Thanks like the idea of a single storage option including asphalt and cement etc in one location going to amend mine accordingly. Your series is the most informative more instructional instead of watching someone just play a game. This game is so addictive I have hardly logged onto my MMORPG addiction for over a week :D
That is true, but a double edged sword...too many workplaces can slow you down, too few are also not always desirable...but you're right utilizing the dirt roads for expanding your construction sites is a good idea.
Nice Video I would happily watch more of this kind of theorycrafting stuff. I think there is some consideration too to how many workers are needed. Very hard to simulate in a test like this, but in a real game there would be busses picking up factory workers too. If your CO picked up less workers but used them more effectively, then more are available to do normal factory work. I think specialized COs can do this, because you can have a road CO with no busses, a "small job" CO for footpaths/conveyors/pipes/wires with mini busses and road cranes, and 1 or more big job COs for buildings with full sized busses and tower cranes. Also one other comment about specialized COs, I think your test had this correct, but make sure you always have enough vehicles to be able to deliver at least 1 truckload of each resource for the building phase so the mechanisms and workers get dispatched asap after only one delivery by the trucks. So at least 2 dumpers if the CO needs to singlehandedly deliver gravel and asphalt, and at least 3 (or 4) open hulls if the CO needs to singlehandedly deliver Steel/Brick/Boards/Prefabs.
Thanks! I'll try to make more:) The worker situation...I *think* in an ideal setup, you have 2 bus stops, 1 for a CO and one for other stuff (or more each), that way your CO can always pickup workers, so I'm not sure I am agreeing with you statement. However, if we are looking at the super early game, where we are really restricted in our workforce it may still matter, but that would be hard to model for a test like this just like you said. Very agreed on you specialized point to have at least 1 vehicle per resource.
for me: i build have construction yards set up like (mind you, using some large capacity workshop offices) a general construction yard of transports like dumpers, open/covered hulls, mixers and road cranes for structures and infrastructure a dedicated machines yard for excavators, tower cranes and large flatbed trucks set to deliver mechanism by truck only and set to deliver only to buildings a dedicated roadworks yard for road buildings with bulldozers, rollers and pavers along open hull trucks for material and the machines and a single covered hull truck and large capacity bus for road building only. also a road crane truck. if funds allow, a fleet of dumptrucks for the gravel and asphalt delivery for roads only so the general yard will have their trucks focus on buildings only since long asphalt road projects can occupy many dumptrucks holding asphalt for a while. and finally a yard near a major bus platform for a fleet of microbuses (like the polish zuk) on all except for roads since the bus dropping off workers at roads during the paving process causes it to stop until unloaded. really it's good to have roadworks yards and structure construction yards be separated as much as possible
This, like all tutorials you make is extremly helpful! Also, thank you for adding context and tid bits to the tutorial. It really helps out to better understand everything!
Not all construction phases require workers...but for the ones that do, the working speed is a multiplier for the worker workday... something like machine speed 30 means 1 worker can produce 30 workdays in a day.
Hey bballjo, great and informative video as usual! However: what about an update of this video? I think many things have been changed by the devs since this experiment was released about two years ago and maybe this impacted those setups? Just an idea/suggestion! Liebe Grüße :)
How the game works now (with the changes on not allowing the tuning of maximum workers), you need to put the buses to another construction office and keep manually assigning and removing constuction from that office. Otherwise the game just keeps pushing workers to construction that does not have resources. Also that way you can stop the buses stopping the asfalt work.
i use the modded XL construction office with 32 vehicles but i think this is generally applicable to vanilla I have a big "general construction" office in each city that has all the vehicles for any job but NO buses, then a separate construction office with JUST buses. I do this because a lot of my construction jobs are in walking range of stations or residential buildings. If a project requires bus transport to get workers there, I assign the buses, but if not, i just have my workers commute to the site using the existing network. this allows me to cut down on traffic and have more construction projects going at once.
yeah, even with the clone tool it was hard work...getting all the vehicles took a long time because i kept missing 1 or 2 ;D Glad you liked it! There will be another one soon!
very good content, thank you for sharing! I've concluded to use a dedicated setup like you showcased, with modded COs in my plays with a setup as follows: 32 space CO with only covered/open hulls for Materials, 8 space for busses only, 16 for cranes assigned to non-roads, 8 or 16 for roads only and if I'm going for heavy industry builds (lots of conveyors/factories) I'll add a specialized CO, but that's typically only one in the big industrial zone complex. As for your next vid, I'd recommend you look into how you'd build a redundant power supply network with no single point of failure that covers your whole republic while able to import/export power from the border. hint: It's gonna be quite a maze, even if you use mods, as you're limited to max 19MW per junction :)
That is a nice idea, but there is a hard limit to the power network of 17 nodes (that's the last number I heard), past that and no more power flows, so you can't really make 1 large interconnected network, but you should make several smaller networks, with multiple sources...I'll see if I can dig up the real number and maybe run some tests on this, as it was mostly from hear say...
@@bballjo hmm haven't had this limitation yet in my cosmonaut playthrough, but the limit of 18mw is real pain. I'll post something on reddit once I reach 100k pop or the year 2021, whatever comes first - I know you lurk there so we'll continue that discussion there :p currently I'm in 1987 at close to 30k pop with 3 power plants serving 3 districts, so far so good :) Just think that you can cut almost any wire and power does not interrupt, would make for a nice tutorial :D
I would love that ability. I *think if you split the map into something like a dice #5 pattern, with a power plant on each for (maybe that makes sense, probably doesn't) you could just connect all the space in between with power lines, and maybe for m each power plant the max node number would always be less than 17, at least until the next power plant would fill in the rest :) maybe you can give that a shot?
good insight, thank you for showing it. i like using dedicated to support the general construction with ressources on bigger projects. road construction remains a mixed bag for me, maybe it is the "stuttering" you described, im gonna try specialised for road. for transportable vehicles i also like a dedicated office, too much headache before. ah, one thing to ask, would you play something like factory town? with your skill, it would be a great watch! a mod video would be great too, showing of some of the good conveyor engines, vehicles and useful building.
Thanks! I'm not opposed to playing other games with similar aspects at all, just a matter of time. I may be able to put a mod video together... just have to find the right ones :)
Seems like there are far too many variables for a definitive answer (other than the one you gave of "build order is very important"), but this video was still very useful. Thanks for doing these experiments, it's one of the things I enjoy most about your videos.
I prefer to have all in one but I also have the modded construction offices. 3 32 slot construction office with 6 flatbeds (at least 2 to carry vehicles), 5-6 dumpers, and 5-6 concrete trucks and 1-2 of everything else works best for me. In smaller towns I use the same ratio but with smaller construction offices. Also you should do the same test at the end of a dirt road and at the edge of bus maximum range. I'm interested to see the results. If you get bored that is. Furthermore if you want a true test, build the large coal power plant mod. The 1600 tons of concrete and 500 tons of steel makes it one the hardest and most painful buildings to build early on. At least that's what the citizens say while they're in the long line of concrete trucks, about to run for the border. At least I think that's where they go.
I gotta say...my tutorials and tests are vanilla only so everyone can try it. Now, the largo COs...I tried that for a while, and it can work...but especially gravel, open storage items and concrete deserve more vehicles...it always works when you just have a few construction sites, but I like to fully automate everything, it takes a little longer because it's less optimized, but it allows me to concentrate on other things elsewhere:) The last thing... building 1 huge building wouldn't test anything, simply because all setups have the exact same vehicles, and if only 1 site is assigned they will all do the same, so it should roughly take the same time. The test is about "what's the best CO in a normal city construction situation"...for the large building you said, I think it would be better to have more dedicated COs plus a huge bus depot, so the site can run at full efficiency and never run out of everything, ergo bigger site gets constructed faster with more of the required vehicles. Hope that makes sense.
@@bballjo I was actually talking about replacing the production line with the power plant, then putting it just inside of bus range. Keeping everything else the same. Must of the time the citizens won't make it to the power plant. This can in turn use up more citizens for the construction of the powerplant, starving everything else of workers. At least, that's been my experience. My point is never rely on this huge building or industry to solve your economic needs. I had this issue when I first started. Recently I've started to go for a lot of small farms and building up a good food, fuel, and meat distribution. Slow gas stations was another big issue I was having and not having a gas station near your power plant and main bus stop is asking for trouble. No more brownouts, no more starving citizens and no more joyriding bus drivers (usually). Sorry sometimes when I have insomnia I have trouble staying on topic and getting my point across. I hope this makes some sense. Anyways Thanks again for the videos, they're helping a lot. P.S. Nothing I write is backed by actual testing, just normal gameplay. Just FYI.
I think for the first point...you can always go bigger, I don't think it would change the outcome, but I maybe wrong :) To your second problem...let me tell you most of your problems can be solved by using cableways as your mode of transport for very important industries like power plants ;)
@@bballjo Cableways are fun but are expensive. Plus I would want to build each cabin and transport it to sight. This adds difficulty and makes it more realistic. Also adds cost and I've never tried it to see if it works. Busses work fine unless they glitch and go too far away to get fuel. This can also make them bunch up but for now it's what I have. I do like the idea but I think the developer needs to focus on getting the busses working right. Plus I can't copy everything you do. Where's the fun in that.
I also forgot to say, putting other things near the power plant such as; heating plants, firestations, etc increases the busses going to the area. This also helps keep everything going. Besides it's always nice to have more firestations.
What do you think about building several structures at the same time but with staggered start times? Example: You have completed the ground work step of one building and then started the next. So now you are running two constructions with different material and machine requirements. You can be more efficient, but you need more management of it.
It can be done for a few sites, but the COs algorithm to determine where to send vehicles/materials/workers is not great, and there is a good chance your buildings will end up in the same construction stage very soon, even if you stagger the beginning...this is more a problem for constructions that require workers, but keeping the total number of concurrent construction sites small is your best bet 99% of the time...
To an extent, yes. You cannot import asphalt and concrete, you'll need buildings for that. For the rest you just need to supply storage (warehouse, open storage, aggregate storage) and you can either import yourself or autobuy the resources in those storages.
Just spam all the things. There are mods with huge CO's in the workshop, use those, and dont assign all of the construction site, just a handful at a time, and life will be good :D
Is it necessary to build the own construction material line? I tried to make train supply construction material line and it worked perfectly just fit in own construction sites but the problem is it takes too much time to finish it. Even train station take more than 10 minutes. I just sick of it to make buildings by my self but you played lots more time than you may know what's the answer my question. First. I realize it's impossible to construct whole buildings by myself within short time than What kind buildings should I build myself? Can you recommend me? Second. Do you think that's necessary to make construction material supply factory chain in this game? Except steel, I don't feel is it more profit to import items than make by own factory in my republic? This game need construction speed up options or mods, it's too realistic to enjoy whole contents. even construction speed up cheet annoying me
Construction is actually pretty quick if you supply everything, just only build a few things at the same time and don't overextend. You can play without being self sufficient so you can play without the construction stuff...it's really your call on what you want to do in the game. No speed up needed...but this game isn't for everyone.
That was weirdly thrilling. Maybe my high school bullies were right about me.
Well...they must have been right about me too, because watching construction vehicles go around and do their stuff is awesome!!
never apologise or be apologetic for being the smartest person in the room
be the nerd your bullies expect of you
Thanks like the idea of a single storage option including asphalt and cement etc in one location going to amend mine accordingly. Your series is the most informative more instructional instead of watching someone just play a game. This game is so addictive I have hardly logged onto my MMORPG addiction for over a week :D
Glad I'm pulling you to the good side ;)
What about randomly picking vehicles you think you need and sticking COs wherever you can find space?
Asking for a friend.
It's an option:)
a ring of dirt roads intersecting the construction project helps, creates more work zones simultaneously
That is true, but a double edged sword...too many workplaces can slow you down, too few are also not always desirable...but you're right utilizing the dirt roads for expanding your construction sites is a good idea.
Nice Video I would happily watch more of this kind of theorycrafting stuff.
I think there is some consideration too to how many workers are needed. Very hard to simulate in a test like this, but in a real game there would be busses picking up factory workers too. If your CO picked up less workers but used them more effectively, then more are available to do normal factory work. I think specialized COs can do this, because you can have a road CO with no busses, a "small job" CO for footpaths/conveyors/pipes/wires with mini busses and road cranes, and 1 or more big job COs for buildings with full sized busses and tower cranes.
Also one other comment about specialized COs, I think your test had this correct, but make sure you always have enough vehicles to be able to deliver at least 1 truckload of each resource for the building phase so the mechanisms and workers get dispatched asap after only one delivery by the trucks. So at least 2 dumpers if the CO needs to singlehandedly deliver gravel and asphalt, and at least 3 (or 4) open hulls if the CO needs to singlehandedly deliver Steel/Brick/Boards/Prefabs.
Thanks! I'll try to make more:)
The worker situation...I *think* in an ideal setup, you have 2 bus stops, 1 for a CO and one for other stuff (or more each), that way your CO can always pickup workers, so I'm not sure I am agreeing with you statement. However, if we are looking at the super early game, where we are really restricted in our workforce it may still matter, but that would be hard to model for a test like this just like you said.
Very agreed on you specialized point to have at least 1 vehicle per resource.
for me: i build have construction yards set up like (mind you, using some large capacity workshop offices)
a general construction yard of transports like dumpers, open/covered hulls, mixers and road cranes for structures and infrastructure
a dedicated machines yard for excavators, tower cranes and large flatbed trucks set to deliver mechanism by truck only and set to deliver only to buildings
a dedicated roadworks yard for road buildings with bulldozers, rollers and pavers along open hull trucks for material and the machines and a single covered hull truck and large capacity bus for road building only. also a road crane truck. if funds allow, a fleet of dumptrucks for the gravel and asphalt delivery for roads only so the general yard will have their trucks focus on buildings only since long asphalt road projects can occupy many dumptrucks holding asphalt for a while.
and finally a yard near a major bus platform for a fleet of microbuses (like the polish zuk) on all except for roads since the bus dropping off workers at roads during the paving process causes it to stop until unloaded.
really it's good to have roadworks yards and structure construction yards be separated as much as possible
This, like all tutorials you make is extremly helpful! Also, thank you for adding context and tid bits to the tutorial. It really helps out to better understand everything!
the quality of the machinery influences but, I strongly believe the speed of construcción is all depends of workers. good clip as always bballjo 🥂
Not all construction phases require workers...but for the ones that do, the working speed is a multiplier for the worker workday... something like machine speed 30 means 1 worker can produce 30 workdays in a day.
Hey bballjo, great and informative video as usual! However: what about an update of this video? I think many things have been changed by the devs since this experiment was released about two years ago and maybe this impacted those setups? Just an idea/suggestion! Liebe Grüße :)
Lol ..all tutorials are outdated in some details...I already said in redoing them after the trash update as everything changes every update...
How the game works now (with the changes on not allowing the tuning of maximum workers), you need to put the buses to another construction office and keep manually assigning and removing constuction from that office. Otherwise the game just keeps pushing workers to construction that does not have resources. Also that way you can stop the buses stopping the asfalt work.
That would work indeed be the most efficient way for busses.
Amazing as usual...
(Still trying to catch up with the other series)
Keep up the good work. I'm just clapping at your hard work :)
Thank you! I think you may have a better chance to catch up in the near future ;)
@@bballjo hehehe anyway it is great
i use the modded XL construction office with 32 vehicles but i think this is generally applicable to vanilla
I have a big "general construction" office in each city that has all the vehicles for any job but NO buses, then a separate construction office with JUST buses. I do this because a lot of my construction jobs are in walking range of stations or residential buildings. If a project requires bus transport to get workers there, I assign the buses, but if not, i just have my workers commute to the site using the existing network. this allows me to cut down on traffic and have more construction projects going at once.
I like it.
great comparison, thank you for that! It would be a hassle without a clone tool
yeah, even with the clone tool it was hard work...getting all the vehicles took a long time because i kept missing 1 or 2 ;D Glad you liked it! There will be another one soon!
very good content, thank you for sharing! I've concluded to use a dedicated setup like you showcased, with modded COs in my plays with a setup as follows: 32 space CO with only covered/open hulls for Materials, 8 space for busses only, 16 for cranes assigned to non-roads, 8 or 16 for roads only and if I'm going for heavy industry builds (lots of conveyors/factories) I'll add a specialized CO, but that's typically only one in the big industrial zone complex.
As for your next vid, I'd recommend you look into how you'd build a redundant power supply network with no single point of failure that covers your whole republic while able to import/export power from the border. hint: It's gonna be quite a maze, even if you use mods, as you're limited to max 19MW per junction :)
That is a nice idea, but there is a hard limit to the power network of 17 nodes (that's the last number I heard), past that and no more power flows, so you can't really make 1 large interconnected network, but you should make several smaller networks, with multiple sources...I'll see if I can dig up the real number and maybe run some tests on this, as it was mostly from hear say...
@@bballjo hmm haven't had this limitation yet in my cosmonaut playthrough, but the limit of 18mw is real pain. I'll post something on reddit once I reach 100k pop or the year 2021, whatever comes first - I know you lurk there so we'll continue that discussion there :p currently I'm in 1987 at close to 30k pop with 3 power plants serving 3 districts, so far so good :) Just think that you can cut almost any wire and power does not interrupt, would make for a nice tutorial :D
I would love that ability. I *think if you split the map into something like a dice #5 pattern, with a power plant on each for (maybe that makes sense, probably doesn't) you could just connect all the space in between with power lines, and maybe for m each power plant the max node number would always be less than 17, at least until the next power plant would fill in the rest :) maybe you can give that a shot?
good insight, thank you for showing it. i like using dedicated to support the general construction with ressources on bigger projects. road construction remains a mixed bag for me, maybe it is the "stuttering" you described, im gonna try specialised for road. for transportable vehicles i also like a dedicated office, too much headache before. ah, one thing to ask, would you play something like factory town? with your skill, it would be a great watch! a mod video would be great too, showing of some of the good conveyor engines, vehicles and useful building.
Thanks! I'm not opposed to playing other games with similar aspects at all, just a matter of time.
I may be able to put a mod video together... just have to find the right ones :)
Seems like there are far too many variables for a definitive answer (other than the one you gave of "build order is very important"), but this video was still very useful.
Thanks for doing these experiments, it's one of the things I enjoy most about your videos.
Thankyou. I went dedicated. This tutorial sped up my game hugely. Was starting to get bored
I prefer to have all in one but I also have the modded construction offices. 3 32 slot construction office with 6 flatbeds (at least 2 to carry vehicles), 5-6 dumpers, and 5-6 concrete trucks and 1-2 of everything else works best for me. In smaller towns I use the same ratio but with smaller construction offices. Also you should do the same test at the end of a dirt road and at the edge of bus maximum range. I'm interested to see the results. If you get bored that is. Furthermore if you want a true test, build the large coal power plant mod. The 1600 tons of concrete and 500 tons of steel makes it one the hardest and most painful buildings to build early on. At least that's what the citizens say while they're in the long line of concrete trucks, about to run for the border. At least I think that's where they go.
I gotta say...my tutorials and tests are vanilla only so everyone can try it.
Now, the largo COs...I tried that for a while, and it can work...but especially gravel, open storage items and concrete deserve more vehicles...it always works when you just have a few construction sites, but I like to fully automate everything, it takes a little longer because it's less optimized, but it allows me to concentrate on other things elsewhere:)
The last thing... building 1 huge building wouldn't test anything, simply because all setups have the exact same vehicles, and if only 1 site is assigned they will all do the same, so it should roughly take the same time. The test is about "what's the best CO in a normal city construction situation"...for the large building you said, I think it would be better to have more dedicated COs plus a huge bus depot, so the site can run at full efficiency and never run out of everything, ergo bigger site gets constructed faster with more of the required vehicles. Hope that makes sense.
@@bballjo I was actually talking about replacing the production line with the power plant, then putting it just inside of bus range. Keeping everything else the same. Must of the time the citizens won't make it to the power plant. This can in turn use up more citizens for the construction of the powerplant, starving everything else of workers. At least, that's been my experience. My point is never rely on this huge building or industry to solve your economic needs. I had this issue when I first started. Recently I've started to go for a lot of small farms and building up a good food, fuel, and meat distribution. Slow gas stations was another big issue I was having and not having a gas station near your power plant and main bus stop is asking for trouble. No more brownouts, no more starving citizens and no more joyriding bus drivers (usually). Sorry sometimes when I have insomnia I have trouble staying on topic and getting my point across. I hope this makes some sense. Anyways Thanks again for the videos, they're helping a lot.
P.S. Nothing I write is backed by actual testing, just normal gameplay. Just FYI.
I think for the first point...you can always go bigger, I don't think it would change the outcome, but I maybe wrong :)
To your second problem...let me tell you most of your problems can be solved by using cableways as your mode of transport for very important industries like power plants ;)
@@bballjo Cableways are fun but are expensive. Plus I would want to build each cabin and transport it to sight. This adds difficulty and makes it more realistic. Also adds cost and I've never tried it to see if it works. Busses work fine unless they glitch and go too far away to get fuel. This can also make them bunch up but for now it's what I have. I do like the idea but I think the developer needs to focus on getting the busses working right. Plus I can't copy everything you do. Where's the fun in that.
I also forgot to say, putting other things near the power plant such as; heating plants, firestations, etc increases the busses going to the area. This also helps keep everything going. Besides it's always nice to have more firestations.
What do you think about building several structures at the same time but with staggered start times? Example: You have completed the ground work step of one building and then started the next. So now you are running two constructions with different material and machine requirements. You can be more efficient, but you need more management of it.
It can be done for a few sites, but the COs algorithm to determine where to send vehicles/materials/workers is not great, and there is a good chance your buildings will end up in the same construction stage very soon, even if you stagger the beginning...this is more a problem for constructions that require workers, but keeping the total number of concurrent construction sites small is your best bet 99% of the time...
Can i somehow use only my workforce and just import everything else?
To an extent, yes. You cannot import asphalt and concrete, you'll need buildings for that. For the rest you just need to supply storage (warehouse, open storage, aggregate storage) and you can either import yourself or autobuy the resources in those storages.
So i need an Architecture University degree to build my city
I just want a simple vehicular setup to build faster 😔
Just spam all the things. There are mods with huge CO's in the workshop, use those, and dont assign all of the construction site, just a handful at a time, and life will be good :D
The only thing is missing is counter of total wasted fuel + vehicle's wearing count.
thns for your test)
Is it necessary to build the own construction material line?
I tried to make train supply construction material line and it worked perfectly just fit in own construction sites but the problem is it takes too much time to finish it. Even train station take more than 10 minutes. I just sick of it to make buildings by my self but you played lots more time than you may know what's the answer my question.
First. I realize it's impossible to construct whole buildings by myself within short time than What kind buildings should I build myself? Can you recommend me?
Second. Do you think that's necessary to make construction material supply factory chain in this game? Except steel, I don't feel is it more profit to import items than make by own factory in my republic?
This game need construction speed up options or mods, it's too realistic to enjoy whole contents. even construction speed up cheet annoying me
Construction is actually pretty quick if you supply everything, just only build a few things at the same time and don't overextend.
You can play without being self sufficient so you can play without the construction stuff...it's really your call on what you want to do in the game.
No speed up needed...but this game isn't for everyone.
@@bballjoThanks to fast reply! Over extension could be another reason to make construction harder.
but why u are building it liek this when u can build instant?
I can't tell if you're trolling or serious...