help the others. The ofcourse word would get that Sonic is alive and Tails go storm the prison to save him, after doing a few other missions while building his confidence back up. Also as well in the time leading up to that, with fighting the war against Eggman, in Forces, it wouldn't have been going so well and through running and hiding for a while it'd start to take it's toll on Tails' metal state. Hence why he's freezing up while facing regular Egg Pawns he would have smashed no problem, without breaking a sweat. But after Infinite "kills" Sonic, it proves to be the straw that broke the camel's back, hence why he's not as vengeful as he was in SA2, after seeing Eggman "kill" Sonic, by ejecting him out into space in that pod. I really hope he gets a chance to shine again and remind everyone he's the little fox who could. Rather than being reduced to enhancement talent to make Classic (Sonic) look strong again, or any other character they try to bring in and will probably never be seen again, like the OC of Forces.
@@DemonDethchase I agree. Tails being scared or worried is no problem. HES A KID! i dont want tails to be a badass. But after Sa1 and 2 tails should have atleast fought chao off. he did in SA1. Tails had the best devolopment besides shadow in the whole francise, but sega threw it all away. If tails doesnt make a comback in the next future game then Tails will dig a hole too deep for him to get out of. I miss the old tails!
@@awesomezebroz_2949 as I said, I blame the OC and Classic, as Sega must have been. "Sorry kid, but we can't have you (Tails) fight like you used to. Just look cute and helpless, so make Classic and the OC can look good." I feel Tails in Forces is like how WWE treat alot of their talent these days. Classic (Sonic) the returning Legend brought in for a one off match, to try and drum up interest in the event. Where they're made to look strong, and to be put over Wrestlemania, never to be seen again - until next year - at the expense of someone (Tails) who is there day in and day out, regardless of the damage it could do to their character. And the Player Avatar is the Celebrity brought in for a one off match, to try and drum up interest in the event. Where they're made to look strong, and to be put over Wrestlemania, never to be seen again at the expense of someone (Tails) who is there day in and day out regardless of the damage it could do to their character. Tails isn't some enhancement talent to put over other characters! He's the little fox who could! At least that Sonic And Tails R is giving him a better showing.
@@DemonDethchase yeah it's freaking sad and it's very weird because Tails is part of the main cast but now he just feels like a secondary character just like Knuckles Amy Shadow and Metal Sonic and it also feels like they just mainly focus on Sonic and Eggman and those two aren't even done right most of the time Sega is doing the Sonic franchise bad right now despite it being the same franchise that's keeping Sega alive
It's a damn shame Knuckles and Rouge barely interact anymore, and when they do, there's no chemistry there anymore. They used to have my favorite dynamic in the series.
hell, i even hate calling them ‘sonic’s friends’; half of them arent even friends with sonic, and shouldnt even be geographically near him. the world went from being ‘sonic in a world with other people’ to ‘other people being in sonic’s word’ and it’s tragic
Honestly I agree with you here. I feel like there are so many characters now you could actually have it so certain groups have their own games. Team Sonic plus Amy, Team Dark, Team Chaotix and then a series using Silver, Blaze, Cream and Cheese. Maybe bring back old characters to live in Silvers timeline 🤔
I mean Sonic does have a lot of friends from close ones like Tails, Knuckles, and Amy to other ones who are not as close but still friends like Blaze, Silver, and the Chaotix
@@iimaa Doesn't feel like the world in that game matches up with the one of the prior games. Kinda seems like they scrapped what they had and started over from that game on.
You did a great job explaning everyone!.. execpt rouge, she had a change of heart at the end of SA2, in Sonic Heroes, she bounds a team not just for herself, but for shadow, he wants to make shadow happy, she knows he died and she wants to give him another chance to have a better life, rouge in Sonic 06 has an amazing bound with team dark, rouge talks to omega, omega talks to shadow, shadow talks to rouge, they have the strongest bound i have ever seen in a sonic cast, even more than Team Sonic.
@@andreasmeelie1889 Think about it, if we exclude Sonic heroes, have you ever seen tails interact with Knuckles and viceversa?, they only do that in Sonic heroes and even then i think they only do it once, while Team Dark always talks to eachother in most games where they are all present, i still think Team Sonic's as a really good bond like the chaotix, but team Dark will always be my favorite,
@@kaexewires7531 It doesn't make sense for him to call out to Sonic when he knew he was "dead," other than a means of setting up the soulless imposter, the marketing gimmick, the bad tribute act to what Sonic used to be like and not only did it make Tails look bad, it also made Chaos look weak too, what with being taken out in one hit - I'll say it again ONE HIT - right away two established characters have to be nerfed so Classic can look good... god I hope he never comes back to rub shoulders with Sonic again as he should stay in his lane!
@@jordancromwell Trust me, I grew up with games like Sonic 2 and you would not believe the amount of times I heard other kids saying things like "TAILS SUCKS! HE'S SO ANNOYING AND USELESS! NOBODY LIKES HIM! THEY SHOULD JUST GET RID OF HIM!" All before the days of the internet, all before arguments like the "Too Many Characters" one; it just feels like there had always been fans who have this very negative attitude towards any playable character who isn't Sonic, which has sadly never gone away!
Hmmm, not sure. I feel like if Sonic Team wanted to take the feedback of the "Sonic and Friends" argument they'd just straight up not include any of the side characters. Who knows their method of thinking though, doesn't make sense a lot of the time.
I would agree that Sega is almost entirely at fault for the problems that modern Sonic games typically have and that includes the lack of playable characters, but I do think some biased internet critics who claim to be fans are at least partially at fault here for the whole “Sonic’s stupid friends” argument they love to throw around.
*this is why i fucking hate critics so much* NOW I CAN'T SKIP HALF THE PLATFORMING SECTIONS, YOU FUCKING DICKHEADS! ALL BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T LIKE ONE FUCKIN GAME? I'M GONNA FIDN THESE NIGGAS AND GIVE THEM A very stern talking to.
On the topic of knuckles. I wish we would dive into knuckles backstory more i also get that being on angel island would be boring but just to hear him mention the master Emerald once would make me happy.
I miss Team Chaotix, they got a snazzy re-designs, they were all given solid, individual personalities, they were unique and not rehashed old ideas, they were given a great flexible dynamic where they could stand in for comic relief but still be a serious trio, they were just so much fun! Team Chaotix probably had the biggest revamp out of any character/s in the Sonic universe.... and it all turned out to be for nothing. Espio is a darn ninja, why are we sleeping on this?
If we're going to see any character development for future games Sonic Team should be more lenient on the mandates and make them more important to the plot of the game
From what I’ve seen, the canonicity of Knuckle’s Chaotix has flip-flopped through the years. And with Sega aiming to make the Classic Era an alternate universe thing lately, it’s canonicity is flip-flopping even more.
@Sonic the Hedgehog Sorry, but that appears to be the case with Forces. And canonicity of Knuckle’s Chaotix is still somewhat uncertain with the random interviews I’ve seen.
Correction: The real Eggman who was locked up in his own fleet in Heroes actually called the Chaotix, Not Metal Sonic. Out of all the teams, Metal Sonic did not expect them to come after him, hence why he never copies any powers from them. Also Silver debuted in Sonic Rivals days before 06, making that game his first debut, not only in the canon but in the games in general.
How all the characters have been treated recently bothers me. But I feel I should say, as a woman, it's disappointing to see our main female characters reduced to flirting and fangirling. Both had defined personalities in SA1 and 2 beyond that. Rouge in 06 was almost boring and her flirting in games after is embarrassing. Yes she is a bit flirtatious but she can be serious and selfless when it's important. She is driven by getting what she wants and is clever about it, not obnoxious about it. She values friendships but isn't a goody goody. She has dimension and is also different enough from Amy to provide feminine variety. Amy is a younger girl and she's naïve but that makes her able to see good in others. She is passionate, determined, caring and selfless- not just for Sonic. She loves adventure and has the desire to be respected. She is immature and simplistic but still understands danger. Boom Amy has dimension but is too mature. Blaze might have personality under her stoicism but it's not utilized. I agree that all the characters in the same place at once hasn't helped define who they are. If so many are included in one game then it's best to separate them in story campaigns but I don't know if returning to that formula is good for the series. Or maybe it is if it's done right. What do I know?
They are also the reason why the the franchise went from being somewhat serious to unfunny comedy they kept bitchin about how it was silly how they were trying to be serious.
This is my opinion, but I believe that the last game to utilize the characters wisely was Sonic and the Black Knight. Even if they technically weren't the same characters in the main series, it worked for what the game was going for.
One of my favorite parts about Team Chaotix not many people talk about was how in Shadow The Hedgehog they were working to decipher one of Gerald's last messages to reveal the truth about Shadow and the Black Comet, which was crucial in the end, and yet nowadays they're literally just background fodder
As a Knuckles fan, I feel like they did him dirty recently. I feel like they didn't get what made him compelling in the first place. Though if I were to write why Knuckles wasn't guarding the Master Emerald, I would of made where Mighty and Ray, long time friends of Knuckles, would be guarding it for him during the time of Heroes. I mean, it's not like they are not using Mighty and Ray that effectively besides Mania so why not.
@@violetthebat8810 I honestly would like too see confidence writers like shiro Maekawa who wrote shadows backstory in sa2 we need him back in sick of this light hearted childish comedy
I wish critics didnt hate on other sonic characters because its caused sega to put them in the background to avoid critiscim and they ended up flanderising them. At least the sonic idw comics have fixed most of the characters and making them have important roles again.
Another interesting character discussion and analysis, personally I think a Team Chaotix focused game would be fun, an action-adventure with a fun story would do well I think since they have the most interesting team dynamic. Hell maybe throw in Mighty and Ray into Chaotix and finally give them modern game counterparts, I think Mighty was a member in the Archie comics so it would make sense.
Gotta love how the characters actually became useless AFTER people complained about them being useless. Honestly though, if the most we’re going to get out of these characters is “You got this Sonic!” whilst sitting in the background, I’d rather not have them at all. Some people wanted Blaze to be in Sonic Forces, but I’m thankful she wasn’t, one less good character to turn useless for the sake of making the three playable characters look good.
Man, I loved Espio, Knuckles, Shadow, Cream, Blaze, Vector, Charmy, Amy, Omega, Rouge, Tails, Cheese, and Sonic so much, but now they seem to be ghosts that just ever so slightly whisper their original character. I used to eagerly wait to see Shadow properly interact with each character from Chaotix, especially Espio. But, eh, not really feelin' it anymore. Amy was kind of butchered because, before the voice cast change, Amy seemed to be moving toward more and more of her own time on screen, and Knuckles used to be my favorite character, talking about the master emerald every once in a while on games(I believe). But now, the master emerald's shards were never found in SA2 I guess.
I always find it weird how they have Cream and Cheese hiding at home whenever something is happening now. Last time I checked she chose to go save her mum in the Advance games and then also chose to get into the fight again to find Chocola. Now they say she’s too much of a pacifist to do anything 😅
They're background characters because people were complaining that Sonic's friends are just annoying, doesn't serve any purpose to the story and people were also saying they play awkwardly so Sonic 06 is the last time we really play them.
When this video is about how the characters in the Sonic franchise has become background decoration but the third member of Team Dark doesn't get a mention: *Sad Omega Noises* Anyways, though, good video and I agree with most of your points. It's almost like some misguided fanservice directed at the fans for having a roster of characters in the story yet they don't do anything significant. I'd say Tails' character was done the most dirtiest. Its just something I don't think I would ever expect the games would ever do. Shadow definitely got messed up as a major character in that in the IDW books, he's being used as an asshole and it'll probably won't go away anytime soon but somehow Tails' treatment just frustrates me. He's the other character that Sonic acquaintes with the most and he's been in the games for so long, even when other major characters don't show up and yet it all means nothing largely because the majority of the games hardly try to make him more than just what he is despite his presence. I didn't mind his moments in Unleashed, even though it did painted him as being helpless (Despite providing Sonic & Chip with the Tornado for them to use) but Forces just seems to outright pretend Tails can't defend himself from Eggman's robots (Something he can do in many games prior to Forces) right from his very first scene. Here's to hoping Sega figures out how to deal with this issues because quite frankly I actually do like these characters just as I like any cast of characters in series I like. Marvel, DC, etc.
Tails suffers a lot because of the current writing. His arcs in SA1 and SA2 were basically completely disregarded, and as you said, he is now just the annoying nerdy side kick. I think Shadow was written really well in 06. He wasn't edgy, he wasn't a dick or antagonistic for no reason. He cares for team dark and he is happy when he sees that they care about him as well. His own game has the worst version of the character by far. In forces he was... Fine. Still a little bit like a Vegeta wannabe, which isn't his character at all. Knuckles was sort of dumb in generations and lost world, although he doesn't do much. The issue with the chaos emerald is still present, but at least in forces he wasn't a dumbass, although the leader position doesn't fit that much either.
I think people take that scene of Shadow stomping Infinite a little too hard. Aside from that, he was honestly kind of normal. Not the best, it was okay, but not terrible. Kirk's voice direction in Forces was pretty good too. But recently with TSR, the twitter takeover before TSR, and Mario & Sonic 2020, his voice went back to being raspy and well, edgy. But yeah, the gold standard should be SA2/Heroes/06
@@littlemissdeadly24papyrus36 I meant more about the games with the best mix of writing and voicing, though tbh I don't know much about Battle's dialogue and cutscenes. Battle is said to be one of the best Sonic stories, and the game was made when they cared about Shadow, so I can believe it
Knuckles in Forces thinks up a battle strategy by his own admission "in like a second" and gets hundreds of his soldiers slaughtered. The game treats this like a joke, as if Knuckles being actually retarded enough to be so careless with hundreds of lives during a war is supposed to be funny. Knuckles is awful in Forces as well. Him being a leader totally doesn't make any sense, that is like the opposite of Knuckles' strengths. It's almost as stupid as making Amy the techy computer guy- Oh wait... Also Shadow was just some psycho asshole and the whole story was his fault for no reason, he was completely bastardized still.
My issue with a lot of Sonic fans and critics, is they say there's too many Sonic characters... yet the biggest issue is that too many of them do NOTHING. It can seem like there's a lot of characters if most of them just stand around saying the same things as each other. People claim that Sonic's friends are overutilised, if anything it's the opposite. What did Espio do in Heroes? He helped Vector and Charmy rescue Eggman. What did Espio do in Forces? I have no idea, because he and most other Sonic characters in Forces just stand around saying the same stuff over and over. The only notable characters in Forces were: Sonic, Buddy, Infinite, Eggman, Tails, Shadow and Knuckles and that's only because half of them were badly flanderized. The rest of them did nothing of note (other than Amy saying Infinite was in Eggman's lab for a long time... which isn't even true).
tbh after what they did to tails, i'm glad a lot of sonics friends are missing if THAT'S what theu could become. Imagine cream asked "sonic help me!" , granted she's six but in advance she fought to get her mom and she could carry amy and big flawlessly. Cream is strong man!
Oh please in today's era of Meme's can you be damn sure that there would turn Cream into Omega both in lines and in actual usefulness (the latter for Forces)
@@rynobehnke8289 That's what I mean. Back when she was introduced she was right there with the rest, either to save her mom or chocola chao. Today she'd probably end up not even getting lines and just be someone sonic saves because "girl", like what amy was in sonic CD at the time.
@@WakoDoodle I mean I daub that as this what there did with her in Shadow's game and sega seams to believe that everything that was in Shadow's game must be pure evil. Also my joke mostly comes because to a less drastic extent is that what the mobile games with Dialogue did with her. (I thing the Sega Heroes Cream and Death Adder scene should be rather popular)
YES! Someone else who likes Silver! Simple answer, though: Sonic 06 made people sick of Sonic’s friends, for some reason. (I mean, you don’t see anyone complaining about the insane number of Mario characters, and there’s far more of them than Sonic.) So Sonic Team relegated them to the sidelines to appease critics. And from 2010 onward, the writing staff just made it worse. Because it was such a great idea to hire people who fully admitted they got their information about Sonic from Wikipedia.... In short, it shows the main problem with modern Sonic Team. They try so hard to appease the critics and every single individual facet of the fan base that it ends up pleasing no one and makes for story experiences that are even worse than 06 could ever hope to be. The biggest offense outside of Shadow is easily Metal Sonic. He was obsessed with beating Sonic in the older titles to the point where he’d full on betray Eggman in order to achieve his goal. But now he’s just generic robot no-193.
The side-characters (at least most of them) seem to have been made to be more than what they appear on the surface, but in recent games, their personalities have been made to fit exactly what they look like.
Personally , Sonic has the biggest nerf in term of attitude , he isn't supposed to be a stupid clown. He was just arrogant and determined to save the day :I
The other characters definitely haven’t been utilized much in the games lately. Even in a game like Generations and Forces they’re not utilized much. On the bright side they’ve been utilized properly in the IDW comics lately. The game crew should probably take notes from that series.
@@donathan2933 Although they can get a bit iffy with Shadow, mostly due to mandates. Most notable example of this is what he did in the Metal Virus arc. But he still has his moments.
@@kaylemathewcomendador6964 yes but IDW Shadow is getting better and I'm not going to bitch about the Metal Virus cuz that already happened and Shadow seems to have learned his lesson
This time I was waiting to finish the video before making a comment but.. "They are dupped by their client Metal Sonic." No, their client was Eggman, who was captured by Metal Sonic. For the Blaze Silver section. The events of Sonic 06 erase themselves so Blaze's sacrifice ultimately never happens, so yes she would be back in the Sol Dimension, where she would likely be doing her Princess duties or fighting with Dr. Eggman Nega. Silver going to the past to help Sonic is likely do to Silver's time is still a disaster despite, Iblis, and Ifrit, (and whatever else) being defeated. In Sonic Forces since Eggman conquered the planet (Not clear if its Mobius or Earth) it is likely still in control of some form of the Eggman Empire. You are right its weird that Sonic doesn't acknowledge Blaze in 06. The weird thing about 06 is that no one except Silver interacts with Blaze, making some fans, ludicrously, think that she is a figment of his imagination. Going back to the beginning of the video, you cry for Mighty and Ray (rightfully so), I'll cry for them and all the others who didn't make it into Sonic Heroes. Nack the Weasal/Fang the Sniper, Bean the Dynamite, Bark the Polar Bear, Heavy the Robot, Bomb, Tikal, and Chaos. I hope my ranting comments don't bother you. Sorry I'm doing them in nearly every video. Clearly I am very passionate about the franchise. I do like that you took the time to go over each of the main characters of the franchise in this video, and this video as a whole. Keep making these awesome videos.
@@EmperorKarino Retroactive continuity. 06 undoes its own events because Sonic, Shadow and Silver made sure Iblis and the events leading the princess to Sonic never happened.
@@EmperorKarino No because the other characters still remembered SA2. None of the characters from 06 remembered the events of 06 at the end, so the events undo themselves. Amnesia isn't the same as undoing the entire plot of a game.
@@freyaljones7368 Shadow’s character definitely needs some fixing. Also that racing short wasn’t too bad since everything was for the sake of comedy so I’m more forgiving to how the characters are portrayed.
@@walkermcmurrin7452 People keep calling him a heartless jerk in IDW; yet since he first appeared in the comic, his primary goal has been bring Eggman to justice for the War, and now the Metal Virus Saga. Also, just recently, when he was investigating a rich Chao-racing creep's penthouse apartment; Shadow found a cage, looked in and was disgusted at what he saw. He later give's said creep a surprise kick to the back of the head while Rouge, Amy, Cream, and Gemerl were trying to negotiate with him. Rouge thanks Shadow, as she was trying to trick the guy; but Shadow states that he didn't do it for her and points them to the cage, revealing that the creep locked any Chao that failed him in a race even once in there. What kind of "heartless jerk" wants to avenge wrongs, take preventative measures against villains, and utterly hates Chao abuse?! None that I know of. Really, the biggest thing wrong with IDW Shadow, if you ask me, is that he keeps suffering one humiliating defeat after another, even though he SHOULD be able to go toe to toe with Sonic!
The problem is that the developers can't resist milking a popular gimmick until it becomes a case of quantity over quality and fans get sick of it. The characters were a popular aspect of the Sonic franchise, but then with each game more and more were shoehorned into focus, with game often forcing you to switch between them, badly writing the story to revolve around them with Sonic and the other original characters barely an entity and so many of these being put in one game it often became a buggy mess. Sonic 2006 was where it had reached it's most inane level and fans complained profusely. Of course rather than acknowledge their own handling and over indulgence to be the fault here and better moderate the supporting cast in future games, they just assumed fans didn't like any characters besides Sonic and ditched them all.
It's not milking if only the playable characters are the ones actually being advertised. SEGA loses money by paying the voice actors of the characters that don't do much. The reason they do that is probably to keep the voice actors there even when their characters don't have important roles.
I think the problem is less about cramming everyone in (I mean just look at Lost World. It was literally just Sonic Tails Amy Knuckles and Eggman and his robot companions, Knuckles and Amy almost die off screen with Knuckles just being there and Amy being sappy "pls save me Sonic I'm dying", and even then Tails is still the brat engineer who isn't even allowed to have a gameplay contribution) and more about letting people other than Sonic and his best friend Sonic have a real personality. Oh, wait a sec. Nope, even Sonic isn't allowed to be angry or sad or anything any more; just crack bad jokes and sound like a middle-age man trying to be hip. I hope those rumors about pontack and who ever not writing the next Sonic game are true...
Regarding Sonic's friends, Silver's the one that I feel got shafted the most. That roundhouse kick scene from Sonic 06 and the infamous "It's No Use!" line turned him into a meme, as well as a punching bag for Shadow. It's true that Silver can be a bit of a dork, but that part of his character shouldn't be overexaggerated. Also, Silver's the only male hedgehog that doesn't have his own game. I can understand why he doesn't have a spinoff, but anything is possible with the right amount of effort. There's something else I want to say about Silver and his relationship with Blaze. A lot of fans seem to interpret their bond as if they're a couple, but they don't even act like one at all. There's no evidence of them having romantic feelings towards each other, let alone hints or signs of that stuff. The bond they actually have is more "familial" (similar to Shadow and Maria/Jet and Wave). Blaze views Silver like a younger brother. It makes sense because Blaze was the mature, responsible one during 06, while Silver was the insecure, naive one (Blaze as the mentor, Silver as the apprentice). Having those two be lovers just doesn't feel right. In terms of romance, Silver has a better chance with Sonic. Out of every other character in the series that's connected to Silver, Sonic is pretty close. Silver is the dorky, humble teen that's inexperienced, while Sonic's the cocky, confident teen filled with experience. The dynamic that Silver and Sonic have is like the average, unpopular student (Silver) who has a secret admiration for the most popular and coolest guy in school (Sonic). That type of love is pretty relatable. It's pretty common for a lover to tease their partner. The way Sonic teases Silver in TSR isn't too different from the way Rouge teases Knuckles. Silver is a strong believer of hope, and having him fall in love with a strong hero who symbolizes hope is perfectly in-character for Silver. P.S. There's a cutscene in Forces where Silver nearly gets killed by Infinite, but Sonic shows up to save him at the brink of his demise. If you look closely, Sonic gives a gesture with his hand telling Silver that he'll deal with the jackal. That gesture often indicates someone trying to protect the one they love. Also, Silver spends more time hanging out with Sonic than he does with Blaze in her own dimension. It's not just Silver's that underappreciated, his bond with the Blue Blur is also underappreciated.
They need to get the team writing the Sonic IDW comics in the game stories. They're already: 1. Fleshing out pre-established characters 2. Adding and fleshing out new, interesting characters 3. Everyone is important to the story.
Thanks so much i been wanting to know the answer of why they went to the background thanks for doing a video on it and I noticed they way you say hedgehog are you from Chicago
Amy Rose has been my favorite ever since I played Sonic Adventure so that will probably always be my favorite game, although I really like the sequel and Sonic heroes.
Don't forget about Sonic himself. I hate how he is too cocky and a showoff these days making jokes left and right. Back then he was just a Hedgehog that was very Nobel, Heroic and little Cocky without going Overboard. Really sad how the Sonic movie got his character right yet Sonic Forces got his character wrong.
Also can we talk about how Sega needs to stop making new characters until they can get their shit together with what they already have?? It got me so mad that they introduced infinite to Forces, but still couldn't manage to get a proper hold on everyone else
Shadow has probably the biggest nerf, even sega doesn't know what to do with him. It feels two sides of the company want him a certain way. One side wants him to be an interesting character while the other half wants him to be a "haha funny edge lord"
Personally, the games need to take more of a IDW direction when it comes to the characters & the overall stories. These stories do the characters soo much more justice than the games have been doing. Like explaining why Blaze didn't appear in Forces, why the Wisps returned for Forces. Having way more expressive characters, darker & even deeper emotional moments that the games oftentimes have a harder time accomplishing (at least outside CGI cutscenes). All paired with some pretty great humor. Albeit, Shadow's personality there is questionably off, but everyone else, fantastic! Also there's a Sonic TV show coming in 2022, even more of an opportunity to give these characters proper representation. And apparently Team Sonic Racing is a thing, so I guess that counts as including them more in the story. Albeit a little confusing as to why Zavok is working for Eggman, when both Lost World & the IDW comics clearly indicate that he hates Eggman. Either way, I'm really hoping that after 3-4 years Sega can deliver a Sonic (30th Anniversary) game that can meet our expectations & not overload it with characters. As long as Blaze, Silver & Shadow have a focus & each character fits into the story that makes sense, while respecting their personalities (like the IDW comics do). I'd be happy with it.
The worst part about the issue with never seeing Knuckles with the Master Emerald is what happened in the prequal comics to Forces As I recall, Knuckles is guarding it before Silver shows up, having found a way to the past after the future gets screwed up (again...). They fight an illusion of Chaos before taking off, just abandoning the emerald. So not only has Sonic Team completely forgotten about the Master Emerald, when they remembered, they made Knuckles a terrible guardian
Very well made video. I like how you explained the whole Sonic and Blaze timeline thing. It makes sense enough to me and I don’t know if even Sonic Team is sure. Hopefully the Sonic Encyclo-speedia releasing next year will handle this and other continuity questions.
Sonic and Tails R is fantastic. I would be totally down for Sega picking up when its done and making it into a fully animated show, as I'd sooner take that over another season of Boom any day. Also really hope the next game can get back to the tone the radio drama has, because thats how things used to be, before Free Riders and Colours happened at the start of the 2010s.
@@DemonDethchase "I'd sooner take that over another season of Boom any day" another season of boom, unlike you, would make me happy. also what's sonic & tails r
@@theceoofceo5033 An ongoing 10 part unofficial radio drama series that's more in line with the tone the series had back in the 2000s, when it wasn't afraid to take itself seriously. As well as being a story centered around the Chaos Emeralds (remember when they were a thing?) It features the voices of Mike Pollock and Ryan Drummond as well as a few other surprises... Part 1 ruclips.net/video/siOnf9lsCho/видео.html Part 2 ruclips.net/video/j2dlVccIsYQ/видео.html Part 3 ruclips.net/video/Dly2ekaeTdA/видео.html Part 4 ruclips.net/video/ZjW0-6Out4g/видео.html
The IDW comics do the characters a lot of justice, as well as Cream just,,,,, existing. We also get two new characters, Tangle and Whisper! I’d recommend them if you’d like to see a serious story with well written characters.
I'm not sure if Shadow's IDW treatment was that great, but... I'll admit I liked the issue where he acknowledged he was acting like an arrogant fucker after the Metal Virus was gone
It's been over 10 years... I don't understand why the outsourced Boom of all things could have Amy, Knux and Miles playable again in 3D. But meanwhile in the next mainline game, have Classic (Sonic). Again. Seriously besides being a marketing gimmick, he's also nothing but a bad tribute act when you consider what Sonic's character was actually like back in the early days, as he barely has enough personality to fill a sandwich. I really hope that outside another 2D title we never see Classic again rubbing shoulders with Sonic, as no doubt Tails will be stuck with the job of trying to get him over again.
I think it would be beneficial if you had more examples to back up your points. Some of your points came off as generalizations to me. For instance, "Amy is now just Sonic's #1 fan." This was more so this case from her debut all the way until Lost World and Forces. That side of Amy was toned down for her to be ""involved"" (using that word very loosely) with the plot more. In Lost World, she was more concerned with the mission to save the animals, and in Forces, she was more concerned with helping the resistance (this is further elaborated in the IDW comics). To say that Rouge has become nothing but a flirt is another thing I disagree with. It undermines the character development she has, especially with Shadow and Omega. Additionally, that aspect of her was present since Adventure 2 and stuck ever since. Nonetheless, great video.
Amy actually had other traits besides her crush on Sonic, more specifically her compasion, love for excitement, interest on mystical things, her ridiculous strength and so on. And that specific trait her detractors always point on was never a problem, it's how it was used because she can still love Sonic and contribute on the story, examples being SA1, 2, Heroes (despite you know what), 06 and the IDW comics.
In sa2 when knuckles put the master emerald in his ... pocket?, did he ever put it back? Maybe that’s why he isn’t at the shrine just carries it everywhere
The comics have it worse than the games because Iizuka keeps on making up insane mandates, like Team Dark never having been a thing and currency not existing in Sonic's World, despite Vector's whole character revolving around money.
Sega keep hinting adventure stuff, if they're working on an adventure style game they'll have to have more playable characters than just sonic and maybe even more importantly a Chao garden I just hope that's what's happening
To me the biggest Sonic characters that got nerfed was Tails, Knuckles and Amy. I hate how Tails was in Sonic Forces where He was a wimp, Knuckles is a dumba*s and Amy is a Simp. I feel that Tails, Knuckles and Amy should be part of Sonic and Eggman (aswell as Orbot and Cubot to an extent) because They have been around since the Sega Genesis/Sega Mega Drive days (Sega CD/Sega Mega CD for Amy) Tails is Sonic Sidekick and Best Friend and will help Sonic whenever Sonic needs it, while Tails is a tech nerd He'll also use His tech to aid Sonic, Knuckles is Sonic Friendly Rival who's serous but yet gullible like give Him a reason why He's helping Sonic and Tails like have the Master Emerald be involved and use His strength to aid Sonic and Tails, Amy should be less of a Simp (or Dumba*s in destress) and keep Her crush on Sonic a secret, show it but when ever someone confronts Her crush on Sonic she should just blow it off and just be blow it off saying that Their just Friends and have a hard time confessing Her love for Sonic (kinda like Nagisa from Pretty Cure), also Amy should keep Her optimism and tell Sonic that He should not give up that He can do it whenever Sonic feels down. I feel the IDW Comics nailed Tails, Knuckles and Amy's characters perfectly Tails has shown His courage in issue 21, Amy has shown that She's a strong character and Knuckles know His duty on protecting the Master Emerald (watch GamerGuyd's video on how the IDW Comics destoryed the Characters He did a better job on how IDW and Ian Flynn broke down the characters and fixed them). As for characters like Shadow, Rouge, Omega, Cream and Cheese, Vector, Espio, Charmy, Metal Sonic, Silver and Blaze, while I hate how Shadow is portrayed this day in this age flanderizing the character I feel like They should be side characters like They should appear in some games like have Sonic Frontiers focus on Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Eggman, Orbot and Cubot (mostly because Orbot and Cubot reminds Me of Scratch and Grounder from AOSTH), also what happened to Gemerl? I think Gemerl is a good asset to team rose and just have Big be the where's waldo of the Sonic series. I hope that Ian Flynn can fix these characters in Sonic Frontiers
The meta era of sonic has killed any chance of the Sonic video game franchise getting better for me. SEGA has shown time and time again that they don't actually care about doing better with the games or even refining what didn't work in previous games as long as the franchise makes a truckload of cash for them, and if they don't care then why should i? You could say that the only good thing about Sonic nowadays are the comics and the movie, and to that I say, that's a step in the right direction. But at the end of the day, those are the exception, not the norm.
@@chill439 It's SEGA I've lost hope in, not Sonic the Hedgehog. SEGA half asses everything Sonic nowadays! This is the same company that allowed Sonic 06, Sonic Boom Rise of Lyric, and Sonic Forces to be released in the state they were in, further tarnishing the reputation of the franchise.
I wish that the other characters got the spotlight again and maybe some of them be playable again! Silver, Blaze and Shadow are my favorite sonic characters.
To answer the Blaze questions; Sonic 06 isn't canon so that's the reason Sonic doesn't recognize Blaze before and after that game. And as for Sonic Forces, It's explained in the IDW comics that Blaze was going to Sonic's dimension from her own after the Sol Emeralds directed her there, though she was "seven months late" as stated by Sonic. I haven't finished the series but I'm sure Blaze has a purpose for being there
I have to agree. If only there was a continuity that can be perfectly translated into an open-world game format where even the lesser known, obscure characters gets some time to shine... *Cough, Archie Sonic, Cough*
Agreed whole-heartedly with everything presented in this video. As a Sonic fanfictionist, this is something I work *very hard* to break, always trying to make Sonic's allies much more integral to the core events of the story. Particularly in the earlier Sonic tales (especially Archie comics), I always felt like Sonic's friends played a pivotal role in his character development. Seeing that fall by the wayside is part of why I feel like Sonic as a character has stagnated periodically over the years.
Every sonic character since 2010 in a nutshell: Sonic: hero jock. Tails: weak. Kunckles: dumb. Amy: girl. Shadow: edgy . Rouge: rule 34 (for the furries). Omega: just there. Cream/cheese: gone. Eggman: dr. Doof 2.0 (diet and no one likes diet soda). Chatiox: just there. Sliver: just there. Blaze: gone. Babylon Rogue: gone. Heavy and bomb: gone. Honey: gone. Team hooligan: gone Meatl sonic: gone This is how the sonic characters are now tries/remember when they were good and complex in a balance away and not dark n edgy away like all the rest of the game mascot characters.
At least dr Doofenshmirtz goes through a character arc and is interesting. Doctor Eggman is supposed to be a threatening villan, while doof is supposed to be comedic.
@@gustavogutierrez6568 I'm not disrespecting doof his a good character I'm just saying I don't want him to be a copy of him I want eggman to be his own character and not a diet bad copy of doof. (What miss the good doof is you know).
I like The Sonic Series and my favorite Sonic Videogames are Shadow the Hedgehog Sonic 06 Sonic Unleashed and Sonic and The Black Knight and I hate how useless Sonic's friends have become especially Tails it's like all their Character development is all for nothing. Even Sonic is kinda useless Normally I don't mind my favorite characters being OOC but the way I want them OOC is them having emotional trauma and having PTSD from their previous adventures and having complaints about some of the things that happened I also want Tails complaining about how useless he is and Sonic tried to help him by telling him he's not that useless but he doesn't believe him and Tails' anger keeps getting the best of him and all of them are dealing with nightmares they're having. My favorite Sonic characters are Shadow Sonic Silver Tails and Amy.
So many sonic characters are just background characters to the point most of them are forgotten. Bark, bean, fang, mighty, and ray became less recognizable again.
I hate it when critics bring up the “Sonic’s stupid friends” argument and thanks to them, we haven’t gotten to play as them in years.
Same.
Yet mario has "stupid friends" but they are surprisingly not hated.
@@sonicmanic2556 Exactly!!! 🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️
Classic Fanboys tend to be the bane of varity in Sonic Games.
Don't forget people outside the shitty critics also ruined the characters during when we didn't get to play as them ever again.
"Can't ruin a character if it doesn't exist anymore"
-Sonic Team about Cream the Rabbit and Cheese Chao
LOL big brain time
"So who was the flying character for Team Rose?"
"It was Omochao, right?"
"Seems fine to me"
"And Vector hangs out with Blaze and Silver, right?"
"Not like we got anyone better to go with them"
"Not even that little rabbit?"
"Shhhhhh, she doesn't exist any more."
@@catcocomics1601 The weirdest thing about this is that they gave us teams in Sonic heroes and then have done everything they can to not bring certain teams back together. The only teams that have stayed the same are team sonic and team dark 😅 Actually no, the weirdest thing is that as much as I love Big coming back they still didn’t think Cream should too and she used to be one of the main characters 😅
@@ROT695 understand the current Sonic Team writers care nothing for the actual Sonic franchise and are only really good at writing smooth brain saturday morning cartoons.
I'm honestly willing to bet the reason Cream just doesn't exist anymore is there are just no cringe memes about her. There is no "OH NO" or "Ow the Edge" for her, she's just a good kid who looks up to everyone and there for she "isn't funny".
@@catcocomics1601 Probably yeah. I always liked what she brought to the group though. Whenever she was around she’d bring out a different side to everyone that you wouldn’t usually see. Sonic would show a more calm and caring side whilst Amy actually had someone to talk normally with. In a way she kind of grounded them a little. I guess I have a strong opinion on her not being around because I got into Sonic when she was part of the group. Advance 3 was the game I would play all the time and also used to watch Sonic X 😅
Tails was probably the saddest change for me. Seeing him go from a strong and independent hero to essentially a coward who needs constant help from Sonic was just sorta heart-breaking. His character development in SA1 and 2 was really inspiring, I almost looked up to him
edit: HOLY SHIT YOU ALL WROTE A BIBLE HERE LMAOOO
There's nothing wrong with Tails being scared. After all he was scared before setting off to stop Eggman in SA1, but despite his fear, he dug deep to find hope and courage and put them into practice to save the day. Now if they just had happen in Forces rather than having stuck trying to put over a bad tribute act masquerading as Sonic. Seriously, we could have easily dropped Classic and nothing would have been lost, what with Sonic and the OC having 2D sections of their own. And with having Tails actually playable could have allowed a chance for the story to be expanded upon. Though I also kinda feel like the OC is just as guilty for stealing Tails' spotlight as well, because when Sonic was being sucked into Null Space, if it was anything before 2010, Tails would have totally leapt into action to help Sonic, but sorry kid, you're not playable so that's the OC's job. I hate that thing just as much as I hate Classic in Forces, because if they weren't there we could have gotten the other characters playable again and it's been over 10 years now since that happened in a mainline 3D title!
Also for Tails in Forces I have my own thing which basically during the fight against Infinite rather rather than having his tablet thing he'd be racing to met Sonic with the Chaos Emeralds. To help turn the tide in the war against Eggman. But by the time he gets there he finds Sonic fighting Infinite and its not going well. Filled with a surge of emotion, seeing Sonic in such a bad way, Tails lets out a scream and goes Super (god, could this be anymore Dragonball like?). He puts up a good fight against Infinite but it's not enough as he burns himself out unable to beat him. Sonic would have gotten enough time to catch his breath to save Tails before Knuckles swings by to get the fox cub out of there on Sonic's instructions. Word later reaches the resistance that Sonic dead and Tails loses it.
He runs away and spends the next six months wallowing in despair until one day while looking for a place to hide during a thunderstorm he finds himself in his old workshop, and inside it the original Tornado, Sonic's plane. Despite being depressed for the past six months, the sight of the bi-plane puts a spark back in Tails' eyes as he tries to get the plane back in the air, but due to his mental state not being the greatest he can't do it. He looks at the set of keys Sonic gave him for the plane and after remembering what happened to Sonic he breaks down into tears feeling guilty that he couldn't save him.
Chaos then appears which scares the young fox cub, much like in Forces, and when he attacks Tails the fox cub makes no real effort to defend himself because his confidence has been shattered and he feels he can't fight anymore. After being smacked about by Chaos for abit, he sees him turn his attention to the Tornado and begin attacking it. Tails' eyes widen in horror not wanting to see the plane, his only connection he has left to Sonic be destroyed, and that forces him to get back to his feet and fight. After driving Chaos away he feels a weight's been lift and manages to get the Tornado running again so he can get back home to the resistance base and help the others.
The ofcourse word would get that Sonic is alive and Tails go storm the prison to save him, after doing a few other missions while building his confidence back up.
Also as well in the time leading up to that, with fighting the war against Eggman, in Forces, it wouldn't have been going so well and through running and hiding for a while it'd start to take it's toll on Tails' metal state. Hence why he's freezing up while facing regular Egg Pawns he would have smashed no problem, without breaking a sweat. But after Infinite "kills" Sonic, it proves to be the straw that broke the camel's back, hence why he's not as vengeful as he was in SA2, after seeing Eggman "kill" Sonic, by ejecting him out into space in that pod.
I really hope he gets a chance to shine again and remind everyone he's the little fox who could. Rather than being reduced to enhancement talent to make Classic (Sonic) look strong again, or any other character they try to bring in and will probably never be seen again, like the OC of Forces.
@@DemonDethchase I agree. Tails being scared or worried is no problem. HES A KID! i dont want tails to be a badass. But after Sa1 and 2 tails should have atleast fought chao off. he did in SA1. Tails had the best devolopment besides shadow in the whole francise, but sega threw it all away. If tails doesnt make a comback in the next future game then Tails will dig a hole too deep for him to get out of. I miss the old tails!
@@awesomezebroz_2949 as I said, I blame the OC and Classic, as Sega must have been. "Sorry kid, but we can't have you (Tails) fight like you used to. Just look cute and helpless, so make Classic and the OC can look good." I feel Tails in Forces is like how WWE treat alot of their talent these days.
Classic (Sonic) the returning Legend brought in for a one off match, to try and drum up interest in the event. Where they're made to look strong, and to be put over Wrestlemania, never to be seen again - until next year - at the expense of someone (Tails) who is there day in and day out, regardless of the damage it could do to their character.
And the Player Avatar is the Celebrity brought in for a one off match, to try and drum up interest in the event. Where they're made to look strong, and to be put over Wrestlemania, never to be seen again at the expense of someone (Tails) who is there day in and day out regardless of the damage it could do to their character.
Tails isn't some enhancement talent to put over other characters! He's the little fox who could! At least that Sonic And Tails R is giving him a better showing.
@@DemonDethchase yeah it's freaking sad and it's very weird because Tails is part of the main cast but now he just feels like a secondary character just like Knuckles Amy Shadow and Metal Sonic and it also feels like they just mainly focus on Sonic and Eggman and those two aren't even done right most of the time Sega is doing the Sonic franchise bad right now despite it being the same franchise that's keeping Sega alive
It's a damn shame Knuckles and Rouge barely interact anymore, and when they do, there's no chemistry there anymore. They used to have my favorite dynamic in the series.
True.
Yeah, like theyvhate each other, but they work together well. And i love their banter! Especially in adventure 2 when knuckles saves rouge.
@@thedman1754 it's a complicated relationship they have to say the least.
@@dougwalker8068 Yeah, i guess you could say that. I cant beleive you understand their dynamic better than sega themselves.
Sonic X did this relationship very well
Honestly, seeing the decline of Knuckles' is heartbreaking. He was such an amazing character in Sonic Adventure.
also sonic x
@@kwamedamuah1838 Knuckles is ok in Sonic X. Maybe in the Adventure arc and season one because in Metarex arc he's annoying.
@@elmemearana is Japanese Sonic X a joke to you?
@@ChuckE.CheesesIllinois in both versions he's still a hothead and a bit douchebag, so...
now with sonic movie 2, knuckles is becoming badass again
hell, i even hate calling them ‘sonic’s friends’; half of them arent even friends with sonic, and shouldnt even be geographically near him.
the world went from being ‘sonic in a world with other people’ to ‘other people being in sonic’s word’ and it’s tragic
I'm pretty sure all of these characters mentioned in this video are friends of Sonic
Honestly I agree with you here. I feel like there are so many characters now you could actually have it so certain groups have their own games. Team Sonic plus Amy, Team Dark, Team Chaotix and then a series using Silver, Blaze, Cream and Cheese. Maybe bring back old characters to live in Silvers timeline 🤔
I mean Sonic does have a lot of friends from close ones like Tails, Knuckles, and Amy to other ones who are not as close but still friends like Blaze, Silver, and the Chaotix
@@justyouraveragegamer4033 That is correct
@@tommyhamlin4611 so I get why people like to consider everybody to be Sonic's friend
It's like SEGA forgot the entire lore of the Sonic world after 06.
I thought seeing GUN in 06 was really cool
what about unleashed?
@@iimaa Doesn't feel like the world in that game matches up with the one of the prior games. Kinda seems like they scrapped what they had and started over from that game on.
Unleashed didn't take in consideration the former lore as fancy as that game was
Or they just don't care anymore.
You did a great job explaning everyone!.. execpt rouge, she had a change of heart at the end of SA2, in Sonic Heroes, she bounds a team not just for herself, but for shadow, he wants to make shadow happy, she knows he died and she wants to give him another chance to have a better life, rouge in Sonic 06 has an amazing bound with team dark, rouge talks to omega, omega talks to shadow, shadow talks to rouge, they have the strongest bound i have ever seen in a sonic cast, even more than Team Sonic.
I agree with everything that you are saying but how is the bond stronger than Team Sonic’s? They always were equal to me and others.
@@andreasmeelie1889 Think about it, if we exclude Sonic heroes, have you ever seen tails interact with Knuckles and viceversa?, they only do that in Sonic heroes and even then i think they only do it once, while Team Dark always talks to eachother in most games where they are all present, i still think Team Sonic's as a really good bond like the chaotix, but team Dark will always be my favorite,
Team Dark has huge found family energy and Rouge cares about Shadow and Omega alot!
BuT tHeY aReN’t FrIeNdS!!!
@@Puyopuyotsu SEGA- 2020
Yeah, Sonic's friends are kinda just there, I really wish Sega would actually do something with them, like they did in the 1990s and 2000s.
Sega was told by dumbass critics to get rid off Sonic's stupid friends. Back in the 2000s Sonic overall was just in a better place
@@donathan2933 back in 2000s sega listened too much to dumb ign that's why they made many changes in sonic
@@arturocastroverde3349 that explains why sonic has been shittey in 2010
Tails in Forces gives me pain
when he started saying "SONIC! HELP ME!"
i felt my heart crack...
@@kaexewires7531 i was hurting when he said that. Not because he was scared, but because all of the devolopment he had made had been gone.
@@kaexewires7531 It doesn't make sense for him to call out to Sonic when he knew he was "dead," other than a means of setting up the soulless imposter, the marketing gimmick, the bad tribute act to what Sonic used to be like and not only did it make Tails look bad, it also made Chaos look weak too, what with being taken out in one hit - I'll say it again ONE HIT - right away two established characters have to be nerfed so Classic can look good... god I hope he never comes back to rub shoulders with Sonic again as he should stay in his lane!
It was since Unleashed, in the end of the idw' metal virus arc and no one gives a shit, only about Forces.
I know right. So annoying and painful to see him being portrayed like that. Unlike the old games.
I think it mostly is due to the 'stupid friends' argument of the earlier 2010s but lets see if you reiterate that
Since the early 2010's? The "Sonic's Stupid Friends" argument has been around practically ever since Tails was introduced!
That whole argument is just bullshit. The people who use said argument think that they know what Sonic should be, but they don't.
@@bowmaj8666 No it was mainly after 06. Bias internet critics who suck ass at games and are clearly not a fan of the series.
@@jordancromwell Trust me, I grew up with games like Sonic 2 and you would not believe the amount of times I heard other kids saying things like "TAILS SUCKS! HE'S SO ANNOYING AND USELESS! NOBODY LIKES HIM! THEY SHOULD JUST GET RID OF HIM!" All before the days of the internet, all before arguments like the "Too Many Characters" one; it just feels like there had always been fans who have this very negative attitude towards any playable character who isn't Sonic, which has sadly never gone away!
Hmmm, not sure. I feel like if Sonic Team wanted to take the feedback of the "Sonic and Friends" argument they'd just straight up not include any of the side characters. Who knows their method of thinking though, doesn't make sense a lot of the time.
I would agree that Sega is almost entirely at fault for the problems that modern Sonic games typically have and that includes the lack of playable characters, but I do think some biased internet critics who claim to be fans are at least partially at fault here for the whole “Sonic’s stupid friends” argument they love to throw around.
You can blame the critics for that. After Sonic 06, they convinced Sega to get rid of Sonic's "stupid useless friends" so they did
I mean I could also blame 06 for that. That game had way too many play styles. They should of just kept the amount to a minimum
@@slayerstarx7109 I appreciate it. It adds more diversity to the game. If 06 had better mechanics and gameplay styles it woulda been better
*this is why i fucking hate critics so much* NOW I CAN'T SKIP HALF THE PLATFORMING SECTIONS, YOU FUCKING DICKHEADS! ALL BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T LIKE ONE FUCKIN GAME? I'M GONNA FIDN THESE NIGGAS AND GIVE THEM A very stern talking to.
On the topic of knuckles. I wish we would dive into knuckles backstory more i also get that being on angel island would be boring but just to hear him mention the master Emerald once would make me happy.
I miss Team Chaotix, they got a snazzy re-designs, they were all given solid, individual personalities, they were unique and not rehashed old ideas, they were given a great flexible dynamic where they could stand in for comic relief but still be a serious trio, they were just so much fun!
Team Chaotix probably had the biggest revamp out of any character/s in the Sonic universe.... and it all turned out to be for nothing.
Espio is a darn ninja, why are we sleeping on this?
If we're going to see any character development for future games Sonic Team should be more lenient on the mandates and make them more important to the plot of the game
I like how you didnt even mention knuckles' chaotix when talking about team chaotix
Basically because it was retconned in Sonic Heroes.
@@chaomix knuckles chaotix happens in a different universe from sonic heroes so it isnt exactly retconned
From what I’ve seen, the canonicity of Knuckle’s Chaotix has flip-flopped through the years. And with Sega aiming to make the Classic Era an alternate universe thing lately, it’s canonicity is flip-flopping even more.
@Sonic the Hedgehog Sorry, but that appears to be the case with Forces. And canonicity of Knuckle’s Chaotix is still somewhat uncertain with the random interviews I’ve seen.
@@kaylemathewcomendador6964
You mean the game where Classic Sonic came from Sonic Mania?
Correction: The real Eggman who was locked up in his own fleet in Heroes actually called the Chaotix, Not Metal Sonic. Out of all the teams, Metal Sonic did not expect them to come after him, hence why he never copies any powers from them.
Also Silver debuted in Sonic Rivals days before 06, making that game his first debut, not only in the canon but in the games in general.
Rivals was November 16th, 06 was November 14th.
Tbh, 06 was deleted sooo…
How all the characters have been treated recently bothers me. But I feel I should say, as a woman, it's disappointing to see our main female characters reduced to flirting and fangirling. Both had defined personalities in SA1 and 2 beyond that. Rouge in 06 was almost boring and her flirting in games after is embarrassing. Yes she is a bit flirtatious but she can be serious and selfless when it's important. She is driven by getting what she wants and is clever about it, not obnoxious about it. She values friendships but isn't a goody goody. She has dimension and is also different enough from Amy to provide feminine variety.
Amy is a younger girl and she's naïve but that makes her able to see good in others. She is passionate, determined, caring and selfless- not just for Sonic. She loves adventure and has the desire to be respected. She is immature and simplistic but still understands danger. Boom Amy has dimension but is too mature.
Blaze might have personality under her stoicism but it's not utilized. I agree that all the characters in the same place at once hasn't helped define who they are. If so many are included in one game then it's best to separate them in story campaigns but I don't know if returning to that formula is good for the series. Or maybe it is if it's done right. What do I know?
Christ
Because in 2006-2014 Critics said his friends were trash
Wow they were the ones who ruined them
hey critics you know what is trash look in a mirror
They are also the reason why the the franchise went from being somewhat serious to unfunny comedy they kept bitchin about how it was silly how they were trying to be serious.
This is my opinion, but I believe that the last game to utilize the characters wisely was Sonic and the Black Knight. Even if they technically weren't the same characters in the main series, it worked for what the game was going for.
You have my agreement.
Agreed.
Basically, yeah.
Tbh both Black Knight and Secret Rings had cool concepts for storytelling in the Sonic universe
One of my favorite parts about Team Chaotix not many people talk about was how in Shadow The Hedgehog they were working to decipher one of Gerald's last messages to reveal the truth about Shadow and the Black Comet, which was crucial in the end, and yet nowadays they're literally just background fodder
As a Knuckles fan, I feel like they did him dirty recently. I feel like they didn't get what made him compelling in the first place. Though if I were to write why Knuckles wasn't guarding the Master Emerald, I would of made where Mighty and Ray, long time friends of Knuckles, would be guarding it for him during the time of Heroes. I mean, it's not like they are not using Mighty and Ray that effectively besides Mania so why not.
All of the characters have been flanderized ever since 2010
IKR?? 😭😭😭💔💔💔
@@violetthebat8810 I honestly would like too see confidence writers like shiro Maekawa who wrote shadows backstory in sa2 we need him back in sick of this light hearted childish comedy
Basically ever since sonic colors.
I LOVE SONIC SO MUCH
@@maude7420 sonic was better when he was T rated
I wish critics didnt hate on other sonic characters because its caused sega to put them in the background to avoid critiscim and they ended up flanderising them. At least the sonic idw comics have fixed most of the characters and making them have important roles again.
Another interesting character discussion and analysis, personally I think a Team Chaotix focused game would be fun, an action-adventure with a fun story would do well I think since they have the most interesting team dynamic. Hell maybe throw in Mighty and Ray into Chaotix and finally give them modern game counterparts, I think Mighty was a member in the Archie comics so it would make sense.
Gotta love how the characters actually became useless AFTER people complained about them being useless.
Honestly though, if the most we’re going to get out of these characters is “You got this Sonic!” whilst sitting in the background, I’d rather not have them at all. Some people wanted Blaze to be in Sonic Forces, but I’m thankful she wasn’t, one less good character to turn useless for the sake of making the three playable characters look good.
People: sonic and friends are useless
Sega: okay then there is no point of having the-
People: WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING YOU IDIOT?1?1?
AND LETTING US ACTUALLY PLAY AS THEM
Man, I loved Espio, Knuckles, Shadow, Cream, Blaze, Vector, Charmy, Amy, Omega, Rouge, Tails, Cheese, and Sonic so much, but now they seem to be ghosts that just ever so slightly whisper their original character. I used to eagerly wait to see Shadow properly interact with each character from Chaotix, especially Espio. But, eh, not really feelin' it anymore. Amy was kind of butchered because, before the voice cast change, Amy seemed to be moving toward more and more of her own time on screen, and Knuckles used to be my favorite character, talking about the master emerald every once in a while on games(I believe). But now, the master emerald's shards were never found in SA2 I guess.
I always find it weird how they have Cream and Cheese hiding at home whenever something is happening now. Last time I checked she chose to go save her mum in the Advance games and then also chose to get into the fight again to find Chocola. Now they say she’s too much of a pacifist to do anything 😅
@@ROT695 she should be the opposite honestly. she should be the most violent character based on sonic advance 2. give cream a gun you cowards
the fact that he added "and Sonic" to it.
"You don't have to be useless. A death alone would make you millions in a Sonic.EXE fangame."
They're background characters because people were complaining that Sonic's friends are just annoying, doesn't serve any purpose to the story and people were also saying they play awkwardly so Sonic 06 is the last time we really play them.
*i would like to know who they are.*
@@seashellguy9416 Blame the game critics who constantly have classed Sonic’s friends as annoying.
When this video is about how the characters in the Sonic franchise has become background decoration but the third member of Team Dark doesn't get a mention:
*Sad Omega Noises*
Anyways, though, good video and I agree with most of your points. It's almost like some misguided fanservice directed at the fans for having a roster of characters in the story yet they don't do anything significant.
I'd say Tails' character was done the most dirtiest. Its just something I don't think I would ever expect the games would ever do. Shadow definitely got messed up as a major character in that in the IDW books, he's being used as an asshole and it'll probably won't go away anytime soon but somehow Tails' treatment just frustrates me. He's the other character that Sonic acquaintes with the most and he's been in the games for so long, even when other major characters don't show up and yet it all means nothing largely because the majority of the games hardly try to make him more than just what he is despite his presence. I didn't mind his moments in Unleashed, even though it did painted him as being helpless (Despite providing Sonic & Chip with the Tornado for them to use) but Forces just seems to outright pretend Tails can't defend himself from Eggman's robots (Something he can do in many games prior to Forces) right from his very first scene.
Here's to hoping Sega figures out how to deal with this issues because quite frankly I actually do like these characters just as I like any cast of characters in series I like. Marvel, DC, etc.
Tails suffers a lot because of the current writing. His arcs in SA1 and SA2 were basically completely disregarded, and as you said, he is now just the annoying nerdy side kick.
I think Shadow was written really well in 06. He wasn't edgy, he wasn't a dick or antagonistic for no reason. He cares for team dark and he is happy when he sees that they care about him as well. His own game has the worst version of the character by far. In forces he was... Fine. Still a little bit like a Vegeta wannabe, which isn't his character at all.
Knuckles was sort of dumb in generations and lost world, although he doesn't do much. The issue with the chaos emerald is still present, but at least in forces he wasn't a dumbass, although the leader position doesn't fit that much either.
I think people take that scene of Shadow stomping Infinite a little too hard. Aside from that, he was honestly kind of normal. Not the best, it was okay, but not terrible. Kirk's voice direction in Forces was pretty good too. But recently with TSR, the twitter takeover before TSR, and Mario & Sonic 2020, his voice went back to being raspy and well, edgy. But yeah, the gold standard should be SA2/Heroes/06
@@gamejitzu sonic battle had some good moments of him too I think
@@littlemissdeadly24papyrus36 I meant more about the games with the best mix of writing and voicing, though tbh I don't know much about Battle's dialogue and cutscenes.
Battle is said to be one of the best Sonic stories, and the game was made when they cared about Shadow, so I can believe it
Knuckles in Forces thinks up a battle strategy by his own admission "in like a second" and gets hundreds of his soldiers slaughtered. The game treats this like a joke, as if Knuckles being actually retarded enough to be so careless with hundreds of lives during a war is supposed to be funny. Knuckles is awful in Forces as well. Him being a leader totally doesn't make any sense, that is like the opposite of Knuckles' strengths. It's almost as stupid as making Amy the techy computer guy- Oh wait...
Also Shadow was just some psycho asshole and the whole story was his fault for no reason, he was completely bastardized still.
My issue with a lot of Sonic fans and critics, is they say there's too many Sonic characters... yet the biggest issue is that too many of them do NOTHING. It can seem like there's a lot of characters if most of them just stand around saying the same things as each other.
People claim that Sonic's friends are overutilised, if anything it's the opposite. What did Espio do in Heroes? He helped Vector and Charmy rescue Eggman. What did Espio do in Forces? I have no idea, because he and most other Sonic characters in Forces just stand around saying the same stuff over and over.
The only notable characters in Forces were: Sonic, Buddy, Infinite, Eggman, Tails, Shadow and Knuckles and that's only because half of them were badly flanderized. The rest of them did nothing of note (other than Amy saying Infinite was in Eggman's lab for a long time... which isn't even true).
tbh after what they did to tails, i'm glad a lot of sonics friends are missing if THAT'S what theu could become.
Imagine cream asked "sonic help me!" , granted she's six but in advance she fought to get her mom and she could carry amy and big flawlessly. Cream is strong man!
To be honest, place ANY established character in this situation and people will be pissed off.
Oh please in today's era of Meme's can you be damn sure that there would turn Cream into Omega both in lines and in actual usefulness (the latter for Forces)
@@rynobehnke8289 That's what I mean. Back when she was introduced she was right there with the rest, either to save her mom or chocola chao.
Today she'd probably end up not even getting lines and just be someone sonic saves because "girl", like what amy was in sonic CD at the time.
@@WakoDoodle
I mean I daub that as this what there did with her in Shadow's game and sega seams to believe that everything that was in Shadow's game must be pure evil.
Also my joke mostly comes because to a less drastic extent is that what the mobile games with Dialogue did with her. (I thing the Sega Heroes Cream and Death Adder scene should be rather popular)
YES! Someone else who likes Silver!
Simple answer, though: Sonic 06 made people sick of Sonic’s friends, for some reason. (I mean, you don’t see anyone complaining about the insane number of Mario characters, and there’s far more of them than Sonic.) So Sonic Team relegated them to the sidelines to appease critics. And from 2010 onward, the writing staff just made it worse. Because it was such a great idea to hire people who fully admitted they got their information about Sonic from Wikipedia....
In short, it shows the main problem with modern Sonic Team. They try so hard to appease the critics and every single individual facet of the fan base that it ends up pleasing no one and makes for story experiences that are even worse than 06 could ever hope to be.
The biggest offense outside of Shadow is easily Metal Sonic. He was obsessed with beating Sonic in the older titles to the point where he’d full on betray Eggman in order to achieve his goal. But now he’s just generic robot no-193.
The side-characters (at least most of them) seem to have been made to be more than what they appear on the surface, but in recent games, their personalities have been made to fit exactly what they look like.
Personally , Sonic has the biggest nerf in term of attitude , he isn't supposed to be a stupid clown. He was just arrogant and determined to save the day :I
Haven't watched the video yet, but I just wanna say you are an extremely underrated youtuber and I'm sure success will be on the way.
The other characters definitely haven’t been utilized much in the games lately. Even in a game like Generations and Forces they’re not utilized much.
On the bright side they’ve been utilized properly in the IDW comics lately. The game crew should probably take notes from that series.
Definetly
facts IDW does Sonic, Tails, Shadow, Amy and Rouge justice
@@donathan2933 Although they can get a bit iffy with Shadow, mostly due to mandates. Most notable example of this is what he did in the Metal Virus arc. But he still has his moments.
@@kaylemathewcomendador6964 yes but IDW Shadow is getting better and I'm not going to bitch about the Metal Virus cuz that already happened and Shadow seems to have learned his lesson
@@donathan2933 "poorly aged things"
This time I was waiting to finish the video before making a comment but.. "They are dupped by their client Metal Sonic." No, their client was Eggman, who was captured by Metal Sonic.
For the Blaze Silver section. The events of Sonic 06 erase themselves so Blaze's sacrifice ultimately never happens, so yes she would be back in the Sol Dimension, where she would likely be doing her Princess duties or fighting with Dr. Eggman Nega. Silver going to the past to help Sonic is likely do to Silver's time is still a disaster despite, Iblis, and Ifrit, (and whatever else) being defeated. In Sonic Forces since Eggman conquered the planet (Not clear if its Mobius or Earth) it is likely still in control of some form of the Eggman Empire. You are right its weird that Sonic doesn't acknowledge Blaze in 06. The weird thing about 06 is that no one except Silver interacts with Blaze, making some fans, ludicrously, think that she is a figment of his imagination.
Going back to the beginning of the video, you cry for Mighty and Ray (rightfully so), I'll cry for them and all the others who didn't make it into Sonic Heroes. Nack the Weasal/Fang the Sniper, Bean the Dynamite, Bark the Polar Bear, Heavy the Robot, Bomb, Tikal, and Chaos.
I hope my ranting comments don't bother you. Sorry I'm doing them in nearly every video. Clearly I am very passionate about the franchise. I do like that you took the time to go over each of the main characters of the franchise in this video, and this video as a whole. Keep making these awesome videos.
Yeah but Sonic wouldn't have remembered who Silver is because 06 retcons itself.
@@YujiUedaFan That's not what retcon means.
@@EmperorKarino Retroactive continuity. 06 undoes its own events because Sonic, Shadow and Silver made sure Iblis and the events leading the princess to Sonic never happened.
@@YujiUedaFan That's not a retcon. When Shadow lost all his memories at the start of Sonic Heroes, it must have been a retcon of SA2 by your logic.
@@EmperorKarino No because the other characters still remembered SA2. None of the characters from 06 remembered the events of 06 at the end, so the events undo themselves. Amnesia isn't the same as undoing the entire plot of a game.
Thankfully the IDW comics are fixing this issue and a bunch of other issues.
What about shadow
@@freyaljones7368 Shadow’s character definitely needs some fixing. Also that racing short wasn’t too bad since everything was for the sake of comedy so I’m more forgiving to how the characters are portrayed.
@@walkermcmurrin7452 People keep calling him a heartless jerk in IDW; yet since he first appeared in the comic, his primary goal has been bring Eggman to justice for the War, and now the Metal Virus Saga. Also, just recently, when he was investigating a rich Chao-racing creep's penthouse apartment; Shadow found a cage, looked in and was disgusted at what he saw. He later give's said creep a surprise kick to the back of the head while Rouge, Amy, Cream, and Gemerl were trying to negotiate with him. Rouge thanks Shadow, as she was trying to trick the guy; but Shadow states that he didn't do it for her and points them to the cage, revealing that the creep locked any Chao that failed him in a race even once in there.
What kind of "heartless jerk" wants to avenge wrongs, take preventative measures against villains, and utterly hates Chao abuse?! None that I know of. Really, the biggest thing wrong with IDW Shadow, if you ask me, is that he keeps suffering one humiliating defeat after another, even though he SHOULD be able to go toe to toe with Sonic!
@@freyaljones7368 What about Sonic himself?
@@walkermcmurrin7452 sega mandates
The problem is that the developers can't resist milking a popular gimmick until it becomes a case of quantity over quality and fans get sick of it. The characters were a popular aspect of the Sonic franchise, but then with each game more and more were shoehorned into focus, with game often forcing you to switch between them, badly writing the story to revolve around them with Sonic and the other original characters barely an entity and so many of these being put in one game it often became a buggy mess. Sonic 2006 was where it had reached it's most inane level and fans complained profusely.
Of course rather than acknowledge their own handling and over indulgence to be the fault here and better moderate the supporting cast in future games, they just assumed fans didn't like any characters besides Sonic and ditched them all.
It's not milking if only the playable characters are the ones actually being advertised. SEGA loses money by paying the voice actors of the characters that don't do much. The reason they do that is probably to keep the voice actors there even when their characters don't have important roles.
I think the problem is less about cramming everyone in (I mean just look at Lost World. It was literally just Sonic Tails Amy Knuckles and Eggman and his robot companions, Knuckles and Amy almost die off screen with Knuckles just being there and Amy being sappy "pls save me Sonic I'm dying", and even then Tails is still the brat engineer who isn't even allowed to have a gameplay contribution)
and more about letting people other than Sonic and his best friend Sonic have a real personality.
Oh, wait a sec.
Nope, even Sonic isn't allowed to be angry or sad or anything any more; just crack bad jokes and sound like a middle-age man trying to be hip.
I hope those rumors about pontack and who ever not writing the next Sonic game are true...
I hate the way you only get to play as Sonic now, I miss Tails and Knuckles being playable characters.
Regarding Sonic's friends, Silver's the one that I feel got shafted the most. That roundhouse kick scene from Sonic 06 and the infamous "It's No Use!" line turned him into a meme, as well as a punching bag for Shadow. It's true that Silver can be a bit of a dork, but that part of his character shouldn't be overexaggerated. Also, Silver's the only male hedgehog that doesn't have his own game. I can understand why he doesn't have a spinoff, but anything is possible with the right amount of effort.
There's something else I want to say about Silver and his relationship with Blaze. A lot of fans seem to interpret their bond as if they're a couple, but they don't even act like one at all. There's no evidence of them having romantic feelings towards each other, let alone hints or signs of that stuff. The bond they actually have is more "familial" (similar to Shadow and Maria/Jet and Wave). Blaze views Silver like a younger brother. It makes sense because Blaze was the mature, responsible one during 06, while Silver was the insecure, naive one (Blaze as the mentor, Silver as the apprentice). Having those two be lovers just doesn't feel right.
In terms of romance, Silver has a better chance with Sonic. Out of every other character in the series that's connected to Silver, Sonic is pretty close. Silver is the dorky, humble teen that's inexperienced, while Sonic's the cocky, confident teen filled with experience. The dynamic that Silver and Sonic have is like the average, unpopular student (Silver) who has a secret admiration for the most popular and coolest guy in school (Sonic). That type of love is pretty relatable. It's pretty common for a lover to tease their partner. The way Sonic teases Silver in TSR isn't too different from the way Rouge teases Knuckles. Silver is a strong believer of hope, and having him fall in love with a strong hero who symbolizes hope is perfectly in-character for Silver.
P.S. There's a cutscene in Forces where Silver nearly gets killed by Infinite, but Sonic shows up to save him at the brink of his demise. If you look closely, Sonic gives a gesture with his hand telling Silver that he'll deal with the jackal. That gesture often indicates someone trying to protect the one they love. Also, Silver spends more time hanging out with Sonic than he does with Blaze in her own dimension. It's not just Silver's that underappreciated, his bond with the Blue Blur is also underappreciated.
haha u have a mighty pfp and i have a ray pfp
you shipping silver with sonic hit me like a fucking truck in the best of ways
6:06: "So who is guarding the Master Emerald? Amy."
Holy shit
😂
well that explains everything
They need to get the team writing the Sonic IDW comics in the game stories. They're already:
1. Fleshing out pre-established characters
2. Adding and fleshing out new, interesting characters
3. Everyone is important to the story.
Now if only Sega would allow them to give Sonic character development.
I remember when mighty and ray were drinking to take away the pain in a bar back in the 2000s now they are mainstream and mighty has even shaved.
@Adri345 Two words, Classic cast.
@Adri345 Mania's still considered a mainstream game.
Thanks so much i been wanting to know the answer of why they went to the background thanks for doing a video on it and I noticed they way you say hedgehog are you from Chicago
I AM from Chicago! The way I say “hedgehog” gave that away? LOL
@@chaomix lol i knew it and yes it did give it away but I think its cool how you say hedgehog
Amy Rose has been my favorite ever since I played Sonic Adventure so that will probably always be my favorite game, although I really like the sequel and Sonic heroes.
Don't forget about Sonic himself.
I hate how he is too cocky and a showoff these days making jokes left and right.
Back then he was just a Hedgehog that was very Nobel, Heroic and little Cocky without going Overboard.
Really sad how the Sonic movie got his character right yet Sonic Forces got his character wrong.
Also can we talk about how Sega needs to stop making new characters until they can get their shit together with what they already have?? It got me so mad that they introduced infinite to Forces, but still couldn't manage to get a proper hold on everyone else
Shadow has probably the biggest nerf, even sega doesn't know what to do with him.
It feels two sides of the company want him a certain way.
One side wants him to be an interesting character while the other half wants him to be a "haha funny edge lord"
Personally, the games need to take more of a IDW direction when it comes to the characters & the overall stories. These stories do the characters soo much more justice than the games have been doing.
Like explaining why Blaze didn't appear in Forces, why the Wisps returned for Forces. Having way more expressive characters, darker & even deeper emotional moments that the games oftentimes have a harder time accomplishing (at least outside CGI cutscenes). All paired with some pretty great humor. Albeit, Shadow's personality there is questionably off, but everyone else, fantastic!
Also there's a Sonic TV show coming in 2022, even more of an opportunity to give these characters proper representation.
And apparently Team Sonic Racing is a thing, so I guess that counts as including them more in the story. Albeit a little confusing as to why Zavok is working for Eggman, when both Lost World & the IDW comics clearly indicate that he hates Eggman.
Either way, I'm really hoping that after 3-4 years Sega can deliver a Sonic (30th Anniversary) game that can meet our expectations & not overload it with characters. As long as Blaze, Silver & Shadow have a focus & each character fits into the story that makes sense, while respecting their personalities (like the IDW comics do). I'd be happy with it.
They stopped writing everyone after 06 failed
The worst part about the issue with never seeing Knuckles with the Master Emerald is what happened in the prequal comics to Forces
As I recall, Knuckles is guarding it before Silver shows up, having found a way to the past after the future gets screwed up (again...). They fight an illusion of Chaos before taking off, just abandoning the emerald. So not only has Sonic Team completely forgotten about the Master Emerald, when they remembered, they made Knuckles a terrible guardian
When we meant he has too many friends, we didn’t mean THE MAIN 3 CHARACTERS!!!!!
Honestly, I think we should have everyone, Amy, shadow, rouge, big, omega, blaze, silver, cream, espio, vector, charmy, sticks, and everyone else.
Very well made video. I like how you explained the whole Sonic and Blaze timeline thing. It makes sense enough to me and I don’t know if even Sonic Team is sure. Hopefully the Sonic Encyclo-speedia releasing next year will handle this and other continuity questions.
They've been Flanderised.
Sonic & Tails R is doing a great job of their characters though
Sonic and Tails R is fantastic. I would be totally down for Sega picking up when its done and making it into a fully animated show, as I'd sooner take that over another season of Boom any day. Also really hope the next game can get back to the tone the radio drama has, because thats how things used to be, before Free Riders and Colours happened at the start of the 2010s.
Part of me kind of liked how Silver would shout his attacks out 😂
@@DemonDethchase "I'd sooner take that over another season of Boom any day"
another season of boom, unlike you, would make me happy. also what's sonic & tails r
@@theceoofceo5033 An ongoing 10 part unofficial radio drama series that's more in line with the tone the series had back in the 2000s, when it wasn't afraid to take itself seriously. As well as being a story centered around the Chaos Emeralds (remember when they were a thing?)
It features the voices of Mike Pollock and Ryan Drummond as well as a few other surprises...
Part 1 ruclips.net/video/siOnf9lsCho/видео.html
Part 2 ruclips.net/video/j2dlVccIsYQ/видео.html
Part 3 ruclips.net/video/Dly2ekaeTdA/видео.html
Part 4 ruclips.net/video/ZjW0-6Out4g/видео.html
The IDW comics do the characters a lot of justice, as well as Cream just,,,,, existing. We also get two new characters, Tangle and Whisper! I’d recommend them if you’d like to see a serious story with well written characters.
I'm not sure if Shadow's IDW treatment was that great, but... I'll admit I liked the issue where he acknowledged he was acting like an arrogant fucker after the Metal Virus was gone
9:31
Mistake here. Their Client was the real Eggman who was held captive by metal sonic.
he isnt your metal sonic??
Whaddya mean@@seashellguy9416
In Sonic 06 Blaze seems to recognise Sonic by the way they mention "a blue hedgehog?" So I'm even more confused lol
Literally Sega forgot the whole sonic lore after sonic colors
Ken and Graff, they wrote for games after Colors and Ken doesn't care, he just wants the position and money.
I love this video, absolutely fantastic! And I never thought I’d live to see the Sonic Ice-Cream drawn in the Sonic Adventure style XD
Can we get An F In the chat for Tails and Amy's destroyed characters ;-;
Huge F because those two are my favorites.
It's been over 10 years... I don't understand why the outsourced Boom of all things could have Amy, Knux and Miles playable again in 3D. But meanwhile in the next mainline game, have Classic (Sonic). Again. Seriously besides being a marketing gimmick, he's also nothing but a bad tribute act when you consider what Sonic's character was actually like back in the early days, as he barely has enough personality to fill a sandwich. I really hope that outside another 2D title we never see Classic again rubbing shoulders with Sonic, as no doubt Tails will be stuck with the job of trying to get him over again.
I think it would be beneficial if you had more examples to back up your points. Some of your points came off as generalizations to me.
For instance, "Amy is now just Sonic's #1 fan." This was more so this case from her debut all the way until Lost World and Forces. That side of Amy was toned down for her to be ""involved"" (using that word very loosely) with the plot more. In Lost World, she was more concerned with the mission to save the animals, and in Forces, she was more concerned with helping the resistance (this is further elaborated in the IDW comics).
To say that Rouge has become nothing but a flirt is another thing I disagree with. It undermines the character development she has, especially with Shadow and Omega. Additionally, that aspect of her was present since Adventure 2 and stuck ever since.
Nonetheless, great video.
Amy actually had other traits besides her crush on Sonic, more specifically her compasion, love for excitement, interest on mystical things, her ridiculous strength and so on. And that specific trait her detractors always point on was never a problem, it's how it was used because she can still love Sonic and contribute on the story, examples being SA1, 2, Heroes (despite you know what), 06 and the IDW comics.
I just want a game like Adventure where I can play as Knuckles again
Look no further than Mania or Frontiers
That's 100% what upsets and annoys me the most in all sonic games from the last decade.
Thanks for covering that topic you make really great videos
👍
It’s too do with the mandates and that sucks because sonic character have so much potential to be explored with
In sa2 when knuckles put the master emerald in his ... pocket?, did he ever put it back? Maybe that’s why he isn’t at the shrine just carries it everywhere
6:06 sega will probably say "it's chaos" but he's on sky with tikal or something
They T posed to the sky, at this point i believe Rouge already stole it.
@@dragondelsur5156 t pose *intensifies**
I highly recommend the Sonic IDW comics, those answer almost all the plotholes and questions from this video
@Adri345ok, they're still cool af tho
The comics have it worse than the games because Iizuka keeps on making up insane mandates, like Team Dark never having been a thing and currency not existing in Sonic's World, despite Vector's whole character revolving around money.
Sega keep hinting adventure stuff, if they're working on an adventure style game they'll have to have more playable characters than just sonic and maybe even more importantly a Chao garden I just hope that's what's happening
9:32 “They end up being duped by their client who turns out to be Metal Sonic”
Wasn’t their client Robotnik who hired them to take down Metal Sonic?
To me the biggest Sonic characters that got nerfed was Tails, Knuckles and Amy. I hate how Tails was in Sonic Forces where He was a wimp, Knuckles is a dumba*s and Amy is a Simp. I feel that Tails, Knuckles and Amy should be part of Sonic and Eggman (aswell as Orbot and Cubot to an extent) because They have been around since the Sega Genesis/Sega Mega Drive days (Sega CD/Sega Mega CD for Amy)
Tails is Sonic Sidekick and Best Friend and will help Sonic whenever Sonic needs it, while Tails is a tech nerd He'll also use His tech to aid Sonic, Knuckles is Sonic Friendly Rival who's serous but yet gullible like give Him a reason why He's helping Sonic and Tails like have the Master Emerald be involved and use His strength to aid Sonic and Tails, Amy should be less of a Simp (or Dumba*s in destress) and keep Her crush on Sonic a secret, show it but when ever someone confronts Her crush on Sonic she should just blow it off and just be blow it off saying that Their just Friends and have a hard time confessing Her love for Sonic (kinda like Nagisa from Pretty Cure), also Amy should keep Her optimism and tell Sonic that He should not give up that He can do it whenever Sonic feels down.
I feel the IDW Comics nailed Tails, Knuckles and Amy's characters perfectly Tails has shown His courage in issue 21, Amy has shown that She's a strong character and Knuckles know His duty on protecting the Master Emerald (watch GamerGuyd's video on how the IDW Comics destoryed the Characters He did a better job on how IDW and Ian Flynn broke down the characters and fixed them).
As for characters like Shadow, Rouge, Omega, Cream and Cheese, Vector, Espio, Charmy, Metal Sonic, Silver and Blaze, while I hate how Shadow is portrayed this day in this age flanderizing the character I feel like They should be side characters like They should appear in some games like have Sonic Frontiers focus on Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Eggman, Orbot and Cubot (mostly because Orbot and Cubot reminds Me of Scratch and Grounder from AOSTH), also what happened to Gemerl? I think Gemerl is a good asset to team rose and just have Big be the where's waldo of the Sonic series. I hope that Ian Flynn can fix these characters in Sonic Frontiers
I hope in the future Sega will realize what they are doing wrong but I’ll keep my expectations low to avoid disappointment.
The meta era of sonic has killed any chance of the Sonic video game franchise getting better for me. SEGA has shown time and time again that they don't actually care about doing better with the games or even refining what didn't work in previous games as long as the franchise makes a truckload of cash for them, and if they don't care then why should i? You could say that the only good thing about Sonic nowadays are the comics and the movie, and to that I say, that's a step in the right direction. But at the end of the day, those are the exception, not the norm.
Things can change don't lose hope
@@chill439 It's SEGA I've lost hope in, not Sonic the Hedgehog. SEGA half asses everything Sonic nowadays! This is the same company that allowed Sonic 06, Sonic Boom Rise of Lyric, and Sonic Forces to be released in the state they were in, further tarnishing the reputation of the franchise.
@@faidou9954 sega does need to change
@@faidou9954
I agree with you.
Sonic movie was way better then Sonic Forces that's saying much.
Hybrid Theory shirt, always a classic album! Nice video!
the master emerald really doesn't exist in the game anymore
"People have been complaining that I don't guard enough rare stones."
- Knuckles the Echidna 2017
I wish that the other characters got the spotlight again and maybe some of them be playable again!
Silver, Blaze and Shadow are my favorite sonic characters.
11:38 i kinda remember an interview where a developer basically said that they had literally forgot Blaze story from Rush.
Big The Cat in a nutshell: Big The Cat
Sega should give sonic team and the games right to a different company so they still keep the i.p and this new company may be good
Did you mean let another studio develop a 3rd party Sonic game? If yes, It's a great idea.
@@AAhmou more boost games!
What? Hell no, I think that would be WAY to big of a gamble. I think Sega is the perfect company for Sonic.
@@hydrochloric007 they really just need better writers, thankfully Pontac and Graff aren’t writing the games anymore
And knuckles in boom has MEME APPROVED
To answer the Blaze questions; Sonic 06 isn't canon so that's the reason Sonic doesn't recognize Blaze before and after that game. And as for Sonic Forces, It's explained in the IDW comics that Blaze was going to Sonic's dimension from her own after the Sol Emeralds directed her there, though she was "seven months late" as stated by Sonic. I haven't finished the series but I'm sure Blaze has a purpose for being there
If 06 isn't cannon how does silver even exist? When the plot In that game was the whole reason silver went back in time.
Ngl that thumbnail hit my nostalgia button lol
here me out.. Sonic Heroes 2. get more characters to play as each with a seperate story
I have to agree. If only there was a continuity that can be perfectly translated into an open-world game format where even the lesser known, obscure characters gets some time to shine... *Cough, Archie Sonic, Cough*
I think you mean idw imao
@@chill439 The Idw continuity can work as a sequel expansion to it.
I mean do we need the comics to be canon
@@tommyhamlin4611 It can work as a Spinoff game
@@tommyhamlin4611 the idw comics are canon, also for the metal virus could work as a warriors game for sonic
I want Amy rose as a playable character, she was one of the most popular female characters I miss the advance series smh
Why Blaze doesn’t appear in Forces is explained in the comic series.
Blaze always appearing in Sonics dimension is like Knuckles never being near the master emerald anymore 😅
@Terry But it’s obvious where she is. Last time I checked she’s a princess in her own dimension. She’d have her own things she’d need to do
Agreed whole-heartedly with everything presented in this video. As a Sonic fanfictionist, this is something I work *very hard* to break, always trying to make Sonic's allies much more integral to the core events of the story. Particularly in the earlier Sonic tales (especially Archie comics), I always felt like Sonic's friends played a pivotal role in his character development. Seeing that fall by the wayside is part of why I feel like Sonic as a character has stagnated periodically over the years.
I think that the fact the thumbnail is a "Sonic Popsicle" that has melted a bit.
Every sonic character since 2010 in a nutshell:
Sonic: hero jock.
Tails: weak.
Kunckles: dumb.
Amy: girl.
Shadow: edgy .
Rouge: rule 34 (for the furries).
Omega: just there.
Cream/cheese: gone.
Eggman: dr. Doof 2.0 (diet and no one likes diet soda).
Chatiox: just there.
Sliver: just there.
Blaze: gone.
Babylon Rogue: gone.
Heavy and bomb: gone.
Honey: gone.
Team hooligan: gone
Meatl sonic: gone
This is how the sonic characters are now tries/remember when they were good and complex in a balance away and not dark n edgy away like all the rest of the game mascot characters.
At least dr Doofenshmirtz goes through a character arc and is interesting. Doctor Eggman is supposed to be a threatening villan, while doof is supposed to be comedic.
fr
@@thewinterwarriormane true
don't dissrespect doof like that he has far more dignity than that rotten egg
@@gustavogutierrez6568 I'm not disrespecting doof his a good character I'm just saying I don't want him to be a copy of him I want eggman to be his own character and not a diet bad copy of doof. (What miss the good doof is you know).
I like The Sonic Series and my favorite Sonic Videogames are Shadow the Hedgehog Sonic 06 Sonic Unleashed and Sonic and The Black Knight and I hate how useless Sonic's friends have become especially Tails it's like all their Character development is all for nothing.
Even Sonic is kinda useless
Normally I don't mind my favorite characters being OOC but the way I want them OOC is them having emotional trauma and having PTSD from their previous adventures and having complaints about some of the things that happened
I also want Tails complaining about how useless he is and Sonic tried to help him by telling him he's not that useless but he doesn't believe him and Tails' anger keeps getting the best of him and all of them are dealing with nightmares they're having.
My favorite Sonic characters are Shadow Sonic Silver Tails and Amy.
So many sonic characters are just background characters to the point most of them are forgotten. Bark, bean, fang, mighty, and ray became less recognizable again.
I really want to see Nack/Fang return someday
Excellent use of the Tidus Laugh
I was from the time that the fans wanted Sonic's friends to be gone...