Right on. Edit: There's a tacit assumption that's common in TTG community (not prevalent, but common) that the GM is the adult at the table. I appreciate the implication here that the GM and players are all equally responsible for the health of the game. Frequently, the players see their responsibility as "Play my character". It's not. It's "Play the game" which is a larger role than the character. This is a great video and a great philosophy.
Assist the Game Master -- Hello Play your Character -- My name is Inigo Montoya Confront the World -- You killed my Father Prepare to Die -- Prepare to Die
Agree with all of these. If there was a fifth tenant added, I think a good one is that players should be playing with other players. I often feel like I'm running multiple 1-on-1 adventures in a given session where each player is primarily interacting with me as the GM and rarely with the others at the table. They can really flesh out the world and their camaraderie on their own, even with little physical moments or remarks, which is rewarding for them and gives the GM more potential hooks.
Knowing where the PCs are going next session, or atleast having an idea of what the goal for the first hour to two of the next game, is extremely important. It gives an idea of what to play and gives a chance to build plans of where the game might be going. It helps to ensure a strong start for each session which can more easily translate to a strong session overall. Before people leave, the DM should know what the start should be.
Thanks for talking about "tactical infinity" (First time I have ever heard the term) As someone who only ever really played video games, "tactical infinity" is my main reason for wanting to get into tabletop. Trying to actually take the world seriously in many video games usually just leads to a lot of frustration (and dying to enemies who's lives you were trying to spare).
What the gm needs to make clear is whether the player are going to play adventurers in an adverse World, or the heros of a story the gm has been planning for them
I would be so happy if my players did half of those things. Never happened. They expected late to be fine. They expected to be spoon fed the adventure and only rarely were any of them ready for their turn in combat.Two years ago I folded up the screen and have very little desire to host a table anymore. After thirty-five years my game worlds are now settings for novels and I'm 45,000 words into the first one.
I once had a player talk back to the DM for giving him a "useless item" and said he refused to pick it up unless it did something when it was both plot relevant and if he was paying attention would know he had to study it first to unlock said power. Mind you the DM already showered him with a lot of powerful items before. That's when I knew he was going to be a problem player.
This is a major complaint I get. Its really infuriating and it takes me right out of my flow. Like, I do all this work put these flavorful trinkets in the world and I get this childish behavior from adults. Really brought me into being a more unforgiving and hardcore DM out of numbness.
DM: *Looks around the table* does anyone else pick up the clearly-not-mundane item? Right, then. Moving along. I would ignore that player's tantrum. We don't reward tantrums. Everyone can have a bad day, but if this happens multiple times, they might get an "invitation" to depart the group.
Ben, in a nutshell be engaged and prepared. Communicate effectively with the DM and fellow PCs. Thank you for this. I’ve found that the later releases / editions of DnD are more “video game” themed with a feeling of the PCs being the main characters and everything occurs to them and not necessarily because of them. I still have enjoyed 3.5, Pathfinder and 5e but that’s what I get sometimes.
I had too many games where people treated threats as if it was some Marvel superhero movie and goof off and never use basic tactics or team work. When somebody actually ran the game the way it was supposed to everyone in the group except me ended up dying at least once because they were not used to the idea that their characters could die.
A character who takes initiative can be so fun It gives me something to plan for and it puts a lot of pressure off my shoulders to make something naturally occur because they're prodding for things I don't have to make goblins/cult/gangsters to attack the party because the party has a lead on a goblin hideout, information about cult abductions and a crime scene to investigate If you're a player PLEASE interact with the world I've spent a month building Ask me about the economy and how one would go about crimes involving it This is YOUR world as much as it is mine
My game almost never uses dungeons anymore but if the players want a map of an area that isn't easy to keep track of in their heads, I insist they draw their own maps - I will not provide the map for them. I agree, it's frustrating when players just wait for the story to come to them. Because I want a story to happen, it's unfortunate that I will give it to them if they wait long enough. I need to run a campaign where I make them work for it a bit more, to remind them that they can't expect adventure to come looking for them.
The original dungeon crawl concept of the game had the players doing all of their own mapping based on the DMs descriptions and input. The DM would sometimes provide deliberately wrong info that’d cause confusion. Good times.
I try to include dungeons, but for organic reasons .. a cave system, old barrows, ancient part of city now built over & forgotten, etc, not just have "random dungeon 101" in middle of no where.
Well if they refuse to leave town perhaps give them a choice.... People offer them mundane jobs.... 2 coppers to carry thing from point A to point B, meanwhile they hear about a group of adventurers that went to check out some ruins if they hang out in the tavern.... If they ignore the plot hook, they later just hear that those adventurers haven't come out.
@@nekocam Probably depends on the context though.... And how the DM is providing this information.... (If the DM is like "You find an old map" and gives you a handout of said map, and then later reveals that it's missing information or is outright wrong/outdated when the players actually visit the area that the map represents, well that's probably going to be a bit different than the DM outright lying to the players.... Or the players are "Mapping" the area without actually visiting it first based on the senile ramblings of old man McQuest Giver, then I'd say it's forgivable that it be incomplete/wrong ) I'd also say that if the DM makes it very clear that what the players see might not be real(Because illusions, traps and hidden doors might remain undetected if the players failed their score) The important part is that the DM not lie to the players OOC when giving wrong information to their players, and stick to wording such as "Well it certainly SEEMS to be safe." or "This is what your character sees." (You can present wrong information this way without lying to the player. Just because you said that the character doesn't see a trap door for instance doesn't mean there is no trap door, or that the player was lied to when you as DM did not tell them about the trap door. It just means the players will likely be missing a trap door in their dungeon map that they may discover sooner or later upon returning to that area....) It could also be a fun way to set up non-ecludion geometry.... Like hallways being longer than they should be and rooms not seeming to fit together quite right...
With Whitehack, it's probably necessary to have some kind of rule like that since character creation involves more DM bandwidth than other OSR systems (e.g. negotiating groups, miracles, Deft specialities).
I enjoy your constant acknowledgement that there are different ways to play. So many people get focused on how THEY play as the one true way to play, but in nearly every case here, you caveat the strong opinions with a mention that it's fine to play differently.
Great video Ben. On another point, DMing advice from all please. I’ve just started a new campaign, switching to an OSR style play. First two sessions, a combat, all good. Third session, where the players have to choose where to go, bit of a disaster because I didn’t give enough information to them on the complex plot I had developed, so they didn’t engage. Moral of the story I think - keep the plot simple, get information to players immediately
Amazing video! Just shared this to my players. What a succinct summary of advice for new players! And best of all it applies to any game system, even 5e!
I really like Knave, it's not my thing to run BUT god forbid I needed to introduce completely new players to the concept, yea it's the best and most simple/functional system I have ever seen, and I have taken some of your ideas from Knave into my House rules for the OSR Systems I like to run. The encumbrance rule is amazing for building on / using in general for systems with badly defined encumbrance systems. As well anything that's introducing the hobby to younger generations is an absolutely wonderful thing! 😸 Which is both Ben and his systems ! ( God I WISH I had a teacher like him growing up, would have been an incredibly positive influence.)
I’ve just found your channel and I’m loving your videos! Do you have or can you do some videos on how best to keep track of a campaign from the GM stance?
You are the DM. You have the prerogative to set your table’s rules and to set demands for your players. At least, talk it out with them and find out where you disagree on and if there’s a way to negotiate so everyone is happy. If they aren’t happy, they can leave just as much as you can. No D&D is better than bad D&D!
Ben, this was great and I'm going to share the link with my group. My players do a lot of these kinds of things already. I'm pretty lucky in that regard
1. Arrive on time or earlier (a game will take hours to play, its a big commitment, do not waste peoples effort) 2. Be Respectful, (play like a Pro) 3. Be proactive 4. Keep your standards high (great play from one player can raise the bar for others by example) 5. If you play stupid, you will die, sans the mercy of the dice,
You can also ask your player at the end of the session. So, what will you guys do next time? Where do you want to go? This helps me only preparing stuff relevant to the next session. Give them a few options and tell them what that region is like.
Great vid sir! I wonder how these 4 things and GM 5 things change based on the frequency and mode of play. For example, if you have a weekly in person group, then all of these strategies fit nicely. What about if you play bi-monthly or monthly and it is all online? Sometimes I struggle with prep when I plan out a session and then have to set up the VTT.
Re character death: does the new character start right at lvl 1, though? Because I can see that being an issue: having to start from scratch and be useless to the party for however long.
I think that really depends on the game you are playing. If playing a heroic fantasy game (like d&d 5e) let them make a character at the same level or one below the other PCs. If you are playing an open table and a some osr rule set the level difference will not be that great of an issue, because the power progression is usually not that steep.
Hey 👋 5e fans, check out The Black Hack 2e! I won't tell you that you have to play it... But I genuinely think alot of you will really really like it... Lol it's not my style of game and I still love it, definitely one of the coolest rule books I've ever seen and I'm sure a few of you will love the art.
Soooo I really want to meet more friends into tabletop games... People to talk to about all the different systems I read and desperately want to run/play/talk about ! Hopefully people not only into 5e ( 5e is ok I'm just long past it at this point ) maybe even some people to game with online 😸🙌 Uuuuh.... Anyone know a good place or places for me to meet people and chat ?
Give honest feedback to your GM. If something is awesome, say so in front of everyone; if something is not so great, tell them later in private. Be polite, and be honest.
Player quirk system: player works with dm but effectively they have a hatred or fear based on personal experience and in the game they work it out. Fear of spider b/c family killed by giant spider: every time they encounter a spider there is a chance they freak out, they roll, as they succeed they improve odds they don’t freak out, and at a certain rank of “spider points” they now do increased damage to spiders. If it’s a racial thing, a certain group of elves killed my family, they have improvements in battle and impairments in speaking, dm uses the setting to make them talk to these types(best on a class that does lots of talking) but over time as they learn more about elves they appreciate the race. They maintain battle improvement for that one group but end up with better outcomes when talking to elves. These can be changed for any setting. Working this in to the game makes a character able to play a quirk uniquely in the game and grow, characters love seeing their characters grow, but grow in a way that’s not simply combat numbers, even though it would be implemented as combat numbers. But doing this in any setting, possibly even using some game’s charts for developing fears and stuff, means you could add quirks to any character on the fly so even if they have played a class before this particular character feels different. Slime almost kills party early on? One of the characters now has a slime phobia starting a new arch for them. Keeping track of their slime quirk means they probably are keeping better track of everything.
I think you shouldn't have put Mapping in there as one of the four. Even in old school groups its pretty hit or miss if the party has to track their own map.
"duties of a D&D player" proceeds to talk about something that is not D&D. *FRAUD* You wouldn't know D&D if it jumped up and bit you in the goodberries.
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You should get this advice on a PDF as a hand out, i know you must have a transcript.
@@greygoblin9491 It's in the PDF of Knave 2e, which is only in playtests right now.
@@QuestingBeast smart
Right on. Edit: There's a tacit assumption that's common in TTG community (not prevalent, but common) that the GM is the adult at the table. I appreciate the implication here that the GM and players are all equally responsible for the health of the game. Frequently, the players see their responsibility as "Play my character". It's not. It's "Play the game" which is a larger role than the character. This is a great video and a great philosophy.
Good insight!
@@jeremytitus9519 Thank you! Ben is very inspiring.
1:10 assist the game master
3:30 play your character
5:17 confronting the world
8:17 prepare to die
I think I'm going to turn this into a handout for all my players going forward.
Assist the Game Master -- Hello
Play your Character -- My name is Inigo Montoya
Confront the World -- You killed my Father
Prepare to Die -- Prepare to Die
@@steveholmes11 prepare to die -- plin plin plon
Agree with all of these. If there was a fifth tenant added, I think a good one is that players should be playing with other players. I often feel like I'm running multiple 1-on-1 adventures in a given session where each player is primarily interacting with me as the GM and rarely with the others at the table. They can really flesh out the world and their camaraderie on their own, even with little physical moments or remarks, which is rewarding for them and gives the GM more potential hooks.
Knowing where the PCs are going next session, or atleast having an idea of what the goal for the first hour to two of the next game, is extremely important. It gives an idea of what to play and gives a chance to build plans of where the game might be going. It helps to ensure a strong start for each session which can more easily translate to a strong session overall. Before people leave, the DM should know what the start should be.
Thanks for talking about "tactical infinity" (First time I have ever heard the term) As someone who only ever really played video games, "tactical infinity" is my main reason for wanting to get into tabletop. Trying to actually take the world seriously in many video games usually just leads to a lot of frustration (and dying to enemies who's lives you were trying to spare).
What the gm needs to make clear is whether the player are going to play adventurers in an adverse World, or the heros of a story the gm has been planning for them
I would be so happy if my players did half of those things. Never happened. They expected late to be fine. They expected to be spoon fed the adventure and only rarely were any of them ready for their turn in combat.Two years ago I folded up the screen and have very little desire to host a table anymore. After thirty-five years my game worlds are now settings for novels and I'm 45,000 words into the first one.
There is not nearly enough player advice for RPGs. Player skill is a thing and recognizing that is one of my favorite features of OSR.
Dear players, this is not a video game tutorial mission and your character sheet is not a controller with buttons to push.
I once had a player talk back to the DM for giving him a "useless item" and said he refused to pick it up unless it did something when it was both plot relevant and if he was paying attention would know he had to study it first to unlock said power. Mind you the DM already showered him with a lot of powerful items before. That's when I knew he was going to be a problem player.
This is a major complaint I get. Its really infuriating and it takes me right out of my flow. Like, I do all this work put these flavorful trinkets in the world and I get this childish behavior from adults. Really brought me into being a more unforgiving and hardcore DM out of numbness.
Meanwhile, my players will pick up completely mundane rocks just because they look neat. :D
@@duskworkerdron5901 See when I see this, I always reward that kind of nonsense.
DM: *Looks around the table* does anyone else pick up the clearly-not-mundane item?
Right, then. Moving along.
I would ignore that player's tantrum. We don't reward tantrums. Everyone can have a bad day, but if this happens multiple times, they might get an "invitation" to depart the group.
Literally just wrote down all of your points and added them to a document ill be sending to my players. Thanks Ben!
Some good tips
Knowing your next move is a big help especially in combat
Myself and another player usually try to find music or soundscapes to play in the background, makes things more immersive.
It really does add an extra layer of immersion!
Ben, in a nutshell be engaged and prepared. Communicate effectively with the DM and fellow PCs. Thank you for this.
I’ve found that the later releases / editions of DnD are more “video game” themed with a feeling of the PCs being the main characters and everything occurs to them and not necessarily because of them. I still have enjoyed 3.5, Pathfinder and 5e but that’s what I get sometimes.
I had too many games where people treated threats as if it was some Marvel superhero movie and goof off and never use basic tactics or team work. When somebody actually ran the game the way it was supposed to everyone in the group except me ended up dying at least once because they were not used to the idea that their characters could die.
A character who takes initiative can be so fun
It gives me something to plan for and it puts a lot of pressure off my shoulders to make something naturally occur because they're prodding for things
I don't have to make goblins/cult/gangsters to attack the party because the party has a lead on a goblin hideout, information about cult abductions and a crime scene to investigate
If you're a player PLEASE interact with the world I've spent a month building
Ask me about the economy and how one would go about crimes involving it
This is YOUR world as much as it is mine
My game almost never uses dungeons anymore but if the players want a map of an area that isn't easy to keep track of in their heads, I insist they draw their own maps - I will not provide the map for them.
I agree, it's frustrating when players just wait for the story to come to them. Because I want a story to happen, it's unfortunate that I will give it to them if they wait long enough. I need to run a campaign where I make them work for it a bit more, to remind them that they can't expect adventure to come looking for them.
The original dungeon crawl concept of the game had the players doing all of their own mapping based on the DMs descriptions and input. The DM would sometimes provide deliberately wrong info that’d cause confusion. Good times.
I try to include dungeons, but for organic reasons .. a cave system, old barrows, ancient part of city now built over & forgotten, etc, not just have "random dungeon 101" in middle of no where.
@@danielrowan4716 a DM providing deliberately wrong mapping information is a DM doing a bad job
Well if they refuse to leave town perhaps give them a choice.... People offer them mundane jobs.... 2 coppers to carry thing from point A to point B, meanwhile they hear about a group of adventurers that went to check out some ruins if they hang out in the tavern.... If they ignore the plot hook, they later just hear that those adventurers haven't come out.
@@nekocam Probably depends on the context though.... And how the DM is providing this information.... (If the DM is like "You find an old map" and gives you a handout of said map, and then later reveals that it's missing information or is outright wrong/outdated when the players actually visit the area that the map represents, well that's probably going to be a bit different than the DM outright lying to the players.... Or the players are "Mapping" the area without actually visiting it first based on the senile ramblings of old man McQuest Giver, then I'd say it's forgivable that it be incomplete/wrong )
I'd also say that if the DM makes it very clear that what the players see might not be real(Because illusions, traps and hidden doors might remain undetected if the players failed their score)
The important part is that the DM not lie to the players OOC when giving wrong information to their players, and stick to wording such as "Well it certainly SEEMS to be safe." or "This is what your character sees." (You can present wrong information this way without lying to the player. Just because you said that the character doesn't see a trap door for instance doesn't mean there is no trap door, or that the player was lied to when you as DM did not tell them about the trap door. It just means the players will likely be missing a trap door in their dungeon map that they may discover sooner or later upon returning to that area....)
It could also be a fun way to set up non-ecludion geometry.... Like hallways being longer than they should be and rooms not seeming to fit together quite right...
Concur on your assessment. The biggest takeaway is: meet your DM halfway. It’s more engaging and immersive if you are an active participant.
Very insightful. And now I'm tempted to make this "required reading" for players in campaigns I run, haha.
For the last one, i really like whitehacks approach with character death. Where they become a ghost for the rest of the session.
With Whitehack, it's probably necessary to have some kind of rule like that since character creation involves more DM bandwidth than other OSR systems (e.g. negotiating groups, miracles, Deft specialities).
Great advice. Adding this to a list of videos for players to watch.
We are very similar in how we DM. I agree completely. Your content is extremely helpful. Oh, and Knave is awesome! Well done all the way around.
I enjoy your constant acknowledgement that there are different ways to play. So many people get focused on how THEY play as the one true way to play, but in nearly every case here, you caveat the strong opinions with a mention that it's fine to play differently.
Great video Ben. On another point, DMing advice from all please. I’ve just started a new campaign, switching to an OSR style play. First two sessions, a combat, all good. Third session, where the players have to choose where to go, bit of a disaster because I didn’t give enough information to them on the complex plot I had developed, so they didn’t engage. Moral of the story I think - keep the plot simple, get information to players immediately
Thanks for those two good advices videos. Really good stuff for everyone!
I let my players keep track of initiative, gold, plot points, characters and so on.
That’s funny you talking about character death, our last encounter we ran away because we would have got killed if we didn’t
Not enough people run away now, or if they do run it would always be too late after trying to pick a fight with said monster.
You're learning.
Amazing video! Just shared this to my players. What a succinct summary of advice for new players! And best of all it applies to any game system, even 5e!
This is such an amazing video, really put to words some of the stuff that was on my mind. Just sent it to my group, can't wait to see what they think!
1:04
Ad ends.
I really like Knave, it's not my thing to run BUT god forbid I needed to introduce completely new players to the concept, yea it's the best and most simple/functional system I have ever seen, and I have taken some of your ideas from Knave into my House rules for the OSR Systems I like to run. The encumbrance rule is amazing for building on / using in general for systems with badly defined encumbrance systems. As well anything that's introducing the hobby to younger generations is an absolutely wonderful thing! 😸 Which is both Ben and his systems ! ( God I WISH I had a teacher like him growing up, would have been an incredibly positive influence.)
I have never heard the term "tactical infinity" before, but I now feel like my life prior to learning this term was incomplete.
I believe it was invented by S. John Ross, creator of Risus
I’ve just found your channel and I’m loving your videos!
Do you have or can you do some videos on how best to keep track of a campaign from the GM stance?
80% of this are concepts my players would never accept. My life is so sad. 😢
@Asher Shunn Thank you for putting it better than I could
You are the DM. You have the prerogative to set your table’s rules and to set demands for your players. At least, talk it out with them and find out where you disagree on and if there’s a way to negotiate so everyone is happy.
If they aren’t happy, they can leave just as much as you can. No D&D is better than bad D&D!
Ben, this was great and I'm going to share the link with my group. My players do a lot of these kinds of things already. I'm pretty lucky in that regard
Great stuff friend 👏 👍
1. Arrive on time or earlier (a game will take hours to play, its a big commitment, do not waste peoples effort)
2. Be Respectful, (play like a Pro)
3. Be proactive
4. Keep your standards high (great play from one player can raise the bar for others by example)
5. If you play stupid, you will die, sans the mercy of the dice,
You can also ask your player at the end of the session. So, what will you guys do next time? Where do you want to go? This helps me only preparing stuff relevant to the next session. Give them a few options and tell them what that region is like.
Great vid sir! I wonder how these 4 things and GM 5 things change based on the frequency and mode of play. For example, if you have a weekly in person group, then all of these strategies fit nicely. What about if you play bi-monthly or monthly and it is all online? Sometimes I struggle with prep when I plan out a session and then have to set up the VTT.
These videos rock!
Very solid advice.
Yup, the last one can be examples in real life. Our whole job is to prepare for death.
Return the map! Return what you have stolen from me!!
3:10 You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can be and will be used against you.
Re character death: does the new character start right at lvl 1, though? Because I can see that being an issue: having to start from scratch and be useless to the party for however long.
I think that really depends on the game you are playing. If playing a heroic fantasy game (like d&d 5e) let them make a character at the same level or one below the other PCs. If you are playing an open table and a some osr rule set the level difference will not be that great of an issue, because the power progression is usually not that steep.
Nice one!
Amen once again
very good thanks
Solid.
Hey 👋 5e fans, check out The Black Hack 2e! I won't tell you that you have to play it... But I genuinely think alot of you will really really like it... Lol it's not my style of game and I still love it, definitely one of the coolest rule books I've ever seen and I'm sure a few of you will love the art.
Is that an S. John Ross reference!?
Many moons ago he once offered to run me a game,
And said I was welcome at his table anytime,
@@Tony-lc5kc He had an open invitation to e-mail him on the MDME document... And I did! We touch base every now and then.
Soooo I really want to meet more friends into tabletop games... People to talk to about all the different systems I read and desperately want to run/play/talk about ! Hopefully people not only into 5e ( 5e is ok I'm just long past it at this point ) maybe even some people to game with online 😸🙌
Uuuuh.... Anyone know a good place or places for me to meet people and chat ?
Give honest feedback to your GM. If something is awesome, say so in front of everyone; if something is not so great, tell them later in private. Be polite, and be honest.
Part 2 is why I don't play anymore... Too many Saturday morning cartoon PC's
Player quirk system: player works with dm but effectively they have a hatred or fear based on personal experience and in the game they work it out. Fear of spider b/c family killed by giant spider: every time they encounter a spider there is a chance they freak out, they roll, as they succeed they improve odds they don’t freak out, and at a certain rank of “spider points” they now do increased damage to spiders. If it’s a racial thing, a certain group of elves killed my family, they have improvements in battle and impairments in speaking, dm uses the setting to make them talk to these types(best on a class that does lots of talking) but over time as they learn more about elves they appreciate the race. They maintain battle improvement for that one group but end up with better outcomes when talking to elves.
These can be changed for any setting. Working this in to the game makes a character able to play a quirk uniquely in the game and grow, characters love seeing their characters grow, but grow in a way that’s not simply combat numbers, even though it would be implemented as combat numbers.
But doing this in any setting, possibly even using some game’s charts for developing fears and stuff, means you could add quirks to any character on the fly so even if they have played a class before this particular character feels different.
Slime almost kills party early on? One of the characters now has a slime phobia starting a new arch for them. Keeping track of their slime quirk means they probably are keeping better track of everything.
I think you shouldn't have put Mapping in there as one of the four. Even in old school groups its pretty hit or miss if the party has to track their own map.
Sucks that 90% of players are garbage and would never do these.
That's why I play solo RPGS now a days
@@bigblue344 Same, occasionally 1 other person at the most.
Its your standards of who you let play that's the problem,
@@Tony-lc5kc why would we have excluded everyone if our standards were to low? Or are you suggesting they are too high? 🤡
@@09lonedrone
Logic
You let bad players in because your standards are too low,
Make sense?
"duties of a D&D player" proceeds to talk about something that is not D&D. *FRAUD*
You wouldn't know D&D if it jumped up and bit you in the goodberries.