Useful to have a commentary , when it's an informative one, like this one ! So much better than the stupid loud music accompanying much of YT content 😞
The 323’s were the first electric traction system (designed by Holec) in the uk which could regenerate into a 50 Hz overhead. They also had full brake “cross blending” (designed by me)so that the electro dynamic brake would work almost to a standstill ensuring maximum energy recovery and minimum pollution from brake dust etc. . They were indeed pioneering trains .
My local line :) nice video, thank you, used the line for 18 yearsto travel from lichfield to Birmingham for work, then when i could drive i drove to Four Oaks as at the time there were 6 trains an hour, only went down to 4 after COVID which, coincidentally i was made redundant and now found work for a company in Lichfield and work from home! I vaguely remember as a kid Lichfield Trent Vally's 2nd platform, pre electrification, but i was probably only 7 or 8 at the time
It's a shame West Midlands seem to be going out of their way to destroy the aesthetic charm and look and feel of many of the stations. It's almost as though they keep finding "stuff" to add. Shenstone, thank fully has kept it's original look and feel.
Excellent! I really enjoy your work. The commentary makes your Driver's Eye Views much more enjoyable than those with only subtitles. Keep them coming.
Much of it built when labour costs were, comparatively, dirt cheap, & I guess the material costs were factored in against a projected lifespan of 100+ years. Obviously, varying degrees of maint. & upgrades req'd in the meantime
Another excellent video, especially showcasing the the Northern section, not often seen. Some XC services do use the Camp Hill line to ensure drivers retain route knowledge for diversions. I was on one recently and the train manager helpfully announced we were taking an alternative route in case passengers thought something was wrong.
There are a few booked services over it as well, mostly those from or heading to Manchester that approach New St via the Stour Valley line. Using it avoids the need for a reversal there.
Regarding the section between Longbridge and Kings Norton only being electrified on the Slow Lines - on the first day of electric operations in 1993 it became apparent that this had not been clarified to the Regional Railways planning department, as a Class 310 EMU was allocated to the evening peak hour New Street-Redditch service which uniquely skipped Northfield and Longbridge and was booked via the down Fast. Unfortunately the driver accepted the route and ran off the end of the wire causing some damage and severe delay.
In the early 2000s, there used to be one BR323 service a day (mid/late afternoon) that started at Four Oaks, carried on to Birmingham New Street, but then went off up to Liverpool Lime Street. Presumably a route knowledge operation.
Recorded being the right word - the 323s are also used on Northern services in and around Manchester & their drive train makes that very distinctive sound as they accelerate away from a station! Once the 730s come into squadron service, the remaining 323s will all be moved up north and join their siblings in use on routes such as Manchester Piccadilly - Crewe/Stoke/Hazel Grove/Hadfield, Manchester Airport - Liverpool via Earlestown, Liverpool to Wigan North Western/Preston/Blackpool and Blackpool to Manchester Airport. One other minor point - the South Staffs line from Lichfield to Walsall closed to passengers in 1965, but survived for freight throughout until 1984. One that, in hindsight, perhaps should have been retained as a bypass route for Birmingham and direct access to Bescot yard.
When I worked at Bescot as an Area Freight Assistant, I remember one of the signalmen in Bescot Down Tower, a "Bunny" White, (if my memory is correct), who had once been signalman at Aston North Junction. This was apparently a reporting box, reporting trains to Birmingham Control. He told me that they always took an absolute AGE to answer the phone, so when they did, he would say "I was going to tell you the box had burnt down, but anyway...." Then one day the box did burn down !!
I've travelled along part of this route numerous times when travelling to/from Worcester and yet from a driver's perspective, it's amazing how much I miss as a passenger.
Ah, such memories of a typical dreary, cold day in the grim second city. Travelled the Cross City Line many times (lived in the equally grim Wolverhampton) and my abiding memory is horrible grey weather!
There are TWO cities with cathedrals with two spires- the other is Truro. My ex partner is from Lichfield, and my wife was born in Truro, so I've visited both!
Presume you menat 3 spires :), and Lichfield is one of 3, the 3rd being St Mary's in Edinburgh, there was another, Lincoln however when one of them collapsed it wasn't rebuilt. Lichfield is by far the oldest, the only Medieval one.
Great video but one slight mistake in the commentary . The South staffs line closed South of Brownhills in 1984 and was lifted two years later. 1968 was the end of the passenger service
A minor point - the Camp Line still is used by passenger trains. Some of the Manchester - Bristol trains use it to save reversing at New St. Apparently there is also a train a week which uses the Lifford Curve. This is so drivers know the route in case of diversions. (I need someone to confirm this still happens).
Very interesting video of a route I've not been over south of Lichfield. There are in fact two other cathedrals with three spires in the UK: Truro and the Episcopal Cathedral in Edinburgh.
What a wonderful video and a beautiful line. This cab ride was last done in 1994 I think by RailScene and in 1989 just before the DMU's were replaced. I have both of those Dvd's. Thank you so much for doing this. I just wish West Midlands Rail or whoever is in charge would stop destroying the aesthetic charm of this gorgeous line by adding unnecessary stuff to many of the stations and platforms. It's really spoiling the look of them and making them look too commercial. Thankfully, Shenstone still has kept it's original look and feel.
You should film the Redditch to Barnt Green section and do a re-upload. Do any of the Class 323's still operate, as of the end of August, start of September 2024? You missed Croften Farm station, from your research. 😔 Can see a new station in South Lichfield being opened in the future, with the additional new homes. If the stations at Somerset Road, Croften and Blackwell are re-opened again. Would you come back and film an update haha 😀
I might be a bit biased as it passes through the area I went to University, but one route I'd request is Manchester Airport to Blackpool North via Bolton and Preston. It's a route with much variety and interesting recent history, such as Farnworth tunnel, which needed to be extensively realigned and rebuilt to allow for the subsequent electrification. During the works, the sandy soil the tunnel was built in collapsed, significantly delaying the works, while the engineers tried to get back on track (no pun intended). The route was finally energised in 2018 with electric services, provided by Ex-Thameslink Class 319's starting in early 2019
This was my local line when I was a student at Birmingham, and later a working commuter from Selly Oak, long ago when the electrification and 323s were fresh and new. It was nice to see it from a different angle, even if the driver only gets to see the QEH tower and doesn't get the view of Old Joe that passengers get looking out on the university side. Nice to see the new University station, too. It's clearly a big expansion from the original 70s building. I think personally I prefer a cab-view video with just the sounds of the cab, though I did listen to the commentary. I can tell you that the auto-generated subtitles are (as usual) entertainingly wrong in places ("Reddit" for the other southern terminus), though when they describe the sound of a 323 pulling away as "[Music]", I can't disagree.
Fantastic video! What's the double beeping that can be heard at various points, such as 4:58? Reminds me of ETCS movement authority changes, but obviously isn't!
It is the GSMR trying to regain connection - The connection has been patchy in the Barnt Green - Longbridge area for a while now due to a GSMR mast catching fire and awaiting repair.
The class 323 should be switched to the 730 from spring so will be interesting considering the new 730's have had breakdowns on the Wolverhampton line.
Hmm, never realised the platform numbers keep changing back and forth - isn't it supposed to be that 1 is for the line towards the terminus and 2 for that going away?
Northern has also acquired trains from East Midlands Railway (Class 156s). The Class 730 are 5 Coaches, aren't they? They'll not run double units like the 323s?
I think it varies for the different regions getting them. The 730's for the West Midlands are 3-coach units and can be doubled up, similarly to the 323's. Some of them are already in service on the Wolverhampton to Walsall line
Thanks for Uploading this Video. This is My Local Line as I Live in King's Norton. It is good to Hear some of the Lines History. I Play on this Line on my Xbox on Train Sim World 4 (Birmingham Line) but its good to watch the Real Drivers Eye View. Again, Thanks For Uploading this Video.
Thanks for this well informed video. Quick question … when a banking engine is needed on the Lickey, does the goods train bring it along already attached at the rear or does a banking engine live at the bottom of the hill waiting to be useful?
There are sidings at Bromsgrove - the banker waits there. It detaches at Blackwell. The crossover can be used the send it back to Bromsgrove! Until the 1990s the banker was stationed at Bromsgrove but now it is sent on demand! Until the 1990s a passenger train was still banked. Can’t remember the exact details or dates. I believe it was a sleeper train. I am a bit vague and some details might not be 100%. Perhaps someone else can fill in the details!
@@sr6424 Thank you very much for your helpful answer. One more question (sorry!) …. presumably the banker will have a separate driver; how will the two drivers coordinate their pulling and pushing or is it the case that once the banker driver has attached the banker, (s)he then hands over all control to the driver at the front?
@@sr6424 In the late 1970s I travelled on a sleeping car train from Bristol to Edinburgh/Glasgow with about 13 on. It used a bank engine up the Lickey from Bromsgrove. It then reversed at New St. and electric to Carstairs, where it split into two portions, one on to Glasgow Central, the other (which reversed) to Edinburgh Waverley.
You said that he west midland railway went to cardiff they only go to Worcester and hereford its xc that go to cardiff from birmingham they come from Nottingham
The contrast between the electrification systems is quite jarring. The Bromsgrove section is a rather nasty and ugly hodgepodge of the totally different Series.1 and 2 equipment, whereas the Mk3 (including the headspans) and Mk1 Equipment being more consistent and compact. On one extremes, you have got what the engineering team ones in terms of overengineering and redundancy, and the accountant's approach for as minimum as possible. Network Rail IMHO made the grave mistake with going with the former, making Electrification cumbersome and expensive, where as other countries like New Zealand and the USA continue to use BR Mk3 OHLE and derived solutions from Balfour Beatty for their electrification programmes with few issues. It's a farce.
From a functionality point of view, New St. sucks, now, compared to pre-2010. I was taking my pushbike to & from Wales, via New St, and you have to allow a lot more time for platform changes - all that Blue Zone/red Zone/Green Zone crap, introduced no doubt to cut down on fare evasion, & making the laden-down passenger's experience a lot worse. What should have been a 4 minute change became 15 minutes. Maybe 5 minutes of that was down to my unfamiliarity, but there's just far too much non-platform-level clutter, designed to take you through/near the retail opportunities for overpriced rubbish. Hope the £500 million cost wasn't all out of the public purse. It means you have to allow more time for changes, & higher risk of missed connections.
Use the exits at the "a" end of the platforms. It's signposted on the platforms to do that if you are changing platforms.They take you straight across to the other platforms - no need to go near the main concourse or through any gates. Very quick.
@@daffyduk77 Doh - Sorry - brain fade ! 😳 It's the exits at the "b" end , NOT "a" !!! There are some signs for it but probably not enough, and in an unfamiliar place it's easy just not to notice them anyway. There are lifts down there if you don't want to use escalators.
It's good to have a commentary rather than just a cab view. Thank you.
Useful to have a commentary , when it's an informative one, like this one ! So much better than the stupid loud music accompanying much of YT content 😞
@@daffyduk77 I agree 100%. I never return or subscribe to videos like that. Sadly, it is becoming the standard these days.
The 323’s were the first electric traction system (designed by Holec) in the uk which could regenerate into a 50 Hz overhead. They also had full brake “cross blending” (designed by me)so that the electro dynamic brake would work almost to a standstill ensuring maximum energy recovery and minimum pollution from brake dust etc. . They were indeed pioneering trains .
A great presentation offering a large amount of interesting information. Thank you
My local line :) nice video, thank you, used the line for 18 yearsto travel from lichfield to Birmingham for work, then when i could drive i drove to Four Oaks as at the time there were 6 trains an hour, only went down to 4 after COVID which, coincidentally i was made redundant and now found work for a company in Lichfield and work from home!
I vaguely remember as a kid Lichfield Trent Vally's 2nd platform, pre electrification, but i was probably only 7 or 8 at the time
It's a shame West Midlands seem to be going out of their way to destroy the aesthetic charm and look and feel of many of the stations. It's almost as though they keep finding "stuff" to add. Shenstone, thank fully has kept it's original look and feel.
Excellent! I really enjoy your work. The commentary makes your Driver's Eye Views much more enjoyable than those with only subtitles. Keep them coming.
Thye sheer scale and ingenuity of the engineering works remain breathtaking. Sp much brickwork and detailing!
Much of it built when labour costs were, comparatively, dirt cheap, & I guess the material costs were factored in against a projected lifespan of 100+ years. Obviously, varying degrees of maint. & upgrades req'd in the meantime
Another excellent video, especially showcasing the the Northern section, not often seen. Some XC services do use the Camp Hill line to ensure drivers retain route knowledge for diversions. I was on one recently and the train manager helpfully announced we were taking an alternative route in case passengers thought something was wrong.
There are a few booked services over it as well, mostly those from or heading to Manchester that approach New St via the Stour Valley line. Using it avoids the need for a reversal there.
Excellent video. A fine tribute to the 323s and I hope they provide sterling service with Northern.
Excellent production and informative commentary
Regarding the section between Longbridge and Kings Norton only being electrified on the Slow Lines - on the first day of electric operations in 1993 it became apparent that this had not been clarified to the Regional Railways planning department, as a Class 310 EMU was allocated to the evening peak hour New Street-Redditch service which uniquely skipped Northfield and Longbridge and was booked via the down Fast. Unfortunately the driver accepted the route and ran off the end of the wire causing some damage and severe delay.
Looking forward to seeing how the 730s cope with the gradient from Bromsgrove. Great video 👍
In the early 2000s, there used to be one BR323 service a day (mid/late afternoon) that started at Four Oaks, carried on to Birmingham New Street, but then went off up to Liverpool Lime Street. Presumably a route knowledge operation.
Recorded being the right word - the 323s are also used on Northern services in and around Manchester & their drive train makes that very distinctive sound as they accelerate away from a station! Once the 730s come into squadron service, the remaining 323s will all be moved up north and join their siblings in use on routes such as Manchester Piccadilly - Crewe/Stoke/Hazel Grove/Hadfield, Manchester Airport - Liverpool via Earlestown, Liverpool to Wigan North Western/Preston/Blackpool and Blackpool to Manchester Airport. One other minor point - the South Staffs line from Lichfield to Walsall closed to passengers in 1965, but survived for freight throughout until 1984. One that, in hindsight, perhaps should have been retained as a bypass route for Birmingham and direct access to Bescot yard.
Always enjoy your videos, really like commentary with useful info.
Very good video thankyou
Thank you so much for producing this most enjoyable video. It brings back lots of memories.
When I worked at Bescot as an Area Freight Assistant, I remember one of the signalmen in Bescot Down Tower, a "Bunny" White, (if my memory is correct), who had once been signalman at Aston North Junction. This was apparently a reporting box, reporting trains to Birmingham Control. He told me that they always took an absolute AGE to answer the phone, so when they did, he would say "I was going to tell you the box had burnt down, but anyway...." Then one day the box did burn down !!
I've travelled along part of this route numerous times when travelling to/from Worcester and yet from a driver's perspective, it's amazing how much I miss as a passenger.
I'm only 13 minutes in, but I have to say that's quite a mob of passengers picked up so far. Must be a popular line.
Ah, such memories of a typical dreary, cold day in the grim second city. Travelled the Cross City Line many times (lived in the equally grim Wolverhampton) and my abiding memory is horrible grey weather!
So much work and research goes into making these high class videos. Thank you.
This is a great video, very informative too.
Thanks for doing these drivers eye views. Just as good as a Video125 production and unlike them, you're not charging a small fortune to watch them.
A really interesting video showing how dense the railway network is in and around Birmingham
As ever well researched and very interesting.
I used to travel on the Cross City line a lot when I use to travel to Birmingham and Lichfield.
Brilliant (as always) Paul, really enjoyed this . Keep up the fantastic work 🚂😊
Thanks Paul and Team, great video!
Well researched and present cab ride. Many thanks, Paul and team.
I remember getting on at erdington, many years ago.
Beautiful Video - Thanks!
There are TWO cities with cathedrals with two spires- the other is Truro. My ex partner is from Lichfield, and my wife was born in Truro, so I've visited both!
Presume you menat 3 spires :), and Lichfield is one of 3, the 3rd being St Mary's in Edinburgh, there was another, Lincoln however when one of them collapsed it wasn't rebuilt.
Lichfield is by far the oldest, the only Medieval one.
Great video but one slight mistake in the commentary . The South staffs line closed South of Brownhills in 1984 and was lifted two years later. 1968 was the end of the passenger service
Driven this more than a few times in Train Sim World. Can’t wait to watch the real thing!
A minor point - the Camp Line still is used by passenger trains. Some of the Manchester - Bristol trains use it to save reversing at New St. Apparently there is also a train a week which uses the Lifford Curve. This is so drivers know the route in case of diversions. (I need someone to confirm this still happens).
Very interesting video of a route I've not been over south of Lichfield. There are in fact two other cathedrals with three spires in the UK: Truro and the Episcopal Cathedral in Edinburgh.
Blimey! Last time I travelled that line it was cronky old DMUs and the service ended at City
The best days!!
What a wonderful video and a beautiful line. This cab ride was last done in 1994 I think by RailScene and in 1989 just before the DMU's were replaced. I have both of those Dvd's. Thank you so much for doing this. I just wish West Midlands Rail or whoever is in charge would stop destroying the aesthetic charm of this gorgeous line by adding unnecessary stuff to many of the stations and platforms. It's really spoiling the look of them and making them look too commercial. Thankfully, Shenstone still has kept it's original look and feel.
CHEERS PAUL I ENJOYED THAT
You should film the Redditch to Barnt Green section and do a re-upload. Do any of the Class 323's still operate, as of the end of August, start of September 2024?
You missed Croften Farm station, from your research. 😔
Can see a new station in South Lichfield being opened in the future, with the additional new homes.
If the stations at Somerset Road, Croften and Blackwell are re-opened again. Would you come back and film an update haha 😀
I might be a bit biased as it passes through the area I went to University, but one route I'd request is Manchester Airport to Blackpool North via Bolton and Preston. It's a route with much variety and interesting recent history, such as Farnworth tunnel, which needed to be extensively realigned and rebuilt to allow for the subsequent electrification. During the works, the sandy soil the tunnel was built in collapsed, significantly delaying the works, while the engineers tried to get back on track (no pun intended). The route was finally energised in 2018 with electric services, provided by Ex-Thameslink Class 319's starting in early 2019
I've always found the Cross City line a similar concept to the Elizabeth Line, by being a hybrid of commuter and suburban services.
Very nice, like ...
This was my local line when I was a student at Birmingham, and later a working commuter from Selly Oak, long ago when the electrification and 323s were fresh and new. It was nice to see it from a different angle, even if the driver only gets to see the QEH tower and doesn't get the view of Old Joe that passengers get looking out on the university side. Nice to see the new University station, too. It's clearly a big expansion from the original 70s building.
I think personally I prefer a cab-view video with just the sounds of the cab, though I did listen to the commentary. I can tell you that the auto-generated subtitles are (as usual) entertainingly wrong in places ("Reddit" for the other southern terminus), though when they describe the sound of a 323 pulling away as "[Music]", I can't disagree.
12:56 - not entirely true. Some cross country services between Manchester and Bristol use it to prevent having to switch ends at new street.
When I was at university, these trains were green/yellow and they were called Central trains. How things change.
Have you thought of doing a drivers eye view from London Padding to Plymouth or vice verse
Good video, enjoyed it
That train has weird take off noise. Never heard a EMU sound like that.
Thanks for the trip. Greetings from Sydney. 🏳🌈
stepper motors!
I'll quite miss the 323's for sure! Same with the 350's eventually when the 370's replace those
Fantastic video! What's the double beeping that can be heard at various points, such as 4:58? Reminds me of ETCS movement authority changes, but obviously isn't!
It is the GSMR trying to regain connection - The connection has been patchy in the Barnt Green - Longbridge area for a while now due to a GSMR mast catching fire and awaiting repair.
@@hunsletmidland Ah, interesting! Thanks :)
The class 323 should be switched to the 730 from spring so will be interesting considering the new 730's have had breakdowns on the Wolverhampton line.
Hmm, never realised the platform numbers keep changing back and forth - isn't it supposed to be that 1 is for the line towards the terminus and 2 for that going away?
Did not the line to Southminster predate your comment about electrification of Branch lines at Barnt Green?
Northern has also acquired trains from East Midlands Railway (Class 156s). The Class 730 are 5 Coaches, aren't they? They'll not run double units like the 323s?
I think it varies for the different regions getting them. The 730's for the West Midlands are 3-coach units and can be doubled up, similarly to the 323's. Some of them are already in service on the Wolverhampton to Walsall line
Thanks for Uploading this Video. This is My Local Line as I Live in King's Norton. It is good to Hear some of the Lines History. I Play on this Line on my Xbox on Train Sim World 4 (Birmingham Line) but its good to watch the Real Drivers Eye View. Again, Thanks For Uploading this Video.
What's the correct acceleration through the notches for the 323?
Words are good.
Thanks for this well informed video. Quick question … when a banking engine is needed on the Lickey, does the goods train bring it along already attached at the rear or does a banking engine live at the bottom of the hill waiting to be useful?
There are sidings at Bromsgrove - the banker waits there. It detaches at Blackwell. The crossover can be used the send it back to Bromsgrove! Until the 1990s the banker was stationed at Bromsgrove but now it is sent on demand! Until the 1990s a passenger train was still banked. Can’t remember the exact details or dates. I believe it was a sleeper train. I am a bit vague and some details might not be 100%. Perhaps someone else can fill in the details!
@@sr6424 Thank you very much for your helpful answer. One more question (sorry!) …. presumably the banker will have a separate driver; how will the two drivers coordinate their pulling and pushing or is it the case that once the banker driver has attached the banker, (s)he then hands over all control to the driver at the front?
@@paulrandall9705 I don’t know how that works.
@@sr6424 thank you ladies / gentlemen for your helpful comments. Over and out. For now!
@@sr6424 In the late 1970s I travelled on a sleeping car train from Bristol to Edinburgh/Glasgow with about 13 on. It used a bank engine up the Lickey from Bromsgrove. It then reversed at New St. and electric to Carstairs, where it split into two portions, one on to Glasgow Central, the other (which reversed) to Edinburgh Waverley.
I still travel on the cross city line but unfortunately the 730s are taking over
Does you just whack it in notch 4 straight away? 🤯🤣
You said that he west midland railway went to cardiff they only go to Worcester and hereford its xc that go to cardiff from birmingham they come from Nottingham
Are the class 323 units part of the Networker family as they sound the same as the southeastern 465/ units
Something about these West Midlands trains looks so... naff
Not a word about Erdington. I know it's a boring place, I was born and raised there. But perhaps a word just to be fair?
Interestng route - not an area I'm familiar with.
West Midlands Railway Class 323
bad bot
The contrast between the electrification systems is quite jarring. The Bromsgrove section is a rather nasty and ugly hodgepodge of the totally different Series.1 and 2 equipment, whereas the Mk3 (including the headspans) and Mk1 Equipment being more consistent and compact. On one extremes, you have got what the engineering team ones in terms of overengineering and redundancy, and the accountant's approach for as minimum as possible. Network Rail IMHO made the grave mistake with going with the former, making Electrification cumbersome and expensive, where as other countries like New Zealand and the USA continue to use BR Mk3 OHLE and derived solutions from Balfour Beatty for their electrification programmes with few issues. It's a farce.
From a functionality point of view, New St. sucks, now, compared to pre-2010. I was taking my pushbike to & from Wales, via New St, and you have to allow a lot more time for platform changes - all that Blue Zone/red Zone/Green Zone crap, introduced no doubt to cut down on fare evasion, & making the laden-down passenger's experience a lot worse. What should have been a 4 minute change became 15 minutes. Maybe 5 minutes of that was down to my unfamiliarity, but there's just far too much non-platform-level clutter, designed to take you through/near the retail opportunities for overpriced rubbish. Hope the £500 million cost wasn't all out of the public purse. It means you have to allow more time for changes, & higher risk of missed connections.
Use the exits at the "a" end of the platforms. It's signposted on the platforms to do that if you are changing platforms.They take you straight across to the other platforms - no need to go near the main concourse or through any gates. Very quick.
@@mehere779 Thanks for that, wish I'd known it & will give it a try
@@daffyduk77 Doh - Sorry - brain fade ! 😳
It's the exits at the "b" end , NOT "a" !!!
There are some signs for it but probably not enough, and in an unfamiliar place it's easy just not to notice them anyway. There are lifts down there if you don't want to use escalators.
@@mehere779 thx