"Who cares where they come down - that's not my department, says Wernher von Braun" Love the IWM for showing us Tom Lehrer, born in 1928 - and still alive as we speak.
I was born in Huntsville, AL in 1968. Our next door neighbor came over with Von Braun in Operation Paperclip although I do not recall his name now. My Dad became friends with him and he would tell my dad war stories (mainly about his brothers time in North Africa as a Wehrmacht surgeon). Apparently the Italian forces they were with wanted to retreat every time there was a sandstorm because they thought it was the allies attacking. He NEVER spoke about what he did himself during the war though.
Helmut Gröttrup who led the German scientists working for the Soviets, was very well treated and certainly a better scientist than his former boss, von Braun.
It’s not complicated. Not at all complicated. Pretty bloody straightforward, I reckon. If those rockets had been coming down on New York or Baltimore then I very much doubt he’d have been recruited and lauded, somehow. It’s an insult to those in Europe who were killed by Brauns work. I’m very much with Tom Lehrer on this one.
Or if people from Ohio had been worked to death to build the rockets… von Braun’s crime is not so much hitting Britain as using slave labour from his own and other countries
The Yanks only entered the 1914-1918 war when it suited them in April 1917 and the 1939-1945 war in December 1941 when the Japanese gave them no excuse not to.
@@lachlanchester8142 Baltimore was actually a major naval and merchant shipbuilding and maintenance port during WW II and its population peaked immediately after the war
WVB knew very well what was going on at the Dora concentration camp. I know this because my mother's cousin was a slave laborer at Dora building V2 rockets and reported seeing him many times. If you can read French, find 'La Planete Dora" by Yves Beon. There is an English translation however I don't know how well it compares with the original.
Is it fair to say the moon program was also to develop the technology for ICBMs? So Braun was basically developing the ICBMs the U.S. needed to compete with the USSR?
He was a Nazi. He used slave labour to build his rockets, in service to the most heinous regime in human history. He was personally responsible for the deaths of thousands. He jumped ship to save his skin. He developed rockets that ultimately landed men on the moon. He was an opportunist who was there when the west needed him most. He is the classic example of pragmatic politics. Never a hero, always a villain- but he was our villain.
well to quote Tom Lehrer's song Wernher von Braun song..."Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? That's not my department, " says Wernher von Braun.
Tom Bower's books, "Blind Eye to Murder" [post-war cover-up of widespread, generalised atrocities in Europe, done mostly by Nazis] and another, "Paperclip Conspiracy", examined selection of those guilty of war crimes but not prosecuted, being deemed useful to the USA.
Von braun was a scientist through and through. He was willing to go along with any politics that would fund his projects. He was not a Nazi idealogically, but he did have to align himself with the nazi party to maintain funding for his projects. He wanted to explore space. He did not care who he worked for, he just wanted to make rockets and push the limits of space exploration.
* willing to go along with any politics that would fund his projects * The end justifies the means does it ? Just as well for all that Christian society doesn't think so . . .
@@MF-og1ct I think that everything in your comment is probably correct, but that doesn’t necessarily make me feel better about von Braun. It really makes him sound like a mad scientist in a James Bond film.
Look at that computer room at 0.25 seconds.. Not as powerful as todays iPhone 😳😳 How technology has moved🤔 (I’ve no idea how powerful an iPhone is by comparison😉)
I mean, whoever won the space race hinges on what you define that race as. I see it as the race into space, so in my view, the USSR won it. america put a human on the moon first, but that would be the race to put a human on the moon, not the space race. america just can't handle the fact that USSR beat them.
@@RatluBoogerbag That's a dumb way to look at it. The entire point of the space race was to flex over each other their scientific might. Thd USSR got to space first, but it helped bankrupt them and stepping on the moon is a much more fundamental achievement
I disagree with you there, though you are absolutely right that the ussr was in the lead at first but that is the point of a race. I think the greatest argument for the US winning is that after apollo 11 the USSR kind of gave up where the US still continued for a decade (yes there were still some things like mir but the soviet leadership lost interest after the moon landing).
@@dookyee the soviet achievements far outstrip the american ones. The claim the the US won it due to the moon landing comes as a result of the US simply needing to portray the idea that they were winning. The fact is that the USSR didnt even prioritize landing on the moon the same way the US did. Here are a couple of notable achievements the USSR achieved before anyone else. While they didnt put a man on the moon, they were the first to get something to the moon, the first to photograph the far side of it, the first to land on it, the first to send living beings around it (tortoises) and the first to put a probe in orbit of the moon. 1957: First satellite 1957: First animal in Earth orbit 1959: First rocket ignition in Earth orbit 1959: first man-made object to escape Earth's gravity 1959: First data communications to and from outer space, 1959: First man-made object to pass near the Moon 1959: First man-made object in Heliocentric orbit 1959: First probe to impact the Moon 1959: First images of the Moon's far side 1961: First probe launched to Venus 1961: First person in space and in Earth orbit 1962: First dual crewed spaceflight 1962: First probe launched to Mars 1965: First extra-vehicular activity 1965: First radio telescope in space 1965: First probe to hit another planet of the Solar System 1966: First probe to make a soft landing on and transmit from the surface of the Moon 1966: First probe in lunar orbit 1967: First uncrewed rendezvous and docking 1968: First living beings to reach the Moon and return unharmed to Earth 1969: First docking between two crewed craft in Earth orbit and exchange of crews 1970: First soil samples automatically extracted and returned to Earth from another celestial body 1970: First robotic space rover 1970: First full interplanetary travel with a soft landing 1970: First data received from the surface of another planet of the Solar System 1971: First space station 1971: First probe to land on Mars 1975: First probe to orbit Venus and to make a soft landing on Venus. 1975: First photos from Venus 1986: First permanently crewed space station 1988: First fully automated flight of a spaceplane
National Socialist rather than Socialist. Socialism is of the traditional left. National Socialism is of the far right. Wernher von Braun was never a socialist, for pragmatic or any other reasons. His own telling of his biography is/was patchy at best and probably deliberately dishonest. He joined the Nazi party willingly in 1937 but said under oath that it was 1939 and under duress. He had been a member of the SS before that, but had left. He re-joined the SS in 1940 and said that the only time he wore the uniform was when he was photographed in it. This claim has since been shot down by several former colleagues who swore under oath that he wore it frequently. I do not judge (and I have no right to) but Wernher von Braun walked like a duck and he talked like a duck. In all likelihood, he was a duck. 😮
"Who cares where they come down - that's not my department, says Wernher von Braun"
Love the IWM for showing us Tom Lehrer, born in 1928 - and still alive as we speak.
I was born in Huntsville, AL in 1968. Our next door neighbor came over with Von Braun in Operation Paperclip although I do not recall his name now. My Dad became friends with him and he would tell my dad war stories (mainly about his brothers time in North Africa as a Wehrmacht surgeon). Apparently the Italian forces they were with wanted to retreat every time there was a sandstorm because they thought it was the allies attacking. He NEVER spoke about what he did himself during the war though.
"Our Germans are better then their Germans" - The Right Stuff
"Then" is NOT a synonym for "than"...
"I aim at the stars, but I keep hitting London."
The same also happened with the Soviet Union with scientists and plane designs
No, the Soviets shot Nazi's.
Except the Russian used them hard not pamper like us , there is a good book on operation paper clip that talks about that
Helmut Gröttrup who led the German scientists working for the Soviets, was very well treated and certainly a better scientist than his former boss, von Braun.
It’s not complicated. Not at all complicated. Pretty bloody straightforward, I reckon.
If those rockets had been coming down on New York or Baltimore then I very much doubt he’d have been recruited and lauded, somehow. It’s an insult to those in Europe who were killed by Brauns work.
I’m very much with Tom Lehrer on this one.
Or if people from Ohio had been worked to death to build the rockets… von Braun’s crime is not so much hitting Britain as using slave labour from his own and other countries
Baltimore is a strange choice
Don't be naive.
Individuals like you and I may feel that way. Countries are pragmatic.
They have knowledge, we want knowledge.
The Yanks only entered the 1914-1918 war when it suited them in April 1917 and the 1939-1945 war in December 1941 when the Japanese gave them no excuse not to.
@@lachlanchester8142 Baltimore was actually a major naval and merchant shipbuilding and maintenance port during WW II and its population peaked immediately after the war
A very smart and good looking definition of a mad Scientist
Take a read about Hubertus Strughold, he did a lot of the crewed space flight science , was a monster but not outted until 80s
In Werner Von Braun’s case it ended up being “You either die a villain or you live long enough to see yourself become the hero.”
WVB knew very well what was going on at the Dora concentration camp. I know this because my mother's cousin was a slave laborer at Dora building V2 rockets and reported seeing him many times. If you can read French, find 'La Planete Dora" by Yves Beon. There is an English translation however I don't know how well it compares with the original.
Thanks for your important note about this!
I completely agree he knew. Ask yourself what would have happened if he had objected.
Is it fair to say the moon program was also to develop the technology for ICBMs? So Braun was basically developing the ICBMs the U.S. needed to compete with the USSR?
‘Our Germans are better than their Germans’
A true LOL moment in that film.
He was a Nazi. He used slave labour to build his rockets, in service to the most heinous regime in human history. He was personally responsible for the deaths of thousands. He jumped ship to save his skin. He developed rockets that ultimately landed men on the moon. He was an opportunist who was there when the west needed him most. He is the classic example of pragmatic politics. Never a hero, always a villain- but he was our villain.
Your knowledge of history seems to be tainted with your rascist views - Von Braun had no choice in the matter.
@@umtatraining Now that bit of history is what helped make Dr. Strangelove funny, oh and Slim Pickens of course.
nothing quite says hypocrisy quite like having your brutal former enemies
crawl into bed with you so you can "continue to profit" from their work....
"Our Germans are better than their Germans." - The Right Stuff (1983)
Tech tree upgrade for the cold war
well to quote Tom Lehrer's song Wernher von Braun song..."Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down?
That's not my department, " says Wernher von Braun.
"I'm just a train conductor. What happens to the cargo is not my department" said the guy traveling to and from Auschwitz.
GOT PAPERCLIPS?
"There is just one thing I can promise you about the outer-space program - your tax-dollar will go further."
-- Wernher von Braun
Who's worse; the villains or the ones that hire them?
The villains.
@@jonathan_careless
the villains wouldn't be villains if nobody gave them the job
Tom Bower's books, "Blind Eye to Murder" [post-war cover-up of widespread, generalised atrocities in Europe, done mostly by Nazis]
and another, "Paperclip Conspiracy", examined selection of those guilty of war crimes but not prosecuted, being deemed useful to the USA.
Interesting 🧐
" The world is grey .............. " .
The Elon Musk of the 20th Century.
Producing hot air on several continents and telling everyone how great he is.
Tom Lehrer got it right in his song abt von Braun. But von Braun was still a great scientist.
It happened again.
Controversial yes but part of Operation Paperclip 📎🖇️
Germany and the USA were the most industrially advanced countries during ww2. The Americans had to take the best people, or the Soviets would.
What about Hans Kammler? What kind of deal did he get? Other than his faked death.
Von braun was a scientist through and through. He was willing to go along with any politics that would fund his projects. He was not a Nazi idealogically, but he did have to align himself with the nazi party to maintain funding for his projects. He wanted to explore space.
He did not care who he worked for, he just wanted to make rockets and push the limits of space exploration.
* willing to go along with any politics that would fund his projects * The end justifies the means does it ? Just as well for all that Christian society doesn't think so . . .
How many jews died under his leadership at german rocket factories... nazi aerospace agency
@@MF-og1ct I think that everything in your comment is probably correct, but that doesn’t necessarily make me feel better about von Braun. It really makes him sound like a mad scientist in a James Bond film.
@@EllieMaes-Grandad I am not saying that is morally correct, this is just my analysis of his character.
@@wxwaxone James bond mad scientist is actually kinda right I think, though not as goofy.
ruclips.net/video/QEJ9HrZq7Ro/видео.htmlsi=p10BlL1Qo0-kNIAw
@adamrodaway1074 this is genius
i was thinking the same thing too
I live just around the corner from the first V2 rocket strike.
Were you there at the time?
Someone lives near where the first V2 rocket struck
My house was destroyed by a V2 in Feb 1945 along with several others with 6 killed
US mutated his name to Dr Brown to avoid the very german name
@@jayrigger7508 He then made a time machine out of a Delorean.
@@jayrigger7508 No we did’t. It was always von Braun.
@@bl3313 And eventually a steam locomotive.
It’s almost the same pronunciation.
Just a man passionate about rockets.
and indifferent to humanity
@@ganndeber1621
Just like everybody else in that time
Look at that computer room at 0.25 seconds..
Not as powerful as todays iPhone 😳😳
How technology has moved🤔
(I’ve no idea how powerful an iPhone is by comparison😉)
They used op amp calculators which are analog. The pocket calculator was developed by NASA for this.
I mean, whoever won the space race hinges on what you define that race as. I see it as the race into space, so in my view, the USSR won it. america put a human on the moon first, but that would be the race to put a human on the moon, not the space race. america just can't handle the fact that USSR beat them.
Good point.
@@RatluBoogerbag That's a dumb way to look at it. The entire point of the space race was to flex over each other their scientific might. Thd USSR got to space first, but it helped bankrupt them and stepping on the moon is a much more fundamental achievement
I disagree with you there, though you are absolutely right that the ussr was in the lead at first but that is the point of a race.
I think the greatest argument for the US winning is that after apollo 11 the USSR kind of gave up where the US still continued for a decade (yes there were still some things like mir but the soviet leadership lost interest after the moon landing).
@@dookyee the soviet achievements far outstrip the american ones. The claim the the US won it due to the moon landing comes as a result of the US simply needing to portray the idea that they were winning. The fact is that the USSR didnt even prioritize landing on the moon the same way the US did. Here are a couple of notable achievements the USSR achieved before anyone else. While they didnt put a man on the moon, they were the first to get something to the moon, the first to photograph the far side of it, the first to land on it, the first to send living beings around it (tortoises) and the first to put a probe in orbit of the moon.
1957: First satellite
1957: First animal in Earth orbit
1959: First rocket ignition in Earth orbit
1959: first man-made object to escape Earth's gravity
1959: First data communications to and from outer space,
1959: First man-made object to pass near the Moon
1959: First man-made object in Heliocentric orbit
1959: First probe to impact the Moon
1959: First images of the Moon's far side
1961: First probe launched to Venus
1961: First person in space and in Earth orbit
1962: First dual crewed spaceflight
1962: First probe launched to Mars
1965: First extra-vehicular activity
1965: First radio telescope in space
1965: First probe to hit another planet of the Solar System
1966: First probe to make a soft landing on and transmit from the surface of the Moon
1966: First probe in lunar orbit
1967: First uncrewed rendezvous and docking
1968: First living beings to reach the Moon and return unharmed to Earth
1969: First docking between two crewed craft in Earth orbit and exchange of crews
1970: First soil samples automatically extracted and returned to Earth from another celestial body
1970: First robotic space rover
1970: First full interplanetary travel with a soft landing
1970: First data received from the surface of another planet of the Solar System
1971: First space station
1971: First probe to land on Mars
1975: First probe to orbit Venus and to make a soft landing on Venus.
1975: First photos from Venus
1986: First permanently crewed space station
1988: First fully automated flight of a spaceplane
@@halmstadrapbeats8084You know what USSR or Russia doesn’t have? Their flag flying on the Moon.
I have never once called this man a hero.
and never will
Von Braun, later said that he became a Socialist in 1930s Germany to advance his academic career and out of fear of imprisonment or execution.
Of course he’d say that.
What kind of socialist, socialist or national socialist?
Funny how the Nazis call themselves socialists even though they are fascists. Like how North Korea has ‘democratic’ in their name but are fascist.
@@milibaindeed. Worth clarifying that one.
National Socialist rather than Socialist.
Socialism is of the traditional left.
National Socialism is of the far right.
Wernher von Braun was never a socialist, for pragmatic or any other reasons.
His own telling of his biography is/was patchy at best and probably deliberately dishonest.
He joined the Nazi party willingly in 1937 but said under oath that it was 1939 and under duress.
He had been a member of the SS before that, but had left.
He re-joined the SS in 1940 and said that the only time he wore the uniform was when he was photographed in it.
This claim has since been shot down by several former colleagues who swore under oath that he wore it frequently.
I do not judge (and I have no right to) but Wernher von Braun walked like a duck and he talked like a duck.
In all likelihood, he was a duck. 😮
Thank you, for reminding Americans of the dark side of the H-1B visa debate. Am in total agreement with Tom Lehrer on this subject!
The villain in Indiana Jones: The Dial of Destiny had a similar career and background like Von Braun.
As always with the Brittish they love to color history.
Von Braun did not use slave labor. The proof is overwelming that he did not.
“Now face the wall kraut!”