Penumbra Phantasm must have Determination, the way it's stuck around despite not properly appearing by itself for so many years. That or it's not actually in THE HOLY and instead th oh whatever
I doubt it. This isn’t consistent at all with how Toby (or other composers) use leitmotifs. The most important identifying feature of the Determination motif isn’t present. This isn’t a leitmotif, it’s just a similar run.
@@ColonThreeClef I doubt that this is determination just because in Fountain, there is no mention of Determination. I don't think it's Determination, I don't think it's Penumbra Phantasm either, none of them were there from the beginning (Fountain) and a last minute decision seems strange to me (the special motif that he commented on the livestream was not even possibly these, but Thr Holy or Nightmare Knight) in the latter I've already said several times that Penumbra Phantasm doesn't make sense here... Oooh! a similar rhythm (it's not) to a song he made 8 years ago... Uhm, I guess it's unlikely that something like that would happen after composing 200 songs!
@@MrMetanarrative Uh it's not just a similar rhythm.. The contour of the second half (the most significant and recognizable section of the leitmotif) is also identical. When you're looking for a leitmotif, identical contour + identical rhythm = high probability of leitmotivic presence. The contour of the beginning of the motif is significantly altered, yes, but that's also composed of just a run of notes, which isn't very recognizable anyhow. What most people are going to pick up on is the rhythm and the relative positions of the first and last notes of the run, and those are the same in both runs. So yeah, THE HOLY definitely has a Penumbra Phantasm motif in it. Rhythm + contour + vaguely similar intervals = leitmotif, and all three of those elements are present. It's not just a similar rhythm.
Penumbra Phantasm must have Determination, the way it's stuck around despite not properly appearing by itself for so many years.
That or it's not actually in THE HOLY and instead th oh whatever
Maybe
I doubt it. This isn’t consistent at all with how Toby (or other composers) use leitmotifs. The most important identifying feature of the Determination motif isn’t present. This isn’t a leitmotif, it’s just a similar run.
@@ColonThreeClef I doubt that this is determination just because in Fountain, there is no mention of Determination.
I don't think it's Determination, I don't think it's Penumbra Phantasm either, none of them were there from the beginning (Fountain) and a last minute decision seems strange to me (the special motif that he commented on the livestream was not even possibly these, but Thr Holy or Nightmare Knight) in the latter I've already said several times that Penumbra Phantasm doesn't make sense here... Oooh! a similar rhythm (it's not) to a song he made 8 years ago... Uhm, I guess it's unlikely that something like that would happen after composing 200 songs!
@@MrMetanarrative Uh it's not just a similar rhythm.. The contour of the second half (the most significant and recognizable section of the leitmotif) is also identical.
When you're looking for a leitmotif, identical contour + identical rhythm = high probability of leitmotivic presence.
The contour of the beginning of the motif is significantly altered, yes, but that's also composed of just a run of notes, which isn't very recognizable anyhow. What most people are going to pick up on is the rhythm and the relative positions of the first and last notes of the run, and those are the same in both runs.
So yeah, THE HOLY definitely has a Penumbra Phantasm motif in it. Rhythm + contour + vaguely similar intervals = leitmotif, and all three of those elements are present. It's not just a similar rhythm.
Penumbra Phantasm in Asgore _??????????? :O:O:OO:O:O:O:OO:OO:O::OOO:O:O:O:
what