As a self described "Car Guy" I have to say that at first, I wasn't surprised that it COULD be a software error.... At the end though, it makes absolute sense that this would be human error during a panicked situation. I really appreciate these podcasts as they are incredibly entertaining while still being thought provoking, Please keep them coming =)
I'm most definitely NOT a car guy - in fact by now I'm a "little old lady" - well, not so little. But I'm also a violinist and I've always been very aware that driving and playing an instrument require the same sort of training. I've always been scared driving an unfamiliar vehicle precisely because I don't yet have the physical "dance" ingrained to know how to deal with it. It takes too much thought, the kind of thought that takes me too long to complete within the time required in driving, which by definition, usually happens pretty quickly. And I second all the thanks people have expressed for these interesting podcasts. Very thought provoking and well put together.
This reminds me of an incident that nearly cost me my job at a stamping plant. I was running a orog-die on a press that had only a 9 once open height. The steel, which was about 5/8 inch thick, was fed in by a roller which didn't finish advancing it until the press was almost closed. And this die had over a dozen stations.I was afraid of it. The activating buttons had two additional buttons. One was a yellow top stop button, which would let the press make a hit, then stop it fully open. The other button was a red emergency stop button, which would stop the press immediately. The two buttons were right next to each other on the button bar. I was running the press when suddenly I saw the strip jamb, so it couldn't advance all the way. I hit what I thought was the emergency stop button. To my horror, the press continued to close, then stop all the way open, to reveal the destroyed die. I figure then, that if I was lucky enough to not get fired on the spot, I would probably never be allowed to run a prog-die again. In the forman's office, my foreman was there. So too was the assistant plant manager and the entire night shift tool room guys. My forman asked me what happened. I told him that I hit the top-stop button rather than the emergency stop button. I also said that, if I ever ran that job again, I would put the top-stop button near my left hand, and the emergency stop button by my right hand. I was put on cleanup for the rest of the shift. The next day, when I look at the line up, I couldn't believe my eyes. I was put on that very same job. They had a spare die.
I advise everyone who listened to this episode to read the article called "The Tipping Point" from Safety Research & Strategies which seems to debunk this entire episode. It's very long and thorough. After reading that I'm questioning everything Gladwell has preached in any of these episodes. He's a storyteller, NOT a journalist seeking the truth. I can't link the article here, since it seems RUclips removes this comment if I do. But please go read it and get back to me with thoughts. Apparently Safety Research & Strategies reached out to Gladwell asking about how he came to the conclusions that he did, without getting a reply back. I quote "We reached out to Gladwell via email to ask him some questions about the reporting process that led to his firm conclusions in contradiction to the factual record. We received no response.".
I can’t believe you didn’t mention the strikingly similar panic in the 80s. It cost Audi a whole lot more than some cash. It basically cost them the entire US market. And it was likewise nothing wrong with the cars.
Braking the car is one option. Throwing the car into neutral is another. The engine may rev so high it blows but that is better than crashing. Driving in winter I often throw the car into neutral as I am stopping on snow/ice.
It's what I learned in school bus driver school. Stop the forward motion of the vehicle. Throw it into neutral. Better a lost vehicle than a lost life.
I would prefer Mr Gladwell to know that his voice (the tone, cadence, and seeming humility) are ill-suited for this. I’d much rather hear him speak inspiring words than make me feel outraged. He could be David Attenborough or Carl Sagan. He is that smart and that skilled as a communicator. I appreciate the fact that we should be educated but it feels to me that Mr. Gladwell’s strength is his calm and reflective tone. I sincerely don’t wish to be saddened by Mr. Gladwell. I admire him.
I had a 75 chevy truck, 350 V8, 3 speed trans. Loved that truck. After driving almost 1000 miles the truck suddenly started accelerating all by it's self. Having a clutch all I had to do was step on it (the clutch) and the motor would race. I turned off the motor and popped the hood to find a spring on the carb had broke. The truck at this time was about 15 year old with a lot of miles on her. The odometer stopped working around 150,000. Not the same as this situation but still. Why is there no emergency kill switch on all cars?
This happened to me. I tromped on the gas, believing it was the brake. I pressed harder when I didn't stop. I was lucky. I went off the road into a wide open space. I had time to figure out that maybe I missed the pedal. I had. I corrected and stopped safely. That was over 40 years ago, and I remember it clearly.
Me too! In my case, I was backing up just a few feet. Tapped the accelerator. Oops, too much, shifted to the brake, oops, accelrator! Floored it. In some ways, this was the luckiest moment in my life since nobody was hurt. Several cars, a building and a gas meter were damaged.
You didn’t explain the conclusion of the excellent Los Angeles Times article that you referenced. You didn’t explain if the software COULD have physically caused a full trotted situation or that is impossible. You didn’t explain the reason for the 7 Toyota recalls or the reason for the $1.2 billion fine that Toyota paid. You didn’t explain the reason for the $1.1 billion class action lawsuit or why they settled 400 lawsuits and why Eric Holder would say Toyota showed a blatant disregard for safety. You just say they were all wrong and all the deaths and crashes were due to driver error.
Ok I’ll try to comment a third time since youtube removes my comments. I read an article from Safety Research & Strategies called ”The Tipping Point” which debunks this entire episode. Have you read it?
I'm familiar with this problem, and admit the two times I did this were my fault, but I considered one more thing. I checked the distance between the accelerator and brake pedals and found they were closer together than most domestic autos I had driven. Not a cause, the driver is ultimately responsible for operation, but perhaps a contributing factor. Also, why did no-one suggest using the parking brake?
I can see someone accidentally accelerating for a second, but we’ve all done that and you instinctively move your foot to the left. He uses the same pedal in the same place and doesn’t realize? His job was being in a car. Come on, Malcolm… The assertion that these people are full force on the accelerator thinking it’s the brake is preposterous. It’s much more like they completely panicked and never even thought about the brakes. I actually had this happen and for a second I literally lifted both my feet off the floor of the car, like the pedals were red hot irons. Took me a second to snap to.
Also, this would never happen if people were taught to brake with their left foot. Unless you need to operate a clutch, it should be left foot on the brake, right foot on the gas. (Just don't ride the brake.)
I'm not worried about unexpected acceleration. What I hate is the unexpected stopping feature in my vehicle (which happens to be a Toyota). The first time it happened it was in a parking lot, and it sensed my lights reflecting in a window as an oncoming car and halted. I had to turn off my lights to move forward. It does it too, when I try to pull up to my house staircase. It is such a pain to turn it off, and I think I finally got it. I hate this feature. In an Alaska winter, an unexpected halt like that will just lead to bad skidding.
Amen! I rented a Nissan that wouldn’t let me back out of my driveway because it sensed the mailbox and stopped! There was a good 6 inches between mailbox and side of car - no problem for a car guy.
As a shorter older person I have had mild encounters with this problem in my vw. Time to replace my sliding foot mat which shifts everytime I enter the car by putting my foot on it😏
The time has come to stop teaching people to use their right foot for both the brake and the gas . This idea came from the days when cars had clutches. Most cars today don't have clutches because they have automatic shifts. So people should learn to use the left foot on the brake and the right foot on the gas. Critics of this idea always claim drivers will get confused. As your report reveals, they already get confused. I argue that left-foot brake reduces the chances of confusion because each foot has one job and only one job. 37:40
@@99guspuppet8Explain why that's better. The comment you replied to provides logic and evidence as to why one-foot-per-pedal is safer and smarter, and you've denied it without providing any superior logic or counter-evidence. You've made a baseless assertion, which is worthless.
Maybe throttle control is electronic with software involved; perhaps the pedal has an encoder which sends a signal representing the pedal depression angle to a microprocessor which considers other factors like rpms and temperature and then tells the fuel injectors how much gas to squirt. But brakes are still hydraulic and ain’t no way any software can affect them!
As a self described "Car Guy" I have to say that at first, I wasn't surprised that it COULD be a software error.... At the end though, it makes absolute sense that this would be human error during a panicked situation.
I really appreciate these podcasts as they are incredibly entertaining while still being thought provoking, Please keep them coming =)
I'm most definitely NOT a car guy - in fact by now I'm a "little old lady" - well, not so little. But I'm also a violinist and I've always been very aware that driving and playing an instrument require the same sort of training. I've always been scared driving an unfamiliar vehicle precisely because I don't yet have the physical "dance" ingrained to know how to deal with it. It takes too much thought, the kind of thought that takes me too long to complete within the time required in driving, which by definition, usually happens pretty quickly.
And I second all the thanks people have expressed for these interesting podcasts. Very thought provoking and well put together.
This reminds me of an incident that nearly cost me my job at a stamping plant. I was running a orog-die on a press that had only a 9 once open height.
The steel, which was about 5/8 inch thick, was fed in by a roller which didn't finish advancing it until the press was almost closed. And this die had over a dozen stations.I was afraid of it.
The activating buttons had two additional buttons. One was a yellow top stop button, which would let the press make a hit, then stop it fully open. The other button was a red emergency stop button, which would stop the press immediately. The two buttons were right next to each other on the button bar.
I was running the press when suddenly I saw the strip jamb, so it couldn't advance all the way.
I hit what I thought was the emergency stop button. To my horror, the press continued to close, then stop all the way open, to reveal the destroyed die.
I figure then, that if I was lucky enough to not get fired on the spot, I would probably never be allowed to run a prog-die again.
In the forman's office, my foreman was there. So too was the assistant plant manager and the entire night shift tool room guys.
My forman asked me what happened.
I told him that I hit the top-stop button rather than the emergency stop button.
I also said that, if I ever ran that job again, I would put the top-stop button near my left hand, and the emergency stop button by my right hand.
I was put on cleanup for the rest of the shift.
The next day, when I look at the line up, I couldn't believe my eyes. I was put on that very same job. They had a spare die.
I advise everyone who listened to this episode to read the article called "The Tipping Point" from Safety Research & Strategies which seems to debunk this entire episode. It's very long and thorough. After reading that I'm questioning everything Gladwell has preached in any of these episodes. He's a storyteller, NOT a journalist seeking the truth. I can't link the article here, since it seems RUclips removes this comment if I do. But please go read it and get back to me with thoughts. Apparently Safety Research & Strategies reached out to Gladwell asking about how he came to the conclusions that he did, without getting a reply back. I quote "We reached out to Gladwell via email to ask him some questions about the reporting process that led to his firm conclusions in contradiction to the factual record. We received no response.".
And I always wondered why a highway patrolman who’s had extensive training, wouldn’t simply put it in neutral.
I can’t believe you didn’t mention the strikingly similar panic in the 80s. It cost Audi a whole lot more than some cash. It basically cost them the entire US market. And it was likewise nothing wrong with the cars.
Thx again Malcom
Thank you. I never believed it for a moment.
Outstanding as usual Malcolm ❤
Braking the car is one option. Throwing the car into neutral is another. The engine may rev so high it blows but that is better than crashing. Driving in winter I often throw the car into neutral as I am stopping on snow/ice.
It's what I learned in school bus driver school. Stop the forward motion of the vehicle. Throw it into neutral. Better a lost vehicle than a lost life.
Neutral is the best way to get down our mountain roads in winter.
I would prefer Mr Gladwell to know that his voice (the tone, cadence, and seeming humility) are ill-suited for this. I’d much rather hear him speak inspiring words than make me feel outraged.
He could be David Attenborough or Carl Sagan.
He is that smart and that skilled as a communicator.
I appreciate the fact that we should be educated but it feels to me that Mr. Gladwell’s strength is his calm and reflective tone.
I sincerely don’t wish to be saddened by Mr. Gladwell. I admire him.
So many podcast in a day, so little time.
When you depress the brakes on modern cars the the accelerator is cut off and does not actually work
I had a 75 chevy truck, 350 V8, 3 speed trans. Loved that truck. After driving almost 1000 miles the truck suddenly started accelerating all by it's self. Having a clutch all I had to do was step on it (the clutch) and the motor would race. I turned off the motor and popped the hood to find a spring on the carb had broke. The truck at this time was about 15 year old with a lot of miles on her. The odometer stopped working around 150,000. Not the same as this situation but still. Why is there no emergency kill switch on all cars?
This happened to me. I tromped on the gas, believing it was the brake. I pressed harder when I didn't stop. I was lucky. I went off the road into a wide open space. I had time to figure out that maybe I missed the pedal. I had. I corrected and stopped safely. That was over 40 years ago, and I remember it clearly.
Me too! In my case, I was backing up just a few feet. Tapped the accelerator. Oops, too much, shifted to the brake, oops, accelrator! Floored it. In some ways, this was the luckiest moment in my life since nobody was hurt. Several cars, a building and a gas meter were damaged.
You didn’t explain the conclusion of the excellent Los Angeles Times article that you referenced. You didn’t explain if the software COULD have physically caused a full trotted situation or that is impossible. You didn’t explain the reason for the 7 Toyota recalls or the reason for the $1.2 billion fine that Toyota paid. You didn’t explain the reason for the $1.1 billion class action lawsuit or why they settled 400 lawsuits and why Eric Holder would say Toyota showed a blatant disregard for safety. You just say they were all wrong and all the deaths and crashes were due to driver error.
Ok I’ll try to comment a third time since youtube removes my comments.
I read an article from Safety Research & Strategies called ”The Tipping Point” which debunks this entire episode. Have you read it?
I'm familiar with this problem, and admit the two times I did this were my fault, but I considered one more thing. I checked the distance between the accelerator and brake pedals and found they were closer together than most domestic autos I had driven. Not a cause, the driver is ultimately responsible for operation, but perhaps a contributing factor. Also, why did no-one suggest using the parking brake?
I’ve often wondered why people don’t use the emergency brake. Isn’t that why it’s there?
I can see someone accidentally accelerating for a second, but we’ve all done that and you instinctively move your foot to the left. He uses the same pedal in the same place and doesn’t realize? His job was being in a car. Come on, Malcolm…
The assertion that these people are full force on the accelerator thinking it’s the brake is preposterous. It’s much more like they completely panicked and never even thought about the brakes.
I actually had this happen and for a second I literally lifted both my feet off the floor of the car, like the pedals were red hot irons. Took me a second to snap to.
A lot of folks owe Toyota and huge amount of money and an apology.
A Toyota insider proved they hid a software problem, and they had a coverup about the software issue.
I had this happen and drove the car home reverse accelerating by letting off the brake. At home we fixed the throttle in the garage. MERCURY vehicle
Also, this would never happen if people were taught to brake with their left foot. Unless you need to operate a clutch, it should be left foot on the brake, right foot on the gas. (Just don't ride the brake.)
I'm not worried about unexpected acceleration. What I hate is the unexpected stopping feature in my vehicle (which happens to be a Toyota). The first time it happened it was in a parking lot, and it sensed my lights reflecting in a window as an oncoming car and halted. I had to turn off my lights to move forward. It does it too, when I try to pull up to my house staircase. It is such a pain to turn it off, and I think I finally got it. I hate this feature. In an Alaska winter, an unexpected halt like that will just lead to bad skidding.
Amen! I rented a Nissan that wouldn’t let me back out of my driveway because it sensed the mailbox and stopped! There was a good 6 inches between mailbox and side of car - no problem for a car guy.
As a shorter older person I have had mild encounters with this problem in my vw. Time to replace my sliding foot mat which shifts everytime I enter the car by putting my foot on it😏
The time has come to stop teaching people to use their right foot for both the brake and the gas . This idea came from the days when cars had clutches. Most cars today don't have clutches because they have automatic shifts. So people should learn to use the left foot on the brake and the right foot on the gas. Critics of this idea always claim drivers will get confused. As your report reveals, they already get confused. I argue that left-foot brake reduces the chances of confusion because each foot has one job and only one job. 37:40
i disagree best to use right foot for both brake and accelerator
@@99guspuppet8Explain why that's better. The comment you replied to provides logic and evidence as to why one-foot-per-pedal is safer and smarter, and you've denied it without providing any superior logic or counter-evidence. You've made a baseless assertion, which is worthless.
Maybe throttle control is electronic with software involved; perhaps the pedal has an encoder which sends a signal representing the pedal depression angle to a microprocessor which considers other factors like rpms and temperature and then tells the fuel injectors how much gas to squirt. But brakes are still hydraulic and ain’t no way any software can affect them!
Cars don't have a mind of their own? Add this to claims that won't age well.
Blame game ...AKA media leftist types in action....I'm looking at you Malcome
Sure pal. You can't even spell his name correctly, and it's right in front of your face. A deep thinker you are not.
Huh?
@@gretahelphrey7842 Go and learn about the world and get back to me 👍
These vehicles could have been disabled if the drivers hadn't panicked!!!
Malcom is a cruelly contemptible varmint and a monstrous heart-sickening plot-less melodrama of uneventful life