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well, the best way is probably to just go directly out of the Neve into the recorder. If you want to, you can plug line level directly into the 500 series of the Box to use an equalizer, and then you can use the direct out of the channel to record. The only problem is if you plug anything external into that 500 series, it disconnects the built-in mic preamp , so you can't just plug it into a patchbay and forget it. if you want to reach around to the back of the board it can work though. This is part of the reason why a lot of people don't use the 500 series rack in the board . I have enough EQs outside the board that it's not really an issue for me. If you only have a few, then I would keep them in an external rack for flexibility. I connect all of my external preamps to my patchbay. There's no reason to go through the board with them.

@@hopetownsound Thanks very much for the advice, really appreciate it. Actually I plugged my U87 into the 1073 in the Lunchbox and took the line out the back of the LB and put it in the insert return on the console, it worked fine, even with 48 volt phantom power. But I never gave it a thought to just plug the return straight into the channel input on the recorder. Its a good job you can help us on here because its useless looking on the internet.

The implication is that they're not different. The thing of it is, they are different flavors, so it affects how you work. if you find yourself leaning into and away from certain sounds depending on their harmonic content. I wouldn't try to make the mix sound the same on an SSL as I would on a Neve. And then like anything else, the more familiar you become with them the more it becomes a conscious choice in your production. The last mix I was doing I set up one channel with an API 550a and one with a Helios and sent the same instrument through both. They were both great in their own way. for the nature of the track, I preferred the Helios for that specific instance. not coincidentally, it seems the only people that question whether this stuff makes a difference are people that don't have it. in some cases it's a subtle difference. In some case it's more pronounced. it's not meant to be appreciated in a blind listening test. It's meant to be appreciated in creating art. Van Gogh mixed his own colors. He didn't have to. He probably would've been considered a genius even if he didn't. At the end of the day, we're doing this for our own pleasure.

my first studio was in nyc near dreamhire rentals - so i rented original 1073s and 1066s every week for years. I don't have any of the current incarnation of AMS Neves. BAE stuff is great. I did once buy a Heritage, it was total crap. i returned it.

Sounds good 👍

Hi, yes this console only supports 8 channels of recording, for anything over that you just patch preamps into the DAW.

I would love to see that too! Smart makes great stuff. I've used it once or twice, but it was a long time ago.

The API is more aggressive, the BAE is more flexible and a smoother sound. I love having both :), but if i had to choose it would be the BAE. Put it this way, I use the BAE exclusively on Vocals. but i love the API's on drums, guitars. They're both premium. you're stylin either way.

Hailey is great!!

Thanks! yes i love it.

the big six has a lot of processing and converters included. if you need that its a good deal i guess. i haven't used it but i suspect the overall sonics in the xdesk are probably a little better. just reacting to how much they crammed into the big six for the price.

ha!! yeah, I just wanted to get back to the console. I skipped over the great rivers and the Hazelriggs as well 😂. no love lost for chandlers lol.

Not to mention The Great River Mic-pre's! Those are amazing.

Thank you! 👍

yes i've seen it. its interesting but im hesitant to add its sound to the signal path, also, I'm getting all the other advantages of doing the final mix in the DAW, recall, plugins... so the DAW automation is just part of that bargain.

@@hopetownsound yeah that totally makes sense. Just now getting into hybrid mixing. Love your videos. Keep up the good work. It’s always nice seeing other peoples workflow. Especially pros that do this on the daily. Thanks again.

That would limit me to 16 analog channels and for most projects thats not enough. If i were running a 1608 or an SSL origin that would be more feasible. The unexpected part to this process is how much I'm enjoying splitting things up. Starting fresh in a new project with the sounds processed and no gain staging is like getting in the hot tub after the ocean. It definitely doesn't feel incoherent :). my explanation might've been though lol.

it takes a little longer to set up the 2nd session but every mix I'm getting faster with that. you could definitely print parallel comps, or do it with plugins in monitor/digital mix. I'm using the SSL bus comp plugin on the drum skins bus and the SSL HF Comp on the drums metal bus. it's really nice.

btw! congrats on the 1608! I came so close to buying one last year, but it's just out of reach for me financially right now. Such a beautiful/flexible console. enjoy!!

@@hopetownsound Thanks. Thats what i was thinking as well. Gonna go in this weekend and demo a mix using your mind opening process. Cheers

its a nice board 👍

lol! Hey George! congrats on the mixer! Hope the Mrs forgives you. If you put an api EQ in the 500 slots, the combo of the 312, the 527 and 550/560 is a devastating recording channel. Enjoy!

​@@hopetownsound I’m saving my pennies for the APIs. It never ends when your a GearsluXX.I also have a couple of Avedis e27s but I don’t know how they will sound. Maybe for the inserts on the summing side in the future but for now I will use the software eqs on my ssl 360 with my Uf1.No plugins purchased yet.I purchased a Studio Technologies 742 mixer for now for my effect returns for my Lexocn 300 and cheap TC M300 through the Program Sum.Still waiting for it The Box 8 to arriive. All this because the one of the fader broke on my Midas Vf24 and there are no replacement parts. Thanks again for your helpful posts Pier. George

@@GeorgeBet-mn3no Avedis stuff is good. 👍

@@hopetownsound Thank You, will try them.

Hey Pier, wanted to ask you how reliable your API Box 2 is. I’m sure you record every day/night probably with now issues. I just got mine Thursday with output problems on the control and PGM outputs.On the control output with the CR knob at 2 o’clock and a sine wave at 0VU, pin 3 is dead and pin 2 is outputting .377 volts..On the PGM bus output, I'm getting .889 Volts on pin 2 and .321 volts on pin three, such a difference for a balanced signal that should equal 1.23Volts.It was the last one from vintage king and it came with a Sweetwater pamphlet inside the crate..Sorry for the off topic, man, but I’m worried about this mixer with all these problems already.(2520 op amps on control and master bus)? Thank You, George

yeah, there's separate program out and control room out. Either have it normal in the patchbay to 2 inputs on your interface, or, I have it on loose cables, so I can patch the program output anywhere. and then monitor the recorded signal on one of the 2 track inputs.

Thank you! i need to watch it again and see what i did right lol

lol! thanks.

🙏 Thank you!

lol, they work very well together.

uh uh yeah I'm gonna spec a $20k console it has to be inline....

plot twist dude ended up buying a trident 68

let me guess youre like uhh uhh but thats actually a good board though man

i've only worked on one once, but it was really good.

lol! yeah, to be fair I haven't spent any time with their new stuff, but I just get skeptical when I see too much crammed in for too little money. The X Desk doesn't really have its own sound, but it's transparent enough.... if you're inserting high-quality equalizers that have their own transformers... you end up with high end sound.

I have to check if you can actually run all the two track inputs at the same time. I know you can't run them simultaneously with the program out. It wasn't designed to do what you're saying for sure but... maybe

@@hopetownsound Looking at the schematics of the Box (squares A-12 A-13) it seems to clearly show the 4 inputs are summed into the cue. And the manual (section 8.2.1) clearly states these "sources are additive". So this looks very promising. Still I'd love to have your feedback as to how it really works. (but if the manual says so, and the schematics show so.... ;-) )

it would be a little odd in terms of patching, but I suppose it's possible. If you look in my videos, one of the early ones when I just got the board is about creating a drum bus using the AUX sends. Personally, I have my D/A converters directly patched to the line inputs (all 24) so I had to bring my group back through the "Sum Input" on the master channel. if you instead have the line inputs for the right side of the mixer come up on a patch bay then there's no reason why you couldn't patch the output of your AUX to 2 channels on the right. part of my issue with that is also losing 2 more channels. But it might be worth it. I ultimately solved the problem by getting the SSL X Desk and using that as a drum sub mixer. this also reserves the precious few AUX sends for FX. I might switch things around, however, and use the SSL for effect returns and use the Cue send to create the drum group (also returned to the SSL) hope this wasn't too much of an answer lol.

@@hopetownsound Thank you, I really appreciate your in-depth reply. If the "Box" had a couple Buses it would be the perfect kit. There's room for bus faders right next to the master fader too. Obviously from a mixing / summing perspective coming in to the Pre's with your drum stems is the ideal setup to get that API sound and saturation we want on drums, but we need to sum those drum channels to a bus for group processing before hitting the two bus. This would have made this mixer the perfect summing mixer for DAWs in my opinion. The way its configured its more like a sidecar with summing options. A missed opportunity for API. Im a real fan of APIs sound but I might have to go the SSL XL-Desk just for the routing but I want colour so that's not a real solution either. Decisions, decisions lol.

API has definitely purposefully left out some functionality to encourage people to upgrade. and it worked. I do want to upgrade but it's a heavy lift to go up to a 1608. I'm getting by for now just adding that little SSL.

@@hopetownsound Yes it was definitely a marketing decision to not affect their sales on higher spec models. The 1608 is a massive jump price wise and that's for a 16 channel while the Box is essentially 24 tho obviously 16 are just summing but still worth mentioning. I honestly think no one has made a perfect summing desk for hybrid mixing purposes yet unless you start looking at the very few "modular" style desks (Looptrotter) around that can be configured with 500 slot gear but man, they want an absolute fortune for basically an empty desk with faders!

The 1608 has flexibility thats not obvious, but yes... still a big jump. The part that you cant appreciate until you have it is the API sound. The Box is unique in how no-compromise it is. And the preamps are great. There no comparison with SSL pres. Also the flexibility to use the built in 527 comps on channel or the mix bus, even the 1608 doesn't have that. Soundwise...you're working on a $100k+ console. And that's very addictive :)

I hope so, it's involuntary :)

I don't have a sigma, so I'm not sure. As far as I know it has internal mixing, but it's primarily a converter. The X Desk is just an analog console.

well, I wouldn't waste high-end Mic preamps just for a show - if anything, it will look like you don't know how to use the console. they don't recommend putting preamps in those slots. You're better off having them in an external 500 series enclosure with a patch bay. and then, I suppose you could send it through the line inputs, although I dedicate my line inputs to the outputs of my converter. In general, when I use external preamps, I just use a patchbay and go straight to my converter and don't go through the mixer at all. If I want an API preamp, the mixer has eight of them built in. I find it's more useful having equalizers in the mixers slots.

@@hopetownsound Thanks for the advice, yea that,s a better way to just have my 1073 on a patch bay comming into a line input via the bay and kept in the lunchbox. I already have some spare 512,s and thought they could just sit in the 500 slot,s not for any use other than aesthetics for now until I can afford to fill up with more 550A,s. As long as I dont engage the switch on them I wondered if they would cause a problem.Your videos are highly instructive, big thanks for that.

if they're spare, I would sell them and buy something you can use. just y'know...lol. I have BAE 1073 preamps and equalizers for a while I had them in a Fredenstein 500 series chassis where i could daisy chain the pres to the EQs internally and make channel strips. worked well

right now I'm still using the SSL on the Mix bus and I'm dedicating the API to channels. It's a tough call (listening in the room). I still feel that the SSL provides some punch and glue that the API does not. I think it's going to end up being a matter of what the particular music needs. one reason I'm also going with the SSL which I'm not happy about, is that it actually has a make up gain so I can control how the signal hits the rest of my insert chain. With the built-in API compressor the only way to do that is by trimming every fader on the mix. I do have a pair of 500 series 527s so I could use those same way as the SSL... we'll see I may end up doing that more.

sure. you can email from the website www.hopetownsound.com

API has a great sound for rap. 👍

ok :)... so, the 0 button doesn't route from different inputs, it just bypasses the faders. For both of your questions, I think the answer is patchbays. creative use of normalling vs patching i think is the best solution. The Box does purposefully omit some features that would be really handy lol. APIs not so subtle way of encouraging you to step up to the next level. I get around that by adding the SSL X Desk as a sidecar and feeding it through the Summing Input.

@@hopetownsound - Yeah, I worded that poorly and know that's not what the 0 function does. I am testing putting a pair of Radial SW8's (D/SUB not USB version) linked on the summing side of the board so I can A/B toggle/switch between tracking 2x channel stuff and summed drums through the board and mixing from the DAW. I understand why API did what they did, but I wish they would have been more thoughtful in their attempts to not erode 1608 sales ;) - Fingers crossed, I prefer the API to my former SSL Matrix minus these limitations (yeah, patchbay, get it). This setup with a footswitch on the SW8 would get me back to a setup similar to the Matrix minus automated faders. I much prefer the tone of the API, hence why I sold the Matrix. These SW8's are < $500 used on Reverb and can be linked together. Flock came to mind here, but this solution is far cheaper and lets me push a button/footswitch to toggle versus turning back to the computer or yanking patch cables. Thanks again for all the inspo w/ this board.

@@jonathanknorr1971 it's always interesting seeing what people come up with. if you get this all set up, please make a video I'd love to see it.

First off it's the sound. The API just sounds amazing. It has a low end that the SSL just doesn't have. The difference between having 8 API mic preamp versus 8 SSL is also a big incentive. when you're comparing SSL to API, SSL will usually have the more impressive features, but you don't have to spend much time working on an API to understand how dramatic the sound difference is. Running the X Desk shows me that SSL can be very clean and large sounding, but it doesn't have any of the mojo that the API has, which is very addictive once you experience it. I did not appreciate how much until I actually had it. There's a magic in the mid range on the API that's unique.

ty! 🙏

Awesome! Thank you!

yeah, I couldn't say. They're getting further and further away from matching the software to the hardware so... we'll see

You’re welcome 👍

Yes you can just send the mix outputs

if you know, you know

well, with an analog mixer you can just use aux sends from your input channel. most audio interfaces also have a way to monitor before going to the computer. The easiest way, however, is to just lower the recording buffer in your DAW and don't run any heavy plug-ins. Then you can go through the computer with very minimal latency.

@@hopetownsound Thank you. However, I do not want latency or buffer issues. I understand what you mean by using the Mixer via aux sends, but I do not have a mixer like yours. The last option is to use an interface to monitor my voice before it hits the daw, but no reverb, and what interface? I really have not seen one that does this.

any UA Apollo interface can give you zero latency monitoring and run UAD plug-ins with no latency, including reverbs. And just because you run through the computer with very minimal latency doesn't mean you'll have issues. There are lots of reverbs that don't introduce latency, if the buffer is low enough, it would be imperceptible. I don't know what DAW you are using, but a buffer of 128 should be just fine for low latency recording and running a Reverb. Cubase actually has a button that disables all high latency plug-ins while you're recording. The different DAW's all handle it differently.

@@hopetownsound Thank you 🙏