I think I have an explanation for why the sage leaf is so old, the cave’s time warping abilities. If the sage leaf remained under the cave for a prolonged period of time, and we know that caves move quicker than the surface, to the sage leaf it could have been ages since whoever his last apprentice was since we’ve been running around on the surface which has left him to age
The caves move slower. 1/6 the time of the surface. 20 minutes in the cave is 3 minutes on the surface. The Sage has been there longer than we can imagine.
Time in the caves does move faster. The problem with time differences is that they are not intuitive. If we think about time as distance in this case, it helps. If we have moved 20 time units in the cave in the same amount of "true time" as the surface moved only 3 time units, then the flow of time in the caves must be faster. By extension of the numbers you used, if we were to multiply everything to be days, then 20 days underground would be three days on the surface. thus in the 15 days that Olimar has been on the surface, 100 days have passed underground. If we consider that Olimar might have trained with the elder (either as himself or as a leafling prior to our arrival, and the fact that we cannot access the elder until after we have rescued Olimar (which I would guess happens about 30-40 days in (depending on your dandori), then anywhere from 200-266 days would have passed underground, which is almost a year. A year would definitely be long enough for the elder to say it had been a while since he had trained anyone. @@VarietyTelevision
@aaronwilson9265 That's a good point, but the Sage cave doesn't work that way at all. No matter how much time you spend in the cave, a day passes. His time is much more distorted, but it can't be Olimar. We know this based on context from the game. The Sage is on possession of the White and Purple Onions. In Olimar's notes, he states those Pikmin always comes from Candypop Buds, which we know isn't true. This tells us Olimar hasn't seen those Onions, and in turn, hasn't met the Sage.
We have to acknowledge that the sage leaf is controlled by the onions and that saying it’s been so long since they’ve trained someone could be part of the purple and white onions’ ploy to find a suitable activator. Another thing, I thought it was weird that the sage leaf knew Oatchi’s name but this could explain it if they didn’t find Oatchi first.
Maybe spacesuits have built in translators for different languages. It’s a little weird that every single planet in the galaxy speaks the same language but it would make more sense if the different languages were simply translated in real time. Perhaps the sage leaf does use his own names for pikmin and onions but they are translated into the names we know by the suits.
Maybe, but would our shots be able to translate the Sage's made-up words? What are the chances that his language had words that translate to onion or pikmin? I do agree the suits probably translate to some degree, but idk if they could in this sotuation.
@@VarietyTelevision There's probably some contextual indication of what he's talking about, and in a world in which a highly sophisticated AI exists solely to appraise alien collectors' items and give them cute snappy names, I'd imagine a real-time context-based AI hooked up to the language database would be on the cards.
I have two theories: 1. The leafling process includes information on the onions and pikmin 2. Louie is the newcomer. It would explain his amazing dandori skills. His voyage log shows that he was in Sun speckled terrace, and he may have landed before the rescue corps. Then, he went into the cave, hoping to find food, but instead, he found the sage leaf. Louie MAY have struggled, but he adjusted. He may have gone in the cave before adventuring. Louie's voyage log shows that he wasn't with Moss all the time. This means he is capable to do stuff by himself, aswell in pikmin 2. He explored Hero's Hideaway before us. Then, he takes a lot of time in all the areas(creature hunting for food, fruits, etc.). But Giant's Hearth has lots of giant creatures to eat and fruit to eat(making him take extra long there). But, if he wanted to stay, he would've, but we've likely collected almost everything there. So then, he moves to Primordial Thicket. I call it the "Louie Name" theory.
I co sidereal Louie, but since Louie shows up after Olimar, the whole "it's been a lo g time since I trained a newcomer" doesn't apply. If Olimar is too recent, Louie is way too recent. Also consider time in the caves moves slower than the surface, I think the Sage has been stuck there longer than we can imagine.
@@VarietyTelevision True, but we actually don't know when Louie landed or the areas he explored first. He could've gone in any order. Now, just remember, he was sent by the president. So the president knew where olimar went, so he could've sent him anytime. But I think the real question is, if it's a retelling, how does Louie know the name of pikmin? Where did his ship go? I was also disappointed to see he wasn't turned into a leafling.
@@GalacticalSceron I don't see him refer to them as pikmin until he's brought back. Also, the president sends him in response to the SOS, so we do know he at least landed after Olimar.
At least 29 days after Olimar, because ye sends the SOS shortly before his life support runs out. Life support is 30 days, we only get to use 15 of them in game.
@@VarietyTelevision But he calls them pikmin in dandori battles. And the sage could've been any area he explored. Let's say it's the first. Then, he is able to sneak past us(rescue corps.) and explore the areas way faster than we did. But I'm still confused. Where is his ship???
You can also explain this within the "Pikmin 4 is in the main timeline" idea by saying that whoever the sage leaf was had already been aware of their existence, as we know that Olimars stories gained a decent popularity with some people. As to why he could be old? Perhaps he was just a explorer on the older side, and has simply aged a bit since, as aging on his level can start around your 40s and 50s so it's not to far fetched to say this as we don't know how much time passed between 2 and 3, and then 3 and 4. Perhaps it's been a couple of years in those time frames.
Yes but I doubt a second food crisis is happening on Koppai, and ABC already went to 404 and met pikmin, so the other Koppaites should already know about all of this. Not only that, but all the characters should because of his popularity. Rather, we see everyone learn about all of it while planetside, through Olimars logs. Others show up because of his logs, but nobody seems to know about the stuff Olimar would have done already, which makes me think he hasn't yet.
@@VarietyTelevision One thing of note is that Hocotate and Koppai are close! It's possible they could even be in the same system! So info reaching those planets and not all the others we see is very possible! We only see 3 castaways from these planets and if 4 is in the timeline and takes place before 3 then Koppai doesn't know of Pikmin yet, and the Koppaites we see in 4 probably aren't famous enough to garner any attention! Do my point still makes sense!
@jonlevidalkvistagustsson6134 Of course! However, we also know that Louoe meets pikmin in P2, as well as works with Olimar throughout that game. I don't think Louie would forget about the Pikmin and his previous adventures. Forgetting Olimar, maybe, but not likely if P2 happened already. I point this out because he refers to them as 'walking pikpik carrots' despite learning their name in P2. I don't think Louie is absolutely brain dead, he would probably remember Pikmin at least, but he doesn't. Because P2 hasn't happened yet. This has to be P1 retold.
@@VarietyTelevision Some of louie's logs as with Olimar could have been written a while backk though! We don't know necisarily when they were written. So when the developers said in an interview that the timeline placement was up to your imagination, they really meant that when they said it. I believe this and you believe that! Yet we can still coexist in harmony! Just look at this friendly chat we're having here! It all works out is what I'm saying!
@@jonlevidalkvistagustsson6134 The logs being written a while ago doesn't explain Louie totally forgetting the pikmin as well as Olimar's face. I think this is a clear indication that Pikmin 2 hasn't happened yet. On top of the fact that Louie took in-depth notes while he was there. I doubt he would forget. But yeah, they did say it's up to each player, so.
Aaah I really love this one. I do see the Onions as being pretty sentient to some degree. To me, every time a leafling is made, it is done so purposefully by the Onion because it senses that the person is in danger. Like, if the person were alive and got sucked by accident, it wouldn't been leafified, or something like that. Just a theory of mine.
Exactly! It always happens in Lige-Support situations. Like the Onions are being symbiotic. The host gets to live, but in exchange for living as a leafling.
Ive got this solved yall. The sage leaf had a different name for them, but the pikmin/onions liked being called pikmin/onions more, and made the sage leaf start calling them that.
The sage leaf learns Oatchi's name when he comes up to the surface after Olimar's tale to get you to come into his cave, the nearby onion texted it to his brain
The one thing that trips me up is Olimar's comment that he prefers "Yellow Pikmin" to "Eared Pikmin". If the Onion beams the nomenclature directly into his brain, Olimar wouldn't consider alternative names. So now I wonder if Pikmin 4 takes place long after Pikmin 1 to 3 and we're dealing with the descendants of Olimar, Louie and the Koppaites. Which might mean that Sage Leaf IS the original Olimar. He was the one who named the Pikmin in the original trilogy. We know that he had a family on Hocotate, so if his kids grew up and had kids of their own, and so on, every couple of generations might have had another Olimar as tribute to their ancestor. Which would mean that Olimar in Pikmin 4 didn't name the Pikmin, but OG Olimar did. It's a "have your cake and eat it too" explanation for the discrepancies between Pikmin 1 and 4.
I think the Onion popped the idea in his mind, but if something randomly pops into your head, your head will do some reasoning to make it make sense. I think the ear pikmin but is just a reference to Brittany from Pik3. If you remember, she chooses to call them yellow, despite thinking ear pikmin is the better name. Perhaps she, too, was influenced by the onions...
@kuutti256 Right, but I don't think anyone is claiming the Onion named them ear pikmin. At least, I'm claiming that the Onion influenced the names that they do have. Their scientific name IS ear pikmin, btw, with only the common name being yellow pikmin.
If am not wrong moss was born on pnf-404 and is also best dog and how come the the finale boss has a cotton tail instead of a leaf what if he has only been on a planet for a short period of time also sage leaf is fiddle bert
I think I have an explanation for why the sage leaf is so old, the cave’s time warping abilities. If the sage leaf remained under the cave for a prolonged period of time, and we know that caves move quicker than the surface, to the sage leaf it could have been ages since whoever his last apprentice was since we’ve been running around on the surface which has left him to age
The caves move slower. 1/6 the time of the surface. 20 minutes in the cave is 3 minutes on the surface. The Sage has been there longer than we can imagine.
@@VarietyTelevisionthat cave is even weirder with time. No matter how long you spend, when you exit it will always have been 1 day.
@VannyBeumer That's very true. I wish I pointed that out in the video, but it totally slipped my mind!!
Time in the caves does move faster. The problem with time differences is that they are not intuitive. If we think about time as distance in this case, it helps. If we have moved 20 time units in the cave in the same amount of "true time" as the surface moved only 3 time units, then the flow of time in the caves must be faster. By extension of the numbers you used, if we were to multiply everything to be days, then 20 days underground would be three days on the surface. thus in the 15 days that Olimar has been on the surface, 100 days have passed underground. If we consider that Olimar might have trained with the elder (either as himself or as a leafling prior to our arrival, and the fact that we cannot access the elder until after we have rescued Olimar (which I would guess happens about 30-40 days in (depending on your dandori), then anywhere from 200-266 days would have passed underground, which is almost a year. A year would definitely be long enough for the elder to say it had been a while since he had trained anyone. @@VarietyTelevision
@aaronwilson9265 That's a good point, but the Sage cave doesn't work that way at all. No matter how much time you spend in the cave, a day passes. His time is much more distorted, but it can't be Olimar. We know this based on context from the game. The Sage is on possession of the White and Purple Onions. In Olimar's notes, he states those Pikmin always comes from Candypop Buds, which we know isn't true. This tells us Olimar hasn't seen those Onions, and in turn, hasn't met the Sage.
We have to acknowledge that the sage leaf is controlled by the onions and that saying it’s been so long since they’ve trained someone could be part of the purple and white onions’ ploy to find a suitable activator.
Another thing, I thought it was weird that the sage leaf knew Oatchi’s name but this could explain it if they didn’t find Oatchi first.
I think my next theory will help explain this further
Maybe spacesuits have built in translators for different languages. It’s a little weird that every single planet in the galaxy speaks the same language but it would make more sense if the different languages were simply translated in real time. Perhaps the sage leaf does use his own names for pikmin and onions but they are translated into the names we know by the suits.
Maybe, but would our shots be able to translate the Sage's made-up words? What are the chances that his language had words that translate to onion or pikmin? I do agree the suits probably translate to some degree, but idk if they could in this sotuation.
@@VarietyTelevision There's probably some contextual indication of what he's talking about, and in a world in which a highly sophisticated AI exists solely to appraise alien collectors' items and give them cute snappy names, I'd imagine a real-time context-based AI hooked up to the language database would be on the cards.
I have two theories:
1. The leafling process includes information on the onions and pikmin
2. Louie is the newcomer. It would explain his amazing dandori skills. His voyage log shows that he was in Sun speckled terrace, and he may have landed before the rescue corps. Then, he went into the cave, hoping to find food, but instead, he found the sage leaf. Louie MAY have struggled, but he adjusted. He may have gone in the cave before adventuring. Louie's voyage log shows that he wasn't with Moss all the time. This means he is capable to do stuff by himself, aswell in pikmin 2. He explored Hero's Hideaway before us. Then, he takes a lot of time in all the areas(creature hunting for food, fruits, etc.). But Giant's Hearth has lots of giant creatures to eat and fruit to eat(making him take extra long there). But, if he wanted to stay, he would've, but we've likely collected almost everything there. So then, he moves to Primordial Thicket. I call it the "Louie Name" theory.
I co sidereal Louie, but since Louie shows up after Olimar, the whole "it's been a lo g time since I trained a newcomer" doesn't apply. If Olimar is too recent, Louie is way too recent. Also consider time in the caves moves slower than the surface, I think the Sage has been stuck there longer than we can imagine.
@@VarietyTelevision True, but we actually don't know when Louie landed or the areas he explored first. He could've gone in any order. Now, just remember, he was sent by the president. So the president knew where olimar went, so he could've sent him anytime. But I think the real question is, if it's a retelling, how does Louie know the name of pikmin? Where did his ship go? I was also disappointed to see he wasn't turned into a leafling.
@@GalacticalSceron I don't see him refer to them as pikmin until he's brought back. Also, the president sends him in response to the SOS, so we do know he at least landed after Olimar.
At least 29 days after Olimar, because ye sends the SOS shortly before his life support runs out. Life support is 30 days, we only get to use 15 of them in game.
@@VarietyTelevision But he calls them pikmin in dandori battles. And the sage could've been any area he explored. Let's say it's the first. Then, he is able to sneak past us(rescue corps.) and explore the areas way faster than we did. But I'm still confused. Where is his ship???
You can also explain this within the "Pikmin 4 is in the main timeline" idea by saying that whoever the sage leaf was had already been aware of their existence, as we know that Olimars stories gained a decent popularity with some people. As to why he could be old? Perhaps he was just a explorer on the older side, and has simply aged a bit since, as aging on his level can start around your 40s and 50s so it's not to far fetched to say this as we don't know how much time passed between 2 and 3, and then 3 and 4. Perhaps it's been a couple of years in those time frames.
Yes but I doubt a second food crisis is happening on Koppai, and ABC already went to 404 and met pikmin, so the other Koppaites should already know about all of this. Not only that, but all the characters should because of his popularity. Rather, we see everyone learn about all of it while planetside, through Olimars logs. Others show up because of his logs, but nobody seems to know about the stuff Olimar would have done already, which makes me think he hasn't yet.
@@VarietyTelevision One thing of note is that Hocotate and Koppai are close! It's possible they could even be in the same system! So info reaching those planets and not all the others we see is very possible! We only see 3 castaways from these planets and if 4 is in the timeline and takes place before 3 then Koppai doesn't know of Pikmin yet, and the Koppaites we see in 4 probably aren't famous enough to garner any attention! Do my point still makes sense!
@jonlevidalkvistagustsson6134 Of course! However, we also know that Louoe meets pikmin in P2, as well as works with Olimar throughout that game. I don't think Louie would forget about the Pikmin and his previous adventures. Forgetting Olimar, maybe, but not likely if P2 happened already. I point this out because he refers to them as 'walking pikpik carrots' despite learning their name in P2. I don't think Louie is absolutely brain dead, he would probably remember Pikmin at least, but he doesn't. Because P2 hasn't happened yet. This has to be P1 retold.
@@VarietyTelevision Some of louie's logs as with Olimar could have been written a while backk though! We don't know necisarily when they were written. So when the developers said in an interview that the timeline placement was up to your imagination, they really meant that when they said it. I believe this and you believe that! Yet we can still coexist in harmony! Just look at this friendly chat we're having here! It all works out is what I'm saying!
@@jonlevidalkvistagustsson6134 The logs being written a while ago doesn't explain Louie totally forgetting the pikmin as well as Olimar's face. I think this is a clear indication that Pikmin 2 hasn't happened yet. On top of the fact that Louie took in-depth notes while he was there. I doubt he would forget. But yeah, they did say it's up to each player, so.
Aaah I really love this one. I do see the Onions as being pretty sentient to some degree. To me, every time a leafling is made, it is done so purposefully by the Onion because it senses that the person is in danger. Like, if the person were alive and got sucked by accident, it wouldn't been leafified, or something like that. Just a theory of mine.
Exactly! It always happens in Lige-Support situations. Like the Onions are being symbiotic. The host gets to live, but in exchange for living as a leafling.
Ive got this solved yall. The sage leaf had a different name for them, but the pikmin/onions liked being called pikmin/onions more, and made the sage leaf start calling them that.
The sage leaf learns Oatchi's name when he comes up to the surface after Olimar's tale to get you to come into his cave, the nearby onion texted it to his brain
He doesn't come to the surface? The cave is uncovered, and you just go, if I'm not mistaken.
The one thing that trips me up is Olimar's comment that he prefers "Yellow Pikmin" to "Eared Pikmin". If the Onion beams the nomenclature directly into his brain, Olimar wouldn't consider alternative names.
So now I wonder if Pikmin 4 takes place long after Pikmin 1 to 3 and we're dealing with the descendants of Olimar, Louie and the Koppaites. Which might mean that Sage Leaf IS the original Olimar. He was the one who named the Pikmin in the original trilogy. We know that he had a family on Hocotate, so if his kids grew up and had kids of their own, and so on, every couple of generations might have had another Olimar as tribute to their ancestor.
Which would mean that Olimar in Pikmin 4 didn't name the Pikmin, but OG Olimar did. It's a "have your cake and eat it too" explanation for the discrepancies between Pikmin 1 and 4.
I think the Onion popped the idea in his mind, but if something randomly pops into your head, your head will do some reasoning to make it make sense. I think the ear pikmin but is just a reference to Brittany from Pik3. If you remember, she chooses to call them yellow, despite thinking ear pikmin is the better name. Perhaps she, too, was influenced by the onions...
The Onion didn't say that name, the Hocotate Ship wanted to call them Ear Pikmin in Pikmin 2
@kuutti256 Right, but I don't think anyone is claiming the Onion named them ear pikmin. At least, I'm claiming that the Onion influenced the names that they do have. Their scientific name IS ear pikmin, btw, with only the common name being yellow pikmin.
If am not wrong moss was born on pnf-404 and is also best dog and how come the the finale boss has a cotton tail instead of a leaf what if he has only been on a planet for a short period of time also sage leaf is fiddle bert
Moss could be Sirehound's pup, but that's besides the point, just mentioned it because it's how I predicted that a character crashed before Olimar.
Sage leaf :0
pikmin 1 ≠ pikmin 4.
pikmin 4 is diferent universe beacause pikmin 1 true ending is good ending but in pikmin 4 true olimar ending is bad