Mike mentioned Greg twice. Greg has made ten videos about Mike and calls him a sociopath every other video. That should tell you everything you need to know.
Greg goes on about the subject matter and Mike resorts to personal attacks. Mike made it personal, and I still think Coach Greg does not give 2 fooks about the beef, he's just capitalizing off of it.
Greg Doucette lost all credibility when he decided to shill Turkesterone and respond to people that were (correctly) responding that there's no evidence it has any effect on muscle growth or strength was "wELL wHeRe'S yOuR eViDeNcE iT dOeSn'T wOrK??", which is the same disingenuous logic that he himself has criticized other people for
The science/studies says Turk works, what are you on about bro. I tried Ecdysterone(which is weaker than Turkesterone), and that shtt worked for me. Greg is a real one, you just can't handle the truth
I remember Sean nalewanyj called him out on his Turk bs and he went ballistic defending it and saying it doesn't give you an itchy butt hole lmao. Probably the hardest I've laughed in a while.
@@devilselbow ik what you're talking about that was Derek dissecting his pre workout. Sean made a short with coach Greg specifically mentioning Sean and how he said Turk gives you an itchy butthole and Greg was literally foaming from the mouth.
@@sirnetflix7162 The point still stands. Name-calling and using terms like "mega pussy" one moment, and then going into a debate with that person you called those things pretending to be all nice as if you didn't just talk mad shit about that individual, that kind of behaviour is two-faced by definition.
Also worth mentioning that Mike went into that debate more aggressive as he'd previously debated Joel Seidman and was criticised for not going hard enough on him.
Mike has alot of reasons to dislike Greg - supplement scammer (turkesterone etc), big ego, clout chasing, releasing many video ragging on Mike. Mike himself hasn't put out tons of videos on Greg but in todays world, the person who who screams loudly tends to get more followers.
Gregs content strategy is to be controversial and to flamboyantly criticize others to get a reaction (good or bad) and draw attention to his content and channel. However when people clap back at Greg he takes the low and humble route and tries to make the criticism sound childish and unfair.
Nah, he has said multiple times and shown view counts for videos where he doesn't do the voice and the drama. Views drop off so even though people say they don't want that they really do. As for his normal voice, he literally uses that on ever podcast or interview he does outside of his channel.
I don't know. Calling someone's training being a pussy way of doing it, then coming on to a debate after that all agreeable and cordial seems disingenuous.
Wow, he is such a moron for puting on a persona to get more views as he makes a living of it and actualy acting like a decent human being when it matters. I hate how he didnt do what Mike assumed he would without actually knowing anything about the guy.
@@mr.m4524That's the definition of two faced. It doesn't matter if he's "a nice person when it matters". When you publicly say someone trains like a p***y and then try to act all cool and buddy buddy you're going to come off as disingenuous and fake. He's like a reverse Jon Jones
Mike vs Greg is basically Bro Science Vs Science. If Greg didn't shill out that Turktestrone stuff I could kind of respect him. But Mike is right, Greg does play two faced a lot and I also hate people like that.
I think the audience are different, one of the first channels I watched when I started working out was Jeff Nipard and man was it complicated, I didn’t and still don’t know shit. I just wanted to look better than before. Now I know I just need to train harder than last time.
He constantly plays on drama, his whole channel is based about picking a random person that is getting views and then making drama about how they are doing something wrong and making it seem like he cares, then he screams the whole video and tries to sell cookbook and supplements many of which are overpriced. Most people who are lazy in the gym will be lazy either way not to mention that most don't watch videos of either of them, if a person is deeply invested into gaining as much progress then you get this guy screaming "go harder" which is worth nothing whilst Mike makes good jokes and explains things and debunks things with actual proof.
@@Isaiaswolf66 Bruh..., if going to the gym and tracking couple of things is very complicated, I am sorry. Greg just doesn't bring anything new to the table.
Egos on both sides but Mike is nowhere near the narcissist that Greg is. I stopped watching Greg a while back. Drama at every turn, now Mike on the other hand has some solid advice often sprinkled with self depreciating humor, and (mostly) no drama.
But Greg likes to play the clown character so you already know when he's talking or selling BS, and even if he says that he's always right, you know he knows you know he doesn't. Mike on the other hand uses humor too much just so he can lower your guard, and right after that he hides behind a veneer of objectivity to sell you his own very biased line of thought. Who do you prefer (i like both) it's up to you, but if both were scammers, one is the type of scammer who charms you with expansiveness and is very pushy with you, and the other presents himself as foolish and harmless in a light-hearted way
If Greg really didn't care and was taking the high road, he would not have made like 10 videos after feeling snubbed once. He especially would not have made videos in bad faith trying to pretend to be concerend about Mike Israetel health, something he could have just reached out to Mike in private about.
@@ShongololoTottie-ou9kg except Mike explicitely tells people his experience and lets them decide for themselves wether they should or shouldn't do what he does. After everything he's said about his experience its safe to say the majority of his viewers wouldnt go through with TRT and whatever else he's on. All Greg does is shit on Mike to seem holier than thou.
@@Meeces55 not just that but also reverts to "source?" while he himself barely uses them, and if he does he specifically picks one that obviously supports his argument like the seed oil study. yes the study was correct on the ingredients safety.. but how is cooking oil made? constant heating to make it palatable, which means seed oils are in most cases more rancid than others, cause bloating and digestion issues. he easily falls for "Lying by omission" which nearly all media loves to do. only fools appeal to power, ffs we were told "have a cig" when you had a bad cough, or "have a radium pill" when you were wanting to avoid baby making which just made you mutated and infertile in the 50s
Calling someone a pussy because he/she has 2-3 RIR is dead giveaway. Coach Greg compensates for his lack of something, whilst Dr. Mike shows true science of training for people, who want to become stronger and more fit, not pro bodybuilders who sacrifice their whole life and health for this sport. That's my point of view.
I do Weight Training really hardcore, all Sets take into failure (0 RiR). I even do Cardio right after that Weight Training session. I never have any problem. I still make awesome gains. Greg's style is only for true Athlete and people with great genetics.
@@ShongololoTottie-ou9kgbut his content is false many times. 1. Turkesterone 2. Maingainig (he can't even define it) 3. He puts words into people's mouth that they didn't even say
@@vb2806 What's the problem qith maingaining? It's just saying you shouldn't get fat by eating junk food in a bulk then losing it. I guess there is no point in gaining extra weight unless you have like 5 pourcent bf then yeah come back to normal bf and gain muscle. For the average person there is no point in gaining then losing a lot of weight.
I think most of Mike's resentment probably just stems from the fact that this whole drama is something he is not interested to be a part of. For Greg this is mostly just business. He makes his living by creating drama. Mike doesnt, yet he is still part of the same fitness sphere where the drama is drummed up.
Mike is the one clearly creating the drama though, both online with toxic comments he makes about Greg and irl when he met Greg and make a fool of him. Greg is the one trying to deescalate and puzzled why Mike hates him so much. I think the real reason mike hates him is cuz he's just an arrogant "im a doctor" type who resents anyone who isn't a "doctor" giving out gym advice yet alone gym advice that mike himself disagrees with.
@@mab5710 Mike has done videos on and with numerous guys who aren't doctors and praised their training or programming. Jeff Nippard comes to mind. Your logic doesn't work.
@@mab5710 "Mike is the one clearly creating the drama". Huh? Greg put up multiple videos criticizing Mike. Did Mike do the same as well? Are we watching the same dudes?
@@vincee3005videos correctly criticising mikes delusion over his bodybuilding comp/prep isn’t t “drama” tho. All the other “drama” topics Mike brought up.
@@crycrcfyhf8862 it is if he puts Mike on his video multiple times for the same reason. He even made a video on Mike even though Mike announced his retirement on bodybuilding. The guy is fixated on making sure we know that Mike is "delusional" on his bodybuilding endeavors that it's astounding. And it works clearly since we are talking about it.
Cambridge Dictionary definition of "two-faced": 'Someone who is two-faced is not sincere, saying unpleasant things about you to other people while seeming to be pleasant when they are with you.' That's very applicable to Greg calling Mike a "Mega Pussy" in a video and then going into the interview acting like he's just a nice guy there to have a chat, and just trying to make people forget that he started out with name calling. That's being two-faced.
another dictionary word to use on greg: lying by omission, he just cant get enough of it like seed oil "studies" he mentioned (constant heating to remove bitter taste can make it often rancid, the ingredients are indeed safe, but not the end product)
When he is making a video talking smack about someone, he is in fact interacting with them. The fact that he freely admits to intentionally being a dick in his videos for cloud doesn't excuse them, and it gives his "victims" every right to mirror that energy in real life.
@@ToveriJuri Yeah, and people expect Greg to shout at everyone when doing a podcast?! lol like a 2 hour podcast of Greg constantly yelling lmao😂😂😭😭 that's just dumb
This is like a third graders understanding of their drama. Mike is jealous of Greg? I think it’s possible that Greg is simply dishonest and annoying to listen to lmao
Or that Greg danced on the corpse of Mikes personal dreams to “prove” that he’s right, and masked it with concern trolling. I’d hate the guy too if I was Mike.
@@ShongololoTottie-ou9kg maybe if Greg wasn’t or didn’t act like a man child and would hear out the other side of someone’s story I would take him more seriously.
@@lewlewlaser037 greg is a pathetic man and mike became what he hated (a shill for products, but so is greg) I hate that overconfident smug "humm hum, source?" as if Greg himself doesnt pick sources that are false 9/10 times like seed oils. yes indeed hes right, the ingredients are safe.. but what happens when you constantly heat the same oil? it becomes rancid, and if you dont heat treat oil its too bitter and disgusting to consume. all cooking oils are heat treated this is called "Lying by omission" which makes up around 99% of all media lies. it makes you technically allways right, you dont have to be responsible for lying, and you can concinve people with whatever you want as long as you have prestige like a collage backing you up (pretty obvious bribing)
@@ShongololoTottie-ou9kg What does height have to do with this comment at all? Greg being a man child has nothing to do with his height, but it has everything to do with the way he acts. He stirs up RUclips drama for views and money just to turn around and act like this humble guy who only cares about the facts. Just because you're gullible enough to fall for it doesn't mean everyone is.
People (myself included) subscribe to RP precisely *because* the content is so dense and in depth. A pretty dumbass assertion by Greg that it's somehow unhelpful because, what? we're too stupid? I like Greg, but he's out of his depth here, pro card or no.
Nah he has a point. The obesity rates are rising, and alarmingly increasing amount of people are barely even exercising. Mike content might be useful for people who already in the right headspace for fitness-oriented lifestyle, but a lot more people just need someone to yell at them to train harder (or train at all) and that for controlling weight focusing on calories is far more productive than any fad diets most people won't be able to keep up with. Lifestyle change is easier when it's simple to start. So essentially the target audience for these two is pretty much different and there isn't that much overlap.
@@ToveriJuri I would say: No. I'm not interessted in some dude who yells at me for no reason, because then I'm learning jack shit. Give me a good explanation why A works and why A might or might not be superior to B and I'm actually interested. But getting yelled at with "YOU TRAIN LIKE A PUSSY!!!!", doesn't really help.
And let's be honest, it's not that dense and complicated. If you're getting (academically) confused by what Mike is saying then maybe take a book with you to read in between sets. Greg complains that Mike is letting newbies off training like p***ies, but if you keep progressively overloading your training then it doesn't much matter where you start because you're going to reach failure within a year. The most important thing for new lifters is to learn their lifts, learn their bodies, and come back again for more.
@@nichtsicher422 Excuses! There are plenty of resources where people explain how and why different types of exercise works. Why has it taken you this long to start exercising then? You say you need a good explanation well you've had an easily accessible good explanation literally at your fingertips for way over a decade. If you are already past that point and need more granular information than "Train harder than last time" and "calories in calories out", then you weren't the target audience of the yelling in the first place.
To be fair when Greg roasted stopping before failure, he was probably thinking of all the weak men (90% of audience) who go to the gym and get no gains and stop when it hurts
This video seems pretty biased in favor of Greg. Not sure why you downplay how Greg's whole online persona is to stir up as much toxic drama as he can.
Agreed, Greg and Mike both are good btw Greg is Lil bit old school+ he has actual experience and IFFB pro card + He has masters in body mechanics and also taught kids. Meanwhile, Mike is PHD btw he lacks way to deal and explain or discuss with people. Mike is basically my way or highway and greg is like okay i would like know more about ur way excercise too and let's see what we can get benefitted from it.
Agreed, Greg's yelling motivates me at the gym, aespecially if I don't want to go or being lazy, and Mike's scientific approach helps me to know what I'm doing and his voice is cooler
they're both annoying most of the time though. all this 'science-based' focus, as if most people who go to public gyms are trying to be top tier athletes or bodybuilders lol
Personally, both of them make decent insights. Most times, Greg's more on the fitness drama side. With Mike though, his takes on fitness may come of too complex to any average gym goer can muster. The only issue with Mike is somewhat letting Greg get to his head.
Mike pros : 1.Has phd in sports science 2.Explains science based training Mike cons : 1.Jealous of greg doucette 2.Killing himself by trying for a pro card 3. Sometimes a bit too arrogant Greg pros : 1.Has both science and non science advice 2.Open and honest 3.has a pro card and world records in lifts 4.has a masters in kinesiology( study of bio mechanics) Greg cons : 1.Ecdy builder 2.Turk builder 3.Sometimes just a little bit too drama in the name of education Thats all.
@@swaroopnarayanan1898did he actually say himself that he's jealous of Greg? Jealous of what? That would seem strange as Mike even has more followers on here.
Not really. Greg openly admits he feeds the drama for views. He's never hidden that fact nor the fact that his over the top persona on his channel is for views. He even points out how non drama videos and videos where he speaks with his normal voice don't get the views so even when people complain about the drama and the voice really they don't want him to stop or they'd have watched the other videos more. Not as sure about Mike. He seems like he might actually be taking it personally.
@@camiloorsini9674and if you actually watch Mike's videos is the same? Both just have different opinions and methodologies and everything should be taken with nuance?
greg is a master manipulator. he makes countless videos angrily slandering dr. mike then whenever they actually talk greg turns into mr. nice guy so he can makes videos playing the victim.
Not really. Whatever you might think of Greg he was right about Mike's steroid use for the pro card. Mike even himself talked about the severe sight effects he got. If you have difficult time controlling it, have serious side effects and still feel compelled to use it that's basically junkie behavior and if at all possible, it's time to stop.
@@bradmaxwell6668 No not really. Being a steroid user himself, doesn't invalidate his views or criticism of steroid use of others particularly when he has consistently recommended caution with them, which Mike seemingly didn't practice.
I think the recent escalation of Mike against Greg is because he is friend with Joni Shreve. It's no secret that both Joni and Mike are buddies and Joni had his issues with Greg in the past 2023, so it's only normal that his dislike towards Greg would grow. Not that I am defending Greg, I prefer Mike's content, just my 2 cents on the matter.
@@oscarpinillacastro5893 Considering they all train and work hard. It's just down to genetics. We can't copy their physiques, but we will achieve our own potential and have different shapes if we follow their advice.
@@truthprevails8836 at least to me, it shows he came into it full of misplaced anger. He was never there to debate the material but to attack Greg. There is no world where you are in the right or in a good frame of mind if that’s how you’re approaching things
@@benreed9952 imagine entering a debate, after making drama videos about a person and their views, than realizing you can't win and than you're just start back paddeling and playing innocent and nice guy who is the victim in this situation. How is this behaviour, that can be seen by greg time and time again not scummy?
Greg was the first fitness channel I got into when I started going to the gym. He gives great advice for a beginner. That said, now that I want better advice, Mike’s the main channel I listen to (along with others, don’t really watch Greg anymore)
If you've never trained to failure, how will you know how many repetitions you have in reserve That was Greg's point! Both were right but one spoke for the average Joe and the other (at the time) for advanced lifters and I think they would agree on 95% of everything they share, but it all depends to whom the message is intended for. Despite everything, I like them both ! :D
@@reiudfgq3vrh34ur he’s not 100% right because 70% of people think they go to failure, but they actually haven’t even gotten there yet. Thats why science based lifting combined is the best of both worlds
I've rarely trained to failure (except last week of meso) but I still see my numbers increase. I dont 'push' myself to failure but will hit my goal for that week, and as long as that number increases week on week, nothing else matters. I dont need to min-max the shit out of this, its not a sprint. There is also a massive mentality issue when all you do is just rely on 'training to failure'. There have been many a times where I feel like I've hit my failure point after 12 reps but I knew statiscally this wasnt the failure point because 3 days ago I hit 20 reps on that set so that reinvigorates my will to keep pushing (and will stop at 20 or my rep goal and not push further). A new person who doesnt know just how much they can progress in their meso wont do well if they dont know when to stop even if they can push a few more reps. Both greg and mike have valid points, neither are wrong or correct in their methods as long as it works for people using them.
@@Gekkco 70% of people just want to look good and feel good. Going to absolute failure of 0 RIR has no benefit over 1-2 RIR. If you’re a competitor then how you’re workout changes.
I only see progress after i stopped "train harder" and "maingaining", its Greg's way to trap their audience in the novice phase so that they can keep buying his supplements. Greg is a bad person.
Was going to say, train harder doesn't mean much beyond knowing what training to failure is for you. Greg seems like a former pro-athelete who had a huge amount of talent, has been training hard since they were young and are effectively ahead of a lot of people just by that combination of two things. Train harder won't get you better results, you need to know what to do and how to do. Also, maingaining doesn't seem to have much evidence for it. You certainly don't need to eat huge amounts of food and get fat if you're a normal person just a relatively small caloric surplus will get you there. alternatively, if you want to cut as a normal person, a relatively small reduction in calories and ensuring your exercise levels are the same will get you there. It's not that hard but someone like Greg doesn't want you to know that.
I'm all in agreement with Mike, I'm sorry a simplistic approach is nice and all but to reduce essentially an entire field of science to just train harder is just too simple for me.
Mike is the man! He got me back into weight training at age of 44 after almost giving up after lifting for 20 yrs then almost giving up! Big ups Mike 🫡
Mike's methodology works very well for me as a new lifter and previously injured person. Once I feel like I've rehabilitated that part of my body I'll push harder if I think my body can take it, but so far it seems completely valid.
I don't care about their beef. I only go to fitness channels for fitness tips. I take advice from different influencers and make up my own plan. Neither one of them are wrong. I've used both of their advice...along with lil known fitness influencers. I've made great gains from taking advice from different influencers. I don't take a side, I don't even have a favorite influencer. I urge anyone else to do the same.
Funny to hear Greg complain about Mike impersonating his voice when he in his complaint video makes it clear that he himself is making a voice when he's screeching
Mikes advice is better sorry to say. I like them both and they both seem like nice guys but as someone who has injured myself and known many other people who have done the same mikes advice is was better for the average person who’s life isn’t completely evolved around weight lifting.
Was going to say, I know he's mostly into drama now but Greg Doucette's advice is basically only applicable to someone with an iron will an determination to push yourself and has years of quality training and conditioning under their belt.
Simple. Because Greg is annoying, fake in person and even though he agrees with Mike on 95% of things he'll disagree on specific things because being a drama queen makes money. This is honestly as objective as it gets
@@ThillyThauthageth everything. he is not fake. he just changed style of presenting info. his early videos was long and calm. just go look older videos. even greg admited it in few interviews. cuz his screaming and other drama videos what makes his channel sucessfull. and if it that annoys you is your problem not his or mine...you dont need to hate it.
i didnt know that having disagreement makes one a drama queen. Greg's very open about being a salesman, but repeatedly makes an emphasis about being honest and giving a new viewpoint when people doubt him. Saying annoying and fake are as subjective as it gets
@jernej.skoflek exactly he is changing the way he presents to make it more dramatic than last time and bring the clicks with his fake parrot voice because it works. I've been watching Greg for ages he knows what he's talking about but it's so obvious he's chasing the drama with his daily videos on Mike amd Sam Sulek
Greg had his chance to be the bigger man (lmao) once Mike gave up his dream of getting a pro card. But instead of being respectful, he kicked him while he was down. Greg pushing his snake oil Turkesterone bull cemented it for me. But fug it it's youtube drama between 2 guys trying to make money, so who really gives a shit
It's clear to me that Mike is not in control of his emotions, but i still believe him when it comes to saying Greg is twofaced. Greg's act is of being a humble guy that critizes others purely because he wishes them well. I feel like it's the most convenient persona for someone to take, if they want to do drama for a living. If you claim that you going after other people, comes from a place of humbleness, trying to educate and help everyone improve, then you have an open road and allowed to say anything about anyone, right? The harder Mike lashes out, the more Greg benefits from acting more and more and more humble. The result is Mike being humiliated, and that's exactly what Greg intended. I dont think Greg made videos telling Mike to stop going for IFBB pro card because of wishing him well in terms of health and longevity. If you genuinely want something like that for another person, you can privately talk to them in a dead serious way, set aside everything if you're such a humble guy, right? But wouldn't that be such a waste of content? Instead Greg made some videos that basically showed Mike as being incompetent in several ways to 100s of thousands of viewers right before that important bodybuilding show happened. This absurd of "Oh im so concerned for his health, the public must do something about this!". It's not goodwill, it's drama and engagement. Even if i'm glad to be informed of the subtle stuff Greg could tell, it wasnt entirely "educational", it was more like "insider info" and rumor type content. Im sure many others feel the same blurry line between informative and gossip/rumor. When Mike hurts his own image by confessing he has severe anxiety disorder for the purpose of educating ppl on the use of steroids, that's informational, when Greg starts telling to a large public that Mike has major vein trombosis or nearing KIDNEY failure (both of which are pretty damn close to dying), that is filthy gossip (He's not a damn medical doctor!). And i've seen videos from Greg in the past where he takes someone else's ironic/satirical content, and makes a video out of it acting like that person is being serious. Or sometimes acts as if he doesn't understand the source content in general. There's nothing authentic or humble about that, there's an explicit goal to drive engagement. I'll probably be reminded of this drama every time i see another Greg video and he's misinterpreting the source again.
Greg's content has shifted more towards the drama side of YT over the years. He even tried to dip his toes in the manosphere space before it imploded. I think he saw just how much he can benefit from a controversy (Athlete X drama), and has been instigating/trying to beef with popular RUclipsrs ever since. Initially it felt like he was trying to logically pick apart the other person's advice, but over the years it turned into drama for drama's sake. Now he is a multimillionaire so ig the cash needs to keep flowing.
I agree with you on everything. I think Greg is a stereotypical former pro-athelete who knows he can't or won't go back to getting a real job and minding his own business so he think it's cool to talk trash about people but when someone called him out on it he was the manlet he looks like. TBH I think Greg pushing his cook book and Turk builder that don't work really make him look worse than Dr Mike will ever look calling out Greg.
While Greg may be right that Dr Mike speaks over people's intelligence levels, he needs to understand, not everyone wants to watch whatever that persona is he has on YT. I'd rather watch Dr Mike and understand every other thought than listen to Greg screech and scream at the camera. "Oh no, Dr. Mike doesn't have his pro card!" And? There's hundreds of bodybuilders without pro cards and coaches that didn't win championships as players, but rather as coaches.
Gregg making video after video about how Mike needs stop going for the pro card for health reasons then gloating about him stopping going for the pro card is a shit head behavior.
@@ghengiskhan9308critiqued ronnie, tries to get ifbb pro card by ruining his health, doesnt use his own advice in his own training, and growing ego for me. His content changed.
Wouldn't even put it like that I've watched them both for a while. Mike isn't over complicated unless you have an iq of 50 even tho it's science based lifting I do find that I learn more from Mike and some of the methods he talks about I have benefitted from. Greg is a snake oil salesmen enough said really training harder than last time doesn't last forever and you can do it day in day out or week in week out his advice to maingain is also terrible. He strikes me as someone who wants to make money from fitness and is more worried about that then putting out quality fitness advice.
@@ghengiskhan9308 Mantras like "calories in calories" out and train harder than last time are simple and easy to understand for people who barely even train and can't be bothered at all with any macros. His advice is overly generalized and not very optimal, but if the alternative is a completely unhealthy lifestyle, then simple ideas that do work for regular people is great. You have to realize that most people aren't as autistic about these things some of us and can't be bothered "minutia"
@@ToveriJuri because theyre easy to understand doesnt mean much. lets really look at the details. Greg is a snake oil salesmen and a fitness drama channel. Not saying that all his advice is bullshit but he only cares about clout at this point. If general people understand Greg or Mike doesnt say if their advice is right or not. People can take "train harder then last time" and misunderstand then fuck up their training but that doesnt tell us if that advice or mintra is right or wrong or useful. We have to look at the details.
@@dqreps Mike doesn’t see eye to eye with Greg. But he’s also killing himself and going to leave his wife as a widow. That isn’t the win you think it is. - He can dislike Greg and take care of his own body. Mike doesn’t need to take decades of his life.
Actions speak louder than words. Mike releases all kinds of "non-drama" content that can be informative whereas Greg on the other side... Screamy whiney WHY?
So he's two faced...because he plays a character? Dr. Mike's argument falls apart once you consider the context of RUclips as a platform. In an interview (I really wish I remembered where I'll link it later) where Greg talks about Talking shit on RUclips, then being chill in real life with each other. He talks about how Dr. Mike came up to him and talked his shit, and while Greg was expecting him to talk after the ambush, Dr. Mike just left.
I found both helpful. It wasn't until Mike I understood what a calorie actually is at a scientific level. I had always learned the definition in school but Mike's explanation was when it clicked. And it was Greg who instilled in me to actually push harder. He was the one to tell me more about how to ACTUALLY track my intake, how the box labels really are and what assumptions to make and not make. The fitness space, and more importantly the general public needs both of these giants. Before these guys I was limping diet to diet struggling to loose weight and falling for fad diets
Mike's content is not difficult to understand. Like do people really not know what tension or load are? That's basic vocabulary, and requires very little critical thinking to understand in the context of hypertrophy.
Most people who watch RUclips fitness aren't elite or advanced lifters. I am an advanced lifter and only watch RUclips fitness for funny content like Eric Bugenhagen or fake natty compilations. If you're watching Mike/Greg/Nippard/BaldOmniMan/any RUclips fitness person for actual workout advice, it is overwhelmingly likely that you are an intermediate or novice lifter. Those lifters most likely have little to no idea of how to judge or assess the information presented by guys like Mike
@@ScruffSt Fitness experience is not related to mental acuity in a way significant enough to shape a person's overall intelligence. I very much doubt that most people do not know what load, tension, strain, or fatigue are. That's basic everyday vocabulary whether you're physically training or not. A novice probably won't be able to correlate that knowledge to their muscles, but that's physical ignorance of their body because they haven't trained before. As they train more that knowledge will become more effective. So having an understanding of how to exercise properly will be beneficial when implemented even if they cannot feel the direct effect yet. Learning later and having to fix and relearn aspects of training is redundant at best and a waste of time more likely. More knowledge is always better than less.
@WilliamT-ep8cz but experience is very much related to the ability to relate a stimulus to the proper physical response. This is something you nerd types fail to understand. Just because you "know" something, doesn't mean you'll know it when you must apply it. For example you can read about how to build a house and learn all of the theory and science behind building a house, you will definelty know a lot about building a house BUT you will not know jack about actually applying that knowledge in a real uncontrolled setting. I think you just sound like a fan boy and need to take a step back from all this RUclips stuff and just focus on training. Maybe then you'll realize that no matter what nerd stuff these guys tell you on an entertainment platform is most optimal or will give you the most gains doesn't really matter, as training is highly individual and requires more than just some nerd with a degree telling you what is most optimal. Just go train, train consistently and track your training and you will find what works best for you. To your second point, yes learning to train properly will help, but beyond the bread and butter basics of training like form, linear vs peruodized progression templates, recovery and diet. There isn't much information that is really relevant to a novice or even intermediate lifter that most of these guys say. It's just dumping info on people who can't use it or dont need it and then subsequently suffer from paralysis by analysis by placing this highly specific granular advice by so called professionals on a pedestal. Just lift bro, who cars what some nerd like Dr. Mike says after he tells ypu to add 5lbs to your lifts every so often, to lift with good form and eat and rest well. Thats 90% of lifting right there, everything else is fluff.
I am somewhat a fan of greg, he's given me all sorts of invaluable information. But I don't think I agree with the following: I don't think Mike's jealous. But I do think that he's possibly fallen into the delusion that Greg is two-faced. I believe Greg was genuine during the interview. Just to clarify, that's my assumption - I could be wrong. Anyway, here's the rest of my thoughts. Greg's online persona is not something you should take so seriously, this guy's not like a parrot in-person. He started making videos like any other person, being their genuine, nervous self. He's what we'd call a normal dude. And a very successful one at that, now. But he's still got his weird quirks. For example, his assumptions in a social setting are sometimes possibly wrong or a rushed conclusion, and that's an issue an ordinary person will have, because social activity consists of spur-the-moment stuff. An example of that: Mike imitating his voice at the Olympia didn't need to be taken so seriously either, yet Greg weaponized it years later to enforce his arguments.
i love all gym influencers but i hate doucette his voice the exagerated facial features he does and makes a living by shitting on other gym influencers
Training hard is not so easy to describe. You can do more volume, more reps, more weight, you can do it with better tehnique emphasizing the stretched position of the muscles, you can do it with slightly worse tehnique that maximises power output, it's not so black and white. Anyway in terms of energy i think Greg won, but in terms of information then i gotta side with Mike for this one, he knows the modern science better than Greg does. But ultimately it's a matter of perspective of who won overall because well Mike is little younger, more scientific and more open minded, while greg is wiser, not as open minded. Now in terms of hormone balance, that's where Greg also wins by a mile, he's only on HRT, and seems to be a balanced guy, while Mike is not as forgiving because he has a lot of synthetic steroids in his veins that drastically alter his body.
insane guy over pseudo science pinball head that sells fake gains products and thinks seed oil is safe, while ignoring its process (constant heating) which makes it rancid quite often when its sold?
Who “won” this online beef?
Mike.
@@Chris-xd9uv how
greg
Coooooooooaaaaaacchhh Greg!
I think Mike is way more creepier
Can’t wait for Greg’s response to Craig’s response to Mike’s response to Greg’s response to Mike 🔥
Lmfao its satirical but so true 😂
Greg gonna respond harder than last time
It’s sad. He actually used to put out good content and not drama
Cookbook!
😂
Greg and mike having a secret gay relationship harder than last time
Lol 😅
The twist we all knew but didn’t want to accept…
Harder in the ass this time!
Hate and love are pretty close.
They are definitely gay
"titans" with combined height of 3 leprechauns and a tomato
good one.
Aren’t they like 5’7 or so. Thats Average height where I live
@@kennypowers1945where’s that Hobbit Town
@@Nocturnal808 💀
To grow tall needs 0 effort, so who cares ?
Mike mentioned Greg twice. Greg has made ten videos about Mike and calls him a sociopath every other video. That should tell you everything you need to know.
that says literally nothing about the debate and the rivalry XD
Greg goes on about the subject matter and Mike resorts to personal attacks. Mike made it personal, and I still think Coach Greg does not give 2 fooks about the beef, he's just capitalizing off of it.
well Greg's whole channel is drama so its fitting don't you think?
u thought u did something
Your a "doctor" Mike groupie, maybe the doctor will let you rub oil on his giant bald cranium
Greg Doucette lost all credibility when he decided to shill Turkesterone and respond to people that were (correctly) responding that there's no evidence it has any effect on muscle growth or strength was "wELL wHeRe'S yOuR eViDeNcE iT dOeSn'T wOrK??", which is the same disingenuous logic that he himself has criticized other people for
The science/studies says Turk works, what are you on about bro. I tried Ecdysterone(which is weaker than Turkesterone), and that shtt worked for me. Greg is a real one, you just can't handle the truth
I remember Sean nalewanyj called him out on his Turk bs and he went ballistic defending it and saying it doesn't give you an itchy butt hole lmao. Probably the hardest I've laughed in a while.
@@devilselbow ik what you're talking about that was Derek dissecting his pre workout. Sean made a short with coach Greg specifically mentioning Sean and how he said Turk gives you an itchy butthole and Greg was literally foaming from the mouth.
@@devilselbow Sorry it wasn't Turk it was beta aline that Sean was clowning on and Greg was defending lol.
@@shoobzy3431 Didn't Mike say stupid things like sugar is not harmful lol?
Dr Mike's advice has definitely helped a few of my workouts and all Greg has ever given me is a headache
Coach Greg gives out great advice, especially for newbs. No way you actually watch Greg videos and didn't learn anything
@@executioner_ecgbert884 same here, I honestly preferred it when he was a calmer easy going guy instead of being a clickbaiting bully.
@@ShongololoTottie-ou9kg He may give out great advice but his whiny shouting voice is very annoying.
@@ShongololoTottie-ou9kglike Turk makes you put on muscle like steroids? That advice? Or how the calories for maingaining keeps changing
i dont mind the way he talk tho he gave amazing advice (for me) it realy dpend on people
Wait so to be clear, greg "wanted to learn" in the debate but called mike a mega pussy when recording a video afterwards? Totally not two faced.
Did you not pay attention? That video was before the interview
@@sirnetflix7162 Yeah, the guy makes video trying to get clout to sell more of his "things".
@@sirnetflix7162 The point still stands. Name-calling and using terms like "mega pussy" one moment, and then going into a debate with that person you called those things pretending to be all nice as if you didn't just talk mad shit about that individual, that kind of behaviour is two-faced by definition.
Also worth mentioning that Mike went into that debate more aggressive as he'd previously debated Joel Seidman and was criticised for not going hard enough on him.
@@Uploaded1995 its called a persona
I personally do not think they hate each other. But the algorithm supports negativity so they'll take advantage of it.
Bingo
Mike has alot of reasons to dislike Greg - supplement scammer (turkesterone etc), big ego, clout chasing, releasing many video ragging on Mike. Mike himself hasn't put out tons of videos on Greg but in todays world, the person who who screams loudly tends to get more followers.
I think Mike Hates Greg. I don't think Greg hates anyone.
@@abner2193i use turk and its the best supp ive ever tried lol
Yes they do. You dont call someone you dont hate a “two faced sociopath”
Gregs content strategy is to be controversial and to flamboyantly criticize others to get a reaction (good or bad) and draw attention to his content and channel. However when people clap back at Greg he takes the low and humble route and tries to make the criticism sound childish and unfair.
thats not the humble route but i agree with the rest of your comment
@@bigbangattack97 Greg likes others to think it's humble. Dr. Mike accurately calls it out as being two faced, which it is and Greg knows it.
Facts
Nah, he has said multiple times and shown view counts for videos where he doesn't do the voice and the drama. Views drop off so even though people say they don't want that they really do. As for his normal voice, he literally uses that on ever podcast or interview he does outside of his channel.
@@DrHDoofenshmirtzphd It's his right to be a drama youtuber and start crap if he wants, but obviously it's other people's right to think he's a pos.
Bodybuilders: we're the manliest men.
Also bodybuilders: bitching like highschool girls.
Also bodybuilders have enough hormones running through their body that they are basically reliving puberty.
On internet everyone fights😂
Their entire profession is based on how they look, makes sense when you think about it.
The juice makes them emotional
It's called drama and it gets a lot of attention. And for them attention is money. I doubt that they actually care much
I don't know. Calling someone's training being a pussy way of doing it, then coming on to a debate after that all agreeable and cordial seems disingenuous.
Wow, he is such a moron for puting on a persona to get more views as he makes a living of it and actualy acting like a decent human being when it matters. I hate how he didnt do what Mike assumed he would without actually knowing anything about the guy.
Oh, it more than seems that way.
That’s mikes point about disliking Greg so much
@@mr.m4524That's the definition of two faced. It doesn't matter if he's "a nice person when it matters". When you publicly say someone trains like a p***y and then try to act all cool and buddy buddy you're going to come off as disingenuous and fake. He's like a reverse Jon Jones
online persona thing works for gregs first video about mike but making 20 videos talking shit about mike it's not persona anymore@@mr.m4524
Mike vs Greg is basically Bro Science Vs Science. If Greg didn't shill out that Turktestrone stuff I could kind of respect him. But Mike is right, Greg does play two faced a lot and I also hate people like that.
I think the audience are different, one of the first channels I watched when I started working out was Jeff Nipard and man was it complicated, I didn’t and still don’t know shit. I just wanted to look better than before. Now I know I just need to train harder than last time.
He constantly plays on drama, his whole channel is based about picking a random person that is getting views and then making drama about how they are doing something wrong and making it seem like he cares, then he screams the whole video and tries to sell cookbook and supplements many of which are overpriced. Most people who are lazy in the gym will be lazy either way not to mention that most don't watch videos of either of them, if a person is deeply invested into gaining as much progress then you get this guy screaming "go harder" which is worth nothing whilst Mike makes good jokes and explains things and debunks things with actual proof.
@@Isaiaswolf66 Bruh..., if going to the gym and tracking couple of things is very complicated, I am sorry. Greg just doesn't bring anything new to the table.
More like "science" vs real experience. Exercise science is as much of a real science as psychology
His turkesterone is a scam! It's a total disaster
Egos on both sides but Mike is nowhere near the narcissist that Greg is. I stopped watching Greg a while back. Drama at every turn, now Mike on the other hand has some solid advice often sprinkled with self depreciating humor, and (mostly) no drama.
Deprecating
@@FlarkusChunswen thanks , have fun reviewing the other 577 comments' grammar.
But Greg likes to play the clown character so you already know when he's talking or selling BS, and even if he says that he's always right, you know he knows you know he doesn't. Mike on the other hand uses humor too much just so he can lower your guard, and right after that he hides behind a veneer of objectivity to sell you his own very biased line of thought.
Who do you prefer (i like both) it's up to you, but if both were scammers, one is the type of scammer who charms you with expansiveness and is very pushy with you, and the other presents himself as foolish and harmless in a light-hearted way
@@FlarkusChunswen Legend says, you're still correcting grammar.
@@yokatta-f Greg is for the average American, Mike is for the more educated on the planet.
If Greg really didn't care and was taking the high road, he would not have made like 10 videos after feeling snubbed once.
He especially would not have made videos in bad faith trying to pretend to be concerend about Mike Israetel health, something he could have just reached out to Mike in private about.
"Concerned" he basically threw everything Mike said back in his face and used it to villify him further.
The people should know, not to make the same mistakes as Mike, Greg educates, if you listen
@@ShongololoTottie-ou9kg except Mike explicitely tells people his experience and lets them decide for themselves wether they should or shouldn't do what he does. After everything he's said about his experience its safe to say the majority of his viewers wouldnt go through with TRT and whatever else he's on.
All Greg does is shit on Mike to seem holier than thou.
Nah when he called him a sociopath after tryna embarrass him + his roid rage he lost
Guys we finally got the Kendrick and Drake of the fitness community
lol. That’s a neat comparison! Greg literally on one of his videos said he is Team Drake!! 😂
Would make sense he's from Canada @@mattz.7761
@@mattz.7761 what an idiot 😂
Greg is Drake, Mike is Kendrick and Jeff Nippard is JCole.
@@K1214-m9w so true 🤣
Doctor Mike admitting the side effects of steroid use is actually a good thing. Cautionary tales are needed as well
Greg and his shietty misinformation about turkesterone....
What do you expect from a guy who's entire catalogue of advice is backed by "just trust me bro"
@@Meeces55 not just that but also reverts to "source?" while he himself barely uses them, and if he does he specifically picks one that obviously supports his argument like the seed oil study. yes the study was correct on the ingredients safety.. but how is cooking oil made? constant heating to make it palatable, which means seed oils are in most cases more rancid than others, cause bloating and digestion issues.
he easily falls for "Lying by omission" which nearly all media loves to do. only fools appeal to power, ffs we were told "have a cig" when you had a bad cough, or "have a radium pill" when you were wanting to avoid baby making which just made you mutated and infertile in the 50s
Calling someone a pussy because he/she has 2-3 RIR is dead giveaway. Coach Greg compensates for his lack of something, whilst Dr. Mike shows true science of training for people, who want to become stronger and more fit, not pro bodybuilders who sacrifice their whole life and health for this sport. That's my point of view.
Greg's content is specifically for newbies, very easy to understand. How hard should you train? Harder than last time.... easy
I do Weight Training really hardcore, all Sets take into failure (0 RiR). I even do Cardio right after that Weight Training session. I never have any problem. I still make awesome gains. Greg's style is only for true Athlete and people with great genetics.
@@ShongololoTottie-ou9kgbut his content is false many times.
1. Turkesterone
2. Maingainig (he can't even define it)
3. He puts words into people's mouth that they didn't even say
@@vb2806 What's the problem qith maingaining? It's just saying you shouldn't get fat by eating junk food in a bulk then losing it. I guess there is no point in gaining extra weight unless you have like 5 pourcent bf then yeah come back to normal bf and gain muscle. For the average person there is no point in gaining then losing a lot of weight.
I think most of Mike's resentment probably just stems from the fact that this whole drama is something he is not interested to be a part of. For Greg this is mostly just business. He makes his living by creating drama. Mike doesnt, yet he is still part of the same fitness sphere where the drama is drummed up.
Mike is the one clearly creating the drama though, both online with toxic comments he makes about Greg and irl when he met Greg and make a fool of him. Greg is the one trying to deescalate and puzzled why Mike hates him so much. I think the real reason mike hates him is cuz he's just an arrogant "im a doctor" type who resents anyone who isn't a "doctor" giving out gym advice yet alone gym advice that mike himself disagrees with.
@@mab5710 Mike has done videos on and with numerous guys who aren't doctors and praised their training or programming. Jeff Nippard comes to mind. Your logic doesn't work.
@@mab5710 "Mike is the one clearly creating the drama". Huh? Greg put up multiple videos criticizing Mike. Did Mike do the same as well? Are we watching the same dudes?
@@vincee3005videos correctly criticising mikes delusion over his bodybuilding comp/prep isn’t t “drama” tho. All the other “drama” topics Mike brought up.
@@crycrcfyhf8862 it is if he puts Mike on his video multiple times for the same reason. He even made a video on Mike even though Mike announced his retirement on bodybuilding. The guy is fixated on making sure we know that Mike is "delusional" on his bodybuilding endeavors that it's astounding. And it works clearly since we are talking about it.
Mike aged 30 years in 4. Holy crap!
For real lol
......roids
Nah, he looked like that even 8 years ago when he was making videos in JTS. He has changed face hair and hair that changes a lot.
when?
That’s what high dose steroids does to you.
Cambridge Dictionary definition of "two-faced": 'Someone who is two-faced is not sincere, saying unpleasant things about you to other people while seeming to be pleasant when they are with you.' That's very applicable to Greg calling Mike a "Mega Pussy" in a video and then going into the interview acting like he's just a nice guy there to have a chat, and just trying to make people forget that he started out with name calling. That's being two-faced.
another dictionary word to use on greg: lying by omission, he just cant get enough of it like seed oil "studies" he mentioned (constant heating to remove bitter taste can make it often rancid, the ingredients are indeed safe, but not the end product)
Greg alone on a video is a very different Greg than when he is interacting with someone.
When he is making a video talking smack about someone, he is in fact interacting with them. The fact that he freely admits to intentionally being a dick in his videos for cloud doesn't excuse them, and it gives his "victims" every right to mirror that energy in real life.
@@nocbvideos6458
It does give them the right, but why should Greg on the other hand be obligated to continue with the same energy?
@@ToveriJuri Yeah, and people expect Greg to shout at everyone when doing a podcast?! lol like a 2 hour podcast of Greg constantly yelling lmao😂😂😭😭 that's just dumb
Therapist: Mustache Mike isn't real, he can't hurt you.
Mustache Mike:
🥺
It‘s moustache.
Gossip harder than last time
Battle of the short kings!
This is like a third graders understanding of their drama. Mike is jealous of Greg? I think it’s possible that Greg is simply dishonest and annoying to listen to lmao
Or that Greg danced on the corpse of Mikes personal dreams to “prove” that he’s right, and masked it with concern trolling. I’d hate the guy too if I was Mike.
I can understand why Mike hates Greg mainly coz Greg is an enititled, narcissictic man child, I even prefer Mike over him because of that fact.
Greg and Mike are the same height, and you do what Mike does, personal attacks when you can't argue facts.
@@ShongololoTottie-ou9kg maybe if Greg wasn’t or didn’t act like a man child and would hear out the other side of someone’s story I would take him more seriously.
@@lewlewlaser037 greg is a pathetic man and mike became what he hated (a shill for products, but so is greg)
I hate that overconfident smug "humm hum, source?" as if Greg himself doesnt pick sources that are false 9/10 times like seed oils. yes indeed hes right, the ingredients are safe.. but what happens when you constantly heat the same oil? it becomes rancid, and if you dont heat treat oil its too bitter and disgusting to consume. all cooking oils are heat treated
this is called "Lying by omission" which makes up around 99% of all media lies. it makes you technically allways right, you dont have to be responsible for lying, and you can concinve people with whatever you want as long as you have prestige like a collage backing you up (pretty obvious bribing)
@@ShongololoTottie-ou9kg What does height have to do with this comment at all? Greg being a man child has nothing to do with his height, but it has everything to do with the way he acts. He stirs up RUclips drama for views and money just to turn around and act like this humble guy who only cares about the facts. Just because you're gullible enough to fall for it doesn't mean everyone is.
@@drphilsranch6782 this, right here, facts
People (myself included) subscribe to RP precisely *because* the content is so dense and in depth. A pretty dumbass assertion by Greg that it's somehow unhelpful because, what? we're too stupid? I like Greg, but he's out of his depth here, pro card or no.
Nah he has a point. The obesity rates are rising, and alarmingly increasing amount of people are barely even exercising. Mike content might be useful for people who already in the right headspace for fitness-oriented lifestyle, but a lot more people just need someone to yell at them to train harder (or train at all) and that for controlling weight focusing on calories is far more productive than any fad diets most people won't be able to keep up with. Lifestyle change is easier when it's simple to start.
So essentially the target audience for these two is pretty much different and there isn't that much overlap.
@@ToveriJuri I would say: No. I'm not interessted in some dude who yells at me for no reason, because then I'm learning jack shit. Give me a good explanation why A works and why A might or might not be superior to B and I'm actually interested.
But getting yelled at with "YOU TRAIN LIKE A PUSSY!!!!", doesn't really help.
And let's be honest, it's not that dense and complicated. If you're getting (academically) confused by what Mike is saying then maybe take a book with you to read in between sets. Greg complains that Mike is letting newbies off training like p***ies, but if you keep progressively overloading your training then it doesn't much matter where you start because you're going to reach failure within a year. The most important thing for new lifters is to learn their lifts, learn their bodies, and come back again for more.
@@nichtsicher422
Excuses! There are plenty of resources where people explain how and why different types of exercise works. Why has it taken you this long to start exercising then? You say you need a good explanation well you've had an easily accessible good explanation literally at your fingertips for way over a decade.
If you are already past that point and need more granular information than "Train harder than last time" and "calories in calories out", then you weren't the target audience of the yelling in the first place.
@@ToveriJuri someone overeating and/or not exercising doesn't mean they're incapable of understanding logic or science
To be fair when Greg roasted stopping before failure, he was probably thinking of all the weak men (90% of audience) who go to the gym and get no gains and stop when it hurts
Dr Mike actually won the beef, people just think he lost because his tan wasn't good
The reference to the IG post 😂😂😂
I think Mike won because if the Cheerios and Gatorade... Oh wait!.
This video seems pretty biased in favor of Greg. Not sure why you downplay how Greg's whole online persona is to stir up as much toxic drama as he can.
they gay for each other
Facts
Why are every yt men gay?
And who cares if they are..
@@girl.anachronism5639 we care because we encourage it 🗣🗣
Greg > Mike but they both have good videos
Idk who won this beef but Mikes organ health definitely lost.
They both have their strengths and weaknesses😂 and both are 5’4 big bodies
I like them both for different reasons.
Same bro but im noticing that greggs fanbase are just saying mikes jealous. Its makes gregg fanbase look weak.
He is though, he never will have iffb pro card
Agreed, Greg and Mike both are good btw Greg is Lil bit old school+ he has actual experience and IFFB pro card + He has masters in body mechanics and also taught kids. Meanwhile, Mike is PHD btw he lacks way to deal and explain or discuss with people. Mike is basically my way or highway and greg is like okay i would like know more about ur way excercise too and let's see what we can get benefitted from it.
Agreed, Greg's yelling motivates me at the gym, aespecially if I don't want to go or being lazy, and Mike's scientific approach helps me to know what I'm doing and his voice is cooler
they're both annoying most of the time though. all this 'science-based' focus, as if most people who go to public gyms are trying to be top tier athletes or bodybuilders lol
Personally, both of them make decent insights. Most times, Greg's more on the fitness drama side.
With Mike though, his takes on fitness may come of too complex to any average gym goer can muster.
The only issue with Mike is somewhat letting Greg get to his head.
cause greg is a known snake oil salesman
Indeed he is. Don't forget hypocrite either.
Every "body builder" selling or even endorsing supplements is selling snake oil then.
@@dqreps bro how do you have time to answer every fucking comment, just exposing greg lmao. it takes so long to find and like all of your comments xD
@@Horoldenfacts dude gotta be Mike alt account 😂or he just obsessed with Mike
@@isthtsho2444cope 😂
Mike pros :
1.Has phd in sports science
2.Explains science based training
Mike cons :
1.Jealous of greg doucette
2.Killing himself by trying for a pro card
3. Sometimes a bit too arrogant
Greg pros :
1.Has both science and non science advice
2.Open and honest
3.has a pro card and world records in lifts
4.has a masters in kinesiology( study of bio mechanics)
Greg cons :
1.Ecdy builder
2.Turk builder
3.Sometimes just a little bit too drama in the name of education
Thats all.
Greg also got a masters in kinesiology brotha
Will add it to the list sir
@@swaroopnarayanan1898did he actually say himself that he's jealous of Greg? Jealous of what? That would seem strange as Mike even has more followers on here.
He is jealous of his ifbp pro card @@dqreps
Least biased pros and cons list on the internet
They're both caught up in toxic social media BS, and they don't have the strength or humility to put their egos aside. It's childish.
or maybe it's intentional for the publicity
Not really. Greg openly admits he feeds the drama for views. He's never hidden that fact nor the fact that his over the top persona on his channel is for views. He even points out how non drama videos and videos where he speaks with his normal voice don't get the views so even when people complain about the drama and the voice really they don't want him to stop or they'd have watched the other videos more. Not as sure about Mike. He seems like he might actually be taking it personally.
If you actually watch Greg’s videos, you’d realize he’s just giving sound advice.
@@camiloorsini9674 I watch them and his channel is about anything but advice
@@camiloorsini9674and if you actually watch Mike's videos is the same? Both just have different opinions and methodologies and everything should be taken with nuance?
greg is a master manipulator. he makes countless videos angrily slandering dr. mike then whenever they actually talk greg turns into mr. nice guy so he can makes videos playing the victim.
AINT NO WAY, THAT'S ME SQUATTING AT 9:12. AWESOME VIDEO BY THE WAY MAN KEEP IT UP
Greg doucette calling out somebody for steroids is like Chong calling somebody a pot head
Not really. Whatever you might think of Greg he was right about Mike's steroid use for the pro card. Mike even himself talked about the severe sight effects he got. If you have difficult time controlling it, have serious side effects and still feel compelled to use it that's basically junkie behavior and if at all possible, it's time to stop.
@@ToveriJuri I think you missed my point
@@bradmaxwell6668
No not really. Being a steroid user himself, doesn't invalidate his views or criticism of steroid use of others particularly when he has consistently recommended caution with them, which Mike seemingly didn't practice.
@@ToveriJuri so if a crack head is brow beating somebody for being a crack head it’s fine because he’s right? That’s a very stupid notion
@@bradmaxwell6668
If someone takes amphetamines responsibly, it's stupid for them to judge junkies who abuse them?
I think the recent escalation of Mike against Greg is because he is friend with Joni Shreve. It's no secret that both Joni and Mike are buddies and Joni had his issues with Greg in the past 2023, so it's only normal that his dislike towards Greg would grow. Not that I am defending Greg, I prefer Mike's content, just my 2 cents on the matter.
Didn't greg make 5 videos saying basically shit all because he was butt hurt about Mike's impressions, while mike said nothing?
Who would you rather look like Mike, Joni or Greg?
@@oscarpinillacastro5893Mike
Why squash it just to talk shit again
@@oscarpinillacastro5893 Considering they all train and work hard. It's just down to genetics. We can't copy their physiques, but we will achieve our own potential and have different shapes if we follow their advice.
Greg's a grifting shill. Mike is a science-based expert trying to help people. It's pretty simple.
3:21 I'm dead lol. The perfect clip to sum up Greg.
Had me cracking up 😂
Cookbook 🗣
$200? 😂😂😂
that shit is so annoying lmao
Mike’s own explanation of how he came into that first debate ironically makes his behavior in the debate look worse
How? It just shows how scumy greg acts
I was thinking about the same thing,like how is his explanation worse than his behavior in the debate
@@Erik-zo8gu how is it “scummy” to come into a debate as yourself? He came into the debate entirely calm and professional
@@truthprevails8836 at least to me, it shows he came into it full of misplaced anger. He was never there to debate the material but to attack Greg. There is no world where you are in the right or in a good frame of mind if that’s how you’re approaching things
@@benreed9952 imagine entering a debate, after making drama videos about a person and their views, than realizing you can't win and than you're just start back paddeling and playing innocent and nice guy who is the victim in this situation. How is this behaviour, that can be seen by greg time and time again not scummy?
Greg was the first fitness channel I got into when I started going to the gym. He gives great advice for a beginner. That said, now that I want better advice, Mike’s the main channel I listen to (along with others, don’t really watch Greg anymore)
If you've never trained to failure, how will you know how many repetitions you have in reserve
That was Greg's point!
Both were right but one spoke for the average Joe and the other (at the time) for advanced lifters and I think they would agree on 95% of everything they share, but it all depends to whom the message is intended for.
Despite everything, I like them both ! :D
To failure is literally you simply cant get that last rep no matter how you push and that's why Greg is 100% right.
Right I like both but greggs fan base are losers man look at the comments😂
@@reiudfgq3vrh34ur he’s not 100% right because 70% of people think they go to failure, but they actually haven’t even gotten there yet. Thats why science based lifting combined is the best of both worlds
I've rarely trained to failure (except last week of meso) but I still see my numbers increase. I dont 'push' myself to failure but will hit my goal for that week, and as long as that number increases week on week, nothing else matters. I dont need to min-max the shit out of this, its not a sprint.
There is also a massive mentality issue when all you do is just rely on 'training to failure'. There have been many a times where I feel like I've hit my failure point after 12 reps but I knew statiscally this wasnt the failure point because 3 days ago I hit 20 reps on that set so that reinvigorates my will to keep pushing (and will stop at 20 or my rep goal and not push further). A new person who doesnt know just how much they can progress in their meso wont do well if they dont know when to stop even if they can push a few more reps.
Both greg and mike have valid points, neither are wrong or correct in their methods as long as it works for people using them.
@@Gekkco
70% of people just want to look good and feel good.
Going to absolute failure of 0 RIR has no benefit over 1-2 RIR.
If you’re a competitor then how you’re workout changes.
I only see progress after i stopped "train harder" and "maingaining", its Greg's way to trap their audience in the novice phase so that they can keep buying his supplements. Greg is a bad person.
Was going to say, train harder doesn't mean much beyond knowing what training to failure is for you. Greg seems like a former pro-athelete who had a huge amount of talent, has been training hard since they were young and are effectively ahead of a lot of people just by that combination of two things. Train harder won't get you better results, you need to know what to do and how to do. Also, maingaining doesn't seem to have much evidence for it. You certainly don't need to eat huge amounts of food and get fat if you're a normal person just a relatively small caloric surplus will get you there. alternatively, if you want to cut as a normal person, a relatively small reduction in calories and ensuring your exercise levels are the same will get you there. It's not that hard but someone like Greg doesn't want you to know that.
Got to admit Greg is the first person I've watched but when I was growing more in fitness and knowledge I now also watched Mike Israetel.
I'm all in agreement with Mike, I'm sorry a simplistic approach is nice and all but to reduce essentially an entire field of science to just train harder is just too simple for me.
Greg appeals to the lowest common denominator
Mike is the man! He got me back into weight training at age of 44 after almost giving up after lifting for 20 yrs then almost giving up! Big ups Mike 🫡
Greg’s voice sounds like a raging gay Gilbert Gottfried
Mikes fingers I think are most likely from being a brown belt in bjj, it’s pretty much a staple in gi jiu jitsu
Mike's methodology works very well for me as a new lifter and previously injured person. Once I feel like I've rehabilitated that part of my body I'll push harder if I think my body can take it, but so far it seems completely valid.
I don't care about their beef. I only go to fitness channels for fitness tips. I take advice from different influencers and make up my own plan. Neither one of them are wrong. I've used both of their advice...along with lil known fitness influencers. I've made great gains from taking advice from different influencers. I don't take a side, I don't even have a favorite influencer. I urge anyone else to do the same.
Funny to hear Greg complain about Mike impersonating his voice when he in his complaint video makes it clear that he himself is making a voice when he's screeching
A walking, talking, screeching hypocrite.
Can we have video of Joey Swoll and Noel Deyzel yelling at each other "no, YOU are amazing and professional!" ?
Mikes advice is better sorry to say. I like them both and they both seem like nice guys but as someone who has injured myself and known many other people who have done the same mikes advice is was better for the average person who’s life isn’t completely evolved around weight lifting.
Was going to say, I know he's mostly into drama now but Greg Doucette's advice is basically only applicable to someone with an iron will an determination to push yourself and has years of quality training and conditioning under their belt.
However dr. Mike feels about Greg and his obsession with drama, I still learn from Mike and the way he teaches and conveys what he knows
Simple. Because Greg is annoying, fake in person and even though he agrees with Mike on 95% of things he'll disagree on specific things because being a drama queen makes money. This is honestly as objective as it gets
You mean: As objective as you get. Many in the comments have had much better balanced responses than fanboi prose.
@@vlada What about what I said is not true?
@@ThillyThauthageth everything. he is not fake. he just changed style of presenting info. his early videos was long and calm. just go look older videos. even greg admited it in few interviews. cuz his screaming and other drama videos what makes his channel sucessfull. and if it that annoys you is your problem not his or mine...you dont need to hate it.
i didnt know that having disagreement makes one a drama queen. Greg's very open about being a salesman, but repeatedly makes an emphasis about being honest and giving a new viewpoint when people doubt him. Saying annoying and fake are as subjective as it gets
@jernej.skoflek exactly he is changing the way he presents to make it more dramatic than last time and bring the clicks with his fake parrot voice because it works. I've been watching Greg for ages he knows what he's talking about but it's so obvious he's chasing the drama with his daily videos on Mike amd Sam Sulek
Greg had his chance to be the bigger man (lmao) once Mike gave up his dream of getting a pro card. But instead of being respectful, he kicked him while he was down. Greg pushing his snake oil Turkesterone bull cemented it for me.
But fug it it's youtube drama between 2 guys trying to make money, so who really gives a shit
It's clear to me that Mike is not in control of his emotions, but i still believe him when it comes to saying Greg is twofaced. Greg's act is of being a humble guy that critizes others purely because he wishes them well. I feel like it's the most convenient persona for someone to take, if they want to do drama for a living. If you claim that you going after other people, comes from a place of humbleness, trying to educate and help everyone improve, then you have an open road and allowed to say anything about anyone, right? The harder Mike lashes out, the more Greg benefits from acting more and more and more humble. The result is Mike being humiliated, and that's exactly what Greg intended.
I dont think Greg made videos telling Mike to stop going for IFBB pro card because of wishing him well in terms of health and longevity. If you genuinely want something like that for another person, you can privately talk to them in a dead serious way, set aside everything if you're such a humble guy, right? But wouldn't that be such a waste of content? Instead Greg made some videos that basically showed Mike as being incompetent in several ways to 100s of thousands of viewers right before that important bodybuilding show happened. This absurd of "Oh im so concerned for his health, the public must do something about this!". It's not goodwill, it's drama and engagement.
Even if i'm glad to be informed of the subtle stuff Greg could tell, it wasnt entirely "educational", it was more like "insider info" and rumor type content. Im sure many others feel the same blurry line between informative and gossip/rumor. When Mike hurts his own image by confessing he has severe anxiety disorder for the purpose of educating ppl on the use of steroids, that's informational, when Greg starts telling to a large public that Mike has major vein trombosis or nearing KIDNEY failure (both of which are pretty damn close to dying), that is filthy gossip (He's not a damn medical doctor!).
And i've seen videos from Greg in the past where he takes someone else's ironic/satirical content, and makes a video out of it acting like that person is being serious. Or sometimes acts as if he doesn't understand the source content in general. There's nothing authentic or humble about that, there's an explicit goal to drive engagement. I'll probably be reminded of this drama every time i see another Greg video and he's misinterpreting the source again.
Greg's content has shifted more towards the drama side of YT over the years. He even tried to dip his toes in the manosphere space before it imploded. I think he saw just how much he can benefit from a controversy (Athlete X drama), and has been instigating/trying to beef with popular RUclipsrs ever since. Initially it felt like he was trying to logically pick apart the other person's advice, but over the years it turned into drama for drama's sake. Now he is a multimillionaire so ig the cash needs to keep flowing.
I agree with you on everything. I think Greg is a stereotypical former pro-athelete who knows he can't or won't go back to getting a real job and minding his own business so he think it's cool to talk trash about people but when someone called him out on it he was the manlet he looks like. TBH I think Greg pushing his cook book and Turk builder that don't work really make him look worse than Dr Mike will ever look calling out Greg.
While Greg may be right that Dr Mike speaks over people's intelligence levels, he needs to understand, not everyone wants to watch whatever that persona is he has on YT. I'd rather watch Dr Mike and understand every other thought than listen to Greg screech and scream at the camera. "Oh no, Dr. Mike doesn't have his pro card!" And? There's hundreds of bodybuilders without pro cards and coaches that didn't win championships as players, but rather as coaches.
mike has a phd in sports science greg has one in kinesiology i would trust sports science over kinesiology when it comes to muscle growth
Greg Douchette hella lost, if only because of the sound of his voice.
Gregg making video after video about how Mike needs stop going for the pro card for health reasons then gloating about him stopping going for the pro card is a shit head behavior.
I really just hate the sound of Greg’s knockoff Gilbert Gottfried voice
I have lost respect for Mike in recent months....
Why just out of curiosity
@@ghengiskhan9308critiqued ronnie, tries to get ifbb pro card by ruining his health, doesnt use his own advice in his own training, and growing ego for me. His content changed.
Same here. Absolutely appalling example to follow.
@@ghengiskhan9308 simply he is running out of content so he is starting to spew a lot of bullshit
greg is having beef. mike said one thing and greg hasn't let go
Yeah but where does our boy Hemingway fit into this?
Blahahahahahahaha
Innnnerrrr ciiiiteeeee
Greg is overly simplified
Mike is overly complicated
Both are cringe AF
The butthurt you just caused..😂
Wouldn't even put it like that I've watched them both for a while. Mike isn't over complicated unless you have an iq of 50 even tho it's science based lifting I do find that I learn more from Mike and some of the methods he talks about I have benefitted from. Greg is a snake oil salesmen enough said really training harder than last time doesn't last forever and you can do it day in day out or week in week out his advice to maingain is also terrible. He strikes me as someone who wants to make money from fitness and is more worried about that then putting out quality fitness advice.
@@ghengiskhan9308
Mantras like "calories in calories" out and train harder than last time are simple and easy to understand for people who barely even train and can't be bothered at all with any macros.
His advice is overly generalized and not very optimal, but if the alternative is a completely unhealthy lifestyle, then simple ideas that do work for regular people is great. You have to realize that most people aren't as autistic about these things some of us and can't be bothered "minutia"
@@ToveriJuri because theyre easy to understand doesnt mean much. lets really look at the details. Greg is a snake oil salesmen and a fitness drama channel. Not saying that all his advice is bullshit but he only cares about clout at this point. If general people understand Greg or Mike doesnt say if their advice is right or not. People can take "train harder then last time" and misunderstand then fuck up their training but that doesnt tell us if that advice or mintra is right or wrong or useful. We have to look at the details.
Trainer Winny the goat
I think I'm on Greg on this one, Mike could have roid rage and be jealous of his pro card
I agree with you sir
Or maybe he just doesn't see eye-to-eye with him. Who would have thought it was even possible LOL
This comment is so stupid and such a straw man and I watch both
@@dqrepsright these people are weird 😂
@@dqreps
Mike doesn’t see eye to eye with Greg.
But he’s also killing himself and going to leave his wife as a widow.
That isn’t the win you think it is.
-
He can dislike Greg and take care of his own body.
Mike doesn’t need to take decades of his life.
Actions speak louder than words. Mike releases all kinds of "non-drama" content that can be informative whereas Greg on the other side... Screamy whiney WHY?
Nobody thought douchette won surely
So he's two faced...because he plays a character? Dr. Mike's argument falls apart once you consider the context of RUclips as a platform. In an interview (I really wish I remembered where I'll link it later) where Greg talks about Talking shit on RUclips, then being chill in real life with each other. He talks about how Dr. Mike came up to him and talked his shit, and while Greg was expecting him to talk after the ambush, Dr. Mike just left.
Greg already got the ipad out on his set watching this video recording his response harder than last time.
CODE GREG 15% OFF
Having seen content from both guys i would believe mike 10/10
more drama than last time 😂
😂😂😂😂🔥🔥🔥🔥
2:21 it seems more surprising to me that Doctor Mike had a mustashe 😂
Dr Mike used to say that maingain doesn t work... but recently in one of the colabs they say that it works but dont called it main gain xd
Nuance. It's all in the context
No Greg just changes the definition of maingaining to make it seem like the person he's arguing with agrees with him
Maingaining doesn't work. Period. You'll plateau hard only for greg to shill his new supplement
@@joeoconnor8344textbook charlatan behavior. You can never be wrong if your definitions are nebulous enough lol.
Greg can't even define maingainig. Sometimes it's 30 cal surplus and sometimes 300. Greg is a crook.
I found both helpful. It wasn't until Mike I understood what a calorie actually is at a scientific level. I had always learned the definition in school but Mike's explanation was when it clicked.
And it was Greg who instilled in me to actually push harder. He was the one to tell me more about how to ACTUALLY track my intake, how the box labels really are and what assumptions to make and not make.
The fitness space, and more importantly the general public needs both of these giants. Before these guys I was limping diet to diet struggling to loose weight and falling for fad diets
Mike's content is not difficult to understand. Like do people really not know what tension or load are? That's basic vocabulary, and requires very little critical thinking to understand in the context of hypertrophy.
Most people who watch RUclips fitness aren't elite or advanced lifters. I am an advanced lifter and only watch RUclips fitness for funny content like Eric Bugenhagen or fake natty compilations. If you're watching Mike/Greg/Nippard/BaldOmniMan/any RUclips fitness person for actual workout advice, it is overwhelmingly likely that you are an intermediate or novice lifter. Those lifters most likely have little to no idea of how to judge or assess the information presented by guys like Mike
@@ScruffSt Fitness experience is not related to mental acuity in a way significant enough to shape a person's overall intelligence. I very much doubt that most people do not know what load, tension, strain, or fatigue are. That's basic everyday vocabulary whether you're physically training or not. A novice probably won't be able to correlate that knowledge to their muscles, but that's physical ignorance of their body because they haven't trained before. As they train more that knowledge will become more effective.
So having an understanding of how to exercise properly will be beneficial when implemented even if they cannot feel the direct effect yet. Learning later and having to fix and relearn aspects of training is redundant at best and a waste of time more likely. More knowledge is always better than less.
@WilliamT-ep8cz but experience is very much related to the ability to relate a stimulus to the proper physical response. This is something you nerd types fail to understand. Just because you "know" something, doesn't mean you'll know it when you must apply it. For example you can read about how to build a house and learn all of the theory and science behind building a house, you will definelty know a lot about building a house BUT you will not know jack about actually applying that knowledge in a real uncontrolled setting. I think you just sound like a fan boy and need to take a step back from all this RUclips stuff and just focus on training. Maybe then you'll realize that no matter what nerd stuff these guys tell you on an entertainment platform is most optimal or will give you the most gains doesn't really matter, as training is highly individual and requires more than just some nerd with a degree telling you what is most optimal. Just go train, train consistently and track your training and you will find what works best for you.
To your second point, yes learning to train properly will help, but beyond the bread and butter basics of training like form, linear vs peruodized progression templates, recovery and diet. There isn't much information that is really relevant to a novice or even intermediate lifter that most of these guys say. It's just dumping info on people who can't use it or dont need it and then subsequently suffer from paralysis by analysis by placing this highly specific granular advice by so called professionals on a pedestal. Just lift bro, who cars what some nerd like Dr. Mike says after he tells ypu to add 5lbs to your lifts every so often, to lift with good form and eat and rest well. Thats 90% of lifting right there, everything else is fluff.
@@ScruffSt ah yes us "nerd types" when all else fails pull out the insults.
@ScruffSt good point
All of Greg's content is either him being a drama queen, plugging his cookbook or stalking Sam Sulek.
THEY NEED TO JUST KISS ALREADY
I am somewhat a fan of greg, he's given me all sorts of invaluable information. But I don't think I agree with the following: I don't think Mike's jealous. But I do think that he's possibly fallen into the delusion that Greg is two-faced. I believe Greg was genuine during the interview. Just to clarify, that's my assumption - I could be wrong. Anyway, here's the rest of my thoughts. Greg's online persona is not something you should take so seriously, this guy's not like a parrot in-person. He started making videos like any other person, being their genuine, nervous self. He's what we'd call a normal dude. And a very successful one at that, now. But he's still got his weird quirks. For example, his assumptions in a social setting are sometimes possibly wrong or a rushed conclusion, and that's an issue an ordinary person will have, because social activity consists of spur-the-moment stuff. An example of that: Mike imitating his voice at the Olympia didn't need to be taken so seriously either, yet Greg weaponized it years later to enforce his arguments.
This Mike guy has aged 20.years in the past 5 years. Jesus...
For real man! I watched some of his older videos, The man's face is soo old now
Crazy from full of life to neurotic blob
@@NN-mo6xw lmao
The only thing that is consistent of mike is his head becoming bigger than last time
i love all gym influencers but i hate doucette his voice the exagerated facial features he does and makes a living by shitting on other gym influencers
hes like a little squirming worm
Training hard is not so easy to describe. You can do more volume, more reps, more weight, you can do it with better tehnique emphasizing the stretched position of the muscles, you can do it with slightly worse tehnique that maximises power output, it's not so black and white. Anyway in terms of energy i think Greg won, but in terms of information then i gotta side with Mike for this one, he knows the modern science better than Greg does. But ultimately it's a matter of perspective of who won overall because well Mike is little younger, more scientific and more open minded, while greg is wiser, not as open minded. Now in terms of hormone balance, that's where Greg also wins by a mile, he's only on HRT, and seems to be a balanced guy, while Mike is not as forgiving because he has a lot of synthetic steroids in his veins that drastically alter his body.
Dr Mike is dope and I like his content. But I’m with Greg on this one.
I don't mike being an asshole to Greg because Greg is a snake oil salesmen and has no interest giving out proper fitness advice
Greg is just pissed because he didnt get an interview on Diary Of A CEO! Lol😅
Mike > Greg. Done.
insane guy over pseudo science pinball head that sells fake gains products and thinks seed oil is safe, while ignoring its process (constant heating) which makes it rancid quite often when its sold?
greg being mad about the screech is kinda crazy i mean he literally bash’s mike for a living but takes offense when mike makes fun of his voice lol
Both cool dudes if you ask me. Love both their videos. They agree on way more than you'd think with all the beef. Great video! :)
expect a new greg video soon
Waiting for a new video harder than last time