3 Ways to Attenuate a Tweeter
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- Опубликовано: 3 апр 2019
- Ever want to learn how to match the volume of a tweeter to a midwoofer? Or maybe you didn't know there were multiple ways to do it. Watch this video to learn 3 different ways to attenuate a tweeter and why you might choose each method.
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Sound of video is very low () check your mic attenuation
Yes, please. I am surprised by how many of the audiophile videos have really poor sound quality. Seems like they would be a safe haven.
Can't pretend much quality in any case there's always youtube's compression
@@matteogirelli1023 YT compression don't affect overall vol, the presenter may be far away from the mic, DR compression makes the average vol louder, eg TV commercials
“Make sure your impedance isn’t out of wack” that’s a detail that needs its own video now. It would help us noobs out if we saw a good, bad and “what we could get away with” set of examples. Thanks for the content!
I'll try to do a video on that sometime. That's a good point
Thank you! I learned a lot especially about the first resistor right after your second order how it can help lower the high end if needed. Good stuff, thanks Toid!
Really useful video. Thanks.
You're welcome
this is the best video iv ever seen
Not sure how I missed this. It explains a lot. Thanks!
You're welcome! I hope it helps
Great content.
A resistor by itself is NOT an "L Pad". The "L Pad" gets it's name from the shape of the schematic symbols used in the layout.
A resistor by itself is an attenuator. Otherwise, another excellent video you have produced. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Hi there. Thanks for the overview although I am still a novice in full understanding with regards to the details here.
Do you do some course on this from the basics?
As usual, you're the man!
Thanks man
@@Toid Everyone that's exceptional needs to hear it even though they should know it. The kicker with you is you don't have an ego. My bands chose to do charity gigs when we could have had a paid gigs and because we did that without a agenda, we were recognized. We found ourselves on all of the rock channels FM Radio every day and the highest paid in the Metroland area. In this world of evil, good things still happen in due time.
If I wanted to try the resistor before the crossover on a 4" midrange 4ohm ( I know you recommended against this) in a 3-way setup getting about 35 watts max per channel, what precautions would I need to take ? I want to use a 5ohm resistor on each mid before the crossovers. Do I use two 2.5ohm resistors to dissapate the heat? Three 1.7ohm? Or don't try it at all?
i have a 6 ohm tweeter sounds nice but response(sensitivity) is low with respect to woofer ---- should i put resistance in parallel to increase sensitivity or something else ?
If you choose the third option and put the resistor ahead of the crossover, does the resistor not also attenuate the woofer or did you mean put the resistor in series ahead of the HIGH PASS crossover only and not the ENTIRE crossover? In my case, I'm replacing a tweeter in a 2-way speaker with another one that has nice flat frequency and impedance responses above the crossover point (2.5 KHz). As the replacement tweeter is a few dB higher in sensitivity than the original tweeter, would option 3 be the best way to go? I only want to knock the tweeter back a couple dB and not effect the woofer.
For more severe sensitivity mismatches - more typical when using compression drivers; you can attenuate anywhere from 1 to 12 dB with an Autotransformer. There are some drawbacks to using resistors for large sensitivity mismatches.
Could you please make some more videos on driver phase and time alignment... Really appreciate your videos...
Some of that is coming up. Thanks for the ideas.
I am choosing between the SB acoustics Satori TW29RN-B-8 and the Visaton KE 25 SC. To pair with a SB acoustics Satori 6,5" woofer. Does anyone have any experience with one of these two?
If you put a single 10W resistor before the crossover, would you also need to change the value of the cap/inductor? If I had an 8 ohm tweeter and an 8 ohm resistor, would I calculate my crossover as a 16 ohm tweeter? I know impedance ohms and resistance ohms are different.
How about one before the crossover network and one in paralel with the tweeter?
I have a question. I’m sure you’re busy so I’ll try to provide all the info you would need here.
Currently I’m using my stock Camry stereo. Non JBL package.
JL Audio 400/4 amp. 4ohm. 75watts per channel.
Kicker Component Set. 4ohm. 10watt minimum. 100w RMS. 300 max rms.
Kicker component speakers, but the crossover was separated from the pair, as, according to the terrible installer I went to, it was pulling too much power from the woofer and causing it to be low volume. So the woofer was wired directly to the amp, and the tweeters were spliced in as well. So the amp is powering both. Without a crossover.
My problem is twofold now. 1. My tweeters are distorting, they tried to remedy this by adding a capacitor. It’s not working. 2. My tweeters are much louder than my mid woofer. And I need to push the volume HARD to get my mids to really shine through the rest of the mix, and at the point my tweeters are distorting, and uncomfortably harsh. Plus, I know that without a crossover they’re likely to die.
My plan is this. 1. Install an Alpine ILXW650. 2. Keep or remove the capacitor but, take that crossover that was intended for both speakers, and connect it in line AFTER the splice that connects the woofer and tweeter to the amp, but before the tweeter. I do this in the hopes that 1. The crossover works as intended, and will effect JUST my tweeters and 2. If it does in fact drain power, and I know a passive crossover does, then maybe it will bring the tweeter volume into balance with the woofers.
Can you, or anyone else hear with knowledge advise if this makes sense?
Are the passive crossovers that typically come with component speakers set up in a similar way? If I'm trying to attenuate the tweeter, can I just add a resistor wired in parallel with the tweeter? If so, how do you choose a proper resistance value?
Yes! I've been trying to figure Out the same thing!
When looking at the impedance, is overall crossover impedance the main focus, and/or do you need to worry about individual driver impedance?
The overall crossover impedance.
Awesome, thank you!!
Brilliant, but can you use this on active systems
Would it effect anything if you put the parallel resistor before
the series resistor
It does. It will start to pull the lower to mid end down while leaving the higher frequencies rather unaffected.
Hi 123Toid. I try to download from libinst.com the Xsim but is infected. Do you know about another way to download form a secure source? Regards
I direct downloaded it from here with no issues libinst.com/Xsim/XSimSetup.exe
@@Toid -- U-Toob issued a malware warning when I clicked the link. :-(
@@editorjuno I saw that on my phone as well. All I can say, is that is the only place I know to download it from and no one has reported any actual malware/virus. So I am not sure why it comes up with that.
Thanks a lot for the knowledge you share!
I know it's not a right and accurate question, but I built a speaker and I need to attenuate the deep bass in crossover higher! do you have any suggestion?
I'm not sure what you mean. Sorry
@@Toid Thanks for the quick response. I mean the deep bass is to low and I want to bring it a higher level..
@@karafarinperesentati so you don't feel like you're getting enough deep bass? It's probably best to put this on the Forum to see what other people are going to say. Some of this is going to depend on what type of box you have it in what speaker it is things of that nature. But we can extrapolate a lot more information to see if we can help you. www.toidsdiyaudio.com/forums
@@Toid exactly. thanks again. I will put the infos and question in the forum then.
What are the effects of a parallel resistor post xover?
By itself? It just attenuates the tweeter down without really affecting the response. However, this will lower the impedance.
@@Toid Ah, gotcha, that makes sense. I can see that being an issue. I don't play with xsim enough.
it's basically a voltage divider circuit... like in potentiometer.
Would this work for any of the drivers to be installed? I want to attenuate a woofer
I definitely need a lot more information . The best thing to do is go over to the forum and let everyone know what you're trying to do so we can see if we can help. www.toidsdiyaudio.com/community
Fascinating. Since so many tweeters have a rising response the cheap big box store approach might have some real advantages. I normally think of using a pre-built adjustable L-pad to keep Z the same but now I wonder about using a series resistor to get the shaping and just a straight adjustable resistor in parallel with the driver to adjust level. Of course just an adjustable resistor in series might be nice in some applications as it would adjust level and slope at the same time. Might be good in highly reflective rooms.
Any suggestions on what to buy for adjustable resistors?
Hi! 123Toid I enjoy your vids to the point I decided to try to follow along with you and Kirby and that handsome guy from Canada. lol.... So I got the Omni Mic. I play the sine sweep. Then I think, shoot how loud do I turn up my stereo? How do I know when I have the volume at 1 watt or 2.8 volts? Anyone that reads this please answer. I want to get on with this new hobby but I hit a speed bump right out of the gate. Do I need one of those wire pinchy things electricians use?
All you need is a multimeter. Turn on your amplifier. Make sure that you've downloaded the audio files from the Omnimic website www.daytonaudio.com/index.php/omnimic-v2-precision-measurement-system.html The last two files are 50hz test tones to help setup your voltage. Play that. Then put your multimeter ends in the speaker terminals and the back of the amplifier. Turn it up until it reads 2.83v. Place your microphone 3 feet back.
@@Toid Oh my gosh, thank you so much for replying. I tried the pseudo noise and the meter was freaking out and I was getting new stuff overload. You are a great ambassador to this hobby. So glad I clicked back on here to see your perfectly worded reply.
I tested with the meter set on AC Volts Auto I got a reading of 2.78 and one volume click more gets 2.98. .....2.83 welp ya can't get there from here, so I will just go with the 2.78
How do you know how many watts value u should use for the resistor? Let's say you have a 100watts rms power capable tweeter. Great vid btw
That is a good question, that is not easy to determine, since there is not equal power distribution between frequencies. And some depends on your source. However, here is something that may help you: A 55w equivalent was published in a french audio magazine by Pierre Etienne Sirder about twenty nine years ago. They are based on Harwood's works at the BBC. So if we were to adjust this for a 100 watts, you would be looking at approximately.
Band (Hz) -> Power (W)
32-63 8
63-125 16
125-250 18.181818
250-500 18.181818
500-750 12.72727273
1000-1500 6.363636363
1500-2000 4.545454545
2000-3000 3.181818182
3000-4000 1.590909091
6000-8000 0.4
8000-12000 0.2
Use a software that can calculate it. Or just use 10W resistors in tweeter sections and 20W in mid, this should easily handle 200W total power.
I've always used relatively low-wattage (3-5 watts) resistors in the post-capacitor area of the tweeter circuit and have never had a resistor failure. I've even used a three watt resistor in series with an entire speaker system to raise the load impedance so an amp can safely handle it -- e.g. when the speaker DCR is < 3 ohms and the amp is rated for nominal speaker impedances of 4 ohms or higher -- with no noticeable heating of the resistor, even at high volume. It seems to me that the current in a speaker circuit is simply not constant enough for much heat to build up -- and thus lead to eventual failure -- in a series resistor, which in turn leads me to believe that the wattage rating of the resistors in most crossover networks is unnecessarily high. A pair of lovely old two-way JBLs I'm currently using are rated for amps of up to 125 watts, yet the resistors in the tweeter section of their crossovers are ordinary 10 watt wirewounds -- and it's well known that JBL tends to be pretty danged conservative when it comes to crossover design.
i.ebayimg.com/images/g/vmwAAOSwZ2tcWLfA/s-l1600.jpg
@@editorjuno Thanks Bruce, this was very helpful
your video is great. the information that i waited for towards the end (you said) is not there. I could not understand the Web site you went but that would work fine if they have examples. If you know the math that calculates these things that would be real helpful. I give you a 10 plus for good work. I am just new to this. I also gave you a ten because you do not sound like your riding a camel across the desert not in USA. Thanks
What software is this?
It is called x-sim. It is a free software to download for Windows
Here's the site: libinst.com/
It will also run in Wine under Linux.
2.1 with karaoke preamp bass trouble sub gain full setup എത്റ രൂപ യാകും.
Either you or youtube can read my mind.
Is there another reason for a resistor in front of a tweeter? Is it always to attenuate the Tweeter?
i thought this was going to be a video on how to make someone stop tweeting
Hey.. you need to watch your levels before you upload.. this one is really quiet.. I listen my phone and most stuff comes through loud and clear.. occasionally though I come across one like this, where doesn't matter I max my volume levels, it is a strain to hear.
Thnx
Thank you. I've fixed that in my newer videos. But since I'd these older ones suffered from this. I appreciate the input.
Yea volume is too low. I'm going to have to watch this later, because I can barely hear it here at my work. And I've got a fairly loud phone too (Google Pixel 2 XL, it has two speakers even).
I'll turn it up another six decibels next time
another video that would be excellent but the volume is to low , dont people watch there videos before uploading them???
Do you read your questions before posting them?
Volume is “too” low / watch “their” videos
My 8 y/o daughter has better grammar.
Please get a better microphone because the sound quality of this video sucks. No offense intended.
Way to pedantic for the subject. It would have been simpler to just have an L-pad and a tweeter. then a short explanation of how to use it to attenuate the tweet. . I new al of that already just never used or needed an L-pad before. Received one with zero instructions very strange way to sell a product. Just needed quick explanation of how he 3 tabs hook up.
You're saying you knew all the different ways to attenuate a tweeter and the effects it has on the response, but didn't know how to install one?
Please get a better microphone because the sound quality of this video sucks. No offense intended.