Granite Shelter Test
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- Full scale Prototype Shelter Testing @ University of Alberta:
This Shelter test (Shown Here) is a product of Materials that I found, tested and submitted to USFS MTDC for the Fire Shelter Review Process after the Yarnell Hill Deployment that they had asked industry for new ideas and materials.
The current Shelters are only rated for 20 seconds on this same test. When you watch the timer, it gets to 1 min 30sec before burn through. Research shows that the Flaming Front and Extreme Temperature (1800°F+) are over a particular Location for less than 60 seconds. To add more clarity and knowledge take a look at my original concept video; • GRANITE MOUNTAIN HOTSH... ; It compares the Current Shelter Materials and what I submitted for review. Missoula Technology and Development Center acquired larger pieces of material and fabricated this Full Scale Test Shelter. MTDC contracts with University of Alberta to do the full scale Burn to Destruction Test.
Remember the Goal of the Shelter is to keep the inside Air Temp less than 300°F for Survivable Air Supply, combined with the Fire Fighters PPE to keep any burns survivable. This shelter material shown here does all of those thing for 3X than the current Shelter
This test doesn't tell anyone in the fire service something we don't already know, our shelters are not designed for direct flame impingement. They are designed to reflect the heat of the fire, which is why a deployment zone has to have enough space to prevent the flames from making contact with the shelters.
NorthCoast FF people outside the fire service don't have any clue though. They think the turnouts of structural firefighters, the flash suits of the Airport Crash Crews, and the emergency shelters of the wildland crews will protect them from anything. Fact is for all that none are designed for direct flame impingement, the only reason the structural guys and the crash crews can withstand any is the thermal layers underneath the outer shells which would obviously not be feasible for the wildland shelters.
The one they were showing how the old fire shelters do not hold up to hot fires the new generations can take the heat but it all depends how the fire asked if its cold temperatures is Survivor higher temperatures it's not survivable I should know this
@@traildog_adventures
That isn't true at all. I'm not in the fire service and I have the capacity to understand that nothing will take away risk completely and that Man made suits or shelters simply will not withstand the full force of a fire. Even if the shelters do provide protection from heat, they will never be 100% smoke safe.
This was a real tragedy and the events at the time sort of left these Men in a no win situation. The biggest factor was the change in wind direction...and nobody can contend with Mother Nature.
There is the possibility to erect structures along escape routes that will provide a better shelter and don't have to be carried. This could be done by a secondary crew who aren't engaging directly. So a hotshot crew could retreat to it in the event the fire changes direction? Perhaps that would be a good viable option...although still not without the risk that a crew may not reach it in time.
I think plenty of intelligent people out there who aren't members of the fire service, could be involved in coming up with solutions that might prevent such a tragedy in the future? For instance people who design space vehicles...Man made objects which use materials that are light but able to withstand the heat of atmosphere re-entry. Using similar materials in flash over shelters along escape routes could work?
PDK O'Dude I never said that those outside of the fire service don't have the capacity to understand. I said people don't have a clue, that is based entirely off of my own personal experience. It's unfortunate that we live in an age where one can easily access any information, and be reasonably well enough informed over a myriad of subjects to have an intelligent conversation with almost anyone. Yet the vast majority choose to be ignorant about virtually everything of importance, but can and will gleefully tell you about all the happenings in the life of whatever celebrity they are religiously devoted too.
But aren't they only able to stand heat up to a certain point?
When watching this video I can imagine the horror of the firefighters when they saw the smoke trickling into the shelter with the bottoms starting to glow red.
I can imagine that pain
It’s very scary
So sad. Their last moments of horror. 😢🙏
They were likely dead before this happened
@sushiman41 I doubt it. They didn't have smoke inhalation, and the majority of them had full thickness burns over the majority of their bodies. I have read the autopsy reports. But, the breathing zone temperature got so high in the shelters that their lungs cooked and they died in agony.
Those guys died a horrible death...R.I.P.
Hopefully they passed out due to the lack of oxygen
@@gabrielbjarki2635 the fire was so hot you you wouldnt feel pain. legit would just burn up and once you inhaled youd be dead
@@dubb9020 Sad but true brother. 1 breath you were done. Awful way to go
@@dubb9020 there's a load of videos online proving that wasnt the case unfortunately
@@dubb9020 Unfortunately, that's not how it works. People like to think it is, because it helps us cope with understanding how horrible it must have been for them, but the sad truth is that they were probably alive for minutes, and felt pain through most of it. Fire kills you way too slowly, even when fully immolated. It's incredible how long the human body survives torched airways and heat shock. The sources on this are the hundreds of poor people who died while being filmed that has been on the internet for a couple of decades now. I really wish people died fast without feeling much pain, but it isn't the case. Hopefully some of them went into shock, but we do know that shock doesn't happen to everyone, not even close.
Always Remember the 19 Granite Mountain Hotshots
gamerboyplayzzMC -Minecraft & more Same thing I thought.
I feel sorry those people who loss their husbands or sons they we're the greatest heroes out there
It was sad what happened to them
It is.
Seth_Vazquez808 Number 9 #NeverForgetGMIHC19Plus1.
The fire shelters the Granite mountain hotshots used had adhesive that can withstand temperatures up to 500F
After 500F, the adhesive begins to fail.
The fire at the small ravine they were in was burning at 2000F
To add more clarity and knowledge take a look at my original concept video; ruclips.net/video/Ps-0cG70hps/видео.html
It compares the Current Shelter Materials and what I submitted for review. This video was a culmination of that earlier work. Missoula Technology and Development Center acquired larger pieces of material and fabricated this Full Scale Test Shelter. MTDC contracts with University of Alberta to do the full scale Burn to Destruction Test.
The current Shelters are only rated for 20 seconds on this same test. When you watch the timer, it gets to 1 min 30sec before burn through. Research shows that the Flaming Front and Extreme Temperature (>1800°F) are over a particular Location for
Wow wow.
@@DTPROFAB Ah. That explains it. I thought this was a current standard fire shelter. I did not believe that a standard fire shelter could withstand direct fire that long.
@@imperatorcaesartraianushad5235 hey thanks captain obvious! Do you, by any chance, have the formula for an adhesive that can withstand those temps? Oh? You don't??? Then what in the FUCK are you contributing?
Jesus
This broke my heart. Had my hand covering my mouth the entire time knowing that this is exactly what those brave men went through that fateful day , if not worse, oh my GOD this is so sad! May they rest in peace! 😢
I came to know about these heroes through the touching film. Just to think how they died so undeservedly and leaving entire families behind brings tears to my eyes. My thoughts and prayers go out to their loved ones.
The film is ok for those who just want the basics. It didn’t cover a lot of reality. Do a little research and what you find just might disgust you. Not the crew, but the bullshit surrounding their deaths. The way the families were treated, an “investigation” that took only a month, and the fire itself was chaos. Google is a wonderful thing.
Im blown away that shelter could keep someone alive for a minute. It's incredible.
I read the autopsy reports. They all died from thermal burning. Medical term for incinerated alive. Only 7 were found in their shelters. The fire hit them at 2000 degrees. RIP Brothers. There is no pain anymore.
@@ahhhnushka None of that was on the autopsy reports but you may be correct.
@@ahhhnushka Oh maybe I missed it. I'll reread thanks.
Honestly tho, one breath of super heated air, and that's it. You're dead right then and there. They likely didn't feel much of anything.
Yes, I read the autopsies.
Only 7? And the others?
@@PabloGarcia-sj5pm probably scrambled out from under the shelters when they began catching fire & got consumed by the flames. RIP heros
These tests are done in a concealed structure. The hotspots were on the ground, the fire plus the winds pushing the flames created a blow torch effect. Those shelters wasn't able to withstand that much heat.
The video is of an improved shelter hence it could withstand it for so long.
And to add insult to injury...widows had to fight for settlement... very sad.
I remember people raising hell with the city of Prescott over at the square. I’d stop and join em. One hippie came and handed me a clipboard with signatures and he tried getting me to sign it, I asked what it was and he told me it was a petition to withhold funds, I ripped his ass and hucked his communistic crap into gurley street
These were never meant to stand direct heat from flame. It was never meant to come in contact. Just to defer heat
Dakota Iverson it was to protect from burning alive in the fire
@@andreamunoz8321 it was to protect you from the heat not the direct fire
@@andreamunoz8321 and it only goes up to 600 degrees
Wish it had an interior temperature reading
A shelter could hold up, but it is useless if the interior temperature 200 or 300 degrees. A single layer shelter probably always will prove useless for a 1000 degree fire that is around the shelter for 5 or 10 minutes.
The firefighters need oxygen also the fire uses all of the oxygen even in the ground.
It’s gotta be at least 80° in there
Flashover occured so I'd say very very fugging hot.
There is no amount of money that should be spared to provide a safe shelter. None.
Totally agree!
Each shelter cost 500$ they made a mistake that's all
It's not cost, it's weight.
They made mistakes, that is the truth
Oh’ lord , a ‘ birds eye view of what they felt and encountered, bless them , truly horrific,
So appreciative of the will and courage they have , especially present day fire fighters from all areas , wildness and suburban, bless you all’
And Thankyou.
what is not being said is that these shelters have gone through few changes in the last 20 years. These need to be updated. In a 2000 degrees fire nothing much is going to save you but they have to upgrade the equipment. The only thing these protect you from is heat. if fire hits it then it will burn.
They were supposed to have a large, cleared out area as their safety zone, The Hot shot team didn't have enough time to clear out the safety zone, they only had a few minutes to clear out whatever they could and deploy.
@@johnmrobertsonrblx594 to protect from that fire, it would have to have been a huge site. The flames were blown directly over them by the wind, and to top it off, the air around it was like 2000 degrees.
Nothing's gonna save you there.
@@greatestever184 That's basically what I was saying
One firefighter described his fire shelter experience in another forest fire saying while surrounded flames he didn't want to experience any more of it and gave seriously thought to coming out of his shelter and inhaling the flames to end it all. But he waited it out, and survived. If his shelter was intact and he couldn't deal with it, can you even comprehend how these poor souls must have felt as their shelters failed...just so awful. Now hear is some really sad news. Those shelters could only take up to 500F of heat. This fire was at 2000F
Worst part, there were shelters at the time that could actually withstand those temperatures, but the state did not provide these men with those and instead gave them the cheaper ones.
Posting a youtube comment is pointless and meaningless if you are not will to take on your state authorities and create real change in your state. Don't sit around and let presidents make you feel like you can be lazy and do nothing, you are the change, or you are not. Do something other than vote for a president and give a dam about your state firefighters.
I use to be a smokejumper for CalFire. Because we were the "special forces" of fire fighting in America, we would get the best gear and oftentimes had experimental gear with us. There were no tents that could withstand 2,000F temps for extended periods of time in 2013. We used experimental tents when I was a smokejumper and none of them would have survived anything near those temps. 2000F is the melting point of many metals. Now, there is a new NASA-made tent that has undergone some testing since 2017 or so. I know of some guys who have had serious problems with these fire tents. The problem is that the tent has graphite in it that expands to 100-250 times its original size. If you have one of these in your fireman's loadout, it seems like a great survival tool. But, the graphite expands at temperatures less than what the CalFire fire suit can take. I've heard stories of the shelters expanding in rucksacks when they weren't deployed. CalFire guys have lost all their gear because their fire tent expanded and destroyed their rucksacks while the bags were still on their backs. That's not at all ideal. The NASA tents are promising, but the technology is nowhere near perfect, and was certainly not available in 2013.
Hey Matt, how does one start to become a forest firefighter, hotshot, and smoke jumper? What's does that process look like?
These people who volunteer to go out and fight wildfires are heroes, and there ought to be a permanent pension paid to their spouse and a separate one for their children, until they finish their education, and the separate pension benefit to the spouse until remarriage.
Funded by the federal government.
At least then one worry would be taken away. And in the big scheme of federal funding, it’s so minimal as to be utterly unnoticeable.
For some reason, watching this is even more horrifying than the autopsy reports. What unbelievable horror those boys went through. Where does the love of God go.
I am not linking any sources because most is to graphic but from my research. 14-19 of the shelters were "vaporized" The last were solid black (The film shows all 19 intact and silver)
Their radios were still functioning when the crews came up and spent the night with them but had to wait for the sheriff to turn the radios off for the investigation the following morning.
This test didn't have any wind while the winds in the firestorm were a major factor in speeding up the deterioration of the shelters at almost 90mph
Radio transmission were still being sent after the fire surrounded them. Sadly we know what was happening to them during those transmission. There were about 4 sent out.
@Eric Lee Why is any of this funny to you? You're a disgusting human being.
@Eric Lee Your an idiot and a fool. STFU
Hey brother... coming up on eight years... I’m out in chandler, Arizona. Keep up the great work.
I was assuming these were designed for radiant heat! But for over a minute it kept the flames out, which is more than I thought it would, Def need a rethink of the design though, but to protect against direct flame contact is going to add a lot of weight to there already heavy kit. Hope they find a material that can protect these guys and girls.
Chris Millard You’re correct. My husband is a wildland firefighter for over 19 yrs now. I probably shouldn’t even be posting on here as to what is told to the public vs reality is difficult for some to grasp.The shelters are created to protect against radiant heat combined w direct heat. But has limitations. Only to 500°F. Different fires burn at different temps. Ex. Grass fires burn fast and HOT. The shelter would be more effective because the firefighter would be capable of holding their breath for a shorter period and the fire would move over them more quickly.
There are materials that are even more protective. Think NASA. Upon reentry, shuttles sustain far greater heat for an extended amount of time. However, the weight (as you said) of carrying a deployment shelter that’s specialized is something they can’t and most WONT do. And financially? Politics.. etc.
The shelter is a LAST DITCH EFFORT NOT TO DIE. The rules they follow, training and experience is what saves them. They know if they are in a situation where they have to deploy... human error let them down. They know they probably won’t come out alive and will most likely burn out their lung alveoli and suffocate. I won’t go into detail defending firefighters vs weather change. There are preventative measures set in place for weather change. IE. Escape routes. The shelter is NEVER AN OPTION! It’s NEVER a plan of action. It simply there because you are DEFINITELY going to die... maybe ... just maybe, you can live w burnt out lungs and 3rd degree burns and hold your breath long enough not to suffocate. In reality it’s a false sense of hope that allows rookies to slack on situational awareness. Some old timers don’t bother to change theirs out or even carry a shelter. They know the reality. They weight of the shelter is more of a danger than the protection it provides. The public gets too concerned about faulty shelters. Like I said, the shelter is never a course of action. Burning up or suffocating is a risk they all willingly take. It’s awful. But, It’s reality. It’s inevitable. I sound crass, but I’m not talking out of my a*s.
If firefighters could get the media/ public to understand. You don’t drive a car 150 mph into a brick wall w a seat belt being your plan of action. You just don’t drive into the the wall. If you error and didn’t see the wall.. you’re wearing a belt and you hope you die quickly or don’t become a vegetable. But a seatbelt is NEVER a plan. Sure they can put you in a cast iron piece of metal, but the practicality? Not effective. As far as the government working w NASA and spending millions inventing a light weight submarine easily carried w their already heavy pack, saw, polaski, water, radio, etc in the heat... is not going to happen. Is the public aware unlike structural firefighters , they don’t even wear a breathing apparatus to protect their lungs from the smoke they inhale for hours? Nope. Too heavy. Too much. They’re already trying not to collapse from desert temps, hiking a mntn and the heat from the fire. Death...It’s a risk they are aware of and take. Just like cops, military... etc. They’re trained and educated to prevent ever getting into a situation where it’s needed. I’m not an awful person. I’m not speaking disrespectfully of the firefighters. As I said, I know what I know from a man that has done this for over half his life. He’s knew the 19 hotshots that died. He’s known others before them. He attended a funeral of another last yr that was a volunteer and simply fell off the back of an engine, un noticed to the crew, until they got to safety and the fire had burned over where he slipped off. He’s had close calls himself. Even the most experienced and highest qualified are held subject to human error. Not to mention inhaling smoke and heat exhaustion can disorient them.
I trust him. But I know all it takes is one lapse in judgment.
@@natalierozean5989
I'm sorry, but you're just dangerously incorrect on a lot of these. Almost half the fatalities involving these shelters took place at Yarnell. They have been proven to save lives in almost 300 other occasions and have prevented serious injury in countless others.
It's not an option you factor in, but to say they don't work at all is a blatant lie.
@@GunRecon They work perfectly for what they were designed for - resisting lethal hot air for a short period of time.
But they are absolutely useless if the firefighters are caught in any significant portion of a fire - without adequate time to prepare. There are better materials out there, but very few things can withstand such intense and prolonged exposure.
Here come the experts...3....2...1....
1:28
It's over right there. Air gets sucked out, burns, only thing to replace it is fumes several hundred degrees hotter than what you can withstand.
I just saw the movie and am blown away by these modern day hero’s. Seeing these saddens me and we need to do better for these hero’s
This why you first find the ideal deployment site first and clear it then start your work.
Two questions where were the water bombers and why don’t they issue these guys with a means to end their lives quickly in the face of a no win traumatizing death?
Read somewhere there was signs that some of the men got up and ran from their original deployment sight (probably due to the panic and pain) but fell and died shortly..... Seen a video years ago of a live man pinned in his car from an accident and the vehicle and himself caught on fire..... It traumatized me and left its horrific mark on me for life.... May these men rest in peace.
I watched a news report from the fire chief and he said ALL of the firefighters were still in their shelters.
@@danni1993 no they were not. The autopsy report explains how many of them were found in their shelters and how many weren't. Quite a few were not in their shelters
Does it really matter? They are simply heroes period.
@@selinallano9147i just went and read all 19 of the autopsy reports and there was ZERO mention of any of them being found away from their shelters
I can never imagine how it felt in there💔
Baby let me show you sometime!!!
I would have tested my luck and ran for it
Tom Alexander they found many outside of their shelters. They may have.
I would have ordered all gear dropped except the shelter and made a run for it.
You say that but the fire was moving at over twenty miles an hour and with all that gear it wasn’t an option. The best bet was to make a clearing and deploy shelters but they couldn’t clear an area with the little time they had. There was no surviving this event. Coulda woulda shoulda does not matter
Would you have run toward the fire, or tried to outrun it up a steep canyon? That's pretty much the options you had. I think you would have only run outta luck. Not
trying to be a dick, but from the time they re-gained sight of the fire and it got to the deployment sight, there wasn't going to be any outrunning it. The air temp alone
(+2000*f) blowing up into that canyon would probably have nailed you well before the fire did. It was pretty much an unsurvivable situation they got into.
you never leave your crew behind, the fire was moving way too fast. they had no other options... RIP
How about a fleet of large converted airliners instead of toy choppers ?
As Great as this country is, we gave them men a peice of aluminum foil to protect themselves with!!! Unacceptable and discusting. We owe them more. R.I.P. Gentlemen!!!🇺🇲
And silica. It's not just aluminum foil. It's actually pretty good at protecting from extremely hot air that would kill a person.
Air.
Flames, not so much. We need to design something that can withstand superheated air, and flame, like the Yarnell 19 faced.
@@greatestever184
We can't.
Or rather, we could, but it'd be too heavy to carry.
What haunts me is that, imo, the shelter may have prolonged their dying.
@David miorgan no it's not idiotic, the wildland firefighters themselves call those shelters easy bake ovens. The poster has a valid point, what if without the shelters they would have died instantly but because of the shelters it was a slower death from the little protection it possibly gave?
@David miorgan its not idiotic. The temperatures outside the shelter were 2000 degrees.
The human body can withstand air of 350 degrees for a short period of time without moisture.
2000 kills instantly but if those shelters kept it a lot cooler but still scorching, it likely might have prolonged it.
I get shelter trained in a month. I live 20 min from yarnell. This is never far from my mind.
I believe the term they used is "melted", their lungs melted. When I think of melted, I think of plastic. It boggles my mind to think that as humans we can actually "melt". Rip
I've seen a material made in Germany that could withstand a direct torch flame with no damage.
It's called SFO302 from bwf protec
my Yarnell Hill Fire Revelations blog shows never before seen documents and photos and another place to review about YH Fire is Investigative Media.
I just watched the move Only the Brave and I just broke down. May God continue to wrap his arms around those families. I believe the good Lord took there spirits so they would’ve had to suffer. Now they all are in Heaven peacefully. ❤️
They deserved death for fucking with a fire that was minding its own biz..MAGA2020
My God, i knew about this awful incident from the movie. watching this material melting is like liquid magma pouring on those poor but brave souls .....its horrifying and so sad .....sending prayers for them and deepest condolences to their families and friends ...
Oh my god! I can not even imagine having to go through that, I mean being trapped there and then the shelter give way like that??
When do fire shelters burn from the inside first part of the test and they do not seem to hold up for any length of time when the fire is applied to the outside of the shelters, second part of test.
When I was a welder, we would work with temperatures that could melt steel. Our hands would be covered with thick leather gloves, and be within inches of this heat. Seems like long leather trench coats would be a great addition to a more robust fire shield. Also, seems like the brush and grass fires only need to be dealt with for less than a few minutes. Also, a more practical strategy of putting on fire retardant clothing, and running away might be more life saving. When you look at a Google Earth 3D of the Granite Mountain Hotshot memorial, if they had better fire protective clothing, and just ran over to the rocky areas they may have had a better chance of survival. Trouble with doing the right thing when you have several choices is that with a burn over, you get many chances when you do it right every time, but the first time you do it wrong, you don't get another chance. Not many occupations that only give you one shot at doing it wrong.
Also, when I was into scuba diving I remember they had these little air tanks you could buy that would allow you to breathe underwater for apx. 5-10 minutes. They are the size of a can of paint. Seems like this would be a good addition to better fire shelters. I wish to comment on the previous post about the autopsy repots. I believe these autopsy reports should be gone over by the crew bosses who train wildland fire fighters. Nothing gets your attention, and makes you remember why you need to stay alert to your situation than reading the autopsies. 19 fire fighters, all passing in different ways. Some were knocked down with the flames coming at their back, and others were within their fire shelters. The autopsy made mention of the chemicals found in the system implying that they were inhaling the gases released when their shirts were on fire. This implies that they were conscious for at least a minute or two, and may have felt the pain of the heat. Others had to deal with the inhalation of sooty smoke. Others had little soot in their airways. Again, various horrific ways to be taken by fire, but I believe it will, if future fire fighters read it, make future fire fighters consider taking a right and not a left to the ranch. Giving the fire more room to run, and not walking out in its path. Fires move at 10mph, and when you do the calculation for the Yarnell, Az fire, the Granite Mountain hotshots had 6 minutes to make it to the ranch before the fire did. Pull up Google Earth Pro, measure the distance between the deployment site and a point NE (a second N, NE) and see for yourself the reality of the situation. Again, my main point is that I encourage future wildland fire fighters to read all 19 autopsy reports, and let this drill into you the seriousness of doing the right thing in ADVANCE of what the fire front is predicted to do.
If you read the autopsy reports you should have come across the information about the shrinkage their leather gloves experienced when they were overtaken by the fire. Some of the gloves shrank as much as 50% of their normal size.
@@stevenwestfall7638 Welders have been using leather to protect themselves since the beginning of the invention of electricity. When leather shrinks, it has been burnt. You would just need to wear pants that are baggy enough so that it doesn't cut off your circulation, welding pants.
@@TimKaseyMythHealer if you'd like to fight fires in full leather, be my guest. I'd rather risk the burns.
@@893R6-w8t You would put it on at the time you deploy your shelter. Do I really need to explain everything?
@@TimKaseyMythHealer It's also an issue of weight. Heavy welding equipment is all good, but these guys run through brushes and forests carrying lots of equipment as it is; hot environments also fatigue someone faster. Forcing the men to carry such heavy suits with them as a "just in case" would only be a burden in almost every other situation.
They could theoretically have such sets in their vehicles - but as we saw in the movie - vehicles can't follow the crews wherever they go.
A final issue would be time. Even if they had said suits - the time it would take to shed their normal gear, start clearing a safe zone, and then put on the suits could be too much. As we saw with the Granite Mountain crew, they only had a few minutes at most to prep their deployment site and get into their shelters before the flames reached them.
A minute and a half with direct flame impingement. How long for the average fire front to pass? Also if there is no impingement the shell should stay intact if you get the distance/ temperature from the flames to stay below 500 degrees. Better than no chance, but it is going to hurt....
There’s another video from the Dude Fire video where they say the foil delaminates between 500-1000 degrees F, and the blanket material burns at 2200 degrees F. I don’t even want to imagine....
Just think, aluminum melts at about 1220 degrees'
First there needs to be another similar layer, second there needs to be a bag of air, even if its just 2-3 gulps
They should have shown what the temperatures were from the beginning of the test to the time of when the gases were seeping in the tent and temp at failure.
What if they where to have two fire shelters and stack them on top of eachother
Too much weight to carry, and it wouldnt be practical to deploy. 1 is hard enough
It’s essentially aluminum foil. It reflects, not withstands. That’s the only way you make something light enough to be carried with everything else they have.
The second they reported they were going to deploy all radio transmission should stop and only listen to the sup. If the tankers couldn't hear him they should of still dropped water with the best guest of where they were
The 19 guys never had a chance. It would have been over in 30 seconds. They all need a better shelter to carry and work with. Maybe they can come home next time:(
Granite Mountain Hotshots... may they rest in peace...
Wind blows off the shelter because maybe they were passed out and couldn't hold the shelter on top of them, the 2000 degrees air kills them instantly or they pass out because the heat sucks up the oxygen, even with OR without the shelter on top of them, then they burn but dead before that happens. They had an escape route but ALL uphill with a 2000 degree fire chasing you, no way anyone could outrun that. Once they got into that little valley they were in, there was no hope. That's it in a nutshell. So Sad this could happen to anyone......
I don't think these guys get the science behind a fire that hot. You'd suffocate long before the fire got you. There airways collapse immediately leading to suffocation.
Jack, actually they do get the science. This is a full scale Performance Test. Field testing is not consistent or reliable. Read my other comments regarding temperatures.
Called Thermo burning of the lyranax. Most fire v's die as a result of smoke inhalation about 30sec's or less you go unconscious, but still breathing in the super heated gases..
Oh, man, 30 secs is a long time when you are burning alive... :(
Shocking!!
can imagine all that screaming
Prob not much man first breath of air would kill them so hopefully they were all sleeping when the fire got in
From my understanding i heard theve been using the same stuff in these deployment shettlers since 1977, apparently a father of one of the 19 started researching his own and made one the could withstand 2000 degrees
The Shelters were last updated in the early 2000's from the fallout of the South Canyon Fire (Storm King Mountain) where 14 Firefighters Died. I am the father of "Turby" GMHS, this is the full scale test of materials that was provided to USFS MTDC. Fabricated and shipped to the Canadians to test. To add more clarity and knowledge take a look at my original concept video; ruclips.net/video/Ps-0cG70hps/видео.html
What about an asbestos outer shell?
How about a water drop on their location?
@@denniscarter483 that is what I wondered, where were the water bombers or a fire retardant drop?
@@pozzee2809 There was a tanker in the area and he was being vectored to the location but there was only 2 minutes between the time the GMHS realized that they were in trouble and when they were burned over.
Very impressive
There is no excuse for sending fire crews out to fight inferno's with these shelters! Technology needs to be in place lets do it right.
Are they making these shelters now where they can save lives?
What I don’t get is these held up under pretty intense heat, how long did the flaming front take to get over these guys? Does anyone know the temp on this fire?
It likely only took a couple minutes for the flaming front to hit them after the order to deploy shelters. The temp was 2000°
So what were the results? What temperature did you set the heat at? Does the shketer butn up at 200 degrees? 300degrees? 700 degrees? This test didnt educate us much.
They are not designed to withstand direct flame contact
Here's my thing, the fire could stay over you for 10 min to an hr, this shelter couldnt even last a full minute.. how is that supposed to protect you? I just don't get it. Rip to those brave men that were lied to.... i was in Prescott the day this tragedy happened.
Psalm Miracle no one was lied to.
Anyone who’s worked a fire knows that our gear isn’t rated to withstand direct flames for more than a few seconds.
These shelters were never designed to withstand direct flame, just reflect heat in a hopefully clear cut and preburnt off site.
Only people lied to are the ones who somehow thought they are fireproof.
Nothing is fireproof. Not a damn thing. My structural gear will fail pretty quick in a direct fire. These shelters fail. The speciality suits used for aviation fires will fail.
Anyone with proper training knows.
The shelters didn’t kill them. A valley, some bad decisions, and a series of communications breakdowns did.
It's not meant for direct flame. It's meant to protect from heat.
Heat and direct flame are two different potatoes.
Yea flames no. They cut a circle into where the deploy so hoping the fire burns around them. In real video u her them still cutting wit the fire very very close. Say u make a 200 ft circle u deploy and the fire burns around u bc theres no brush or trees u cut them and removed the fuel. The fire was to big and not enough time. So sad
@@Ephraim32 where were the water bombers?
@@pozzee2809 radio traffic was so thick that the hotshot crew could not properly coordinate with them. They missed the dropsite.
Shelter or a cooker? After 1 min. you start seriously suffocating. In 2 min. it's over. How about 2 min. floating device?
bryce where’s your sources? In direct fire your dead within 30 seconds, if you use these shelters the way they are supposed to be used ( away from direct fire, and under 500c) it can last hours
This is really scary when your becoming a volunteer firefighter
What is the temperature, oxygen depletion, during that time?
1 foot in the black.
Leather shelter.
Watching this video made me question of why did they used granite to resist a wild fire, they would not survive but one firefighter did survive, the others got burned like some beef
Point the natural gas nozzles straight up where they are. Then put 6 of the 2' (ft) diameter Salamanders within 5' (ft) of the shelter and turn them on and off to simulate the winds strength and swirl. Any camper knows that blowing on a fire makes it hotter. You can search online to find the temperature that aluminum melts at. (1,221 degrees F) Baking that shelter in a oven doesn't teach you a dam thing. Just my opinion
เสียใจกับ กลุ่ม hotshot ที่ yanell ด้วยครับ
Rip and peace for he 19 heroes 🥀💔
Apparently you're not versed in fire behavior no fire sits for 10 minutes
These shelters all fail. Only material that can stand that much heat is kept secret in the UK and they won't share it because of one selfish family
More needs to be done to find a product like kevlar that we structure firefighters wear for wild land shelters...in extreme events like this they may buy you time for a water bomber to drop or you to give your location for help....it sickens me that these men and others like them are only protected by a thin sheet of material ... this must be fixed by your Gov
so from the look of this video, the 19 Granite Mountain Hotshots were cremated alive because their fire shelter failed
Kaun Troap I read the reports it was brutal they all burned alive. Most of them had 3rd and 4th degree burns on Over 95% of their bodies. One guy was burned so bad is intestines came out. How them poor guys died was awful they suffered until their hearts finally gave out🙏🏻
The shelters didn't fail. The fire was just too severe and unsurvivable under those conditions. The guys did what they could and the shelters did what they could but it just wasn't enough this time.
The official report states that only 7 of the 19 were found inside "fully deployed" shelters. The official estimation in the report states they had an estimated 2 minutes to clear a deployment site and get inside their shelters. No where near enough time to create a space adequate enough to survive the estimated 2,000 degrees. Here is the link to the official report and a quote from pg 83 documenting how the firefighters were found.
"Seven firefighters were found inside fully deployed fire shelters. Another four firefighters were inside their shelters mostly deployed. Eight of the firefighters were found with partially deployed shelters; five of the eight were outside of their shelters, lying supine. The evidence is unclear as to whether the partially deployed firefighters were in the process of deploying their shelters when
they were overtaken, or if they were fully deployed inside their shelters and then attempted to move with the shelter or attempted to exit the shelter. "
www.iawfonline.org/Yarnell_Hill_Fire_report.pdf
And as for Mikeggg1979's comments: Those details and pictures are NEVER released to the public.
Blackmongoose13 - 15 years FF/EMT/Swift Water Tech
what a sick fuck. keep that shit to yourself. No one cares to read that.
mikeggg1979 Damn I just seen the movie too
To add more clarity and knowledge take a look at my original concept video; ruclips.net/video/Ps-0cG70hps/видео.html
It compares the Current Shelter Materials and what I submitted for review. This video was a culmination of that earlier work. Missoula Technology and Development Center acquired larger pieces of material and fabricated this Full Scale Test Shelter. MTDC contracts with University of Alberta to do the full scale Burn to Destruction Test.
The current Shelters are only rated for 20 seconds on this same test. When you watch the timer, it gets to 1 min 30sec before burn through. Research shows that the Flaming Front and Extreme Temperature (>1800°F) are over a particular Location for
If have to test first. Hotshot team will not die
May God rest their souls in everlasting peace for the torment they bravely endured. Horrifying doesn’t even describe 100th of what it would’ve been like.
So the granite mountain hotshots must of had flames on them for almost 2 mins? And were they dead before it melted from smoke?
Likely. From the autopsy reports, some didn't even have soot in their airways, indicating they weren't breathing at all. Most likely died the second the 2000 degree air hit them. One breath of that and that's it. You're dead.
@@greatestever184 Yup. That super heated air would have killed them the second they took one breath. They had no chance. Whether they took a breath and held it before it hit or not. You're not making it out of a 2500F fire.
Even a flash over isn't that hot
So that's what happened to the granite mountain Hot shots after I heard it on the news I've been saying to myself all this time why did the shelters work but now I know. RIP granite mountain 19 you will always be in our hearts.
what was the output temperature?
Horrible way to go.... granite mountain hotshots are heros
Why couldn't a plane or chopper be on standby to dump water/ retardant on stranded firefighters ?
For all intensive purposes their was a water bomber there, but there was a massive communications cluster fuck happening at the same time. Plus based on a prior radio call the assumption was Granite Mountain was holding in the black (safe zone). This was one of those worst case scenarios where anything that could go wrong did. The situation was FUBAR.
Most of the comment section is forgetting one thing they didn't die by there burns they died from inhalation of carbon monoxide
They probably died from the inhalation of superheated air which would have destroyed their airway.
Informative but absolutely no peace of mind provided.
They need to work on them so it can last longer
Who would be willing to go in and test that?
This makes me absolutely sick to my stomach watching it. Those guys had no chance...😔
They said they didn’t find all of the bodies under the shelter. I wonder if it’s because they were turned to ash...
Nick Hagy they found all 19 of the bodies, only 7 where found under the shelter because the other 12 had their shelters ripped off by the wind when they went unconscious instantly
No they weren't turned to ash!!!!!!!!!!!! Even the one not completely in shelters
I thought maybe in the first awful moments they panicked and tried to get out, and managed part way before they passed out. God love and keep them all.
i just wonder how they died like was it fast? the extreme heat maybe killed them very quickly i hope they didn't suffer - i jst dint see how someone could even stay stil whilst burning alive your instinct would have you running anything to escape
Those hot shots didn’t stand a chance
Imagine, if Elon Musk would take some serious thought into this.
When i saw the aftermath of the fire shield i just cant believe that shield failed i still cant believe it
Its only meant to reflect heat, its not meant to have flames directly hit it like what happened to the hot shot team.
So none of these really work
Nope! Is just to have time to pray before gone.
Why can’t they just make a fire proof sleeping bag !!! No??
I think they didnt die because of flames but lack of oxygen
Channel name "GMHS Dad"... ouch. That hurts to read.
They never had a chance......
Test it before using it god damn it
It worked for what it was designed for. The shelter was never designed to last in a direct flame, only deflect radiating heat.
Fire is not even supposed to over the bag that's the reason why they make a deployment site
Here’s your Mylar ballon. Be safe… what a joke
In fact the shelter turns into an oven