It's always good to pay for music directly, buy the cd, purchase the digital album or songs, attend concerts, buy merch and stream . I like to purchase songs/cds/albums and digital downloads.
Hi Tony! GREAT video. Best explanation of streaming I've ever seen, and. as you know, I've seen a few... Love the plug for CD's, too- and, by the way, I got my recent order and the discs look amazing. Thank you!
Very informative breakdown of the streaming services and their payout! Nice work! I'm still not a fan of streaming services, but I suppose that's because you have to fight to collect royalties (especially from Spotify), and when you FINALLY get them it's almost an insult versus what you're spending to record/promote/release your music. I'm going to release EPs every 3-4 months and do a decent marketing campaign for each. In recording costs I'm spending on average $1k per song (studio/producer rates), another $700-800 for mastering each EP, $1k on pressing CDs (via CD Baby), $1k shirts/promo posters/misc merch, and finally anywhere from $2-10k for marketing (depending on touring cycle and number of markets). Per EP I'm investing $11k-$20k. The last check I got for streaming was so low I didn't even bother cashing it.
Well, you don't have to fight to get paid from Spotify. If you distribute with CD Baby the payments happen automatically, and are pretty fast. As you found, they're also pretty minimal. Your budget sounds smart and appropriate: lots of funds for marketing, which you need. To achieve success you need to play the long game, releasing multiple singles, EPs, and albums over a period of years. These all build on the success of the previous one, to make you an "overnight success" years from now. We're here for you when you need us.
Tony van Veen I’ve used CD Baby in the past, am still a member, and plan to utilize your services for future releases (love the company). When I was speaking about Spotify and fighting to get the streaming funds, I was talking in broad generalities. Spotify still isn’t paying the artist all that they are owed is more of what I meant. I’m not a huge fan of how streaming services are structured, and at the end of the day the artists with major backing are going to get pushed to bigger playlists and make more per stream. It’s essentially modern day payola. As an independent artist there is still more value in touring, meeting people, having actual conversations and leaving them with a tangible product versus hoping they stumble across my new release in a sea of tens of thousands of new songs monthly. All in all I can make more in royalties playing my songs live nightly rather than from streaming services, and that is an issue, hahaha! Love the videos and the services you cats offer to musicians and artists like myself. I’m back in the studio to begin mixing the first EP the beginning of October and will undoubtedly be utilizing CD Baby!! Cheers!
you're spending too much on the creation imo, a lot of these things with production can be done for free, you should cut down your costs and increase the marketing budget only and release singles instead of ep to build more hype, plus you'll recoup money that way. lemme know if you need more info.
They pay chump change bro. What needs to be.done.is a conference/workshop of all the independent.alternative platforms.and work out a new.system! The big entities.have ruined the old music industry!
Love these. Please keep at it, Tony. Cheers! I am still on the fence regarding CDs, since so few people buy them now. I wouldn't mind starting with 10-20 CDs, but I don't think most services will press that low of a number?
Spotify is a publicly traded company. Their info is available. Apple and Amazon are divisions of much larger companies, so it's pretty much impossible to know.
Tony, thanks again for the words of wisdom, it really helps! Personally, I'd like to see a video on what an your average Joe should do on licensing (both cover and original songs). Grazie, Lou
Streaming is a pay for use service while the old model (ie CDs) is a pay once model. Eventually the pay for use model will align with the pay once model. The artist just aren't getting their profits up front anymore which makes it harder for them over time.
The model has definitely shifted, and that is not in and of itself a bad thing. The payments per stream are so small, however, that it becomes almost impossible to make the kind of money from streaming as from a CD sale. For example, using my stats above, you'd need 2,727 streams to make the profit equivalent of selling one CD for $10 at a show ($9 profit margin, divided by $.0033 = 2,727). That's like listening to a 10 song album 270 times! Now, you can argue that artists used to be overpaid in the era of physical media... but that's a tough argument to make. What needs to happen is streaming prices need to increase so streaming pays more.
You forgot something. Spotify only pays that amount for NEW, unique user streams. Once a user hears your song their streams are worth less and less. I’ve seen TINY fractions of a cent, even worse than RUclips ad pay on Spotify because they were repeat listeners. I understand why they do it that way, it just really sucks. Also, I genuinely don’t believe RUclips pays that much. One of my bands has about 250,000 plays on RUclips and we’ve gotten about $11 from it. Great video though!
Actually, Spotify pays the same whether it's a first time or repeat stream. Their difference in streaming payouts depends on whether it's a stream from a paid subscriber (which pays a higher rate) or from a free, ad-supported listener (which pays much less).
Great info, but you must have an elephant’s share of streams on ad-supported RUclips. All the other services pay well above your 0.33 ¢ average, so it seems RUclips may be good for publicity but not for profits.
Yes, ad-supported RUclips is one of the biggest music channels out there, and at 6/100th of a penny per play it certainly reduces the average paid across all plays.
i cant wait for the day when all streaming services pay a penny per stream. That would really help artist such as my self. How can you divide a penny up 3 ways is really some fuck shit if you ask me
People say there's no money in music anymore, but big name artists CAN still make money, especially if they tour. At least now, small artists, who often have their own studios, have MANY places to get their music out to the public. I'd say overall, things are better than they used to be.
The main agenda or the mind set of people running these companies is to lure artists saying it's a platform to empower you so you can reach a wider audience around the world but the problem with that is they won't pay the artist what the artist actually deserves. I think streaming services should " only be allowed " to use demo or previews of the artists material and the main product should be on artists own website, so the listener can go and buy the song to support the artist directly. OR they pay the artist on his / her terms if they want to release something exclusive from their streaming service, i think this should be the system, plain and simple.
Could anyone, please explain his math formula he used ? Quite frankly, I personally think he is not quiet sure about his mathematics. I even turned on the captions to even try to read his math formula he used.
Simple grade school math. I divided the total revenue from each streaming company over the past 90 days by the number of streams, to come up with an average payment per stream.
@@tonyvv Hi, how do you come out with only $ 3.30 for 1000 streams if each stream pays an average of 0.33 cents. Is not it 1000 × 0.33 = 330.00 Dollars ? I thank you.
@@MrLUISGARCIA02 Ah but it's not 1000 x $0.33. $0.33 = 33 cents. We are talking about 0.33 cents. So the math is 1000 x $0.0033 = $3.30. Or, to put it another way, using your formula, 1000 x 0.33 cents = 330 CENTS, not dollars. Which is, of course, $3.30 dollars.
Yup, basically, until you get big, with a loyal following who regularly listens to your music so you rack up lots of streams. Simple math: 1,000 streams, $3.30. 1,000,000 streams, $3,300.
The U.S.'s largest retailers of cd's, places like Target, will soon no longer carry CD's. Most newer cars don't have cd players. Most newer computers as well. Most people don't buy CD's. Look at the charts. Many significant sized record companies don't make CD's at all or only make very small runs. This person is the CEO of Discmakers . Unfortunately for him the down turn in his business is dramatic. While many streaming companies are Pirate lite operations paying out negligible amounts. Some like Apple are significant in size and are more reasonable in pay out.
Apple's payout is not reasonable.. none of them are, but it's funny the services that care about audio quality and artists such as Qobuz and Tidal are the ones that payout the most, but still pathetic rates for smaller artists. I can see why plenty of artists are anti-streaming, and I as a consumer hate streaming as well. I don't want to lease music that can yanked from under my feet at anytime, which happens a lot. I want PHYSICAL ownership, lossless quality, best support paid towards the artist, liner notes and an ACTUAL music collection. Not some collection of files on a hard drive, not some playlist on some streaming service that will inevitably be full of gaping holes as licenses expire or artists yank music. Two biggest crimes against music, streaming and dynamic range compression.
The streaming does, of course. And selling discs does too, especially if you perform live. It is estimated that rappers like Drake and Nicki Minaj have left millions of $$ on the table by releasing product just digitally, and not making and distributing CDs and vinyl for every release.
@@tonyvv thanks I was wondering as I know after Big Sean last CD before this one he went all digital as a few more Artist I know personally but I think you got to have the right audience for CDs if your a Rapper 35 and Up
Right now to my knowledge all subscriber streams pay the same, and all ad supported streams also pay the same, but at a lower rate than subscriber streams. Your average py per stream just depends on the mix of subscriber and ad supported listeners you have.
It's time for the musicians to fight back and get 100%of their money or it's only gonna get worse this new technology is modern day slavery start selling your music independently in usbs or keep getting chicken feed
I've never streamed music before. Never been to Spotify or Apple music (or whatever their service is called), or listened to music on Amazon or Tidal. I'll watch videos of songs from time to time on RUclips, I don't know if that counts for this example. Wow, I'm starting to sound like an old fart, but that's not where I'm goin' with this comment. What I'm getting at is, I don't know what it costs to listen to music in this way. What does the end user pay per stream? Are they paying, like 99 cents per song? And then the artist receives this tiny pittance of fractions of a penny? If that's what's happening, then I won't be partaking in music streaming. I was a young musician, once.....a really long time ago. I think I'd rather find a job than try to scrape a living from this kinda practice of counting parts of pennies. But, like I said, I don't know how the whole deal works. Enlighten me and I'll thank you for it.
To listen to streaming you pay a fixed subscription rate of approx. $10/month in the US. For that you can listen to unlimited music. You don't pay per stream, but the artist gets paid per stream.
@@tonyvv I see. I didn't think of it that way until after I posted, of course. Thanks, Tony. I appreciate the informative videos you make. Liked the tour video, too. Keep it up and I hope the honest, info filled vids transfer into continued success for you.
MISLEADING INFO. 0.33 x 1000 = $ 330.00 Dollars. He stated: 0.33 x 1000 = $ 3.30 Dollars. He just flat wants every musician to keep ordering CDs from his company. Just do the math yourself.
Luis, I explained you the math. Your math is wrong, mine is right. Here is the right math: Each stream on average pays 0.33 cents. 0.33 CENTS x 1000 streams = 330 CENTS... NOT 330 D.O.L.L.A.R.S.
It's always good to pay for music directly, buy the cd, purchase the digital album or songs, attend concerts, buy merch and stream . I like to purchase songs/cds/albums and digital downloads.
Thanks for the clarification Tony - really appreciate it. Keep coming with the videos - they're great! Cheers!
Hi Tony! GREAT video. Best explanation of streaming I've ever seen, and. as you know, I've seen a few... Love the plug for CD's, too- and, by the way, I got my recent order and the discs look amazing. Thank you!
Thanks for posting this.
Yes sir!
This video was very helpful,Thank You!
Very informative breakdown of the streaming services and their payout! Nice work! I'm still not a fan of streaming services, but I suppose that's because you have to fight to collect royalties (especially from Spotify), and when you FINALLY get them it's almost an insult versus what you're spending to record/promote/release your music. I'm going to release EPs every 3-4 months and do a decent marketing campaign for each. In recording costs I'm spending on average $1k per song (studio/producer rates), another $700-800 for mastering each EP, $1k on pressing CDs (via CD Baby), $1k shirts/promo posters/misc merch, and finally anywhere from $2-10k for marketing (depending on touring cycle and number of markets). Per EP I'm investing $11k-$20k. The last check I got for streaming was so low I didn't even bother cashing it.
Well, you don't have to fight to get paid from Spotify. If you distribute with CD Baby the payments happen automatically, and are pretty fast. As you found, they're also pretty minimal. Your budget sounds smart and appropriate: lots of funds for marketing, which you need. To achieve success you need to play the long game, releasing multiple singles, EPs, and albums over a period of years. These all build on the success of the previous one, to make you an "overnight success" years from now. We're here for you when you need us.
Tony van Veen I’ve used CD Baby in the past, am still a member, and plan to utilize your services for future releases (love the company). When I was speaking about Spotify and fighting to get the streaming funds, I was talking in broad generalities. Spotify still isn’t paying the artist all that they are owed is more of what I meant. I’m not a huge fan of how streaming services are structured, and at the end of the day the artists with major backing are going to get pushed to bigger playlists and make more per stream. It’s essentially modern day payola. As an independent artist there is still more value in touring, meeting people, having actual conversations and leaving them with a tangible product versus hoping they stumble across my new release in a sea of tens of thousands of new songs monthly. All in all I can make more in royalties playing my songs live nightly rather than from streaming services, and that is an issue, hahaha! Love the videos and the services you cats offer to musicians and artists like myself. I’m back in the studio to begin mixing the first EP the beginning of October and will undoubtedly be utilizing CD Baby!! Cheers!
you're spending too much on the creation imo, a lot of these things with production can be done for free, you should cut down your costs and increase the marketing budget only and release singles instead of ep to build more hype, plus you'll recoup money that way. lemme know if you need more info.
They pay chump change bro. What needs to be.done.is a conference/workshop of all the independent.alternative platforms.and work out a new.system! The big entities.have ruined the old music industry!
You mean the one where artists ended up broke and pennyless?
@@allywilkeforsenate all artists are broke and pennyless to this day
Love these. Please keep at it, Tony. Cheers! I am still on the fence regarding CDs, since so few people buy them now. I wouldn't mind starting with 10-20 CDs, but I don't think most services will press that low of a number?
If you play live, people still buy them, mostly to support the artist. Especially if you autograph them after your set. Our minimum is 50.
I would love to know what the streaming companies actually make.
Spotify is a publicly traded company. Their info is available. Apple and Amazon are divisions of much larger companies, so it's pretty much impossible to know.
Tony, thanks again for the words of wisdom, it really helps! Personally, I'd like to see a video on what an your average Joe should do on licensing (both cover and original songs). Grazie, Lou
What?..Now I have to go play a concert?..WTF?
Streaming is a pay for use service while the old model (ie CDs) is a pay once model. Eventually the pay for use model will align with the pay once model. The artist just aren't getting their profits up front anymore which makes it harder for them over time.
The model has definitely shifted, and that is not in and of itself a bad thing. The payments per stream are so small, however, that it becomes almost impossible to make the kind of money from streaming as from a CD sale. For example, using my stats above, you'd need 2,727 streams to make the profit equivalent of selling one CD for $10 at a show ($9 profit margin, divided by $.0033 = 2,727). That's like listening to a 10 song album 270 times! Now, you can argue that artists used to be overpaid in the era of physical media... but that's a tough argument to make. What needs to happen is streaming prices need to increase so streaming pays more.
You forgot something. Spotify only pays that amount for NEW, unique user streams. Once a user hears your song their streams are worth less and less. I’ve seen TINY fractions of a cent, even worse than RUclips ad pay on Spotify because they were repeat listeners. I understand why they do it that way, it just really sucks. Also, I genuinely don’t believe RUclips pays that much. One of my bands has about 250,000 plays on RUclips and we’ve gotten about $11 from it. Great video though!
Actually, Spotify pays the same whether it's a first time or repeat stream. Their difference in streaming payouts depends on whether it's a stream from a paid subscriber (which pays a higher rate) or from a free, ad-supported listener (which pays much less).
Great info, but you must have an elephant’s share of streams on ad-supported RUclips. All the other services pay well above your 0.33 ¢ average, so it seems RUclips may be good for publicity but not for profits.
Yes, ad-supported RUclips is one of the biggest music channels out there, and at 6/100th of a penny per play it certainly reduces the average paid across all plays.
el2cold was HERE!
i cant wait for the day when all streaming services pay a penny per stream. That would really help artist such as my self. How can you divide a penny up 3 ways is really some fuck shit if you ask me
A penny per stream/view is good af, and thats exactly why they won't give it to us lol
People say there's no money in music anymore, but big name artists CAN still make money, especially if they tour. At least now, small artists, who often have their own studios, have MANY places to get their music out to the public. I'd say overall, things are better than they used to be.
I have to agree.
The main agenda or the mind set of people running these companies is to lure artists saying it's a platform to empower you so you can reach a wider audience around the world but the problem with that is they won't pay the artist what the artist actually deserves.
I think streaming services should " only be allowed " to use demo or previews of the artists material and the main product should be on artists own website, so the listener can go and buy the song to support the artist directly.
OR they pay the artist on his / her terms if they want to release something exclusive from their streaming service, i think this should be the system, plain and simple.
Yeah, that ship sailed a long time ago...
Could anyone, please explain his math formula he used ?
Quite frankly, I personally think he is not quiet sure about his mathematics.
I even turned on the captions to even try to read his math formula he used.
Simple grade school math. I divided the total revenue from each streaming company over the past 90 days by the number of streams, to come up with an average payment per stream.
@@tonyvv Hi, how do you come out with only $ 3.30 for 1000 streams if each stream pays an average of 0.33 cents.
Is not it 1000 × 0.33 = 330.00 Dollars ?
I thank you.
@@MrLUISGARCIA02 Ah but it's not 1000 x $0.33. $0.33 = 33 cents. We are talking about 0.33 cents. So the math is 1000 x $0.0033 = $3.30. Or, to put it another way, using your formula, 1000 x 0.33 cents = 330 CENTS, not dollars. Which is, of course, $3.30 dollars.
Damn sucks we don’t CDs anymore
Sooo maybe it's me but this guy basically just said an artist will not make much money unless an artist sales his own music.
Yup, basically, until you get big, with a loyal following who regularly listens to your music so you rack up lots of streams. Simple math: 1,000 streams, $3.30. 1,000,000 streams, $3,300.
The U.S.'s largest retailers of cd's, places like Target, will soon no longer carry CD's. Most newer cars don't have cd players. Most newer computers as well. Most people don't buy CD's. Look at the charts. Many significant sized record companies don't make CD's at all or only make very small runs. This person is the CEO of Discmakers . Unfortunately for him the down turn in his business is dramatic. While many streaming companies are Pirate lite operations paying out negligible amounts. Some like Apple are significant in size and are more reasonable in pay out.
Apple's payout is not reasonable.. none of them are, but it's funny the services that care about audio quality and artists such as Qobuz and Tidal are the ones that payout the most, but still pathetic rates for smaller artists. I can see why plenty of artists are anti-streaming, and I as a consumer hate streaming as well. I don't want to lease music that can yanked from under my feet at anytime, which happens a lot. I want PHYSICAL ownership, lossless quality, best support paid towards the artist, liner notes and an ACTUAL music collection. Not some collection of files on a hard drive, not some playlist on some streaming service that will inevitably be full of gaping holes as licenses expire or artists yank music. Two biggest crimes against music, streaming and dynamic range compression.
Do this work for Rappers as well because people aren't really buying Rap CD's anymore mainly strictly streaming
The streaming does, of course. And selling discs does too, especially if you perform live. It is estimated that rappers like Drake and Nicki Minaj have left millions of $$ on the table by releasing product just digitally, and not making and distributing CDs and vinyl for every release.
@@tonyvv thanks I was wondering as I know after Big Sean last CD before this one he went all digital as a few more Artist I know personally but I think you got to have the right audience for CDs if your a Rapper 35 and Up
How do you sign up with streaming services?
You need a digital distributor, like CD Baby, Distrokid, or Tunecore.
Is it true the amounts per stream raise the more streams we get?
Does Justin Bieber make more money per stream than the average music-maker?
No, but the labels want to make it so they get paid more than you do.
@@tonyvv What's the correlation?
Right now to my knowledge all subscriber streams pay the same, and all ad supported streams also pay the same, but at a lower rate than subscriber streams. Your average py per stream just depends on the mix of subscriber and ad supported listeners you have.
How much did you say per 1000 streams?
Depends on the platform. With Spotify it's $3.30. Whoop de doo!
It's time for the musicians to fight back and get 100%of their money or it's only gonna get worse this new technology is modern day slavery start selling your music independently in usbs or keep getting chicken feed
$330 per thousand streams*
Wrong. $3.30, not $330.
what happen to napster? i heard they pay you the most
Qobuz pays you the most
I've never streamed music before. Never been to Spotify or Apple music (or whatever their service is called), or listened to music on Amazon or Tidal. I'll watch videos of songs from time to time on RUclips, I don't know if that counts for this example. Wow, I'm starting to sound like an old fart, but that's not where I'm goin' with this comment. What I'm getting at is, I don't know what it costs to listen to music in this way. What does the end user pay per stream? Are they paying, like 99 cents per song? And then the artist receives this tiny pittance of fractions of a penny? If that's what's happening, then I won't be partaking in music streaming. I was a young musician, once.....a really long time ago. I think I'd rather find a job than try to scrape a living from this kinda practice of counting parts of pennies. But, like I said, I don't know how the whole deal works. Enlighten me and I'll thank you for it.
To listen to streaming you pay a fixed subscription rate of approx. $10/month in the US. For that you can listen to unlimited music. You don't pay per stream, but the artist gets paid per stream.
@@tonyvv I see. I didn't think of it that way until after I posted, of course. Thanks, Tony. I appreciate the informative videos you make. Liked the tour video, too. Keep it up and I hope the honest, info filled vids transfer into continued success for you.
napster
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MISLEADING INFO.
0.33 x 1000 = $ 330.00 Dollars.
He stated:
0.33 x 1000 = $ 3.30 Dollars.
He just flat wants every musician to keep ordering CDs from his company.
Just do the math yourself.
Luis, I explained you the math. Your math is wrong, mine is right. Here is the right math: Each stream on average pays 0.33 cents. 0.33 CENTS x 1000 streams = 330 CENTS... NOT 330 D.O.L.L.A.R.S.
.33 of a cent not 33 cents
He messed a extra 0 it’s actually .0038