I know. It's bananas. And you get mopes like Paul from learnelectronics recycling the same circuits again and again or he's shilling some product. Just an example of life being backwards. Le has like 130k subs and the guy can't even make a proper two transistor audio circuit with a little microphone and speaker.
This video by SKULLCOM is the best one I have seen describing the photo-etching process... thank you for making it. When I was a youngster, I made my own circuit boards by using uncoated circuit boards. I lightly sanded the copper side. Then I simply used fingernail polish to paint traces where I wanted them. Then placed the board directly in the ferric chloride etching solution. Didn't need to use any photographic process. When the board was etched, i simply used fingernail polish REMOVER to clean the paint off. My method works OK for large components and ONE-OFF prototypes.... not for todays micro-circuitry. They always looked at me......kinda.... funny, when i went into the womens department to buy fingernail polish & remover !
Thanks for your comments. I do remember some of my friends also using finger nail varnish but I never did. I did however use a cheap permanent marker pen (and still do today) which works very well and like you I used finger varnish remover to clean the PCB after etching. Regards, Louis
Thank you for sharing this technique. The last time I designed a PCB was in 1983. I used a mix of Letraset rubbing symbols,Rotring pens on food wrapping paper. It was a Z80 based computer with 256 kb memory used as bank switching. The CPU board had almost 100 ic's double sided and worked at the first try. All software in a 2716 Eprom (2 kB).
Excellent video. I have done it like this for almost 30 years , first by drawing the mask with Indian ink and using black adhesive pads & tape. Nowadays I like to use the thermal transfer method which works really well, even for fine pitch SMD's. You have outstanding content on your channel, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge!!
Brought back memories of making pcb's at work years ago. We had 4 small tanks permanently set up, developer, rinse, etch and tinning. Got pretty messy at times.
Thanks for what I think is the best PCB video for photoresist process, and I've looked at most. One suggestion I would make to make these even better: please be quantitative where ever possible (e.g., give actual temperatures rather than quantitative terms like cool or warm. Also, please be specific about failure modes so we can troubleshoot our processes; e.g., a specific description of what the result of over-developing or under-developing would be preferable to simply saying we would see a bad result. That being said, I reiterate my praise for an excellent instructive video.
I love how clear the tutorial is and especially that the result looks very similar to some quite old tech I took apart (I love all sorts of old tech). Thanks!
Nice work, looks awesome. I've found I save at least 20 minutes towards the end of the etch if I take a sponge and wipe the rest of the copper off. It comes off super easy and saves a bunch of time.. I also like the liquid tin as my last step, super easy and really makes the board look shiny.
Thank you for the video. This video has to be one of the most detailed on how to PBC I have found on RUclips. I have my kit right here, now I just have to make time. Thanks again Brad
Hey thanks for the video and the tips. I've etched quite a few boards myself but I always learn something new (e.g. face down slow etching and tape tab). The funny thing is when you mentioned that you made your UV exposure unit from an old scanner it put a smile on me because I just took apart my old scanner a couple of days ago to convert it for the same purpose and it's pieces are laying right in front of me. :)
Have a look at my video on converting a cheap UV insect killer as they use the correct wavelength UV tubes which also work with photo resist PCB. ruclips.net/video/REnWbrRgZOQ/видео.html
Nice video as usually. Please keep the videos coming. They are extremely informative. There is no other channel on RUclips that is as good as yours in this field. Really good job. Thank you very much.
When I first took up electronics as a hobby, and later a profession, I designed the PCBs for my projects on 0.1in pitch graph paper, laid the finished design on a bit of copper clad board, used an awl to mark the drill holes then used rub down transfers to lay the design on the board and dropped it in Ferric Chloride solution. Once etched, I'd clean the board and drill it. A very time consuming job but I did enjoy it, apart from the time that the transfers floated to the top of the etchant or the time I decided it would be a good idea to make a PCB from start to finish in one evening after work and I laid the design the wrong way up on the copper clad board which in turn meant that I had to mount all the through hole components on the solder side of the PCB!. I later went on use photo resist board and UV exposure as seen in your video, which did speed up the process. Now I design my boards on my laptop, export the Gerber data and send it to China and I get 10 very high quality through hole plated, silk screen printed PCBs with solder resist in a choice of colours!. I pay about £30 for 10 boards, I obviously have to wait around 10-14 days to get them but I always have other projects to be getting on with and there's probably not much difference in cost, in fact it's probably cheaper than making my own.
I was enjoying your video when all of a sudden...i saw your hair dryer...haha!!..identical to mine!!! about 50 years of operation!! Anyway, fantastic tutorial, excellent work. I have to recover the equipment and the materials to try it too
I personally use a laser printer and iron on the toner to the PCB. And I use CuCl3 (HCL + Hydrogen peroxide + copper) for etching. I find this method cheaper, but your results look better I love your presentation and the content. Keep up the good work! Subscribed.
+Shaunak De Thanks for your comments. I have also tried the iron on option like yourself but I found that I did not get clean sharp edges to the copper print. Also I found that if the copper tracks are very small and close together I had problems with the iron on method.
+Donatas Juknevičius An alternative way without ultra violet light is to use press-n-peel PCB transfers sheets (you can find these sold on eBay for around £9 for 5 A4 sheets) the PCB artwork is then printed directly onto the film using either a photocopier or laser printer. The film is then ironed onto standard copper PCB using a domestic iron and left to cool for a few minutes. The film is then removed leaving the impression of the required PCB artwork. Etching can then be done in the same way I illustrated in my video. Although this method works I have found that the ultra violet light method using photo resist PCB gives a sharper PCB tracks.
8 лет назад
+Scullcom Hobby Electronics thanks! you helped me a lot. waiting for more interestinf videos :)
I for one, as a complete newbie to hobby electronics, would love to see a how to on converting the scanner to UV light box! Your videos are great, thank you for sharing your knowledge!!
+Ronny Ronduino Thanks for your comments. A flatbed scanner usually operate at a wavelength of about 593nm where as for PCB photo etch boards you need a wavelength of about 360nm. In the past when I converted a flatbed scanner I simply used the casing with the lid and glass plate and fitted a couple of small UV tubes of the right wavelength below the glass plate.
Brilliant video thanks for sharing your knowledge. I have watched several videos so far and they all skipped over the important parts but you really showed the whole process. I wonder if you would advise doing the tinning stage that I have seen others do?
I find it best, that before printing, to enlarge the outer rings of any through hole pads to a much larger diameter. Easy to do in any vector image editing program, like illustrator or the free alternatives like Inkscape. Any PCB layout program will let you print to PDF if you have a PDF software printer drives (doPDF is just one of them), then import to your vector image editing software, and make the TH pads much larger. My favorite for DIY PCB are oval or rounded rectangular pads. Not only to they make the pads easier to drill, they stand up to rework much if needed. Also, always use chunky traces. There's no reason to use 8mil traces when you have the room for a much larger trace, even if the circuit doesn't need it.
Scullcom Hobby Electronics, I always reduce the drill hole on all the pads to 0.5mm before printing ... it provides a centre spot in the pad for stopping the drill wandering (especially on drills
Loverly tutorial :-D, i had forgotten some of the steps for the photo method. For removing the etch resist on the tracks at the end we used to put it under uv again and then back in the developer, final traces gone, but your method with ipa looks faster :-) Years ago there used to be a product for tinning the bare copper, it was called something like "Seno GS tinning process" or similar, you popped the pcb in a bag and removed the divider clamp, the fluid was washed over the pcb untill it was tinned, then you held the pcb at the top of the bag and applied the clamp under it to seal off the fluid, open the top and fill with water to wash the pcb, looked loverly :-) I bet it does not exist any longer :-( Photo boards must have been relatively insensitive years ago as a 60 seconds of any light had no effect, also the uv exposure and developer 5-8 mins each, im glad that you can get ferric cloride still, also i etched the board face up and rocked the tray untill i was happy :-D
zx8401ztv Thanks. Yes you can still get Seno Immerse Tin Crystals. I have some and have used it occasionally. It is still fairly expensive at about £20 for 90 grams which makes about 1 litre of liquid. Once in liquid form it has a limited shelf life. The process is also quite long taking about 1 to 2 hours to tin a board, but the results do look good. I though I would make this video as I was making the PCB for the Voltage Reference Standard Upgrade project anyway and thought it might be helpful for the hobbyist. I will be using the PCB which I made in this video in Part 2 of that project - hope to get chance to complete it soon.
Scullcom Hobby Electronics Hey you take your time, just remember its your hobby and you must be able to enjoy it yourself first, never think you have to make a video just because we exist. And at some time you will have to inform us you cant answer all comments, it becomes a task as you gain viewers, you dont need that task, just my thoughts only :-) Yes seno tinning was expensive in the past too, i imagine your flux coating would keep the copper bright as well as its solder function, clever idea that :-)
Scullcom Hobby Electronics I think most videos people make about electronics are eather far too highbrow or based on rather expensive equipment for most people to enjoy, also some go far too deep and difficult to digest by a wide range of interested hobbyests, i could be wrong lol. You have a hobby that touches on repair but you also like the really handy "simple but accurate" things that are possible with quite reasonable cost, and never forget that your "peek inside" vidoes are good too. You dont know why people watch you? he he :-)
Actually my brother does this stuff, I see him make pcb suff on his computer. I think his degree is EE or is it ECE, I forgot. I wanted to do some projects on a Raspberry Pi and I when I did my research I found a video here in youtube where I got the idea that It's possible to make a pcb that doesn't have a lot of spaghetti wires on it. It's like pcb soldered to other pcbs and I think it's clean looking and better looking than with a lot of wires soldered in. I asked my brother if maybe he could help me with it. But he being a smart ass, told me a bunch of weird electronic jargons I didn't understand, him saying that is akin to saying, I'm to lazy to do that for you. So, I'm thinking of making it myself, I'm pretty sure it's gonna take a long time(or probably never), coz I'm not really good with electronics. Well I don't know how to or where to start...to be exact.
Hi, this is a very good video which explicitly explains each step in detail. I have a few queries: 1) Is it possible to expose the board with normal sunlight? If so, what should be the exposure time? 2) Can I get a smaller quantity of ferric chloride online? 5 litres is more than I need. 3) Where can I get the copper clad sheet with pre-coated photo resist? Thanks
Hi, Normal sunlight will not really work as you need the concentrated light of UV at a particular wavelength. Check out my video in which I show you how to make a UV Exposure Unit for making printed circuit boards by modifying a cheap UV insect killer unit. ruclips.net/video/REnWbrRgZOQ/видео.html You should be able to buy smaller quantities of ferric chloride on eBay. PCB Universal Photoresist Developer 25g (makes 1 litre working strength) can also be found on eBay. Photo-Resist, Epoxy Glass Composite PCB can also be found on eBay - also from places like Farnell (Element 14) their order code number is for these are 141301 - check out their web site.
I think you could save a lot of time in the etching step, if you alter your pcb design a little. Instead of removing all the copper that's not a trace, just remove half a millimeter around them as isolation. You'll save time, your ferric-chloride solution will last longer and you can use the remaining copper as a ground plane! Have you tried agitating the solutions, like with an aquarium-pump? This may also speed up the process, just mount the pcb at an angle, so no bubbles will be trapped under the pcb.
Thanks for your comments. I did try agitating as well as warming up the etchent which did reduce the time by about 15 minutes but as time was not an important issue I stopped doing that.
I've watched your videos here and there but definitely subscribing now, great stuff... wish I would've found you sooner! RUclips algorithm needs to do better lol
I use the exact same method you described here. However I rarely need to do it these days with these crazy cheap prices for prototyping PCB's. I only do home PCB's when I'm in a hurry for testing something. Nonetheless very detailed video, good for beginners.
VoltLog Thanks, thought it might be useful for the hobbyist who would normally work with PCB artwork which they can download in PDF form and simply print on a inkjet transparency film.
VoltLog With the advent of pcb houses driving down the cost of having a fab house make your pcb for you, this will become a dying art as so many other electronic techniques have become. (ie: ptp wiring, tube work, etc.) These videos are great as they will keep the lost art side of electronics alive forever. Thanks Scullcom for these. Look forward to future ones.
I like the video and perhaps I could suggest another easy method. 1) Like you I made a simple UV lightbox with 2x 4 UV tubes. I made it so that there are 4 UV tubes on the bottom and 4 UV tubes at the top with a drawer with glass plates in between. Crude but it works perfect. 2) I print both sides of the PCB on overhead projector sheets.( e.g. AVERY 3562) I staple both sheets so they form an envelope. (I use Eagle to design PCB) 3) I use a PCB with a rather insensitive photo layer on it. This layer is not sensitive to normal light so you can work without using special red lights. I work in my small workshop with an open 100W light bulb burning. I buy the PCB at Conrad, the partnr=523669 4) I cut the PCB about 5 mm larger than I need and place it in the envelope made in step 2. The 5 mm extra makes it less critical how you put the PCB in the envelope. 5) Expose for 300 sec in UV (Timing is not really critical and 300 sec works fine). 6) Make developer yourself. Get normal Draincleaner from drugstore. Make sure it is made out of 100% Natriumhydroxide. Cost about 3 Euro for 500gr. Mix 2 liter of water with 30gr Natriumhydroxide. Also this 30gr is not really critical. (In the past I literally used an old teaspoon to measure. I think it was 2 teaspoons) So with 1 bottle you can make over 30 Liters of the stuff. 7) Develop PCB. It takes less than 30 seconds. Timing is not critical, but wear rubber gloves! I use an cheap paintbrush to wipe the residue off the PCB while it develops. 8) Etch in Ferric Chloride. E.g. RS Partnr 551-277. Fresh FeCl will do the job within 30 minutes. I have a small plastic workshop container with a air bubble thingy from an aquarium in it. I guess it contains no more that 1 liter of FeCl solution...a 160x100mm PCB just fits in it. I have a small holder in which I can slide the sides of the PCB and this hold the PCB just under the surface with air bubbles from beneath. Air bubbles speed up the etching process considerably. 99% Of my board are double sided and this method works very well. Just make sure you are accurate when making the envelope so both layers are exactly on top of eachother.... and the right side up.. I then use a small CNC to drill the holes and cut the PCB but that is another story.
I gave up using Ferric Chloride because of the staining and smell. Now use Ammonium Persulphate which is available from most electronics suppliers. Much cleaner and less odour. Why does it take an hour to etch. Are you using a highly diluted solution. A board that size when using warmed (40-50c) etchant should etch in 5-10 mins. Nice concise instructions. I havnt tried photoetching yet but thinking about it. I currently use toner transfer which for basic hobby boards works well. Not as good when the board is fine detail or larger in size.
Not sure if you're aware of this, but if you have some exhausted photographic fixer - the sort you use for processing black and white film/papers, you can dip your freshly etched board into it and get it silver plated. Don't hold it in for too long else you get crystals ;) Make sure the fixer really is exhausted, else it doesn't work well.
excellent video. I always wanted to know to do this. I usually just use vero board as I don't make that many circuits but I may try this method next time
Me too. Now that CERN has gotten behind it it will gain even more traction in the industry. At the last place I worked I and two other EEs used it to make our PCBs, before the push and shove router feature was added.
Etching face down, always works better, after all we have gravity to befit from. I personally use a coffee cup heater and airate with an aquarium pump and the proper homemade tubing fixtures.
I recently made my first pcb. I found that the traces had a resistance reading between then and I used a weak solution of washing soda to nutralise the acid residue. Soaking it water overnight had not helped but now it's perfect. Have you had any experience of acid residue on your boards?
It would be really helpful if you could explain how you go from schematic and breadboard tested circuit to the PCB layout. Do you use software for that? and, if so, what software?
+Christopher Moore I used Kicad software to draw both the Schematic and produce the PCB layout. This is free software available to download from kicad-pcb.org/download/ The layout of the PCB is designed from past experience and Kicad then allows you to link the tracks. But I also sometimes design my own component layouts to use in Kicad.
Thank you for the promptness of your response. Would you consider doing a video (or two) on the process of going from concept to schematic to PCB to finished project?
+Christopher Moore I will give it some thought. At the moment I am working on a number of projects which I would like to finish. I would recommend you install Kicad and try playing with it. There are a number of videos already on You Tube showing Kicad in use. When it comes to the design of PCB layout, that tends to come with experience but there are some basic principles which may help so it is something I will consider as I have more time.
Can you show the process of doing the schematic on the computer? What program do you use and maybe a short tutorial on how to design a simple pcb. Thanks Rodney USA
Hi Rodney, I use KiCad which is free software available to download. kicad-pcb.org/ You will also find some good tutorials on RUclips, just search for KiCad.
Ahh, my exposure unit is Epson branded, too. And somehow a 1€ facial tanner from ebay ended up in it ;) . But the red light isn't necessary at all. As long as you aren't peeling back the film in the bright sun or a few hundred watts of halogen lights/fluorescents, nothing will happen to the photoresist in the few seconds it takes you to place it on the pattern and in the developer afterwards.
+superdau I concur, you can handle the board in subdued light without any problems. Just make sure there's no direct sunlight. This is an excellent tutorial by the way, many people just don't realise how easy it is
Yeah, I use pretty much the exact method shown here (except that I use the Seno GS "etch-in-a-bag" system, which is less messy and has less risk of spilling ferric chloride everywhere!), and I actually do it all in my kitchen with the main room lights on, which are all moderately-powerful (60-100W equivalent) cool-white LED lamps, and I've never had any issues with the photoresist being exposed to the light, or to the sunlight through the windows :) I'm considering buying one of the Chinese "CNC 3018 Pro" CNC "engravers" soon, so that drilling the boards (and milling the outline of them) will hopefully be easier, more accurate, and maybe-faster - as drilling them with a Dremel in a Dremel Workstation pseudo-pillar-drill rig is rather slow, and I don't much enjoy being that close to the amount of fibreglass dust that's generated by milling 1.6mm FR4! (Incidentally, for those in the UK, it's MUCH cheaper to buy Bungard pre-sensitised laminates from Watterott in Germany than it is to get any brand, e.g., Mega's Microtrak, from Rapid or Mega in the UK - and as long as you buy at least half a dozen of them, the £10 shipping cost is well worth it! … Now we just have to try our damnedest to stay in the EU VAT & Customs Region so that we don't have to deal with customs when ordering from Germany... >.>)
Why do you float the PCB face down on the ferric chloride? Is there harm in simply dunking it straight in? I ask because I have been lead to believe that the ferric chloride solution doesn't hurt the fiberglass, just eats away at the copper.
+MadJDMTurboBoost Etching the PCB face down floating on top of the ferric chloride works much better as the copper falls away from the PCB. You get a cleaner PCB also you can see when the etching has completed simply by looking at the top of the PCB you will see the circuit tracks. I have found this process also works much faster as the surface tension created on the print side pulls the copper away as the acid eats in to the copper. You are correct that ferric chloride doesn't damage the fiberglass PCB. The choice is yours but over the years I have found the face down method works much better.
Hoi there, i use ferric chloride also , but i use it warm, about 40 degrees celcius. It takes about 5 minutes to etch it. But if i do it too long , there will be to much eching at the side of the traces and the wil dissapere. How is it possible that it does not happen in your case? Second question, if i print a layout on a transfer, i have to do it twise on the same sheet to make it covered without holes. How is it possible that you dont have to do that?
+kees 7777 I normally just use my ferric chloride at room temperature, I prefer a slower etch which is easier to control. The reason the sides of your trace etch is probably due to the fact that the print side of your transparency is not up against the PCB copper. If you print a mirror image of your transparency then you can place the printed side of your transparent directly up against the PCB (as you then look at the PCB with the transparency on top it then looks the correct way). This ensures that you get a sharp edge to your tracks when under the ultra violet light and do not suffer from ultra violet light bleed on to your tracks - Have another look at my video and you will see how I do it. When you print with an inkjet printer on to a transparency I find the best setting for the printer settings are as follows: Set Quality to "Best Photo" Set paper type to "Premium Glossy Photo Paper" I find this better than using the inkjet transparency setting. This way you only print once. Usually the inkjet transparency film has a smooth shiny side and a slightly mat side. You need to print on the slightly mat side of the film. I use JETSTAR Inkjet film for Epson Printers (which is supplied by Mega Electronics Limited or one of their distributors.
So how much do all the supplies cost for this sized board? Aside from the chemicals, you use transparency paper, drill bits, the boards themselves, fluid trays, a red light etc... Sounds expensive and time consuming unless you do a lot of boards to make the costs worth while. Great video. What cad program makes the board layout?
The cost of the chemicals is low cost. Mega Electronics 600-009 Seno 4007 Photoresist Universal Developer Crystals (packs of approx. 25gm, sufficient to produce 500ml solution) costs £1.18. Mega Electronics 600-015 Seno PC145 Ferric Chloride Etchant 5 Litre (Dilute by an additional 30% with water for use with copper) costs £18.48 - this amount will last you several years. I use old plastic water bottles to store all mixed chemicals as you can use it again several times (lasts about 6 months). The RED light but cost about is about £4. Fluid trays are quite cheap or you could use old plastic ice cream tubs or food trays. The CAD program I use is KiCad which can be downloaded free of charge. Regards, Louis
I want to ask question, in developing steps it means that the clear part of the negative photoresist is dissolved and dissapear and it remains the blue line ?it just like cutting sticker right?
I am surprised you have not automated the UV on/off switch with an Arduino. Little push button to turn the lights on for just 60 secs, maybe a little buzzer too.
I still use rub off dry transfers for the artwork...originally sold by radio shack., but available elsewhere now as well. Printer supplies are very costly ... and do not last for any type of small application.
+Harry Haefner That depends on how you do it and what you use! If you use an inkjet printer and a sheet of inkjet transparency film, the total cost for that would be around 50p in UK money, around 75c US. Using a printer means you can use your PC to design and layout your board - use MS Paint for example. It's nowhere near as expensive as people imagine it to be. You don't have to use the "proper" inkjet PCB film, that's VERY expensive - just use the normal stuff that Staples sell. Or, you could draw it out the old fashioned way onto ordinary white paper, get it photocopied (5p per copy) onto a sheet cut from a glossy magazine and simply use the hot toner transfer method to produce near perfect boards every time.
Last tip on making the development process slower can’t be stressed enough: my first five boards or so failed misserably because I had a far to strong mix of the developer at about 45 degrees C, which sure makes development quick, about a second or two, and after that it will just be another couple if seconds before it also disolves the supposed protected areas, leaving me with sheets of shiny, blank copper. One thing I don’t find being that critical however is the strict red light dicipline, if you work semi-quickly under artificial light rather than unfiltered daylight it’s no problem. And if you are worried, nowdays there’s a better option than red light which is LED light, Which contains virtually no UV light, making it a perfect tool for this. Another hint, if you don’t want to build an exposure box you can use just a hanging bulb or a plain holder for the tubes without being in a box, however, you will get poor results if you just lay your transparencies on top of your plates and shine a light at them, to much will leak behind the print. This can be remedied by applying a small ammount of some very thin and color-less oil between the transparency and plate and press them together, that will keep them tightly squeezed together and let no light in. Heck, if you really want to do it cheap you could do the oil thing and just place it outside in the sunlight for half an hour: that’s right, exposure time will be longer with ”open air” lights like this, more like 10-15 minutes that the one to two with a proper exposure box. All this said, given how ridiculously cheap it is to have multi layer PCB’s manufactured in small series now, you hardly save a penny by making them yourself, I pretty much do it only when I really need the PCB right away. I mean, the place I order from will make 5 double of 4 layer boards at up to 100x140 mm with green or white solder mask, silk screen, the works, delivered to my doorstep in 8-10 days for 250 skr, about £25, an that’s for a 7/7 mil board which is pretty good. You can of course pay more to get them quicker, at about double the cost you can have them in 72 hours from ordering. Anyways, cheers for the video, well done.
One of best reasons to have a board house do your PCB's is the solder mask/silkscreen and the advantage of plated thru-holes. But it is fun to create from idea to working circuit in your "own house" so to speak. Doing so yourself provides a sense of satisfaction and accomplishment not otherwise attainable. There is now a process available by which you use a laser printer for the etch prevent and a separate "silk screen" which you print out via laser printer and affix to the single or double sided pc board and run it thru a heat laminator. I believe the cost for the laser printer, laminator and special printer stock is about $260 US. Of course you can use the printer multiple times as well as the laminator and I believe you can get 10 packs of the 8" x 10" special print transfer media for $60 a package.
It's the air that kills your developing fluid. Use distilled water. Get an accordion bottle that shrinks down or a vacuum sealer that seals bottles. It will last for a long time. I grabbed a small hard drive motor with a strong shaft 54k RPM. got a mini drill chuck from amazon (3 for 13 bucks). They set screw to any small motor shaft. I bolted it to a bottle corker with some shelving L brackets and it's mini drill press. I need to install a potentiometer so i can adjust the speed.
I used Mega Electronics 600-009 Seno 4007 Photoresist Universal Developer Crystals, which you dilute in warm water. Link below: www.rapidonline.com/mega-electronics-600-009-seno-4007-photoresist-universal-developer-crystals-34-0395 or Mega Electronics 600-010 Seno 4006 Liquid Developer Concentrate 1Litre makes 10 to 20Litre. Link below: www.rapidonline.com/mega-electronics-600-010-seno-4006-liquid-developer-concentrate-1l-makes-10-20l-34-0790
One thing these tutorials always dont mention is what you do with the liquids once it's time to get rid of em. Do you pour em down the toilet or dispose of em in a more responsible way is also a good topic to cover.
+tbbw The liquids can be saved in plastic bottles and used several times. I have found that it lasts for many months. Once the chemical liquids are no longer of use you can dispose of them via your local council waste sites.
Most people will just order the PCB from China now a days. A lot cheaper to have them made now than the expense and effort to make one yourself. The board you just made, is about $5 made in China. Hardly worth the costs of the raw material. Having said that, I very much enjoy watching OTHERS make them.
People often say this to me (I use pretty much exactly the same method shown in this video, although I use the Seno GS "etch-in-a-bag" system, which avoids exposing yourself to ferric chloride), and yes, with the cost of boards made in China, the price of chemicals and boards and equipment to do it at home IS greater - BUT everyone always seems to forget that, unless you want to pay £30/$40 for DHL/UPS/FedEx shipping, you have to wait 2 weeks or so to get your boards! By making them at home, sure I have to spend a few more hours making the design single-sided (unless I want to deal with the hassle of making a double-sided board at home) and then it's about an hour from start to finish for the expose+develop+etch process, but I can have a board ready *the same day*, which is often extremely useful when you're wanting to prototype something! :) My biggest gripe about home boards is drilling the holes, which takes ages and is just a pain in the arse. So I have my designs use SMD components as much as possible (and I use 0805, 1206, and 2512 0Ω "resistors" to jump over tracks where needed), and I'm currently considering buying one of the "cheap Chinese CNC 'engravers'" - specifically the "CNC 3018 Pro", aka the SainSmart Genmitsu, which Naomi "SexyCyborg" Wu made a video about recently, coincidentally *after* I'd settled on wanting to get that model! - and then hopefully I can get the holes drilled on that, which will be much more accurate, less effort, and potentially even faster :)
I use Vinyl cutter t cut out circuit form,,, better to use vinylcutter,,, laserprinter its not so good as vinylcytter,, and its be clean and very sharp...
i wouldn't say that is an easy method.....its expensive, messy and long way to finish The easiest way its the heat transfer but its not as high definition as the photo method.
Thanks for the comment. I find the photo method gives good professional results even when done by the hobbyist and is quite easy to do. As to cost I find it only costs me about 10 pense per PCB as I bottle and reused the same developer and Ferric Chloride Solutions several times (it lasts for many months). The main cost is the photo resist PCB which is about £3 per sheet of 160mm x 100mm this compares to a plain copper clad PCB which costs around half that price for the same size.
![[How2] Platinen ätzen](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IRy4y5RG1m4/mqdefault.jpg)
Truly one of the most underrated RUclips channels. Too bad the YT algorithm doesn't favour this type of content.
Because ppl are just secretly follow him then copy his own work to make money. This Guy is a Hero!
I know. It's bananas. And you get mopes like Paul from learnelectronics recycling the same circuits again and again or he's shilling some product. Just an example of life being backwards. Le has like 130k subs and the guy can't even make a proper two transistor audio circuit with a little microphone and speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Scully, for taking time to make this fine video. For a newcomer to photolithography, the details you included are very valuable.
Glad to hear you found it helpful. Thanks for your comments.
This video by SKULLCOM is the best one I have seen describing the photo-etching process... thank you for making it.
When I was a youngster, I made my own circuit boards by using uncoated circuit boards. I lightly sanded the copper side. Then I simply used fingernail polish to paint traces where I wanted them. Then placed the board directly in the ferric chloride etching solution. Didn't need to use any photographic process. When the board was etched, i simply used fingernail polish REMOVER to clean the paint off. My method works OK for large components and ONE-OFF prototypes.... not for todays micro-circuitry. They always looked at me......kinda.... funny, when i went into the womens department to buy fingernail polish & remover !
Thanks for your comments. I do remember some of my friends also using finger nail varnish but I never did. I did however use a cheap permanent marker pen (and still do today) which works very well and like you I used finger varnish remover to clean the PCB after etching.
Regards,
Louis
Thank you for sharing this technique. The last time I designed a PCB was in 1983. I used a mix of Letraset rubbing symbols,Rotring pens on food wrapping paper. It was a Z80 based computer with 256 kb memory used as bank switching. The CPU board had almost 100 ic's double sided and worked at the first try. All software in a 2716 Eprom (2 kB).
Excellent video.
I have done it like this for almost 30 years , first by drawing the mask with Indian ink and using black adhesive pads & tape.
Nowadays I like to use the thermal transfer method which works really well, even for fine pitch SMD's.
You have outstanding content on your channel, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge!!
Brought back memories of making pcb's at work years ago. We had 4 small tanks permanently set up, developer, rinse, etch and tinning. Got pretty messy at times.
IanScottJohnston I usually have an off cut of vinyl flooring which I use to protect my work bench from any of the liquids.
Thanks for what I think is the best PCB video for photoresist process, and I've looked at most.
One suggestion I would make to make these even better: please be quantitative where ever possible (e.g., give actual temperatures rather than quantitative terms like cool or warm. Also, please be specific about failure modes so we can troubleshoot our processes; e.g., a specific description of what the result of over-developing or under-developing would be preferable to simply saying we would see a bad result.
That being said, I reiterate my praise for an excellent instructive video.
I love how clear the tutorial is and especially that the result looks very similar to some quite old tech I took apart (I love all sorts of old tech). Thanks!
Thanks.
Nice work, looks awesome. I've found I save at least 20 minutes towards the end of the etch if I take a sponge and wipe the rest of the copper off. It comes off super easy and saves a bunch of time.. I also like the liquid tin as my last step, super easy and really makes the board look shiny.
Thanks for your comments. I have sometimes also used the liquid tin.
Thank you for the video. This video has to be one of the most detailed on how to PBC I have found on RUclips. I have my kit right here, now I just have to make time.
Thanks again
Brad
bobkins270 Thanks. Good luck with your PCB making.
Thank you for posting this video, and for taking the time and trouble to document the process step by step.
Much appreciated.
Best video I have seen thus far on homemade pcb manufacture. Top notch. Thank you. I loved your DIY light box vid to. Fantastic. :)
Hey thanks for the video and the tips. I've etched quite a few boards myself but I always learn something new (e.g. face down slow etching and tape tab). The funny thing is when you mentioned that you made your UV exposure unit from an old scanner it put a smile on me because I just took apart my old scanner a couple of days ago to convert it for the same purpose and it's pieces are laying right in front of me. :)
Have a look at my video on converting a cheap UV insect killer as they use the correct wavelength UV tubes which also work with photo resist PCB.
ruclips.net/video/REnWbrRgZOQ/видео.html
Very good explanation and very cool presentation. Thanks for posting.
Thanks for taking the mystery out of the process and showing the tips that make it an art. Thanks Again!
knunne1 Your welcome.
Nice video as usually. Please keep the videos coming. They are extremely informative. There is no other channel on RUclips that is as good as yours in this field. Really good job. Thank you very much.
Christian Christiansen Thanks for your kind comments. I have a number of other projects planned.
When I first took up electronics as a hobby, and later a profession, I designed the PCBs for my projects on 0.1in pitch graph paper, laid the finished design on a bit of copper clad board, used an awl to mark the drill holes then used rub down transfers to lay the design on the board and dropped it in Ferric Chloride solution. Once etched, I'd clean the board and drill it. A very time consuming job but I did enjoy it, apart from the time that the transfers floated to the top of the etchant or the time I decided it would be a good idea to make a PCB from start to finish in one evening after work and I laid the design the wrong way up on the copper clad board which in turn meant that I had to mount all the through hole components on the solder side of the PCB!. I later went on use photo resist board and UV exposure as seen in your video, which did speed up the process. Now I design my boards on my laptop, export the Gerber data and send it to China and I get 10 very high quality through hole plated, silk screen printed PCBs with solder resist in a choice of colours!. I pay about £30 for 10 boards, I obviously have to wait around 10-14 days to get them but I always have other projects to be getting on with and there's probably not much difference in cost, in fact it's probably cheaper than making my own.
+Mike Hawkins Thanks for your info and comments.
I was enjoying your video when all of a sudden...i saw your hair dryer...haha!!..identical to mine!!! about 50 years of operation!! Anyway, fantastic tutorial, excellent work. I have to recover the equipment and the materials to try it too
I personally use a laser printer and iron on the toner to the PCB. And I use CuCl3 (HCL + Hydrogen peroxide + copper) for etching. I find this method cheaper, but your results look better
I love your presentation and the content. Keep up the good work! Subscribed.
+Shaunak De Thanks for your comments. I have also tried the iron on option like yourself but I found that I did not get clean sharp edges to the copper print. Also I found that if the copper tracks are very small and close together I had problems with the iron on method.
+Scullcom Hobby Electronics Thank you so much for your reply also. Your video is inspiring me to try to find a cheap supplier for coated PCBs
+Shaunak De Glad to hear you enjoy my videos.
Nicely done! one of the better how-to's
+Ross Potts Thanks.
very good job,good quality video,nice audio quality and very clear tutorial.
Thank you.
Thank you sharing knowledge , your lectures is very useful to me , big thumb up
Thank you.
Great tutorial! Looks pretty simple. waiting for more tutorials.
+Donatas Juknevičius Thanks, Glad you found it useful.
+Scullcom Hobby Electronics it's very useful! how about any way without ultra violent?
+Donatas Juknevičius An alternative way without ultra violet light is to use press-n-peel PCB transfers sheets (you can find these sold on eBay for around £9 for 5 A4 sheets) the PCB artwork is then printed directly onto the film using either a photocopier or laser printer. The film is then ironed onto standard copper PCB using a domestic iron and left to cool for a few minutes. The film is then removed leaving the impression of the required PCB artwork. Etching can then be done in the same way I illustrated in my video. Although this method works I have found that the ultra violet light method using photo resist PCB gives a sharper PCB tracks.
+Scullcom Hobby Electronics thanks! you helped me a lot. waiting for more interestinf videos :)
That bought back some memories of many years ago.
rupert handford I trust they were happy memories :-)
process is good, but presentation is excellent. keep it up.
wow.....great video. Thanks for the clear step-by-step. I can't wait to try this!
Glad it was helpful.
Not something I´ll ever use, but the result looks quite beautiful and you explained it all very well.
+Shroud3d Thanks.
I for one, as a complete newbie to hobby electronics, would love to see a how to on converting the scanner to UV light box!
Your videos are great, thank you for sharing your knowledge!!
+Ronny Ronduino Thanks for your comments. A flatbed scanner usually operate at a wavelength of about 593nm where as for PCB photo etch boards you need a wavelength of about 360nm. In the past when I converted a flatbed scanner I simply used the casing with the lid and glass plate and fitted a couple of small UV tubes of the right wavelength below the glass plate.
Thank you for the reply, so many interesting things to do with this hobby!
I am enjoying your video's very much. thanks
glennextra Thanks. Your welcome.
Keep up the good work!
Thanks.
+Petty Pavlow Thanks.
Brilliant video thanks for sharing your knowledge. I have watched several videos so far and they all skipped over the important parts but you really showed the whole process. I wonder if you would advise doing the tinning stage that I have seen others do?
Thank you so much, really useful.
Your welcome.
I find it best, that before printing, to enlarge the outer rings of any through hole pads to a much larger diameter. Easy to do in any vector image editing program, like illustrator or the free alternatives like Inkscape. Any PCB layout program will let you print to PDF if you have a PDF software printer drives (doPDF is just one of them), then import to your vector image editing software, and make the TH pads much larger. My favorite for DIY PCB are oval or rounded rectangular pads. Not only to they make the pads easier to drill, they stand up to rework much if needed. Also, always use chunky traces. There's no reason to use 8mil traces when you have the room for a much larger trace, even if the circuit doesn't need it.
Thanks for your comments George.
Scullcom Hobby Electronics, I always reduce the drill hole on all the pads to 0.5mm before printing ... it provides a centre spot in the pad for stopping the drill wandering (especially on drills
Thanks for your video, easy to follow process great professional results.
Thanks Anthony.
Loverly tutorial :-D, i had forgotten some of the steps for the photo method.
For removing the etch resist on the tracks at the end we used to put it under uv again and then back in the developer, final traces gone, but your method with ipa looks faster :-)
Years ago there used to be a product for tinning the bare copper, it was called something like "Seno GS tinning process" or similar, you popped the pcb in a bag and removed the divider clamp, the fluid was washed over the pcb untill it was tinned, then you held the pcb at the top of the bag and applied the clamp under it to seal off the fluid, open the top and fill with water to wash the pcb, looked loverly :-)
I bet it does not exist any longer :-(
Photo boards must have been relatively insensitive years ago as a 60 seconds of any light had no effect, also the uv exposure and developer 5-8 mins each, im glad that you can get ferric cloride still, also i etched the board face up and rocked the tray untill i was happy :-D
zx8401ztv Thanks. Yes you can still get Seno Immerse Tin Crystals. I have some and have used it occasionally. It is still fairly expensive at about £20 for 90 grams which makes about 1 litre of liquid. Once in liquid form it has a limited shelf life. The process is also quite long taking about 1 to 2 hours to tin a board, but the results do look good. I though I would make this video as I was making the PCB for the Voltage Reference Standard Upgrade project anyway and thought it might be helpful for the hobbyist. I will be using the PCB which I made in this video in Part 2 of that project - hope to get chance to complete it soon.
Scullcom Hobby Electronics Hey you take your time, just remember its your hobby and you must be able to enjoy it yourself first, never think you have to make a video just because we exist.
And at some time you will have to inform us you cant answer all comments, it becomes a task as you gain viewers, you dont need that task, just my thoughts only :-)
Yes seno tinning was expensive in the past too, i imagine your flux coating would keep the copper bright as well as its solder function, clever idea that :-)
zx8401ztv Thanks for your advise. I am somewhat surprised at how many are viewing my videos.
Scullcom Hobby Electronics I think most videos people make about electronics are eather far too highbrow or based on rather expensive equipment for most people to enjoy, also some go far too deep and difficult to digest by a wide range of interested hobbyests, i could be wrong lol.
You have a hobby that touches on repair but you also like the really handy "simple but accurate" things that are possible with quite reasonable cost, and never forget that your "peek inside" vidoes are good too.
You dont know why people watch you? he he :-)
I'll probably never do this in my life, but cool video! I like it!
Thanks. I use this method a lot as it means I can quickly make my own prototype PCB very quickly.
Actually my brother does this stuff, I see him make pcb suff on his computer. I think his degree is EE or is it ECE, I forgot. I wanted to do some projects on a Raspberry Pi and I when I did my research I found a video here in youtube where I got the idea that It's possible to make a pcb that doesn't have a lot of spaghetti wires on it. It's like pcb soldered to other pcbs and I think it's clean looking and better looking than with a lot of wires soldered in. I asked my brother if maybe he could help me with it. But he being a smart ass, told me a bunch of weird electronic jargons I didn't understand, him saying that is akin to saying, I'm to lazy to do that for you. So, I'm thinking of making it myself, I'm pretty sure it's gonna take a long time(or probably never), coz I'm not really good with electronics. Well I don't know how to or where to start...to be exact.
BigBadSpikey start with RUclips, search questions you have and explore, fake it till you make it
Actually that's what I'm doing right now...haha
Hi, this is a very good video which explicitly explains each step in detail. I have a few queries:
1) Is it possible to expose the board with normal sunlight? If so, what should be the exposure time?
2) Can I get a smaller quantity of ferric chloride online? 5 litres is more than I need.
3) Where can I get the copper clad sheet with pre-coated photo resist?
Thanks
Hi,
Normal sunlight will not really work as you need the concentrated light of UV at a particular wavelength.
Check out my video in which I show you how to make a UV Exposure Unit for making printed circuit boards by modifying a cheap UV insect killer unit.
ruclips.net/video/REnWbrRgZOQ/видео.html
You should be able to buy smaller quantities of ferric chloride on eBay.
PCB Universal Photoresist Developer 25g (makes 1 litre working strength) can also be found on eBay.
Photo-Resist, Epoxy Glass Composite PCB can also be found on eBay - also from places like Farnell (Element 14) their order code number is for these are 141301 - check out their web site.
Liquid Flux I always use, and am to try Liquid Tin which seems to combines the plating in one step!
I think you could save a lot of time in the etching step, if you alter your pcb design a little. Instead of removing all the copper that's not a trace, just remove half a millimeter around them as isolation. You'll save time, your ferric-chloride solution will last longer and you can use the remaining copper as a ground plane!
Have you tried agitating the solutions, like with an aquarium-pump? This may also speed up the process, just mount the pcb at an angle, so no bubbles will be trapped under the pcb.
Thanks for your comments. I did try agitating as well as warming up the etchent which did reduce the time by about 15 minutes but as time was not an important issue I stopped doing that.
I etched brass plaques in the 80s... we used Kodak photoresist and developed it with toluene.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us!
+Rudy Rutenber You are welcome.
And you will come back. I miss the projects.
I've watched your videos here and there but definitely subscribing now, great stuff... wish I would've found you sooner! RUclips algorithm needs to do better lol
Thanks for the demonstration. I enjoy your videos. 29:11
Really amazing guide :) Keep up the good work !!!
Марин Александров Thank you.
Clear and well explained, Thank you.
Thank you
Very well presented. Thanks.
jix177 Thanks.
Nice :).. keep your videos coming sir,it's very informative and entertaining.
Hi'gak Iya Thanks I will do my best :-)
I use the exact same method you described here. However I rarely need to do it these days with these crazy cheap prices for prototyping PCB's. I only do home PCB's when I'm in a hurry for testing something. Nonetheless very detailed video, good for beginners.
VoltLog Thanks, thought it might be useful for the hobbyist who would normally work with PCB artwork which they can download in PDF form and simply print on a inkjet transparency film.
VoltLog
With the advent of pcb houses driving down the cost of having a fab house make your pcb for you,
this will become a dying art as so many other electronic techniques have become. (ie: ptp wiring, tube work,
etc.)
These videos are great as they will keep the lost art side of electronics alive forever.
Thanks Scullcom for these. Look forward to future ones.
I like the video and perhaps I could suggest another easy method.
1) Like you I made a simple UV lightbox with 2x 4 UV tubes. I made it so that there are 4 UV tubes on the bottom and 4 UV tubes at the top with a drawer with glass plates in between. Crude but it works perfect.
2) I print both sides of the PCB on overhead projector sheets.( e.g. AVERY 3562) I staple both sheets so they form an envelope. (I use Eagle to design PCB)
3) I use a PCB with a rather insensitive photo layer on it. This layer is not sensitive to normal light so you can work without using special red lights. I work in my small workshop with an open 100W light bulb burning. I buy the PCB at Conrad, the partnr=523669
4) I cut the PCB about 5 mm larger than I need and place it in the envelope made in step 2. The 5 mm extra makes it less critical how you put the PCB in the envelope.
5) Expose for 300 sec in UV (Timing is not really critical and 300 sec works fine).
6) Make developer yourself. Get normal Draincleaner from drugstore. Make sure it is made out of 100% Natriumhydroxide. Cost about 3 Euro for 500gr. Mix 2 liter of water with 30gr Natriumhydroxide. Also this 30gr is not really critical. (In the past I literally used an old teaspoon to measure. I think it was 2 teaspoons) So with 1 bottle you can make over 30 Liters of the stuff.
7) Develop PCB. It takes less than 30 seconds. Timing is not critical, but wear rubber gloves! I use an cheap paintbrush to wipe the residue off the PCB while it develops.
8) Etch in Ferric Chloride. E.g. RS Partnr 551-277. Fresh FeCl will do the job within 30 minutes. I have a small plastic workshop container with a air bubble thingy from an aquarium in it. I guess it contains no more that 1 liter of FeCl solution...a 160x100mm PCB just fits in it. I have a small holder in which I can slide the sides of the PCB and this hold the PCB just under the surface with air bubbles from beneath. Air bubbles speed up the etching process considerably.
99% Of my board are double sided and this method works very well. Just make sure you are accurate when making the envelope so both layers are exactly on top of eachother.... and the right side up..
I then use a small CNC to drill the holes and cut the PCB but that is another story.
Thanks for you detailed comments. I am sure it will be of interest to others.
Regards,
Louis
Hope you are well
I gave up using Ferric Chloride because of the staining and smell. Now use Ammonium Persulphate which is available from most electronics suppliers. Much cleaner and less odour.
Why does it take an hour to etch. Are you using a highly diluted solution. A board that size when using warmed (40-50c) etchant should etch in 5-10 mins.
Nice concise instructions.
I havnt tried photoetching yet but thinking about it. I currently use toner transfer which for basic hobby boards works well. Not as good when the board is fine detail or larger in size.
Thanks for your comments which may be of interest to others.
Not sure if you're aware of this, but if you have some exhausted photographic fixer - the sort you use for processing black and white film/papers, you can dip your freshly etched board into it and get it silver plated. Don't hold it in for too long else you get crystals ;) Make sure the fixer really is exhausted, else it doesn't work well.
+Lloyd Dragonforce Thanks. Interesting point.
Very informative video, thank you.
Mark Garth Thanks. Your welcome.
excellent video. I always wanted to know to do this. I usually just use vero board as I don't make that many circuits but I may try this method next time
waheex Thanks for your comments. Good luck with trying it next time.
Thx for sharing your PCB method. What do you use for the layout?
+pcrengnr1 I use Kicad free software.
Me too. Now that CERN has gotten behind it it will gain even more traction in the industry. At the last place I worked I and two other EEs used it to make our PCBs, before the push and shove router feature was added.
Etching face down, always works better, after all we have gravity to befit from. I personally use a coffee cup heater and airate with an aquarium pump and the proper homemade tubing fixtures.
Harry Haefner Thanks for your comments.
What software did you use to create the PCB?
very nice sir, thanks for sharing.
visweswara rao kalla Your welcome.
NIce tutorial, thanks for sharing
Thanks, Your welcome.
how do you dispose of the acid? i don't suppose you use it to unclog blobked drains. :)
I recently made my first pcb. I found that the traces had a resistance reading between then and I used a weak solution of washing soda to nutralise the acid residue. Soaking it water overnight had not helped but now it's perfect. Have you had any experience of acid residue on your boards?
if you have room you could probably build in a timer circuit in the uv box
I mean the UV light make negative photoresist can dissolved when developing peocess?
How do you dispose of the etchant?
It would be really helpful if you could explain how you go from schematic and breadboard tested circuit to the PCB layout. Do you use software for that? and, if so, what software?
+Christopher Moore I used Kicad software to draw both the Schematic and produce the PCB layout. This is free software available to download from kicad-pcb.org/download/
The layout of the PCB is designed from past experience and Kicad then allows you to link the tracks. But I also sometimes design my own component layouts to use in Kicad.
Thank you for the promptness of your response. Would you consider doing a video (or two) on the process of going from concept to schematic to PCB to finished project?
+Christopher Moore I will give it some thought. At the moment I am working on a number of projects which I would like to finish. I would recommend you install Kicad and try playing with it. There are a number of videos already on You Tube showing Kicad in use. When it comes to the design of PCB layout, that tends to come with experience but there are some basic principles which may help so it is something I will consider as I have more time.
Can you show the process of doing the schematic on the computer? What program do you use and maybe a short tutorial on how to design a simple pcb.
Thanks
Rodney
USA
Hi Rodney, I use KiCad which is free software available to download.
kicad-pcb.org/
You will also find some good tutorials on RUclips, just search for KiCad.
Ahh, my exposure unit is Epson branded, too. And somehow a 1€ facial tanner from ebay ended up in it ;) .
But the red light isn't necessary at all. As long as you aren't peeling back the film in the bright sun or a few hundred watts of halogen lights/fluorescents, nothing will happen to the photoresist in the few seconds it takes you to place it on the pattern and in the developer afterwards.
+superdau I concur, you can handle the board in subdued light without any problems. Just make sure there's no direct sunlight.
This is an excellent tutorial by the way, many people just don't realise how easy it is
Yeah, I use pretty much the exact method shown here (except that I use the Seno GS "etch-in-a-bag" system, which is less messy and has less risk of spilling ferric chloride everywhere!), and I actually do it all in my kitchen with the main room lights on, which are all moderately-powerful (60-100W equivalent) cool-white LED lamps, and I've never had any issues with the photoresist being exposed to the light, or to the sunlight through the windows :) I'm considering buying one of the Chinese "CNC 3018 Pro" CNC "engravers" soon, so that drilling the boards (and milling the outline of them) will hopefully be easier, more accurate, and maybe-faster - as drilling them with a Dremel in a Dremel Workstation pseudo-pillar-drill rig is rather slow, and I don't much enjoy being that close to the amount of fibreglass dust that's generated by milling 1.6mm FR4!
(Incidentally, for those in the UK, it's MUCH cheaper to buy Bungard pre-sensitised laminates from Watterott in Germany than it is to get any brand, e.g., Mega's Microtrak, from Rapid or Mega in the UK - and as long as you buy at least half a dozen of them, the £10 shipping cost is well worth it! … Now we just have to try our damnedest to stay in the EU VAT & Customs Region so that we don't have to deal with customs when ordering from Germany... >.>)
Hey, graleat video. Why did you spray flux over the board at the end? And what gave the board that gossy finish? Thanks.
The flux stops the copper traces from oxidizing and makes it easier to solder later. The flux also gives the glossy finish.
What nm uv light is working best for this?
Does the flux spray help prevent oxidation of the copper?Keep up the good work.
+Donovan Lym Thanks for your comment. Yes the flux spray does also help to prevent oxidation.
Why not put the board under uv light again and then use the developer to get rid of the sest of the photoresist?
Why do you float the PCB face down on the ferric chloride? Is there harm in simply dunking it straight in? I ask because I have been lead to believe that the ferric chloride solution doesn't hurt the fiberglass, just eats away at the copper.
+MadJDMTurboBoost Etching the PCB face down floating on top of the ferric chloride works much better as the copper falls away from the PCB. You get a cleaner PCB also you can see when the etching has completed simply by looking at the top of the PCB you will see the circuit tracks. I have found this process also works much faster as the surface tension created on the print side pulls the copper away as the acid eats in to the copper. You are correct that ferric chloride doesn't damage the fiberglass PCB. The choice is yours but over the years I have found the face down method works much better.
Hoi there, i use ferric chloride also , but i use it warm, about 40 degrees celcius. It takes about 5 minutes to etch it. But if i do it too long , there will be to much eching at the side of the traces and the wil dissapere. How is it possible that it does not happen in your case? Second question, if i print a layout on a transfer, i have to do it twise on the same sheet to make it covered without holes. How is it possible that you dont have to do that?
+kees 7777 I normally just use my ferric chloride at room temperature, I prefer a slower etch which is easier to control.
The reason the sides of your trace etch is probably due to the fact that the print side of your transparency is not up against the PCB copper. If you print a mirror image of your transparency then you can place the printed side of your transparent directly up against the PCB (as you then look at the PCB with the transparency on top it then looks the correct way). This ensures that you get a sharp edge to your tracks when under the ultra violet light and do not suffer from ultra violet light bleed on to your tracks - Have another look at my video and you will see how I do it.
When you print with an inkjet printer on to a transparency I find the best setting for the printer settings are as follows:
Set Quality to "Best Photo"
Set paper type to "Premium Glossy Photo Paper" I find this better than using the inkjet transparency setting.
This way you only print once.
Usually the inkjet transparency film has a smooth shiny side and a slightly mat side. You need to print on the slightly mat side of the film. I use JETSTAR Inkjet film for Epson Printers (which is supplied by Mega Electronics Limited or one of their distributors.
+kees 7777 Sorry I miss read your comment about using a transfer. I have found using transparency film much better so would suggest using that.
marvelous
So how much do all the supplies cost for this sized board? Aside from the chemicals, you use transparency paper, drill bits, the boards themselves, fluid trays, a red light etc... Sounds expensive and time consuming unless you do a lot of boards to make the costs worth while. Great video. What cad program makes the board layout?
The cost of the chemicals is low cost.
Mega Electronics 600-009 Seno 4007 Photoresist Universal Developer Crystals (packs of approx. 25gm, sufficient to produce 500ml solution) costs £1.18.
Mega Electronics 600-015 Seno PC145 Ferric Chloride Etchant 5 Litre (Dilute by an additional 30% with water for use with copper) costs £18.48 - this amount will last you several years. I use old plastic water bottles to store all mixed chemicals as you can use it again several times (lasts about 6 months).
The RED light but cost about is about £4. Fluid trays are quite cheap or you could use old plastic ice cream tubs or food trays.
The CAD program I use is KiCad which can be downloaded free of charge.
Regards,
Louis
I want to ask question, in developing steps it means that the clear part of the negative photoresist is dissolved and dissapear and it remains the blue line ?it just like cutting sticker right?
Yes the clear part dissolves when developing after exposure to UV light.
Scullcom Hobby Electronics thanks for your answer, youre so kind :)
I am surprised you have not automated the UV on/off switch with an Arduino. Little push button to turn the lights on for just 60 secs, maybe a little buzzer too.
Yes I could add one. At the moment I just use a small kitchen timer. Regards, Louis
I still use rub off dry transfers for the artwork...originally sold by radio shack., but available elsewhere now as well. Printer supplies are very costly ... and do not last for any type of small application.
+Harry Haefner That depends on how you do it and what you use! If you use an inkjet printer and a sheet of inkjet transparency film, the total cost for that would be around 50p in UK money, around 75c US. Using a printer means you can use your PC to design and layout your board - use MS Paint for example. It's nowhere near as expensive as people imagine it to be. You don't have to use the "proper" inkjet PCB film, that's VERY expensive - just use the normal stuff that Staples sell. Or, you could draw it out the old fashioned way onto ordinary white paper, get it photocopied (5p per copy) onto a sheet cut from a glossy magazine and simply use the hot toner transfer method to produce near perfect boards every time.
Did you ever wonder if a 3D printer can be used to lay down plastic on the board where the traces would be and then etch it in ferric chloride?
+Paul Crissman Never thought of that - seems a costly way of doing it, if it works!!
I'd expect a 3d pinter to be quite coarse in the amount of detail you can get. Try with a 2d plotter and a sharpie and you'd probably have more luck!
Last tip on making the development process slower can’t be stressed enough: my first five boards or so failed misserably because I had a far to strong mix of the developer at about 45 degrees C, which sure makes development quick, about a second or two, and after that it will just be another couple if seconds before it also disolves the supposed protected areas, leaving me with sheets of shiny, blank copper.
One thing I don’t find being that critical however is the strict red light dicipline, if you work semi-quickly under artificial light rather than unfiltered daylight it’s no problem. And if you are worried, nowdays there’s a better option than red light which is LED light, Which contains virtually no UV light, making it a perfect tool for this.
Another hint, if you don’t want to build an exposure box you can use just a hanging bulb or a plain holder for the tubes without being in a box, however, you will get poor results if you just lay your transparencies on top of your plates and shine a light at them, to much will leak behind the print. This can be remedied by applying a small ammount of some very thin and color-less oil between the transparency and plate and press them together, that will keep them tightly squeezed together and let no light in. Heck, if you really want to do it cheap you could do the oil thing and just place it outside in the sunlight for half an hour: that’s right, exposure time will be longer with ”open air” lights like this, more like 10-15 minutes that the one to two with a proper exposure box.
All this said, given how ridiculously cheap it is to have multi layer PCB’s manufactured in small series now, you hardly save a penny by making them yourself, I pretty much do it only when I really need the PCB right away. I mean, the place I order from will make 5 double of 4 layer boards at up to 100x140 mm with green or white solder mask, silk screen, the works, delivered to my doorstep in 8-10 days for 250 skr, about £25, an that’s for a 7/7 mil board which is pretty good. You can of course pay more to get them quicker, at about double the cost you can have them in 72 hours from ordering.
Anyways, cheers for the video, well done.
Thanks for your detailed comments. I am sure it will be of interest to many others.
Regards,
Louis
One of best reasons to have a board house do your PCB's is the solder mask/silkscreen and the advantage of plated thru-holes. But it is fun to create from idea to working circuit in your "own house" so to speak. Doing so yourself provides a sense of satisfaction and accomplishment not otherwise attainable. There is now a process available by which you use a laser printer for the etch prevent and a separate "silk screen" which you print out via laser printer and affix to the single or double sided pc board and run it thru a heat laminator. I believe the cost for the laser printer, laminator and special printer stock is about $260 US. Of course you can use the printer multiple times as well as the laminator and I believe you can get 10 packs of the 8" x 10" special print transfer media for $60 a package.
It's the air that kills your developing fluid. Use distilled water. Get an accordion bottle that shrinks down or a vacuum sealer that seals bottles. It will last for a long time.
I grabbed a small hard drive motor with a strong shaft 54k RPM. got a mini drill chuck from amazon (3 for 13 bucks). They set screw to any small motor shaft. I bolted it to a bottle corker with some shelving L brackets and it's mini drill press. I need to install a potentiometer so i can adjust the speed.
Thanks for the information.
Hey. What is the developer liquid?
I used Mega Electronics 600-009 Seno 4007 Photoresist Universal Developer Crystals, which you dilute in warm water. Link below:
www.rapidonline.com/mega-electronics-600-009-seno-4007-photoresist-universal-developer-crystals-34-0395
or
Mega Electronics 600-010 Seno 4006 Liquid Developer Concentrate 1Litre makes 10 to 20Litre. Link below:
www.rapidonline.com/mega-electronics-600-010-seno-4006-liquid-developer-concentrate-1l-makes-10-20l-34-0790
You can also use soda crystals as well from the supermarket they work just as good
Clean!
One thing these tutorials always dont mention is what you do with the liquids once it's time to get rid of em.
Do you pour em down the toilet or dispose of em in a more responsible way is also a good topic to cover.
+tbbw The liquids can be saved in plastic bottles and used several times. I have found that it lasts for many months. Once the chemical liquids are no longer of use you can dispose of them via your local council waste sites.
The only problem with that type of photo sensitive material is that if you make a mistake you can't correct it
nicee
Thanks
Im frome pakistan i like your all videos
Most people will just order the PCB from China now a days.
A lot cheaper to have them made now than the expense and effort to make one yourself.
The board you just made, is about $5 made in China. Hardly worth the costs of the raw material.
Having said that, I very much enjoy watching OTHERS make them.
People often say this to me (I use pretty much exactly the same method shown in this video, although I use the Seno GS "etch-in-a-bag" system, which avoids exposing yourself to ferric chloride), and yes, with the cost of boards made in China, the price of chemicals and boards and equipment to do it at home IS greater - BUT everyone always seems to forget that, unless you want to pay £30/$40 for DHL/UPS/FedEx shipping, you have to wait 2 weeks or so to get your boards! By making them at home, sure I have to spend a few more hours making the design single-sided (unless I want to deal with the hassle of making a double-sided board at home) and then it's about an hour from start to finish for the expose+develop+etch process, but I can have a board ready *the same day*, which is often extremely useful when you're wanting to prototype something! :)
My biggest gripe about home boards is drilling the holes, which takes ages and is just a pain in the arse. So I have my designs use SMD components as much as possible (and I use 0805, 1206, and 2512 0Ω "resistors" to jump over tracks where needed), and I'm currently considering buying one of the "cheap Chinese CNC 'engravers'" - specifically the "CNC 3018 Pro", aka the SainSmart Genmitsu, which Naomi "SexyCyborg" Wu made a video about recently, coincidentally *after* I'd settled on wanting to get that model! - and then hopefully I can get the holes drilled on that, which will be much more accurate, less effort, and potentially even faster :)
I use Vinyl cutter t cut out circuit form,,, better to use vinylcutter,,, laserprinter its not so good as vinylcytter,, and its be clean and very sharp...
mate:) no acid but alkaloid:) any way good job
rrrrooooooooxxanne!.
:)
i wouldn't say that is an easy method.....its expensive, messy and long way to finish
The easiest way its the heat transfer but its not as high definition as the
photo method.
Thanks for the comment. I find the photo method gives good professional results even when done by the hobbyist and is quite easy to do. As to cost I find it only costs me about 10 pense per PCB as I bottle and reused the same developer and Ferric Chloride Solutions several times (it lasts for many months). The main cost is the photo resist PCB which is about £3 per sheet of 160mm x 100mm this compares to a plain copper clad PCB which costs around half that price for the same size.
Don't take it personally, bril electronic work, terrible youtube making. Keep on rocken
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