Are House Of The Dragon & The HBO Shows The Legacy Of George R. R. Martin | Game Of Thrones Analysis

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  • Опубликовано: 25 дек 2024

Комментарии • 102

  • @WorldOfWesteros
    @WorldOfWesteros  2 месяца назад +19

    So the idea for this video really came from the amount of people I saw across social media who were confused as to why George chose the issue around House Of The Dragon to speak out against HBO, when he didn’t do the same with Game Of Thrones. While I thought the answer was fairly straightforward, he felt at least parlay reasonable with game of thrones, where he doesn’t with House Of The Dragon. It all lead to this wider idea of legacy and the impact the HBO shows will have on how ASOIAF is remembered. Finally I just want to add this, I was going to make a video about it but feel it’s not really appropriate and didn’t feel right. But it’s clear from the last few blog posts he’s made George really had a bad year, and has been going through a lot of personal issues that have effected him deeply with all this impacting his mental health. I know dunking on George has become a bit of a meme and a joke online, and I totally get its a way for fans vent there frustrations, but because of that it’s very easy to forget George R. R Martin is a real person and not a character, and I hope whatever he’s struggling and dealing with personally, he’s able to overcome and start to see things more positively. At the end of the day, I wouldn’t be sat here making videos, and we all wouldn’t be talking to each other about this world we all love without him.

    • @jeffcordova9633
      @jeffcordova9633 2 месяца назад +4

      You are 100% correct !!

    • @aegorbittersteel2154
      @aegorbittersteel2154 2 месяца назад +3

      I really love you pointing out that grrm is a person with a life and struggles. I love this universe probably too much and I really really want more asoiaf stuff, but he's just a man life gets in the way. There's is also the pressure of finishing the stories he puts so much love into in a great way.

    • @lawrencereid2767
      @lawrencereid2767 2 месяца назад +3

      @@WorldOfWesteros 🔥🏰🖤

  • @johnnycakes8673
    @johnnycakes8673 2 месяца назад +22

    At this point the best course is to use Reverse psychology. "OK George, dont finish it. You can't anyway and we don't want you to."

  • @ThePrestonMN
    @ThePrestonMN 2 месяца назад +8

    His legacy is a man who has a million ideas and no drive to finish them.
    I love the guy, but unless he finishes the books, his legacy will always be bittersweet at best.

    • @Lionstar16
      @Lionstar16 2 месяца назад

      His legacy is as The Author Who Wasted Thirteen Years

  • @bh3855
    @bh3855 2 месяца назад +29

    He was foolish enough to think they would be. But I'm glad season 2 woke him up. He either finishes his books or he won't have a legacy.

  • @havok6280
    @havok6280 2 месяца назад +87

    If he cares about his legacy, he should finish ASOIAF instead of blogging about shows.

    • @aegorbittersteel2154
      @aegorbittersteel2154 2 месяца назад +14

      I assume it's a lot harder to finish books with a massive world compared to just being honest about being disappointed with the direction your ideas are being taken and your struggles in life.

    • @Js-uz5sg
      @Js-uz5sg 2 месяца назад +9

      Show some respect when speaking about a living legend, especially considering your own achievements.

    • @havok6280
      @havok6280 2 месяца назад +14

      ​@@Js-uz5sgso only people with significant achievements can criticize others? Guess that leaves you out...

    • @havok6280
      @havok6280 2 месяца назад +11

      ​@@aegorbittersteel2154obviously writing is hard. That doesn't mean he shouldn't do it.
      No one took anything from him. He voluntarily sold the rights and he was well compensated.
      Moreover, he could have negotiated for creative control the way Robert Kirkman did with Invincible.

    • @aegorbittersteel2154
      @aegorbittersteel2154 2 месяца назад +4

      @havok6280 I'm not saying that he shouldn't do it.I'm saying finishing up fantasy stories with an incredibly detailed world several plots and characters is difficult and would take time if it's ever finished For all we know, he could not be working on it at all.Or he could be working on it for hours on end slaving away to try to make the perfect ending. I just think that's something we should all remember instead of just an echo chamber of Well if he's so worried about and why doesn't he just finish the books. Honestly, he's probably not working at peak efficiency or anywhere near it, but how many of us do?

  • @headshotyeet3670
    @headshotyeet3670 2 месяца назад +8

    Until George finishes his work on the pages, the HBO series will be his legacy. He either needs to be more heavily involved with the shows production or finish his books so the source material has more to draw from.

    • @nont18411
      @nont18411 2 месяца назад +1

      He’s like Tywin Lannister and Doran Martell.
      Doran in terms of making moves too slow that the opportunity was wasted.
      Tywin in terms of complaining about legacy all the time while choosing not to do the one thing that will actually secure it.

  • @jeffcordova9633
    @jeffcordova9633 2 месяца назад +18

    For the watch !!
    For the lord commander !!!
    Brother Bittersteel!!
    “Do you know what legacy is?
    It’s what’s remains of you after you are gone, it’s what you pass on to your children & your children’s children “
    Tywin Lannister..
    George’s inner Lion has came out as he got older

    • @aegorbittersteel2154
      @aegorbittersteel2154 2 месяца назад +2

      Good to see you as always. Hope you are doing Fantastic!!!! Wonderful use of that quote.

    • @lawrencereid2767
      @lawrencereid2767 2 месяца назад +3

      @@jeffcordova9633 my first ranger ....go get the whitewalkers .... then the ale lol

    • @jeffcordova9633
      @jeffcordova9633 2 месяца назад +2

      @@lawrencereid2767white walkers first ? THEN the Ale?
      Alright so ima go Find me Dragon From Ashaii & then head beyond the wall…
      😆😆😆

    • @jeffcordova9633
      @jeffcordova9633 2 месяца назад +2

      @@aegorbittersteel2154 my brother BITTERSTEEL!!! I hope you are doing good! I am well
      I’ve been wanting to type that line on one of these videos for for a long time …
      Now I just need to have an Heir & I can say it to them 🤘🏼🤘🏼

    • @lawrencereid2767
      @lawrencereid2767 2 месяца назад +1

      @@jeffcordova9633 yessss

  • @edeneini839
    @edeneini839 2 месяца назад +9

    He shoulda either kept a closer watch on the writing of season 2, or finished Winds of Winter.
    He ended up doing neither...

  • @haroldramson5988
    @haroldramson5988 2 месяца назад +10

    Oh George, you took the money!!!

  • @BatFlash52
    @BatFlash52 2 месяца назад +24

    I say this not because I dislike GRRM’s writing or his works, I Thoroughly enjoy the A Song of Ice and Fire novels, the HBO shows inspired by his work and the numerous RUclipsrs who have done countless videos dedicated to his work, but GRRM’s legacy is the 13 years. Yes there are external factors as to why we don’t have Winds, some of which is not Martin’s fault, writer’s block, working on the HBO shows, depression, grieving friend’s deaths, etc, all of which to me is very understandable. But as of now we do not have Winds of Winter and many people in the ASOIAF community believe we will never get it, maybe they are wrong maybe they are right, I can’t say. If we ever do get Winds, it could be GRRM’s magnum opus, it could be the greatest work of fiction ever created, it will sellout overnight but I guarantee something that a vast majority of people will say: ‘It wasn’t worth 13 years of waiting’.

    • @twiss9341
      @twiss9341 2 месяца назад +3

      Winds will be worth it. Dude is a genius how he writes. But it really is a shame how long it has taken. I feel bad for everyone involved. The situation is a little sad

    • @smokesalesmanbielsa7409
      @smokesalesmanbielsa7409 2 месяца назад +3

      With all due respect i strongly disagree. I believe if Winds were to be subpar then it must be really, and i mean REALLY bad for the fandom not to cope about it actually being an underrated masterpiece or something along those lines

  • @quid435
    @quid435 2 месяца назад +1

    Man imagine being 76 and knowing you might die writing at a desk instead of being around your family and loved ones. I cant blame him for taking his time at all

  • @ramiromen6595
    @ramiromen6595 2 месяца назад +8

    I'm on the camp that believes his works are being finished one way or the other regardless of his desires. Of course i'm neither George nor am i in his position but i believe that if he were to accept that possibility then he could enjoy his time and wealth in peace.
    Don't take this as me being edgy or a jerk towards him, it's just that with so much money on the line any excuse is a good one to keep publishing books. It's not that we lack examples of this phenomenom as stuff like the wheel of time or dune easily come to mind.
    Now if that's good or bad for the legacy of said sagas i let to its corresponing fandoms to say, as i'm not part of neither of them.

  • @iampfaff
    @iampfaff 2 месяца назад +1

    Man I kinda feel for him, if I was him I would be really upset at myself reading everyone's opinions online and realizing that I was running out of time to correct it

  • @Void7.4.14
    @Void7.4.14 2 месяца назад +1

    I think a huge part of the problem is that instead of committing to one thing GRRM has a bunch of plates spinning all at once and that'll always lead to bad results, these shows share a common flaw.
    Look at the best shows, The Sopranos (David Chase), Oz (Tom Fontana), The Wire David Simon and Ed Burns), The Shield (Shawn Ryan), Mad Men (Matt Weiner), Boardwalk Empire (Terry Winter), not my favorites but Breaking Bad (Vince Gilligan), Sons Of Anarchy (Kurt Sutter, there's a noticable shift once he leaves Mayans MC which furthes my point), fit the bill, among others, and one thing that runs through em all is that there was at least 1 person there from beginning to end with the vision and power to ensure it was staying true to that vision and doesn't run into these kinds of issues. They may have flaws, obviously, but at no point do they dramatically lose the plot and many issues had external factors.
    If George wants these shows to stay true to his vision he's going about it all wrong, he has to be deeply involved from beginning to end and avoid any contract that hands over creative control to others. This obviously leaves em with no time to do much of anything else, but it's the only way his vision will be respected.
    He has to either do TV or books, can't realistically do both. But he also clearly isn't happy with the results of having one foot in, one foot out, and no real veto power.
    Edit: It's ALL his legacy and even if he never finishes the series its his art, his choice, and HE OWES US NOTHING.

  • @fjkelley4774
    @fjkelley4774 2 месяца назад +5

    In hindsight, I do not believe HBO would have taken on GOT if they had any idea that even now GRRM would not have completed the story. It may be that he himself had no idea, and he *did* release "Dance with Dragons" so quickly that HBO (and D&D) must have expected the concluding volume soon. And maybe he did think it would be just one, not two. Or three. Now, it is also the case that we really have no idea how much he has written; mostly for "Winds of Winter", but maybe even things that will end up in "Dream of Spring". Tolkien for one, wrote about Middle Earth and its peoples for years after (supposedly writing more about Galadriel only a few months before his death). There are, it is said, any number of his manuscripts, some complete, some not, some contradictory, and so on, and we have only seen a few.
    This is an interesting topic.

  • @kimauthor
    @kimauthor 2 месяца назад +2

    His legacy would be that he never finished A Song of Ice & Fire

  • @saraseveryn8650
    @saraseveryn8650 2 месяца назад +3

    I find it funny how many people have opinions regarding ASOIAF and the books being completed as well as GRRM. He is a real person doing real things with his time.
    The absence of a completed book series does not mean GRRM is not working on his books. Time elapses, he is working on his legacy, and we will get what we want (and what some feel entitled to) when it happens! And at that time, we will fill our curious, hungry minds with the lierature and further discussion.
    For the mean time, we busy ourselves, like this video on related matter. And GRRM and his universe have popular attention.
    I put out hope and belief, because negative projection doesn't help, and I genuinely believe a masterpiece takes time, and the finishing touches to tie everything together (the ending) would take the most time and care.

    • @noblegalifreyan4551
      @noblegalifreyan4551 2 месяца назад

      He works on too many projects outside his legacy. He admits himself. He seems to be either self sabotaging or got himself into another corner like Dance with Dragons.

  • @TrueYellowDart
    @TrueYellowDart 2 месяца назад +4

    If GRRM is that concerned with legacy then he should trade a few million bucks for greater creative control next time contracts are negotiated.

  • @benitocamelaverga3733
    @benitocamelaverga3733 2 месяца назад +4

    Contrary to most negative takes on the matter i actually believe Winds will be well received no matter what, Fandom erosion has done its part so those who remain will enjoy, or partially pretend to enjoy, most stuff George writes (or "co-writes").
    I believe George has not realised this fact: he no longer needs to prove himself. His legacy is secure if he releases the books in whichever way he can (or almost whichever way he can). It's a 99% chance of success on his part

  • @tywenettelannisther8025
    @tywenettelannisther8025 2 месяца назад +2

    Strictly on the literary realm of fantasy he's at least top 20 of all time. Which seems like me being disrespectfull towards him but with neither of his works being finished nor close to is actually high praise IMO (for the record dudes like Rothfuss barely scrap the top 50 right now). His legacy on this area is acceptable long term, no need to be the best if you don't want to.

  • @wbfwbl8434
    @wbfwbl8434 2 месяца назад +1

    This is your best video 👍 you nailed it 👍

  • @JoseGonzalez-pn5zl
    @JoseGonzalez-pn5zl 2 месяца назад +2

    As you said there the book and the show. The books already cemented his legacy. If anything the show gave these characters life along with some of these great dialogue. Without the finish story we seen how bad it could get it. So his blog was him showing that this what happened when the train goes off the track and it’s not what he envisioned.

  • @ryannewman4412
    @ryannewman4412 2 месяца назад

    Yes. Guys you can forget about Grocery prices getting cheaper and George coming out with a book

  • @ChildOfTheFlower
    @ChildOfTheFlower 2 месяца назад

    George started off as Jon Snow only to become a Tywin Lannister where Cersei Lannister said it best.

  • @Siegbert85
    @Siegbert85 2 месяца назад

    Wait, D&D changed a lot of things that were in the books already. You can't put that on George not having finished his books.

  • @franlpk9587
    @franlpk9587 2 месяца назад +1

    Its all smoke and mirrors. His legacy are his books and he doesnt care about them

  • @aegorbittersteel2154
    @aegorbittersteel2154 2 месяца назад +3

    1st to take the Black for House Blackfyre 🗡
    I think it's a big part of his legacy but not not all of it but if the book series don't get finished then the shows will control a huge chunk of how he's remembered.

    • @lawrencereid2767
      @lawrencereid2767 2 месяца назад +3

      @@aegorbittersteel2154 🏰

    • @lawrencereid2767
      @lawrencereid2767 2 месяца назад +2

      @@aegorbittersteel2154 🖤🏰

    • @aegorbittersteel2154
      @aegorbittersteel2154 2 месяца назад +1

      @lawrencereid2767 great to see you again hope you are doing amazingly

    • @lawrencereid2767
      @lawrencereid2767 2 месяца назад +1

      @@aegorbittersteel2154 yes I am how are you

  • @dougsotto9825
    @dougsotto9825 2 месяца назад

    I would criticize HBO for cutting the budget and episodes when they committing to only four seasons for a complex story. If HBO is gonna do it than it needs to do it correctly in George’s eyes.

  • @pennystocklocks
    @pennystocklocks 2 месяца назад +6

    GRRM is toast ....but he definitely had the best half of a story of all time

  • @darksouls2issupreme162
    @darksouls2issupreme162 2 месяца назад +3

    Bro he hasn't finished even one of his multi part series on Universos hahahaha. The legendary laziness off this dude will eclipse any other achievement of his if this all ends up just as it is right now. That will be his true legacy.

    • @ChildOfTheFlower
      @ChildOfTheFlower 29 дней назад +1

      Dunk and Egg: he has in his own words 6-9 books left
      Fire and Blood: where is part II?
      The main series: Winds and A Dream

  • @SpottedHares
    @SpottedHares 2 месяца назад +2

    It does seem that the short time span between the books becoming successful and the TV show exploding and popularity did work against him. Looking at other popular works of fiction their eat getting either good or questionable adaptations there was enough time for them to cement themselves as book before their larger adaptations arrived.
    With the canceled long night show and talks of a black fire rebellion show and we know the Duncan egg show is coming . The realization is that HBO is producing his works faster than he can at this point. Maybe I’m reading too much into this, but but it really does sound like time is not on Martin side.

    • @dyent
      @dyent 2 месяца назад

      I think Nightflyers is representative of what went wrong
      GOT was a hit, so everyone wanted to replicate it. Some went with similar stories/worlds, some just wanted his name attached and picked up whatever stories he had available, splitting his focus and making him split his attention between all the different projects in different worlds and time periods.

  • @user-ti5cw1ug6l
    @user-ti5cw1ug6l 2 месяца назад +1

    The conclusion of GOT and its reception was the beginning of the end. At least in this case, how the story ends does matter because it greatly impacts if the show/story as a whole gets more viewership after it's finished airing.
    What's worse, surely we must realise that the book ending (which would be the only true redemption for the franchise) will reflect this controversial show ending to an extent and thus might still be less than satisfactory. Perhaps GRRM's legacy depended on a sizeable revision for the final two books.
    As for HOTD, one, it cannot supplant the place of the main ASOIAF story in GRRM's legacy, and two, includes some of the worst of this franchise's on screen adaptation (especially in the second season). It feels like the nail in the coffin, at least for faith in HOTD.
    Season 1 worked because the changes more or less fit the book and added to the source most of the time. Season 2 feels like the complete opposite where we uncover how much the direction of the story is different, and altogether worse, less nuanced, and less compelling than the history book outline. Because of season 2, season 3 will have to stray even farther away from the books. Main characters like Alicent (and honestly any plot element relating to her in season 2) have been ruined worse than anything in GOT all for pointless "I told you so" Rhaenyra moments. What should be major turning points and shifts in tone have no weight or seriousness because everything is a misunderstanding or accident that's just forgotten. Its only through TGC's Aegon that these sorts of things are felt at all this season because they actually impact his character which is why he's the only one that seems to have the nuance and screen presence of a quality ASOIAF character. I wish this was extended to other characters, I really do. With characters like Alicent for instance, where do you go from there?

  • @johnsrhorgan
    @johnsrhorgan 2 месяца назад +1

    I've long assumed the series would be finished, like Wheels of Time, from the author's notes. I'm just praying Sanderson doesn't get the job again. His writing style does nothing for me, personally. Of course, it seems disrespectful to speculate too much on George's passing.

  • @lawrencereid2767
    @lawrencereid2767 2 месяца назад +4

    Castle 🖤

  • @MsMartinMuses
    @MsMartinMuses 2 месяца назад +2

    They will be since he refuses to finish ASOIAF

  • @J_ads2000
    @J_ads2000 2 месяца назад +3

    I mean at least HBO are feeding the fandom, might not always be the best of the best work but George has starved his fans. He won’t be creating material for a while and thus the people complaining can either get no ASOIAF or mediocre ASOIAF content.

    • @kedrprao
      @kedrprao 2 месяца назад +1

      Would you eat raw chicken?? No!! So, feeding is not enough. 'food' should be tasty. HBO's dish 'house of the dragon' is god awful trash

  • @ayiza8511
    @ayiza8511 2 месяца назад +1

    Look in an ideal world the books would be Georges legacy specially the Ice and Fire series, but unless he pulls of a miracle its highly unlikely hes gonna mange to finish both winds of winter and dream of spring. so for the better or for the worse what the majority og his fans are gonna remember after his passing is Game of Thrones HotD and the other series hbo might make. and its a shame in my personal opinon the books were deeper and richer than any of the tv series

  • @keybladechosn1
    @keybladechosn1 2 месяца назад

    George's Legacy is the book. The TV Show, Game of Thrones will be rebooted in another 15 years. And then again in 20 years and then again in another 20 years. However, the books will be forever. Adaptations come and go, but the source material will always remain.

  • @ricardoafonso430
    @ricardoafonso430 2 месяца назад

    Kudos ti GRRM And to you for making this video

  • @noblegalifreyan4551
    @noblegalifreyan4551 2 месяца назад

    I think George gets way to distracted because he was a popular but not mainstream time but respectedauthor for many years until 2011 where inagine having to wait until your twilight years to become majorly successful. The problem is he seems to be caught up in the fame that he put himself on an unstable ladder thats on top of a skyscraper. He now onky realizes that his legacy will be the man who could have been a legend that is tripping at the finish line

  • @Purple_Lilith
    @Purple_Lilith 2 месяца назад

    GoT may not have a good ending, but it does have an ending.
    If he wants a better legacy, he needs to finish the books.

  • @kjellduteweert9262
    @kjellduteweert9262 2 месяца назад

    Yeah, but Season 2 burned the bridge; the first half of Season 2 was good. But the other half, damn, that was so bad, especially the final scene between Alicent and Rheanyra. The show made a mistake by making it about Alicent and Rhaenyra instead of Rhaenyra and her brother. I suppose we will see if we can fix season 3 or if it will burn like Seasons 7 and 8 of Game of Thrones. They had an outline for House, but they made man bad woman good story. I asked why?

  • @trap41sosa78
    @trap41sosa78 2 месяца назад

    Still just waiting on the next dunk and egg she wolves

  • @AlexanderJoneshttps
    @AlexanderJoneshttps 2 месяца назад

    Think the reason why he hadn't finished the book aswell as producing HoTD because he was also working with Fromsoftware on Elden Ring + Shodow of Erdtree dlc and many other projects fan of both Fromsoftware and GRRM , JRR Tolkien but I can understand but I think GoT is finished from the Elden Ring haha I'm joking on that part about it being in ASOIAF

    • @noblegalifreyan4551
      @noblegalifreyan4551 2 месяца назад

      He gets way to distracted with new projects because for a long time he was only a well known fantasy author and when he became mainstream he basically got drunk on Fame and popularity

  • @nicolasclermont893
    @nicolasclermont893 2 месяца назад +3

    They are. We will never get a finished series

  • @singstreetcar5881
    @singstreetcar5881 2 месяца назад

    How do u know he was complaining about game of thrones?

  • @CNTconnoisseur
    @CNTconnoisseur 2 месяца назад

    D&D cut pretty much everything from books 4 and 5.

  • @WhoTFisthatguy
    @WhoTFisthatguy 2 месяца назад

    I sure hope not…….🤣🤣🤣

  • @arch1eviathan216
    @arch1eviathan216 2 месяца назад

    The booms are already so much better than the shows. Unless, someone wants to make an animated series adaptation, no live action show will ever faithfully recreate the books

  • @rodgerbane3825
    @rodgerbane3825 2 месяца назад +1

    Short answer, NO!!! I'm so sick of the illiterate dominating cultural discourse.