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I want to cover that too! It's definitely on the list.

Thanks for your comment. First off, I should have done a better job discussing this in the video and plan to make a part 3 to cover this. From tweaking hundreds of these in the past, both the magnet AND spring adjust both the pickup and timing to some extent. #1 the spring is easier to make fine adjustments, whereas a 1/8" movement of the magnet changes the characteristic drastically. #2 when considering the tolerance bands we're looking at, it seems to be easier to bump the low end of the curve (2xTAP) into calibration using the spring without pushing the pickup result out than vice versa. If either test fails by a small percentage, I start with the spring and can usually get everything dialed in. If the fast end of the curve (>6xTAP) is out of spec, it's likely at that point you'll need to move the magnet to get the high end dialed in and then adjust the spring to correct the slow end after. Just what I've found though, and your mileage will vary. And it's important to test the pickup AND curve against after tweaks which I didn't demonstrate in the video.

Happy to help!

That's a really good point and I don't think I mention it in the video. Both adjustments affect both the pickup AND timing to some extent. I've found that a small adjustment to the clock spring has a more drastic effect on the time curve than the pickup in terms of the percentages we record during testing. That said, I certainly should have retested the pickup after making the adjustment. And I agree, I too am curious how much that tweaked the pickup. Thanks for your comment, now I need to make a follow up video 🙃

Glad to help!

Nvm, I see your registered with EPS/CFR

I'm actually entirely self-taught on PS and rather dislike using RTS. Nothing wrong with it when it works I just never needed to use it and I'm really quick with PS. I also haven't worked at EPS since 2018.

There's still tens of thousands of them around in service in old factories and (shockingly) substations around the US. If no one learns about them we'll be screwed when all the old guys retire!

Happy to help!

Well, sometimes phase overcurrent protection and ground overcurrent are protected by a single breaker. But there's a couple reasons to have them separate. #1, as usual, is cost. Not all circuits require GFCI protection and depending on the size of the breaker, it makes it 20%-100% more expensive per breaker. If you don't need GFCI protection, you can save a significant sum of money by not having it. In some instances, ground fault protection is only enabled on the main service entrance breaker and that protects most of the rest of the system from ground current. It also simplifies troubleshooting and repair if you have discrete parts that can be replaced. Surge protection is a different function entirely. If you have a large surge protection device or "TVSS" near the service entrance, that can protect the whole rest of the system from transients from one location, but like in your home it's easier and cheaper to have a small one for each piece of sensitive electronics you have plugged in.

@testingtechtips thanks for getting back to me. I need to run a 20 amp outlet where there is no ground and I would like to have surge protection as well since I'm in high lightning storm area. So I just have to get it all separately it seems.

The easy way to start is to call up your local testing companies (you can search for them at netaworld.org) and see if they're hiring. Often guys with little or no experience can start in a breaker shop or motor shop and work their way out into the field, but PLC work is a pretty good background to slide right into real testing. Since it mostly requires on-the-job training anyway, no formal education is usually required. Just depends on what the company you're interviewing with is looking for. Positions open up all the time so it doesn't hurt to check back often. A lot of them even have remote positions open if you're willing to travel.

Thanks for the Info

Yes, that's exactly the plan! The next video coming up is testing a GE IAC with Protection Suite, I've got a Basler and couple SELs after that. It just takes me a long time to edit and post these. I'm a busy guy, not a professional RUclipsr or editor lol.

Totally understand thanks so much. I’ve been working at a utility company in the north east doing telecommunications and just a year ago, got hired into the field engineering test department. Totally different animal over here but of all the things the department does I love the relay work. Super cool. Thanks for your help do you have any good sources I should look into. Your videos are awesome.

Thanks!

I know! It's crazy how you can learn everything else on RUclips but not relay testing.

Yeah, they're definitely protective of their IP which was why I was hesitant to make this video in the first place. But they said I could in writing and I'm happy to share!

@@testingtechtips I always found distance relays a hard one to get around on Doble.

@@50Hz I have a video for that planned! It's going to take a bit to shoot, edit, and upload but it's coming I promise!

Thanks! I've learned so much from forums, friends, and RUclips over the years I'm really just trying to concentrate all that into a single resource here on the channel.

Nope, crickets from ABB other than a recommendation to perform IR scans and replace the breakers with hot lugs.

Hey the more you learn the more valuable you are when push comes to shove. Even if it's not "your job." Thanks for watching!

Glad you enjoyed it

There's nothing wrong with that.

@testingtechtips I see alot.of people say they take advantage of already having their windings shorted and do PF and megger back to back. Do you worry about megger magnetize your windings and effected your SFRA due to megger being a DC test?

@TrevorGoochFishing yes, absolutely. SFRA is a very sensitive test and performing Megger or winding resistance will skew your results. Winding resistance definitely has a more drastic effect but megger can as well.

I appreciate the support!

Lol the formulas are on the cheat sheet they give you so... maybe?

🤣 it's such a simple thing they could have fixed!

Thanks for watching!

🤣 no one likes that answer but that's the way it is!

That's a good point. It really shouldn't affect the megger readings one way or the other. If your power factor result is negative in the context of an insulation power factor test, it means the reading is more inductive than capacitive. Current flowing through/out of the winding under test is leading the voltage (remember ELI the ICE man). I'm not the all saying guru about every type of transformer, but every time I've seen a negative PF it's been because we hooked up the test set wrong, something wasn't grounded, or there was an internal winding issue like a bad DETC.

Thanks! I'm glad people find them useful

Thanks, will do!

I'm following the NETA MTS standard for this video. The only hi-pot/dielectric withstand test required for this type of breaker is the "vacuum bottle integrity" test which is primarily ensuring the contacts are effectively open. The DC insulation resistance(megger) tests verify everything else is good.

Thanks for your question. If the leakage current from line to load and ground is less than the max allowable leakage current across the bottle (if spec'd out) then the current exclusively from line to load is going to be less than that. This meets the NETA spec for the vacuum bottle integrity test. There is no NETA requirement to hi-pot phase-to-phase, and I've not seen a recommendation to perform that from any OEMs, though you should always check the manual first! We are required to perform DC insulation resistance (megger) tests phase-ground and phase-phase which I cover earlier in the video.

@@toastymotors There may not be a NETA requirement for phase to phase testing as the standards do defer to manufacturer's published data for dielectric withstand but with your testing method are you not also automatically including phase to phase testing by shorting all other phases to ground/frame? Back to the main point of my original comment, dielectric withstand would still have to include line and load of each phase to ground correct? With the method demonstrated you are not applying voltage to the load side of any phase with the hipot, effectively missing half of a normally energized insulation system per phase in your measurement. Enjoying the videos by the way.

Again, the only hi-pot/dielectric withstand test required by NETA is the vacuum bottle integrity test, so what I showed meets the requirement. I totally agree though, there's more that you MAY need to do. I know for like pole-mount reclosers the OEMs will spec out line->load and load->line tests but to the best of my knowledge that isn't required for any draw-out MV breaker.

lol it's on the customer end inside a hospital. But yeah.

@@testingtechtips And a great life hack for the temp control handle removal, but this would be frowned upon in some companies. I’ve tested hundreds and hundreds of EM, solid state and MP relays and never had a misfortune to accidentally bump the control handle. I prefer to use the plain Jain white masking tape over the control switch, that worked for me for many years.

Yes* I've had good luck with it working by moving the DCS/DTE switch, BUT I've had a few guys tell me it doesn't work on older GE relays. Not sure why. I always keep a C662 and a separate generic RS232 cable (I recommend one from Startech.com cause I know it's good quality), a null modem adapter, and gender bender in my go-bag just in case.

Excellent question, I'm not sure. I changed jobs and now I don't have easy access to a breaker test set or a shop full of parts. I'm making every effort to arrange that for a video but it's going to take a some time, unfortunately.

Thanks, will do!

The GE FTC-058 is a standard ABB pattern "flexitest" test switch. Looks like they're only using the middle 8 positions but a standard ABB or 10-pole states test switch will work fine.

I chose my words poorly. There is nothing inherently different between "commercial" and "industrial" according to NEC and so 240.87 technically would apply to industrial facilities with equipment over 1200A. In speaking generally, a facility with a medium voltage service will (typically) have a relay and fast enough breaker or some other means to limit the arcing current, meaning maintenance mode isn't (typically) relevant for heavy industry.

Can't hack the network if there's no network lmao.

😂

Yeah, hooking contact sense up on a separate phase would probably make it time more accurately. I've never seen anyone do that in the field but it makes sense!

Sick! Good luck!

Yeah it's hard to get a full grip of maintenance mode in general since so many sources only give you little bits of info for a single system.

Thanks! I'll keep them coming!

Lol

Thanks 👍

Thanks!