All this looks very intimidating complex confusing & probably Not forgiving to errors & mistakes....Thx much for posting this great RR signals info....
This is the stuff that is going to worry me when I start training. I am thankful that you are showing this. I start June 6th an I’ll be out of Harrisburg
It gets really easy once you make up your own way to remember the signals. One day it all clicks and I’ll say is probably the most intimidating part of the job.
This actually helped me to study and understand these signals and CSX. I’m qualifying out of Toledo for Amtrak and this was a big help for me so thank you for this video. Coming from Colorado and qualified on GCOR and BN and UP, it was a bit intimidating learning another type of signal system. This video was very informative.
i failed signals (originally hired out of binghamton), reapplied to harrisburg in hopes of asking to transfer to binghamton , still havent heard anything about that but my instructor who originally was out of conway broke it down almost the same way today
Is there any place on the web where I can find a nice hi-res image of this particular aspect sheet? It is by far the newest I have seen. I have been researching "Conrail" signals for several months.
0:56 Not only too much money, but the process of retraining all the train crews to acclimate and gain experience on the new signals would have been horrendous!
I think it's highly misleading. First off is they don't have to rip them out at once, they can just slowly replace them when the bulbs die. Instead of replacing the bulb, replace the entire signal if they're of the design to be removed. And it's not like the railroad is starved for cash. Norfolk Southern alone makes around $8.6 billion in profit annual. For reference, Denmark converted their entire country's rail signal systems for only $3.2 billion. That could be spread over the course of 10 years if they wanted to easily cover a large quadrant of the country. Now of course NS's total coverage is about 12 times that of all Denmark, but they don't even have to replace all the lights, they just have to remove the less common or more confusing signals. That means instead of having 6 methods of having a restricting, bring it down to one or two. There shouldn't be any confusion with just removing signals from circulation vs making a whole new system. But even if they did replace every single light, the profits made could easily pay it all off in only 10 years assuming less than half of current profit goes into this project. That means in reality they could truncate the entire system with possible 1-3 years profits. That's incredibly realistic. The thing is that the railroad is cheap, even if it makes employing people easier, and firing less people from confusion, it's still cheaper to use people as fodder than actually fix the system.
@@Skylancer727 Unfortunately, that isn't how altering signal systems can work. I cannot be done slowly and methodically over a long period of time. If an entirely new signal system is to be installed, it's installed alongside the existing system, tested in place, and a date is chosen to cut-over to the new system. Change is hard, so one big change is going to be easier for experienced crews to accept versus many, many small changes over time.
@jovetj I don't think you understood what I meant. We don't need a new system, we just need to truncate the existing one. A simple one is remove pup signals. They literally just add confusion and are one of the highest causes of starts due to their own unique meanings. Removing it and replacing just those immediately makes the system slightly less complicated. Or what about the fact both position and color signals cover every type of move. Why not just take out half of those to make the system instantly less confusing? Again, since it's only a removal of signals and not a whole new system, there shouldn't be any added confusion, it should only be more intuitive. And since we didn't completely shift the system there shouldn't be any issue with only doing this over the course of a decade. Let me be clear, I'm not suggesting unify the entire US railroads, just simplifying it in the existing systems why they're sporadic.
@@jovetj They're like color signals but only usually have one color, sometimes 2, but are distinct with the fact they're either like leg high or less than shoulder height. It's in Conrail's system.
Where do I get one of those signal aspect cards? Ill be starting training in Georgia soon for Norfolk Southern and I want to get a head start on signals as I predict those to be the hardest thing for me to remember.
The resemblance is cursory. They're called that not just because of the superficial resemblance, but because they're "mass murdering" the storied and unique signals that have existed for decades. "Darth Vader signal" is a pejorative term. It's also a term I don't think is fair... the railroads have to evolve and innovate and new technology is how they survive.
They’re all very similar. Amtrak has a few special signals that aren’t on NS such as a flashing high green for Amtrak is “cab speed” meaning you are to adjust and run your speed as to what cab signal is currently displayed. A flashing green on NS conrail territory is a “limited Clear”. Amtrak also on their position lights on the corridor have a “stop and proceed” which will be a red with a lunar light below it lit.
@@absoluteblockproduction2039 if you're interested in a little history, the Stop and Proceed rule dates all the way back to the Pennsylvania Railroad days. In those days if a train came upon a stop signal with a number plate on the mast, the train would have to stop and contact the dispatcher for permission to advance at restricted speed to the next signal. Furthermore, if there was a G sign under the number plate trains could proceed at restricted speed without contacting the dispatcher. The G meant that the train was going up a heavy grade. The NS did away with this rule sometime in the 90's or 2000's and made it all restricted speed.
Nice! I recognized some of the positional ones based on the old PRR system. But I've always wondered about the ones where, "proceed through switches, turnouts, etc... then resume maximum speed." My question is, how do you know when you've made it past the last switch/ turnout? Just have to 'know' that particular stretch? I mean, you think you've passed the last switch and hit the throttle, then OOPS!! Here's one more??
Most likely the engineer would set the counter that has the train length entered. When the train clears the turnout you get a beep sound and can resume speed again.
Andrew Koser your not permanently stuck anywhere really. You can make moves based on your qualification. They’re called 30 day moves. If you hold a position, you’ll hold it for 30 days until the next round of bid vacancies come out, or if your bumped by a senior man and displaced. If your bumped you have 48 hrs to find an assignment and place yourself. Typically I’ve held an assignment for a week or two then was bumped and would go out on the road list for a few trips then get bumped again and head back on to a yard job.
Big Sam The Evangelist app depends how you take it. It’s a job and pays very well, if you can deal with some of the b.s and weird hours..it’s totally worth it. I suggest to everyone just to go for it and make their own opinions on how it is. Notice everyone who’s complaining..still works here.
Big Sam The Evangelist the layoffs have primarily been in the maintenance side, I can’t speak for the entire company as other divisions have furloughed conductors however in PA we are busy, and I seen they now put up job openings across the system for conductors.
Hey Anthony, I asked some questions on another video, but Big Sam's question is a decent one. I had my live video conference interview with Jerome Rhymes and Roy Rother today 9/11/2020 (Roy's out of Moberly, MO, where I think they are considering me for). I am feeling confident about being hired, but I am falling victim to reading soo many negative reviews and comments. I know that there are many negative people and some disgruntled and some just are asshats, so I am trying to take them all with a grain of salt. BUT ONE THEME keeps coming up: It seems soo many Conductors are working under CONSTANT fear and worry about being fired (not laid off or furloughed, but fired). They speak about their supervisors 'spying' on them from behind the weeds, and they speak about how they are in constant and instant fear even if they see a SUV or Truck that might even resemble their supervisor's. These commenters speak continually of how the supervisors are just hawking over the conductors and almost giddy to fire them...as if these yardmasters and other supervisors have quotas to fire X number of people per week. One guy who seems very reputable here on youtube talks about this fear is constant and he says that supervisors continually fire conductors so that it looks like they are doing work. Is any of this true??? IF one is professional, smart, competent, safety conscious and does a good job, do they really work 12 hours days under this constant fear? IF a conductor makes one simple mistake, are 'they' telling me they'll get fired instead of the supervisor correcting the issue? Are 'they' telling me that Corporate is totally OK with spending thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours to train a conductor only to turn them out in front of a firing squad whereby these supervisors are giddy and get hard-ons to run around and fire people willy nilly? Does Corporate truly endorse this? That waste is enormous, and how can one truly work and live with such treats and stress and anxiety? That almost encourages mistakes and unintended mishaps as everybody has a stranglehold on themselves and deathly worried that if they have a hand or foot out of position someone's gonna jump out of the bushes and fire them. Are all these people saying this exaggerating? I'm not talking about being late; I'm not talking about being stupid and careless and being an idiot and violating rules and proceedures. I'm asking about your everyday, good, solid, mature, professional conductor who is new, prompt, trying hard, conscientious, etc... DO THEY TRULY HAVE TO WORK UNDER SUCH WORRY, FEAR, STRESS AND ANXIETY? Thank you very much...
I'm on the list to go to conductor school in GA for NS for Oct. And this seem pretty damn confusing to me! Should I be worried, or do they really try and help you out?
Vaugn yes a good bit where I am at. We qualify the keystone corridor for 60 miles out of Lancaster which we really only touch about half of it. Also we qualify for the northeast corridor for our runs from enola down to Baltimore and Delaware. Whole other book of rules and territory to qualify on.
If you are being given a clear to the next interlocking, there will be a special light on the mast that has a C under it lit. This is mostly used in the event the lead locomotive has a cab signal failure out on the main.
Red below, let it go; red above, respect and love!
All this looks very intimidating complex confusing & probably Not forgiving to errors & mistakes....Thx much for posting this great RR signals info....
This is the stuff that is going to worry me when I start training. I am thankful that you are showing this. I start June 6th an I’ll be out of Harrisburg
It gets really easy once you make up your own way to remember the signals. One day it all clicks and I’ll say is probably the most intimidating part of the job.
This actually helped me to study and understand these signals and CSX. I’m qualifying out of Toledo for Amtrak and this was a big help for me so thank you for this video. Coming from Colorado and qualified on GCOR and BN and UP, it was a bit intimidating learning another type of signal system. This video was very informative.
great info. thanks for sharing!
i failed signals (originally hired out of binghamton), reapplied to harrisburg in hopes of asking to transfer to binghamton , still havent heard anything about that but my instructor who originally was out of conway broke it down almost the same way today
Cool! What do see in the cab? on the PTC display?
What is the difference between HB Conductor and just Conductor? I have seen both positions posted.
Is there any place on the web where I can find a nice hi-res image of this particular aspect sheet?
It is by far the newest I have seen. I have been researching "Conrail" signals for several months.
A lot of information
12:27 *signal aspects. (You _correctly_ defined it earlier, so gonna call you out on it here! 😉 )
0:56 Not only too much money, but the process of retraining all the train crews to acclimate and gain experience on the new signals would have been horrendous!
I think it's highly misleading. First off is they don't have to rip them out at once, they can just slowly replace them when the bulbs die. Instead of replacing the bulb, replace the entire signal if they're of the design to be removed. And it's not like the railroad is starved for cash. Norfolk Southern alone makes around $8.6 billion in profit annual. For reference, Denmark converted their entire country's rail signal systems for only $3.2 billion. That could be spread over the course of 10 years if they wanted to easily cover a large quadrant of the country.
Now of course NS's total coverage is about 12 times that of all Denmark, but they don't even have to replace all the lights, they just have to remove the less common or more confusing signals. That means instead of having 6 methods of having a restricting, bring it down to one or two. There shouldn't be any confusion with just removing signals from circulation vs making a whole new system.
But even if they did replace every single light, the profits made could easily pay it all off in only 10 years assuming less than half of current profit goes into this project. That means in reality they could truncate the entire system with possible 1-3 years profits. That's incredibly realistic. The thing is that the railroad is cheap, even if it makes employing people easier, and firing less people from confusion, it's still cheaper to use people as fodder than actually fix the system.
@@Skylancer727 Unfortunately, that isn't how altering signal systems can work. I cannot be done slowly and methodically over a long period of time. If an entirely new signal system is to be installed, it's installed alongside the existing system, tested in place, and a date is chosen to cut-over to the new system. Change is hard, so one big change is going to be easier for experienced crews to accept versus many, many small changes over time.
@jovetj I don't think you understood what I meant. We don't need a new system, we just need to truncate the existing one. A simple one is remove pup signals. They literally just add confusion and are one of the highest causes of starts due to their own unique meanings. Removing it and replacing just those immediately makes the system slightly less complicated.
Or what about the fact both position and color signals cover every type of move. Why not just take out half of those to make the system instantly less confusing? Again, since it's only a removal of signals and not a whole new system, there shouldn't be any added confusion, it should only be more intuitive. And since we didn't completely shift the system there shouldn't be any issue with only doing this over the course of a decade.
Let me be clear, I'm not suggesting unify the entire US railroads, just simplifying it in the existing systems why they're sporadic.
@@Skylancer727 Pup signals?
@@jovetj They're like color signals but only usually have one color, sometimes 2, but are distinct with the fact they're either like leg high or less than shoulder height.
It's in Conrail's system.
Where do I get one of those signal aspect cards? Ill be starting training in Georgia soon for Norfolk Southern
and I want to get a head start on signals as I predict those to be the hardest thing for me to remember.
You can find NS rulebooks online.
Harrisburg IL?
Great job!
I still don't understand why each rail has different signals. Why not all the same.
These signals are called “Darth Vader signals”
Why they are nicknamed that: the signal heads are supposed to resemble Darth Vader’s helmet
The resemblance is cursory. They're called that not just because of the superficial resemblance, but because they're "mass murdering" the storied and unique signals that have existed for decades. "Darth Vader signal" is a pejorative term. It's also a term I don't think is fair... the railroads have to evolve and innovate and new technology is how they survive.
Does Amtrak conductors follow these same aspects?
They’re all very similar. Amtrak has a few special signals that aren’t on NS such as a flashing high green for Amtrak is “cab speed” meaning you are to adjust and run your speed as to what cab signal is currently displayed. A flashing green on NS conrail territory is a “limited Clear”. Amtrak also on their position lights on the corridor have a “stop and proceed” which will be a red with a lunar light below it lit.
@@absoluteblockproduction2039 if you're interested in a little history, the Stop and Proceed rule dates all the way back to the Pennsylvania Railroad days. In those days if a train came upon a stop signal with a number plate on the mast, the train would have to stop and contact the dispatcher for permission to advance at restricted speed to the next signal. Furthermore, if there was a G sign under the number plate trains could proceed at restricted speed without contacting the dispatcher. The G meant that the train was going up a heavy grade. The NS did away with this rule sometime in the 90's or 2000's and made it all restricted speed.
@@jm0lesky Originally, the PRR Grade rule only applied to trains over a certain tonnage.
@@jovetj That makes sense
@@jovetj That makes sense
Nice! I recognized some of the positional ones based on the old PRR system. But I've always wondered about the ones where, "proceed through switches, turnouts, etc... then resume maximum speed." My question is, how do you know when you've made it past the last switch/ turnout? Just have to 'know' that particular stretch? I mean, you think you've passed the last switch and hit the throttle, then OOPS!! Here's one more??
Most likely the engineer would set the counter that has the train length entered. When the train clears the turnout you get a beep sound and can resume speed again.
@@chlomyster8526 Thanks. I've learned since that locomotives have that 'counter'. Back in the old days I suppose it was more 'skill / experience'.
@@mikefochtman7164 Back in the old days the conductor in the caboose could signal the engineer when it was time.
Do you primarily work out of the yard or do you get to go out on trips? I am applying to the Harrisburg hub.
Andrew Koser your not permanently stuck anywhere really. You can make moves based on your qualification. They’re called 30 day moves. If you hold a position, you’ll hold it for 30 days until the next round of bid vacancies come out, or if your bumped by a senior man and displaced. If your bumped you have 48 hrs to find an assignment and place yourself. Typically I’ve held an assignment for a week or two then was bumped and would go out on the road list for a few trips then get bumped again and head back on to a yard job.
@@absoluteblockproduction2039 awesome. The variety of the job is what really appeals to me!
Hey bro is this job worth it? I keep seeing bad reviews on the NS job searches. How has it been?
Big Sam The Evangelist app depends how you take it. It’s a job and pays very well, if you can deal with some of the b.s and weird hours..it’s totally worth it. I suggest to everyone just to go for it and make their own opinions on how it is. Notice everyone who’s complaining..still works here.
@@absoluteblockproduction2039 i keep seeing stuff about employees always laid off or threatened with it. is that true?
Big Sam The Evangelist the layoffs have primarily been in the maintenance side, I can’t speak for the entire company as other divisions have furloughed conductors however in PA we are busy, and I seen they now put up job openings across the system for conductors.
Hey Anthony, I asked some questions on another video, but Big Sam's question is a decent one. I had my live video conference interview with Jerome Rhymes and Roy Rother today 9/11/2020 (Roy's out of Moberly, MO, where I think they are considering me for). I am feeling confident about being hired, but I am falling victim to reading soo many negative reviews and comments. I know that there are many negative people and some disgruntled and some just are asshats, so I am trying to take them all with a grain of salt. BUT ONE THEME keeps coming up: It seems soo many Conductors are working under CONSTANT fear and worry about being fired (not laid off or furloughed, but fired). They speak about their supervisors 'spying' on them from behind the weeds, and they speak about how they are in constant and instant fear even if they see a SUV or Truck that might even resemble their supervisor's. These commenters speak continually of how the supervisors are just hawking over the conductors and almost giddy to fire them...as if these yardmasters and other supervisors have quotas to fire X number of people per week. One guy who seems very reputable here on youtube talks about this fear is constant and he says that supervisors continually fire conductors so that it looks like they are doing work. Is any of this true??? IF one is professional, smart, competent, safety conscious and does a good job, do they really work 12 hours days under this constant fear? IF a conductor makes one simple mistake, are 'they' telling me they'll get fired instead of the supervisor correcting the issue? Are 'they' telling me that Corporate is totally OK with spending thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours to train a conductor only to turn them out in front of a firing squad whereby these supervisors are giddy and get hard-ons to run around and fire people willy nilly? Does Corporate truly endorse this? That waste is enormous, and how can one truly work and live with such treats and stress and anxiety? That almost encourages mistakes and unintended mishaps as everybody has a stranglehold on themselves and deathly worried that if they have a hand or foot out of position someone's gonna jump out of the bushes and fire them. Are all these people saying this exaggerating? I'm not talking about being late; I'm not talking about being stupid and careless and being an idiot and violating rules and proceedures. I'm asking about your everyday, good, solid, mature, professional conductor who is new, prompt, trying hard, conscientious, etc... DO THEY TRULY HAVE TO WORK UNDER SUCH WORRY, FEAR, STRESS AND ANXIETY? Thank you very much...
@@davidchadwick5423 I don't have any answers, but I liked the comment because what you say is spot on.
I'm on the list to go to conductor school in GA for NS for Oct. And this seem pretty damn confusing to me! Should I be worried, or do they really try and help you out?
I might be there with you bro
They help you. You can take the practice tests everyday and I suggest you do that. Once you understand how to read the signals, it’s a piece of cske
Did you have to do the hair test during the drug test and physical?
I’m here now and they review it all with you over and over
@@ohboy2592s the NS Dearborn Division Ex-conrail?
Do you guys run on amtrak out there?
Vaugn yes a good bit where I am at. We qualify the keystone corridor for 60 miles out of Lancaster which we really only touch about half of it. Also we qualify for the northeast corridor for our runs from enola down to Baltimore and Delaware. Whole other book of rules and territory to qualify on.
Oh dope, work for conrail so i get it. You guys been pounding.
Vaugn yeah it’s starting to pick back up..haven’t worked less then 10 hrs a shift all this week.
Damn same here. Well be safe and glad your a Railroader.
Vaugn thanks, be safe out there as well.
How do you know when the train has clear the block?
If you are being given a clear to the next interlocking, there will be a special light on the mast that has a C under it lit. This is mostly used in the event the lead locomotive has a cab signal failure out on the main.
@@absoluteblockproduction2039 is it the conductor who has to radio in to the dispatcher about the signal the ugh are passing through?
you guys are thinking into to this way to much
Great info, thank you. But you look so tired for a young man! Take care of you and yours.