Translation - They flew their jet into the ground and are dead. They likely had zero indication that they were in trouble until the moment of death. No ejection, no beacon means the bodies are part or the wreckage/debris field and it's likely a small, hard to locate area if they drove the jet into the ground. RIP
Mount Ranier is 14,410 ft and they were flying at 6,000 ft. I was Army, not Air Force or Navy, but I don't understand why they wouldn't fly above the peak. Maybe they were supposed to be flying parallel? Doesn't make sense with the limited info we have.
That’s Not True, Kevin. A jet like that has radar altimeters as well as terrain awareness abilities (Ground Proximity Warning Systems) that would be alerting the crew of their position and altitude in relation to the surrounding terrain and giving the pilot (and probably the NFO in the back) warnings when they got within a certain designated proximity and closure rate with terrain.
@@marlow769 As of now, there's been no information that the two pilots reported anything wrong. It will be interesting to find out what truly happened. If it ends up being pilot error, you know the DEI part will come up, especially if they're LGBT and/or were highlighted on International Women's Day.
There's a smoking hole in the ground where the pilots flew into the terrain. They hit at the 6,000 foot MSL level of rapidly rising terrain up to 14,000 feet. This happens when the pilots are scud running at 6,000 feet and all of a sudden the clouds blend visually into the terrain and the aircraft crashes into the terrain. 🥸
They flew one of the most sophisticated combat aircraft, was one of the best radar sets in the world into the only thing that could’ve hurt them given where they were flying;. A 14,000 foot dormant volcano.
Sounds like the same scenario how Dean Paul Martin flew his Air Force F-4 into the side of the San Bernardino Mountains in 1987. Both Martin and his rear seater were killed. Martin was the son of entertainer Dean Martin.
True, however the Growler is a much more sophisticated aircraft than the F-4. It can fly in any weather conditions even the darkest of nights and extreme weather conditions. Its radar is state of the art. If I had to pick one plane to fly in with this type of incident it would be this one.
@@socaljarhead7670 Yet ANOTHER "Genius" who thinks he knows something after "flying" a simulator in his basement. You don't know what you are talking about smart guy. I wasn't "comparing" the aircraft oby wan, ok? I was pointing out that the Growler was a much more sophisticated aircraft in that it was built to fly low level missions as well as support other aircraft in their missions as well. This aircraft can "see" ground terrain while flying. The only one that is "asinine" here is YOU. Stop using the Trump side of your brain and use the Harris side instead, ok. You made a fool out of yourself with your asinine comment and should do your homework or keep quiet, ok.
Used to hike up around those areas, would have a fair amount of sightings of the aircraft maneuvering low over the trees, close enough you could see the pilot's head turning inside the cockpit as they flew by.
I grew up around the Puget Sound between the Olympic Mountains to the West and the Cascade range to the East flying around in any aircraft is alway sketchy no matter how good you are, weather and visibility in conjunction with many other hazards makes any pilot stay concentrated. Unfortunately, however these mountains have claimed a fair share of military and civilian aircraft alike from as far back as World War two and a bit before unfortunately I've seen my fair share of crashes when I was a kid.
I once found the shroud of a Navy ejection seat on a mountain in the north Cascades. I wrote down what may have been i.d numbers on the equipment and contacted the Navy. They denied any plane crashed in that area of the Cascades.Makes me wonder about truth and competence of the administration of these search efforts
The US Army lost a U-21 on Feb 10, 1977. It apparently flew into the side of Mt. Illiamna, Alaska while flying at 10,000 ft - a CFIT event. We searched for 2 weeks, but found no traces, because of poor visibility, fresh snow, and just poor weather conditions. To the best of my knowledge, no trace of that aircraft has been found. Hopefully, they will have better luck finding this Growler.
A friend of mine, John F, was looking for an F-4 that crashed on a low-level mission in Alaska. His accident investigation board found a satellite photo that showed a straight line carved in the snow. At the end of that straight line in the snow was the F-4. He went to the aircraft and found the two pilots still strapped int their seats but frozen solid. 🥶
It does sound like CFIT, and/or loss of situational awareness. The wreckage will be found, but not much hope for the crew. My thoughts are with the families affected.
There is a locator in the ejection seat and on the pilots vest. The seat beacon is actuated upon ejection. If both aren't active......you can imagine why.
The Navy has flown growler and iron hand missions through this area for decades. Their training missions are some of the most dangerous in the military. It's miraculous that there aren't more mishaps, although our pilots are the best trained in the world. Sorry, Israel.
An EA-6B “Prowler” crashed back in 2013 I believe. 3 perished, 1 seat (ECMO) was empty. The investigation conclude it was pilot error (accelerated stall). All 3 were US Naval Academy graduates, while conducting tactical formation at high speed.
I mean they flew into a mountain and despite having some of the world’s best equipment didn’t even realize there was a mountain in front of them. I wouldn’t call these pilots all that great at their former jobs
I've been backpacking all over that region. It's incredibly rugged wilderness. There is no place for a plane to land anywhere around there. It is surely wrecked. Hopefully the occupants had an option to eject and they are currently camping under their parachute waiting for the cloud cover to lift, thinking up a witty quip for when they finally get rescued.
Bumping Lake and Rimrock Lake are used for attack training a lot. I’ve been on the lake when they fly so low they would make a wake on the water. This time of year the water is low, tall snags are exposed on the lake.
well they had to have terrain avoidance system .. they must have been practicing knap of the earth training.. as a Cirrus pilot I have observed this in MOA's planes flying 100 feet off the deck. One time in Norther CA i was fishing on the Eel river and here comes a f 15 screaming through the canyon scared the crap out of me.. crazy flying.
I was fishing with my Dad when a B-52 came overhead at 200'. My Dad, a WWII Veteran said: Son, Flying a B-52 that low doesn't make any sense. If I had a good Deer Rifle, I could have brought it down. Later, after several crashes, they stopped flying B-52's on low level missions.
If they were on a low level training route, they are typically flown at 500 feet and 420 knots. Look away for half a second and it can be all over. No idea if they were on a low level but that would be one of the more dangerous training flights.
@@57Jimmy I flew all those routes back in the day in a EA-6B. I forgot the rules but with say a 10 degree negative flight path angle you probably only have a second or two to correct before impacting terrain.
@@scottw5315 The Navigator/WSO/GIB has his hands full on a low-level mission. He has to keep close watch on time and headings as well as keep his head in the radar to read the terrain and make sure to be at the required altitudes. Any lack of diligence requires an immediate climb to the ESA - Emergency Safe Altitude. In this case, that would have been 16,000 feet, not 6,000 feet.
@@jamesburns2232 It depends VR or IR. On a VR it's all visual, if you smack a mountain it's on you. Someone F'd up and given the picture of fatty, my money is on her. The other looked like she could hold her own in a jet squadron at a basic level.
Why has it taken SO VERY LONG (as of 22 Oct. 24) for details to trickle out ?? It's troublesome because this expert states that when there's a crash, the military " . . . goes all out!"
It dies not go all out on a media blitz. All out to find and rescue the crew. Talking on the TV does not help find crash sites or rescue downed aircrews.
With all the sophisticated electronics, do these planes not have the ground sensing “terrain, terrain, pull up” warning we hear in airliner CVRs when they pick up the pieces?
Same squadron, newer aircraft. They started with the Grumman EA-6B Prowler back in the 1970's, and now fly the newer Boeing EA-18G Growler. The pictures in this video show them carrying the same ALQ-99 jammer pods (with the little propeller on the front) that were carried by the Prowlers.
I would hope the military mountain rescue as well as NPS Mountain Rangers and the local professional rescue and guide services are on the ground helping to search where possible and safe on Rainier. Some big crevasse fields there.
they really need all personnels should have formations over there and police call-like missions to look for vital signs of life,its crucial esp if injured/loss of blood/cold extremities/survival
I would see military aircraft from time to time while fishing at Riffe Lake, but the coolest one was a c-17 that buzzed the dams. I know they trained out there to avoid dense populations in case one went down, sad to hear one did.
no flight path of the missing aircraft...while the P-8 flight path is present...they are probably not alive....and we will probably never hear or see the real reason for the crash like the P-8 crash in Hawaii we have seen little and I have 2000 hours on ASW aircraft the older P-3
Barbers Point no doubt. I remember the P-3s were there back in the 80s. I flew C-130s and we would fly milk runs to Hickam or stopover enroute to Midway, Wake, Guam, Kwaj or the P.I.. But we also flew into Hilo and Kane' ohe Bay. We flew into Moffett Field too. I could not believe how many P-3s were there. There were maybe as many P-3s there as there were C-130s at Little Rock AFB(the C-130 training base). The one time I was on a P-3 was at Lajes Field in the Azores. I always wanted to go inside a P-3 and we were waiting on the ramp due to a squawk with our a/c and a P-3 crew was out at their airplane. I asked them if I could look around and see the inside. It was interesting and I learned a little about ASW. It was interesting seeing the sonabuoy ejector rack and that 'big ass' scope in the back. That airplane with upsidedown T-56A engines also had a much nicer galley and bunk layout. The co-pilot and I swapped patches. They had the best patch I ever saw, even to this day. It was about 6" long and was a swordfish with its bill piercing a submarine. It was not round or square or triangular, it was shaped like a swordfish. I am sure you probably know this squadron. The last time I saw that patch was about 25 years ago, it was a box with the rest of my 'trash'. Good luck and fair winds and following seas.
what kind of report is that they found plane but couldnt say if they were ejected, couldnt see the seat? if present, or burning ashes?or aybe its another plane they just saw???not a credible witness
In this case, I would likely point to an instrument / electrical failure of some sort. January of 1968, our squadron lost an RF-4 into the side of a mountain just NW of MCAS El Toro. Very similar to this. It was determined in the investigation that there was a loss of electrical power within 10 minutes of take off. The EF-18 Naval aviator in the back seat is the ECMO. That position controls the jamming missions, and does not have flight controls in the back seat. The pilot is no rookie with quite a few launch and recoveries from a carrier, which is no small accomplishment. The final outcome of this may have some inkling in the end, but this is not the first place I would jump.
All of us who live on the east side of Rainier know they zoom through the canyons daily. This was an accident directly into the ground somehow. There’s zero way the pilots are alive.
Was there a wave point located near the mountain pilots use during flight. How do you fly into a mountain. Probably sight seeing. I hope I’m wrong but this is gonna get someone demoted or let go.. Unless it was mechanical, and I seriously doubt that. Preying for everyone involved
If they had ejected their ejection seat beacon would have gone off. EFA18 do not have terrain following radar but I believe the standard F18 does. So it’s extremely important they stay VFR. The back seater NFO is trained more in electronic countermeasures. Not dogfighting or Low Levels. I have heard rumors this was a flight of 2 aircraft and the wingman aborted due to the weather
I saw John Nance in the thumbnail and wanted to see what he had to say for old times' sake. RIP to the pilots and many thanks for your service. You've earned your wings.....
I've seen photoes of the hole one of our F-104s dug after the pilot, Milt Thompson, ejected. There were absolutely no airplane parts visible, just a sandy pit. Admittedly, mountains are harder to excavate than the desert floor, but there's a lot of energy there and disturbing the terrain is unavoidable. Starting a rockslide, for example, that buries the wreckage, is possible. If the crew ejected, the winds over the mountain could have have carried them a long way away. Although with CFIT (Controlled Flight Into Terrain), as this retired pilot suspects, there's no warning and no chance to eject. Commercial aircraft, like airliners, have TCAS (Terrain Collision Avoidance System) that can tell the pilot to Pull Up, Pull Up. I think it uses radar, but my expertise is mostly with high-performance aircraft, not airliners. Military aircraft are sometimes flown NOE (Nap Of the Earth) at very low altitude and they have terrain-following control systems with radar, but an F/A-18 Growler wouldn't fly NOE. That's more for bombers like the B-1B trying to stay below the radar and sneak up on a ground target.
I'm going through all these comments, and if anybody mentions dei, they are being reported. These two aviators were highly trained, experienced and combat decorated warriors.
I don’t think the pilot being a woman has much to do with it. It’s a skills thing and sometimes the safest pilot ever makes a mistake, sometimes deadly. I’ve seen it lots of times. Probably not mechanical either.
“Haven’t found the plane , any idea why it’s taking them so long” 🤦♂️. Apparently the reporter had never left the city. That’s rugged , steep heavily forested terrain. What a fool.
Correct but it's easier to both explain and to understand, for those who don't "get it", if you just say "2 pilots". They're both aircrew, so in the eyes of most lay people they're "pilots"
@cherifbar yes and its not just semantics. In the US AirForce they used to use two Pilots in F-4s but the USN did not they used a pilot and RIO. I like that you were specific. Different services, different nomenclature
They never find many people in the woods, even when they aren’t trying to hide. The Cascades and Coast mountain ranges are incredibly rugged and difficult to get to in spots. Between Oregon and Alaska many aircraft have disappeared over the years, nothing mysterious,just rugged. A twin engine Lockheed disappeared around Vancouver BC and remained lost for decades only to be found a few miles from the city center, they could see the pilot’s house from the crash site!
Pretty obvious the pilot was hotdogging it. This was not part of a pre planned route, or the wreckage, as small as it would be, would be on a known path. So, this was not an aircraft malfunction, totally avoidable most likely. Sad.
Good journalistic questions. SUPERB carefully constructed gubmnt b.s.double-speak by Mr.Nance! Tell us nothing, fill the dead-air space w/soft word-shuttle/reshuffle. We already know that "it could be anything" that caused the disappearance.I WON'T be your partner @ next dance, Sir!
@waynemanning3262 I went on a hike to panoramic hike at rainier over the weekend, snow/ice is completely melted. The only snow/ice there's left is at the peak of rainier
@@DOKUS3I really! Lots still on Baker. Finding a high speed crash even without snow is difficult, I hope they are successful so the families can have closure, I had a co-worker whose brother crashed they think by Mount Waddington in BC, never found.
By the way, for those of you that think this situation just snuck up on them without warning and took their lives, think again. A jet like that has radar altimeters as well as terrain awareness abilities (Ground Proximity Warning Systems) that would be alerting the crew of their position and altitude in relation to the surrounding terrain and giving the pilot (and probably the NFO in the back) warnings when they got within a certain designated proximity and closure rate with terrain. So, if they did run into the ground/rising terrain, unless all of those systems had failed AND they had lost situational awareness…well, you know my next thought.
@@cmhansonI suppose it's a misogynistic comment that you're going to make because you're some kind of an asshole. Now I'm going to report this comment because you are a harassing and bullying
@wendellthomas464 well, I can tell you're a leftist because you decided to attack my intelligence and my spelling. Tell me, what happened to the first female navy fighter pilot? Oh yeah, she flew her fighter straight into the stern of an aircraft carrier. You see, I like all these DEI pilots because they always do two things. 1. Something inept that usually kills them and in the process... 2. Prove me right.
@@wendellthomas464 let me give you the opposite of a diversity hire. The Tuskegee Airmen. Yes, these black pilots were held back until The U.S. was soo desperate that they had to put them in a cockpit. These men were highly qualified but still they were denied pilot training. Most of them were already pilots and had degrees. But at that time putting a black man in a fighter was not something the army wanted to do. ...but when it was obvious that we needed every qualified pilot we could get our hands on they were eventually given the green light. their commanding officer was very interested in producing fighter pilots for the war effort but the man who was training them and signing off on that training decided to make it extremely difficult for them to ever become a fighter pilot. He put them through hell increasing every step in their training to the extreme. finally, the commanding officer demanded to know where his fighter pilots were. He found out the games the instructor had been playing with them which extended their training far too long and required much more than the school actually had in the curriculum. The commanding officer demanded that they be graduated immediately and put into a air wing. and yes, because they had the bar set soo high during training they excelled in everything they did in the air and became legendary. So you see, when you lower the bar and allow someone to graduate just to meet a quota for the sake of diversity they usually suck at what they do.
I so appreciate Mr. Nance’s experience that makes him so incredibly thoughtful and comprehensive in these situations. Either civil or military.
Prayers out for the crew.
No one will say it but I will . The crew was 2 women . Go figure .
John Nance has been around forever - as a fellow aviation pro, I always find on the mark with his commentary.
Translation - They flew their jet into the ground and are dead. They likely had zero indication that they were in trouble until the moment of death. No ejection, no beacon means the bodies are part or the wreckage/debris field and it's likely a small, hard to locate area if they drove the jet into the ground. RIP
Mount Ranier is 14,410 ft and they were flying at 6,000 ft. I was Army, not Air Force or Navy, but I don't understand why they wouldn't fly above the peak. Maybe they were supposed to be flying parallel? Doesn't make sense with the limited info we have.
That’s Not True, Kevin. A jet like that has radar altimeters as well as terrain awareness abilities (Ground Proximity Warning Systems) that would be alerting the crew of their position and altitude in relation to the surrounding terrain and giving the pilot (and probably the NFO in the back) warnings when they got within a certain designated proximity and closure rate with terrain.
@@marlow769 As of now, there's been no information that the two pilots reported anything wrong. It will be interesting to find out what truly happened.
If it ends up being pilot error, you know the DEI part will come up, especially if they're LGBT and/or were highlighted on International Women's Day.
@@grondhero1 pilot 1 electronic warfare officer.
woman drivers are problematicle.
Tragic for the families, the Navy and the Nation- 😔
This Is So very Sad These Two wonderful L
300 knots into the side of a mountain leaves very little.
There's a smoking hole in the ground where the pilots flew into the terrain. They hit at the 6,000 foot MSL level of rapidly rising terrain up to 14,000 feet. This happens when the pilots are scud running at 6,000 feet and all of a sudden the clouds blend visually into the terrain and the aircraft crashes into the terrain. 🥸
They flew one of the most sophisticated combat aircraft, was one of the best radar sets in the world into the only thing that could’ve hurt them given where they were flying;. A 14,000 foot dormant volcano.
And that shouldn’t have gotten them either.
They hit Pear Butte 50' below the summit.
The only thing worse than runway behind you is altitude above you. 🙃
They were flying at 6,000 feet, so Pear Butte must be 6,050' elevation. The only thing worse than runway behind you is altitude above you. 🙃
@jamesburns2232 Pear Butte is a little over 6,320 on the topo map. My crash info comes from the 1st rescuer to reach the site
Sounds like the same scenario how Dean Paul Martin flew his Air Force F-4 into the side of the San Bernardino Mountains in 1987. Both Martin and his rear seater were killed. Martin was the son of entertainer Dean Martin.
True, however the Growler is a much more sophisticated aircraft than the F-4. It can fly in any weather conditions even the darkest of nights and extreme weather conditions. Its radar is state of the art. If I had to pick one plane to fly in with this type of incident it would be this one.
Many don't know about this.
To compare a Growler to the F-4 that Deano crashed into Gorgonio is asinine.🤣
@@socaljarhead7670 Yet ANOTHER "Genius" who thinks he knows something after "flying" a simulator in his basement. You don't know what you are talking about smart guy. I wasn't "comparing" the aircraft oby wan, ok? I was pointing out that the Growler was a much more sophisticated aircraft in that it was built to fly low level missions as well as support other aircraft in their missions as well. This aircraft can "see" ground terrain while flying. The only one that is "asinine" here is YOU. Stop using the Trump side of your brain and use the Harris side instead, ok. You made a fool out of yourself with your asinine comment and should do your homework or keep quiet, ok.
@GeeBee909 Quit your kackling Harris didn't use her brain how do you think she took care of Willie Brown
Camped many times at Bumping Lake and pilots fly very close to terrain to get training.
They used to train Intruder crews up there. Low level attack stuff. Knarly terrain. 🙏
Used to hike up around those areas, would have a fair amount of sightings of the aircraft maneuvering low over the trees, close enough you could see the pilot's head turning inside the cockpit as they flew by.
I have hunted this area most of my life. It is very rugged and very romte with large areas with no roads
romte?
romte?
@@watchgoose *remote
@@steam-powereddolphin5449 spellchecker failed me, sorry
@@watchgoose Remote* obviously it was a typo. You donut.
I grew up around the Puget Sound between the Olympic Mountains to the West and the Cascade range to the East flying around in any aircraft is alway sketchy no matter how good you are, weather and visibility in conjunction with many other hazards makes any pilot stay concentrated. Unfortunately, however these mountains have claimed a fair share of military and civilian aircraft alike from as far back as World War two and a bit before unfortunately I've seen my fair share of crashes when I was a kid.
I once found the shroud of a Navy ejection seat on a mountain in the north Cascades. I wrote down what may have been i.d numbers on the equipment and contacted the Navy. They denied any plane crashed in that area of the Cascades.Makes me wonder about truth and competence of the administration of these search efforts
The US Army lost a U-21 on Feb 10, 1977. It apparently flew into the side of Mt. Illiamna, Alaska while flying at 10,000 ft - a CFIT event. We searched for 2 weeks, but found no traces, because of poor visibility, fresh snow, and just poor weather conditions. To the best of my knowledge, no trace of that aircraft has been found. Hopefully, they will have better luck finding this Growler.
there is a book, IIRC, that documents all the lost A/C on Rainier. Dozens. Sometimes they just vanish. Growler is a rather small one. : l
A friend of mine, John F, was looking for an F-4 that crashed on a low-level mission in Alaska. His accident investigation board found a satellite photo that showed a straight line carved in the snow. At the end of that straight line in the snow was the F-4. He went to the aircraft and found the two pilots still strapped int their seats but frozen solid. 🥶
It does sound like CFIT, and/or loss of situational awareness. The wreckage will be found, but not much hope for the crew. My thoughts are with the families affected.
Sounds grim. 💔
Excellent coverage. With so many people related to the aircraft industry around PNW they should always have expert interviews for these situations.
Fox affiliate in Seattle John Nance…their expert…just gave his assessment…6:50 pm Sunday. Not encouraging…
No they didn't eject. You would have heard their ELTs going off. It was CFIT unfortunately.
Plane’s been found with no sign of the crew at this time.
CFIT = Controlled Flight Into Terrain. DEI = Didn't Earn It. 🙄
Great insights from the expert-it's crucial to understand what went wrong in incidents like this.
Locator beacon will only go off after ejection, or if it survived the impact.
This is so shocking & sad.
Lack of locators is not a good sign
Scotland 1979,I was in a rescue team first on scene to a similar incident 😢It never leaves you.
I pray for all of involved, but I really hope it wasn't my friend's son, who flies Growlers out of Whidbey.
Noboy's "son"...female pilots.
Don't these have locators?
There is a locator in the ejection seat and on the pilots vest. The seat beacon is actuated upon ejection. If both aren't active......you can imagine why.
Praying for the crew.
Huh ?
Your prayers for the dead are u seless. Pray for living!😮
The Navy has flown growler and iron hand missions through this area for decades. Their training missions are some of the most dangerous in the military. It's miraculous that there aren't more mishaps, although our pilots are the best trained in the world. Sorry, Israel.
😆💯
I’m actually surprised the growlers missions are more dangerous it’s electronic warfare right? Very interesting.
An EA-6B “Prowler” crashed back in 2013 I believe. 3 perished, 1 seat (ECMO) was empty. The investigation conclude it was pilot error (accelerated stall). All 3 were US Naval Academy graduates, while conducting tactical formation at high speed.
I mean they flew into a mountain and despite having some of the world’s best equipment didn’t even realize there was a mountain in front of them. I wouldn’t call these pilots all that great at their former jobs
@@john8890
another armchair aviator weighs in exhibiting his distinct lack of knowledge. Thank you for informative insight.
I see these jets dive very close to Lake Curlew close to my dad’s house. Pretty awesome!
We would see the old n.g.'s flying around twisp and winthrop that would be below us on the valleys.
I've been backpacking all over that region. It's incredibly rugged wilderness. There is no place for a plane to land anywhere around there. It is surely wrecked. Hopefully the occupants had an option to eject and they are currently camping under their parachute waiting for the cloud cover to lift, thinking up a witty quip for when they finally get rescued.
Did you not watch the video? If the pilots ejected they would be in touch with recovery personnel almost instantly. They are dead. RIP
there are dozens of A/C still not found on that mountain. Lost for decades.
ejector seats automatically trigger a locator beacon. no beacon...
@@chadsmith7075ejection not ejector
@@justing42Thanks for the erection 👍✌️
🌚My bad, correction.😊
They found the jet but not the pilots. Strange that none of the news is covering this
CFIT at 300+ knots turns crew into pink clouds.
Bumping Lake and Rimrock Lake are used for attack training a lot. I’ve been on the lake when they fly so low they would make a wake on the water. This time of year the water is low, tall snags are exposed on the lake.
well they had to have terrain avoidance system .. they must have been practicing knap of the earth training.. as a Cirrus pilot I have observed this in MOA's planes flying 100 feet off the deck. One time in Norther CA i was fishing on the Eel river and here comes a f 15 screaming through the canyon scared the crap out of me.. crazy flying.
I was fishing with my Dad when a B-52 came overhead at 200'. My Dad, a WWII Veteran said: Son, Flying a B-52 that low doesn't make any sense. If I had a good Deer Rifle, I could have brought it down. Later, after several crashes, they stopped flying B-52's on low level missions.
@@jamesburns2232 there are the famous fly bys down in the death valley . where folks get pictures of the plans at 500 knots and 50 feet.
If they were on a low level training route, they are typically flown at 500 feet and 420 knots. Look away for half a second and it can be all over. No idea if they were on a low level but that would be one of the more dangerous training flights.
Unfortunately they were flying at low level during the flight if only for a fraction of a second, intentional or not 😢
@@57Jimmy I flew all those routes back in the day in a EA-6B. I forgot the rules but with say a 10 degree negative flight path angle you probably only have a second or two to correct before impacting terrain.
@@scottw5315 The Navigator/WSO/GIB has his hands full on a low-level mission. He has to keep close watch on time and headings as well as keep his head in the radar to read the terrain and make sure to be at the required altitudes. Any lack of diligence requires an immediate climb to the ESA - Emergency Safe Altitude. In this case, that would have been 16,000 feet, not 6,000 feet.
@jamesburns2232 crash site elevation was 6,320 (give or take)
@@jamesburns2232 It depends VR or IR. On a VR it's all visual, if you smack a mountain it's on you. Someone F'd up and given the picture of fatty, my money is on her. The other looked like she could hold her own in a jet squadron at a basic level.
Wow. This is in my rural area. Woke to some strange aerial traffic sounds last night. Hmmm.
Why has it taken SO VERY LONG (as of 22 Oct. 24) for details to trickle out ?? It's troublesome because this expert states that when there's a crash, the military " . . . goes all out!"
It dies not go all out on a media blitz. All out to find and rescue the crew. Talking on the TV does not help find crash sites or rescue downed aircrews.
Pray for the crew
Our prayers for them an there families
With all the sophisticated electronics, do these planes not have the ground sensing “terrain, terrain, pull up” warning we hear in airliner CVRs when they pick up the pieces?
The Zappers used to be VAQ 130 squadron. Still the same?
Same squadron, newer aircraft. They started with the Grumman EA-6B Prowler back in the 1970's, and now fly the newer Boeing EA-18G Growler. The pictures in this video show them carrying the same ALQ-99 jammer pods (with the little propeller on the front) that were carried by the Prowlers.
@@bea9077w Actually started out with A-3D, then EA-6B and finally EA-18, I was a member of that squadron in the late 70s
Greetings from VAQ 209, The star warriors. Left in 2000.
Did they find the seats in the plane
I would hope the military mountain rescue as well as NPS Mountain Rangers and the local professional rescue and guide services are on the ground helping to search where possible and safe on Rainier. Some big crevasse fields there.
they really need all personnels should have formations over there and police call-like missions to look for vital signs of life,its crucial esp if injured/loss of blood/cold extremities/survival
I would see military aircraft from time to time while fishing at Riffe Lake, but the coolest one was a c-17 that buzzed the dams. I know they trained out there to avoid dense populations in case one went down, sad to hear one did.
Appreciate ya. Thanks for sharing.
Great analysis.. Sadly, I doubt the crew has survived this.. They'd have been in contact by now..
I pray they find the aviators ok but not hopeful :(
Simply heartbreaking to lose two,of our pilots.
only one pilot the other was a passenger or NFO but NOT a pilot
Prayers for you, prox 😮
Prayers for all
Still 939 Search & Rescue unit at PDX USAFR. I’m be surprised they if they are not in on this.
With the fog and snow and speed that mountain looked like part of the sky they flew full speed into it...same as kobies pilot.
Why don’t they place a “Find my phone(plane) app in the airplane and in the air operations center?
I’m sure it was an air to ground interface problem.
no flight path of the missing aircraft...while the P-8 flight path is present...they are probably not alive....and we will probably never hear or see the real reason for the crash like the P-8 crash in Hawaii we have seen little and I have 2000 hours on ASW aircraft the older P-3
Barbers Point no doubt. I remember the P-3s were there back in the 80s. I flew C-130s and we would fly milk runs to Hickam or stopover enroute to Midway, Wake, Guam, Kwaj or the P.I.. But we also flew into Hilo and Kane' ohe Bay.
We flew into Moffett Field too. I could not believe how many P-3s were there. There were maybe as many P-3s there as there were C-130s at Little Rock AFB(the C-130 training base).
The one time I was on a P-3 was at Lajes Field in the Azores. I always wanted to go inside a P-3 and we were waiting on the ramp due to a squawk with our a/c and a P-3 crew was out at their airplane. I asked them if I could look around and see the inside. It was interesting and I learned a little about ASW. It was interesting seeing the sonabuoy ejector rack and that 'big ass' scope in the back. That airplane with upsidedown T-56A engines also had a much nicer galley and bunk layout.
The co-pilot and I swapped patches. They had the best patch I ever saw, even to this day. It was about 6" long and was a swordfish with its bill piercing a submarine. It was not round or square or triangular, it was shaped like a swordfish. I am sure you probably know this squadron. The last time I saw that patch was about 25 years ago, it was a box with the rest of my 'trash'.
Good luck and fair winds and following seas.
Feeling so sad - Evans was my Niece.
what kind of report is that they found plane but couldnt say if they were ejected, couldnt see the seat? if present, or burning ashes?or aybe its another plane they just saw???not a credible witness
What does the satellite show ?
Finally, some intelligent commentary
In this case, I would likely point to an instrument / electrical failure of some sort. January of 1968, our squadron lost an RF-4 into the side of a mountain just NW of MCAS El Toro. Very similar to this. It was determined in the investigation that there was a loss of electrical power within 10 minutes of take off.
The EF-18 Naval aviator in the back seat is the ECMO. That position controls the jamming missions, and does not have flight controls in the back seat.
The pilot is no rookie with quite a few launch and recoveries from a carrier, which is no small accomplishment. The final outcome of this may have some inkling in the end, but this is not the first place I would jump.
Actual expert in video. Many "experts" in comments.
Mount Ranier is 14,410 ft and they were flying at 6,000 ft.
Reminds me of Dean Martin's son crash in an F4 back in the late '80's.
All of us who live on the east side of Rainier know they zoom through the canyons daily. This was an accident directly into the ground somehow. There’s zero way the pilots are alive.
One of the two female pilots was a trainer!
Was there a wave point located near the mountain pilots use during flight. How do you fly into a mountain.
Probably sight seeing.
I hope I’m wrong but this is gonna get someone demoted or let go..
Unless it was mechanical, and I seriously doubt that.
Preying for everyone involved
CFIT would be my guess
Bird Strike
If they had ejected their ejection seat beacon would have gone off. EFA18 do not have terrain following radar but I believe the standard F18 does. So it’s extremely important they stay VFR. The back seater NFO is trained more in electronic countermeasures. Not dogfighting or Low Levels. I have heard rumors this was a flight of 2 aircraft and the wingman aborted due to the weather
I know that area well. Take care of them Lord.
God bless.
I saw John Nance in the thumbnail and wanted to see what he had to say for old times' sake. RIP to the pilots and many thanks for your service. You've earned your wings.....
Crash site is near arnesons peak near white pass
I've seen photoes of the hole one of our F-104s dug after the pilot, Milt Thompson, ejected. There were absolutely no airplane parts visible, just a sandy pit. Admittedly, mountains are harder to excavate than the desert floor, but there's a lot of energy there and disturbing the terrain is unavoidable. Starting a rockslide, for example, that buries the wreckage, is possible.
If the crew ejected, the winds over the mountain could have have carried them a long way away. Although with CFIT (Controlled Flight Into Terrain), as this retired pilot suspects, there's no warning and no chance to eject. Commercial aircraft, like airliners, have TCAS (Terrain Collision Avoidance System) that can tell the pilot to Pull Up, Pull Up. I think it uses radar, but my expertise is mostly with high-performance aircraft, not airliners. Military aircraft are sometimes flown NOE (Nap Of the Earth) at very low altitude and they have terrain-following control systems with radar, but an F/A-18 Growler wouldn't fly NOE. That's more for bombers like the B-1B trying to stay below the radar and sneak up on a ground target.
Why don’t the pilots put an Apple ID Tag in their pocket? Why didn’t the ELT give position immediately?
I'm going through all these comments, and if anybody mentions dei, they are being reported. These two aviators were highly trained, experienced and combat decorated warriors.
Thank you. It's been disgusting what people have said about them on several different channels.
Does reporting the comments make them less true?
@@ColorMeHoppy No more than posting them makes them true.
Growler !?
Hey, that stuff is expensive !
Such an interesting spot east of Mt Rainer. Very strange no photos of the plane yet & no crew found. Prayers for the Crew.
If they augered in don't pray for the crew pray for the families.
RIP boys. Sucks. 😢
Not "boys"....
Men
nickle on the grass
No GPWS on fighters?
X = unknown, spurt = a drip under pressure. Expert = an unknown drip under pressure.
I don’t think the pilot being a woman has much to do with it. It’s a skills thing and sometimes the safest pilot ever makes a mistake, sometimes deadly. I’ve seen it lots of times. Probably not mechanical either.
“Haven’t found the plane , any idea why it’s taking them so long” 🤦♂️. Apparently the reporter had never left the city. That’s rugged , steep heavily forested terrain. What a fool.
Too low too fast mount Rainer jumped out in front of them?
Hey, Dashiki, what’s that mountain goat doing in that cloud?
One pilot one electronic warfare officer.
Correct but it's easier to both explain and to understand, for those who don't "get it", if you just say "2 pilots". They're both aircrew, so in the eyes of most lay people they're "pilots"
...... so stealthy they won't be found till 2088.
@cherifbar yes and its not just semantics. In the US AirForce they used to use two Pilots in F-4s but the USN did not they used a pilot and RIO. I like that you were specific. Different services, different nomenclature
@@marklnz No flight controls in the rear cockpit a fact which neophytes are oblivious to.
Only ONE pilot was on board. The other is a passenger.(NFO)
It had a pilot and a naval flight officer. You should refer to the pair as the crew.
They are both called Naval Aviators
How can they find a man hiding in the woods anywhere but cant locate an entire plane. Wouldnt infrared cameras catch that pretty quick
Without a wingman to call it in right away there is no heat signature to track.
They never find many people in the woods, even when they aren’t trying to hide. The Cascades and Coast mountain ranges are incredibly rugged and difficult to get to in spots. Between Oregon and Alaska many aircraft have disappeared over the years, nothing mysterious,just rugged. A twin engine Lockheed disappeared around Vancouver BC and remained lost for decades only to be found a few miles from the city center, they could see the pilot’s house from the crash site!
ummm, they still have't found DB Cooper
Pretty obvious the pilot was hotdogging it. This was not part of a pre planned route, or the wreckage, as small as it would be, would be on a known path. So, this was not an aircraft malfunction, totally avoidable most likely. Sad.
Aren't these ELT equipped?
ELT is just line of sight UHF/VHF beacon. In mountainous terrain it can be garbage. It might also turn to glitter on impact.
Correction. It's probably also GPS. But again. Glitter at 500 kt impact.
Does the Blue Angels fly growlers????
Good journalistic questions. SUPERB carefully constructed gubmnt b.s.double-speak by Mr.Nance! Tell us nothing, fill the dead-air space w/soft word-shuttle/reshuffle. We already know that "it could be anything" that caused the disappearance.I WON'T be your partner @ next dance, Sir!
“No communication from pilots.”
There's no snow in mt rainier ATM. Bad info
Are you saying the ice is all gone to?
@waynemanning3262 I went on a hike to panoramic hike at rainier over the weekend, snow/ice is completely melted. The only snow/ice there's left is at the peak of rainier
@@DOKUS3I really! Lots still on Baker. Finding a high speed crash even without snow is difficult, I hope they are successful so the families can have closure, I had a co-worker whose brother crashed they think by Mount Waddington in BC, never found.
sorry, but your're wrong.
@@waynemanning3262 Mt baker isnt in mt rainier, but i see the point you're trying to make. Not sure what you're talking about, still
By the way, for those of you that think this situation just snuck up on them without warning and took their lives, think again. A jet like that has radar altimeters as well as terrain awareness abilities (Ground Proximity Warning Systems) that would be alerting the crew of their position and altitude in relation to the surrounding terrain and giving the pilot (and probably the NFO in the back) warnings when they got within a certain designated proximity and closure rate with terrain.
So, if they did run into the ground/rising terrain, unless all of those systems had failed AND they had lost situational awareness…well, you know my next thought.
@marlow769 WOW, they will need your input when the Naval review committee meets!
@@cmhansonI suppose it's a misogynistic comment that you're going to make because you're some kind of an asshole. Now I'm going to report this comment because you are a harassing and bullying
They should not be looking for them because the survival beacons should be sounding off.
5&5 club 500 feet 500 mph...they slammed into a mountain side at 500 mph
FLY BOYS GETTING THEIR JOLLY'S IN THEIR TOYS.
The reason for the crash is because the navy hired a couple of DEI pilots... just like Captian Diversity in New Zeland.
We won't comment on your intelligence but you need to go back to school. This time learn to spell. Can't spell CAPTAIN properly. Nice try.
ANnd you can't even spell NEW ZEALAND. If you're going to try to insult someone it's best not to look stupid in doing so. Just a hint.
@wendellthomas464 well, I can tell you're a leftist because you decided to attack my intelligence and my spelling.
Tell me, what happened to the first female navy fighter pilot?
Oh yeah, she flew her fighter straight into the stern of an aircraft carrier.
You see, I like all these DEI pilots because they always do two things.
1. Something inept that usually kills them and in the process...
2. Prove me right.
@@wendellthomas464 let me give you the opposite of a diversity hire.
The Tuskegee Airmen.
Yes, these black pilots were held back until The U.S. was soo desperate that they had to put them in a cockpit.
These men were highly qualified but still they were denied pilot training.
Most of them were already pilots and had degrees.
But at that time putting a black man in a fighter was not something the army wanted to do.
...but when it was obvious that we needed every qualified pilot we could get our hands on they were eventually given the green light.
their commanding officer was very interested in producing fighter pilots for the war effort but the man who was training them and signing off on that training decided to make it extremely difficult for them to ever become a fighter pilot.
He put them through hell increasing every step in their training to the extreme.
finally, the commanding officer demanded to know where his fighter pilots were.
He found out the games the instructor had been playing with them which extended their training far too long and required much more than the school actually had in the curriculum.
The commanding officer demanded that they be graduated immediately and put into a air wing.
and yes, because they had the bar set soo high during training they excelled in everything they did in the air and became legendary.
So you see, when you lower the bar and allow someone to graduate just to meet a quota for the sake of diversity they usually suck at what they do.
What happens when pilots think they're in one place but are actually in another....
FLY BOYS GETTING THEIR JOLLY'S IN THEIR TOYS.
In 2024 you might think they could locate the plane fast, especially since McChord is close by with all of its planes....
You'd think but it's going to require a direct visual and they're looking for a needle in a haystack.
Weather
You would think with all the radars they have now to detect they would be able to at least find the crash site.
Exactly.
Seems Airplanes are the only thing without AIR TAGS 🙄
If it’s in the open on the ground then probably. If it’s in tree cover or under snow then maybe not.
Do you keep saying East side of the mountain, your star shows West side.
Dumb reporter questions!