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hi there, good video, i have all the books on this line which are hard to get now,the "rattler was the DMU" not the steam loco and rolling stock,all first generation dmu's used to rattle.the dmu on this line was a park royal 2 car set,final service from belmont wasthe13,39 to harrow,in 1951 a fowler2-6-2t locowas used.these were based at watford shed,if you were lucky a Bowden- Cooke 0-8-0 tank loco could be seen running up to stanmore,

Another excellent video. I've often been curious about this line. All the best from Kuala Lumpur.

Great video. I've shared it onto my Threads account.

I recall seeing a single car DMU at Belmont in the early 60’s and can remember the station at Stanmore Village

I mapped some of London’s lost lines, including this one, here: www.google.com/mymaps/viewer?mid=19ORudIUHIDnlQqMZXF38xCma_CR0C3rN&hl=en

I would reopen the line as a tramway. This tramway would stretch from Harrow & Wealdstone/Bushey on the west to Finsbury Park/Alexandra Palace on the east. The tramway would take the former platform at Harrow & Wealdstone and split it into two like at Wimbledon. The Harrow branch would call at the intermediate stops of Bryton Park, Belmont & Stanmore Village. The Bushey Branch would called at the intermediate stops of The Grange, Melbourne Road, High Bushey, The Common and Stanmore Hill. The Harrow and Bushey branches would join up at a junction by the interchange by Sainsbury near Stanmore Hill. The Finsbury Park branch would call at the intermediate stations of Stroud Green, Ashmount, Stanhope Road and Highgate. The Alexandra Palace branch would have stations at Cranley Green, Muswell Hill and Alexandra Park. The Finsbury Park and Alexandra Palace branch would join up at a junction by Highgate Depot. Where they would run togther and calling at the intermediate stations of: East Finchley, Long Lane Pasture, Finchley Central, Dollis Brook, Mill Hill East, Chase Lodge, Mill Hill Broadway, Edgware Broadway, Park Grove and Stanmore. There would be a possibility of also doing a Edgware Town branch would would come off the joint running between Park Grove and Edgware Broadway on a triangle Junction. The Edgware Town Branch would have intermediate stations at Edgware, Holland House, London Gateway, Elstree Fields, Elstree & Borehamwood, Elstree Studio, Elstree Industrial, Hertsmere and Hertsmere North. The tramway would reuse the old tunnels by Highgate as well as the Northern Heights alignment. It would take over the Northern Line Mill Hill East Branch. There would be an extra pair tracks built for tram between Finchley Central and Finchley East. Each service would operate at 4tph off peak and 6tph in the peak, so there would be four services without the Edgware town branch. With the Edgware Town Branch there would be eight services running at 4tph all day due to the mixed traffic nature of the line it is no possible to run at more than 24tph on the streets with traffic hence to provide 12tph on each branch while providing a direct link to branches on the without Edgeware Town and three branches with Edgeware Town. If you would like the maps, I made please do feel free ask then I can send them across in the best way.

I went everywhere on the Belmont Rattler, lived in the same road as it! Very sad when it closed in October 1964.

The station house at Stanmore is still there

We used to know it as the The Belmont Rattler in the 1950's and often played on the almost disused track. I can recall seeing the odd goods train, just a couple of carriages.

What a treat to see such a thoroughly detailed and well researched video about my very very very local area! (The street I grew up on got mentioned!!) I’ve given this old line a lot of thought. While it’s always sad to see a railway closed, with my sensible hat on, this does seem to be one of the very few cases where Beeching was right to close it. Having to change at Harrow and Wealdstone to get to central London would never be able to compete with the Jubilee line. Also, the 186 is more frequent (and, from what I’ve read, probably faster!) than the Rattler ever was. Thanks for making such a great video! 🙂

I worked as a surveyor for Harrow Council in the 1980s and had a bit to do with setting up the Belmont Trail walkway (keeping the route free of dumping and encroachments at that stage). You mention that the trail stops at Vernon Drive and that was the site of a rare foot-crossing on London's railways, allowing walkers to access Wemborough Road.

A lot of people living in belmont either drive, get dropped off or take the bus to Preston road or Northwick Park for a quick met line into the city 😊

Fantastic, well researched video. I’ve done extensive reading about this former line to learn more about local history. You’ve summed it up so well. Thank you.

I hope you get to make a video on the Croxley and Rickmansworth lines that were almost reopened as part of the plan to extend the Met to an actually useful station in Watford. The whole story of the Met and LNWR in the Watford area is fascinating to me and I was studying near there back in 2010-13 when the plan to extend the Met looked like it might go ahead. Also, the Alban Way is a great orbital route that might warrant a video; I've walked it and it's a nice hike (except for the bit where the M1 cuts across your path).

Bishops Avenue, the naffest place to live in London.

Interesting - I hadn't realised it had ever had a service every 10 minutes, even in the peaks! As you say, it would probably be difficult to rebuild the line as it was. The least good bit of the transport network in the area is getting from H&W to HotH - there are frequent buses, but ithey take ages for the less than two miles, which a rail connection would probably do in three minutes. But that would have to be underground! Perhaps it might be possible as part of a new/re-opened north London orbital rail route: Harrow-on-the-Hill > H&W > Stanmore (Jub) > Edgware > Mill Hilll B'way (T-link/WLO) > Mill Hill E > Finchley Ctrl > E.Finchley > Highgate (surface level) > Crouch End > Stroud Gn > Finsbury Pk. Personally I'd then join it to the Piccadilly, giving that line two branches at its north-east end, to match its two branches in the west; that would also make any tunnelling cheaper - tube sized. But it could also join the Overground - perhaps re-using the Palace Gates line. Look forward to your next video

I remember playing on the remnants of the Rattler as a child, before it was a trail. With my friends, I would cycle up from Kenton Park to Belmont to thrash a few hundred yards through the jungle towards Stanmore. My first Saturday job was with Donaldsons Estate Agents on Belmont Circle

Great video..Belmont history in particular.. except for locals it's hard to believe the line was built in the first place!...I'm close to Harrow leisure centre (Trial beginning)- which is relatively poorly served - As u said buses are ok - also incl 324 at Stanmore & H19 at Belmont. Any time delays can be offset by fast trains to Central London

good vid g

How else are the staff expected to get to work?

There is a proposal to push the tramway on from New Addington to Biggin Hill Valley. As always it's a question of money.

The 146 runs an efficient schedule to get an hourly service out of 1 bus. Extending the route to Biggin Hill would add 30 minutes to the round trip time, meaning either reducing the frequency to 90 minutes, or running more buses. You could viably have 3 buses interworking the 146 and R8, running Bromley > Biggin Hill > Orpington > Biggin Hill > Bromley on a 3-hour cycle, giving an hourly service on each route and a half-hourly service between Downe and Biggin Hill, but that seems like overkill for the very low passenger numbers. A village like that in Not London would be lucky to get 3 or 4 buses a day, at best!

This was one of the first LT bus route Awarded om competitive tender. When Crystal's won the route in the 80s

Thanks for covering this delightful route. Growing up around Sevenoaks, this was not unfamiliar territory, and I remember double-deck RTs on the 146 which ran, I'm sure, more often than half-hourly. For the present, I would have thought that more frequent buses would generate more passengers. It is great though that the timetable is from 6am to nearly midnight. Maybe better, though, to increase the R8 to hourly and have it connect reasonably with the 146. I know that TfL are probably wrestling with the practicalities of staff schedules and how to get quarts out of pint-pots, but this is an era when we need to get people out of cars and into public transport, and frequency is a key generator of custom - even on rural routes. And for individual passengers, their travel needs are mostly the same whether they live on an urban estate or in a cottage down a lane. What I'd really like is for TfL to use the bus numbering system to give an idea of frequency - like the 600 series are generally school buses. So maybe 500s for hourly, 400s for half-hourly, 300s for quarter-hourly etc.. I'm not sure that the letter prefixes (R etc.) have ever stood for anything useful! But to look at a bus map, or the list of route numbers on a bus stop flag, and to be able to see immediately which buses are most likely to come soon, would make bus travel a lot easier and more popular.

Another little route to add to my list of ones you do a video on - going to do all of these just because I can really... Also, love how the shot of the red car on the corner shows it has a parking ticket

I literally did this the other day

re Brentford: only a minor addition, but in 2014 the Didcot steam centre ran their Steam Railmotor up and down the line for a weekend - ruclips.net/video/eL-CudtGfEk/видео.html. I guess with ther Southall depot still in use by West Coast Railways (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southall_Railway_Centre), heritage trips would be possible at weekend, but like anything, it needs the effort and money. The GWRPG folded in 2021.

It’s Mose-ley, not Moserley; Bordes-ley, not Bordersley. And economy, not e-conomy. Not a bad vid, but not sure about the commentary though.

I worked on the development of Tramlink from 1989 so have some background knowledge. Woodside to Selsdon closed in 1983 due to low passenger numbers. Addiscombe also had very low passenger numbers due to its location and with East Croydon offering faster and more frequent services to London, but Woodside had better use. The Addiscombe to Elmers End line only survived because the EPB stock was stabled at Addiscombe, and British Rail already had plans to close the branch once the new trains were in service. Closure would have happened with or without the Tramlink project. One of the objectives of Tramlink was to improve links between Croydon and Bromley borough, so use of the line to Elmers End was an obvious option, which also kept a service to Woodside (with the branch to Beckenham Junction added later during the project development). We considered a route option that would use the branch through to Addiscombe Station, but that would then have required street running of trams on Clyde Road (southbound) and Canning Road (northbound) to reach Addiscombe Road and East Croydon. So following the then-disused Selsdon Line provided a better option, and which also connected with the route to New Addington.

Breerly Hill???????????????????

Not that complex with the superloop buses now, but orbital trains would be useful

Excellent video my friends awesome like 👍🏻 Greeting from Argentina nuevo subcritor suscribete 😊

Interesting, I wasn't aware of the Addiscombe plans as I only moved to the area in 2010 and Blackhorse Lane is now my local tram stop. It was nice to see a photo of Woodside in the steam days.

First time I've ever heard anyone say ceased the same as seized.

If the Croxley Rail Link (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croxley_Rail_Link) ever gets built (yes, I know, dream on), a heritage railway from Croxley to Watford (Met) would probably be a great success given its proximity to Cassiobury Park with its miniature railway, as well as the River Colne and various other recreational amenities.

Great work, once again. Here's the link to Part 1, covering Grove Park-Bromley North and Custom House-North Woolwich: ruclips.net/video/aKXmVd8RWA8/видео.html

How do i get envoled in heritage railways? Best Regards Terence.

The extension to Brentford SWR would need a new bridge across the Thames with clearance for navigation. Probably a non starter because of the cost (the only thing that matters today).

Really enjoyed this!

also i must add, the true numbers are far higher because of how many people do not tap to use the line

when i used to go to school in grove park the line was well used by students that were going to bromley after school (me included) and commuters coming in from central that lived in around the residential area in sundrige park and those wanting to go into bromley (im assuming those that dont work near victoria)

I have got two of these class319 in model form now I have heard what they sound like since these models have fitted speakers as standard I am going to buy a pair of sound decoders for both of my 319s

I have two of these 319 in model form courtesy of Graham Farish it is an excellent model

Acton to Hanwell, the 607 bus would still be preferable over the train via Old Oak Common. Supposing at Old Oak they go for a people mover, that journey's actually 2 changes: first at Acton Wells onto the people mover, then at Old Oak Common to Crossrail. Now imagine they don't build a people mover.

Old Oak Common is not going to be a great interchange. It's not going to be the Clapham Junction of the northwest. At best it's going to be London's answer to Montparnasse, with a super-travelator connecting the different parts; at worst they won't even build a travelator and it will be more like trying to change between the different stations in central Birmingham or between Euston and King's Cross.

Very few people are going to change at Harlesden instead of Willesden Junction if they have to walk down Winchelsea Road. In-fact it's a joke not calling the station Craven Park but naming it Harlesden as though it's another West Hampstead. If I were wanting to go from Acton to Wembley Central and the first train was via Dudding Hill, I would skip it & wait for the Stratford train a few minutes after.

The main orbital routes in this area like the 260, 266 and 460 used to be trolleybuses. When the trolleybus network was de-electrified in the early 1960s, London Transport kept finding out that in practice, trolleybuses are a higher order of transport than buses even if they aren't on paper. A stumbling block to trolleybus replacement was that London's trolleybuses accommodated around a dozen more passengers than a Routemaster. On the scale at which London Buses operated 60 years ago, this meant that more buses were required, leading not only to a shortage of stabling space but also to a staff shortage, because LT didn't have the budget to pay crews attractive wages, which it never fully resolved until the Routemasters were replaced with one-man-operated buses. TfL is still notorious for being virtually allergic to upgrading a route to a higher order of transit: the forthcoming rollout of Irizars with tram-style bodies on the 227 is about the closest we've got since the New Addington commuter express bus became a tram. Compared with Paris, Berlin and New York, London relies heavily on bog-standard buses running in mixed traffic. Services in the missing middle between buses & heavy rail, like the Croydon Tramlink and East London Transit, are sporadic.

Saying that development is needed to justify improvements to transport such as a new station reminds me of when service providers like banks & broadband companies have offers that you can only benefit from if you're not already with them.

New platforms at West Hampstead wouldn't actually require land take south of the line. North of the line is just a Builder Depot and some disused land. • Up Metropolitan moved into short new tunnel under West End Lane immediately adjacent to Heritage Lane & Blackburn Road, serving the north side of island platform 9/10 Up Underground. • Existing platform becomes 11/12 Down Underground. • Up GCML slewed north onto road currently occupied by Down Metropolitan, with island platform 13/14 serving National Rail. The entire station would be 50 yards wide, about the same as Harrow-on-the-Hill station, and with effectively the same layout.

Just watched this again a couple of times - picking up bits I'd missed - really good video! You are right to identify the level-crossings dilemma. Green Signals podcast recently highlighted the safety benefits of getting rid of them, but level-crossings do also pose a limit to the expansion of services - critically important if the aim (rightly) is to get 80% of journeys made by train and bus. Eliminating a crossing is expensive, but against the cost should be set: 1 - the value of saving lives/injuries, plus distress to drivers (which has a cost) 2 - the increased revenue from a higher level of service possible when a crossing is removed 3 - the community benefits from improved train (passenger and freight) and bus/lorry services (climate, air quality, congestion) 4 - savings to bus operators from buses no longer delayed 5 - the value of car/lorry drivers' time (long used as an argument for motorway building) Another source of money might be - if the best solution is to put the railway underground - from the land value of the current rail trace: possibly housing, but certainly industrial - or even urban farming use. Also, there are a number of level-crossings needing elimination - as you point out - so there may be economies of scale in having a 'rolling programme'. You are right that West Hampstead would - network-wise - be ideal for a Chiltern+Met station, but how about Neasden? The Met can already stop there, and if the Chiltern platforms were built between the Met/Jubilee ones and the new WLO station, that would save the cost of a walkway. And it would be a quick and easy change for Chiltern passengers to get to the West Hampstead hub. As regards extending the WLO, how about from Hounslow to Kingston, via Twickenham, where the trains would reverse? There appears to be room, east of Kingston, for a reversing siding - perhaps between the running lines, as at Rayners Lane. Also maybe Cricklewood to Mill Hill Broadway, also extending the Northern tube-line from Mill Hill East to the disused station adjacent to the southern end of the Broadway platforms, and possibly a new station where the MML crosses over the Northern tube-line Hampstead Branch - distressingly disconnected from the rest of the NW London rail network! Old Oak Common Lane, as well as giving interchange with the Elizabeth line, is also not far from North Acton in the Central line. A further interchange could be at a new 'Acton Junction' station where the Pic+District crosses over the WLO, maybe with platforms also on the Gunnersbury lines. All this could sort out Acton's rail-mess, so that you could get from any of Acton's nine stations to any other, with only one change of train! Last idea - how about joining/splitting the two services (Hounslow-W.Hamp. and Kew Bridge-Cricklewood) so that they travel the common part of their journeys together? The old Southern Railway was keen on this and used to do it at Haywards Heath in 2 minutes. The current Southern are slower - 10 minutes at Horsham - but I gather the Berlin S-Bahn can join or split in 2 minutes!