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In Bungie's canon, rampancy in AI is much closer to how its portrayed in Marathon where an AI reaches full sentience and behaves just like humans, as well as their pitfalls. This is what happens to Mendicant Bias, and how it's explained in Contact Harvest too The golden (sometimes white) secret elites in Reach were also called BOBs

In post Bungie Halo, there still are some cool references/observations you can find in the series (even if they aren't as concrete). An example is the security helmet in Infinite was specially designed to locate/defend locations against A.I. Another example is lore about the Drinniol/Sharquoi, in Marathon it is mentioned that a Phfor scientist tried to implement a cybernetic implant into the species but failed. In halo the Foreunners did the same thing but were successful. A last example is some Halo Infinite concept art of The Harbringer, depicting her wearing a cloak that gives her a striking resemblance to the S'pht.

The fact that Halo follows so closely the formula they used for Marathon makes the new Marathon being an extraction shooter feel even worse. I was hoping against all hope when I first heard about Marathons reboot that it would be like halo. With a campaign, multiplayer, firefight style mode. I’m just hoping whatever story it has is good

I FUCKING LOVE MARATHON!!!!!!!

Marathon would’ve flourished and been remembered universally as one of the greats if it was on windows. Multiplayer had many of the things that halo brought mainstream. Being on mac gave it the label now as “ahead of its time” because most gamers didn’t experience it. I love doom and marathon for different reasons but Marathon definitely excelled in storytelling and multiplayer which unfortunately wasn’t a huge thing until the early 2000 for the average player.

Same. I think that the moral message of Undertale is slightly warped and corrupted, instead of sparing people who DO deserve to be spared and trying to be understanding, the game feels more like the character is some kind of a martyr who should be okay with being mistreated and treated like trash. *ESPECIALLY* Undertale Yellow where in true pacifist Clover acts like a holy martyr, even though Undertale Yellow isn’t canon but it still has that warped message that being a punching bag is okay somehow. And about the reset thing, maybe Frisk does know about resets, but in Undertale Yellow, Clover *doesn’t know about resets* so to them, they’re literally just a mortal child who got one life to live, which makes it even more effed up. AND it’s can be especially seen in Yellow where Clover decides to protect themselves against a ROBOT and they get scolded by Ceroba for literally just fighting for their life, if that’s not hypocrisy i don’t know what is And also knowing the fact that the main characters still feel pain it’s absurd that you have to endure something like being burned alive to spare someone who doesn’t regret in the slightest to end your life. But oh well, we still have to spare monsters even though they would be *completely fine* with locking all humans underground once they get out

Don't comment a lot, so I'll toss one your way to appease the algorithm. Only got past the Resi part of the video, but I appreciate your commentary on how integral resource management is for survival horror, still mixed on limited saves, but that's just how it goes with people who have different tastes and tolerances for vidya game mechanics.

Hopefully the new Marathon isn't woke.

I noticed the "O" in Halo also has a small Marathon logo but sideways. Also this makes me wonder, is Halo CE not actually Halo 1?? 🤔

Had to stop the video not even halfway through to say "holy shit this is the best video I've watched in a minute". Just started playing Halo again after years and this really brought me back to reading "The Art of Halo" on Christmas morning. Just wanted to say I'm glad I found your channel, and thanks for the super nostalgic vibe all around! Definitely got me inspired to do something of my own again.

Marathon was what made Halo possible, similar to how Halo Reach was what made Destiny possible... (ie OG Bungie tested new features in their established franchises before jumping to a new franchise to figure out what works)

I wouldn't say Marathon didn't leave its mark on the gaming industry. It was THE reason to game on Apple Mac. It was Apple's response to DOOM on Microsoft PCs. It didn't "inspire" mostly because it wasn't all that different from DOOM/Quake in the first place. The only things it largely did that DOOM didn't was a heavy focus on story and momentum. Momentum didn't stick around too much outside of Halo mostly as it wasn't as simplistic. But the heavy story focus of Marathon became very prominent, making its way into Half-Life and basically every game nowadays.

The Marathon logo was ALWAYS the symbol of Reclaimer in Halo. Even in the Bungie games. In Halo: Contact Harvest (written by the lead Halo writer, released in 2008), the Covenant see Harvest covered in upside-down Marathon logos on their Forerunner luminary device that shows Forerunner relics. But when the three prophets speak to Mendicant Bias, he calls them idiots, tells them that they've mistranslated, flips the glyph upside down to show the Marathon logo as we know and love, before explaining to them that it doesn't mean "Reclamation", it means "Reclaimer" and those it represents are its makers (AKA Forerunners/Humans). It was never only a UNSC symbol, it was always a HUMANS symbol, which is why it was always all over Human and Forerunner things everywhere, as you even pointed out all of the Forerunner places/things that contain the Marathon logo.

Mendicant Bias' rampancy process is the exact same as Marathon's rampancy. Mendicant Bias was specifically already in the first stage of Melancholy because of his position basically dictating which Forerunners get to live and which ones die. The Flood tricked him into the second stage of Anger, and aimed him at his makers, the Forerunners, to get him to the Flood's side. And at the end of it all in the present day, when he speaks to Master Chief directly, he's gained his metastability and has reached true selfawareness/personhood. That's why throughout the terminals, Mendicant Bias is referred to as "it" but when he speaks to you directly at the end, Mendicant Bias goes by "he" and such.

13:49 The Covenant don't really have almost ANY AI's on purpose because AI's were the downfall of the Forerunners. Which, ironically, the AI responsible for that IS the AI that Cortana is referencing in this dialogue. She's not up against a Covenant AI, she's up against a Forerunner AI.

I feel like the Ralsei-Noelle thing can be easily explained. Noelle has no idea Ralsei even exists until nearer the end of the chapter and thus, having no idea that he exists results in her seeïng the cup as empty. Ralsei DOES know Noelle exists, as he sees her getting caged by Queen and taken away, and also sees how Kris & Susie care about Noelle. From Ralsei’s perspective, for Kris & Susie to care about Noelle she must be quite a sweet person, hence the reäction to the tea: it’s from his assumptions before fully seeïng her personality (which is also why the reäction is quite weak)

Glad I stumbled onto this video, really good insight, subbed.

great video!

imagine a universe where halo came out in the 90's with marathons graphics and marathon got the fully 3D treatment and had sequels on the 360

Marathon gave halo the mysterious vibe like it had. W/o marathon I think halo woulda been more cloneish like it is now

And you know whats sad? The modern Marathon is going to be a piece of junk. It really feels like after Reach, Bungie never got anywhere close to making another Halo. It’s almost like the Halo series was a point of no return for Bungie. A point in history that they won’t ever be able to return too. It’s sad… really…

Damn wow ... that was a real eye opener! ... I ... iI think I can see the binary now!

Remember that many of the retcons in Halo regarding the forerunners are due to most of 343's management and writers either not being familiar with or outright hating the setting due to not being like most other sci-fi. These guys were hired because some of 343's management thought they would provide a "Fresh Look" on the setting except a handful including Frank O Conner though I doubt the guy had little to no actual power in the studio. This results in an infestation of pseudo-intellectual generic sci-fi fans in the Halo community(making a community that is already known to get very toxic now devolved into heated debates over good games and 343 slop) thanks to Greg Bear's novels which then started a clusterfuck of the setting that has gotten so bad that 343 rebranded itself after the old dumbass management left the studio and the new management deciding to do a reboot of the setting starting with a remake of CE. I do have hope that the "new" studio stays more true to old Bungie's intentions with the setting such as humans being forerunners while mixing some elements in from the 343 era such as the didact being a scared war vet from the flood war.

MOMMY FENRICK!!!!

Awesome video 10/10. I always love these discussions of the original halo lore and Bungie's seemingly intertwined universes with their old games.

I ate my own head

Find yourself Starting back

fantastic video ! i wish fans got a peak behind the curtain from Jason and Joseph and the rest of the big wigs at that era of bungie to see where the divergence from marathon happened. i wonder if there are that many references or parallels in destiny (as far as im aware the most obvious one was the lore tied to the MIDA multi-tool scout rifle)

Bee Cede Malis; one universe informs the Other; Judges 14 :14: Thirty Hurty Philistines from Asklon can't be wrong.

The title should actually be "how bungie just ripped off marathon because they aren't good with coming up with unique naratives"

Thank you for making this. In a world swallowed by nonsense it's so enjoyable to be here with you to appreciate these IPs.

watched your newest upload and liked it so going through the catalogue

In Halo CE, Chief had been referred to as a Cyborg in the chapter titles for missions and I recall that Chief is referred to as a “Mark V” by marines. Which is strange that someone would refer to the armor and not a “Mark V cyborg”

You should analyze the trailer for the new Marathon game to see how many of the og themes are referenced there. I guess it’d be an interesting way of determining if bungie still has the will to create this deep lore imbedded in games, or if it is long gone… could be a way to preemptively see if the game will be good just based off of that

Kind of kicking myself for forgetting this, but the final goodbye message from Bungie, in Reach, is "See ya starside," - a Marathon quote. Definitely noteworthy

copyright doesn't change reality. for example bloodborne is clearly the painted world you make in ds3 using an item called the blood of the dark soul...which you then take to the painter who then paints a world with the blood of the dark soul..... hence the name BLOODBORNE. sony found out and is spiting fans and fromsoft by refusing to release bloodborne. in their hubris they propelled ps4 emulation by like 20 years. devs secretly connect their stories to retain some ownership over their story. why does sony have all the money to fund games and then claim ownership because of said funding? the workers made that money but it all goes to sony who then has more money to fund games...go down the line of these businesses far enough you go from wage slave to chattel slaves and feudal slaves. so they are funding the devs with the devs own money.... and they get away because of the abstract nature in which the theft occurred.

Legendary H3 ending implies Halo was a prequel to Marathon.

I enjoyed this video too after watching your other Marathon Halo video

I really enjoyed the video I'm interested in seeing references to other bungee games in the HALO Series

i’d argue the motion tracker thing was pulled from aliens if u compare ce tracker to the one from aliens it’s pretty similar

Annoyingly I think Microsoft want to exterminartus every instance of Marathon and the logo from halo 😢

Happily surprised that the algorithm pulled your vid into my feed - Risk

One I've noticed recently is in the Library, one of the wall holograms is very similar to the map of the rose in Marathon 1. Pretty strange reference and very subtle reference if it even is one.

The halo 2 marine pilot helmet has a similar look to the helmet from marathon. It even has the exposed mouth, but the lenses aren’t as bug-eyed

this nerd is pretty cool

I thought those symbols were just guilty spark lol

Whatttt I started playing halo at 5 yrs old back in 2003 and never knew that marathon was an old game I thought it was just a new game coming out nevermind know that it was an old game made by bungie b4 halo came outtttt🤯🤯 I gotta play it nowwwwwwwww

loved this video bro, was fascinating to learn all of it, beautiful storytelling bro, you and bungie! would u ever consider doing a video about the Alien movies' influence on halo? i imagine it'd be a shorter video, but it could be lots of fun