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Too many variables to say for sure. Trust your CL log. Narrow bands O2s are more accurate and that's what your ECM uses to control fueling.

Are you talking about what value to put in my EOIT tool, or in general to populate the entire table in the tune file itself? If you are talking about my tool, go to the "Injector Offset vs Pres Delta vs IGNV" table and average the 4 values in your idle area....12-13v and 388-408 KPa. Should probably be in the .90 to 1.1 ms range.

@@SilverSurfer77 Yes I was talking about the value to put in the software. In my case durin idle (car in park) my car battery is 14.6V (module voltage) and and my MAP value read +/- 50 kPa. From where you get the Delta value of 388-408 kPa? By the way thank you for take the time to answer.

​@@darkzero6282fuel pressure on most Gen4s is 400 kpa. So if your MAP is 50 kpa at idle, the delta pressure is 400-50=350 kpa.

@@SilverSurfer77 thanks :)

That's a good question. I think it's more accurate for a factory cam setup where you have minimal overlap and tame IVC angle. By accurate I mean the ability for the equation to emulate the shape. The real limiting factor for accuracy is that we are limited to 30 zones. Especially if you are boosted then the zone size increases to very large areas. It would be nice to have like 60-100 zones to really define the shape much better. But VVE is anyways a "close enough" game to fill in the gaps during transient throttle where MAF is playing catch up.

@ Can I use vve for turbo? I don't use conversion to 2 bar os?

@promobass77 yes. Since VVE is based on math, the RPM and MAP breakpoints can be scaled infinitely large or small.

@@SilverSurfer77 Where can I see an example of a vve table for a turbo engine?

The short answer is that the coefficients, MAP and RPM are plugged into a math equation and that equation spits out the airmass. I made this video to explain in case you want to know the full answer. ruclips.net/video/pZ7i9c0sCN8/видео.html

@ Now I understand, thank you very much!

I don't worry so much about cell hits for MAF (for VVE it is much more important IMHO). For MAF I like to hold each cell and I watch the value change. At first it changes a lot and changes rapidly. After a second or two you will see it start to settle on a final number. I also prefer to drive for at least 30 minutes, but 45 minutes even better, with a slow and smooth throttle pedal input. After 45 minutes you should have enough MAF cell counts no matter what. AND none of this counts until the engine...I should say OIL...temp is at full temp. A simple drive around the block on a cold motor isn't going to work if you want the best data which leads to the best results.

10/4. So MAF will stay at default. What would you say is a good number for VVE? I appreciate you!

@@stevenwilliams263 when you first start on your VVE quest more cell hits is important....perhaps 50-100. Once you start to tame the shape after a few revisions, then you can reduce that down to say 10-20 hits. When you look at the RPM and MAP breakpoints there is a HUGE amount of averaging going on in the scanner for each cell, so I look at the VVE scanner data as clues to the shape it wants. I am just looking for a trend that I can interpret the final shape.

Video description has the link. It is an EXE though, not a spreadsheet.

@@brandonblair7838 my man! Thank you for the kind words!

Moving voltage up will richen the mixture. Don't expect huge changes though.

Once you go llama, you'll never go back!

@TheSikkCustoms ha! Man idk if I can.... just the way I was built.

@chevyno1740 shifting at peak is shifting too early. A 6400 peak and then a drop of 1000 rpms on the shift is a 500 rpm spread. So assuming the HP curve is symmetrical (which it never is) that would mean shifting at 6900 rpm (and dropping to 5900 rpm after the shift). Of course this all requires the proper mechanical parts. ARP rod bolts etc. Also the 1.8 rockers will probably cause loss of valve control. Generally most aftermarket cams are not designed for larger rockers and often times produce worse results. Not saying this is happening on your combo but something to keep in mind.

@@SilverSurfer77 I agree on shifting too early - just not sure how high I can take it. Rod bolts it seems is the only thing I am missing. The cam (Cam Motion) was spec'd for the 1.8 rockers, so lift is only .585. I think I could probably bring it up to 6700-6800 and be good from all I have read on the subject.

​@chevyno1740 a stock LS3 *should* be able to reach 6700 safely. If the rockers a roller tip that is more weight in the wrong place btw and can cause issues as well.

@@SilverSurfer77 Thanks - I think next spring I will play with shift point and see how it goes. I have Comp Cams Ultra-Pro Magnum rockers with the arch in the arm, which I understand takes care of that issue.

Not sure. I've not heard of this.

@@SilverSurfer77 huh. I've seen some mention of it on old hpt board posts. I can put any number in b1 or b2 R/l table and the cold adder and nothing happens. if I change the max and min from 450 in both, to what I've seen in other tunes 41mv and trims go straight lean and stall the car at 20:1 within seconds.

Unfortunately the PIDs they map for each OS is hit and miss. i was lucky that they got the good ones. You can request them to add it, but expect them to say no. As far as I know they are DONE with anything Gen4 related.

Hantek 6022BE $65. You can download the software from their website. Seems like at some point people created their own open source software for it, but I cannot find it. www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B686H8ZT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8

lol

lol i'll get right on it!

I would definitely recommend spending your money on a cam swap and stroker kit. You will need better flowing heads too and long tube headers.

Tuning is my brake lol

@@stebevs yes my car was like that from the factory too. But oems are balancing a different set of factors than we are doing with an aftermarket cam with more overlap.

@SilverSurfer77 ahh I thought that slope was your factory setting. So we should all be inverting our data essentially? Additionally I absolutely love how you break the aspects of tuning down to the underlying mathematical methods and theories. I've learned more in the last few months watching your videos than I have learned over years of other random youtubers videos.

@@stebevs the upward trend is what I recommend, but that is really based on logic and NOT actually dyno or emissions testing. I would LOVE to have my own garage dyno to verify this. The unfortunate part is that most tuners do not have the knowledge, interest, or time to dial in the EOIT for idle, part throttle, and WOT. Also, thank you for the compliment! When I started tuning was I expecting to find a wealth of information and how videos, but nothing existed. So I was forced to learn and I decided to fix the knowledge gap myself.

@SilverSurfer77 i expected the same. There is so much conflicting information out there based on what I can see as personal preference and less on actual logic. It's a game of 1s and 0s and you're the first I've seen break it down as such. I'm going to try your curve and see if it solves my horrible idle exhaust fumes I've been trying to remedy for years.

Thank you for supporting the channel! I truly appreciate the donation!

Whoa that is crazy and excellent observation! I did not notice that on that tune!

This is a great question and one that I didn't talk about in the last big EOIT video...didn't want to make a long video even longer. I have spent some time thinking about this and have come up with a theory. No idea if I am right or wrong, so let me know what you think. The real question to me is, why did GM define a cranking modifier table (N. RPM) to go up to 4,000 rpms? In my mind this is because the driver may be pedaling the engine trying to get to start. Maybe the engine is old and hard to start, or battery is weak, or who knows. So basically when this happens the engine will roar to life and RPMs will flare higher and faster than the ECM can switch out of cranking mode and before start up flare spark control can be applied. During cranking mode the FA1 multiplier will be in effect making the pulse width longer. As you know a longer IPW at higher RPMs mean the pulse occurs of a longer period of crank degrees. So having the N. RPM table (which I also *ASSUME* is in cam degrees and should be x2 just like the ECT tables) will move SOI and EOIT sooner to align the fueling with the valve events. As we all know, engine start up is the most polluting time of the engine cycle - cats are not hot enough to work and engine is still in OL. So controlling EOIT is the next best thing to try to prevent fuel short circuiting as much as possible, or at least making some attempt at emissions compliance. It could also be to prevent back fires, popping, over heating cats in the case of super rich OL mixtures and retarded timing for RPM flare control. I don't think we will ever know the real reason from a GM source, but this is my theory. What say you?

@SilverSurfer77 that was my first thought but how often do you have a flare on startup more than 1400ish?

@@04silverado6.0 on a properly tuned and mechanically sound car 1400 is normal. But what if you have vacuum lean and/or leaky fuel injector?

Because this allows me to dial in the low, mid, and high RPM areas very precisely. The downside is that you loose make up mode. At low RPM I am trying to spray early right after EVC. At mid RPMs I am trying to spray halfway through PPV. At high RPMs I am trying to finish spraying right before IVC so all the fuel goes into the cylinder. During CL I am concerned about SOI. During PE I am worried about EOI. The only thing N. ECT does is build some space between Boundary and EOIT where you can squeeze a Make Up pulse in. I have not found a clean way to get the SOI and EOI that I want and fit a make up pulse all within the same injection window (before IVC). For low temps, (below 154º) you need to spray sooner to allow the fuel to sit on the valve so whatever heat is being made is transferred to the fuel so it atomizes better in the cold engine.

@@SilverSurfer77 What's the downside to not having makeup mode operating?

@@mootavic4973 M/U attempts to prevent a lean condition from ever occurring. Waiting for combustion and O2 sensor signals and then a fueling correction takes a long time. This is the perspective of a tuner...trying to get a perfect tune and airflow model...but is not cognizant of emissions. From the OEM perspective, it is ALL about emissions. A slightly lean combustion produces more NOx compounds. A very learn condition produces more unburned hydrocarbons (think misfire).

There are 4 different EOIT modes. Normal RPM is only used for the Cranking routine (this is why it only goes to 4000 rpm while the Boundary table goes to 8000 rpm). I outline the different modes and the formulas used in this video: ruclips.net/video/FmdJOOUUqQg/видео.html

I have been asked to make a tool for the Gen3 stuff, but too busy with everything else. There are Gen3 spreadsheet calcs out there, but I have no idea if the overall strategy is the same (N. RPM is for cranking, and N. ECT is doubled).

It is aimed at Gen4 GM ECMs and needed if you have an aftermarket camshaft.

@@SilverSurfer77 I have an stock L96 (e78) in my swap so I consider my subscription a future investment :)

@@Labergemusic sounds like a great investment!

One small injector pulse on 540 to 720 compression stroke right

I think the answer to your comment deservers a full video response, but I am not going to do that at this time. You are correct. Basic MAF tuning is simple. But ask yourself this question, "What is the difference between a guy who has been tuning for a month vs the professional who has been tuning for years? How do they tune the MAF differently?" The professional will wait for the car to get in closed loop, and wait for the coolant and oil to get to full operating temperature, and drive with a slow and steady throttle input...and he will also use filters in the scanner to filter out junk data. Other than that their methods are very similar. What does the average tuner (or person in general) know or care about statistics and data sampling? Not much if I had to guess. However, the tuner in the above scenario did use the Scanner filter formula to filter out junk data! So part of him understands that statistics is important. The MAF Assistant takes this concept to the next level. The goal of this tool, and all the tools I write is to get you, not to just get to a "done tuning state", but rather a "perfect" tune state quicker and easier. Now you referred to me as my forum name, Cringer. So surely you have read my signature line, which states: A standard approach will give you standard results. I am not looking for standard, basic, quick, or everyone does it this way types of approaches. I am always on a quest to learn and do more, so if you have new ideas to contribute and share, I am all ears!

Yeah that sounds great! Feel free to email me at dankunkel at gmail Thanks!

@@SilverSurfer77 email sent!

Factory sealed 6L80E and factory sealed 3.27 LSD diff.