Barton Jenks' Model 1867 Rolling Block Trials Rifle
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 16 июл 2024
- / forgottenweapons
www.floatplane.com/channel/Fo...
Cool Forgotten Weapons merch! shop.bbtv.com/collections/forg...
Barton Jenks was parts of a family rifle with inventors. These included Joseph Jenks, who was granted the first patent in the American colony in 1646 (for a sawmill design), his uncle William Jenks who created the Jenks Mule-Ear carbine, and his father Alfred who was an innovator in textile machinery. When the Civil War began, Alfred and Barton had a very successful company manufacturing machines for working wool and cotton in Bridesburg Pennsylvania. They tooled up to make rifles for there Union, delivering more the 100,000 during the war, and in the aftermath of the conflict Barton invented a rolling-block style system to convert muzzleloaders into breechloaders.
Unlike the Remington rolling block, the Jenks Model 1867 did not rely on the hammer to lock the breech, and thus was able to integrate the breech opening and rechecking into a single action. He submitted his rifle to both US military and New York State trials in 1867, but it failed to win either. Jenks did not opt to continue work on the design, instead moving to other fields and inventing mining equipment in the 1870s.
Jenks’ patent for the Model 1867 can be seen here: patents.google.com/patent/US7...
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
6281 N. Oracle #36270
Tucson, AZ 85740
Just want take this time to thank Ian for all he has taught me over last few years. The amount of interesting history and engineering I've learned as well as just straight up entertainment I've enjoyed is invaluable. Double thanks for having such amazing content stacked up so we can all keep enjoying new episodes throughout this time!
Hear, hear!
100% agreement there
Even at the dawn of the era, the rifled barrel is the heart and greatest expense of a firearm. Not surprising that rifled musket conversions were considered such a good idea.
Especially with steel barrels becoming more popular. Steel until the 1870's is an expensive and difficult material to work with...
In relation to that most firearm categories are _some_ kind of rifle I mean assault rifle, sniper rifle, anti-materiel rifle, scout rifle, marksman rifle, sporting rifle, spotting rifle, battle rifle, etc.
And most guns that aren't rifles have rifling anyway like machine guns, pistols, revolvers, etc.
Lets hope that whoever gets this is a fan of this channel and that he or she takes it to anvil gunsmithing to "do the maintenance" and we get an in depth video about it from Mark Novak
Hear hear.
For those curious, Bridesburg, PA is basically Philadelphia metro area (the upstream side on the Delaware River)
What the real reason was we may never know, whether it was actually worse than the successful rifle, whether it was the army being conservative with their suppliers, or whether it was outright corruption, all are possible. In this era how many times do arms industry insiders win the trials despite the deficiencies of their products?
@@Sableagle That was merely a government armoury product. The contract was rushed through to give the appearance of it being a going concern for privatisation. Government being corrupt which is wholly legal when it says it is.
@Christie Malry Maybe. The occasional weapon blowing up in soldiers' faces was an acceptable risk in the 19th century though.
FN SCAR in the US SOF SCAR trials. is a prime example
When did the outright corruption stop?
@@Sableagle not a good example. It's a decent piece of kit in all fairness.
"...and lost basically his entire fortune in railroad speculation."
Lesson learned: Just because you're a genius, doesn't make you a smart guy.
The Rogue Wolf 👏🏽say it again for the people in the back!!!👌🏾
Jay Leno brings up constantly “This is a great vehicle. The creator was a genius! But like most geniuses they were bad businessmen and died penniless”
To be fair, losing your entire fortune in railroad speculation was the national sport for much of the second half of the 19th century. We think the economy is a roller coaster in modern times? Boy howdy. Just plug "panic of 18" into a search engine and see how many different autocompletes you get...
@@ZGryphon I just tried that and the entire list was indeed filled with purely different/unique numbers hahahaha
I love how these have the same profile as Flintlock mechanisms. I wish they caught one
I really enjoy forgotten weapons more for the history,but do like the look of the old weapons to.👍
Makes me wonder what guys like Jenks would have come up with if they were born in a different time...
For some reason I enjoy "what ifs" like that, still nice video on a gun I had never heard of :-)
He came up with a small machine shop in nw pa and some kids. Machining was passed down along the line. Till me there's been no gunsmiths in the fam line. But i got a few guns in design but not yet prototype stage.
@@stevejenkins9984 Well best of luck to you.
@@stevejenkins9984 I'd say I hope you end up an this one day, but that probably wouldn't be ideal for you.
Very cool, rollingblock rifles of all types are interesting.
I can hear Mark Novak screaming, "Do the maintenance!" now, while looking at the condition of these rifles. I hope the new owner does them justice.
Bridesburg is now a section of Philadelphia. I am not certain if it was at the time Jenks made these rifles, but it would not be surprising if he simply marked his rifles as Philadelphia manufacture. Small point, but historically interesting. Thanks for another great video!
It's worth mentioning that the Jenks Machines works was just across Frankford Creek from the Frankford Arsenal.
Me: I wish i had a family like Jenks'.
Also me:
Nevermind, i'll be the downfall of that.
Wait a minute. He speculated then lost everything in the railroad industry?
Would Barton Jenks be in any way related to Downing B Jenks? If so boy do I have news for you...
👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀
I also had that thought.
As soon as Ian said Jenks I thought of Jenks blue on the MoPac.
Lovely video!
FYI (and that of your viewers,of course) Bridesburg is actually part of Philadelphia, having been incorporated about 1850.
This would explain the Philadelphia on the receiver.
Thanks as always!
Gun Jesus blesses us with wild west firearms.
Keep up the good work Ian! Its really a privilege to get to see these weapons in this detail. I'm an Aussie so i don't have the access that you have, but have had the interest!
Awesome video Ian. These types of rifles and these types of stories must feel so cool to unearth. Glad i get to share it with you.
Your videos are the coolest thing on RUclips, thanks for your work!
Hats off for the designer. So simple and efficient!
I love the Rolling Block system !!!!!!!! Thanks for showing these peaces of history , Ian !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you , Ian .
that first one looks so good from a distance and so crusty up close
So very crusty.
Another great video. Thank you.
That lock mech is still clever, never mind the simple nature of the breech lock, still clever... that dual stock or parted furniture setting, must have been heavy..
Hey Ian, in one of your previous videos you implied that using match heads instead of black powder was a really bad idea, well that got in interested and I came across a video on ammo channel where he used match head in a 38 special. Could you do a video on this topic ??? Please keep up the fantastic work
it 'might' be possible if you know exactly what you're doing. but generally the combustion of the match head mixture is far too intense; I think? probably a 'leave it to the experts' scenario.
It's something that is shown in US Army Technical Manual 31-210, as an absolute last ditch improvised weapon. A lot of the concepts in there are really a little optimistic both in access to materials and in effectiveness.
Nice rifles and interesting history.
Looks like a job for Mark Novak
Agreed
Another blessing!
Awesome clan. Jenks rock!
A very interesting mechanism.
Interesting. I've seen this mechanism in several Belgian and French flobert guns. I didn't know it originated somewhere else.
It looks like it would be easy to fire these without the breech block locked, unless there's some safety interlock that we couldn't see.
when you think youve seen it all ......here comes Ian ...
10:52 Sounds like a good idea for an exclusive and very expensive collection of forgotten weapons.
Dang it, Rock Island, clean your wall! I keep thinking I have a smudge on my monitor.
I believe it was Alfred who was a major donator to the Williamson Free School of Mechanical Trades. The dorms were named after major contributors, my dorm was..... Jenks.
Bridesburg is a borough of Philadelphia and is the location of the Frankford Arsenal so lots of firearms history there.
found one of these in the attic, likely originally used by the norwegian military, missing all its guts except the trigge tho, but still a very cool thing to have
Really interesting. Fabulous workmanship, considering the date they were made. A feature on how guns were made before electricity would be great.
Halving fired a 54 monkey tailed Jenks carbine I love these two also. The post CW -1900 time frame for arms design it the most interesting.
@@pacman10182 As JMB was born in 1855 I think this was before he had too many patents. :-)
👀was there a Leeroy Jenks? 😂
well, there WAS....
Goddamit Leroy
@@supremeghost7950 💀💀😂
Yeah, he was Pioneer in Meme Technology.
Sometimes the best doesn't always win
You should do a vid on the Jungle Carbine, I feel like not many people know much about it
He did.
Is there anything that ensures the locking block is fully engaged? It looks like if the tab on the lock was jostled out of position, the breech would still be fully forward but totally unlocked.
With the Remington pattern this was a nonissue since the hammer itself was the lock, maybe that’s why it was rejected?
"Zoinks!"
"Ruh-roh!"
J E N K I E S
Cost was less to grab a trapdoor conversion. The jenks family always been a half step behind lol damn it
Nice
You tube movies uploaded a movie a couple days ago called "Emperor" about Hirohito and Macarthur directly after the war. Great movie and it's FREE.
Not bad to watch once although Tommy Lee Jones was miscast. But it's free so worth a watch definately.
I knew there was a reason I like to look up patents. You should retitle your video “Sutvan - Jenks Model 1867 Rolling Block Trail Rifle”. A little research revealed that Isaac Sutvan a “draftsman, of Bridesburg, in the county of Philadelphia and state of Pennsylvania” was the actual inventor of the breech mechanism (patent 46,866 issue 14 March 1865 Improvement in Breech-Loading Fire-Arms). He assigned the patent “to Baron H. Jenks, of the same place”. Let us give credit where credit is due!
super!
I wish I had a mustache like Ian. I could get his style of beard but my mustache will never be as full and wonderful as his.
The naval arms Henry lever action, patented in 1866.
Nuff said!
when the breach is lockd and the lever is up how do you use the sights ?
Interesting!
Those barrels are so long you can shoot into next week.
would seem a pity to break up the set.
One of the 3 main characters in “No country for old men” name was Llewellyn this is the only other time I’ve heard of a man named that
Move to Wales, all the Llewellyns you could ever need!
Joost van Schijndel interesting,so it’s a common male name there?
@@rifles_up2263 yes, as is Jones , Williams and your surname Roberts. Watch Zulu and you'll know what I mean
marksandsparks1 🤙🏽Rite On
G'day Ian I was wondering if you can track down a albini braendlin rifle. Cheers
Send it to Mark @ anvilgunsmithing. I'm sure he would greatly enjoy conserving this historic piece
I would like to see a vid on why rim fire was so popular i the first cartridge guns.
I think it’s mostly because rimfire cartridges were easier to manufacture
Is that rifle closest to the camera painted?
I kept expecting some video or even just words about the sites. It looked like the operating lever would be in the way of or very distracting to the sites.
Reminds me of my Floberts !
Remind me awfully a lot of flobert rolling blocks
Any chance of a video on the Needham conversion rifle? I'vve read the articcle on tthe wewebsite, but my paternal gradfathther was a Needham and family history say he was desccended from Joseph or George. My uncle had a framed copy of the patent on his wall for years. Therefore I would love to see a video on this rifle, but I have no idea how rare/unobtanium they are.
Love the channel! What, if any, are the differences between a carbine and a rifle?
Carbines as a rule tend to be both shorter and smaller than a full length rifle. They are often chambered in pistol cartridges though not always.
Even though this is a clever design, it definitely has some draw backs compared to a Remington roller...the biggest thing is , this action limits the length of the cartridge..with a Remington, the hammer and breech block roll almost completely out of the way so you can stuff just about any cartridge in that you wanted. The other thing is,I think that hammer spur would surely get snapped off with hard use..
Hey Ian, would you do videos about Erma .22 luger in the future?
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Remington Rolling lock mechanically simpler and easier to manufacture?
Hello Ian great video, are you going to make a video about the High Standard Model 10 Series A Police Shotgun? i seen it was currently up for auction and it looks like quite the strange rig, please consider it thanks brother
What were the cartridges used in each rifle??????
I want one
Is it just me or does the locking tab block the sight picture
Have you seen THIS before?!
I wonder if it is best to just leave the gun in its present condition or try to clean it up after you buy it, I know working around classic car auctions that original paint and patina is not something you mess with.
Snider-Enfield please!!!
Ancestors, not descendants. I try not to be that guy, but I'm going to be because I hear this on a number of channels that cover a variety of topics. Your ancestors come before you and your descendants after you. Otherwise solid content, as always, and please keep the videos rolling.
These rifles must make dandy war clubs when the ammo runs out...
"Forgetting bayonets exist..."
@@axelpatrickb.pingol3228 Just having fun, geez...
There is no fun having an inferior weapon than your opponent...
Hs50 m1 stayr
Make a video about the ww2 German panzerfaust and shooting tests!
Shooting Test with a Panzerfaust that would destroy the weapon
It's an expensive destructive device. Not many functional examples exist in the US and, being a single use only weapon, it would be destroyed in such a test.
Why is there a proof mark on the barrel? I always thought those things dont exist in the USA.
We don't have proof houses in the US, so it just means the proofing was done by the manufacturer.
Imagine converting our current weapons to either gauss, lasers, or plasma. M4/AK, but indistinguishable.
The thing he do for us is great. Some may say gun jesus but I think he's a gun god
So what you're saying is that the Jenks dynasty is the RL equivalent of the Joestar dynasty, except with inventing instead of loglegs.
This made me think of a hypothetical what if someone tried to make something like a simple blowback sub machine could they have made it work at this time period and would it be successful
Black Powder fouls any auto mechanism far too quickly to be viable. Even the earliest machineguns were only truly useful once smokeless became common.
I made it early!!
Adopt one, and give it a good home
How much can you "clean up" a firearm like this without reducing the value of the firearm?
The additional benefit of that split system appears to be that it can't be fired with an open breach?
i are looking for flobert parlor pistol similar breech loader mechanics systems, but to make a letal rifle [ 22 win mag ]
if you know something warn me.
Looks like the gun needs a bit of TLC.
@forgottenweapons, when you start traveling again, you should start doing something like "where in the world is Carmen Sandiego"
How's the French .22 hunt going?
At the time that I'm watchint, this video averages
If half of the people who'd watched this by the time I did (24k at that point) donated a dollar per month over Patreon, Ian could buy a tank after a couple months.
Think about how awesome it would be. Think about it.
are you "the" Bob Lee Swagger?
Can I ask the name of the pistol you've shown.
It's a semi-automatic, clip fed, detachable magazine and a second trigger for cocking.
LINKS PLEASE
I've always preferred The Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past, the other ones I just couldn't get into
David Reeding Well played...
ruclips.net/video/RJQLXk3bEww/видео.html
@@maxerpoo67 thank you.