After trying out league stones, rollable watchstones, regional atlas, finally inventing the most fan-favorite system (atlas passives) - we are at the damned, but unrollable, watchstones again (at least watchstones only had 1 mechanic on them, here you need to highroll multiple).
@@laizerwoolf A bit? Idk why they even put it in the game. It's just an illusion of choice, everyone does the same thing on it. Complete failure of a system
@@Mawsify let's not act like the majority of PoE players aren't doing the exact same thing in PoE, hyper juicing maps with deli + altars + MF + whichever league mechanic complements that best (or invitation farming, which is done in PoE2 as well). I agree any day that PoE2 has major design flaws in endgame, but let's not exaggerate.
I wish GGG didn’t think “less deterministic” was a good thing. I’m glad this is only for a month, and I feel bad for poe 2 players as this is likely an alternative endgame ggg is testing for them.
Most players HATED the hyper determinism of Necropolis league. After the backlash I think that level of determinism is gone for good. In any case this will be a wild ride
@@sirgogno1 hated the determination it was the setup. It was never people hating they they actually got good items... most ppl enjoyed harvest and it wasn't as good at making perfect items... it just wasn't nearly as boring to setup as necropolis.
Honestly that being your take is crazy.... I don't think I heard a single person say they didn't like the items necropolis made... it was what you had to go through to make them.... sorry for the double post... I'm shocked
@ exactly. Have to path to them somewhere costing points but allowing for you to slot in content that boosts what you want to play, rather than what is just filler for the sake of spending.
This kind of kills the hype for me, after so many months of Settlers I was really looking forward to this event but playing without the Atlas tree it’s not going to be the same… RNG based atlas progression doesn’t look cool, I wish these idols were on top of the atlas tree with smaller effects
Same. I was so hype to try new classes. Hearing "now with double(+) the grind to progress in end game!" I'm not so sure why I'd go back to poe1 vs just sticking with 2. Unless they drop some unmissable banger of an ascendancy I guess.
GGG really seem to want more RNG and really hate player choice Its a crippling decision in poe2 and this is just bringing it to poe1 Also whoever in GGG thinks sanctum is the greatest mechanism ever invented really needs to be slapped
While I agree with you -- I think for an event especially since we've had 6+ months of the same league content shaking up the end game could be a lot of fun.
@@wh0reb0t I agree with this, but you forget how GGG uses data to confirm their biases. If the event does well (and I can't possibly see why it wouldn't), then if GGG is wanting this type of system for PoE1 or 2, they will have the 'data' to show that people like it. Because, of course, they're not going to actually do an analysis to see what people liked or didn't like. If theevent is liked, GGG will interpret that as the event being liked for the things that GGG wants to be liked, and if the event is disliked, same but reversed. This has been their MO for literally years (at least since Harvest, and presumably before that), and I see no reason to believe that they will have changed their approach.
After the disappointment of the Poe 2 endgame in comparison to poe, we find out this new poe 1 event will have a chop shopped endgame as well. Excellent
I don't mind the experimental aspect but this system has an insanely glaring and obvious issue that has been solved multiple times. The price of these are gonna be insane, and the people who get in early are gonna be the winners. Imagine if big boom unique is 100d, crop rotation is 100d. It really depends on the rarity of these things and the mods/weightings. Imagine ur like "I wanna do harvest", and then u look at idol prices and they are all 20 div each, because the price is gonna be balanced around the high end setup with full juice. And now you have to invest 100d in idols otherwise ur wasting ur money on harvest scarabs. This is an issue with King of the mists in poe2, sanctum relics, old uber boss entries. And I'm fairly sure it will be an issue with this system as well making most content inaccessible to the general playerbase. U bet ur ass im playing sanctum all league lmao I do think the solution is to make this additive with the atlas and then nerf the effects
@therealkylekelly because harvest scarabs will be priced based on having a full set of juiced idols. For example like how poe2 tablets were priced based on profits from having a full atlas tree. Or old uber boss entries being priced based on having the uber boss keystones allocated on your atlas tree
@@mas0ny11 Yep. So it would turn out that the best way to get ready for Harvest is NOT to use Harvest scarabs, but sell your Harvest scarabs to the people who are doing the max juice. Large RNG plus friction market = frustration. Apparently, that's what GGG wants.
Yeah I dunno about this, I'll give it a try but not having the Atlas chase kinda kills it for me. I like consistency in my endgame, I'm sure that once you have the relics you want it'll be insane, but getting there might be awful. Atleast trying the ascendancies will be fun.
I feel like the idols were in their mind long time ago when we got atlas splited into regions and old system of watchstones where you could socket them in certain regions and each got different mods.
I have a feeling this system is gonna be waaay worse than the Atlas tree. Needing to farm all these relics without a tree to back up? looks like hell. I was pretty hyped for the event with the new ascendancies, but this change here alone might send me away again. Let's see
Exactly my feeling. The atlas passive tree in poe1 is a masterpiece, but it's also a masterpiece I have solved already. New stuff for an event is fun, having a private league option to add later is super fun.
It's the tyranny of POE1 crafting. In POE2 the rarest mods are ~5-6 times as rare as the common ones on items. In 1 they are 40-80 times rarer (even 150 times in the past on watchstones)... because crafting is so good that anything more common feels boring and mundane. 2 solved this by nuking the alteration and scouring orbs, 1 solves it by making certain important items uncraftable. It's what GGG learned from players feeling compelled to spend 10000+ alterations rolling watchstones in 3.13.
Kinda wish this would've been a system to run along the atlas skill tree. Would've liked to see the idols being way weaker, with a modpool more similar to Watchstones from before with some new stuff baked into it. Also wish they were craftable.
That's what I'm saying. This whole thing is so stupid. Either put the power into the tree or put these alongside the tree as weaker versions that add up.
This is literally just watch stones but instead of being limited by people willing to craft and sell them, you are limited by actual RNG drops. it's literally a system made with poe2 game design decisions.
@@henrikswanstrom9218 That sounds incredibly tedious. And a system that would be designed that way would be designed to be ignored, which is a horrible game design for a temporary event. This is new and exciting, and if it's bad, it's gone in three weeks.
@@RobertusAmor13 we already had this system without the atlas tree. it was called watch stones and it was vastly inferior. The SYSTEM of player choice being gated by wealth and/or RNG drops is inferior. If you gave old watch stones these new mods, there is no difference between this new thing they somehow "need to see how it functions by itself" and the old watchstones which needed no atlas tree to influence it. Everyone knows that it feels kind of bad to be "poor" and feel gated out of certain farming strategies because they are based on very rare scarabs OR the scarabs are only efficient to party play, etc. Its not about the mods on the scarabs, its about the ability to play the game in that fashion at all. But for aspirational content, I suppose it's tolerable. This mechanic just makes every single cool effect we currently have on atlas tree fall under the purview of that icky feeling system. At best, what, you buy some cheap sub par relics for every single mechanic, fill up multiple quad tabs with this garbage, waste hours on the trade site to do this, and you end up with no different effect upon your mapping experience compared to that atlas system. What's the systematic upside here? When GGG says "with the atlas system you can only get so many stats because that's what they put on the tree, with this new system, you can potentially get much more'. yeah, thats not an issue of the atlas SYSTEM, that's just a simple balancing issue of the nodes/affixes themselves. It has nothing to do with the SYSTEM/DESIGN change. I don't know why so many people try to pretend like this new SYSTEM is opening up new possibilities. It is not. Its just new balancing of the actual nodes on the atlas (now affixes on relics instead), and insanely lowered QoL and user experience to allocate said nods (RNG drops and wealth tax on trade site, instead of steady acquisition through map completion). The former is the balance or the content itself in the map, which could be achieved by any system in any way. The later is the systematic/design change, and it sucks compared to the atlas. we already know this. poe1 already went through this test.
My first reaction was "It's a temporary league let them do whatever they want to test" but after seeing it I'm very skeptical. POE endgame strength is letting you do what you want and skip what you don't now its kind of just pure rng on what mechanics you get pushed into. I really hope its not to bad to play what content you actually enjoy. I will check out your Arakaali video because that has always been my favorite POE weapon.
Yes and none of this matters as it's a temporary league that's literally trying to be very different. It won't appeal to everyone and it doesn't have to
I dunno, itll be nice to not have to grind through the atlas and just open the tradesite and spend a little bit on magic idols with the content i want to play right when i get to maps.
Idols are interesting, but GGG should be aware of some obvious pitfalls: - Unmodifiable, tradeable Idols are essentially the same as the passive tree system, but with more friction, an aquisition cost and more power overall - Powerful Idol modifiers cannot be made too strong or too rare, otherwise the disparity between the top 1% players and everyone else will heavily impact player economy. Top players will farm most efficiently > generate the most drops > reducing the value of drops due to overabundancy, affecting others - If Idols drop too frequently and need to be identified, they will be a massive hassle to deal with (similar to Necropolis Coffins and Allflames or Metamorph Items in the past, where there was too much to pick up, identify, store and evaluate). So too many Idol drops is bad, but too few drops and rare modifiers being too impactful/enabling could be a huge issue as well Looking forward how this crazy experiment of an event will work out, GGG go crazy!
did they just said "replace the atlas passive skill tree" ???? why bro?? this looks like they are testing (again) some worse thing for poe 2. it straight up looking more annoying to deal with... ahhh 😑
This is going to be such a Z tier league/event, the fact GGG even considered a completely random endgame after pivoting away from that is a testimony into some of the leaks going around that GGG has been poorly run the last couple years since Chris stepped back. This will just be nonsense that they want to add to POE2 and so they will get you guys to test it in POE1, I won't be taking part.
This system seems great once you have a setup, and absolutely horrendous before that. If progression quests offers some basic non-rng idols (with like kirac, mechanic blockers and map tier chance) it might be fine, otherwise this utterly ruins progression.
I'm not against the idea of having that in a event but I really don't want that to become core. the Atlas Tree is the best addition in the game for a lot of years. If they want POE2 to be better than POE 1, they should improve POE 2, not make POE 1 worse
yeah.... don't know how I feel about this one... These are tradable so we know we are gonna be in a rich get richer situation pretty quick. Would you rather sell your idol for 3 div or have a 50% chance at ROI under 6 hours? So you'll have a decent but unoptimized setup where the ballers will be able to instant switch to optimized loadouts for the activity that turns out to be outperforming at the moment. Their "trees" will cost 200 times yours and be 8 times better. So you reaaaaaallly need to play sweaty at league start and pick a very safe build, log a decent number of hours and follow the "meta" like a hound. If you don't do this at the beginning you'll watch the rest of the league pass you by, being gated out of the fun stuff that will indubitably dominate in a rushed update with so many deep changes. So they forced us to choose one of these 2 camps even more than usual : fun league start, try out the new stuff, no need to 100% perma sweat but then fun fizzles out quickly or meta slave tryhard start to soar above the sheeple and play fun broken stuff later
Atlas tree is like PoE's profession system, it's so awesome to customize the content you want to play both based on your personal interests or coming up with currency making strategies. I don't see what problems they are trying to solve with relic systems -- but whatever they are, I feel like they're adding more problems than solving. Pushing more power to trade, especially when Atlas tree was used by players to customize how they could make currency for interacting with trade in the first place, bad; Tetris mechanics with different sized relics everytime you want to switch strategy, bad. Mental processing of reading and keeping track of all relics, bad; stash and relic micromanagement, bad; Most notably tho, is the first point, RNG system that uses trade which will just make the rich, richer. GGG should see Atlas tree for what it is, a deterministic profession system. So if they want to move away from Atlas tree, they need to make sure new format is also a deterministic profession/farming system. This is going to hurt SSF or players who try to minimize their interaction with trade even more. The current system with atlas + scarabs for users to customize the end game is so well done they seriously need to tread carefully. Perhaps alternative would be atlas tree jewel sockets, or use this system to replace scarabs. But again, I don't see which problems of the current atlas + scarab systems they're trying to solve, so... If respec is still an issue with the 3 Atlas load outs, then give us a couple more. Changing load outs is gonna be worse than respec given the Tetris mini game. And I never felt like there weren't enough exciting drops for PoE1...
Put quite simply, GGG has been moving player power out of deterministic modes (e.g., passive points) and into random modes (e.g., items) for a few years now, or at least that has been their stated design direction. I'm pretty sure that the 'problem' that they are trying to solve with this system is following this design philosophy above. And I believe that they follow this design philosophy because they, somehow, believe that this will help player retention and, somehow, therefore help their sales.
@@bystander85 I wouldn't put it past them, at this point, honestly. If you look at PoE2, that's effectively what they did: moved power out of the tree and placed it on gear. I don't think they'll remove the character passive tree, but doing as they've done in PoE2 is... pretty likely, IMO.
thats an L for me, poe atlas passive tree is masterpiece craft your own adventure, this is rng fiesta.. UNLESS there are some really craazy modifiers we dont know about
I dont want to keep testing stuff for PoE2. We all know this atlas change is going to be implemented like shit. More trading, less freedom, more micromanagement. You already know the good mods are going to be RARE and hard to compile. Im getting graveyard flashbacks. GGG does not learn from success. Players who arent super involved with trading/researching, or who want to SSF will have a complete dumpster endgame.
They better increase Kirac mission proc after map completion because without speccing into him you're not getting any Kirac missions at all. It's like 2% or 4% i can't remember but it's really REALLY low. On the other hand, you are not going to be concerned with completing Atlas asap because you don't farm the points anymore. Unless the blocks in this inventory are going to clear as you complete maps, similarly how they do in Sanctum. In the end this will play similarly to Atlas skill tree, but with some extra steps to it (such as trading for better idols). And this will produce some wild combinations with scarabs, I can see players stacking idols from one league mechanic to produce effects that are much greater than currently possible. Early mapping is going to be quite janky though, as you won't be able to get any league mechanics chance up. I was able to have 100% chance of Delirium or Ritual with just about 30 atlas points, as those chance nodes have been greatly buffed in 3.24.
Can't wait to be annoyed that it's a weighted tier system and that the most important/best mods have the lowest weight. And then some guy drops a perfect 4 strongbox mod all T1 idol and lists it for a mirror and it rots the entire league
There are only a couple of idol examples, but t looks like idol mods are exclusive along their associated league - so you wouldn't find an idol that has 4 Breach mods for example.
Seems to be but might also just be prefix and suffix exclusive IE you can maybe have a breach prefix and a breach suffix on 1 idol, but not 2 prefixes. Since these are magic and rare i assume the mods are separated into prefixes and suffixes as usual
the atlas passive tree is 90% of what makes POE fun after 10 years, losing it is a HUGE issue for me. this announcement killed any hype I had for the new ascendancies. early map progression and map sustain early stages of t16 mapping will be very difficult I think.
We all love the atlas tree but its solved, theres not really any hard choices for veteran players, id much rather something new thats worse than just the same thing every league.
This should be implemented somehow while in conjunction with the atlas passive tree. I like the idea. But I hate the idea of not having the atlas passive tree.
They should give us the option to choose between the atlas skill tree and the idol one upon opening a map, this new system alone will otherwise drive a portion of players away from the event
Infinite heist won't be back. I like heist and thought that event was a failure. Delve would have been fine - I'm a bit sick of Endless Delve but lots of people haven't had a chance to play it, and it's ~15-25 hours of fun once.
Totally disagree. I'm actually more hyped about this event than I've been for a league in a while. Re-doing a past event with known solutions would be incredibly boring
people really missing the point and not understanding how juiced those percentages are. insane ceiling for a 1 month event, excited to grind it out and set up something crazy.
Watchstones had some insane juice we still don't see to this day. Its not a matter of the juice, thats not what poeple are anxious about. Its the fact that the base system, in their minds, sucks ass...at least compared to the tree. We know this from watch stones. we know this from poe2. We learned with the atlas tree that its actually really important and fun for people to have a fairly deterministic method of getting to do the content they want with a reasonable amount of juice within a short time frame. No one wants to have to farm and drop or buy scores and scores of relics so that they can do the content they want. No one wants to have to spend 7-14 days acquiring all that just to have the freedom to swap between content. For most players this isn't a game meant to be played for 3 months at a time, and even GGG knows and states that. So when they add a system like this that slows player progression down a ton, when players only play for 2-4 weeks at a time, it makes it feel like you aren't getting anywhere. People aren't missing the point about busted juice, because that's not the point. That can literally happen with any system imaginable. They could literally just add that juice on top of the atlas for the event, if that was the point. Its not the point. juice is just balance. its the MECHANIC/DESIGN of "contented gated by RNG drops and trade side economy and extra tedious work and filling up stash space x1000 compared to the current system". its not the design of "THIS NODE/AFFIX IS BUSTED". Both systems can, in theory, achieve cool and wacky game states and have "busted" effects on maps. But the path to getting there is very distinct between the two, and we already learned that the atlas tree path feels 1000x better. I am not even personally effected, because I almost exclusively do out of map content for the majority of my time in most leagues. And I can see this clear as day. If there is something cool Ill just buy the relics, just like I bought scarabs and whatnot when I wanted to do mapping things in previous leagues. But its gonna suck to have to buy more. I DID do quite a bit of mapping in necro settlers, and I can tell you that league had some fun shit happen (due to the accessibility and ease of completely swapping around atlas trees) that would have been IMPOSSIBLE to adapt on the fly to under this proposed relic system. I can't think of a single upside other than "relics will be chase items that are fun to drop"...at the expense of your entire experience and time. even the "you dont have to respec ever again" thing is not an upside when the alternative is "stashes and stashes of different relics, sometimes which you might want to share between setups, and you are CONSTNATLY swapping in and out for tiny upgrades of 1% here and 2% there"
I can imagine a mixture of atlas tree and the idols would be very fun. Also at the beginning players wont really notice much effect from the idols, but there will be a turning-point where it gets a lot stronger. Also the endgame-ceiling for map mechanics is much much higher i think.
I remember someone from ggg saying, that they want players to make decisions and compromises instead of being on autopilot. So I could see how the atlas tree got bit too much of "pick and forget" for their liking. That'll going to be a painful quad stash junk drawer management, if you hoard them while having no idea if you need them for the next round of fomo.
Terrible design honestly, no tab for it = quad tabs required. unmodifiable = hoard = even more quad tabs. + it's going to be extremely tedious selling + buying + pricing, not looking forward to this whatsoever.
I think a lot of people here are complaining for the sake of complaining but you bring up a good point, ggg really do love introducting 100's of stash filing items to updates.
This system depends on drop rate and mod magnitude swings. If I can get 8 relics a map and 7.5 of them are trash, that's garbage and if you get one every 3 maps and it's not strong enough that is also garbage. I am fine with it for the event and it is most likely some poe 2 endgame bs experiment in the end.
IMO the right rarity is about the same as Heist contracts (1 per 1000 items or so). Early on you just need to get a few of them that do anything at all to get rolling; perfection comes later. Or maybe not perfection, but 2 relevant mods on each.
Looks like maybe they would only make this a void event if there were some experimental crafting added to it, so don't expect to see anything like that. I could see farming ritual with 15 free rerolls being possible, since the time investment would be quite good I think?
it is interesting, it will make changing what you farm faster, if you want to farm more that 3 strategies. I still think the atlas is better, but will be fun to experiment for the duration of the event. Seems way better than the atlas from PoE2 tbh, but I'm sure that will improve in time
Wtf is GGG doing? Pretty sure most people that love poe1 are bored of poe2 and are dying to get back into it but now they take out one of the best things about it? I was hyped but now not so sure.
I guess you can either have them unmodifiable, and it's a potential upgrade when they drop for longer, or allow them to be modified, and you can craft / buy a near perfect one much sooner, but then the chase stops sooner as well. The later prevents excessive item bloat, the former extends the grind.
@@Kobe005 just chaos spam for the most broken things and all the things coming from it will be essentially dirt cheap - which would mean people will go to the next strats that are less broken and the same will happen and eventually there wont be anything worthwhile to farm cause it was made so easy by being able to roll until you see the modifier you want. Not to mention that buying such things will also be in chaos orbs, maybe divines if its an insane roll, somewhat like jewels and cluster jewels. Although I am SSF player so might be wrong about that.
@iamyukkithesnowman9178 if these were rollable, they seem very similar to trying to roll jewels, so standard crafting strats would probably follow suit (transmute + alt spam until you get the two most desirable, regal for a decent 3rd mod, ex and pray). I don't think we'd run into the problem of there not being anything worthwhile to farm in general since that didn't even happen in affliction league, the league with super inflated amounts of currency in the economy, but I could see the costs of common crafts dropping drastically a few weeks into the event.
What would be cool is if you can use the Atlas tree as per usual, but the moment you put an idol in, it disabled the tree and used the idols. This would allow (a) MASSIVE testing, and (b) map progression while building up an idol load out.
In a month long event, what that would result in is some content creator would post an "Idols are broken" video and everyone would only use idols for the first few days, and then another would post an "Idols are useless" video, and then everyone would stop testing the system. If this was a long-term thing, maybe you'd want a toggle, but if the goal is to gauge how people like it and what they can do with it, the ability to have the entire community suddenly opt out because a video told them to would be a worse choice.
This isn't ment to be a test. So A) isn't part of the picture. This is old content that never made it on the live servers because they already noticed how bad it is. It's just ment to give PoE1 players a new league without having to spent ressources on it.
Interesting. Wasn't sold on this but now depending on the dates will definitely be giving it a go. Only problem is we are going away camping for 10 days in April so if its then I'll miss out on a 3rd of the league.
The part I liked the most is to "push the boundaries" of the current atlas. It will prolly make focus farm a lot more powerful. Can't wait for the datamine. It will feel weird not having to complete the atlas in the early game and just focus on pushing tiers. Lets hope altars unique relics aren't turbo rare.
I feel like the endgame atlas mapping tree is one of the best parts of current POE. I dont think trading it for some completely RNG idols is a good system. Does this also make map completion worthless? If I don't get an atlas skill point for finishing a corrupted red map for example, why should I ever run one? While I don't think itll really work out, I'm still excited to try it and I would be happy to be wrong and enjoy the idol system.
This is bad design. More management and more randomness. This is not relying on any skill. Only luck. I hate those decisions. I am really like REALLY hoping this is not their vision. I don't want to trow away a game where I spent thousands of hours and dollars. P.S. For future brave warriors comments. I am saying this in advance. Like for experimenting ok it is understandable. But I have my doubts cause of recent half year changes and explanations from GGG.
It's an event, it's supposed to be different from the base game, from base leagues... I understand people wanted 3.26 to play a new fresh league. This is not that, this is an event, just like infinite delve, or infinite heist. That being said, i'm happy to try the new ascendancies and this new endgame mapping system.
I think experimental stuffs are very interesting. Its not guaranteed to be fun but its a good way for them to test and revisit scrapped ideas. What would you think if this becomes a new model for ggg to lengthen each league moving forward, to give them time to alternate between poe1 and poe2. E.g. 3.26 releases, 3 months later we get an experimental league (3.265) with experimental unbalanced stuff
I could see the lack of stable progression and ability to select the encounters you want feeling potentially very bad in some situations, while the turbo endgame trade enjoyers could be printing mirrors with the right setup. I can only hope these things have a high enough drop rate that you'll be able to semi-reliably put together something cohesive even if you're an SSF player or not an avid trader.
As much as I love the atlas tree, the idols seem like a potentially fun change of pace as long as it is just for one league. I'm still hoping that they extend it to 2-3 months though.
Yea, crop rotation on T17 will be GIGAcrazy with right idols. IF there are enough so you get close to 100% on saving the crop it will be stoopid levels of harvest juice almost every time.
For some reasons they can cook up some system now anyway, go figure just takes a bit of rage. Not sure if this effort is worth doing for a one month challenge but who knows might run longer still.
With this change i suspect the event has to be voided no ? Else stacking modifiers like reopened strongboxes or some crazy rogue exiles could print WAY too much shit. Imagine you can get 90% chance to reopen currency or diviners strongboxes ? Or harbinger bosses dropping 10 times the normal shards ? With something this experimental its basically guaranteed somebody will find a way to print mirrors.
At first sight, this seemed extremely "bad" for lack of a better word. However if you think about it, this will affect EVERYONE and therefore the economy. It will force you to adapt to the idols you drop instead of just comfortably planning around, potentially pushing us to try new mechanics. I'm all for it honestly !
Lots of other people have voiced their concerns or observations for poe2 endgame . . I kinda got sick of PoE2 endgame, i didnt even do the pinnacle bosses, and was looking towards PoE1. when i found put there was no league i was actually surprised. I trusted GGG would make good on their impossible promise. Then i saw the event and thought: "hey that might be fun i missed the atlas tree and PoE1 endgame" Now the idols have left me feeling like it will be like PoE2 engame where i have to do a bunch of maps i dont wanna do. idk, i just wanted to play PoE1.
Player agency to engage with content is sacrosanct to me. It's the difference between wanting to waste your time playing games and having a game waste your time instead. The core gameplay loop is plenty exciting as is, and I'm sick and tired of the slot machine mechanics they keep peddling league after league. Thankfully it's a one-month event focused on experimentation, so I'm willing to try it before I knock it. But I will be incredibly disappointed if this replaces the Atlas Tree in 3.26. I'd sooner say goodbye to Faustus than our current version of the endgame. AND I REALLY LIKE FAUSTUS 😐
I said on official board... but interesting change for a short term event. But almost certainly worse than what we already have. Would like to see "jewel" slots added to atlas for extra customization. Feels like getting maps dropped and tiered up will be a bother since we can't just rush for those points to start.
@@MikeSakaru I actually feel like the instant writing off of this even based of the first thing people aren't entirely sure about is a bit much, we haven't even remotely theory crafted setup, and yet everyone is somehow already sure that it's going to be worse than the atlas, for the sole reason that new = scary. It's a fun short even based on trying to change everything you know about the game, wish people were more open for change when it doesn't impact the normal game. Have some fun!
@@nomadraider People are open to changes. It's the part where you remove arguably the best part of the game to put in a hit or miss mechanic is what people are mad about. They could've just added this on top of the existing atlas tree. If it's good, people gonna enjoy it. If it's bad, the atlas tree will make sure people will still enjoy the game to some extent.
@@nomadraider It's gonna be worse. I want you to think. The atlas tree allows you to build Endgame progression purely from finishing Maps. Normally during early maps, the biggest problem is Map sustain, so obviously players spec into Kirac and shaping. Once you get good enough sustain you then try to pair it up with a good early league mechanic to either help you with leveling or currency. Players even plan out their Atlas Tree based on what build they are playing and how effective it is on running it. You don't even need to get all your void stone to have a good functional Early Game farming strategy. Beast/Essence or Expedition/Blight. You can do all of this just from purely progressing your map. This new system is entirely RNG and literally rely on trading to make sure that you can at least progress in a normal matter. It doesn't take a pure genius to see that having a choice on how you progress is 10x better than having to pray to RNGesus to drop the idol that can help you in your progression. Map sustain Idol will skyrocket in prices during the few weeks and then normalize after a couple of weeks. Those that were able to take advantage of it will be far ahead of the progression while the rest will be scrounging. They did not test this enough, this will entirely be broken for some while agonizing for others. People seriously forgot the whole Divine Rat abuse in Necro league and the abominable Tumbling Wealth in NecroSettler where it immediately killed that rerun in just a week. It greatly damaged the economy. At least with those it's purely Gear progression that is hindered while this will cause a hinder to map progression. This new system will either skyrocket the few who gets lucky in their Idol drops or gimp their progression by dropping unhelpful Idols.
@@nomadraiderits going to be so tedious...having to look through all those drops just to see what you actually dropped is hideous. Its just so cumbersome...absolute bummer
Yay, now I farm to rng the content that I want, so I'll have to make a character for that so that I can get the content and I'll need a second character to focus on that then I'll trade to fill up all my idols so that I can finally play the content I want by the end of the league ... Or I spend so much time on the damn trade site. Whatever ... It's probably fine. I just need to focus on the new build opportunities.
I know doomers can't fathom the idea that this is simply a "whacky idea that never made it off the brainstorm board" (GGG prefaced this) and everything is a conspiracy to test for PoE2, but I think this is genuinely just a crazy idea they came up with. Clearly not a lot of thought went into it, certainly nowhere near as much as would have if we were actually testing a planned feature. As long as the idols drop in abundance and the variation isn't too high, it should hopefully be easy enough to reach the same floor we're used to, but also a much higher potential ceiling - could be interesting!
After trying out league stones, rollable watchstones, regional atlas, finally inventing the most fan-favorite system (atlas passives) - we are at the damned, but unrollable, watchstones again (at least watchstones only had 1 mechanic on them, here you need to highroll multiple).
Something something testing an endgame for poe2
I'll actually take it if its for poe2. The atlas map for poe2 is a bit lackluster tbh.
That's what I'm wondering
@@laizerwoolf A bit? Idk why they even put it in the game. It's just an illusion of choice, everyone does the same thing on it. Complete failure of a system
@@Mawsify let's not act like the majority of PoE players aren't doing the exact same thing in PoE, hyper juicing maps with deli + altars + MF + whichever league mechanic complements that best (or invitation farming, which is done in PoE2 as well). I agree any day that PoE2 has major design flaws in endgame, but let's not exaggerate.
the systems are built to be hot swapped. It's not "for poe2" it's "for the franchise"
I wish GGG didn’t think “less deterministic” was a good thing. I’m glad this is only for a month, and I feel bad for poe 2 players as this is likely an alternative endgame ggg is testing for them.
Most players HATED the hyper determinism of Necropolis league. After the backlash I think that level of determinism is gone for good.
In any case this will be a wild ride
@@sirgog no, we hated the coffins and all the inventory management
@@sirgogno1 hated the determination it was the setup. It was never people hating they they actually got good items... most ppl enjoyed harvest and it wasn't as good at making perfect items... it just wasn't nearly as boring to setup as necropolis.
Honestly that being your take is crazy.... I don't think I heard a single person say they didn't like the items necropolis made... it was what you had to go through to make them.... sorry for the double post... I'm shocked
@@SinfulPanda9028 "no1" thats a massive stretch buddy stop talking for other people.
Just add these as atlas tree cluster jewels instead.
That's a cool idea
Im sick of cluster jewels tbh.
It would also constitute an opportunity cost that way, so they can still have some power to them.
@ exactly. Have to path to them somewhere costing points but allowing for you to slot in content that boosts what you want to play, rather than what is just filler for the sake of spending.
This kind of kills the hype for me, after so many months of Settlers I was really looking forward to this event but playing without the Atlas tree it’s not going to be the same… RNG based atlas progression doesn’t look cool, I wish these idols were on top of the atlas tree with smaller effects
Same. I was so hype to try new classes. Hearing "now with double(+) the grind to progress in end game!" I'm not so sure why I'd go back to poe1 vs just sticking with 2.
Unless they drop some unmissable banger of an ascendancy I guess.
Yeah. My hype went from 100 to 0 real fast there. :( damn it.
Unmodifiable!
GGG really seem to want more RNG and really hate player choice
Its a crippling decision in poe2 and this is just bringing it to poe1
Also whoever in GGG thinks sanctum is the greatest mechanism ever invented really needs to be slapped
While I agree with you -- I think for an event especially since we've had 6+ months of the same league content shaking up the end game could be a lot of fun.
@@wh0reb0t I agree with this, but you forget how GGG uses data to confirm their biases. If the event does well (and I can't possibly see why it wouldn't), then if GGG is wanting this type of system for PoE1 or 2, they will have the 'data' to show that people like it. Because, of course, they're not going to actually do an analysis to see what people liked or didn't like. If theevent is liked, GGG will interpret that as the event being liked for the things that GGG wants to be liked, and if the event is disliked, same but reversed.
This has been their MO for literally years (at least since Harvest, and presumably before that), and I see no reason to believe that they will have changed their approach.
I have a feeling this is a poe2 system
After the disappointment of the Poe 2 endgame in comparison to poe, we find out this new poe 1 event will have a chop shopped endgame as well. Excellent
Poe one players hate multiple layers of rng.... fuck it let's add another
I don't mind the experimental aspect but this system has an insanely glaring and obvious issue that has been solved multiple times. The price of these are gonna be insane, and the people who get in early are gonna be the winners. Imagine if big boom unique is 100d, crop rotation is 100d. It really depends on the rarity of these things and the mods/weightings.
Imagine ur like "I wanna do harvest", and then u look at idol prices and they are all 20 div each, because the price is gonna be balanced around the high end setup with full juice. And now you have to invest 100d in idols otherwise ur wasting ur money on harvest scarabs.
This is an issue with King of the mists in poe2, sanctum relics, old uber boss entries. And I'm fairly sure it will be an issue with this system as well making most content inaccessible to the general playerbase. U bet ur ass im playing sanctum all league lmao
I do think the solution is to make this additive with the atlas and then nerf the effects
Better solution would be to make them absolutely abundant, to the point where you start filtering them out after the first month of playtime.
how would you be wasting your money on harvest scarabs? it would be a stepping stone, farm with scarabs until you can afford the gg idols.
@drakenova9738 and then every map ull drop 20 of them and need to Id them all and have no affinity to deal with them sounds annoying
@therealkylekelly because harvest scarabs will be priced based on having a full set of juiced idols. For example like how poe2 tablets were priced based on profits from having a full atlas tree. Or old uber boss entries being priced based on having the uber boss keystones allocated on your atlas tree
@@mas0ny11 Yep. So it would turn out that the best way to get ready for Harvest is NOT to use Harvest scarabs, but sell your Harvest scarabs to the people who are doing the max juice.
Large RNG plus friction market = frustration. Apparently, that's what GGG wants.
Yeah I dunno about this, I'll give it a try but not having the Atlas chase kinda kills it for me. I like consistency in my endgame, I'm sure that once you have the relics you want it'll be insane, but getting there might be awful.
Atleast trying the ascendancies will be fun.
I feel like the idols were in their mind long time ago when we got atlas splited into regions and old system of watchstones where you could socket them in certain regions and each got different mods.
I have a feeling this system is gonna be waaay worse than the Atlas tree.
Needing to farm all these relics without a tree to back up? looks like hell.
I was pretty hyped for the event with the new ascendancies, but this change here alone might send me away again. Let's see
Maybe these idols drop occasionally allready in the campaign...what i think might be a bigger problem is map sustain... ;)
If you are on trade league, you can buy and sell them. Should be ok.
@@lylar2 how you getting currency if you aint got good relics
@@mikea.1652 yeah exactly my concern a large part of the pathing in our trees and even some invested nodes help us sustain also what about favorites
@@c-tothefourth4879 scarabs?
we are poe2 beta testers once again. i just dont want sanctum to ruin my fun in poe1 now.
It will probably ending feeling worse than the Atlas (at least for me), but for a one month event it is very cool. Can't wait for the event to start!!
Exactly my feeling. The atlas passive tree in poe1 is a masterpiece, but it's also a masterpiece I have solved already. New stuff for an event is fun, having a private league option to add later is super fun.
yep this is sad news. the atlas is probably my favorite part of poe1. but ill try anything to get my poe fix
I hate "unmodifiable" its so very un-PoE
It's the tyranny of POE1 crafting. In POE2 the rarest mods are ~5-6 times as rare as the common ones on items. In 1 they are 40-80 times rarer (even 150 times in the past on watchstones)... because crafting is so good that anything more common feels boring and mundane.
2 solved this by nuking the alteration and scouring orbs, 1 solves it by making certain important items uncraftable. It's what GGG learned from players feeling compelled to spend 10000+ alterations rolling watchstones in 3.13.
Kinda wish this would've been a system to run along the atlas skill tree.
Would've liked to see the idols being way weaker, with a modpool more similar to Watchstones from before with some new stuff baked into it.
Also wish they were craftable.
That's what I'm saying. This whole thing is so stupid. Either put the power into the tree or put these alongside the tree as weaker versions that add up.
This is literally just watch stones but instead of being limited by people willing to craft and sell them, you are limited by actual RNG drops. it's literally a system made with poe2 game design decisions.
@@henrikswanstrom9218 That sounds incredibly tedious. And a system that would be designed that way would be designed to be ignored, which is a horrible game design for a temporary event. This is new and exciting, and if it's bad, it's gone in three weeks.
I assume they want to see how the system functions by itself, without the atlas tree influencing it.
@@RobertusAmor13 we already had this system without the atlas tree. it was called watch stones and it was vastly inferior. The SYSTEM of player choice being gated by wealth and/or RNG drops is inferior. If you gave old watch stones these new mods, there is no difference between this new thing they somehow "need to see how it functions by itself" and the old watchstones which needed no atlas tree to influence it.
Everyone knows that it feels kind of bad to be "poor" and feel gated out of certain farming strategies because they are based on very rare scarabs OR the scarabs are only efficient to party play, etc. Its not about the mods on the scarabs, its about the ability to play the game in that fashion at all. But for aspirational content, I suppose it's tolerable. This mechanic just makes every single cool effect we currently have on atlas tree fall under the purview of that icky feeling system. At best, what, you buy some cheap sub par relics for every single mechanic, fill up multiple quad tabs with this garbage, waste hours on the trade site to do this, and you end up with no different effect upon your mapping experience compared to that atlas system. What's the systematic upside here?
When GGG says "with the atlas system you can only get so many stats because that's what they put on the tree, with this new system, you can potentially get much more'. yeah, thats not an issue of the atlas SYSTEM, that's just a simple balancing issue of the nodes/affixes themselves. It has nothing to do with the SYSTEM/DESIGN change. I don't know why so many people try to pretend like this new SYSTEM is opening up new possibilities. It is not. Its just new balancing of the actual nodes on the atlas (now affixes on relics instead), and insanely lowered QoL and user experience to allocate said nods (RNG drops and wealth tax on trade site, instead of steady acquisition through map completion). The former is the balance or the content itself in the map, which could be achieved by any system in any way. The later is the systematic/design change, and it sucks compared to the atlas. we already know this. poe1 already went through this test.
Sounds like a test run for poe2
Even if it doesn't work out I'm honestly curious to see some of these alternate ideas for a short event like this!
@@k.h.raider9329 i'm agree with you , we'll see and maybe the best part will be be reuse for 3.26
Totaly. A 'what if?' league is interesting. Maybe some of the ideas can be recycled to be more suited for what we already have.
0% chance this doesn't completely destroy the Phrecia economy lmao... Idk the ascendencies look really cool but this kills a lot of the hype for me
who cares about a special event economy, its going to be void anyways.
My first reaction was "It's a temporary league let them do whatever they want to test" but after seeing it I'm very skeptical. POE endgame strength is letting you do what you want and skip what you don't now its kind of just pure rng on what mechanics you get pushed into. I really hope its not to bad to play what content you actually enjoy. I will check out your Arakaali video because that has always been my favorite POE weapon.
Yes and none of this matters as it's a temporary league that's literally trying to be very different. It won't appeal to everyone and it doesn't have to
But they are literally taking away one of the reasonss why people love poe1
I dunno, itll be nice to not have to grind through the atlas and just open the tradesite and spend a little bit on magic idols with the content i want to play right when i get to maps.
@@shanebovell6733 then why make a temporary league at all? they already achieved „being different“ with poe2, why do it to poe1 as well?
Theyre REALLY trying to sell the idea of wasting time not playing fun content as a standard.
I really doubt its all discarded old ideas.
most gonna be stuff they want to test for poe2, just not in the testversion of poe2 ...
Reminds me of the regional Watchstones (chromium/platinum/titanium), sort of expecting it to be heavily weighted as they were too.
Idols are interesting, but GGG should be aware of some obvious pitfalls:
- Unmodifiable, tradeable Idols are essentially the same as the passive tree system, but with more friction, an aquisition cost and more power overall
- Powerful Idol modifiers cannot be made too strong or too rare, otherwise the disparity between the top 1% players and everyone else will heavily impact player economy. Top players will farm most efficiently > generate the most drops > reducing the value of drops due to overabundancy, affecting others
- If Idols drop too frequently and need to be identified, they will be a massive hassle to deal with (similar to Necropolis Coffins and Allflames or Metamorph Items in the past, where there was too much to pick up, identify, store and evaluate). So too many Idol drops is bad, but too few drops and rare modifiers being too impactful/enabling could be a huge issue as well
Looking forward how this crazy experiment of an event will work out, GGG go crazy!
did they just said "replace the atlas passive skill tree" ???? why bro?? this looks like they are testing (again) some worse thing for poe 2. it straight up looking more annoying to deal with... ahhh 😑
This is going to be such a Z tier league/event, the fact GGG even considered a completely random endgame after pivoting away from that is a testimony into some of the leaks going around that GGG has been poorly run the last couple years since Chris stepped back.
This will just be nonsense that they want to add to POE2 and so they will get you guys to test it in POE1, I won't be taking part.
That feel when all your idols roll gwennen is more common essentially bricking them.
The mapping passive tree was solid and really let you tailor the game how you wanted. Not sure I like this being rng on drops.
This system seems great once you have a setup, and absolutely horrendous before that. If progression quests offers some basic non-rng idols (with like kirac, mechanic blockers and map tier chance) it might be fine, otherwise this utterly ruins progression.
I'm not against the idea of having that in a event but I really don't want that to become core. the Atlas Tree is the best addition in the game for a lot of years.
If they want POE2 to be better than POE 1, they should improve POE 2, not make POE 1 worse
yeah.... don't know how I feel about this one... These are tradable so we know we are gonna be in a rich get richer situation pretty quick. Would you rather sell your idol for 3 div or have a 50% chance at ROI under 6 hours? So you'll have a decent but unoptimized setup where the ballers will be able to instant switch to optimized loadouts for the activity that turns out to be outperforming at the moment. Their "trees" will cost 200 times yours and be 8 times better. So you reaaaaaallly need to play sweaty at league start and pick a very safe build, log a decent number of hours and follow the "meta" like a hound. If you don't do this at the beginning you'll watch the rest of the league pass you by, being gated out of the fun stuff that will indubitably dominate in a rushed update with so many deep changes. So they forced us to choose one of these 2 camps even more than usual : fun league start, try out the new stuff, no need to 100% perma sweat but then fun fizzles out quickly or meta slave tryhard start to soar above the sheeple and play fun broken stuff later
holy man, this is a special event thats void, cant you just have fun and not care about useless things?
This looks awesome! Can't wait to try it out!
I was hyped for phrecia.... I am no longer hyped for phrecia. Atlas is literally the best thing in poe1
I’m excited tbh. Just something different to dive into I’m here for it.
So this is what is planned for PoE2?
Atlas tree is like PoE's profession system, it's so awesome to customize the content you want to play both based on your personal interests or coming up with currency making strategies.
I don't see what problems they are trying to solve with relic systems -- but whatever they are, I feel like they're adding more problems than solving. Pushing more power to trade, especially when Atlas tree was used by players to customize how they could make currency for interacting with trade in the first place, bad; Tetris mechanics with different sized relics everytime you want to switch strategy, bad. Mental processing of reading and keeping track of all relics, bad; stash and relic micromanagement, bad; Most notably tho, is the first point, RNG system that uses trade which will just make the rich, richer. GGG should see Atlas tree for what it is, a deterministic profession system. So if they want to move away from Atlas tree, they need to make sure new format is also a deterministic profession/farming system. This is going to hurt SSF or players who try to minimize their interaction with trade even more.
The current system with atlas + scarabs for users to customize the end game is so well done they seriously need to tread carefully. Perhaps alternative would be atlas tree jewel sockets, or use this system to replace scarabs. But again, I don't see which problems of the current atlas + scarab systems they're trying to solve, so...
If respec is still an issue with the 3 Atlas load outs, then give us a couple more. Changing load outs is gonna be worse than respec given the Tetris mini game. And I never felt like there weren't enough exciting drops for PoE1...
Put quite simply, GGG has been moving player power out of deterministic modes (e.g., passive points) and into random modes (e.g., items) for a few years now, or at least that has been their stated design direction.
I'm pretty sure that the 'problem' that they are trying to solve with this system is following this design philosophy above. And I believe that they follow this design philosophy because they, somehow, believe that this will help player retention and, somehow, therefore help their sales.
@NemisCassander what's next, the character's passive tree? /s
@@bystander85 I wouldn't put it past them, at this point, honestly. If you look at PoE2, that's effectively what they did: moved power out of the tree and placed it on gear.
I don't think they'll remove the character passive tree, but doing as they've done in PoE2 is... pretty likely, IMO.
thats an L for me, poe atlas passive tree is masterpiece craft your own adventure, this is rng fiesta.. UNLESS there are some really craazy modifiers we dont know about
I dont want to keep testing stuff for PoE2. We all know this atlas change is going to be implemented like shit. More trading, less freedom, more micromanagement. You already know the good mods are going to be RARE and hard to compile. Im getting graveyard flashbacks. GGG does not learn from success. Players who arent super involved with trading/researching, or who want to SSF will have a complete dumpster endgame.
They better increase Kirac mission proc after map completion because without speccing into him you're not getting any Kirac missions at all. It's like 2% or 4% i can't remember but it's really REALLY low. On the other hand, you are not going to be concerned with completing Atlas asap because you don't farm the points anymore. Unless the blocks in this inventory are going to clear as you complete maps, similarly how they do in Sanctum.
In the end this will play similarly to Atlas skill tree, but with some extra steps to it (such as trading for better idols). And this will produce some wild combinations with scarabs, I can see players stacking idols from one league mechanic to produce effects that are much greater than currently possible. Early mapping is going to be quite janky though, as you won't be able to get any league mechanics chance up. I was able to have 100% chance of Delirium or Ritual with just about 30 atlas points, as those chance nodes have been greatly buffed in 3.24.
cute... now i have no reason to try new ascendacies, it looks disgusting
another tab filling stuff we got to min max
Sorting these will be nightmare :/
Good think I have quad tabs but at this point I need Octatabs with ability to zoom LOL
Octa would be 8 normal tabs. I'm sure you mean 9 (3x3) or 16 (4x4).
Can't wait to be annoyed that it's a weighted tier system and that the most important/best mods have the lowest weight. And then some guy drops a perfect 4 strongbox mod all T1 idol and lists it for a mirror and it rots the entire league
There are only a couple of idol examples, but t looks like idol mods are exclusive along their associated league - so you wouldn't find an idol that has 4 Breach mods for example.
Seems to be but might also just be prefix and suffix exclusive IE you can maybe have a breach prefix and a breach suffix on 1 idol, but not 2 prefixes. Since these are magic and rare i assume the mods are separated into prefixes and suffixes as usual
the atlas passive tree is 90% of what makes POE fun after 10 years, losing it is a HUGE issue for me. this announcement killed any hype I had for the new ascendancies. early map progression and map sustain early stages of t16 mapping will be very difficult I think.
We all love the atlas tree but its solved, theres not really any hard choices for veteran players, id much rather something new thats worse than just the same thing every league.
@@99range92def "solved" what does that even mean? are you just trying to sound smart? It has a purpose, player agency.
This should be implemented somehow while in conjunction with the atlas passive tree. I like the idea. But I hate the idea of not having the atlas passive tree.
cant have any of those poe 2 newbies getting a taste of a well designed end game and atlas. gotta fk it up, im scared for 3.26 now tbh
They should give us the option to choose between the atlas skill tree and the idol one upon opening a map, this new system alone will otherwise drive a portion of players away from the event
I am really friggin looking forward to the new system. Its also great they dont actually lose charges like in legacy league. This is gonna be amazing
the good idols, with the strogboxes, looks to me to be 2x2 item, so we can fit only 4!
this is interesting but i lowkey wish they had just given us infinite delve, or infinite heist
Infinite heist won't be back. I like heist and thought that event was a failure.
Delve would have been fine - I'm a bit sick of Endless Delve but lots of people haven't had a chance to play it, and it's ~15-25 hours of fun once.
So I'm not the only one who wants endless heist back...
Totally disagree. I'm actually more hyped about this event than I've been for a league in a while. Re-doing a past event with known solutions would be incredibly boring
people really missing the point and not understanding how juiced those percentages are. insane ceiling for a 1 month event, excited to grind it out and set up something crazy.
Watchstones had some insane juice we still don't see to this day. Its not a matter of the juice, thats not what poeple are anxious about. Its the fact that the base system, in their minds, sucks ass...at least compared to the tree.
We know this from watch stones. we know this from poe2. We learned with the atlas tree that its actually really important and fun for people to have a fairly deterministic method of getting to do the content they want with a reasonable amount of juice within a short time frame. No one wants to have to farm and drop or buy scores and scores of relics so that they can do the content they want. No one wants to have to spend 7-14 days acquiring all that just to have the freedom to swap between content. For most players this isn't a game meant to be played for 3 months at a time, and even GGG knows and states that. So when they add a system like this that slows player progression down a ton, when players only play for 2-4 weeks at a time, it makes it feel like you aren't getting anywhere.
People aren't missing the point about busted juice, because that's not the point. That can literally happen with any system imaginable. They could literally just add that juice on top of the atlas for the event, if that was the point. Its not the point. juice is just balance. its the MECHANIC/DESIGN of "contented gated by RNG drops and trade side economy and extra tedious work and filling up stash space x1000 compared to the current system". its not the design of "THIS NODE/AFFIX IS BUSTED". Both systems can, in theory, achieve cool and wacky game states and have "busted" effects on maps. But the path to getting there is very distinct between the two, and we already learned that the atlas tree path feels 1000x better.
I am not even personally effected, because I almost exclusively do out of map content for the majority of my time in most leagues. And I can see this clear as day. If there is something cool Ill just buy the relics, just like I bought scarabs and whatnot when I wanted to do mapping things in previous leagues. But its gonna suck to have to buy more. I DID do quite a bit of mapping in necro settlers, and I can tell you that league had some fun shit happen (due to the accessibility and ease of completely swapping around atlas trees) that would have been IMPOSSIBLE to adapt on the fly to under this proposed relic system. I can't think of a single upside other than "relics will be chase items that are fun to drop"...at the expense of your entire experience and time. even the "you dont have to respec ever again" thing is not an upside when the alternative is "stashes and stashes of different relics, sometimes which you might want to share between setups, and you are CONSTNATLY swapping in and out for tiny upgrades of 1% here and 2% there"
I can imagine a mixture of atlas tree and the idols would be very fun.
Also at the beginning players wont really notice much effect from the idols, but there will be a turning-point where it gets a lot stronger.
Also the endgame-ceiling for map mechanics is much much higher i think.
I mean, change the atlas tree to simply bias the mods that can drop on your idols, and you'd be 90% there, probably.
I remember someone from ggg saying, that they want players to make decisions and compromises instead of being on autopilot. So I could see how the atlas tree got bit too much of "pick and forget" for their liking. That'll going to be a painful quad stash junk drawer management, if you hoard them while having no idea if you need them for the next round of fomo.
Terrible design honestly, no tab for it = quad tabs required. unmodifiable = hoard = even more quad tabs. + it's going to be extremely tedious selling + buying + pricing, not looking forward to this whatsoever.
I think a lot of people here are complaining for the sake of complaining but you bring up a good point, ggg really do love introducting 100's of stash filing items to updates.
@@99range92defthrow in random bullshit “effects” that youre supposed to avoid but “its burning tar not burning ground”
the whole endgame fun was it being deterministic from the get go.
This system depends on drop rate and mod magnitude swings. If I can get 8 relics a map and 7.5 of them are trash, that's garbage and if you get one every 3 maps and it's not strong enough that is also garbage. I am fine with it for the event and it is most likely some poe 2 endgame bs experiment in the end.
IMO the right rarity is about the same as Heist contracts (1 per 1000 items or so). Early on you just need to get a few of them that do anything at all to get rolling; perfection comes later.
Or maybe not perfection, but 2 relevant mods on each.
Would have been better in addition to current tree, or if those idols were jewels on the atlas tree.
only bad thing bout this phrecia event is its only 1 month , all this sounds like its gonna be really fun
Looks like maybe they would only make this a void event if there were some experimental crafting added to it, so don't expect to see anything like that. I could see farming ritual with 15 free rerolls being possible, since the time investment would be quite good I think?
it is interesting, it will make changing what you farm faster, if you want to farm more that 3 strategies. I still think the atlas is better, but will be fun to experiment for the duration of the event. Seems way better than the atlas from PoE2 tbh, but I'm sure that will improve in time
Wtf is GGG doing? Pretty sure most people that love poe1 are bored of poe2 and are dying to get back into it but now they take out one of the best things about it? I was hyped but now not so sure.
It's probably going to be affliction level broken with 40 odd slots
Unmodifiable
This so much this^ please let us modify it GGG
But do you really want to alt spam them in exchange for way worse odds when finding them
I guess you can either have them unmodifiable, and it's a potential upgrade when they drop for longer, or allow them to be modified, and you can craft / buy a near perfect one much sooner, but then the chase stops sooner as well. The later prevents excessive item bloat, the former extends the grind.
@@Kobe005 just chaos spam for the most broken things and all the things coming from it will be essentially dirt cheap - which would mean people will go to the next strats that are less broken and the same will happen and eventually there wont be anything worthwhile to farm cause it was made so easy by being able to roll until you see the modifier you want. Not to mention that buying such things will also be in chaos orbs, maybe divines if its an insane roll, somewhat like jewels and cluster jewels. Although I am SSF player so might be wrong about that.
@iamyukkithesnowman9178 if these were rollable, they seem very similar to trying to roll jewels, so standard crafting strats would probably follow suit (transmute + alt spam until you get the two most desirable, regal for a decent 3rd mod, ex and pray).
I don't think we'd run into the problem of there not being anything worthwhile to farm in general since that didn't even happen in affliction league, the league with super inflated amounts of currency in the economy, but I could see the costs of common crafts dropping drastically a few weeks into the event.
What would be cool is if you can use the Atlas tree as per usual, but the moment you put an idol in, it disabled the tree and used the idols. This would allow (a) MASSIVE testing, and (b) map progression while building up an idol load out.
In a month long event, what that would result in is some content creator would post an "Idols are broken" video and everyone would only use idols for the first few days, and then another would post an "Idols are useless" video, and then everyone would stop testing the system. If this was a long-term thing, maybe you'd want a toggle, but if the goal is to gauge how people like it and what they can do with it, the ability to have the entire community suddenly opt out because a video told them to would be a worse choice.
This isn't ment to be a test. So A) isn't part of the picture. This is old content that never made it on the live servers because they already noticed how bad it is. It's just ment to give PoE1 players a new league without having to spent ressources on it.
@@izaruburs9389I wouldn't write it off as not being a test
Interesting. Wasn't sold on this but now depending on the dates will definitely be giving it a go. Only problem is we are going away camping for 10 days in April so if its then I'll miss out on a 3rd of the league.
i dont understand why are they trying to change slash fix somthing thats not broken and doesnt need to be fixed
they arent, this is just experimenting during a special event.
For better or worse, this will make the league even more interesting. Cant wait! Still going ssf
i just love they keep trying things. as a mid gamer im always down to learn new stuff
Really hoping they make these things somewhat target farmable. Like if you run expedition content you're going to get expedition focused relics.
Should been on top of normal atlas
The part I liked the most is to "push the boundaries" of the current atlas. It will prolly make focus farm a lot more powerful. Can't wait for the datamine.
It will feel weird not having to complete the atlas in the early game and just focus on pushing tiers. Lets hope altars unique relics aren't turbo rare.
I am now hyped
I feel like the endgame atlas mapping tree is one of the best parts of current POE. I dont think trading it for some completely RNG idols is a good system. Does this also make map completion worthless? If I don't get an atlas skill point for finishing a corrupted red map for example, why should I ever run one? While I don't think itll really work out, I'm still excited to try it and I would be happy to be wrong and enjoy the idol system.
This is bad design. More management and more randomness. This is not relying on any skill. Only luck. I hate those decisions. I am really like REALLY hoping this is not their vision. I don't want to trow away a game where I spent thousands of hours and dollars.
P.S. For future brave warriors comments. I am saying this in advance. Like for experimenting ok it is understandable. But I have my doubts cause of recent half year changes and explanations from GGG.
It's an event, it's supposed to be different from the base game, from base leagues... I understand people wanted 3.26 to play a new fresh league. This is not that, this is an event, just like infinite delve, or infinite heist. That being said, i'm happy to try the new ascendancies and this new endgame mapping system.
idc if they suck I just want some fresh PoE1 content
The blueprint thing is really good if you really want alberons or something from heist in SSF
I think experimental stuffs are very interesting. Its not guaranteed to be fun but its a good way for them to test and revisit scrapped ideas.
What would you think if this becomes a new model for ggg to lengthen each league moving forward, to give them time to alternate between poe1 and poe2.
E.g. 3.26 releases, 3 months later we get an experimental league (3.265) with experimental unbalanced stuff
idols should replace scarabs instead, then we'd have a perfect system. this is the worst of the worst.
I could see the lack of stable progression and ability to select the encounters you want feeling potentially very bad in some situations, while the turbo endgame trade enjoyers could be printing mirrors with the right setup.
I can only hope these things have a high enough drop rate that you'll be able to semi-reliably put together something cohesive even if you're an SSF player or not an avid trader.
As much as I love the atlas tree, the idols seem like a potentially fun change of pace as long as it is just for one league.
I'm still hoping that they extend it to 2-3 months though.
Yea, crop rotation on T17 will be GIGAcrazy with right idols. IF there are enough so you get close to 100% on saving the crop it will be stoopid levels of harvest juice almost every time.
They are trying to import waystones from poe2 to replace atlas talents? From SSF POV, seems rather random.
Great, put sanctum in my Atlas progression. Well, more necro settlers... :|
For some reasons they can cook up some system now anyway, go figure just takes a bit of rage.
Not sure if this effort is worth doing for a one month challenge but who knows might run longer still.
With this change i suspect the event has to be voided no ? Else stacking modifiers like reopened strongboxes or some crazy rogue exiles could print WAY too much shit. Imagine you can get 90% chance to reopen currency or diviners strongboxes ? Or harbinger bosses dropping 10 times the normal shards ? With something this experimental its basically guaranteed somebody will find a way to print mirrors.
well unless the experimental ascendancies were going core, it's 100% certain this is a void league
Yeah some 1%er that would have already printed mirrors while the not 1% are going to suffer
At first sight, this seemed extremely "bad" for lack of a better word. However if you think about it, this will affect EVERYONE and therefore the economy. It will force you to adapt to the idols you drop instead of just comfortably planning around, potentially pushing us to try new mechanics. I'm all for it honestly !
Interesting
Lots of other people have voiced their concerns or observations for poe2 endgame . .
I kinda got sick of PoE2 endgame, i didnt even do the pinnacle bosses, and was looking towards PoE1.
when i found put there was no league i was actually surprised. I trusted GGG would make good on their impossible promise. Then i saw the event and thought: "hey that might be fun i missed the atlas tree and PoE1 endgame"
Now the idols have left me feeling like it will be like PoE2 engame where i have to do a bunch of maps i dont wanna do.
idk, i just wanted to play PoE1.
Player agency to engage with content is sacrosanct to me. It's the difference between wanting to waste your time playing games and having a game waste your time instead. The core gameplay loop is plenty exciting as is, and I'm sick and tired of the slot machine mechanics they keep peddling league after league.
Thankfully it's a one-month event focused on experimentation, so I'm willing to try it before I knock it. But I will be incredibly disappointed if this replaces the Atlas Tree in 3.26. I'd sooner say goodbye to Faustus than our current version of the endgame. AND I REALLY LIKE FAUSTUS 😐
I think this was an experiment they programmed in 3.17 testing then pivoted away from.
I said on official board... but interesting change for a short term event. But almost certainly worse than what we already have.
Would like to see "jewel" slots added to atlas for extra customization.
Feels like getting maps dropped and tiered up will be a bother since we can't just rush for those points to start.
Early maps, rough, end game maps, cracked
Its an event, people already crying as if atlas passive has been deleted forever.
It's the only PoE 1 content in almost 7 months, and for the foreseeable future. People being mad it looks like garbage is entirely reasonable.
@@MikeSakaru I actually feel like the instant writing off of this even based of the first thing people aren't entirely sure about is a bit much, we haven't even remotely theory crafted setup, and yet everyone is somehow already sure that it's going to be worse than the atlas, for the sole reason that new = scary. It's a fun short even based on trying to change everything you know about the game, wish people were more open for change when it doesn't impact the normal game. Have some fun!
@@nomadraider People are open to changes. It's the part where you remove arguably the best part of the game to put in a hit or miss mechanic is what people are mad about. They could've just added this on top of the existing atlas tree. If it's good, people gonna enjoy it. If it's bad, the atlas tree will make sure people will still enjoy the game to some extent.
@@nomadraider It's gonna be worse. I want you to think. The atlas tree allows you to build Endgame progression purely from finishing Maps. Normally during early maps, the biggest problem is Map sustain, so obviously players spec into Kirac and shaping. Once you get good enough sustain you then try to pair it up with a good early league mechanic to either help you with leveling or currency. Players even plan out their Atlas Tree based on what build they are playing and how effective it is on running it. You don't even need to get all your void stone to have a good functional Early Game farming strategy. Beast/Essence or Expedition/Blight. You can do all of this just from purely progressing your map.
This new system is entirely RNG and literally rely on trading to make sure that you can at least progress in a normal matter. It doesn't take a pure genius to see that having a choice on how you progress is 10x better than having to pray to RNGesus to drop the idol that can help you in your progression.
Map sustain Idol will skyrocket in prices during the few weeks and then normalize after a couple of weeks. Those that were able to take advantage of it will be far ahead of the progression while the rest will be scrounging. They did not test this enough, this will entirely be broken for some while agonizing for others. People seriously forgot the whole Divine Rat abuse in Necro league and the abominable Tumbling Wealth in NecroSettler where it immediately killed that rerun in just a week. It greatly damaged the economy. At least with those it's purely Gear progression that is hindered while this will cause a hinder to map progression.
This new system will either skyrocket the few who gets lucky in their Idol drops or gimp their progression by dropping unhelpful Idols.
@@nomadraiderits going to be so tedious...having to look through all those drops just to see what you actually dropped is hideous. Its just so cumbersome...absolute bummer
Yay, now I farm to rng the content that I want, so I'll have to make a character for that so that I can get the content and I'll need a second character to focus on that then I'll trade to fill up all my idols so that I can finally play the content I want by the end of the league ...
Or I spend so much time on the damn trade site.
Whatever ... It's probably fine. I just need to focus on the new build opportunities.
I know doomers can't fathom the idea that this is simply a "whacky idea that never made it off the brainstorm board" (GGG prefaced this) and everything is a conspiracy to test for PoE2, but I think this is genuinely just a crazy idea they came up with. Clearly not a lot of thought went into it, certainly nowhere near as much as would have if we were actually testing a planned feature. As long as the idols drop in abundance and the variation isn't too high, it should hopefully be easy enough to reach the same floor we're used to, but also a much higher potential ceiling - could be interesting!
Removing Atlas is a real bad move. GGG seem hellbent on making terrible design choices constantly
lets hope ggg lower/cut the cost on private leagues if they want to sell that concept so much for poe 1...
So was that video they put out just an out is season April fools joke?
I already like that more than towers in poe2, still a huge downgrade from the atlas passive tree.
oof, I was almost excited for that strongbox mod but it doesn't seem like a stackable mod :D
It is worded the same as some of the nodes we have on the atlas tree, which does stack.
Why is this not running alongside the map atlas?? Give us more harder monsters and density, not less...