These Airbags Won't Deploy Unless You Pay $$$
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- Опубликовано: 10 май 2021
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If you have to pay someone a fee to keep you from being horribly injured, that's not a "subscription", that's a ransom.
iirc in USA they're trying to do this for their emergency services. Need a fire fighter, gotta pay more than just taxes if you want them to come right now. Need an ambulance? Gotta start paying a bit more. Need the police? Better have some money they can just "borrow" for an investigation lying around.
It isn't quite how they described in the video. You either pay all at once or you pay monthly/yearly until you reach the same value. It doesn't just shut off without warning it in fact gives you 2. You get a warning both on the vest and via communications like email 30 days before the payment actually expires. When it expires you will get a period of 30 days before the vest shuts down. If you are currently riding on that day it expires it will not shut off until you power off the suit or it runs out of battery. It will again warn you on the suit if you are on this grace period. The propriety, expensive argon canister replacements is what makes this scummy. CO2 is widely available, just as good and much cheaper but they went with a "send the jacket into the shop so we can replace it for you at a steep price with our stuff" kind of thing.
Not really, there are other opinions you could have purchased in stead of a subscription. The company’s business model is essentially to provide the best at a significantly lower cost upfront than other products, but the trade-off is that it’s got a subscription.
@@RikkSpencerYou can purchase an opinion? If so, mine is 25 Canadian Rupees.
@@RikkSpencer It isn't a subscription. You are paying the exact same cost over a period of time you select. There is no interest and it isn't a perpetual service.
Next tier: Artificial heart, that won't beat if you miss your subscription payment
Artificial Heart: "You won't miss a beat... ..unless you miss a payment."
There’s a movie about that, think it’s called Repo Men or somethin
Que repo the genetic opera
The worst part about this comment is it's theoretically possible. And humans are probably going to go Cyborg in some way in the next twenty years
@@joshpalmer4420 Yes, it's Repo Men (2010).
The fact that this can be "activated" with a subscription, means that it can be remotely deactivated too, isn't that EXTREMELY dangerous? imagine someone hacking into your airbag and deactivating it, even if you are paying for it.
Just no.
Or setting it off while you’re driving at an absurd speed
So then does this device require service? What if your in an area that has no service? (Service=internet/cell network).. if it doesn't then I'm sure it would be easy to "trick/hack" the device the be "unlocked" forever.
Or there's a bug where even if you're paying, it's deactivated lmao
Or making it go off while going down highway.
Functionality as DLC on safety equipment should absolutely be illegal. It's extortion. Even when it isn't an essential product, it's still unethical.
Putting a subscription on airbags of all things should be illegal as fuck. Like what the fuck are people thinking these days? Yeah let's sacrifice safety for a few extra bucks.
So as they pointed out, rather than 400 bucks with a subscription, you’d rather they sell it for 1,000 up front?
At that point it potentially becomes unobtainable from the start.
"In a bizarre news, a biker's airbag didn't deploy because his subscription expired a second before the impact."
They have a 30 day grace period.
@@nick7072 and what after that?
@@adityakhaprelap If you drive for 30 days and ignore the warnings from the device, that's on you.
@@nick7072 tbf it's on you for buying the damn thing😂. Just buy one that doesn't cost money lol.
his trial expired
remember the company invented the three point seatbelt didnt patent it or sell it, they just make the design for free for any company. way to go humanity
Yuup, guy was an engineer at Volvo I believe.
@@jat6758 Yep, Volvo in 1959.
And the billionaire car company uses it to make billions
@@thoongchinglee4905 No, Volvo released the patent allowing everyone to use the designs for free.
@@howard81 free? Can I quote you when I get a new car? They use the design for free, true, but still profit from it.
When the only "service" they offer is not turning off the hardware you already own...
That's not a service.
It's no better than a mafia's "protection fees"
Based on other comments, it seems that the subscription is limited terms until you reach the buy out price of 800 total.
If that is true, it's essentially a payment plan for a purchase, with $400 down and then rest over time. And if so, no, you don't in fact "already own" the hardware until you clear the payment terms. In the event of failed payment, it is the same as being repoed.
This is based on second hand info so I'm not sure if that's the actual business model.
This reminds me of early versions of AMD's RX 480 and 470 4GB models. Somehow they calculated that it would save them money to just make all of the models with 8GB (so that they didn't need to set up more than two different production lines), and then just install a different bios on the 4GB versions to disable half of the Vram. It didn't take long before someone figured it out, and you could download and install an unnoficial bios update which would literally double your Vram, and which would also increase the clock speed on the RX 480 model as well iirc. It was really weird.
Downloading ram, literally.
Thats probably a similar situation in just about every tech product, I bet you any money it costs the factory the same amount of money to produce a higher end product vs a lower end product. One with more memory or performance probably costs them the same, but they artificially overhype it to make it seem like one is much better of a value. I’d like to know the production cost of say a 3060 vs a 3080-3090. It’s probably not much at all.
@@jaredchampagne2752 I always just thought that they made all the chips the same way and the chips that werent as good as they need to be for a 3080 and so on was used for 3060's where it wouldnt matter as much
That had been happening way longer than that. Even my old 6950 could be turned into a 6970. That's... 3 generations back?
@@SlowFox444 I was under the same impression, it makes no sense to waste silicon in an intentionally worse product when you are paying the same, some flaws are expected in a portion, so those should be the lower end until you get unusable products, it also is better from a R&D standpoint, you only need one working system, specially with chiplets, since there you can just say "one chiplet is the low end, 10 chiplets is the high end". Also, this is why big companies want to fight right to repair, in it's full form it would allow people to do exactly this, restoring functionality that is already there, and i am all for it, if they can sell the product for that money then the physical cost is all paid for, i would only get if they charged for updates, not the best thing, i don't think it would be accepted, but it would be acceptable since that is extra hours of development for the software side that might not be included in the price of the product, but currently those cost are included in most products, that or it's community updated, because open source is the best for everyone.
Honestly just the thought that your SAFETY device is tied to a check that is connected to the internet is INSANE.
Absolutely! Airbag vests have existed for years now and worked very reliably with just a pullcord tethered to the bike and a small gas cartridge!
These guys are making a fully functional, simple and safe design much more complicated and introducing multiple additional points of failure, just to milk their customers. IN A FREAKING SAFETY PRODUCT!
It's completely asinine!
@@LRM12o8 let's not forget the ISPs that throttled the california fire department during the wildfires. We lost the fight for net neutrality, so things like that can happen at the ISPs whim. Imagine not only having to pay for all your safety features, but needing a specific expensive internet package to get those safety devices internet checks to pass through unthrottled. It sounds like parody, but it's literally already happened.
@@LRM12o8 Hey man, them shareholders gotta make a living. For their other mistress. Living on their fourth yacht. In the Greek islands. Costs money, see?
@@curvingfyre6810 That's not really net neutrality though. That was stupid data caps regardless of which data-plan you choose was it not? To solve that long term you need more players in the market, that's done by reducing the ability to monopolize (my understanding is that the monopolies in america are partly government enforced/supported). Short term it makes sense to pass a law stating that all ISP's must provide truly unlimited service to emergency workers, at a reasonable price, and prioritize those subscribers regardless of which cell tower they're connected to. Prioritizing subscribers is not really net neutral but when it's firefighters, police, or ambulance personal I'm okay with that.
As software dev working with telecom I can tell you that every ISP can do that with a press of a button today, it's a legal requirements in some countries.
@Ernst Kahn yeah it does, you might not have understood though...
Right to repair GUYS!. Own your own stuff! Don't let them own you!
+1
This 💯
Don't be an sjw
I think this is different though. More like general consumer rights
Products like that should be legally considered non-functional and bear an appropriate warning an all advertisements and placements
I can imagine this being shot down relatively quickly by law. “Safety devices should not be subject equipment fees”
Milage may vary by state/country.
Capitalism says no. It will not be shot down. That's what I am going with.
No. The legislatures are paid off, they almost always side with crooks!
Doesn’t even make sense yall saying this.
It’s not like this is a car with a seat belt locked, preventing use without the fee.
This is just going out to get something additional.
But again, would you rather something just cost double from the start even putting it out of reach for most?
On the tombstone: ”Had too high ping.”
remember when volvo invented the seat belt and released the schematics for free world wide as they knew it would save lives?
That Volvo sadly no longer with us.
@@anubizz3 i wouldnt be so sure about that, they still have the after taste
@@cbennetts2746 Lol, they're Chinese now
No they didn't that was a amarican and that wasn't in volvo that he put in first that was in a nash.
And the better version of the seatbelt was made by one worker in vattenfall, swedens state own energy company.
And the biggest reason that volvo put seatbelts in there cars was becouse they whould sell better in amarica, a place there they not sell cars yet at that point.
@@ThePapaja1996 ah yes the classic "america invented everything" simp. move along.
Ah, app-dependant safety devices. Welcome to a world where when your phone dies, so do you!
Lol this made laugh and get scared at the same time...🤔
giving a new meaning to be worried about your phone dying.
Phone dies for a month while you ignore constant warnings from the jacket
@@SciFiSecrets I'm sure it has its own sensors, and thats exactly the issue! There's no need for an app
haha sounds like an episode of Black mirror
owning physical devices with no remote service for a SUBSCRIPTION FEE should be a crime. Updates are different, but this product should work.
"I don't even know what my stance is on this..." - Linus
Do not buy it. Do not support it. And actively discourage it's support publicly. That's the proper stance.
linus is a prize ass.....
*Crash investigators on scene*
"Any idea why his vest didn't deploy"
"Looks like it was stuck on an Adobe update"
In a just world, investigators might then kick in the doors at Adobe's head office and start demanding answers. In a just world.
"Slowly moves hand over Adobe badge on jacket..."
@@kstricl TARGET SPOTTED!
Adobe airbag update: 600MB
it could be worse it could stop working because you updated JAVA to an incompatible version
This honestly sounds like an investor wanted a SaaS model without thinking about it or understanding the implications of such a model. The liability of this is huge and I would hope they "recommend" you pay in full and upfront.
In hardware, this is LITERALLY HOW YOU KILL PEOPLE.
What happens if your phone doesn't sync to the vest, who's liable then....
Bet you there's gonna be a huge lawsuit about this in the future
They probably have this covered in the term of service.
customer duh! /s
@@NizarElZarif there is things you can't cover in the terms of service in basically any developed country. And I feel like this will be one of these cases.
Latency matters in a crash...
My biggest problem with this is the second hand market...
Imagine you buy this vest on Ebay and have absolutely no idea you need to activate it!
Yeah... i have no thought of the second hand market on products like this. If you are dumb enough you would just drop $$$ on a product and not bother to do research or even look at the manual, especially on a safety device, i am not convinced the device failing is necessarily a negative for society and the gene pool.
To add on to the above statement, I wont go with websites like ebay for HDs because you never know if the HD is well over the expected lifespan or if the HD is under the lifespan but they used it in a "how long do HDs last?" video on youtube and decided to get their money back. If you are going to the second hand market for safety hardware where failure is not an option, you are either desperate, or incompetent.
In all fairness I would pay 800 dollars for a deployable that could genuinely save my life. I feel like if the price was just 800 dollars no one would care
Exactly. But they have a system that can apparently disable it over the internet, so a hacker or them can just go in and disable the airbag without your consent. It's extremely dangerous irresponsible recless and unethical.
But airbags cost thousands anyway… There have been cases when people break into cars to steal them.
@@kefpull6676 different kind of airbag, these are essentially electric fan powered balloons.
@@themotorcyclemasswhole From Klim's website under specs for the aspect 16 backpack:
• SUPERCAPACITOR POWERS RADIAL COMPRESSOR
• SUPERCAPACITOR NOT AFFECTED BY COLD TEMPS
• 2x AA BATTERIES RECHARGE SUPERCAPACITOR IN 40 MINUTES
It's powered by an electric fan (radial compressor). It's not the first to use this idea, but it is the first to use capacitors instead of batteries. Both c02 and batteries can be affected by the cold and supposedly this is better. Also it's a backpack not a vest. Avalanche safety is not a good subject think you're a know it all in.
Any company trying to take a product from a one time purchase to a monthly subscription plan deserves to be burnt to the ground, especially when it might cost someone their life. Screw this subscription model BS. I will go ridiculously out of my way to never purchase anything from that kind of business model.
I can see the merits for some products, but it is getting insane.
Yes Sir. Great to see you around here.
Just buy the 800 dollar version lol
Blacklist ceos and high priority employees from society
Good for you that you can afford it. Some cannot afford to have that kind of money. Its like "People renting houses are just throwing away money that they should use to finance houses instead. At least you will have an asset you can claim as your own by the end."...... Except buying property that way still requires lots of down payment from you that some people just cannot afford.
This should be illegal.
Imagine the same thing happening to cars.
People would lose their shit.
I wouldn't put it past cars to do it if airbags weren't a required feature in every model. Some car companies are doing something similar with heated seats that they physically put in every seat but you have to pay to use them.
Air bags and seat belts are safety features mandated by law by the government. If a car company pulled this shit the company would be shut down. But bikers get shafted since there is a loophole that this is a "fashion accessory" so they can pull shit like this. Sadly with the profit motive there will always be someone looking to get rich off the loophole regardless of who gets hurt in the process.
I almost lost my shit but I realized this wasn't a car, but it's still messed up AF.
@blupheonix44 I'm sure there's already an unauthorized after market fix already available.
@blupheonix44 But you paid for the seats when you bought the car ... there should be a law that makes certain things yours completely if you pay for it, including all aspects already in the item, so that you can't be charged to use something that's already in the system.
Some details have to be missing here, speaking as an engineer who has worked on safety-rated electronics... There is simply no way this airbag could meet a safety standard relevant to electronics/software in the US if it is setup exactly as you describe.
It's possible that the airbag vest industry is still too small or new for those standards, but this is also so ridiculous I feel like something is either not being explained by Klim or is being missed by reporters.
What I wonder is, what if the company goes away or if their servers go down? Does the vest suddenly not work?
I like to imagine that some malicious engineer just flips a switch and inflates ALL the vests at once if they go out of business.
This sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. Imagine if GM had all of their air bags just not go off, unless you pay mob fee
I completely agree that it's dumb, however car airbags are a legal requirement. Motorcycle airbags are not a legal requirement. Therefore it's difficult to sue.
If it is clearly stated on the product, I don't believe there are legal grounds to sue, it's like saying: "I didn't pay my house insurance so now that it burned I will sue as they are not covering it."
@@zynthssam7461 Now imagine you put in fire suppressant sprinklers and your house still goes up because you missed a couple payments on their sprinkler app.
If someone dies while wearing their jacket, that is a guaranteed lawsuit and I don't think it will go the way they think it will go.
@@jonathanbrown6034 That's the kind of thing you have to read as the consumer or person that requires a service, if they are upfront about their service fees and how you will be outside of coverage if the payment is missing. It is obvious (and tragic) that the company wouldn't lose the lawsuit if their paperwork is done in a lawful way.
@@zynthssam7461 that's why government exist, to catch naughty companies like this. This business model could literally kill people who didn't read the ToS or the whole subscription thingy, and just assumed the thing will work when needed. And when your stuff kills people, it will catch some regulator's eye or spark public outrage eventually, which could result the business model getting banned, or needing some kind of extra steps to ensure their product works when needed.
For now, yes, it is 100% legal and there's technically nothing wrong with it. But I believe it's just the matter of time until some state govt bonked the company.
Here's where I sit on this as an engineer that designs impact safety equipment. The biggest flaw out of this is the fact that it needs confirmation from an application to operate properly. That means if anything were to fail from the companion app such as a malfunction of a purchase not going through, or that the airbag can no longer communicate with the app, you have created a source of vulnerability.
Yes, plus the vest is engineered to not go off when you don't pay. That is scummy engineering right there. Engineering paywalls into tech is bad.
Yup. Failure modes are worth consideration. The good failure mode is "fail safe", the bad failure mode (this failure mode) is "fail dangerous".
There were app controlled chastity belts that got hacked to being permanently locked iirc
@@Palmtop_User but that's also just kinda funny. Tragic, I'm sure, but funny
I dont see a need for the connected software component. Accelerometers don't need to be connected to the internet to work and the amount of support needed for this product is almost nonexistent outside of normal situations that would require a recall at which point the connected feature is a benefit to the company more than the consumer.
All it takes is someone hacking their app and thousands of people die from undeployed airbags. This is insane
or maybe you just randomly deploy the airbags on people who are driving very fast
Another consideration with many motorcycle airbags is you have to send your vest back to the manufacturer to get it repacked and recharged. Not only do you paying to have the vest serviced whenever it goes off, but while it's gone you aren't wearing it. And that is one of the main reasons I bought a Helite vest, I just rearm the mechanism and screw in a standard 100cc CO2 canister. I own my airbag.
Klin is the same way. U screw in the canister. U only send it in after 3 deployments, so they can inspect it.
I hope cases spring up about people "jailbreaking" their $400 vests just to get rid of the subscription feature.
That would be theft though. Because if you don't want to pay the subscription you can just pay totally 800 dollars. By jailbreaking it they could get sued for doing it .
How on earth is that theft? If that’s the case then you don’t own the vest you bought out of pocket.
@@jacobc436 you own only part of the product for the remaining part you have to pay through a subscription. Those are the terms you agree to when you buy this product
@@jacobc436 They would argue that you own the vest, but not the software that runs the vest. That's what John Deere is arguing against farmers who have to crack their own tractors in order to service them.
@@johnsamuel1999 you pay for the vest you own the vest, you are free to do whatever you want with it at that point.
Literally having the power to save someone's life by doing nothing and intentionally stopping that from happening out of spite, is morally unjustifiable.
Literally murder by neglect in most countries... unless it's a corporation doing it.
Oh mate...you'll always find someone who has that mindset. Unfortunately.
Please don't talk about morals, you clearly don't understand philosophy of morality and ethics and your intellectual capacity is clearly that of a small child.
There is not a single product out there like that for $400, that price is selling it at a loss. But this price and an *OPTIONAL* subscription allow people who only ride periodically to be safer for cheaper. It also provides the same for those less fortunate.
You still have the normal option at $800, which is a very competitive pricepoint. This subscription model will allow more people to be safe, not less and having more options is better, not worse.
@@sujimayne Yeah...don't lecture me on morals and accuse me of being an imbecile while defending clearly unethical conduct and insulting others like we're in some kind of school playground. Learn a little maturity and some decency if you want to discuss things with...you know...adults.
Also, haven't MANY others already noted that there are cheaper, superior, and more reliable products already available? Selling at cost? PLEASE!
@@sujimayne I don't respect your opinion.
Him just saying “mom spaghetti” just made my night, don’t ask me why it just did
This is why I love old cars and am glad I learned to work on them. I’ve replaced the clutch on my own cars for less than 100 bucks. You can’t even replace a headlight without removing the entire front bumper in modern cars… have you seen that Mercedes EQ-something where you are not allowed to open te hood to your own car? Ridiculous!
Helite motorcycle airbags. Not high tech, but just as reliable. No battery will ever die, no subscription will ever run out. Recharges with a simple CO2 cartridge. Works by a tether like your jetski, or treadmill.
FortNine has a great video about different types of motorcycle airbags!
I expect the Helite to be more reliable.
But, then how do they get you to sign up for an account on their APP so they can also make a few bucks sharing your info, and sending you targeted advertisements, and possibly EVENTUALLY breaking you down into finally signing up for some sort of monthly service or other recurring charge?
bruh why did i read fortnite? 😂
Helite also has an electronic version of their airbag vest, which is only paired to the electronic box you put on the bike, not some subscription. I believe it was about 200$ more expensive than the tethered version and the electronic version was a requirement to sell to motor sports where they didn't want loose dangling tethers after a crash.
I have one since 2 years ago... Totally recommended. In Spain they are trying to make them mandatory for motorcycle riders
the worst part of a deactivatable system is that it can't be counted on to activate when needed. instead of limiting points of failure to the device itself, now there's points of failure outside of it, where things are way more complex and impossible to predict
I‘ve worked in software long enough to know not to trust anything connected to the internet with my life.
You do make a good point . Another point is that it needs to be recharged most likely. That’s why I choose to use one that mechanically inflates and is easy to refill the co2 cartridge.
My mom's car used to randomly not turn on due to the addition to the on board computer from the dealer that they use as a Killswitch in the event of a non payment. It constantly went off even after the car was paid off and she would have to call the dealer all the time.
On the massive list of things that could cause bugs to make your automatic AI crash detection algorithm not trigger, this is very much the least likely option
So I looked this up. The airbag is available as a permanently active item at $800, which is supposedly a similar price to other similar types of equipment. The subscription model exists so they can sell it to more poor people, and if you do have the subscription, you have a 30-day grace period if you stop paying, during which they will nag you to up your subscription.
Yup people don't like actually reading stuff up. They jump to conclusions
2:05
They offer a onetime or subscription model now.
They say its to lower the cost of getting into a airbag vest.
So either 800 upfront or 400+subscription
I would rather set $400 on fire than give this company a single cent. I hope they get sued out of existence.
They didn't touch the actual important bits here. Klim replaces gear you've crashed in, for free, for the first 5 years you own it. They will repair, for free, any of their gear for as long as you own it.
The specifics of this piece of gear, well, i dunno but I'm sure they have some justification. Alternatively, you could just not buy theirs and buy any of the other brands on the market. Once they get some pushback, they'll change their stance.
@@neoxaero even if what you are saying is true, this is the most agreedious planned obscelence.
@@neoxaero ya that’s what insurance if for bud. Automatically your stuff could be replaced/repaired through your personal insurance.
@@neoxaero the bits you’ve brought up accumulate to nill. They’re being scumbags.
Imagine if a you had a car, and you got tires for it. But you had to pay the initial |~2000 for them. They were special tires with some technology that gives you extreme grip in severe weather.
However, you had to pay ~60 a month to ensure that those wheels work. Otherwise they’re normal tires. Even then how can you ensure those tires have the appropriate communication with the servers to verify your payments.
Well I guess you’re out and about. You’ve crashed. It’s fine though. The company will replace your tires for your destroyed car and then your surviving family can sell those tires to some other poor fool so they can pay for your funeral.
But it’s fine. They replaced it within its 5 year warranty
@@neoxaero but thsts not what this is. you are not paying for a replacement you might need (if it was that we wouldnt be talking about it) you are paying to be able to use a product you already bought.
it would be like if you bought a phone and on top kf your cell phone bill you had to pay Samsung or google $50 to be able to use the phone. and if you dont pay you cant make any calls or use any apps. (other than calling 911).
this isnt a subscription for a replacement if you need it or anything like that. this is a subscription to use a product you have already bought.
Customer: why does this backpack cost $1000?
Razer: because you can put stuff in it
Apple: You guys sell a backpack that can have stuff put into it?!? ARE YOU INSANE!??!?!?!!
The straps, and option to unzip the bag are sold separately
razer: duh
Apple: And it comes with an extra* tag.
*for an additional fee of $500
*Because you can put your gaming stuff in it.
As long as it had an indicator to show its active it’s fine just like defibrillators it’s up to the users to check and insure the battery is charged based on the indicator. If I dawn a jacket I would check the indicator before every ride it wouldn’t take any extra time.
Also think about the code of the vest. Even if you have paid. The vest still has to confirm with the companion app which has to check with the company server to see whether you paid to decide whether or not to save you, right at the moment the vest decides whether or not to deploy the vest. That’s so unbelievably fucked.
I’d rather have it be a one time air bag that has a warranty seal that you cant get repaired if you don’t pay. That way it still saves your life, you still paid the company the money for the product, and you have the company still wins because you have to pay for another one if you want that security or peace of mind.
I can imagine, any company that disables a safety feature such as this is bound to be a lawsuit magnet for anyone injured after having the company shut it off, and I see the courts ruling in their favor with a statement saying, something to the effect of “if you sell a safety device, it should work, without requiring continuous payments.”
Not to mention, making this vest such that the safety feature can be turned off and on remotely opens it up to a host of vulnerabilities that’s not a concern with regular airbags
An autonomous car that sacrifices the passenger
You have too much faith in the courts
@@danthewolf1997 even if the courts don't allow this making people even consider ideas like this is a step in the wrong direction
Yeah, they're holding healthcare under ransom(Newfoundland healthcare computer hack) what's stopping them from just turning off everyone's IoT airbags?
yea i mean if you can afford such a device to begin with you should at least be able to afford a lawyer that is capable of making the argument that said device should work regardless. like how hospitals will charge you for ambulance fees and stabilization after they rush you to the ER and stabilize you (but not treat you - law states you only have to be in a stable condition - they'll happily let you die later if you can't afford their care).
If it can be disabled remotely, even if someone purchased it outright, that means someone else could potentially disable it as well
hackers are quick to prove that
It also means a not unlikely point of failure:
The software can fail and so can the connection to their servers. At any time!
(also: what's to stop them from shutting down the server or locking your model of vest out of the service in a few years time, so you can't activate the airbag anymore? Clearly a company that sees no issues in jeopardizing your safety if you fall behind on a subscription can't be trusted to provide proper long-term support for their products!)
There is no meme
Cyberpunk is real now
Person of Interest (the tv show) had a similar point. Any backdoor is too much access if you're trying to secure a system and keep it safe. Any access at all is probably too much.
This... App control for rgb is one thing... App control for yer life??? Are you stupid
There is one that inflates by a Co2 canaster that gets tripped from a tether you attach to your bike. Sure it's $700 but the times the electric ones and the ones that trip by a string is negligible and the Co2 one expands alot more giving you more protection.
In the UK there is 2 payments types one for street and one for track as the algorythem is changed to be better for the 2 types of riding its crazy my friend has one
Missed conversation: "What happens if this lock-out technology engages even if you are paid up, maybe because the Internet is down or the company becomes insolvent and its Internet servers no longer exist? Does your crap just stop working then? What about hackers and software updates 10 years down the road? Is this this thing is phoning home all the time?"
I contacted Klim several times since this product was announced and never got a response.
Great points!
They'll limit how far you're allowed to drive. If you're an elite you're unlimited, but a mere plebian can go to work and back
@@Emppu_T. but that's not the point of my post. It has to do with "The Internet Of Things" and how they stop working when the company discontinues the product or goes out of business. Also, how hackers will discover exploits in old devices that are no longer receiving regular software updates.
By making this gear connect to the Internet to check on billing status, it becomes an Internet Of Things device.
@@agvulpine if it does go off even if it isn’t paid for then it could simply send out a signal whenever it’s used and the computer system outside figures out if the customer need be billed or not. (Can you hack something only transmitting signals without receiving any?). There are the logistics of making sure that if you tamper with the signal it stops working but maybe?
Every. Day. Every day the Farnsworth “I don’t want to live on this planet anymore” meme gets more true
Peak capitalism, my friend. It's illegal to harvest rainwater in my town, but they'll gladly take my labor vouchers for "their" water. *Water,* because I'm not allowed to keep the stuff that falls from the fucking sky, apparently that's theirs too.
A ton of you refuse to accept what leftists have been saying for decades lol
We've been telling you shit's just going to get way way worse under capitalism and yet you always ignore it or attempt to explain it with something that is literally just a symptom of capitalism.
Wake up and push against it or embrace the corporate overlords, we're running out of chances to change what these vomitive human beings want to do with this planet.
@@CarlosFlores-pl3lb in capitalism u have chose if you don't want the jacket don't buy it
And buy the competitions jacket
Or just pay up front
I want to be able to make my own choices and capitalism lets me do that
End times my dude.
@@CarlosFlores-pl3lb you say things will get way worse but by any objective measure of living standards things are getting better. And yes, regulations are needed and responsible governments implement them but there is no doubt that a well regulated free market economy improves quality of life.
it would be interesting if they made a model that is almost like an insurance, say you pay the $400 and then the monthly. and then get a free replacement if you do wreck. and still keep the buy out option but it would get replaced if used
For the microcontroller e.g. STM32 which has clock frequency of 160-ish MHz, the time is basically stopped at the time of accident.
That's like getting a pacemaker and the heart surgeon is like: "Batteries not included fam"
Worse honestly
honestly no, batteries included but after every recharge you have to validate your subscription other way your pacemaker will think it's still discharged and turn off.
It's worse than that. It's like "Batteries are included, but we've remotely disabled them."
We're slowing turning into a lootbox civilization: Earth RPG
RNG airbags
+3% chance to deploy during an accident
400 coins
Advance airbag
800 coins
@@ascissordollynamedgwen9409 You've never had to deal with RNG, have you.
Khajiit has wares, if you have coin.
@@ascissordollynamedgwen9409 want me to call an ambulance? You may be having a stroke
@@ascissordollynamedgwen9409 EA be like
Surprise mechanics! Our Platinum tier deploys 99% of the time!
I get how their reasoning for the subscription could be to lower the barriers of entry, but bloody hell, they really are reinventing the wheel when there are so many financing platforms out there like Affirm and AfterPay, especially if you don’t need to pay for the subscription after a few years. This is a real masterclass in solving a real problem (assuming good intent) in the most complicated and misinterpretable way, and in a way that does an amazing job of making people take out their pitchforks
The irony is they'll make a whole lot less money when their customers die.
The worst thing about this isn't that you even have to pay a subscription, but that the tech _has_ the possibility to not work. If I was paying the subscription how on earth could I trust it to work because there _could_ be a software bug at the time of collision.
Exactly, if they can disable it, I would never trust it with my life.
This is exactly my thoughts, if there becomes something beyond just the device activating when needed is involved, then is it really safe? Too many extra variables to cause it to fail.
@@partariothe5th I just don't get it, but sadly we are here.
Yeah exactly. Remember how many times software stops working or crashes right when you need it to work, or when you're in a time crunch. Couple that with all the times a product you have faced network and connection issues. Now imagine any of that happening to this. You could have paid on time but the server didn't update in time, or a bug in the jacket causes the payment test to fail, or there's a design flaw and the jacket forgets the payment state when running low on battery power or whatever...
Basically this has happened with Escooters where they would lock up thinking they were not meant to be active…… www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/110333215/lime-admits-to-escooter-glitch-which-locks-up-wheels-at-speed-causing-excruciating-injuries
*airbags in cars don't use any app, so why does this, this is just to justify their greedy tactic, they don't need any app for the functionality. They indeed spent more to develop app to softlock the vest using the app. Regardless of usefulness of the vest, everyone should boycott this company and its such products else we will be seeing airbags in cars with subscription*
Indeed, make sure this dies and never re-appears again. Before its too late.
I agree, as that subscription model shows that the company cares more about their own bank accounts than their customers.
@@kbhasi As do most companies. The difference here being that this company is willing to play with people's safety, or even their lives. Unconscionable and dystopian, if you ask me.
Did you even consider linus’s argument
Can you imagine the PR team saying we are sorry and investigating why our vest did not deploy. We know He/She had their subscription payed in full but their vest did not recognize they where all paid up. The vest should have given an indication. We are pretty sure it has something to do with the 2.5 update. Rest assure we are working around the clock to address the problem. All vest are now unlocked; we currently have no comments on the civil suite.
After talking to a few lawyers here in the CT (United States) If you pay for a safety device (something marketed as a safety device) it must be fully functioning at the time you buy it. Paying for it to keep working buy way of paying a service fee or monthly fee may be a violation of up to 17 Federal laws and 5 Laws in the State of Connecticut. All 6 lawyers said if even one is sold here in CT they will be more then welcome to represent the buyer if the buyer gets injured because the device failed to work regardless of if any subscription is paid. I say the company should avoid selling it in this State.
Same thing with OnStar. If you stop paying the Service for any reason it will not contact emergency Services in case of a accident. Even though the system still recognices your accident. It just ignores it. I believe.
LTT store will now have a subscription plan for their water bottles. If you cancel the plan, LTT will back charge you on every fill up after the 30 day grace period.
Also, the bottle may explode if you don't pay your subscription.
And then someone will say "So? Just keep paying for it if you want to live. There's nothing at all wrong with carrying around an explosive that checks your bank account to determine if you get to keep being alive or not."
that title sounds like something I L L E G A L
Unfortunately motorcycle airbags are additional personal safety.
Like wearing all proper riding gear with impact resistant pads for a fall, reinforced ankle high boots to prevent crushing your ankle in a fall, a good full face helmet and Kevlar layers in your pants and jacket for a short slide.
Other then the bare minimum like a certified road legal helmet and a registered bike, you often don't need to wear any of the others in order to be allowed to ride in most places around the world.
As shit as the practice is by that company.. it's not uncommon AT ALL to not allow you to actually use a tool or machine without a software activated license.
And with everything now being always connected to manufacture' servers for firmware updates, software updates, etc. turning off functionality afterwards. Is only going to get worse in the coming years without some sort of legal limitations for those companies.
Where money can be made, some will go to extremes to make those few extra cents. Just don't support them by buying into their products if you can.
If it was a car, it totally would be
@@dbldekr no it wouldn't -- how the hell is wearing an inflatable jacket that no longer works illegal
@@firstname4337 Smells like ancap/libertarian/temporarily embarrassed millionaire in here
Because the title is moronic clickbait.
The question I have is what happens if there's a connection error to the server and it fails to recognize an active subscription?
I have the Ixon branded model which is very similar. The subscription model reduces the cost of entry and comes with a few benefits compared to just buying outright.
With more competition, price would come down further.
Full airbags, unlocked, all dlc, all languages included: provided by *Skidrow*
_Just wait for it, if there is need there will be a solution_
Passenger: Vehicle, check all systems, ready the safety equipment.
Vehicle: im sorry, im a afraid i can't do that.
Can I have synthwave play ?
@@redshift912 yes
lmao
They really got the [RELOADED] release of an airbag
Stuff like this blows my mind. I'm sure that some service like this, where a safety device does not work in an emergency, is straight up illegal here in Australia.
As it's illegal here in Australia to disable any safety device related to any vehicles/motorcycles.
Except this isn't related to any vehicle or motorcycle. It's not part of the vehicle it's a piece of clothing.
@@antikommunistischaktion That does not make it any better though.
@@TheByQQ no, but it explains how they skirt the legal line.
@@Golinth don't buy it if you cant afford it, or better yet, don't buy it if you suck at financial plan and can't consistently pay 12$ monthly
Pretty soon we will have pay a subscription to use our toilets. A sh1tty move by corporations. :) Lol...
This tech works but it's been around for a while. Check D-air from Ducati. Been around since 2016 if I remember correctly. It's expensive gear but no monthly fees.
The gear links and activates immediately once you start riding the motorcycle. It's incredible tech.
Attach the device to the bike via bluetooth/wireless/rfid that only ticks the timer while you're riding, and charges you a bill at the end of the month based on time spent riding. Like a cell service. Time:protection plan.
If the company shuts down or stops updating the model, wouldn't that make the best unusable? Other companies with these options have.
If the company shuts down then the vest most likely stops working after your subscription period + grace period end (since you cannot renew the license), unless it's the $800 version (no license renewal needed). Whether the vest is 'updated' or not shouldn't be relevant. The vest has security indicators if it works or doesn't.
Imagine still wearing this not knowing the company was shutdown.
Up next: weed that doesn’t get you high unless you sub to the grower.
I mean they technically already do that with CBD over the counter bullshit. They have been proven to be nothing but a farce and the "lab results" are nothing more than them paying a company off to state bullshit. Your subscription service would be you getting a medical card or paying the ridiculous taxes when you go for recreational. It's already happening and you're just not seeing it. Trust me I've been in the Illinois medical cannabis program for 5+ years. Shit is just getting more and more expensive too.
@@zoinksxscooby Indeed. I often miss the old days buying good weed from a friend or the neighboorhood stoner for a good deal for being a repeat customer or referring people, but than again it's also nice to have the reliability and options you get with a dispo - even if its very overpriced for what you get.
@@zoinksxscooby yeah, Canada is a lot better than the US. Weed is a lot cheaper here too. I pay 60 CAD an Ounce for good shit, 75$ an ounce for amazing shit, 20-25$ a gram for Shatter, 30$ a gram for Diamonds, 10-15$ for a gram of hash, and 45$ for a 2.5ml syringe filled with oil.
The percentage of the weed I get for 75$ an ounce ranges from 22-25% THC with the 60$ shit ranging from 15-20%. I’ve had percentages tested before of the shit I’ve bought and not once has the label been off by more than 0.2.
I guess it helps though that our marijuana industry is controlled at the federal level rather than provincially (US state equivalent in Canada)
@@ThatHoserCanadian federal level legal weed please
“Your subscription to safety has expired because you didn’t update your credit card info.” This is a lawsuit waiting to happen
I have an avelanche airbag pack. haven't had to use it for real yet tho which is nice
and the bicycle helmet you're talking about is a swedish invention called the Hövding. it is a collar you fasten around your neck and it deploys if you have a fall.
Subscription models on software or hardware is a deal breaker for me
if there is a subscription to it, there's a foss version of it.
Totally agree I avoid software as a service and will definitely avoid hardware as a service.
Software as a service makes sense. Digital platforms need to update. And they do. So the software has to adapt to that.
You can't just stop supporting and developing any professional software. That would mean it ends up useless for the people that bought it.
And because you (or a team) need to work on it indefinitely for it to keep functioning, it's only logical to make it a subscription service.
software is debatable, because if it's something that needs updates, devs need to be paid. but hardware there is NO excuse. if it needs maintenance, charge labor, otherwise its a sale and when purchase is complete they're done. they shouldn't be able to do or unlock anything after point of sale
Sub makes sense for a mmo since it's a long-running service, they need to keep servers up and develop big updates. Not all games can live off cosmetics only and "free" p2w games suck.
"they can expect it not to inflate in the event of a crash" I read that as "It is supposed to deploy, but we don't guarantee it"
it may be that they have insurance for the subscribers so that if it doesn't work and they get sued, they have a way out. And if the users don't pay subscription, they aren't covered by the insurance.
Which sounds like sales talk to avoid accountability
@@jameshetherington1 That is exactly what I believe it is. They just won't pay up if their thing doesn't work if you don't pay for the subscription
If there is a way to turn it off electronically, then there is a fail point at which even if they are paying or own it out right something can go wrong and it could still not fire.
About the Hövding helmet, I see that thing being used more often then regular helmets nowadays in Sweden.
Safety equipment should not be subscription based. They should just sell it for 800 up front if that is their margin and it should work all the time.
You have the option though. The consumer has a choice. If I ride my motorcycle 1 month a year this would be good if I didn't have to pay 400$
i would be ok with a $50 a month thing for if it goes off they will send you a new product and after 5 years they send you a new one of the original dosn't go off.
Option is nice and it is an illusion. Somethings should not be left to choice or option. Seatbelts were an option, and you had to pay extra to have them installed way back in the day. They come standard now. There are similar safety features in everything that is a standard that must be met for products because they are safety equipment.
The new hip thing for the private industry at the moment is "service" instead of "product" and there are examples around the world where you buy something, say a washing machine, but pay a monthly fee extra for the privilage of using that thing.
This, is a safety equipment, while there are other consumer dangers for those practices, this as I said is a safety equipment. It should not have a "this might not work" posibility.
The bike bike helmet is called Hövding. It is a airbag helmet which is designed in Sweden. It is a big thing in Scandinavia. It works... and you don’t lease it.
Precisely - they are a very popular alternative to bicycle helmets here in Denmark!
>You don't lease it
Don't worry, they'll soon realize all the money they're losing and stop production of all models that don't require a subscription.
thats so overkill for a bicycle. even wearing a helmet is pretty pointless. if you cant ride a bike without accident, then you shouldnt be on one
@@Blox117 Would you make the same argument about seatbelts? If you can't drive a car without accident, then you shouldn't be driving one?
I don’t trust the one time upfront fee to activate. I’ve done this for software and it always gets deactivated and turns into a time sink of trying to get a company to honor their agreement.
The only software I buy is for one payment of a lifetime license. My only exception is anti-virus software which has to be kept updated, which I feel warrants the yearly payment.
this is basically like paying a couple hundred dollars for an AED defib kit but the company also wants you to pay a monthly subscription to be able to use it
To think they could have just offered a financing plan but they went out of their way to do effectively the same thing but make it look way more dystopian. Excellent PR move.
If you actually research into it you'll find that this IS in fact a leasing option! This video is incorrect. Their reasoning for making it so completely makes sense as well
@@Ripcode2233891 Sorry but this business model is still scummy. You have standard leasing contracts for that without an app.
@@nulian Please do explain
@@Ripcode2233891 like when you buy a car - you sign a contract, you get the car for less than it's outright cost, and basically pay back a loan - if you don't pay, you're in debt and they'll send the debt collectors round
which is the CORRECT thing to do, instead of disabling a life-saving piece of kit.
It really shouldn't be something that can fail due to lack of an internet connection etc.
@@Ripcode2233891 The app and deactivating feature are a points of failure. If you want to offer a payment plan that's fine but this is scammy and the fact that people try to defend it is sickening.
My concern is using an app based product thats dependent on the app for its functionality. What happens if there is a communication issue between the product even if it's activated? Also, what tracking does this product have and what are they doing with that information? I am sorry, these subscription based services are getting a little out of hand. Soon cars will be subscription based, homes, clothes, toilets, bandaids....
Aren't homes and cars the earliest subscriptions (renting/leases)?
@@planefan082 yeah but you don't need an constant internet connection and a terminal like device (smartphone, phone computer) to keep their subscription active.
@@planefan082 Since you can get a working old car for very little money (I only paid €100 for my Volvo), leasing or renting a car is a truly stupid financial decision. Comparable to buying a phone for a monthly fee.
When the time comes to rent my underwear, I will live naked. The nudist revolution is coming!
I'm ok with renting a toilet if it comes with a cleaning robot and has a blue tooth speaker.
yah I was against at first but the barrier to entry is compelling for sure and $12 is pretty reasonable and they would have to pay lawyers to go after them if they let it work and after the fact debt collect and that can be more of a headache than its worth.
they took "You will own nothing and you will be happy" to the next level
We're on our way to a microtransaction filled dystopian future.
Its all the fault of the Organization called SERN.
@@makisekurisu4674 hello there fellow scientist.
@@imgladnotu9527 El psy kongroo!
Ubik. Philip K Dick warned us. (And I even think his paranoid speed-freak @$$ would have said "wait that's a pretty nutty thought forget it that's crazy")
Cyberpunk is real
There is no meme
Just wait for the first injured person wearing it, there is a duty of care in the legal framework, if you can prevent an accident or were present at an accident and did nothing to assist you can be charged with 'indecent public outrage', you may not be there in person but remotely your company is through the use of the product and app!
I personally use a vest similar to what this. The main difference is the one I use cost around 250$ and instead of software and sensors to deploy the airbag mine uses a tether attached to the bike
2:31 yeah like 6-7 years ago
Imagine staying up-to-date with your payments on this safety feature, only for the device's software to fail and the owner dies in an accident. The legal liability would be insane. I think this is a really bad business model. I'm also curious about how easy, this thing would be, to hack on the aftermarket, and reprogram it to use an open source app on your phone that doesn't rely on the manufacturer's service. All the service really does is turn the feature on or off, everything else it needs to deploy should be built into the hardware.
Yup. The device likely can be jailbroken to flash custom software to activate regardless of the payments.
Assuming you can take it apart and put it back together as it's likely all glued together.....
I *suspect* it's fail-safe. Meaning that it WOULD deploy, unless it received instructions NOT to. At least, that's the only way i could see this NOT leading to company-destroying lawsuits...
@@necrojoe
I essentially guarantee it's not.
If so, you could just subscribe, cancel, uninstall the app out of range of the device and it'd be none the wiser.
It likely has a schedule that it has to recheck if you've subscribed, and if it doesn't get a validly signed response, it will deactivate.
"In&Motion make the vest automatically deactivate if you don't meet their terms, even when you buy the vest "outright." The terms are about more than payment. What In&Motion continues to demand of buyers who have fully paid for the vest is their data. In&Motion lays claim to the fully paid-for vest buyer's data indefinitely and will deactivate the vest if the data isn't provided."
Ahhh so they kill people for money. Nice to know murder is still legal if only through a legal loophole.
OMG That is evil!
this is even more dystopian that the continuous pay part
It makes sense. These days, you're only of value to a company as long as they have current, marketable data on you. If your data is dead, you might as well be, too.
So what happens if the company shuts down? If they're able to turn it off and on at will then they need people/software to monitor who's on and not. If the company goes under presumably the software and employees go with it so will they just remain on/off indefinitely?
Favorite part of this is linus falling for the cane sugar cola scam at the end
charnging multiple times for not paying and it still deploys makes full sense to me. But having it not deploying at all is basically the company saying dude you are our costumer but your life don't even worth $400. That's really some dystopia bs
its like hiring a security guard and you get late on his pay and he decides to let someone rob the bank cause you were late with your subscription.
wonder if Hackers get in on this action and ending up causing "accidents" to happen.
If it was worth $400, you would've just paid that extra amount to begin with.
@@m-w-y7325 It's actually more like an ambulance driver deciding to let you die because his paycheck hasn't cleared yet. And the law being on his side, saying that even if he shows up for work he can decide not to do anything at all until he has the money in his hands.
@@flameshana9 That's one of the few reasons I'm glad I live in Queensland. No ambulance fees here. There are in other states/territories though, just nothing like as high as in the U.S.
Mafia works the same way. Pay me if you don't want to me to burn your activity. Pay me if you don't want me to make your device stop tomorrow work.
That's also how government works
@@ffwast Yeah but at least government is elected by people
@@ffwast That's also how jobs work. Do you have *any* idea how much value you produce vs how much you get paid? It's usually something like 3 or 4 times what you get paid. for *everyone* except people who make money without working by owning things instead, the parasites. Its a tax a few hundred times what you pay the gubberment, and it's only applied to people who make an honest living. However, if we made those jobs democratically controlled, like we do our government... well, before the government was democratically owned, we called that feudalism, and paid about that much in levies. We could expect similar reductions in that "invisible tax".
@@ffwast under which I government are you living?! 😁
@@BriefNerdOriginal literally any government. Try not paying taxes and see what happens.
the very fact that there is a remote disable function for an item like this is abhorrant and should be instant grounds for immediate lawsuits.
6:24 some of them already charge you after it goes off because you have to send it back to them to get checked for damage and replace the inflation cartridge
"you will own nothing and you will be happy"
"Hmmm. Our products aren't selling, and we have no idea why!"
"I thought everyone loves subscriptions so much that they'd be willing to literally put their life on the line for one??"
One would hope it ‘fails safe’ as there could be multiple ways it could fail if not designed well or even if it is adding this additional point of failure (ie should it work or not/subscription paid) is asking for potential misfires even if paid up.
Remarkable connect subscription is in a similar vein
It reminds me of the "Rероmеո" movie. Life saving device as a service, disabled and/or 'extracted' when not paid for.
glad someone else has seen that movie
The idea that someone had to code in a check to see if someone paid their subscription in case of a crash 😅
As a programmer I straight up would have refused to do such a thing. Even to the point of obfuscation of the code so that higher ups would be able to falsely test to have it check, but the program wouldn't actually care if the check was true or false and would deploy regardless. I would not let such unethical BS blood be on my hands as a programmer for greed.
It hurts for me to imagine how much they must've been paid to create that.
As a programmer, I would do the feature... but make it trivial to hack, maybe even leak anonymously a howto.
collections is definitely the way to go with this. i can't believe their not doing that.
so their website says you can ether buy it outright for 400 or pay a subscription for it to get it without the large price upfront, with the subscription you also get a new vest every 3 years.