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Good video. I agree to all comments you made. I had not thought about how flawed the outpost attacks are until you mentioned it here. They could be made much better. I also hate the puzzle book, and I would go much stronger on that, I want it out of the game completely. The puzzles were not the thing that made me love Gloomhaven. I don't know about others watching this video, but I would not worry about spoilers at all, I think that those who are watching this video have played the game for a while.

I am playing the frosthaven campaign with my 9 year old son and he said exactly same thing about the Outpost Attacks. I would also add to flaws that some instructions not explained enough and for a game that is legacy that could be game breaking. I have to spend lots of my attention to understand everything in proper during our adventures and still mistakes happen. I would also like to had an option to read texts(in scenario descriptions/paragraphs) in standard EN instead of the whatever this thing they use since i have to translate everything.

It's a very underrated game!

This class felt so painful to play, I dropped it when I reached level 3. It's a pain having to manage players + enemies + mission targets, all in one round. Most of the time others are just thinking "what can i kill with my combo" and I'm stuck thinking "who can i position to be able to do mediocre damage". And having to plan the flag so others can do the kills feels.... awesome. Oh, you picked a kill mission? Well sucks to be a Banner Spear, huh. you wanted to use your flags or grant movement? Well, don't worry about movements cause that's not gonna be something you do at all. Just reuse those 4-move cards for..ever. You're good at taking hits, so stay there and be a nice little cannon fodder. Also you'll be the first player to just be using the default move/attack for 2, and you better get used to that. As for xp, we don't use that word here. Painful, torture to play class 😢

Biggest flaw is the wokeness.

Quick correction - Quenched Rage will only ever push an enemy "through" 2 haz tiles (unless enhanced), since "through" requires moving them onto and then off of a tile. Makes this harder to get great value from.

Are you controlling the movement of your summons with the "grant movement" action? Don't you only get to control the movement, if it specifically says so? Take "Approach oblivion" as an example.

I agree with most. Dont like the puzzles Dont like the events Hate the stupid attacks I do want more special rules and challanges

I agree with all flaws mentioned! Caveat is for the puzzle book, I’m ok for them to block one class like they did in Gloomhaven. But to prevent progress in the campaign is really not cool.

I am having a nice time sorting my pieces into the little boxes. I wasn’t fully paying attention clearly because when I opened it I was surprised to see no punch boards.

So i just watched this one and after your top 5 flaws in Frosthaven video that I watched and left a novel-length comment on... but again, here you're talking about the attacks on the outpost being boring. Ill be playing this with my kids (as I've said... 15, 13 and soon-to-be 10) and I'm now considering just ignoring the attacks. Is there really any good reason to keep them at all? It seems like such a droll thing to have to do and, honestly, like something im going to be trudging through drawing a card for as my kids are wandering off to get a drink and talking about how much experience they gained and what they want to do differently in the next scenario. So would just ignoring them as a "house rule" be viable? I know my 15 year old will want to play "by the book" but I know too that if I give solid reasons including, "EVERYBODY online says to ognore these..." they may get on board. I don't want to lessen the game experience but this doesnt seem like it adds anything at all. Thoughts?

The starter mushroom 'cross' goes in slanted (rotate 45 degrees) and won't push out the box sides

FINALLY watched this! Great stuff! We got "Tales from the Red Dragon Inn" instead of Frosthaven and because we didn't want to wait on Gloomhaven 2.0. It was less expensive and sounded really fun because it is simpler to set up, doesn't have a lot of the "fiddliness" of Jaws of the Lion and so on and so on. It's really fun! We love it a lot in fact. But, honestly, we found out we LIKE the fiddliness of Gloomhaven type of games! The character mechanics and all are a lot more fun in GH games. So we've already been going back to JOTL to finish campaigns we "missed" every now and then. That being said... I'm planning on getting Frosthaven now just as soon as I can. So, this video is really helpful for that future date! Thanks! You mentioned the Event Deck. Isn't there a way to apply some "house rules" to the Even Deck so that it makes it better? Seems like, from what you said, maybe just not shuffling the deck every time. Or maybe figuring out a way to map them to the even calendar? If we know that at the beginning we could do some house rule that would help fix it. Outpost Attacks sounds like something you could possibly fix "in house" as well. Of course I've not played the game yet so I'm not sure exactly how the outpost stuff works. But could you MAKE a map of your outpost as you play and then when an outpost attack play it out somehow? Special Rules sound like just something we're gonna have to live with. haha Honestly the MORE things my almost-10-year-old son has to read the more he enjoys the game. But yeah... no ideas on that one. The bad Miniatures are why I 3D print our own miniatures and paint those. I painted the ones that came with it too, but they are WAY too small and super "muddy" for sure! Here's some pictures of both the ones that came with it and the ones that I printed and did myself. Can you tell who's who? I think they're pretty obvious. haha photos.app.goo.gl/66Lp8NK51XUothBE8 The Puzzle Book honestly sounds like one of the things we will love! I write riddles myself and love puzzles but HARD puzzles are so difficult to find. So my oldest daughter, 15, and I should be able to do those and all 3 of my kids love puzzles. As long as they're GOOD! If they're hard but stupid - i.e. don't actually make sense once you know the answer - then that can be annoying. But yeah, at least now I'm probably disagreeing with you about the puzzle book. Unlocking things WITHOUT it should be an option, I will agree, but figuring out a puzzle sounds like a lot of fun to me. Anyway, thanks for the video! Oh... here are the miniatures I had mad for some of Frosthaven's classes in Hero Forge. We may still tweak them, or I may buy an STL file for some of them, but you might enjoy seeing these... Banner Spear www.heroforge.com/load_config%3D520026630/ Blink Blade www.heroforge.com/load_config%3D520050717/ Boneshaper www.heroforge.com/load_config%3D520009497/ Deathwalker - with helmet www.heroforge.com/load_config%3D519907723/ Deathwalker - without helmet www.heroforge.com/load_config%3D519983580/ Drifter www.heroforge.com/load_config%3D520026532/ Geminate - Together www.heroforge.com/load_config%3D520022839/ Geminate Melee www.heroforge.com/load_config%3D519963545/ Geminate Ranged www.heroforge.com/load_config%3D519968969/

Then the score pad is not double sided.

Greatz from Germany and thx for your Content We are now in Year3 and have done 42 Scenarios...we have done the big 3 Campaigns and "working" on this litle one peace by peace...it's kind of frustation... IT feels like a bit of random Dungeons...pls tell me, that will more comming until the End of good Storytelling?

I enjoy all the special scenario rules, but i would like a shorter outpost phase.

I think a lot of these flaws come down to "Cool idea, but dial it down a notch."

We absolutely hated the "town building" mechanic. It was time consuming, and was required to advance properly. We began to hate having to gather resources just to spend them all building a stupid city that in reality would be building without waiting for us to bring home a few scraps of leather or wood from an adventure. All it did was suck up our resources, preventing us from concentrating on buildling our characters and doing exciting adventures. I didn't mind the special rules scenarios, but I agree sometimes you just want something simple. Actually, some of the most fun scenarios were the ones with special rules, as coming up with zany ideas in many cases resulted in figuring out how to solve them. The puzzle book was another thing we hated. We did not pick this game to do cryptology. Maybe if it somehow gave you access to a few neat things for the truly hard working. But we ran out of scenarios to play because we couldn't figure that stuff out. A big no for our group.

Very much disagree with number 3. Give me special rules galore :D

Great video: #1: Not entirely a flaw for me. I love the calendar events but I like the surprise of drawing an event. However, in both cases - maybe even moreso with the calendar items - there’s so often not enough context given to remember what this event or calendar item is connected to, and you have no way to track down the origin story. #2: YES. Great idea in concept (Frosthaven outpost attacks), terrible in execution. #3: Mixed feelings from me. Entirely relate to wanting simpler scenarios, but I also loved many of the scenario special rules. It’s just a lot on top of a lot on top of a lot, though, as far as mental tax. #4: Yeah, many of the minis do not inspire me. In contrast, I adore the character standees! I normally use those instead of the minis and would be entirely pleased with just those in future products. #5: The puzzle book actually killed my interest in finishing. I played an enormous amount of Frosthaven before it showed up, and I had no idea how to approach even the first puzzle. So I was like “Well… this is my sign, I’m just calling it here.” #6: Surprised you didn’t also mention the horrific crafting system. Totally a computer game system that does not translate to practical use at all. The blueprints are also super unwieldy, unintuitive, and ultimately not worth it. I would be happy to see someone clean house on the ‘Haven system and get us a Jaws type product even more streamlined and focused on real life playability. The classes are by and large FIRE in Frosthaven and they carry the game almost entirely.

Hate, hated, HATED puzzle stuff in GH, already decided day one we’ll be spoiling our way through anything to do with the puzzle book when we get there in FH, and I’m fine with that. If others like the puzzle, super, enjoy it. My top flaw is resource/herb game. If you’re a class that needs a bunch of metal to craft items most useful to you, sucks to be you, and so on, even worse with herbs. Now I could get behind when you drop a treasure, you draw the card immediately and drop that specific treasure on the hex. Don’t need a hide? Leave it for the other guys. We actually simplified the whole resource game, everyone places the resources in Frosthaven, which is allowed as written, but also permit folks to craft using the Frosthaven stash. I mean it’s already done that way for potions, we just extended it to everything resource based.

I spent about 20 sessions after discovering the puzzle book without even realising that the scenarios I was doing related to the puzzle book. I thought it had all gone rather quiet, checked online, and realised I should have done four or five puzzled already. Also, decoding alien codes letter by letter is BOOOOOORING.

The deathwalker mini is APPALLING.

Have to say, I love 'kill all enemies'.

Maybe players could mitigate the negative effects of Outpost attacks by sacrificing cards, so they start the next scenario with one or two discarded or even lost?

Completely agree! We haven't come across the Outpost attacks and the Puzzle Book yet , but I feel frustrated just thinking about it. Just give us the characters and the gameplay puzzle and leave the clutter out.

There are outpost attacks that give you a choice of what to do - depending on your choice the attack differs in strengths. I've also had an outpost "attack" at the harbor that forced a scenario to be the next to be played taking place inside Frosthaven to deal with the "Attack".

I've only played Gloomhaven, even though I own JotL and FH, just really hard to keep a consistent group. I've 'restarted' twice with people and eventually it fizzles out. But hearing about the Outpost attack and the 'use this same map' would not only be a great idea, but then when you 'make your outpost more defensible' what if you were able to add traps to your map or some kind of advantage to your side vs monster's side? That would be an in-game thing that doesn't guarantee you victory, but it makes it easier for you.

I agree with all, but 3 and 5 are the flaws that I think impact the game the most. 3 is not a problem with introducing special rules imo, the rules just need to keep in mind the classes that have to fight against those rules. There were some scenarios with special rules that didn't fk over particular classes too hard and just added a little spice to the typical formula. I think the big problem with the special rules is that there are scenarios that just kneecap certain classes to the extreme, like certain scenarios have enemies that are completely pointless to target (or even actively detrimental), but the scenario has nothing to help out summon focused characters. There are also many scenarios that really really hurt the unlockable trap class, which really holds the class down and makes them miserable to play until you can find a level that doesn't fk you over. There's levels that shunt you into the next room once you open the door and get rid of the previous tile, which destroys the traps you were building up in the previous room. There's levels that force you to keep moving which fks trap. There's levels which teleport you to new rooms which fks trap. Levels that have features in 50% of the hexes which prevents trapper from placing a trap in those hexes. Trap is balanced around being able to use their gimmick, but cannot do so in like half of frosthaven scenarios and has to settle for being a subpar dmg class with low hp pool, low hand size in those scenarios which don't allow you to use their tools effectively. I think if you put trap into gloomhaven they would be a great character, in the upper echelons of power level and very fun. But the experience sucks for most of frosthaven. With 5, the biggest flaw imo is the classes and endgame being locked behind the book, but the most annoying flaw is that there are typos and logic flaws in the fking puzzles. Literally the very first 3 puzzles in the book have a flaw whether it be a typo or logic flaw. After we figured that out, and figured out that we were supposed to look back into the scenario book to solve one of the puzzles, to a scenario we had completed literal months before, we gave up on the puzzle book and used an online guide.

Probably my biggest pet peeve, and a detail I know, is I really didnt like crafting trees. So many times I never bothered with items as I didnt want to have to go back and see what crafting materials I needed when that meant I needed to go search for a whole other item. Just put it all on one card, sheesh!

I dont mind flaw 3 at all, but some of the special rules could get tedious at times with so much of them just being endless spawns. When it was done right though it was fantastic. My expierence may be a little of an outlier though as I typically played with my wife with us playing two heroes each so coordinating was alot easier and we didnt run into the "this scenario doesnt seem well balanced for two players" thing im told by others was frequently a thing. For the special rules sometimes it felt like they didnt really keep track of the ratio between added bookeeping over how much it changes things up.

I totally agree with these flaws and I think your solution for outpost attacks is reasonable, too. I don't know if they'll have a similar mechanic for NextHaven, but if they do, letting players play cards (the reason we love this game at its core) is a smart idea!

Flaw 1: IMO This is actually good. The event deck shouldn't be a book. We were actually excited to see events when they finally came up. Flaw 2: No doubt. Yes you can build your defense over time, but even that is zzz. Why not just give us less resources? Flaw 3: I think the actual problem is that they went back to tiles. If set-up was JotL booklet based, we'd have more energy for so many single-use rules. Flaw 4: As a KDM fan, I'm biased but these minis are BAD. Blinkblade, from a molding perspective, is actually one of the better ones. And there's one crab that is really good. Otherwise, these look like they are from a dollar store in the 80s. Flaw 5: HOW HOW HOW did this get through playtesting. Concept is A+. Execution is soooo bad. My biggest gripe is that there are solution to puzzles at the ends of scenarios you can finish BEFORE you even get the book. If they REALLY wanted to do this, they needed to lock things MORE. So that you couldn't move past the answer to a puzzle before you saw it, really just ran the campaign to a halt and eventually we just googled the answers. (and don't get me started on the one that you need to look at the map for...)

Why don’t you hate on my classes some more man! Also how could you forget about the giant laser attack we had that was hilarious!

Yay!!!! Can't wait to watch this!!!

In our game for the event deck we have been skipping ones that we have already done and are repeatable. It still probably wont let us see all of them

Calling this video "the 5 flaws of frosthaven" when in reality this is a discussion of your personal, subjective experience /feeling is misleading. A flaw is objective. Claiming that adding events to the event deck when they added the calendar seems to me personally as an active decision on the side of the designers that knew you might not encounter the next step and they were ok with it, just like they're ok with you being locked out of some of the scenarios, it's simply probably not critical for the overall story and you can't expect to see everything. For outpost attacks - they could do what you're suggesting but imagine a bunch of people sitting down to a 2h scenario, trying to quickly wrap up the outpost phase before scattering and suddenly they need to do a smaller defense scenario when they're pressed on time.. I think it would be more fun in a vacuum but is unrealistic to have such huge variance in the outpost phase length.. The point I'm trying to make is you're allowed to have your opinion, and people may agree on some of it, but claiming your dislikes are objective flaws in the game is a flaw in your logic.. And if I'm allowed to sound my opinion : 1. Already stated up top 2. Kind of agree and would like to see something along the lines you suggested but i see the technical issues surrounding that implementation 3. Special rules got my head spinning at times - agree 4. Couldn't care less or more about the miniatures 5. Agree over the puzzle book, and also some of the puzzle logic is incoherent which is terrible.

I'm pretty sure the barracks (and thus soldiers) are available from the starting unlocked buildings, and there are some small attacks even in the year 1 summer outpost deck

Flaw # 3 was so frustrating for our group too. There were some nights where we just wanted to just enjoy a simple "k*ll all monsters" scenario, but special rules just got in the way. Another issue we had with the constant special rules is that you would be forced not to play to your characters' strengths at times. Flaw #4 you are spot on. After painting other minis from boardgames or skirmish games I have, the quality of Fh minis is simply bad. Flaw #5 started out fun but became a chore that we all despised by the end of it, especially at the frequency we played. We would forget half of what we did last session and then we would have to back track just to solve a puzzle. Halfway through, we just went to a puzzle guide and said F* it. Great video my man!

I like the idea of attacks just bleeding your resources a bit - makes it more of a struggle in the early game, as it should be for a meager outpost. Once you get all the walls or another progress threshold they should just completely end though, it's always a drag. would be nice if there was more interaction with race or attributes to modify attack outcomes. I don't mind the special rules too much because they add a lot of flavor and interesting challenges, but it's telling when "k*ll all enemies" is something everyone looks forward to in the mission briefing. As for the puzzle book, I liked most of it, but the bad parts really weigh it down. I liked the decoding parts a lot and a few of the scenario callbacks, but some of the solutions were absolute nonsense that we had to look up and would have never gotten on our own, especially since we found the book quite late in our campaign.

Personally, I felt like the classes were generally a lot weaker powerwise than the ones from GH or JotL (haven't played Diviner so I can't speak for her power), with a lot more "set up" being needed to execute normal attacks. This would be fine, but the enemies don't seem like they were balanced around it. They still feel like they're on the GH scale in terms of their damage output, which made a lot of scenarios frustrating. We actually stopped playing because we hit a road block and couldn't beat any of the scenarios even after lowering the difficulty to easy. I should note that all three of us are GH vets, I have 1000+ hours in GH and we've all played thru GH at least once (me 3 times haha, another guy was on 2 times), so it's not like we're bad at the game. Often times it felt like I, as Blinkblade, was the only person doing enough damage to actually win scenarios, and once I retired him, we stopped winning. I've voiced my frustrations about it before but it's always downvote spam or "git gud". IDK, just stinks. We are gonna try it again after we play thru Crimson Scales (which we've only failed one scenario and we're 15 in, whereas we were a quarter of the way done with FH). But yeah, that's my biggest flaw with FH. I agree with the part about the outpost events, I wish it was more involved.

For attacks I think what would be cool is if the outpost had its own ability cards. I'm not sure exactly what that would look like, but basically you have to choose a card to try to defend the outpost a certain way and then draw to see whether your defense worked. And as you add walls and upgrade certain buildings you get better cards. I wouldn't want it to get too complex for the sake of time, but anything more than what's there now.

Damn I LOVE that shirt!

Hey just wanted to say as somebody who loves 'Haven class guides I appreciate your work. You are getting more comfortable and finding your style, and have a dry sense of humor that comes through. I think your guides are new player friendly with your attitude of "here's the core cards, other than that find what you like" as opposed to "you need to play this exact way to be optimal", etc. Look forward to future content!

You should be able to have four pairs of cards in your discard in order to get a Move 6 out of Memory Drive. You can play Processing in Round 3 of the scenario, then Round 4 discard Processing, play two cards and then discard them when done, and finally play the bottom of Memory Drive to do the Move 6. You can also use stamina potions and other card-recovery shenanigans to do this, or even do it a second time. It may not be a good way to play, unless it’s one of those “you-need-to-move-a-LOT” Frosthaven scenarios. But it’s doable.

Thanks for the review, I'm definitely a little more interested in picking Drill after my next retirement.

I think I commented on one of your others that my kids are planning on playing Drifter, Banner Spear and possibly Blink Blade when we get Frosthaven. My daughter that's thinking Blink Blade may want to do Boneshaper or Deathwalker. If she does Deathwalker or Blink Blade I'm thinking I may do Boneshaper because it would work well with Banner Spear. I really like Deathwalker though... haha Again, thanks for the videos!!

Completely agree with you about the beginners set. It's really good

Man, thank you so much for this video! My kids and i have been playing JOTL gor the past year and have LOVED it!!! Rather than waiting for GH 2.0 we are going to jump to FH next. This won't be until December probably, but we are already looking at starter / non-spoiler info. Most of what i had seen about Banner Spear just seemed overly down on her. But knowing how we play and specifically how my oldest daughter, 15, plays i kept thinking, "She seems like she'd be good!" This video sealed it for me and I'm going to recommend my daughter pick her. My son, 9, may even want to do it instead of Drifter after he watches this! Seriously, great info. Thanks again! Im definitely going to see what else you have on FH now. 🤘👍

MUST HAVE ??????? Surely you jest