Agree with your assessment. First time it happens, it's hard to say for certain what's going on. Can't really eject without some pretty clear evidence. The second time it happens, especially with no play at 3B, and it's pretty clear what's going on now. I'm ejecting the catcher. I'm hoping I'll be backed up by my assignors when I say it was necessary for player safety. We can't just let the catcher keep pegging batters from two feet away.
No intent necessary for ejection unlike a catcher if you feel it was malicious & or unsporstmanlike at this level BOTH manager & player are ejected the player has to show up for the next game, but can not play coach/manager can not be at the next game or be privy to any post game confrence/ celebration at the field or in the game by ANY MEANS not even texting the assistant coach with instructions.
Even on the first throw it was intentional. The 3rd baseman is six feet INSIDE the line…she is throwing in line with the base coach. But the, that is dangerous, no excuse for that STUFF.
The earlier one is borderline, but nothing called. The second one was intentional and should have resulted in the catcher/manager ejected. The umpire shrugging his shoulders in both situations with no warnings or ejections for the second instance is ludicrous.
I would actually contend that the batter did the catcher a favor on the 1st play IF there was actually a play on as it gave the catcher a clear throwing lane. If people are going to claim interference on the 1st play, then in all likelihood, the catcher's was going to end up in the stands or somewhere down the left field line. This is clearly MC/UC and I would have two ejections, F2 AND the HC.
@@deanb024 Agreed. You have to eject certainly after the second instance. The umpire shrugging his shoulders and doing nothing is only inviting the next batter to take a wild swing at the next pitch and catch the catcher in the head. Umpire needs to get control of this situation right away. Doing nothing is not the right answer.
@Ryan Lewis Softball umpires seem to turn a blind eye to dirty play by catchers. There's a video of a HS catcher throwing elbows and knocking over incoming runners when there isn't even a play at the plate.
This girl threw at a young ladies face from point blank range. I mean wth? She should be banned, she could have knocked out all her teeth, crushed her eye socket or even worse. If a coach taught that to F2 they should be fired
Oh god... the first one is borderline.. I could see why the no call simply because even with the ball going to the fence.. the runner made no attempt to move and really, even a back pick only could have hurt the defense as the 3rd basemen was in front of the runner... .. the second one is malicious contact/unsportsmanlike... the second one would have had my game down a catcher and her manager.
I umped a lot of rec HS girls SB, most of the time the girls are taught to get out of the way of a potential throw & maybe steel home, however seeing as the catcher threw the ball out of play 2 basses awarded, yes there could be interference by the batter..... Iffy call there, to me looked kind of deliberate trying to get the interference call, not on my watch. The second : ABOSUTLY BOTH he catcher & manager are ejected & warnings issued to BOTH teams.
I would have ejected the catcher and coach after 2nd hit batter. No attempt from r2 After the first hit batter I would have called the coaches over and go over the procedure so it doesn’t happen again. Now if the teams look inexperienced I’ll even offer explaining to the catchers and let batters know there responsibilities as a batter,,,,,Game management is necessary here.
@@kelvinmorris1991 wow so you’ve witnessed this in more than 1 game? What state and city is this in ? There district UIC should be correcting this scenario with his umpires giving them direction on how to handle this.
As a 39 year veteran of umpiring high school softball, I would have ejected the catcher in the 6th inning for her in sporting actions. The coach may have followed depending on his/her actions.
Just plain wrong in both instances. C'mon, throwing to third the first time? Eject catcher, coach and get a new umpire. This ump has no knowledge of the game. Also, look at the throwing angle of the catch in both instances. If that catcher didn't hit the batter, the ball would be nowhere near third base. Peace
Then you are a horrible umpire. The catcher was just reacting to the runners on base. And the girl was in the batters box. You play small ball shit like this will happen.
@@RaJ-lw3im you made a great argument! She did it in several games and was just tossed from the league for intent, the school is on two years probation, and coach was dismissed from coaching softball. It's not supposed to be a loophole, but she had earned her team outs by plunking batters on purpose for obstruction calls.
While my gear and strike/ball counter has been put in the attic for a long time that catcher would have been GONE immediately on the 2nd "offense" and the coach would have followed with even a little objection. Horrible unsportsmanlike conduct and actions!
Throwing a ball into the back of a runner 60 feet away is one thing. Throwing at their face from 2 feet away is something else entirely. Especially when there is no play and it has already happened once that game. This is something that usually only happens a couple times a season if that (unless intentional)
First one feels scummy, but there's the backpick element. I'd keep my eye on F2. Second one is no doubt Malicious Contact and Unsportswomanlike Conduct. F2 is ejected. I would write it up as a player safety issue as well as MC/UC.
I appreciate your detailed and thorough breakdown. This was clearly malicious. Unless she is the absolute worst catcher ever, she had no intent but to drill the batter on both attempts, not even close to looking like she's trying to throw it to third. She is either fucked in the head, or her coach is for inciting her to do this (which should definitely not be mislabeled as any sort of gamesmanship, just a pure bush league attempt to manipulate the rules). Either way there is no room in the game for it.
It’s pretty clear after the first one when the coach immediately argues for the batter to be called out for being hit, he knew she was going to hit her, because he thought her too.
UIL put the school district and the athletic director/coach on two years of probation. The coach/athletic director admitted that the same catcher had done the same thing in four other games and they had benefitted from five interference calls. He also admitted that he believed that the catcher hit the batters on purpose though he claimed that what he saw in the video is not how he remembered events during the game.
Great explanation on what could be called here. I never thought about this being a potential malicious contact play because I think of malicious contact involving physical contact in some manner between two plays i.e. collision or excessively hard tag.
Thanks for sharing. The NFHS rule may have good intentions, the normal process of the batter to reset can't be ignored. If the batter takes an exaggerated drop step(s) then maybe you've got interference. Sounds like the way the rule is written NFHS wants to remove umpire judgement from these situations. I agree with Lindsay that this has all the markings of the catcher "trying" to get an interference call. I would be comfortable tossing both F2 and the HC. Looks to me like batters player safety is of no concern to the defense.
The NFHS rule isnt really different from the professional rules on this particular kind of interference: its also true in MLB that the batter is protected from interfering only as long as they stay in the box, and that its consequently necessary for batters to recognize when the catcher is going to attempt a play and not step out of the box as they risk interference if that happens.
@@mikejunt The batters box is not a sanctuary per the rules. Well coached batters stand still and that is how they get protection. If a batter moves up or back in the box they can be called for interference. The catcher has no way to know which way they will go. (not the case in this video).
This is something that you see maybe once in you baseball lifetime. Not a batter being hit by a thrown ball from the catcher, but a batter being hit on the front side from a catcher. To see it twice in the same game and with there being absolutely no play at 3rd during the second one, it is clearly malicious contact and the catcher should have been suspended
I was a catcher for 4 years, high school and travel. Not once have I came close to hitting a batter nor have I ever seen any other catcher do something like this. This is just disgusting
First is borderline. Deserves a comment to batter, catcher and coaches to be mindful of all players safety. Second time is malicious contact with an ejection of catcher and coach. You can see after the first throw that she asks umpire for a call. This was coached. Knowing Texas UIL, I would not be surprised is catcher and coach receive suspensions. This has been found in earlier games by same player and coach. Clearly this coach is teaching these acts and deserves to lose his teaching certification (or at minimum not coach again).
We were taught to step out of the box after every pitch. So that rules is very confusing. They are just supposed to stay in the box the whole time so it isn't considered interference? She didn't even attempt to go around or anything. It was too casual as she got up and threw straight at her face.
You should stay in the box if the catcher is attempting a play to a base, and step out only after the activity at home plate is over. You see this a lot in the pros, the rules are the same there: MLB hitters know to stay in the box when they see their guys attempting steals, because incidental contact with the batter on a throw isn't interference as long as they stay in the box, where they're entitled to be. This is even true if the contact is with your bat, like if you swung at the pitch or checked your swing. Stepping out is a good idea, but you shouldn't do it if you see your own player in motion until the ball has left the plate area.
You can tell the parents we’re ready to complain if the ump didn’t call it, which means they have been doing it all season. Catcher was asking for the call too.
Used to umpirea high school in Los Angeles where they taught the catcher to step into the batter on attempted steals at second. Problem is, we all knew about it. So I have since wondered if they actually LOST OUT on actual Interference calls because of their reputation.
I saw this a couple days ago - Like you, I thought possible interference on the 1st instance with R3, even though the throw would have had to be the worst throw to actually try and throw to 3rd (didn't even look like a real attempt to throw to 3B), the angle was all wrong, but at least there was someone on 3rd to try and throw out. The 2nd time she does it, there isn't even a play at 3rd. Now, I umpire softball and baseball. With softball, sometimes a catcher will throw down to 3rd if R2 takes a big "half-way to third" type lead instead of running her back (need to remember look-back rule in softball, very different play mechanic than baseball). Here though, the 3B is playing WAY in, so that couldn't be the issue either. Here I think the catcher is malicious/unsportsmanlike and I would have ejected the catcher; what she did was extremely dangerous, throw at the head/face of a player on purpose.
Hitting someone in the dick should be an automatic ejection. Also, stepping BACKWARD out of the box shouldn't possibly be called interference, or at least should be a subjective decision by the umpires (to be on the safe side) because unless there's something really funky going on with infielder positioning, plunking a batter in the head who has gone a step or two back would mean the ball was thrown in a vector out into the dugout. At that softball game/level it might be a good idea to conference with the coach after that first hit in the head and say "While I understand the rules situation that might merit such a throw that you have coached the player on, if your player chucks it into someone's head that's dangerous and if it happens again I''ll eject her and you" under the 'General Article' of the Umpire having the authority to disqualify any player for unsporting conduct.
Not necessarily. Catchers are taught to drop step and give themselves a throwing lane to third (not what this catcher did). That doesn’t mean a throwing vector to the dugout. But having a batter step back out of the box is interference for that very reason. In actual competitive play (not trying to just get a bogus judgement from an umpire) the catcher doesn’t have time to decide which way the batter is going to move before throwing. The batter should be stationary and the catcher work around them. If the batter moves into the throw/out of the box, it’s clear interference. There also should be a legitimate play at third, which wasn’t the case in either of these throws.
The video that I saw on Twitter had the bases-loaded situation second, so I thought that one happened afterward. After the second one (with the runner on second base), the catcher is gone and anyone who says a word about it is gone. If the coach argues it I'm going into full-blown Bob Davidson mode. :)
This girl should have been ejected and suspended. This is clearly uncalled for and very unsportsmanlike, clearly falls on the coach and maybe even the parents for allowing this kind of behavior in a game.
Neither of those throws actually look as if they catcher is aiming for third base, even the first one looked strangely wild, if not deliberate and the second was absolutely malicious/intentional..
If I were the parents of the hit players I would honestly pursue charges against the catcher. It's seems the intent here was to harm the other player and wasn't close to being a normal softball action. Then sue the coach(for not stepping in and correcting the catcher) and league(because of the inaction of the ump) then finally the school district for failing to provide a safe environment for players and not stopping the harm being caused right away.
First one was more than likely enough to warrant the interference call. It had the elements needed. However the second one also had the elements for malicious contact and ejection of catcher and coach.
I don't see how this is even a question on whether this was intentional or not. Nothing makes sense at all. I was a catcher for 4 years travel and high school and I've never came close to hitting a batter. First of all the batter is bunting so third is automatically charging and short stop wasn't even close to covering third so who is the catcher trying to throw to?On top of that the runner on second was leading off but obviously not committing to stealing. When a catcher pops up and throws that fast its normally when you have a good fast base runner on 3rd that's taking a big lead off and trying for a pickle. Another thing, she didn't even check if the batter was okay. She immediately retrieved the ball and got it back to the pitcher showing no concern whatsoever. I've accidentally hurt other players before and the very first thing I do is ask if they're okay and apologize. If that girl was bunting it's safe to say that she's probably a fast and good base runner and injuring her/or trying to claim she "interfered" both reasons to keep her off base.
Looks to me like the coach has spent time telling the catcher that if you just drill the batter you might get an interference call. However the catcher doesn’t quite understand that the play at least has to appear like you are trying to throw out a runner at third. And the batter really needs to be fully out of the box. The first play here is marginal. I don’t think in the first play the catcher was actually trying to throw out the runner at third. I think she was trying to hit the batter. The second play is an ejection for malicious contact. Easy. And a good talking to for the head coach and a report to the league about how this coach is coaching his or her players. That’s not how we want to play softball.
She has the intention to do 1 or both of the following things... 1. Hurt the batter 2. get a cheap out call Shame on you. Ejection/suspension/banned from playing are most certainly in order.
There was no play at 3rd on either play. 3rd baseman was playing off the bag on both plays seemingly ready to charge for a bunt or a weak ground ball and was NOT is any position to make a play in either instance.
Agree that for the ump, its likely nothing the first time, but an ejection of the catcher and the coach the second time, given the situation. As for beyond the game, this catcher should be off the team and depending on the investigation, perhaps expelled from the school. Coach fired and possibly sued by the parents of the batter. Id love to see a heavy backswing on the catchers head, but this isnt war, its just girls HS softball and there is no place for retribution there.
Yes, the first play can prove something. The catcher was not throwing the ball to the third baseman and can easily be seen that she intended to throw the ball at the batter's head. As for the second batter hit, I suspect there is more to this story.
The body language of the catcher says it all. If it was indeed an accident, most players would show some sort of "oh crap" emotion. In both occurrences, the the catcher makes no gestures of concern to the batter. Either a total jerk catcher or a total jerk coach - or both!
@@austin.draude I agree. As an Ump and Ref, I have to look at pattern of behavior. Better believe I would stick that player in my memory bank though for futured incidents.
I think the case could be made that what looked like an aggressive lead off (after the pitch, so it looks like faking to steal simce I think in softball you can't lead off before the pitch is thrown) it seemed to the catcher to look like stealing. But if it really is getting this bad (I don't really watch softball so I don't know of any game play trends) it could be in both baseball and softball to be akin to flopping in basketball. Forcing a mistake by the other team that they didn't commit, and have the offensive team penalized since the defense tricked the official.
I just say thank heavens I played softball in the 80's and this type of play was NEVER thought. My daughter played softball in the 90's and 2000's and this play was not in the books. We must be getting more vicious
There wasn't a play at third the first time either, the runner was clearly slowing before the catcher threw the ball. You can also see her adjust her aim with each throw. Her head begins to look one way, she turns her head slightly to target the batter and lets loose. Even the trajectory of both throws is way off, especially the second one.
Partial clarification - the batter interference rule also states the batter cannot interfere, even if staying in the box. In the first case, call an out. In the second case, eject the catcher.
I think Lindsey makes a rare misstatement of a rule, when she says at 1:13, "If the batter stays in the box, you have nothing, but if the batter steps out of the box on a pickoff, by rule, that's interference." That's not really right. The latter half of that statement is right: Stepping out of the box and hindering the throw is interference by rule, but the batter can ALSO interfere without leaving the box. The rule defines interference as "...stepping out of the batter's box [OR] making any movement which hinders action at home after the pitch reaches the catcher..." A batter obviously can't vanish into thin air, but they can be expected to stay still during a play, which is what the rule requires. As with all interference calls, intention is not relevant - though of course it is in a ruling on malicious contact. One other side note: If one draws a line from the catcher to the batter in the video, it appears clear that third base is nowhere near collinear with those two players. If not for the batter, the catcher's throw would sail over the third-base dugout. At least from the angle shown, it's really not credible that F2 was attempting a throw to third, which should definitely figure into any ejection.
First one, ok. I can see a no-call there. Second one, catcher and manager are gone. There was no play. There was no chance at a play even if the runner were going. There is now a pattern and you have to shut it down before there's an attempt at retaliation.
I've dealt with some kids growing up playing sports that were POS scumbags. People that will cheat and do things violent just to win. I hope I'm never in a situation where one of my children gets hurt by someone like this because the anger I am feeling is a whole different thing. The catcher should be brought up on assault charges and the coach should be fired and never be allowed to coach
But it's also coached to just stand there by coaches and sending a runner. Everyone forgets the second part of that rule which means you can remain in the box but you must make an attention not to interfer.
Its stuff like this that is the reason why I will never ref kids sports again. Coaches that teach their players to game the officials rather than focusing on playing the game always pissed me off. This is really bad because you can injure someone. Ejecting the catcher and coach on the second play would have been an obvious call and I would warn that team they are on thin ice the rest of the game. 99.99999% of these kids are not going pro or even playing D1. Winning doesn't matter. Just teach them fundamentals and how to be a decent teammate and competitor.
In the first case the catcher almost threw the ball into the dug out. Maybe you can make the case that the ball slipped when she saw where the batter is but that is a stretch. At a minimum a warning should have been given. One the second one with no steal and no one covering the base it is a real stretch to say that was not intentional. Immediate ejection for malicious contact.
First instance, warning that the batter is allowed to remain in the box and the throw should be to the fielder. Second onstance, ejection as no genuine throw attempt made, just malicious contact
I don't agree with those who say the first one was interference. The catcher was not throwing to 3rd on either one, and that should matter. I don't know if an ump has the discretion to consider a catcher's intent in these instances? If not, they should.
Kind of wish the offensive players were more heads up about this. Running to first, just get in the lane. Yes, it's a few more inches to run, but if they try to hit you with the ball, they're giving you a base. For the "throws to third", take a few quick hop steps backward toward the dugout. If they still hit you when you're that far out of the path to potentially throw a runner out, it's going to be obvious and lead to an ejection. Draw the call, as it were.
@@CommonSense823 Are we watching the same video? They're clearly not being coached to stay in the box despite the catchers being coached to hit them. If they're going to leave the box, do it with some pace.
What I’m telling you is 1)the rule says they need to be in the box to not be called for interference, and 2) the catcher should be taking a drop step back behind the box to get a clear throwing lane to third. Coaching your players to step back out of the box (no matter the pace) will get them hurt and they’ll be out. Not smart.
@@CommonSense823 And I'm telling you to look at what they ARE doing. If they're stepping out of the box anyway, which, again, since you seem to need it repeated, THEY ARE ALREADY DOING THIS, they need to step back quicker and draw the unsportsmanlike call. Should they stay in the box? Yes. Are they? No, so they need to do it better.
@@Desirsar or…. You could coach them to follow the rules for their own safety. You are either coaching it or letting it happen. In either case, it’s wrong.
Softball umpire here. This looks like nothing but an attempt to buy an INT call whenever a batter steps away from the plate area by an unethical catcher and coach. The first one is plausible, and the batter is stepping from the box when hit. It's very nearly INT, if F2 had been making a legitimate back pick to F5. However, a throw like that is going to "smell funny" and it's going to be higher on my radar for the rest of the game. I eject F2 in the sixth inning, and the head coach is probably going to follow if he defends her actions during the follow-up conversation to replace her in the lineup. I write up the whole thing plus my suspicions to the State Office and wash my hands of it. Unfortunately, due to the umpire shortage and subsequent decrease in available quality of officials, in this clip the PU looks overmatched and not confident in his ability to properly officiate this situation.
With regards to the first play, I would personally not have called interference. I understand if you would have called it. The second play, definitely MC and ejection of the catcher and head coach. It's tough to see as a PU (maybe too close to judge intent IMO), but BU should eject. This reminds me of the softball game where the plate umpire got drilled in the mask and the BU tossed F1, F2, and HC followed by a forfeit.
when you look at third base for a total of 3 seconds and hold the ball in the air paused! Knowing the fact that no one is stealing third! and she still hits them with the ball. The 2nd baseman was already heading to second base when that girl threw the ball at her face. The catcher should be banned from softball and contact sports permanently.
For the coaches in the comments, here’s an idea! Instead of trying to exploit a rule maybe practice fundamentals more. This is beyond unsportsmanlike. It’s MC in my opinion. Blue could even argue it on the earlier inning one. From the replay the catcher appears to wait for the batter to step out to throw at her. One could argue that exploiting this rule, or attempting to, is malicious contact. They intended to hit the batter and they did. Certainly it’s hard to make that call live. But on the later one where no possible play, ejections and in this case calls to the AD.
It's hard to tell from the video but it seems malicious if the ball is thrown in the direction of the batter as opposed to the direction of the 3rd bass/fielder (who stepped further into the field of play to catch the expected throw). The batter probably thought they were getting out of the way but the rules make that difficult. I assume it can still be called interference if the catcher has to change their throw (eg. over head) to avoid hitting the batter if the other requirements are met. Surely you could lessen the blow if you know it's going to hit the batter. There's about 10 variations/situations to describe how this rule applies.
If I were coach of the team that was batting, I would be into the opposing coach in an instant after the second throw. That girl could have been seriously injured! And the play in the pro baseball game…as the batter, it would ON!!! That little jerk gets put down. That is not baseball.
In the earlier inning, her throw went to the dug out. This was the fourth team of the year the girl did this to, Umpire did not do his job. This Cisco, the offensive team, is ten miles from me. Mccamy is a good town, but the coach needs to be fired.
The team that the batter who was intentionally struck, needs to do a vigilante justice and teach that piece of 💩 catcher not to intentionally try to hurt people. The more she gets away with that BS, the more she'll think she can get away with it. So, team of the batter, go bust that girl up and protect your teammate!!!!
As it turns out she did not further get away with it, and she was kicked out of the league entirely, as was her coach, and the entire team and school were placed on 2 years probation. Which is the right way to do it, not physical vigilante justice that might get someone else injured.
My question is why weren't the police called? This is assault with a weapon. Softball. Rock. No difference. Throwing intentionally at the face of someone with the power she threw could have badly injured the batter.
Even if they were trying to pull the interference call, there is no need to throw at the head. If I were the opposing coach, I would have sent a batter up to stand back in the box and take a wide back swing.
I don't advocate parents interfering with games, but if that was my daughter at bat in the second one, I would have been on that field. That is an extremely dangerous play. Luckily it hit the bill of her helmet, but it could very well have hit here square in the face. I would have lost it. No one does that to my daughter.
Agree with your assessment. First time it happens, it's hard to say for certain what's going on. Can't really eject without some pretty clear evidence. The second time it happens, especially with no play at 3B, and it's pretty clear what's going on now. I'm ejecting the catcher. I'm hoping I'll be backed up by my assignors when I say it was necessary for player safety. We can't just let the catcher keep pegging batters from two feet away.
Catcher AND coach. Particularly at this level, the catcher doesn't decide to make this play.
Totally agree Catcher and manager are gone... And should been ejected...
Based upon what happened the second time, it's pretty clear what happened the first time was equally criminal.
catcher, coach i am suspending the team if i was the leauge
No intent necessary for ejection unlike a catcher if you feel it was malicious & or unsporstmanlike at this level BOTH manager & player are ejected the player has to show up for the next game, but can not play coach/manager can not be at the next game or be privy to any post game confrence/ celebration at the field or in the game by ANY MEANS not even texting the assistant coach with instructions.
Call me crazy but I don't know why she should ever play the game again. That looked insane.
Except in prison league.
You're crazy.
Crazy
Nope she should be banned from ever playing again.
@@XGCBlackheart Entire school district and athletic director got a 2-year ban.
Watch closely the catcher isn't throwing to third base or F5, this is NOT a play on a runner.
This is an attempt to draw a call.
Don't really need to watch "closely." It was glaringly obvious what the Catcher was doing in both instances. Severe sanctions are in order.
I'd actually go intent to injure.
Even on the first throw it was intentional. The 3rd baseman is six feet INSIDE the line…she is throwing in line with the base coach. But the, that is dangerous, no excuse for that STUFF.
She was coached up to do this. when the batter moves in the box.
The earlier one is borderline, but nothing called. The second one was intentional and should have resulted in the catcher/manager ejected. The umpire shrugging his shoulders in both situations with no warnings or ejections for the second instance is ludicrous.
I would actually contend that the batter did the catcher a favor on the 1st play IF there was actually a play on as it gave the catcher a clear throwing lane. If people are going to claim interference on the 1st play, then in all likelihood, the catcher's was going to end up in the stands or somewhere down the left field line. This is clearly MC/UC and I would have two ejections, F2 AND the HC.
@@deanb024 Agreed. You have to eject certainly after the second instance. The umpire shrugging his shoulders and doing nothing is only inviting the next batter to take a wild swing at the next pitch and catch the catcher in the head. Umpire needs to get control of this situation right away. Doing nothing is not the right answer.
@Ryan Lewis Softball umpires seem to turn a blind eye to dirty play by catchers. There's a video of a HS catcher throwing elbows and knocking over incoming runners when there isn't even a play at the plate.
This girl threw at a young ladies face from point blank range. I mean wth? She should be banned, she could have knocked out all her teeth, crushed her eye socket or even worse. If a coach taught that to F2 they should be fired
the earlier one she threw toward the dugout, that never even had a chance at third
Looks like a coached tactic. However, that's MC, and an EJ in the 6th inning.
Oh god... the first one is borderline.. I could see why the no call simply because even with the ball going to the fence.. the runner made no attempt to move and really, even a back pick only could have hurt the defense as the 3rd basemen was in front of the runner... .. the second one is malicious contact/unsportsmanlike... the second one would have had my game down a catcher and her manager.
I umped a lot of rec HS girls SB, most of the time the girls are taught to get out of the way of a potential throw & maybe steel home, however seeing as the catcher threw the ball out of play 2 basses awarded, yes there could be interference by the batter..... Iffy call there, to me looked kind of deliberate trying to get the interference call, not on my watch. The second : ABOSUTLY BOTH he catcher & manager are ejected & warnings issued to BOTH teams.
I would have ejected the catcher and coach after 2nd hit batter. No attempt from r2 After the first hit batter I would have called the coaches over and go over the procedure so it doesn’t happen again. Now if the teams look inexperienced I’ll even offer explaining to the catchers and let batters know there responsibilities as a batter,,,,,Game management is necessary here.
When you say "my game" do you mean a game in which you are an umpire?
@@damienbell3155 she did this to other opponents also
@@kelvinmorris1991 wow so you’ve witnessed this in more than 1 game? What state and city is this in ? There district UIC should be correcting this scenario with his umpires giving them direction on how to handle this.
As a 39 year veteran of umpiring high school softball, I would have ejected the catcher in the 6th inning for her in sporting actions. The coach may have followed depending on his/her actions.
Just plain wrong in both instances. C'mon, throwing to third the first time? Eject catcher, coach and get a new umpire. This ump has no knowledge of the game. Also, look at the throwing angle of the catch in both instances. If that catcher didn't hit the batter, the ball would be nowhere near third base. Peace
Then you are a horrible umpire. The catcher was just reacting to the runners on base. And the girl was in the batters box. You play small ball shit like this will happen.
@@RaJ-lw3im you made a great argument! She did it in several games and was just tossed from the league for intent, the school is on two years probation, and coach was dismissed from coaching softball. It's not supposed to be a loophole, but she had earned her team outs by plunking batters on purpose for obstruction calls.
While my gear and strike/ball counter has been put in the attic for a long time that catcher would have been GONE immediately on the 2nd "offense" and the coach would have followed with even a little objection. Horrible unsportsmanlike conduct and actions!
Thank you.
Throwing a ball into the back of a runner 60 feet away is one thing. Throwing at their face from 2 feet away is something else entirely. Especially when there is no play and it has already happened once that game. This is something that usually only happens a couple times a season if that (unless intentional)
That catcher is clearly trying to throw it in the face of the batter.
First one feels scummy, but there's the backpick element. I'd keep my eye on F2. Second one is no doubt Malicious Contact and Unsportswomanlike Conduct. F2 is ejected. I would write it up as a player safety issue as well as MC/UC.
This was actually in a Texas HS playoff game. The second time it happened the catch should've been ejected.
I was taught to throw through and get hung up with the batter. Both plays seemed excessive and intent to hurt someone.
I appreciate your detailed and thorough breakdown. This was clearly malicious. Unless she is the absolute worst catcher ever, she had no intent but to drill the batter on both attempts, not even close to looking like she's trying to throw it to third. She is either fucked in the head, or her coach is for inciting her to do this (which should definitely not be mislabeled as any sort of gamesmanship, just a pure bush league attempt to manipulate the rules). Either way there is no room in the game for it.
No it wasn't malicious. The batter is an idiot. The catcher is in the right.
On the first one of the batter wasn’t there it would have hit the left field fence. It wasn’t going to third. Clear intention to hit the batter
This is obviously coached into that catcher. Some coaches will try anything to win. Sportsmanship or not
She’s basically throwing it in the third base dugout. That’s intent and that becomes a safety issue and high school rules all revolve around safety
Looks like the hp umpire doesn’t know the rules or is totally overwhelmed with umpiring this game. Looks lazy to me!
Disgusting behavior. Sad that this person is out there. Hopefully, she gets help.
The crazy part is that the same catcher did this during a previous game before this one. So it's clear that it's Intentional
Or they are a REALLY bad catcher, but I'm going to go with it being intentional.
Neither of the balls thrown by the softball player were going anywhere need a fielder
It’s pretty clear after the first one when the coach immediately argues for the batter to be called out for being hit, he knew she was going to hit her, because he thought her too.
UIL put the school district and the athletic director/coach on two years of probation.
The coach/athletic director admitted that the same catcher had done the same thing in four other games and they had benefitted from five interference calls.
He also admitted that he believed that the catcher hit the batters on purpose though he claimed that what he saw in the video is not how he remembered events during the game.
Great explanation on what could be called here. I never thought about this being a potential malicious contact play because I think of malicious contact involving physical contact in some manner between two plays i.e. collision or excessively hard tag.
With the benefit of replay, I'd eject on both of these instances. In real time, I'd likely miss the first one, but the second time she'd be gone.
Thanks for sharing. The NFHS rule may have good intentions, the normal process of the batter to reset can't be ignored. If the batter takes an exaggerated drop step(s) then maybe you've got interference. Sounds like the way the rule is written NFHS wants to remove umpire judgement from these situations.
I agree with Lindsay that this has all the markings of the catcher "trying" to get an interference call. I would be comfortable tossing both F2 and the HC.
Looks to me like batters player safety is of no concern to the defense.
The NFHS rule isnt really different from the professional rules on this particular kind of interference: its also true in MLB that the batter is protected from interfering only as long as they stay in the box, and that its consequently necessary for batters to recognize when the catcher is going to attempt a play and not step out of the box as they risk interference if that happens.
@@mikejunt The batters box is not a sanctuary per the rules. Well coached batters stand still and that is how they get protection. If a batter moves up or back in the box they can be called for interference. The catcher has no way to know which way they will go.
(not the case in this video).
Definitely on purpose by the catcher, thus causing an immediate ejection due to her poor sportsmanship, if I was the ump.
This is something that you see maybe once in you baseball lifetime. Not a batter being hit by a thrown ball from the catcher, but a batter being hit on the front side from a catcher. To see it twice in the same game and with there being absolutely no play at 3rd during the second one, it is clearly malicious contact and the catcher should have been suspended
I was a catcher for 4 years, high school and travel. Not once have I came close to hitting a batter nor have I ever seen any other catcher do something like this. This is just disgusting
First is borderline. Deserves a comment to batter, catcher and coaches to be mindful of all players safety. Second time is malicious contact with an ejection of catcher and coach. You can see after the first throw that she asks umpire for a call. This was coached. Knowing Texas UIL, I would not be surprised is catcher and coach receive suspensions. This has been found in earlier games by same player and coach. Clearly this coach is teaching these acts and deserves to lose his teaching certification (or at minimum not coach again).
Entire district and the sporting director got two year bans, so you weren't wrong.
We were taught to step out of the box after every pitch. So that rules is very confusing. They are just supposed to stay in the box the whole time so it isn't considered interference? She didn't even attempt to go around or anything. It was too casual as she got up and threw straight at her face.
You should stay in the box if the catcher is attempting a play to a base, and step out only after the activity at home plate is over.
You see this a lot in the pros, the rules are the same there: MLB hitters know to stay in the box when they see their guys attempting steals, because incidental contact with the batter on a throw isn't interference as long as they stay in the box, where they're entitled to be. This is even true if the contact is with your bat, like if you swung at the pitch or checked your swing.
Stepping out is a good idea, but you shouldn't do it if you see your own player in motion until the ball has left the plate area.
Dump the catcher for malicious contact. Get control of the game, someone is going to get hurt.
You can tell the parents we’re ready to complain if the ump didn’t call it, which means they have been doing it all season. Catcher was asking for the call too.
Coach and catcher suspended for the remainder of the year. The second one is NOT a softball play.
Catcher suspended for life subject to appeal.
Used to umpirea high school in Los Angeles where they taught the catcher to step into the batter on attempted steals at second. Problem is, we all knew about it. So I have since wondered if they actually LOST OUT on actual Interference calls because of their reputation.
As long as the batter was staying in the box they were safe at least
I saw this a couple days ago - Like you, I thought possible interference on the 1st instance with R3, even though the throw would have had to be the worst throw to actually try and throw to 3rd (didn't even look like a real attempt to throw to 3B), the angle was all wrong, but at least there was someone on 3rd to try and throw out. The 2nd time she does it, there isn't even a play at 3rd. Now, I umpire softball and baseball. With softball, sometimes a catcher will throw down to 3rd if R2 takes a big "half-way to third" type lead instead of running her back (need to remember look-back rule in softball, very different play mechanic than baseball). Here though, the 3B is playing WAY in, so that couldn't be the issue either. Here I think the catcher is malicious/unsportsmanlike and I would have ejected the catcher; what she did was extremely dangerous, throw at the head/face of a player on purpose.
As someone unfamiliar with softball nuances, I appreciate this further insight. Thank you
I agree with you 100% except the ejection should be for life.
@@sonnybowman Thats a league decision, not the umpire's decision
Hitting someone in the dick should be an automatic ejection. Also, stepping BACKWARD out of the box shouldn't possibly be called interference, or at least should be a subjective decision by the umpires (to be on the safe side) because unless there's something really funky going on with infielder positioning, plunking a batter in the head who has gone a step or two back would mean the ball was thrown in a vector out into the dugout.
At that softball game/level it might be a good idea to conference with the coach after that first hit in the head and say "While I understand the rules situation that might merit such a throw that you have coached the player on, if your player chucks it into someone's head that's dangerous and if it happens again I''ll eject her and you" under the 'General Article' of the Umpire having the authority to disqualify any player for unsporting conduct.
Not necessarily. Catchers are taught to drop step and give themselves a throwing lane to third (not what this catcher did). That doesn’t mean a throwing vector to the dugout. But having a batter step back out of the box is interference for that very reason. In actual competitive play (not trying to just get a bogus judgement from an umpire) the catcher doesn’t have time to decide which way the batter is going to move before throwing. The batter should be stationary and the catcher work around them. If the batter moves into the throw/out of the box, it’s clear interference. There also should be a legitimate play at third, which wasn’t the case in either of these throws.
The video that I saw on Twitter had the bases-loaded situation second, so I thought that one happened afterward.
After the second one (with the runner on second base), the catcher is gone and anyone who says a word about it is gone. If the coach argues it I'm going into full-blown Bob Davidson mode. :)
Second one, coach should be gone anyway.
This girl should have been ejected and suspended. This is clearly uncalled for and very unsportsmanlike, clearly falls on the coach and maybe even the parents for allowing this kind of behavior in a game.
next pitch, batter takes a few steps back, wacks catcher in the head while swinging, catcher interference.
Neither of those throws actually look as if they catcher is aiming for third base, even the first one looked strangely wild, if not deliberate and the second was absolutely malicious/intentional..
I would have ejected. Also, I'm curious as to whether or not the ball went out of play. I'd love to award R2 home.
If I were the parents of the hit players I would honestly pursue charges against the catcher. It's seems the intent here was to harm the other player and wasn't close to being a normal softball action. Then sue the coach(for not stepping in and correcting the catcher) and league(because of the inaction of the ump) then finally the school district for failing to provide a safe environment for players and not stopping the harm being caused right away.
First one was more than likely enough to warrant the interference call. It had the elements needed. However the second one also had the elements for malicious contact and ejection of catcher and coach.
Benches should have cleared on that. She could seriously injury somebody.
It looked like it was a possibility.
Seems to be a lot of problems with Texas catchers. Wasn't it in Texas where the catcher elbowed two runners coming home a couple of years ago?
Yes! That was in Austin at the State tournament.
I don't see how this is even a question on whether this was intentional or not. Nothing makes sense at all. I was a catcher for 4 years travel and high school and I've never came close to hitting a batter. First of all the batter is bunting so third is automatically charging and short stop wasn't even close to covering third so who is the catcher trying to throw to?On top of that the runner on second was leading off but obviously not committing to stealing. When a catcher pops up and throws that fast its normally when you have a good fast base runner on 3rd that's taking a big lead off and trying for a pickle. Another thing, she didn't even check if the batter was okay. She immediately retrieved the ball and got it back to the pitcher showing no concern whatsoever. I've accidentally hurt other players before and the very first thing I do is ask if they're okay and apologize. If that girl was bunting it's safe to say that she's probably a fast and good base runner and injuring her/or trying to claim she "interfered" both reasons to keep her off base.
Looks to me like the coach has spent time telling the catcher that if you just drill the batter you might get an interference call. However the catcher doesn’t quite understand that the play at least has to appear like you are trying to throw out a runner at third. And the batter really needs to be fully out of the box. The first play here is marginal. I don’t think in the first play the catcher was actually trying to throw out the runner at third. I think she was trying to hit the batter. The second play is an ejection for malicious contact. Easy. And a good talking to for the head coach and a report to the league about how this coach is coaching his or her players. That’s not how we want to play softball.
She clearly has some issues. Get her off the field before someone gets clearly hurt. She knows exactly what she is doing.
She has the intention to do 1 or both of the following things...
1. Hurt the batter
2. get a cheap out call
Shame on you. Ejection/suspension/banned from playing are most certainly in order.
There was no play at 3rd on either play. 3rd baseman was playing off the bag on both plays seemingly ready to charge for a bunt or a weak ground ball and was NOT is any position to make a play in either instance.
Man, you'd have to pull me off that catcher if I was the batter.
Ejection without question.
Agree that for the ump, its likely nothing the first time, but an ejection of the catcher and the coach the second time, given the situation.
As for beyond the game, this catcher should be off the team and depending on the investigation, perhaps expelled from the school. Coach fired and possibly sued by the parents of the batter.
Id love to see a heavy backswing on the catchers head, but this isnt war, its just girls HS softball and there is no place for retribution there.
the league should go after the coach
Yes, the first play can prove something. The catcher was not throwing the ball to the third baseman and can easily be seen that she intended to throw the ball at the batter's head. As for the second batter hit, I suspect there is more to this story.
The body language of the catcher says it all. If it was indeed an accident, most players would show some sort of "oh crap" emotion. In both occurrences, the the catcher makes no gestures of concern to the batter. Either a total jerk catcher or a total jerk coach - or both!
0:07 OOF! Absolutely DRILLED! Point blank.
2:10 GOD DAMN!
Absolutely eject the second time. Agree the first is a borderline and not provable thing.
The first looks blatant in light of the second one, but the umpire could have never known that at the time.
@@austin.draude I agree. As an Ump and Ref, I have to look at pattern of behavior. Better believe I would stick that player in my memory bank though for futured incidents.
Hey I got an idea for an interference call, let's throw at the batters face. Genius.😅
eject the catcher; eject the coach. consider banishment from the leauge.
It's the batters box. The batter does not have to leave the box to accommodate the catchers throw. The catcher has to change position, not the batter.
Either the catcher is incompetent or doing this intentionally. Either way she needs to be out of the game or get her ass whipped.
I think the case could be made that what looked like an aggressive lead off (after the pitch, so it looks like faking to steal simce I think in softball you can't lead off before the pitch is thrown) it seemed to the catcher to look like stealing. But if it really is getting this bad (I don't really watch softball so I don't know of any game play trends) it could be in both baseball and softball to be akin to flopping in basketball. Forcing a mistake by the other team that they didn't commit, and have the offensive team penalized since the defense tricked the official.
I just say thank heavens I played softball in the 80's and this type of play was NEVER thought. My daughter played softball in the 90's and 2000's and this play was not in the books. We must be getting more vicious
Catcher's gotta go for that one in the sixth inning. Deliberate. That, in my honest opinion, is so blatant, that could be a forfeiture offense.
There wasn't a play at third the first time either, the runner was clearly slowing before the catcher threw the ball.
You can also see her adjust her aim with each throw. Her head begins to look one way, she turns her head slightly to target the batter and lets loose.
Even the trajectory of both throws is way off, especially the second one.
All I know is that if someone does that intentionally to me and I have a bat. Things are going to become uncomfortable for that catcher.
Ejection for the 2nd one when no defensive play was warranted
It’s ridiculous. The catcher should have been ejected, and I am a former fastpitch softball catcher.
Coach has been suspended and team was put on probation for 2 years.
Partial clarification - the batter interference rule also states the batter cannot interfere, even if staying in the box. In the first case, call an out. In the second case, eject the catcher.
I think Lindsey makes a rare misstatement of a rule, when she says at 1:13, "If the batter stays in the box, you have nothing, but if the batter steps out of the box on a pickoff, by rule, that's interference." That's not really right. The latter half of that statement is right: Stepping out of the box and hindering the throw is interference by rule, but the batter can ALSO interfere without leaving the box. The rule defines interference as "...stepping out of the batter's box [OR] making any movement which hinders action at home after the pitch reaches the catcher..." A batter obviously can't vanish into thin air, but they can be expected to stay still during a play, which is what the rule requires. As with all interference calls, intention is not relevant - though of course it is in a ruling on malicious contact. One other side note: If one draws a line from the catcher to the batter in the video, it appears clear that third base is nowhere near collinear with those two players. If not for the batter, the catcher's throw would sail over the third-base dugout. At least from the angle shown, it's really not credible that F2 was attempting a throw to third, which should definitely figure into any ejection.
First one, ok. I can see a no-call there. Second one, catcher and manager are gone. There was no play. There was no chance at a play even if the runner were going. There is now a pattern and you have to shut it down before there's an attempt at retaliation.
I can see the first time is interference but the 2nd time is malicious contact and the catcher should have been tossed from the game!
I've dealt with some kids growing up playing sports that were POS scumbags. People that will cheat and do things violent just to win. I hope I'm never in a situation where one of my children gets hurt by someone like this because the anger I am feeling is a whole different thing. The catcher should be brought up on assault charges and the coach should be fired and never be allowed to coach
The second time, I'd eject the catcher and I'd eject the head coach for "intentionally throwing at the batter".
But it's also coached to just stand there by coaches and sending a runner. Everyone forgets the second part of that rule which means you can remain in the box but you must make an attention not to interfer.
So, was any punishment/consequence ever handed down on this?
Great explanation. Thanks!
She threw the ball at the girls face. This should be assault and she did it twice no excuse at all
Its stuff like this that is the reason why I will never ref kids sports again. Coaches that teach their players to game the officials rather than focusing on playing the game always pissed me off. This is really bad because you can injure someone. Ejecting the catcher and coach on the second play would have been an obvious call and I would warn that team they are on thin ice the rest of the game. 99.99999% of these kids are not going pro or even playing D1. Winning doesn't matter. Just teach them fundamentals and how to be a decent teammate and competitor.
Ejection of the catcher and the coach
In the first case the catcher almost threw the ball into the dug out. Maybe you can make the case that the ball slipped when she saw where the batter is but that is a stretch. At a minimum a warning should have been given.
One the second one with no steal and no one covering the base it is a real stretch to say that was not intentional. Immediate ejection for malicious contact.
If that was my kid that got drilled in the head for no f-ing reason, I am gonna be pretty heated with that catcher. Unbelievable
First instance, warning that the batter is allowed to remain in the box and the throw should be to the fielder.
Second onstance, ejection as no genuine throw attempt made, just malicious contact
That's assault and she should be legally charged accordingly.
I'll say this much, too. If that's a men's baseball game, benches are clearing.
So if an ejection occurs, it will be the batter because of willful interference--or would you eject the coach too since it was premeditated?
Turns out the answer was everyone from the Athletic Director down gets a 2-year hit.
I don't agree with those who say the first one was interference. The catcher was not throwing to 3rd on either one, and that should matter. I don't know if an ump has the discretion to consider a catcher's intent in these instances? If not, they should.
Kind of wish the offensive players were more heads up about this. Running to first, just get in the lane. Yes, it's a few more inches to run, but if they try to hit you with the ball, they're giving you a base. For the "throws to third", take a few quick hop steps backward toward the dugout. If they still hit you when you're that far out of the path to potentially throw a runner out, it's going to be obvious and lead to an ejection. Draw the call, as it were.
Incorrect on the throw to third, but nice try. They need to stay in the box.
@@CommonSense823 Are we watching the same video? They're clearly not being coached to stay in the box despite the catchers being coached to hit them. If they're going to leave the box, do it with some pace.
What I’m telling you is 1)the rule says they need to be in the box to not be called for interference, and 2) the catcher should be taking a drop step back behind the box to get a clear throwing lane to third. Coaching your players to step back out of the box (no matter the pace) will get them hurt and they’ll be out. Not smart.
@@CommonSense823 And I'm telling you to look at what they ARE doing. If they're stepping out of the box anyway, which, again, since you seem to need it repeated, THEY ARE ALREADY DOING THIS, they need to step back quicker and draw the unsportsmanlike call.
Should they stay in the box? Yes. Are they? No, so they need to do it better.
@@Desirsar or…. You could coach them to follow the rules for their own safety. You are either coaching it or letting it happen. In either case, it’s wrong.
Softball umpire here. This looks like nothing but an attempt to buy an INT call whenever a batter steps away from the plate area by an unethical catcher and coach. The first one is plausible, and the batter is stepping from the box when hit. It's very nearly INT, if F2 had been making a legitimate back pick to F5. However, a throw like that is going to "smell funny" and it's going to be higher on my radar for the rest of the game. I eject F2 in the sixth inning, and the head coach is probably going to follow if he defends her actions during the follow-up conversation to replace her in the lineup. I write up the whole thing plus my suspicions to the State Office and wash my hands of it.
Unfortunately, due to the umpire shortage and subsequent decrease in available quality of officials, in this clip the PU looks overmatched and not confident in his ability to properly officiate this situation.
With regards to the first play, I would personally not have called interference. I understand if you would have called it. The second play, definitely MC and ejection of the catcher and head coach. It's tough to see as a PU (maybe too close to judge intent IMO), but BU should eject. This reminds me of the softball game where the plate umpire got drilled in the mask and the BU tossed F1, F2, and HC followed by a forfeit.
im ejecting personally on first one its pretty clear
when you look at third base for a total of 3 seconds and hold the ball in the air paused! Knowing the fact that no one is stealing third! and she still hits them with the ball. The 2nd baseman was already heading to second base when that girl threw the ball at her face. The catcher should be banned from softball and contact sports permanently.
For the coaches in the comments, here’s an idea! Instead of trying to exploit a rule maybe practice fundamentals more.
This is beyond unsportsmanlike. It’s MC in my opinion. Blue could even argue it on the earlier inning one. From the replay the catcher appears to wait for the batter to step out to throw at her. One could argue that exploiting this rule, or attempting to, is malicious contact. They intended to hit the batter and they did. Certainly it’s hard to make that call live. But on the later one where no possible play, ejections and in this case calls to the AD.
Some are reporting this team did this in the previous game last week.
It's hard to tell from the video but it seems malicious if the ball is thrown in the direction of the batter as opposed to the direction of the 3rd bass/fielder (who stepped further into the field of play to catch the expected throw). The batter probably thought they were getting out of the way but the rules make that difficult. I assume it can still be called interference if the catcher has to change their throw (eg. over head) to avoid hitting the batter if the other requirements are met. Surely you could lessen the blow if you know it's going to hit the batter. There's about 10 variations/situations to describe how this rule applies.
If I were coach of the team that was batting, I would be into the opposing coach in an instant after the second throw. That girl could have been seriously injured! And the play in the pro baseball game…as the batter, it would ON!!! That little jerk gets put down. That is not baseball.
In the earlier inning, her throw went to the dug out. This was the fourth team of the year the girl did this to, Umpire did not do his job. This Cisco, the offensive team, is ten miles from me. Mccamy is a good town, but the coach needs to be fired.
The team that the batter who was intentionally struck, needs to do a vigilante justice and teach that piece of 💩 catcher not to intentionally try to hurt people. The more she gets away with that BS, the more she'll think she can get away with it. So, team of the batter, go bust that girl up and protect your teammate!!!!
As it turns out she did not further get away with it, and she was kicked out of the league entirely, as was her coach, and the entire team and school were placed on 2 years probation.
Which is the right way to do it, not physical vigilante justice that might get someone else injured.
My question is why weren't the police called? This is assault with a weapon. Softball. Rock. No difference. Throwing intentionally at the face of someone with the power she threw could have badly injured the batter.
That is disgraceful. It is obviously an intended play and hurting the batter is not a concern, The catcher needs to exit the game and the sport, now!
If you were a college scout, would you want a catcher who plays like this? If it’s coaching, I wonder what an athlete director thinks?
Turns out what the athletic director thinks is "Damn, now I just got booted for two years because of this"
Even if they were trying to pull the interference call, there is no need to throw at the head. If I were the opposing coach, I would have sent a batter up to stand back in the box and take a wide back swing.
I'm sorry if I'm in the battery's box and then it. Can't your hits me squarely with a ball we scrap in right now
I don't advocate parents interfering with games, but if that was my daughter at bat in the second one, I would have been on that field. That is an extremely dangerous play. Luckily it hit the bill of her helmet, but it could very well have hit here square in the face. I would have lost it. No one does that to my daughter.