I don't think he mentioned it, but always be careful whiff punishing chainsaw moves. They are super active and chances are, you are gonna be so excited to whiff punish that you swing directly into an active hitbox losing your turn once again. Make sure to be patient and wait it out before making your move.
Thank you so much for this video, Frame. These are your best type of videos imo because you're really good at explaining multiple layers of problems, whereas most content-creators only give you the first-layer solution. As an intermediate player (purple), this is definitely the area of Tekken I struggle with the most with (especially in T8). Even setting aside the solutions themselves - I find it mentally exhausting just accepting the long-term-learning mindset with these sorts of things. When you're good enough to know why you're losing, but not good enough to actually apply the counter-strats - It's hard not to slip into these mental traps of "Man, This character/mixup is just cheap" - which obviously doesn't help. As a side-note; It'd be really cool to see a vid on how you approach matchups and counter-strats in general - From mindset to labbing to actually applying (and sometimes failing) in matches.
So basically you have to guess and there's no safe option select for the mixup. Even sidestep block will get you destroyed by her i13 mid check, she doesn't even have to commit to the homing move. Just guess right, seems fair.
@@lastburning it's Tekken. Kazuya's mix can be SSL. Shaheen's stance mix can be SWR or interrupted. Lili's mid check can be sidestepped and launched, everything else can be interrupted. Even Drags sneak mix can be beaten by SSR block. Only Alisa's chainsaws can force you to guess at +3 and deals tons of chip damage if you just block. It's overtuned and going to get nerfed.
Thanks for this man, I kept getting beat up by her Chainsaw Stance lol. I had labbed the basics and the frames but it really helped a lot to learn it in detail from someone who actually plays her and knows her mind game! Really narrowed down my defensive choices lol
70 damage from essentially 2 hits 💀 Thanks for the vid, learned some valuable information. I still think the chip in heat is a bit much, but she's hardly alone there.
Minus 4 doesn't quite make Alisa punishable either. Because the powercrush B1+2 exist, which is a move that can tank its way out at minus 5 frame for most of the time. Also the electric side-step can dodge a good amount of punishing moves at minus 4. I still think the only safe options are punishing her after F1 and powercrush B1+2. Just stand still, press back button and wait for these moves.
If Alisa uses their i10/i13 standing punishers or i13 ws punisher in neutral, remember to duck the second hit. All of them are high. You can launch them. If you block them, Alisa is -2 or -3 in chainsaws. Quick i13 check (df1) interrupts everything and chainsaws are gone. Same for u2 on block. Don’t allow them to start chainsaw pressure at minus frames. They get plus frame chainsaw mix only on hit. Except for running 2. Which you can also duck. Alisa doesn’t have really threatening long range mid.
useful video as usual ^^ Main takeaway as an Alisa myself is that i need to watch my opponents stepping and add some f2 's :) Indeed people backdashing away after eating chip is a main thing they do, sometimes i just get them with the bual boot 'hellsweep' or whiffpunish some evasion.
Some other tips: backdash after f1+2 alisa will whiff almost everything. Certain chars can walk to the left after f1 to evade d1, 1, f1 (you will get hit once but youre +9), f2
Everything that was there was good, but I felt the lack of hellsweep(DES F+3 F+2) coverage was a massive omission. A solid damage unseeable low that is tailor made for high wall splats.
If you're able to react to her going into DBT (chainsaw fly) due that backsway she does when she enters the stance, or she's predictable with the timing, you can side walk left EVERYTHING from the stance, including the hellsweep, as she has nothing to deal with movement while she's in stance.
DES f1+2 on block is different situation compared to other +5 chainsaw situations because of pushback. In this situation you can backdash most of Alisa’s best options. And tight backdash duck also blocks DES d1 at the same time (also DES d2 first hit whiffs and you block remaining ones). DES f1 has enough range, but it pushes you further away. So you are back in neutral. Also if you duck DES f2,1,2 string, only the two first hits are natural and only do 15 damage in total. Last hit is punishable and ends chainsaws. And if they pressed everything else, you launch their whiff. Except chainsaw orbital, which has enough range to clip you. But is linear and they lose their turn after it.
They could also go to DBT in pushback +5 situation and do a mid or hellsweep. Mids are weak to sidestep. Hellsweep is launch punishable. Sidestep duck with good timing should beat both. And you can of course float all of them if you read it coming.
I feel like people need to use boot and dual boot sparingly in the neutral, use it for okizeme more. Heat burst is a real issue for the boot stance in general so you need to be smarter about when you use it
The thing with most Alisa players is they mainly use F1, D1, F1+2 and when you move away from them they use boot stance so you can just heat burst and then combo them. I would say just side walk left to beat the low and the other moves wont hit you either. Alisa gets me scary when the player starts using DES 1+2, B1,2 and D2,2 to catch sidestepping.
I don’t think 1+2 exists solely for heat dash. You can use chainsaw heat engagers for this and they will go away after the dash so you get the same combos
Playerbase: "ooooh, I hate playing against Alisa because chainsaw mix-up is cheap and she can win because you guess wrong" also playerbase: "Kazuya is one of the most fun characters to face because it's all about mind games and making reads"
Kazuya's mix is just a 50/50, you either pick mid or low. It's like the easiest concept to understand so everyone at every level knows how it works. It's easy to call something cheap when you don't know what's happening.
hold on, what happens if the Alisa anticipates you'll sidestep Right, so they sidestep in the appropriate position to realign themselves with you. then you're just gonna eat the mix lol.
As a fellow Alisa main, thank you so much for this video. Hopefully, these kinds of brilliant tutorials and guides help to curb the plug problem and community toxicity. I get its a competitive fighting game but I hate when people start pointing fingers and calling people bad players just for playing a particular character. Ex. King, Alisa, Victor, Noctis, Drag, Hwo... etc. Some of us dont have time to spend 5 hours drilling EWGF in practise mode, so its nice to have characters with strong kits that dont have complex inputs. We all have fun in our own way
That's a valid opinion. But here's my argument - your fun isn't more important than my fun. And I shouldn't have to watch a 20-minute video to deal with a dumb gimmick, cause my character (Jin) doesn't have one. It's not fun for me to lose 3-0 cause I have no idea idea when and how exactly am I supposed to counter this crap on reaction and all I can do is block and pray that Alisa player does something dumb off the script
@azazamat You play a Mishima and you're complaining about watching character tutorial videos? Long reply incoming. I'm not flaming you just hear me out. Jin is also a much stronger character than Alisa in the right hands imo. I don't really think the chainsaws are a gimmick either it's just a fun aspect of the character. Yoshis got a demon sword, Devil Jin Shoots lasers, Jun shoots beams of light, King can deal optimal combo damage with like 3 inputs, Paul's got a super duper mega punch, Dragnov can cancel his inputs to mess you up, Mishimas have electrics and hellsweeps, Hwo has endless pressure, Claudio has magical powers, Zafina has a literal demon in her arm, Victor's a little bitch, Lee has perfect inputs, Law has nunchucks and crazy flips, Leroy has wingchun parries, I'm certain there's more. While I respect your desire to have fun, you should also respect mine. Disrespecting other people character choice because they think it's fun and you don't is pretty ignorant considering most of the characters that have been put into the game since the first game have a "gimmick" as you call it that's hard to deal with with if you don't learn the match up. If learning a match-up and that little rush of dopamine you get when you finally start punishing a move that destroyed you earlier isn't fun for you, then you probably just don't like fighting games. But I'm sure you actually do, and you're just at the point where this match up is frustrating. Try hopping into practise with Alisa and learning her kit, there's honestly not that much. I'm also happy to spar and just play Alisa like a cunt in a controlled environment so you can learn how to deal with it, because then I can learn how to deal with some of the Jin shit that bugs me. Again I'm not flaming you, I just don't know why the Tekken 8 community is so plug heavy and rude. I swear half the roster will have you accused of being "carried" by some angry player online.
@azazamat I think my reply got deleted for being too long or something. Long story short I respect your opinion but I think you'd have more fun by just learning the match up since a lot of characters tend to have a frustrating aspect to there kit if you don't know it.
@doomstothfilms but then we return to your initial point - just like with your example with EWGF, I also don't have 5 hours to learn every single match-up and gimmick. Obviously, I try to remember common things, but 32 characters with ~100 moves each isn't really something you can just pick up in an evening.
@azazamat I mean yeah, I have nothing to disagee with there. But we can't just remove the complex kits of Tekken because it simply wouldn't be fun to learn at that point. Plus lets give ourselves a bit more credit. We have time to play the game, and that time could instead be used in practise or learning match ups. We don't have all day to do it like a teenager or a pro player but we can still put in the time to learn, just much slower. That's just kind of the reality of competitive games in general. I got really really frustrated going against Victor, and I only play for like 2-3 hours a day if I'm even playing games that day. But I did find time to just sit in practise as Victor and examine his frames and now I'm not losing that match up most of the time. A I 6-0d a Victor yesterday and felt really good about it because I knew what he was going to do.
A neat little thing that was shown to me by a random hopkick spammer in matchmaking is that you can interrupt chainsaw d1 > d1 with a hopkick on hit, since its only +4 and has 21 startup.
Okay, so it is basically rock, paper scissors. You can duck, unless she does a mid, you can step unless she does a tracking move with them, you can block, but you will never stop being mashed, you can block but she can do a low. Really annoying character. No wonder why people are toxic torwards the character when only thing you can do is predict, KBD if you can even do it or eat endless plus frames moves.
hmm the character has clear and applicable counter play, all it takes is some studying...... Nah, dishonest. Play a more popular character next time! 😉
I don't think he mentioned it, but always be careful whiff punishing chainsaw moves. They are super active and chances are, you are gonna be so excited to whiff punish that you swing directly into an active hitbox losing your turn once again.
Make sure to be patient and wait it out before making your move.
waiting on the shop guide, i wanna spend my $4
Im gonna spend $5
I was unironically excited to get something cool in the shop but everything looks wack as af
@@Fly_Ry i actually bought the jin one, just reminds me of tekken 4/5 but the other ones are pretty boring to me
I am gonna laugh if they add Frame's Sweater for $4
i will by the anti cheating perk so wont face any pluggers in ranked
Thank you so much for this video, Frame. These are your best type of videos imo because you're really good at explaining multiple layers of problems, whereas most content-creators only give you the first-layer solution. As an intermediate player (purple), this is definitely the area of Tekken I struggle with the most with (especially in T8).
Even setting aside the solutions themselves - I find it mentally exhausting just accepting the long-term-learning mindset with these sorts of things. When you're good enough to know why you're losing, but not good enough to actually apply the counter-strats - It's hard not to slip into these mental traps of "Man, This character/mixup is just cheap" - which obviously doesn't help. As a side-note; It'd be really cool to see a vid on how you approach matchups and counter-strats in general - From mindset to labbing to actually applying (and sometimes failing) in matches.
So basically you have to guess and there's no safe option select for the mixup. Even sidestep block will get you destroyed by her i13 mid check, she doesn't even have to commit to the homing move. Just guess right, seems fair.
It's a fighting game.
@@lastburning it's Tekken. Kazuya's mix can be SSL. Shaheen's stance mix can be SWR or interrupted. Lili's mid check can be sidestepped and launched, everything else can be interrupted. Even Drags sneak mix can be beaten by SSR block.
Only Alisa's chainsaws can force you to guess at +3 and deals tons of chip damage if you just block. It's overtuned and going to get nerfed.
Huh kazuyr doesnt have homing moves? You gotta use all of your moves
honestly, just the tip to hit er once to make the saws disappear has made it all so much easier lol
Just linked this video to a couple of my friends that hate fighting against my chainsaws.
Super great guide, thank you 🙏
I have had this video in my backlog for a while glad it was worth my time 🙏🙏🙏
Ah, your video was super helpful. Went from yellow to red rank in an hour as Alisa. Good stuff. People really hate those saw blades.
Thanks for this man, I kept getting beat up by her Chainsaw Stance lol. I had labbed the basics and the frames but it really helped a lot to learn it in detail from someone who actually plays her and knows her mind game! Really narrowed down my defensive choices lol
Love when he whispers to the frames
70 damage from essentially 2 hits 💀
Thanks for the vid, learned some valuable information. I still think the chip in heat is a bit much, but she's hardly alone there.
This is actually extremely helpful. Thank you.
Minus 4 doesn't quite make Alisa punishable either. Because the powercrush B1+2 exist, which is a move that can tank its way out at minus 5 frame for most of the time. Also the electric side-step can dodge a good amount of punishing moves at minus 4. I still think the only safe options are punishing her after F1 and powercrush B1+2. Just stand still, press back button and wait for these moves.
This is gods work, thanks Frame! 😊
ty so much for this! been meaning to lab it but i only see alisa once in a blue moon so my lazy ass never got to it, but she sure does kick my ass
If Alisa uses their i10/i13 standing punishers or i13 ws punisher in neutral, remember to duck the second hit. All of them are high. You can launch them. If you block them, Alisa is -2 or -3 in chainsaws. Quick i13 check (df1) interrupts everything and chainsaws are gone. Same for u2 on block. Don’t allow them to start chainsaw pressure at minus frames. They get plus frame chainsaw mix only on hit. Except for running 2. Which you can also duck. Alisa doesn’t have really threatening long range mid.
useful video as usual ^^
Main takeaway as an Alisa myself is that i need to watch my opponents stepping and add some f2 's :)
Indeed people backdashing away after eating chip is a main thing they do, sometimes i just get them with the bual boot 'hellsweep' or whiffpunish some evasion.
Some other tips: backdash after f1+2 alisa will whiff almost everything. Certain chars can walk to the left after f1 to evade d1, 1, f1 (you will get hit once but youre +9), f2
Good stuff. I had labbed this in 7 but a review was very much needed.
I was distracted by jiggle physics
That animal jumping animation in background looks sooo cheap
@@МихаилБарков-ф9е to each its own
Everything that was there was good, but I felt the lack of hellsweep(DES F+3 F+2) coverage was a massive omission. A solid damage unseeable low that is tailor made for high wall splats.
If you're able to react to her going into DBT (chainsaw fly) due that backsway she does when she enters the stance, or she's predictable with the timing, you can side walk left EVERYTHING from the stance, including the hellsweep, as she has nothing to deal with movement while she's in stance.
DES f1+2 on block is different situation compared to other +5 chainsaw situations because of pushback. In this situation you can backdash most of Alisa’s best options. And tight backdash duck also blocks DES d1 at the same time (also DES d2 first hit whiffs and you block remaining ones). DES f1 has enough range, but it pushes you further away. So you are back in neutral. Also if you duck DES f2,1,2 string, only the two first hits are natural and only do 15 damage in total. Last hit is punishable and ends chainsaws. And if they pressed everything else, you launch their whiff. Except chainsaw orbital, which has enough range to clip you. But is linear and they lose their turn after it.
They could also go to DBT in pushback +5 situation and do a mid or hellsweep. Mids are weak to sidestep. Hellsweep is launch punishable. Sidestep duck with good timing should beat both. And you can of course float all of them if you read it coming.
I feel like people need to use boot and dual boot sparingly in the neutral, use it for okizeme more. Heat burst is a real issue for the boot stance in general so you need to be smarter about when you use it
The thing with most Alisa players is they mainly use F1, D1, F1+2 and when you move away from them they use boot stance so you can just heat burst and then combo them. I would say just side walk left to beat the low and the other moves wont hit you either. Alisa gets me scary when the player starts using DES 1+2, B1,2 and D2,2 to catch sidestepping.
Thanks frames. I got Alisa in the lab right now lol
You can block during manual chainsaw transition outside of heat. Heat manual chainsaw transition is worse
This is really helpful! Thank you for the info. and fu still.
Mainman is gonna coom when he sees this guide. 👍
that jiggle animation is crazy xD
Its kinda how no one breaks my link throws with King until I hit Mighty Ruler 😂
another cool tech after 3, 2 on block is to simply SS into DES 1, it's shockingly effective at evading quick retaliations and is also safe!
I don’t think 1+2 exists solely for heat dash. You can use chainsaw heat engagers for this and they will go away after the dash so you get the same combos
its funny yes i always do that 11 frame interrupt move after transition
Amazing video, thanks a lot
Pretty helpful, sir
Great video bro!
Cheers!
Thanks for the information
Can you evade the lows going right too?
Playerbase: "ooooh, I hate playing against Alisa because chainsaw mix-up is cheap and she can win because you guess wrong"
also playerbase: "Kazuya is one of the most fun characters to face because it's all about mind games and making reads"
Kazuya's mix is just a 50/50, you either pick mid or low. It's like the easiest concept to understand so everyone at every level knows how it works. It's easy to call something cheap when you don't know what's happening.
Hey whisperer, in t8 there is a character with easy as hell combo like my girl t7 katarina?
Paul is easy to combo with if you don't do anything crazy.
Alisa. Launch, uf1, dash, uf1. The easiest 70 dmg of your life
Do power crush moves or heat burst help vs DES?
Im trying it with Jin and for f21, cant step it, the timing must be hard.
hold on, what happens if the Alisa anticipates you'll sidestep Right, so they sidestep in the appropriate position to realign themselves with you. then you're just gonna eat the mix lol.
Noooo, don't make me learn, then I can't complain!
Dude rofl you are complaining
@@FrameWhisperer curse you for making me a better player! I will never forgive you!
First game where chainsaws works as intended. She might be viable for tournaments now.
As a fellow Alisa main, thank you so much for this video.
Hopefully, these kinds of brilliant tutorials and guides help to curb the plug problem and community toxicity.
I get its a competitive fighting game but I hate when people start pointing fingers and calling people bad players just for playing a particular character. Ex. King, Alisa, Victor, Noctis, Drag, Hwo... etc. Some of us dont have time to spend 5 hours drilling EWGF in practise mode, so its nice to have characters with strong kits that dont have complex inputs. We all have fun in our own way
That's a valid opinion. But here's my argument - your fun isn't more important than my fun. And I shouldn't have to watch a 20-minute video to deal with a dumb gimmick, cause my character (Jin) doesn't have one. It's not fun for me to lose 3-0 cause I have no idea idea when and how exactly am I supposed to counter this crap on reaction and all I can do is block and pray that Alisa player does something dumb off the script
@azazamat You play a Mishima and you're complaining about watching character tutorial videos? Long reply incoming. I'm not flaming you just hear me out.
Jin is also a much stronger character than Alisa in the right hands imo. I don't really think the chainsaws are a gimmick either it's just a fun aspect of the character. Yoshis got a demon sword, Devil Jin Shoots lasers, Jun shoots beams of light, King can deal optimal combo damage with like 3 inputs, Paul's got a super duper mega punch, Dragnov can cancel his inputs to mess you up, Mishimas have electrics and hellsweeps, Hwo has endless pressure, Claudio has magical powers, Zafina has a literal demon in her arm, Victor's a little bitch, Lee has perfect inputs, Law has nunchucks and crazy flips, Leroy has wingchun parries, I'm certain there's more.
While I respect your desire to have fun, you should also respect mine. Disrespecting other people character choice because they think it's fun and you don't is pretty ignorant considering most of the characters that have been put into the game since the first game have a "gimmick" as you call it that's hard to deal with with if you don't learn the match up. If learning a match-up and that little rush of dopamine you get when you finally start punishing a move that destroyed you earlier isn't fun for you, then you probably just don't like fighting games. But I'm sure you actually do, and you're just at the point where this match up is frustrating.
Try hopping into practise with Alisa and learning her kit, there's honestly not that much.
I'm also happy to spar and just play Alisa like a cunt in a controlled environment so you can learn how to deal with it, because then I can learn how to deal with some of the Jin shit that bugs me.
Again I'm not flaming you, I just don't know why the Tekken 8 community is so plug heavy and rude. I swear half the roster will have you accused of being "carried" by some angry player online.
@azazamat I think my reply got deleted for being too long or something. Long story short I respect your opinion but I think you'd have more fun by just learning the match up since a lot of characters tend to have a frustrating aspect to there kit if you don't know it.
@doomstothfilms but then we return to your initial point - just like with your example with EWGF, I also don't have 5 hours to learn every single match-up and gimmick. Obviously, I try to remember common things, but 32 characters with ~100 moves each isn't really something you can just pick up in an evening.
@azazamat I mean yeah, I have nothing to disagee with there. But we can't just remove the complex kits of Tekken because it simply wouldn't be fun to learn at that point.
Plus lets give ourselves a bit more credit. We have time to play the game, and that time could instead be used in practise or learning match ups. We don't have all day to do it like a teenager or a pro player but we can still put in the time to learn, just much slower. That's just kind of the reality of competitive games in general.
I got really really frustrated going against Victor, and I only play for like 2-3 hours a day if I'm even playing games that day. But I did find time to just sit in practise as Victor and examine his frames and now I'm not losing that match up most of the time. A I 6-0d a Victor yesterday and felt really good about it because I knew what he was going to do.
Nooo frame, now i can't beat scrubs :(
A neat little thing that was shown to me by a random hopkick spammer in matchmaking is that you can interrupt chainsaw d1 > d1 with a hopkick on hit, since its only +4 and has 21 startup.
:)
Could've saved 22 minutes by saying, "Just Guess"
It's a fighting game.
Nooooo dont tell em!!! I will buy 200$ in Tekken Coins if you dont take it down…. lol jk nice video 😂
Innocent Chainsaw girl gets OWNED by BIG swedish man
People have been watching this video why you hurting Alisa players i legit watched someone do this .
Why does she get a safe mid launcher in DES 2
Okay, so it is basically rock, paper scissors. You can duck, unless she does a mid, you can step unless she does a tracking move with them, you can block, but you will never stop being mashed, you can block but she can do a low. Really annoying character. No wonder why people are toxic torwards the character when only thing you can do is predict, KBD if you can even do it or eat endless plus frames moves.
TMM had a plastic surgery
Please take down the video. No one should know how to counter our chainsaws.
DELETE THIS NOW
hmm the character has clear and applicable counter play, all it takes is some studying......
Nah, dishonest. Play a more popular character next time! 😉
Big fan of this type of video. Respect