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SomeNorthLondoner
Добавлен 11 авг 2019
Welcome to my channel! On this channel I’ll usually post content relating to all sorts of transport and London content in general, hope you enjoy!
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The Railway Built For A Country Retreat? Britain's Lost Railways - Episode 2
Welcome back to the second episode of my “Britain’s Lost Railways” series, where we’ll be looking at the Stanmore Rattler - a railway that once ran between Harrow and Wealdstone and Stanmore Village, that was built with the purpose of serving the Bentley Priory, a country retreat that had been established by a successful hotelier just outside of Stanmore. In this video we’ll be looking at the history of the railway, discussing the areas that it passed through and looking at why the railway inevitably came to an end. If you liked this video, make sure to like it, subscribe to my channel and share this video. This all massively helps me out when you do.
As I say in most videos, not all photo...
As I say in most videos, not all photo...
Просмотров: 3 963
Видео
There's A Bus Route To Charles Darwin's? London’s Awkward Routes: Episode 5 - The 146
Просмотров 71614 дней назад
The 146. A relatively unknown route in the grand scheme of things, but an enjoyable one to ride at that. It travels from Bromley North to Downe whilst navigating through Bromley Town Centre, Hayes and Keston. It operates on an hourly frequency and is operated by Stagecoach London out of their base in Bromley North using short Enviro200 MMCs. In this video, I'll be discussing the route, the hist...
The London Heritage Railways That Were Never Meant To Be: Part 2
Просмотров 6 тыс.21 день назад
The first video I did on this got an excellent response from you guys, and given there were two that I hadn't included in the first part I thought it'd be best to do a follow up video for you all. In this video we discuss the Brentford Branch Line and the Addiscombe Branch, two railways that were meant to see an entire or partial conversion to a heritage railway that never followed through in t...
London’s Overlooked Transport Project: The West London Orbital
Просмотров 19 тыс.Месяц назад
London’s got a new transport project in the pipeline, so here’s my video on it! The West London Orbital is a project proposed to operate from North to South West London. I’ll make sure to discuss the histories of the stretches of tracks used, the areas that the project will pass through and benefit, how likely the project is to go ahead and what I would improve. If you like this style of conten...
London's Two Least Used Bus Routes: London's Awkward Routes - Episode 4
Просмотров 1,1 тыс.2 месяца назад
I'm sure most of you will have heard about the 389 and 399 which both creep around Barnet for only 5 hours a day. These two routes operate on hourly frequencies and are both perfect for me to cover in this video. It's been about 30 years since the introduction of the current 399 and it has been 28 years since what ended up as part of current 389 when the two routes were at one stage merged with...
(NEW!) Liverpool's Forgotten Suburban Railway: Britain's Lost Railways - Episode 1
Просмотров 5 тыс.2 месяца назад
Welcome to my first episode of Britain's Lost Railways! Today I'll be discussing the North Liverpool Extension Line, a railway once traversing through much of Liverpool suburbia from Hunts Cross and Halewood to Aintree Central until the 1960s when the majority of it was shut, bar the Gateacre stub which closed in 1972. This series I hope many of you are looking forward to me making videos on, I...
The London Heritage Railways That Were Never Meant To Be: Why Not?
Просмотров 18 тыс.4 месяца назад
Heritage Railways to many are synonymous with the countryside, although there have been 2 railway lines in London that were meant to see a conversion to heritage railway operation, but weren't converted in the end. Why not? In this video I'll be covering why they weren't, the history of these two railways, what prompted the suggestion for them to be and whether or not heritage railways in Londo...
The Day Route That Was Never Meant To Be? The 603 - London’s Awkward Routes: Epsiode 3
Просмотров 2,3 тыс.4 месяца назад
You've probably not heard much about the 603, to many it's just a school route. However there is quite a lot to know about this bus route, the history behind it politically and the importance of it for the 20 years or so its been in operation. As the title suggests, the 603 has always had frequent calls for it to be made a 7-day-a-week all day service over the years...although it's never quite ...
London’s Billionaire's Row Has A Bus Route? The H3 - London’s Awkward Routes: Episode 2
Просмотров 6 тыс.5 месяцев назад
The H3 is a well known route among enthusiasts for its hourly service 6 days a week for only 7 hours a day. However, there's a lot to be learnt about from this route and so in this video, I'll be taking you through the history of the H3, the areas in which it passes through, how the service could be improved, and what makes the service "awkward". If you like this video, make sure to like, subsc...
Reviewing South London's Newest Express Bus Route: The SL3
Просмотров 1,7 тыс.5 месяцев назад
The SL3 is perhjaps my favourite Superloop route, introduced on the 24th of February 2024 to operate between Bromley North Station and Thamesmead Town Centre. This service passes through Bickley, Chislehurst, Sidcup, Bexleyheath and Abbey Wood, operating on an every 10-13 minute headway Monday to Friday using New Routemasters based out of Stagecoach London's Bromley Garage. In this video, I'll ...
Birmingham's New £60m Railway Project: A Look At The Camp Hill Line
Просмотров 24 тыс.6 месяцев назад
The Camp Hill Line is a project that has been proposed for the best part of the last two decades by Birmingham City Council, however after being postponed for a few years, the project is finally expected to open at the end of this year. In this video, I'll be taking a look at the areas served by the proposed project, the benefits and negatives of this project, and how I believe the project will...
Heading Back To Bedlam On The SL5... - Reviewing London's Newest Bus Route
Просмотров 1 тыс.6 месяцев назад
Hello everyone, Sorry for the extremely late upload. My PC decided to delete all the audio from the version I intended on uploading a few days ago, so I chose to restart the project it so that explains the delay. Anyway, many of you might know what the SL5 is, you may have even been on it by this point. But how much do you know about the surrounding areas? How much do you know about the histori...
Why did the Watford DC Line run into the East End?
Просмотров 12 тыс.7 месяцев назад
The Watford DC Line parallels the West Coast Main Line for much of its route and is very synonymous with London Euston to many rail enthusiasts. However, there was a time throughout much of the 19th and 20th century, even as late as 1992, where the Watford DC line didn't terminate at just Euston, and instead terminated elsewhere, two of the locations being in the East End which many would find ...
The Bus Route To Mr Churchill's? - Walking the 246
Просмотров 1,9 тыс.7 месяцев назад
I'm sure plenty of you know who Mr Churchill is and are aware of his country house situated in Kent. However, how many of you know the bus service that feeds passengers into Chartwell during the Summer on Sundays? Well, in this video I'll be explaining the history of the 246, the areas in which it passes through and generally things that I like about the route (a lot). If you like this kind of ...
I Explored The Thames Valley On A Day Ranger, And You Should Too!
Просмотров 4,4 тыс.7 месяцев назад
(Apologies for the 3 day late upload) The Thames Valley has extremely picturesque towns and villages, and this day ranger encapsulates all of that, and makes for a fun day trip out! In this video, I will be detailing the history of each of the branches we travelled on, how busy the service was and various proposals that have come about as to how to improve each of them. I hope this is an enjoya...
London's Parliamentary Bus Service? - Awkward Routes: Episode 1
Просмотров 20 тыс.8 месяцев назад
London's Parliamentary Bus Service? - Awkward Routes: Episode 1
Reviewing North London's Second Newest Express Route: The SL1
Просмотров 2,3 тыс.8 месяцев назад
Reviewing North London's Second Newest Express Route: The SL1
Visiting London's Brand New Mainline Station: Brent Cross West
Просмотров 7408 месяцев назад
Visiting London's Brand New Mainline Station: Brent Cross West
Grove Park to Bromley North: A Branch Line With An Uncertain Future
Просмотров 7 тыс.8 месяцев назад
Grove Park to Bromley North: A Branch Line With An Uncertain Future
A Review of North London's Brand New Express Route: The SL10
Просмотров 2,4 тыс.8 месяцев назад
A Review of North London's Brand New Express Route: The SL10
Out With The Old, In With The New: The Story of the Class 319s
Просмотров 3,3 тыс.8 месяцев назад
Out With The Old, In With The New: The Story of the Class 319s
[LAST DAY TRIBUTE] Route 271: Highgate Village - Moorgate, Finsbury Square
Просмотров 441Год назад
[LAST DAY TRIBUTE] Route 271: Highgate Village - Moorgate, Finsbury Square
hi there, good video, i have all the books on this line which are hard to get now,the "rattler was the DMU" not the steam loco and rolling stock,all first generation dmu's used to rattle.the dmu on this line was a park royal 2 car set,final service from belmont wasthe13,39 to harrow,in 1951 a fowler2-6-2t locowas used.these were based at watford shed,if you were lucky a Bowden- Cooke 0-8-0 tank loco could be seen running up to stanmore,
Another excellent video. I've often been curious about this line. All the best from Kuala Lumpur.
Thanks so much!
Great video. I've shared it onto my Threads account.
Thanks so much :)
I recall seeing a single car DMU at Belmont in the early 60’s and can remember the station at Stanmore Village
Oh nice. Must’ve been really cool to have experienced in person!
I mapped some of London’s lost lines, including this one, here: www.google.com/mymaps/viewer?mid=19ORudIUHIDnlQqMZXF38xCma_CR0C3rN&hl=en
I would reopen the line as a tramway. This tramway would stretch from Harrow & Wealdstone/Bushey on the west to Finsbury Park/Alexandra Palace on the east. The tramway would take the former platform at Harrow & Wealdstone and split it into two like at Wimbledon. The Harrow branch would call at the intermediate stops of Bryton Park, Belmont & Stanmore Village. The Bushey Branch would called at the intermediate stops of The Grange, Melbourne Road, High Bushey, The Common and Stanmore Hill. The Harrow and Bushey branches would join up at a junction by the interchange by Sainsbury near Stanmore Hill. The Finsbury Park branch would call at the intermediate stations of Stroud Green, Ashmount, Stanhope Road and Highgate. The Alexandra Palace branch would have stations at Cranley Green, Muswell Hill and Alexandra Park. The Finsbury Park and Alexandra Palace branch would join up at a junction by Highgate Depot. Where they would run togther and calling at the intermediate stations of: East Finchley, Long Lane Pasture, Finchley Central, Dollis Brook, Mill Hill East, Chase Lodge, Mill Hill Broadway, Edgware Broadway, Park Grove and Stanmore. There would be a possibility of also doing a Edgware Town branch would would come off the joint running between Park Grove and Edgware Broadway on a triangle Junction. The Edgware Town Branch would have intermediate stations at Edgware, Holland House, London Gateway, Elstree Fields, Elstree & Borehamwood, Elstree Studio, Elstree Industrial, Hertsmere and Hertsmere North. The tramway would reuse the old tunnels by Highgate as well as the Northern Heights alignment. It would take over the Northern Line Mill Hill East Branch. There would be an extra pair tracks built for tram between Finchley Central and Finchley East. Each service would operate at 4tph off peak and 6tph in the peak, so there would be four services without the Edgware town branch. With the Edgware Town Branch there would be eight services running at 4tph all day due to the mixed traffic nature of the line it is no possible to run at more than 24tph on the streets with traffic hence to provide 12tph on each branch while providing a direct link to branches on the without Edgeware Town and three branches with Edgeware Town. If you would like the maps, I made please do feel free ask then I can send them across in the best way.
I went everywhere on the Belmont Rattler, lived in the same road as it! Very sad when it closed in October 1964.
The station house at Stanmore is still there
It is indeed!
We used to know it as the The Belmont Rattler in the 1950's and often played on the almost disused track. I can recall seeing the odd goods train, just a couple of carriages.
Oh nice! Interesting that it had two nicknames then, although in the 50s given for the best part of the decade it only went to Belmont, it makes sense
@@somenorthlondoner The name probably depended on which station you lived closer to and some folks probably just called it "The Rattler" and from what I recall nothing moved very quick on that line, unless it was little kids legging-it out of sight of the odd staff member at the Stanmore end of the line. Rare but not unknown scary creatures!
What a treat to see such a thoroughly detailed and well researched video about my very very very local area! (The street I grew up on got mentioned!!) I’ve given this old line a lot of thought. While it’s always sad to see a railway closed, with my sensible hat on, this does seem to be one of the very few cases where Beeching was right to close it. Having to change at Harrow and Wealdstone to get to central London would never be able to compete with the Jubilee line. Also, the 186 is more frequent (and, from what I’ve read, probably faster!) than the Rattler ever was. Thanks for making such a great video! 🙂
Thank you so much! I’ve loved watching your content from a young age and so for you to leave a comment on one of my videos has made me feel quite starstruck to say the least 🤣 Compared to the previous episode in my series it’s definitely one that we could probably do without…although I do have to play devils advocate sometimes and suggest things that might go against my own personal opinion 😂 The 186 is an excellent route, goes to lots of places and links Belmont up to the Northern Line, Metropolitan Line, all the services from H&W and Chiltern Railways from various stations. So yes, Belmont has got pretty good transport links in that regard. Thanks so much for leaving a comment! :D
jay foreman jumpscare
I worked as a surveyor for Harrow Council in the 1980s and had a bit to do with setting up the Belmont Trail walkway (keeping the route free of dumping and encroachments at that stage). You mention that the trail stops at Vernon Drive and that was the site of a rare foot-crossing on London's railways, allowing walkers to access Wemborough Road.
Interesting!
A lot of people living in belmont either drive, get dropped off or take the bus to Preston road or Northwick Park for a quick met line into the city 😊
Fantastic, well researched video. I’ve done extensive reading about this former line to learn more about local history. You’ve summed it up so well. Thank you.
Thanks so much :)
I hope you get to make a video on the Croxley and Rickmansworth lines that were almost reopened as part of the plan to extend the Met to an actually useful station in Watford. The whole story of the Met and LNWR in the Watford area is fascinating to me and I was studying near there back in 2010-13 when the plan to extend the Met looked like it might go ahead. Also, the Alban Way is a great orbital route that might warrant a video; I've walked it and it's a nice hike (except for the bit where the M1 cuts across your path).
They’re in the plans for sure…although my plans do move around a fair bit in terms of ordering every now and again 😂 Yes the Alban Way would make for a good video I think, especially with the paralleling bus route operated by Uno which I cannot remember the number of! But would make for an interesting idea for sure
@@somenorthlondoner Also, I may have missed it but I'm not sure it was clear in your video why the branch to Stanmore was built such that it joined H&W station facing north. The same was true of the Croxley branches at Watford so maybe they just liked making life difficult for their customers but the Met figured out how to build branches. But then, is there anything the Met didn't get right?
Bishops Avenue, the naffest place to live in London.
Interesting - I hadn't realised it had ever had a service every 10 minutes, even in the peaks! As you say, it would probably be difficult to rebuild the line as it was. The least good bit of the transport network in the area is getting from H&W to HotH - there are frequent buses, but ithey take ages for the less than two miles, which a rail connection would probably do in three minutes. But that would have to be underground! Perhaps it might be possible as part of a new/re-opened north London orbital rail route: Harrow-on-the-Hill > H&W > Stanmore (Jub) > Edgware > Mill Hilll B'way (T-link/WLO) > Mill Hill E > Finchley Ctrl > E.Finchley > Highgate (surface level) > Crouch End > Stroud Gn > Finsbury Pk. Personally I'd then join it to the Piccadilly, giving that line two branches at its north-east end, to match its two branches in the west; that would also make any tunnelling cheaper - tube sized. But it could also join the Overground - perhaps re-using the Palace Gates line. Look forward to your next video
It’s surprising for sure, particularly for 100 years ago. It’s a shame that there couldn’t have been a Watford High St style deviation towards HotH from the DC line but I suppose it’s on the wrong side of the mainline for that and so would’ve been ridiculously expensive to have tried burrowing. I think it would be a nice addition to a revitalised Northern Heights project but getting the bits of alignment still intact going again (MHE to Copthall, MHB to Edgware, Parkland Walk) would be a challenge in itself!
I remember playing on the remnants of the Rattler as a child, before it was a trail. With my friends, I would cycle up from Kenton Park to Belmont to thrash a few hundred yards through the jungle towards Stanmore. My first Saturday job was with Donaldsons Estate Agents on Belmont Circle
Oh nice!
Great video..Belmont history in particular.. except for locals it's hard to believe the line was built in the first place!...I'm close to Harrow leisure centre (Trial beginning)- which is relatively poorly served - As u said buses are ok - also incl 324 at Stanmore & H19 at Belmont. Any time delays can be offset by fast trains to Central London
Yes definitely and that’s cool! I take it you walk along the Belmont Trail a fair bit then? Admittedly whilst filming I grabbed a Greggs in HotH and once I’d acquired it I thought of catching an H9/10 up to the start of the trail but very glad I didn’t as it had occurred to me that it almost reaches Kingsbury and takes in Northwick Park H so would’ve been quite the detour!
@@somenorthlondoner ,Ha ha- I made that H9 mistake recently. Trail ? Yes but only up to Belmont Costa coffee!.. You made me realise that the line to Stanmore made a lot of sense in 1890 - It’s about 3 miles & has quite a noticeable incline. Ok for a horse but would have been a tiring evening walk. - Thanks again for the great info.
oh meant to say H10 - ..but if you take the H9 you can pick up the trail much quicker..
good vid g
Cheers :)
How else are the staff expected to get to work?
Presumably walk from the 102 or 210…but it is a rather long walk
There is a proposal to push the tramway on from New Addington to Biggin Hill Valley. As always it's a question of money.
I think that’s been binned but it was discussed about 20 years ago IIRC. No point given an increase in frequency on the 464 would do more than enough to cater for any increase in demand (remains to be seen how they’ll navigate Saltbox though)
The 146 runs an efficient schedule to get an hourly service out of 1 bus. Extending the route to Biggin Hill would add 30 minutes to the round trip time, meaning either reducing the frequency to 90 minutes, or running more buses. You could viably have 3 buses interworking the 146 and R8, running Bromley > Biggin Hill > Orpington > Biggin Hill > Bromley on a 3-hour cycle, giving an hourly service on each route and a half-hourly service between Downe and Biggin Hill, but that seems like overkill for the very low passenger numbers. A village like that in Not London would be lucky to get 3 or 4 buses a day, at best!
Agreed on the first point, the 146 I got also happened to be 15 mins late arriving to Downe and the drivers were really flooring it to keep to schedule. I think the R8 going to hourly might be more preferable than the 146 going to Biggin Hill, but might mean excess stand time at each time! (as extra bus would be necessary) Thanks for your comment :)
This was one of the first LT bus route Awarded om competitive tender. When Crystal's won the route in the 80s
@@johnrafferty8087 really? What happened to Crystals by the way. Noticed that one of their Solos I believe off the B14 or R6 is now preserved.
Thanks for covering this delightful route. Growing up around Sevenoaks, this was not unfamiliar territory, and I remember double-deck RTs on the 146 which ran, I'm sure, more often than half-hourly. For the present, I would have thought that more frequent buses would generate more passengers. It is great though that the timetable is from 6am to nearly midnight. Maybe better, though, to increase the R8 to hourly and have it connect reasonably with the 146. I know that TfL are probably wrestling with the practicalities of staff schedules and how to get quarts out of pint-pots, but this is an era when we need to get people out of cars and into public transport, and frequency is a key generator of custom - even on rural routes. And for individual passengers, their travel needs are mostly the same whether they live on an urban estate or in a cottage down a lane. What I'd really like is for TfL to use the bus numbering system to give an idea of frequency - like the 600 series are generally school buses. So maybe 500s for hourly, 400s for half-hourly, 300s for quarter-hourly etc.. I'm not sure that the letter prefixes (R etc.) have ever stood for anything useful! But to look at a bus map, or the list of route numbers on a bus stop flag, and to be able to see immediately which buses are most likely to come soon, would make bus travel a lot easier and more popular.
@@ricktownend9144 Yeah I’d agree re the R8, I’ll be reviewing it in the future but an hourly frequency might be slightly better. Granted the R2 which always seems rather empty does Orpington to Biggin Hill a lot more directly than the R8, but I suppose it’s not all about end to end journeys. Interesting about the 146, I suspect they were the shorts to Keston and Bromley? Bus there was also a split between the 146 and 146A, obviously most of the original 146 is now part of the 246 to Westerham Hill. Agree on numbering being used to signify frequency although quite a lot of the less frequent routes are actually more recent additions (327, 347, 375, 389, 399) so are obviously placed as higher numbers based on how new they are whereas the 146 goes back almost a decade! Thanks for your insightful take on this :)
Another little route to add to my list of ones you do a video on - going to do all of these just because I can really... Also, love how the shot of the red car on the corner shows it has a parking ticket
Oh I didn’t notice that! Glad I inspired you to do the 146 though!
I literally did this the other day
Did you? What did you think
@@somenorthlondoner Very beautiful place, absolutely nothing to do
re Brentford: only a minor addition, but in 2014 the Didcot steam centre ran their Steam Railmotor up and down the line for a weekend - ruclips.net/video/eL-CudtGfEk/видео.html. I guess with ther Southall depot still in use by West Coast Railways (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southall_Railway_Centre), heritage trips would be possible at weekend, but like anything, it needs the effort and money. The GWRPG folded in 2021.
It’s Mose-ley, not Moserley; Bordes-ley, not Bordersley. And economy, not e-conomy. Not a bad vid, but not sure about the commentary though.
Thanks regardless, I’ll probably get round to a re record at some stage but do bear in mind this video was recorded almost 6 months ago!
I worked on the development of Tramlink from 1989 so have some background knowledge. Woodside to Selsdon closed in 1983 due to low passenger numbers. Addiscombe also had very low passenger numbers due to its location and with East Croydon offering faster and more frequent services to London, but Woodside had better use. The Addiscombe to Elmers End line only survived because the EPB stock was stabled at Addiscombe, and British Rail already had plans to close the branch once the new trains were in service. Closure would have happened with or without the Tramlink project. One of the objectives of Tramlink was to improve links between Croydon and Bromley borough, so use of the line to Elmers End was an obvious option, which also kept a service to Woodside (with the branch to Beckenham Junction added later during the project development). We considered a route option that would use the branch through to Addiscombe Station, but that would then have required street running of trams on Clyde Road (southbound) and Canning Road (northbound) to reach Addiscombe Road and East Croydon. So following the then-disused Selsdon Line provided a better option, and which also connected with the route to New Addington.
In relation to Beckenham Junction, was the track that it uses once used by National Rail? Yes it definitely made sense using the Selsdon Line, I will likely make a video on that line in due course but it serves Addiscombe proper rather than the outskirts at Addiscombe Road, and so is more useful in that regard. A route through Addiscombe Road would have been interesting, I note that in Tramlink development plans from a while ago there were concerns as to where to send extra trams that were proposed due to the current passenger levels exhibited from Wimbledon to West Croydon. Maybe that wouldn’t have been a bad idea then looking at it from that perspective as there have been concerns about where extra trams would terminate. Interesting that Woodside was well used, Norwood Junction has a very good service level nowadays though maybe it was a different story back in the late 90s?
The Line from Crystal Palace to Beckenham Junction had originally been built as double track, but the section through Birkbeck to Beckenham Junction had been singled before we developed Tramlink. When the line was singled they presumably kept whichever track was in better condition, so the single line was on the northwest side of the formation through Birkbeck Station, but moved across to the south side somewhere around Avenue Road. As part of Tramlink the heavy rail track had to be realigned to the north side, and at the Avenue Road stop the formation had to be widened to accommodate 2 tram tracks, 2 platforms and the heavy rail.
Breerly Hill???????????????????
I’ve clarified this a number of times in previous comments, but this video was recorded 5 months ago when I was a little less clued up on the pronunciations. I can only apologise and will likely re record at some stage
Not that complex with the superloop buses now, but orbital trains would be useful
The Superloop doesn’t really do anything in relation to most of these links
Excellent video my friends awesome like 👍🏻 Greeting from Argentina nuevo subcritor suscribete 😊
Interesting, I wasn't aware of the Addiscombe plans as I only moved to the area in 2010 and Blackhorse Lane is now my local tram stop. It was nice to see a photo of Woodside in the steam days.
Ah cool!
First time I've ever heard anyone say ceased the same as seized.
Didn't realise that. Thanks for telling me regardless. I'll make sure to bear that in mind!
@@somenorthlondoner everyone has a different accent, modern linguistic thinking is to say it's not wrong unless it's a mistake. And even mistakes can be standardized.
@@AutoReport1 I usually get the pronunciation correct but either my mic picked it up incorrectly or I did in fact pronounce it as “seized”. For quite a lot of the recording I wasn’t feeling the best health wise (came down with a cold) so could’ve been to do with that. But thanks for telling me regardless!
@@somenorthlondoner the cold might explain the unexpected voicing of the final /st/ to /zd/.
If the Croxley Rail Link (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croxley_Rail_Link) ever gets built (yes, I know, dream on), a heritage railway from Croxley to Watford (Met) would probably be a great success given its proximity to Cassiobury Park with its miniature railway, as well as the River Colne and various other recreational amenities.
I think I mentioned this in the comments on my West London Orbital but there is a video on the Croxley Rail Link coming very soon. That's added an interesting angle that I'd be interested to discuss :)
@@jackmartinleith It would only be from the junction to the LUL station. Like the Addiscombe proposal too short to be of any use.
@@juliansadler6263 Not so. There are *many* even shorter heritage railways.
@@jackmartinleith One loco shunting up and down does not a railway make.
@@juliansadler6263 You Yoda?
Great work, once again. Here's the link to Part 1, covering Grove Park-Bromley North and Custom House-North Woolwich: ruclips.net/video/aKXmVd8RWA8/видео.html
Thanks a lot :)
How do i get envoled in heritage railways? Best Regards Terence.
Hi Terence, I’m not too sure but I think if you asked heritage railways on Facebook then you could always enquire whether there’s any volunteer shortages and offer to fill the gap! :)
The extension to Brentford SWR would need a new bridge across the Thames with clearance for navigation. Probably a non starter because of the cost (the only thing that matters today).
Yes most likely.
An extension from the Southall Brentford branch to Brentford SWR does not require a bridge over the River Thames. What it would require is a bridge over the Great West Road.
@@ianrazey8412would more likely be a dive under imo
Really enjoyed this!
Thanks so much :D
also i must add, the true numbers are far higher because of how many people do not tap to use the line
Sure
when i used to go to school in grove park the line was well used by students that were going to bromley after school (me included) and commuters coming in from central that lived in around the residential area in sundrige park and those wanting to go into bromley (im assuming those that dont work near victoria)
I’ve heard it is well used during the peaks yeah
I have got two of these class319 in model form now I have heard what they sound like since these models have fitted speakers as standard I am going to buy a pair of sound decoders for both of my 319s
Nice
I have two of these 319 in model form courtesy of Graham Farish it is an excellent model
Acton to Hanwell, the 607 bus would still be preferable over the train via Old Oak Common. Supposing at Old Oak they go for a people mover, that journey's actually 2 changes: first at Acton Wells onto the people mover, then at Old Oak Common to Crossrail. Now imagine they don't build a people mover.
I don’t see the point of a people mover for such a small journey between two stations!
@@somenorthlondoner : Acton Wells to Old Oak Common GWML station is over half a kilometre. This is double the distance between Paddington (Praed Street) and Paddington (Bishop's Bridge) and significantly more than the notoriously long trip to lines 4 and 12 at Paris Montparnasse. Most people would regard a journey from Ilford into Liverpool Street, then back out on the Northern line to Angel, as comprising 2 interchanges, even if it can technically be done in one by walking along the Elizabeth line platforms under Finsbury Circus. It simply cannot be regarded as an interchange if passengers are left to make the connection, although I believe a travelator would be more appropriate than a people mover given that most people are not going to be going the entire length of the complex from North Acton to the West London line. London in recent years has lost its talent for constructing respectable interchanges that gave us Mile End and Baker Street under the New Works Programme and Stockwell and Oxford Circus with the Victoria line. Even though the latter was done on the cheap, they knew not to skimp on what would later embarrass them. The Elizabeth line's only cross-platform interchange is the pre-existing one at Stratford. Whitechapel is like South Kensington if it didn't have the stairs in the middle of the island platform & to get from the District to Piccadilly line you had to go up to the ticket hall, turn around & join the escalator. Only the northbound Thameslink platform at Farringdon has escalator access down to the Elizabeth line, with the southbound platform having only lifts. Sometimes there's a queue for these lifts & I'm forced to go up to the ticket office to cross to the northbound platform.
Old Oak Common is not going to be a great interchange. It's not going to be the Clapham Junction of the northwest. At best it's going to be London's answer to Montparnasse, with a super-travelator connecting the different parts; at worst they won't even build a travelator and it will be more like trying to change between the different stations in central Birmingham or between Euston and King's Cross.
Very few people are going to change at Harlesden instead of Willesden Junction if they have to walk down Winchelsea Road. In-fact it's a joke not calling the station Craven Park but naming it Harlesden as though it's another West Hampstead. If I were wanting to go from Acton to Wembley Central and the first train was via Dudding Hill, I would skip it & wait for the Stratford train a few minutes after.
You say that people won’t want to undertake the walk down Winchelsea Road but it’s not exactly like the two Willesden Junction platforms in this example are next to one another! Why would you call the station Craven Park over Harlesden?
@@somenorthlondoner : Because I don't want to create another Bethnal Green. Suppose we were to promote the convenience of the connection in London to passengers travelling between Paris, Dublin and Edinburgh by calling all 3 termini that lie along that stretch of the Euston Road "London North".
@@ccityplanner1217 Both Bethnal Greens are much further apart and aren't even on the same road as each other. I'd agree that maybe they shouldn't be the same name but you could probably wave to someone from either Harlesden and they could see you 😂
The main orbital routes in this area like the 260, 266 and 460 used to be trolleybuses. When the trolleybus network was de-electrified in the early 1960s, London Transport kept finding out that in practice, trolleybuses are a higher order of transport than buses even if they aren't on paper. A stumbling block to trolleybus replacement was that London's trolleybuses accommodated around a dozen more passengers than a Routemaster. On the scale at which London Buses operated 60 years ago, this meant that more buses were required, leading not only to a shortage of stabling space but also to a staff shortage, because LT didn't have the budget to pay crews attractive wages, which it never fully resolved until the Routemasters were replaced with one-man-operated buses. TfL is still notorious for being virtually allergic to upgrading a route to a higher order of transit: the forthcoming rollout of Irizars with tram-style bodies on the 227 is about the closest we've got since the New Addington commuter express bus became a tram. Compared with Paris, Berlin and New York, London relies heavily on bog-standard buses running in mixed traffic. Services in the missing middle between buses & heavy rail, like the Croydon Tramlink and East London Transit, are sporadic.
Saying that development is needed to justify improvements to transport such as a new station reminds me of when service providers like banks & broadband companies have offers that you can only benefit from if you're not already with them.
Not entirely sure I agree with that but it’s a decent analogy regardless 😅
New platforms at West Hampstead wouldn't actually require land take south of the line. North of the line is just a Builder Depot and some disused land. • Up Metropolitan moved into short new tunnel under West End Lane immediately adjacent to Heritage Lane & Blackburn Road, serving the north side of island platform 9/10 Up Underground. • Existing platform becomes 11/12 Down Underground. • Up GCML slewed north onto road currently occupied by Down Metropolitan, with island platform 13/14 serving National Rail. The entire station would be 50 yards wide, about the same as Harrow-on-the-Hill station, and with effectively the same layout.
Interesting plans but a short new tunnel would require land in relation to construction as you would need to excavate underground, find somewhere to put it, provide an access route for trucks to come and go with sediment etc. I don’t disagree with your ideas but cost of land is a major cost when it comes to railway developments and so it’s important to factor that in when making suggestions.
Just watched this again a couple of times - picking up bits I'd missed - really good video! You are right to identify the level-crossings dilemma. Green Signals podcast recently highlighted the safety benefits of getting rid of them, but level-crossings do also pose a limit to the expansion of services - critically important if the aim (rightly) is to get 80% of journeys made by train and bus. Eliminating a crossing is expensive, but against the cost should be set: 1 - the value of saving lives/injuries, plus distress to drivers (which has a cost) 2 - the increased revenue from a higher level of service possible when a crossing is removed 3 - the community benefits from improved train (passenger and freight) and bus/lorry services (climate, air quality, congestion) 4 - savings to bus operators from buses no longer delayed 5 - the value of car/lorry drivers' time (long used as an argument for motorway building) Another source of money might be - if the best solution is to put the railway underground - from the land value of the current rail trace: possibly housing, but certainly industrial - or even urban farming use. Also, there are a number of level-crossings needing elimination - as you point out - so there may be economies of scale in having a 'rolling programme'. You are right that West Hampstead would - network-wise - be ideal for a Chiltern+Met station, but how about Neasden? The Met can already stop there, and if the Chiltern platforms were built between the Met/Jubilee ones and the new WLO station, that would save the cost of a walkway. And it would be a quick and easy change for Chiltern passengers to get to the West Hampstead hub. As regards extending the WLO, how about from Hounslow to Kingston, via Twickenham, where the trains would reverse? There appears to be room, east of Kingston, for a reversing siding - perhaps between the running lines, as at Rayners Lane. Also maybe Cricklewood to Mill Hill Broadway, also extending the Northern tube-line from Mill Hill East to the disused station adjacent to the southern end of the Broadway platforms, and possibly a new station where the MML crosses over the Northern tube-line Hampstead Branch - distressingly disconnected from the rest of the NW London rail network! Old Oak Common Lane, as well as giving interchange with the Elizabeth line, is also not far from North Acton in the Central line. A further interchange could be at a new 'Acton Junction' station where the Pic+District crosses over the WLO, maybe with platforms also on the Gunnersbury lines. All this could sort out Acton's rail-mess, so that you could get from any of Acton's nine stations to any other, with only one change of train! Last idea - how about joining/splitting the two services (Hounslow-W.Hamp. and Kew Bridge-Cricklewood) so that they travel the common part of their journeys together? The old Southern Railway was keen on this and used to do it at Haywards Heath in 2 minutes. The current Southern are slower - 10 minutes at Horsham - but I gather the Berlin S-Bahn can join or split in 2 minutes!