Can you hear the difference between GUT and METAL frets?
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- Опубликовано: 30 июн 2024
- Today guitars have metal frets but historically they used gut (sheep intestine) for the frets and the strings. In this video, we will put gut frets on a classical guitar as an experiment!
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TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 Intro
0:51 History of Gut Frets
3:42 Tying on the gut frets
4:31 My reaction
5:16 Performance #1
5:32 Reaction continued
6:25 Performance #2
6:40 Marshall's reaction
7:11 PART II: Metal frets VS Gut frets
9:07 Short ad
9:30 Playing on Metal Frets
10:26 Comparison #1
10:38 Comparison #2
11:15 Was this a fair comparison?
11:56 Comparison #3
13:04 The verdict
14:00 Conclusion
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moving/adjusting the frets to get micro tones like on a fretless instrument like the oud would be really cool.
This one was so much fun to do! Thanks again Brandon!
You are the man, Marshall!
@Marshall thank you so much for making this kind of videos possible, much love
The guitars you craft are absolutely beautiful, Marshall. Cheers, friend. =)
Loved seeing you on Rob's channel, so it's great to see you collaborate with Brandon too!
Disgusting. Using a living being who was abused tortured and violently killed's body parts for frets? This is horrific.
Wind player's perspective here:
The sustain change was noticeable right away, but there's one other part of the sound that stuck out to me - the articulation. The gut came across with a more percussive attack, the metal frets with a little more time spent in the course of the attack. In the wind world, we'd probably call the gut one kind of a "d" tongue, and the metal frets a short "th" tongue on the attack. (When wind players talk like this, we're just making comparisons from what our tongue is doing while playing to the way you'd speak these syllables.) I'm hearing two things contributing to that: The upper part of the sound of the actual string being plucked (finger slipping off the string) speaks from the metal-fret instrument more clearly, a quick little "sh" sound. Also, the high parts of the sound, which are more full on the metal-fret instrument, take a moment to settle in - this may be more in the hearing of the sound than the playing. Since guitar is a plucked string, it will have inharmonicity (like a piano or cimbalom) and the overtones, the higher they are, the further out of tune with the fundamental they are. My guess is that when the ear puts the sound back together, it takes a little bit longer to sort out these extra highs, and categorize them as of one sound. The ear naturally puts together harmonics and groups them up if they're all in the same series, but the brighter an inharmonic sound is (the more highs), the harder that would get, since the higher parts of the sound are further out of tune than the lower ones.
Anyway, terribly glad to hear this excellent comparison, and thanks for making it happen!
Great analysis!
To my ear, the gut frets have greater clarity. Greater prominence of inharmonic higher tones from the metal frets might correspond with that impression. Perceived as a single note, there's clearly "more" with the metal frets. More sustain and presumably more complexity to the tone. Whether those are good things musically depends on context. In the music Brandon plays here, I don't find these traits desirable. The gut frets sound better.
great work in analysis. i agree.
I liked the mellow, slightly muted sound of the gut frets more during simple testing -- scales, quick chords -- but the musical piece made more sense to my ears with the metal frets.
That's why it's so important to test the full range of what you play when testing out different guitars/strings/gear (and frets!). Something might sound better in isolation, but still end up wrong when used in context.
brandon always have positive vibe, really positive. Attitude, tonality, gesture, good player, teacher, educator, and always sharing, the set and editing also very good.
He seems like such a chill dude. I'd love to chill and jam with him, but it would prolly be mostly me watching him play and ramble about theorbo tunings.
would be interesting see who a classical music sound like on a fretless guitar
Stay-tuned for a later video ;)
Youd have to find a song that doesnt include complex chords though, since thats the weakness of a fretless guitar
The nice thing about being fretless are all the microtones that live between traditionally fretted notes.
Sinan's playing within a Turkish makam here (hence all the microtones which might sound off to an ear turned to the Western diatonic) but for a taste: ruclips.net/video/S4BGVUUd3Y4/видео.html
its called an oud from the middle east great grandfather of the guitar
Seach buzz gravelle he uses a fretless classical:)
Welcome to another installment of the Midwest Classical Guitar Cinematic Universe
i love the gut fretted guitar, full of intimacy, it is a kind of mystical.
I can imagine that it does fell less comfortable.
The smoothness of the sound is also a great depth, it has more three-dimensionality, plasticity.
Fragil and lovely,
difference like between a modern Steinway and a pre-war Bechsstein.
These "old" sounds needs higher sensitivity, and could be that you confronted with wolf tones, the romantic repertoire definitely wins with these gut freds.
You can do microtonal stuff if you place your own frets :)
Stay-tuned for the next video ;)
@@brandonacker 😮😮
Super fun Video, and you two vibe so Well together!
There's nothing better than seeing both of you talk guitars :D
Brandon, I love your sense of adventure and experimentation, from lute music in a video game to gut frets and strings on a guitar. Coupled with your superlative playing this makes for a fascinating ride.
the metal fretted guitar has more "air" on the higher frequencies, more resonant and yes, has more singing factor. but for some reason, I love the sound of the gut fretted version. it sounds... organic for me.
So THAT is how Carcassi #7 is supposed to sound! Gotta hit the books a little more on that one, oof!
oof!
Being hispanic this reminds me of how vihuela(mexican vihuela not spanish)players and guitarra de golpe players actually do this quite commonly in now even in modern times
Back in the 80s, a local luthier made a couple guitars he described as "primitive" guitars. I thought they looked like some kind of Latin American instrument one might have had made by a local craftsman rather than trained luthier. One had gut frets, the other had bone frets. Both had distinctive voices that were very much unlike a lute or modern classical guitar. I guess in some ways, they were instruments in search of a tradition. It's a pity the market doesn't really have much demand for such retro innovations. I don't know what happened to the instruments. I presume they're sitting in someone's collections somewhere. The luthier himself long since retired and would be quite old now, if he's even alive.
Brandon Everything you do is so sincere and gentlemanly it's a pleasure to watch. Keep it up!
This Man is really a different kind of a Master of Classical Guitar!! 🔥👑
If anybody sees this guy and is deeply confused because you recognize him but can't figure out where from; he's the luthier that so kindly guided Rob Scallon through building a guitar.
I first came across Marshall in Rob's video. It seems he's very happy to collaborate on videos like these and share his craft. He's obviously a very good guy as well as an incredible luthier
It definitely sounded more medieval with the gut frets. So even if this isn't designed for that, maybe it would be an option for someone trying to play more medieval pieces without having to learn the original instrument. Interesting either way and the explanation regarding the gut frets absorbing some of the energy made total sense.
honestly a really nice concept, it would be interesting to see gut frets on the entire guitar, for example designing a guitar with holes on the neck and the body specefically for movable frets
You always do really interesting content, Thank you.
Thanks!
Really thank you your channel has HOOKED me < you making a cold wet Melbourne winter heaps better, i just wish i could master an even tremelo, it seems to be beyond me, i suppose broken old carpenters fingers arent made for it but i keep trying..
moving/adjusting the frets to get micro tones like on a fretless instrument like the oud would be really cool.
Stay tuned for the next video!
@@brandonacker looking forward to it.
Im very happy that you tried to do this gut string on classical guitar. This answered my question for many years since im imagining this way before. Trying gut frets on fretless classical guitar hehehe.
Great content! One of your best, most entertaining and informative videos. Imo, the gut frets sound incomparably better. 👍❤️
You just introduced me to new music I haven’t heard. I have to learn them on piano now! 🥰
It has more character with the gut frets but rings more with the metal frets.
Loved this!
Really enjoying your channel! Was wondering if you ever tried out the viola da mano or vihuela de mano from the early renaissance?
Aaaah even watching this was such a unique experience! and I wanna ask this, is there any chance for us to see you trying and explaining about Yamaha Silent Guitar? or Idk if there is any other brands out there which made something like their silent guitar! I've already found several great reviews about it, but since you are testing everything, and you always teach us some extra knowledge about the background and history of things, thought your review on it would be fun 💙and thank you 💜
Very interesting 🤔. I didn’t know that the type of fret board composition seemed to mess with quality and sound and all that. Very informative 👌
Great banter, Marshall's a cool guy ^^
Glad that you've got the guts to try it on a client guitar.
It might be worth experimenting with nylon, silicone or some other softer material as fret material. Perhaps there's a happy medium.
What an interesting session... I love it !
This was really neat! The difference between them was honestly more than I was expecting, and it was great to see more Marshall as well!
As an amateur guitarist that only plays the rhythm section, and a little bit of arpeggio, I can perceive the difference between gut and metal: the metal frets make the sound resonate more and last more, whereas the gut frets almost mute themselves
I would be really interested in seeing a video from you about the lacote guitar with adjustable frets
Thanks very informative
Liked the guts short
sustain but melooow
I love the imperfections of the gut frets the steel frets sounds great and perfect, but sometimes it's the imperfections that make music and instruments truly great.
See the next video - the guts frets are MORE perfect, not less
Good job👏 Warm cheers.. 😘
Now I'm curious how a saz would sound with metal frets 🤔
Metal frets sounds crystal clear, but gut frets definitely have more versatility in it. This experiment is so inspiring, and I learned a lot from it!
Hm, what is to be expected is the metal frets have less dampening, so they have more sustain and more high frequency content, which means they have more brilliance. I do find that this brilliance does not mix well though. I feel like chords on these more mellow gut frets have some very consonant quality that is missing from the metal frets.
The additional interesting conclusion from this experiment is the impact of the bridge material (and the saddle when playing open strings). In fact it's the same story, but on the other side of string. With soft (typically cheaper) plastic bridge the sound is not so vibrant like when the bridge is made of kind of bone. Of course this is a personal preference. The soft material muffles the sound, the string decays shorter and with less harmonics. Some people may prefer that "softer" sound of old instruments, from "the epoch". For some music pieces I could also like it more :)
Thanks for the informative material, as always :)
@8:40
Do guitar players not understand how guitars work? It's a resonant body instrument. The vibration of the string is transferred to the instrument via the bridge, which they make contact with firmly at the saddle. The bridge transfers the vibration to the soundboard, which then goes on to vibrate the rest of the resonant body: sides, backboard, and the volume of air inside the chamber.
Obviously an affixed fret acts like another (albeit less-effective) bridge, vibrating along with the string and transferring vibration down the neck and to the resonant body.
Once, when I was young boy, I heard that violin strings were made with cat intestines, but this is so far from reality, but who would have thought, frets made with sheep intestine Gut sound clearer and cleaner than the ones made. Made of metal, to be a 100% organic material, it has a very natural sound, and perhaps that is my appreciation, but perhaps in the Renaissance period Gut frets were used for any chordophone instrument, be it guitar or lute.
Gut frets and gut strings were normal before 1800. Then gut strings were still normal until 1940!
@@brandonacker Correct, in the late 1930's Nylon and its derivatives were developed by Wallace Carothers for the DuPont company, and until the 1940's they were not as common in use.
It could have been sheep intestines, but I don't think it was cat intestines.
What I find funny is that the difference in sound between them is a similar difference to the difference between metal and gut or nylon strings, at least how I perceive it. Hearing the gut frets first, it sounded warm and natural and intimate, which is how I perceive gut strings to sound, but then hearing them with metal frets, suddenly it sounded bright and clear, which is how I perceive metal strings. Of course, it didn't sound like metal strings, but it sounded more like metal strings than the gut frets sounded.
What a splendid idea, trying gut frets on a regular classical guitar! One question I have is did you likewise try gut strings, or were these regular (metal wound) guitar strings? Another question, when were metal wound strings first introduced for lutes and guitars, and did this new technology (the ability to wind metal wire around gut or metal cores) coincide with the introduction of metal frets on guitars? Do you know if any lutes or theorbo type instruments were ever retrofitted (retrofretted?) with metal frets, perhaps during the period of time when the fret technology was being introduced? Maybe like cittern or gitterns? Sorry, so many questions!
BTW, I found Marshall's explanation of the entire build (more or less) of the instrument having to be approached differently when using tied frets to be totally credible, though I'd never thought about it before.
Good work! I have to look at your "sheep gut strings on a guitar" video now...
Great video when you first played to gut frets it sounded like an electric on with everything turned off. Very clean but with emphasise ... crazy hundred ms of years ago people where smashing guitar in the bedrooms with sheep intestines lmao
Hey Brandon
Love your content!
Can you make a Video about Heitor Villa-Lobos Prelude No. 1 in E Minor? Love this piece so much, would be awesome! 🔥
Fun fact; In german frets are still called "ties" (in german: "Bünde") even when refering to modern frets
I love it!!
I’m not taking anything away from the steel frets at all but I prefer the gut fret sound in every way. Really fantastic!
Great video.
THANKS!
I liked the soft muted sound of the gut fret., I think it would fit in certain contexts kind of like when people use old, dull strings on certain songs instead of new. Elliot Smith did that on a lot of his songs.
That was a nice experiment! Now I'm really interested in what a gut fret designed instrument will sound like with metal frets, cause to me the guitar with gutt frets sounded very much like a lute kind of thing. So will it happen backwards to?🤔🤔🧐
i still loved the sound of the gut frets.
The metal frets are definitely brighter.
as a physics major it impresses me how much about energy transfer and resonance marshall intuitively understands from building and playing instruments
I love the gut fret sound , I used to play a weird vihuela and it definitely had gut frets compared to other vihuelas. Now that I hear what a gut fret sound can give.
Now you just need to play a viola de fado, which is basically a classical with steel strings!
That would be really interesting. There's little tradition for steel string "Spanish" style guitar these days outside the Iberian Peninsula. I don't think most guitarists in North America even know they exist.
Maybe another difficult comparison given the different recording setup, but one of the clear differences to my ears was that the metal frets sounded brighter. To be fair, I may have been listening for what I expected, because I theorized ahead of time that the softer gut frets would more readily absorb higher frequencies. Stiffer materials can more quickly "snap back" to reflect a high frequency wave, whereas those frequencies take longer to reflect through soft materials leading to more energy dissipation. On the other hand, a slower oscillation "has time to wait for" the softer material to deform to its limit before bending back, and so can resonate better. This effect is easily observed in how soft padding in a space "softens" the sound, whereas a hard-walled space can sound "harsh." This effect, while pronounced at higher frequencies, is active at all frequencies, and so would also definitely reduce the sustain of the note. There's also the complicating factor that we're generally dealing with sounds whose power drops with frequency, so even a flat attenuation would appear to affect the high frequencies more because of logarithmic perception (Fechner's law and all that).
This can all be described rigorously with dispersion relations and phase velocities, my hand-wavey explanations are almost certainly misleading and/or incorrect in some sense. But it's cool to see how basic material physics have observable impacts on sound. I suspect luthiers can mostly get away with the rule of thumb "hard materials brighter, soft materials duller" while focusing on other factors, but it's fun to think about why that is.
That takes some guts
This is interesting because mariachi instruments still use these kinds of frets, although now they use nylon, wasn't really as surprising to me. Their instruments are kind of a blend of old and new technology though.
oh this is gonna be great
Brandon, could you please explain that small thing on the first fret (a piece of tape with a piece of gut string probably?) that can be seen at 00:08?
I often see this stuff on lutes and I suppose this is for better intonation in some tonalities when playing together with instruments tuned to non-equal temperament, but it would be great to hear you talking about this. Not only about the purpose but also how it is done.
Good eye:) I'll discuss that and temperaments in my next video!
@@brandonacker Many thanks! Your videos are always a source of valuable info and lots of inspiration!
thanks Brandon, now please check the Fretless guitar ! :) for me the one with metal frets ☺️
I would like both instruments. I enjoyed the deep sound of the gut strings. Can't wait to order one.
I prefer the gut frets. It's warmer and has more character. I'd love to hear this experiment again with gut strings instead of nylon to go with the gut frets.
David acker what’s the baroque crescendo arpeggio practice piece by Bach (I do believe) you played for a moment. I learned it and have forgotten it and can’t find my sheet music on it. Thank you bunches.
Bought guitar from Richard Brune! so nice to see!
Having watched both videos, I now suggest a hybrid gut fret Spanish guitar which can play classical and modern pieces in different temperaments suited to the piece. But it will probably need a sponsor since it is such a party piece instrument
I think the next video is going to be interesting 😉
This is why they've switched to metal frets when they've added another Low String is cause of the Metal Wrap Wire
I know zero about guitars, frets, gut, etc. However to me the gut fretted gave a warmer, more organic (?) sound. The lagrima you played sounded really pleasing.
Great video! I have a couple of questions, when guitars went from gut frets to metal were the strings still made from gut? Second question, is that guitar you used for this demo a spruce top?
The trebles were still gut but they started using basses wound with metal. So the wound basses were also chewing into the gut pushing them toward metal frets.
Spruce top, yes. You can tell because its light and yellowish
@@brandonacker Thank you for both replies! I have never played a spruce top, but you can definitely tell the difference
@@brandonacker Interesting, I learned alot from this video thank you!
One benefit of gut frets not mentioned, is better intonation. Even if you only use equal temperament, glued in frets never seem to be exact. they need to be calibrated to your preferred action, gauge and tension of string. Strangely, it’s only electric guitarists and bass players who seem to understand the benefits of an adjustable bridge. As an early music musician, perhaps you should have demonstrated the beauty of chords with more pure intervals. Thanks for the video 😊.
Yes I did a whole video about temperaments in the same video shoot. It's called Why guitarists used to play more in tune.
@@brandonacker thanks, just watched it. Excellent video, thanks again for all your wonderful information.
As someone who likes guitars with extra jumbo stainless steel frets, this might feel like a time machine taking me to 19th century Austria :D
Vampire is nostalgic about the gut frets he so used to
Great video. I wonder if you have any guitar with true temperament frets that you can review?
In my next video, I put these gut frets in different historical temperaments. I'm not convinced by this new "true temperament" idea with fixed frets.
@@brandonacker Maybe you want to create a video on that and let us know why you're not convinced? I personally don't have good musical ears to notice the difference, but some people claim the tuning stays near perfect in chords, no matter what fret you're using with true temperament frets.
@@ThisGuyRocksLikeCrazy Perhaps my video where I play in temperaments will help explain why it's not a good idea. In short, non-equal temperaments are great for tied on frets because you can change whenever you like to play in many keys. With fixed metal frets in one temperament, you cannot play in all keys nicely. The true temperament frets make some keys better, certainly not all.
@3:32 you can see the "be gentle with the instruments please" look
The gut frets are a lot softer which would lend them to sit nicely in an orchestra, but the metal frets have a lot more punch and sound better as a solo instrument
If I was setting up a guitar section in an orchestra I would give everyone but the soloist gut frets
You can also employ a trick Paganini used (on violin). He would write in a key that's awkward for orchestra, such as E♭, and then he'd tune up a half step sharp so for him it was just like playing in D and the instrument rang out. He would be brighter than usual, but also the orchestra would be darker than usual because they almost never got to play on open strings. I would say "he was tuning in E♭ before it was cool" but it would be more fair to say "it became cool because Paganini was doing it".
Sadly, his compositions are rarely played this way any longer. A large part of that is owners of old, fragile, and extremely expensive instruments being unwilling to risk imploding them by tuning a half step sharp. So instead, the overall key has to go down a half step so the solo violin part remains in D. The change in pitch isn't as much of a problem as the loss of timbral difference between the solo violin and the rest of the strings now that they're no longer tuned a half step apart.
It's not that hard to re-string a guitar to play a half step up without imploding, so this technique remains viable. So if you can't get a tonal difference from gut frets vs. metal frets, you may be able to get it by having the solo guitar tuned a half step up and putting the piece as a whole in the key that works best for the soloist. Screwing over everyone else to make them sound worse is optional.
Doing these tests took a lot of guts
The gut was sweeter to my ears, but then again I prefer a mellower guitar over a bright one.
it sounds so good...
Do I remember correctly that Juan Bermudo recommended fixed metal or bone frets in his book from 1555?
Wow, very insightful! Check out “Going Home” by Shiro Sagisu! It is a Spanish piece you would love✌️
The metal frets seem to have more sustain, and overall loudness. The gut frets seem to taper off more rapidly in volume after the attack, which gives it a softer sound to me but almost dull. The metal frets definitely seem like they absorb less energy from moving, and therefore don't impede the sound as much. Very interesting!
To my ears the mozart had a more original baroque 'feel' to the sound on the gut frets than on the steel frets.
great fun. it depends on the desired sound.
Could you use monofilament (fishing line) for gut frets?
Very nice experience!!! But gut frets give more depth, I think it will be nice to use in some music 🎶 ❤❤ Thank you so much ☺️
WE LOVE MARSHALL
i wanna hear you play moonlight sonata 1st movement please!!!
Metal is "sparklier", but I think I prefer the gut sound overall. Maybe the metal is good in some contexts but I like the sound of the more pure string attacks/onsets/whatever you call them that comes from the gut frets, without all the non-harmonic high-end twinkly fluff that I usually don't like that much in guitars in general.
Gut frets sound definitely has medieval vibe, I've noticed less sustain, bump in midrange and more percussive attack. Would imagine this kind of guitar be a good option for soundtrack writing or if you just need an instrument that sounds unusual (like it's a guitar, but something's off XD)
Interesting, I completely refinished the neck on one of my best guitars because it had one tiny ding, about the size of a flea, drove me nuts. That is a super guitar.
Me: hmmm that looks like pasta
Brandon: *sheep intestine*
Me: oh
The very early 6 string guitars had bone or ivory frets along with gut strings, were these any less likely to wear out the strings than metal frets?
I've never used bone frets. So I'm not sure.
What makes metal frets pinch the string-windings is the differential in hardness between the different metals. Continuing on that train of thought, a material that isn't as hard *will* wear the strings less, but will experience more wear itself. It's really not "worth it".
Speaking in modern-terms, having your strings wear out is *vastly* preferable to having your frets wear out. A fret job will cost you a *minimum* of $200, and that's only speaking towards nickel-steel frets. Anything else will be charged at a premium.
I glued on Bronze Wire to give historical tunings.After that to disguise the wiggly frets I glued on wider straight bone frets (about 5mm wide ) and tuned the notes with a sharp chisel . The nylon strings will not wear out the bone but if you make divided frets the lower frets can be quickly replaced using a soldering iron to soften the glue . Good fun .
@@MFKR696 What`s haphazard about it ? It really works .Bespoke Frets .Just put one strip of bone slightly higher than one steel fret and see how it sounds. Six free notes .
I've tried mounting cut up strings as frets on fretless for the lulz (doesn't work, too cylindrical and slippery) but this is another level! Any cheap sources for gut frets you'd recommend? (I mean not concert grade lute stuff, I want to try it myself for fun )
Cheap gut is an oxymoron. I've heard tennis racket gut might be cheaper but am not sure. Anyway, I get my frets from bostoncatlines.com I use Kurschner gut.
Ah, thank you. I knew gut was expensive for strings but I was hoping there were some sort of "hacks" for frets :)
@@Sk0lzky The cheapest lutes are made with nylon frets. You could try that. You just have to watch a video on how to tie the knot.