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I'm sorry - it was too complicated for me and I sold it. :(

That was kinda my point - they're both called slip joint, but that's about all they have in common.

That is probably more of a test of me than the tool... lol

wait what???

@ just almost got banned for questioning the decisions of the mod team in the general tool discussion. They moved my post asking why they shut down discussion on my first thread to the questions section the first thread was basically just announcing that these pliers finally hit the shelves. But they determined it was too similar to a thread that was months old asking when the pliers were going to finally be released since we have been waiting for these since sema 2023

I'd really rather leave GarageJournal drama at GarageJournal. I don't have anything to do with them (other than being a member/participant)

They're definitely not licensed. There's no real patents or IP that would exist for this kind of thing (or, at least, any that could be defended successfully in court)

@@themessygarageeven if their was which i do not think there is as you suggest, it didnt turn out well for snappy with the daytona jack considering they settled out of court and hf continues to sell the Daytona super duty jack.

@@DaveDoesDonutz I've actually read a bunch of the court summaries about that case, and the whole thing was very-poorly handled by Snap On. The judge basically told them to settle before worse things happened. I think they thought they'd scare HF, and they really had essentially nothing to stand on.

@ thats essentially what i heard as well. Hf put out a statement saying both parties came to a mutually beneficial arrangement but I think the mutual benefit snap on received was not hemorrhaging out millions of dollars for legal representation on a losing battle only to have their ass handed to them and take an even worse hit with all the bad PR that would result from it. These days everyone is rebranding tools but snap on doesnt want their customers to understand this and to just blondly accept the prices they charge to be on account of superior quality and stellar warranty service but now a days lifetime warranty at snap on is not better than hf, if anything being able to walk into a store instead of waiting for your tool truck rep to be available to come to you is the better warranty

The snap on ones are made in a factory here in the US and the patent expired

They're not in stock in stores yet..probably tomorrow..that's why stores show then out of stock..they're not in yet👍 I ordered mine online

That’s actually a good idea!! Imagine a full set of slate gray tools inside a of the same color!! Rad!!

I'm surprised they haven't done that yet because that's pure genius!! Imagine if they offered colors like snap on too. Man, that be a huge freaking hit!!

$1000 off at the end of this month, I believe in the 29th 25% off icon boxes, + 10% if you've never used the HFCC 💯

@CorvetteTrev that's when I'm getting mine. I get the 25% plus an additional 20% because my friend works there.

The teeth are actually sharper/pointer, so I'm going to guess you'll be fine. Snap On designed their teeth that way, so I'd have to guess they have a reason why.

Yep, i think LN46 is a more ideal size

The LN46ACF put pliers in my hands more often, which is why I got the '47 size. I think it will wind up being like my Knipex Pliers Wrench - I use the 180mm/7" a LOT more than I do the 250mm/12". I wish Icon had targeted the '46 instead, but guessing since the '47 announced first that's what they started with. I hope it's not one-off and Icon does the smaller sizes in this and the pliers wrench too...

@themessygarage I work aviation so we use the 7,10,12 a lot. For people like us we're unlikely to invest in the icons and then have to still buy 2 knipex sizes. Id imagine they want to test the market with common sizing and see where it goes.

$25

I think the 'give' on the grip is going to be a preference thing for sure. It's nicely grippy, and I feel like I'd be less likely to drop it when I'm in the least-desirable spot to do it - lol. I had to use my Icon version of the twin grips a fair bit recently (old, kinda-stupid house with a lot of slotted screws...) and they did a great job for me.

Metallurgy is more than the "Hard good, soft bad" that seems to permeate a lot of videos and comments. The reason so many alloys exist is things are designed with tolerances that may require a certain hardness (or lack of it) to achieve something else in the design. I've worked with a lot of engineers for years, and they've cured me of my desire to stick quick opinions on stuff like this.

@ thanks for the insight

Exactly ☝️...THEY'RE $20...😅

@@themessygarageThen you should know there are vast differences between “most” USA forgings & castings vs mid grade Taiwan DIY stuff. The price isn’t the only factor. I’ll gladly buy the snap on variant 🇺🇸

It definitely is. The 2834 is even more powerful - it's pretty crazy!

True, but they're not called apples and oranges. The good news is I'm getting great use out of both (pliers, not fruit 😉🙃)

Thanks for watching!

I always put the little latched pin through the set pin because I worry about exactly that.

LoL - fair. But I will say the SO pair has been in my hand a LOT since that video. The TwinGrip has saved my butt a couple times doing that it does, but it's more of an emergency tool.

Crap - you're right! I let the bar lights fool me! Thanks for pointing that out!

I hope that's true, but I can't imagine...

@ just got home with one from Home Depot in Ontario. $201 cad with tax. 2563-20 3/8 is the same price. My Wife’s going to buffalo Saturday and I’m going to get her to get me the fuel m12 high speed ratchet combo with 2 batteries and impact driver for 199 usd. Each country gets extremely different deals

I don't generally like to speculate on things like metallurgy since I don't have the data. It's an odd thing that Esco seems to bounce between rating per pair and rating per stand, but as I said in my response to your other comment there's no scenario where I'd trust the 10498 stands with anything close to 6 tons. An F-250 truck approaches 4 tons and an F-350 can be over 4 tons, and there's *zero* chance I'd use an Esco pair for putting even just one end in the air for either one. That's doubly true at the upper end of the height range.. That's not a dig against Esco - I'm happy with my set overall, but 3 tons a pair is all I'm asking of any of my jack stands. If I had something requiring 4 tons like the heavy-duty pickups, I'm going to the 22 ton design or something similar.

@@themessygarage All jack stands should be used in pairs for safety, the difference is the ESCO jack stands are individually rated at 3 tons per jack stand, If you read the instructions all jack stands will also say to only have one end of the vehicle on jacks stands at a time. Now if you are only removing one tire you can use a single jack stand and that is where the ESCO shine, they are a true 3 ton jack stand, were as the Harbor Freight knock off copy is rated 3 tons for the pair making them 1.5 tons each.

FWIW - when you look in the product manual on the Esco website (esco.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/10497_10498_10498_Instructions-01.06.2022.pdf) it states 3 Tons for the pair. If you look at their other stands, they all appear to be rated in pairs. I'm not sure what to attribute that to, but I'm guessing the correct rating for the Esco and Daytona stands is 3 tons for the pair.

I haven't - I'll try to get back it. When the Daytona stands came out, there was a lot of discussion on the topic of load rating. As it sits, it does appear that HF is claiming a 3 ton capacity for the pair (which is how stands are typically rated) and Esco is claiming 3 tons for an individual stand. Here's my take on that: I would not trust EITHER set for more than 3 tons. I don't know how the rating system works - I don't think I've seen another company offer a "per-stand" rating, and I don't know if that means Esco is claiming 6 tons for the pair (in other words, I'm not sure the ratings are additive like that or if it's the lowest capacity of either individual stand). But however that works, I would NOT trust 12,000 pounds to this design and build (from anyone). That's a huge amount of weight, and if I needed it I'd go to something along the lines of the 22 ton Esco (which seems to be the rating for the pair, not each stand) or its Daytona knockoff. The good news is I have nothing in my garage that approaches 3 tons/6K lb., so I'm well within a zone of safety in terms of the weight rating for both sets. I can't imaging dropping 12K* pounds on the Escos and feeling comfortable with that. Since this video I've used both sets a fair bit, and both have been flawless.

ESCO used to rate their stands individually but not anymore. Theirs are now rated at 3 tons per pair just as the Daytona's are.

I agree it needs to be firm, but it shouldn't be difficult, which it often is with the old batteries. The new ones feel great!

@ true

I haven't heard that about the Stubby (either Gen), but I have seen a couple mentions on the Torque Test Channel about this on M18 impact drivers. No idea what's going on there (if anything), but I use an M12 Surge impact driver that is my favorite power tool, and has been flawless.

The simple answer is I'm not that smart 🤣. The longer answer is I didn't think about it and the instructions don't recommend it (and that should probably be Step #1).

@@themessygarage i appreciate the video none the less hahah thank u 🫡

Firstly - thanks for the first laugh of the day and teaching me a new saying - I'd never heard "grab the dick off of something" before. Certainly you'd want the bigger pair for a task like that! I appreciate your insight, comment and watching!

The Icon is really kind of a hybrid, and since the new Knipex design is mainly what's out there and what I have in the drawer, I went that direction.

Fair. That would make a good suggestion in the instructions...

i hope i dont have this issue - waiting for mine to arrive in a few days - was torn between this stubby and the mid torque

That sounds like a warranty thing for one of them...

I actually think you need both and even a high torque they each have their own roll to play

@@alcerz984 I've had this thought too. I'm trying to resist that notion.. 😁

I can tell you from experience you WILL run into particular bolts whether it be suspension or brakes with rust or torqued to high specs when you will need the mid and the high torque.

Oh. I missed that myself. I don't really use them that way, but... :/

@themessygarage going on my second day with all 4 jack stands on my car and my low profile jack as back up

I've liked them a lot. :)

The Short Version: I was selling them them because they were not correct for the reason I bought them and inaccurately disclosed. I'm fine with treating my tools like tools. The Long Version: Ultimately, I wound up keeping them, mainly because life exploded shortly after that video. I might sell them at some point. Anyway the issue I had was they were misrepresented and damaged, so they weren't right for the purpose I bought them for: a set to compare a known-good set to other similar sets on their same-brand ratchet. I say in the video that there's nothing wrong with them, but they were obviously well-used and so likely not as tight as the new set I got. I'm still working my way out of the life-chaos, so I haven't done the comparison video yet. I'm definitely not a pro, and I do not consider my tools jewelry or collectable. I take care of them though. If I needed to use a socket as a drill guide, I have crap sets that would take the hit. If I had to use the Snap On, I would, but I definitely wouldn't sell them to someone else without (A) disclosing the condition accurately, and (B) fixing the big burrs on the inside of the socket. (I have a nice vintage BMW where the makes those sockets would make would not be cool with me). Anyway, sorry for the long reply.

Appreciate the insight!

The benefit of a lift, eh? :)

I hang it on my speedo

Link?