Yeah, there were some Peyton Manning MVP awards that were a bit questionable. Especially some years where there was clearly a star player that could've taken his place that particular year.
Dewitt McDidditt Peyton was overhyped anyway. Don’t get me wrong he was a really good, smart player with great stats but look at the playoffs. 14-13 playoff record and won two against The Bears with Grossman at QB, and the Panthers in a year the defense carried the team. He gets his butt kicked against the Seahawks and throws a game sealing INT against the Saints.
Biggest problems with the HOF: 1) obsession with Super Bowls. Football is the ultimate team game, even the greatest of all time is only one of 53 2) the fact that a certain fixed number of players have to get in every year. There are some years where only one or two people should get in, and some where more than 5-7 are deserving.
75kyle because drew plays in a Sean Payton throw dominate offence Tom plays in a balanced offence Tom is ether because he’s throw yd’s to over 70 different receivers. In the post season drew chokes hard
@Phoneybeatlemaniacxs not a saints fan but Brees doesn’t choke. You can’t blame him for beastquake, Minneapolis miracle, or the nfc championship no call.
Take cornerbacks for example, if they are truly HOF worthy then likely they won't be compiling a ton of stats because the opposing QB's won't be throwing at them!
Agreed, as long it is a consistent growth to the top, and keeps it there for quite a while. Jim Kelly was not that good either for almost half of his career, which even included the USFL, but he is the HoF because he was dominant for at least 4 years. But E. Manning...
@@ryanstaiger1712 2 Special moments ...led league in interceptions 3x and fumbles once. Maybe 1st team AllPro 1 time. 50/50 in wins...such an average QB. Great NFL story!
He also lead the third 9-7 team to a superbowl. The best WR he had for more than two years was odelle and only because ot was 2 and a half. Other than that it's an undrafted free agent lol. You think if plaxico wouldn't have shot himself in the leg or tiki wouldn't have left he'd be 50/50? Giants also drafted erik flowers and Eli apple within the top 15 of their drafts. Gotta help the man a little bit.
rafi sanders as if that’s a valid excuse. Imagine being top 3 all time in a sport older than your grandparents but not making the HoF just because your position isn’t deemed as important as the almighty QB.
RedStormIII agreed. Owens is at minimum consensus top 5 at his position and still wasn’t first ballot. Brett Favre was MAYBE top 10-15 range and was first ballot.
It's tough to be best quarterback in NFL when you're playing during the GOAT's prime. Would you then exclude Roethlisberger, Rodgers and Wilson because they went from Brady being the best QB to Mahomes? I think that's a weak argument.
TheMantisShrimp Rodgers No Wilson still has plenty time to play and at least he is top 3 QB in league. At no point in time was Eli Manning EVER top 5 QB. Eli will get in because he won 2 Super Bowls and played a long time. Not because he was actually good.
I think the NFL HoF is a combination of longevity of relevance, dominance, and the prestige of accomplishments. That’s how someone like Eli Manning is a hall of Famer. He was in the league for nearly two decades and even was the active Iron Man, which I think is an extremely underrated achievement, he was a good/great QB for most of his Tenure, the face of a franchise for that entire duration, and he won two Super Bowls against what’s universally accepted against the best team of the last two decades. HoF for sure. (Also Zach Thomas should get in already)
The NFL Hall of Fame is a combination of great players and players with great stories. Great regular season players make it, great playoff players who stink the the regular season make it.
Almost all the time, QBs are MVPs in the Super Bowl. Like 8/10 times, it’s overrated. And he has top 10 stats because the amount of years he has played.
Ian Jones Eli Manning’s efficiency was garbage. Led the league in turnovers multiple times, and had plenty of mediocre seasons. In fact, without Odell Beckham his career passer rating is barely 80.
@@jeffscuderi8662 matt forte omg yes when u account his receiving stats yes he was the bears offense. Oh and dont forget Arian foster he didn't last as long but wow he was dynamic too not that long ago
Tom Brady has consistently had one of the strongest teams around him but always gets almost the entirety of the credit. A lot of teams I'm sure play expecting to lose because this narrative has just been built up for the past 20 years how unstoppable and great the Patriots and Brady are.
Idk sterling Shepard,OBJ, evan ingram, and saquon. Throw in brady that sounds like a superbowl tean right there. Eli is a big problem.. but he a HOFER in my opinion
Chris Paul point god this may be true but you also have to remember the coaching staff around them they had Ben Macadoo and shurmer. Also offense isn’t everything. If you remember 2016 when they went to wildcard round they only did cause the defense carried them. Offense was terrible that year. Honestly idk when I got to lol but like the offense isn’t everything and injuries also played into it a lot. None of them where on the field for the same time a lot either
Tom really is EXTREMELY overrated not even very talented he can read defenses well but in terms of arm strength athleticism he has always had a above average oline and receivers except this year of course that's why his numbers dipped
Eli missed the playoffs 10 times in his 16 year career, was never considered an elite QB, led the league in interceptions multiple times and is 12th all time in most interceptions thrown. He shouldn’t be considered for the HoF at all.
People don’t like to hear that. His efficiency was terrible, and his career passer rating without Odell Beckham barely makes it above 80. Can’t believe this man will be put in the Hall.
He has the resume to get in. That's a combination of stats, accomplishments, legendary stories, and the conduct off and on the filed. And context needs to be applied.
Joseph Cox context does need to be applied. If we applied context, Eli definitely wouldn’t be a HOF’er. His 2 playoff runs doesn’t disqualify the fact that he never won a playoff game in any other year. Or had a .500 record. Or the fact that he was never viewed as a top 10 QB in the league during his time
@@aariesharris7894 His resume has a win against a team that nobody else in the league could beat an undefeated Patriots team. In the first 12 years of his career he accumulated over 100 victories. His two play off runs were on the road so his team had to win extra games. And in those 2 runs his starts are all time great level in the playoffs where it matters most. He is top 7 all time in passing yards touchdowns ECT. And he is a 2 time super bowl MVP and he actually delivered as a #1 over all pick in New York which is the hardest market to play in. Plus the magical moments and he is also in the top 10 for comeback wins ECT. I actually watched this guy play I know what he brought to the table. Those 2 Superbowl the Giants won are thanks to his play through the playoffs. The Giants defence was not as good as people make it seem. Those two super bowls the Giants had no business being in with out Eli's production in the playoffs.it's not his fault the Giants management was a mess the last 6 years. At this rate he will have more Superbowl rings then Rodgers and Russel Wilson, and Matt Ryan and they have had significantly better coaching staffs and players on their teams.
@@aariesharris7894 he was a top ten QB in the league in his career don't let ESPN fool you they and the NFL have been hating on this man his entire career because he is not as good as his brother and he did not want to play for the chargers. Michael Kay in an interview in 2010 just after the season ended asked him on a show called Center Stage if he believed he was a top 10 quarterback. He said yes and the media world through a fit over it and then this man threw 29 TDs and nearly 5000 yards. His team went 9 and 7. As the wild card team meaning every game was on the road he played amazing and won a Superbowl. Don't let main stream media sway your opinion he was better than top 10 for awhile. He had bad teams and bad coordinates and coaches and a GM that refused to give him a line of any sort, and he never bad mouthed any of them total class his entire career.
The argument for “if you weren’t the best at your position then you shouldn’t be a hall of famer” is bullshit, because most people would say Frank Gore was never the BEST back in the league but anyone with football Knowledge knows that gore is a certified hall of famer !!!💯
Gore will get in because of a long career but he was never a difference maker on the field. He's 3 yards and a cloud of dust. Never elite, not a game breaker. Not even when he was young.
I'm a Brit and we have the philosophy with association football that if a player deserves to be remembered, he will. Thus we don't have a hall of fame and instead just have club legends.
I agree with you that baseball is a lot easier than football to select for the Hall of Fame. There seems to be a rubric for baseball that gives you at least a certain percentage chance to get in (ie, 3000 hits, 600 hole runs, 300 wins). But even that has fallen by the wayside with steroids, shorter starting pitching stints, etc. Now the argument that mistakes were made in letting some players in is used to justify letting in others with similar stats (and who didn’t piss off the press like Curt Shilling). Football is the ultimate team sport because of the specialization of the positions. Ergo it is hard to choose o line and d lineman, especially before the sack became a stat, for the hall. Truly a conundrum!
I agree. Like look at Brian Urlacher verses Zach Thomas. Urlacher was picked 8th overall, was a prototypical sized linebacker, and put up great numbers; he was a first ballot hall of famer. Zach Thomas has almost identical numbers, he has more tackles, but less sacks, was undersized at the position, and was picked in the 5th round; he just got snubbed from the hall of fame for the 6th time.
Let's be honest two years ago I would watch anthonio brown play and say damn he has a real chance to be in the hall of fame but now it has gone to 0 percent chance he is going in
Looking now like here are the current QBs that have any shot at getting in GOAT: Tom Brady First Ballot: Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers 2nd Ballot: Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan (Has/Will have the stats and the MVP which goes along way) On the Cusp of HoF: Russell Wilson (Will get in but should be playing at least decade in the League to make next tier) Cam Newton (MVP will go along way, If he can go to a new team and succeed, Canton can be a real possibility but not now at all only thing keeping him here is the MVP) Fire Starts: Patrick Mahomes ( Likely at a 10 QB all time, has an MVP and SB in first 3 seasons) Lamar Jackson (2nd Season in the league, 1 MVP, has about a 2-3 year window to win a SB and in the meantime can grab another MVP, As long as he says healthy and if he doesn't can rebound and change his game to a more passing QB which I believe he has the potential to do, he does that and has more success. Canton is a real possibility.
I’m just glad my favorite player Kurt Warner got in. He doesn’t have the all time best career stats. He WAS the best QB a number of times. He got a raw deal from the Rams and still came back to lead the Cardinals to almost their first super bowl victory.
The Hall of Fame is a joke. You can't tell me with any level of intelligence that Bill Cowher made it in before Tom Flores. I don't hate Cowher and I don't love Flores, but the NFL has buried that man's legacy straight into the ground.
What if instead of the first ballot being 5 years it would be 7 or 10. If it was 10 years all of their colleges would’ve retired, and then you could compare them to the players they played against instead of comparing players from different eras
My only problem is that if we are going to start Making the Hall of Fame more difficult to get into, Then we should also be retroactively removing players from the Hall of Fame who shouldn't have been in in the first place. disallowing guys like Eli Manning and keep other guys in there who shouldn't be is dumb too The reality is the Hall of Fame is not as stringent as it once was
But it needs to be better. Allowing Eli in just continues to send the message that mediocrity over a long career is good enough. Not being the best at your position, but winning a few important games, is all you really need. Playing in a big metropolitan and media city counts as a resume builder. Having a famous last name/family is a HOF consideration. You can argue people who are already in the HOF as much as you want. But they are there forever. Mistakes have been made. Our job now is to make less mistakes. Raise the bar. Don’t try to retroactively change history, just stop making dumb mistakes in the first place. Don’t put players in the HOF unless they are truly the best.
@@smequals but my point is that if you are going to start being stringent it's bull crap to allow people to stay in the Hall of Fame who should never have been there and now you're going to start disallowing other players. I just don't think they should start changing the criteria if they're not going to go back and at least recognize this certain players should not have been in there as well.
Cornsnake 4815 but how do you kick out guys from the HOF? Do you go to their house and take back their Gold Jackets? Do you make their busts just disappear? Do you erase their memories and speeches, Men-In-Black style, and pretend it never happened? Do you tell the fans that their favorite player who was in the HOF is no longer there? To me it is like taking the banners away and erasing the record books like NCAA sometimes does when there is a scandal. I hate that and I think it is dumb. Let’s pretend the team and players never played the game during that period. It’s ridiculous. All that does is dishonors the players involved and craps on those who made the decisions. And having us pretend it never happened, as if we are that dumb ourselves. I care about reality. What I am saying is that the NFL continues to evolve. What was great 30 years ago would likely not pass for even average today. The responsibility of the HOF is to keep their standards high and it represents the best of the best of the NFL. If that has slipped, we don’t say, “oh well, I guess we accept mediocrity now because we let a few marginal players in the HOF in the past.” No, we make sure the standards are high and we try to be better. We try not to make emotional or biased arguments, and we stay true to what the HOF claims that it is - the best of the best. Don’t lower standards. Raise them. But you can’t change history. You can only try to make the present and future better.
@@smequals the top thing about especially the Football Hall of Fame is that there is so much variability in the statistics and accomplishments that determine who gets in. Offensive lineman dont have the notoriety or specific accolades as quarterbacks. Or kickers. Or safety's. It's so variable. So I understand the argument for Eli where you are looking at the quarterback Who went on two of the greatest postseason runs toppling the greatest Dynasty at their Peak. And that is something that will never be forgotten in football and should be recognized. But it's also just as valid to say to Eli Mannings overall career doesnt warrant the hall.
Ryan still has time...he’s teetering on the edge since he’s 34 and if we can get a competent coaching staff and an average defense we could get back to a SB and win one. Another MVP or All-Pro season wouldn’t hurt either
If he wins a superbowl he'll be a champ with 2 SB appearances, stats, and an MVP definetly enough for HoF, so hopefully he can get that ring and get in th HoF.
How many QBs have multiple SB MVPs? Exactly he's getting in. Not like he's in the top 10 in every stat, 11th in comebacks, and is officially ranked the most clutch QB in the post (with NFL records added).
TheKman1014 he played 16 years. Had a .500 record. Made the playoffs 6 times. Besides the 2 times he won it all, he lost his 1st playoff game every other time. But his surface stats look so good, he’s gonna get rewarded for mediocrity throughout the rest of his career. After all, they got Joe Namath in the HOF off that SB win. But then again, he was good compared to the rest of his QB peers at the time. Eli was a top 10 QB in the league probably once in his career
Aaries Harris he also played on some terrible teams. In 2014 and 2015 he was killing it and they would lose because of the defense. Can't place a team stat on him.
There's also the likability factor. If the media likes you, it'll help. I hated T.O. when he played. But I respect, the hell outta his game. The fact that he wasn't a 1st ballot, with his #'s and accomplishments... Is a joke! On the other hand. Curtis Martin has the #'s, but always truck me as JAG. Even when he led the league in rushing. I would've rather had LT, Lewis, Holmes, or Alexander. Why did Jimmy Johnson wait so long, but Dungy got in so quick? TD has a losing playoff record, for God sakes.
Stats in baseball show skill and mainly skill. If you aren’t fundamentally a good hitter you won’t have good stats. But I’m the NFL you can be fundamentally bad QB and put up fantastic numbers because of how good your team is. NFL stats aren’t personal, they are directly tied to the performance of other players, baseball and basketball aren’t really like that except for a new stats.
Eli Manning is a very debatable decision even though his best season was in 2011 it still is had to forget the amount of bone-headed plays he made but you can also make an argument for the number of clutch moments he had. It is also very hard to make a case for guys like Aaron Rodgers who had very good numbers in the regular season but are not always consistent in the playoffs and tend to do too much when it matters most.
There is no standard. Because the NFL see’s it as an opportunity to make money. The more eyes on it, the better. So, everyone that can brings attention to the HOF, get’s in.
Biggie Smalls got into the ROCK AND ROLL hall of fame so it could be worse Zac. At least the football hall of fame isn't letting hockey players in or something similar.
I like a lot of your points. I think to be eligible a player should have to be first or second team AP all pro for at least 5 years of your career. It’s a quantifiable measure given to elite players, not just a pro bowl birth that’s given to half of the league it seems now. It also displays longevity to be more than a flash in the pan. Then super bowl titles and awards can be considered from there. Only point I disagree with is saying that the NFL would never let Michael Vick into the hall of fame or it would make them look bad. I think if the NFL was concerned about being associated with Vick’s past crimes they would never have given him a second chance to play with the Eagles, or further opportunities with the jets and Steelers. He won comeback player of the year; That’s the ultimate story of redemption. If anything, Vick is the hall of fame example that someone can make a mistake, learn from their past, and redeem themselves in the league. Couple that with his impact on the mobile quarterback in today’s league and I think you have a justified example for a hall of famer
That only compares you to players who played while you played. You may not be able to win AP against the competition you played against but you could still be better than someone who made the Hall competing against weaker competition.
I feel like the NFL has always been a film and highlight reel sport than a statistical sport to begin with. I don't really know any player that has gone into the Hall of Fame or became the MVP based on stats. Sure stats are evident but only because those players are so dominant. It's more so the amount of times they changed the outcome of a contest on their own and how important those particular games were.
Remember it is the hall of FAME not the hall of great players. Being a great player gives you fame that helps you get in but there is more to it. A lot of people think that Joe Namath doesn't make it in if he doesn't guarantee victory is SB 3. One completely non football moment followed by what he did in one game put him in.
@@SaintJames012 Eli never played particularly well to begin with though yes that year was abnormally bad but that's the thing it was abnormal. I don't know what the free agency looked like at that time but if they couldn't get a consistent veteran which I doubt they could there was no point in cutting him
1-2 Acolades should not be enough to be in the Hall of Fame. The only thing that should matter are all pros, this shows how long a player was elite in the league.
All Pros don't show how you stack up against players at your position from different eras who may have made the HoF. Also the goal is to win the SB. All Pros are regular season accolades only. Let's say for 13 years you made a bunch of All Pros and even won an MVP. But you came up small in the playoffs just as consistently as you were amazing in the regular season. What was your actual value? What did you do in this ultimate team sport besides accumulate personal stats and what is the value of that vs making clutch plays when it matters most on the way winning a SB and being the MVP of that SB?
OJ Simpson was also without a doubt the best running back if his era, on top of that he was inducted into the HoF long before he was on trial for murder...
@@GiantsFan1734 Why is it stupid? Nick Foles is a Super Bowl MVP, outplaying Brady, with a higher winning % and a higher career winning% and QB rating than Eli Manning. Foles just wasn't given the same opportunities because his name is Nick Foles and not Nick Manning. Remember the "story of Eli" Eli REFUSING to play for the team like he drafted for like a spoiled brat?
You shouldn't have let the dislikes get you man. You were the right the first time l. Eli Manning is not a hall of famer You had prime time Deon Sanders agreeing with you!
@@b-train6362 Yeah he is more a Colt than a Bronco, but i'm glad he helped us and we helped him to get that ring! Some people keep telling me that Peyton was overrated and he should not be first ballot.
It’ll never work because of the biased writers that vote. The fact that TO wasn’t a first ballot hof is one of the biggest cases. That man retired being unquestionably a top 5 receiver ever and you can make a real strong argument that he’s 2nd ever. But those writers are petty and if they don’t like you as a person they won’t vote you in
And then the nfl slapped him in the face again by not putting him on the 100 team if you can name 5 better receivers not named rice or moss I’d love to hear that bullshit
Eli Manning isn't an HoF by any stretch. He was never a top 5 player at the position at any point in his career. 2 great runs in your career does not make you a HoF. His records are for playing well/decent for a very long time in a pass happy league. He is not a prime time, von Miller, Aaron Rodgers, Adrian Peterson, Russel Wilson, Luke Keuchly, Ray Lewis etc type of player. Nobody and I mean NOBODY went into a game afraid of Eli Manning. No defensive coordinator lost sleep because they had to stop him. How tf can he be an Hof? The fact that this is even an argument is a travesty. The HoF is for the most dominant players of an era.
No that's not what the HoF is for. It's the hall of famous dude. Anyone who's popular and played half decently gets in. It's sad but it's the way it goes.
Eli Manning was top and his position in the 2008 season when they went 12 and 4 best team in the lead could have made another Super Bowl run but Prosecco shot himself in the leg
@@michael_2xx408 in 2008 he was 19th in completion percentage, 17th in yards, 11th in tds, 15th in passer rating and 12th in qbr. He did have a good season 60% 3200yds 21tds 10 ints. For comparison Drew Brees 65% 5100 yd 34tds 17ints Matt Cassel 63% 3700yds 21tds 11ints Peyton Manning 67% 4000yds 27tds 12ints Kurt Warner 67% 4600yds 30tds 14ints Chad Pennington 67% 3700yds 19tds 7ints Aaron Rodgers 64% 4000yds 28tds 13ints Phillip Rivers 65% 4000yds 34tds 11ints Eli Manning, even in his best seasons, was nothing more than a good quarterback.
Zac, it sounds like the Eli debate broke you. First you said no, then you said yes, and now you’re just letting it be what it is. And that’s honest. Halls of Fame, and most awards or honors, are a seemingly endless source of frustration and debate. I could go on and on about the Rock and Roll HOF and the Grammy Awards, but this is a sports show so I’ll stick to that. I get how you reached this conclusion, but the name of your show is Strong Opinion Sports. Sounds like you no longer have a strong opinion about this topic. You gave up. I was disappointed to hear that. I respect you for being thoughtful, but I hope you don’t take this position in the future on the tough questions. Well, you sure can, it’s your show, but I would hope that if you do, you consider changing the name of your show to something like, “Thoughtfully Fluid Opinion Sports”. Less catchy but more accurate.
I feel like certain positions are not valued enough, especially FB. Will a pure blocking full back get into the HOF? Most likely not. Even Lerenzo Neal, arguably the best blocking full back we have ever seen said himself that he might ever make it to the HOF
Ken Anderson was a far better QB than Eli, quality-wise. Especially taking into account how football was played in the 70-80s, and he is not in the HoF.
Eli is not a HOF quarterback. Even Giants fans know better. Never did the opposing team fear Eli. That's what HOF do, intimidate and perform at the highest of levels. Now does that sound like Eli to you? Get real
If Eli played for a team that didn't waste first round picks he would have been alot better. He made dudes like manningham and steve smith not sr, Hixon, Boss, Toomer and had one hit wonders at rb. Eli beat the patriots twice in sb and got mvp both times. Those playoff runs were arguably two of the goats. All I'm saying is if you swap eli with almost any team that had a great o line and a wr he's better. Imagine him with ray rice, smith sr or boldin and that ravens defense. Your talking about either the Pat's winning it all or the ravens. Eli gets all this flack for the way the organization handled drafts and trades.
Any QB on the giants in the past like 5 years would be trash let's be honest, Eli manning is very talented and an overall great QB who led his team for years and got 2 superbowls against a super team.
Thought this was a no spin zone ... Eli is not a hall of famer. Not on paper , not by eye ball. Longevity does not mean greatness. He is in the hall of just above average. Stop it
@@Bbbmurr google joe namath's career record and keep that same energy, because i know u low iq fans dont have a clue lol. While youre at it google Eli's postseason record. Maybe youll find that hes also top ten in yards and touchdowns.
Eli will get in due to the 2 super bowls Yet, Eli is *NOT* a HOFer This is precisely why I feel the same way about it, what's the standard? Why is it always changing?.....makes it hard to care as a fan. Now eventually as a league historian it may be cool to look back on
Ok to me if you have to think about not hall of fame let’s go to modern times easy to do people still playing you tell me hall of fame Tom Brady hall Aaron Rodgers hall Larry Fitzgerald hall Adrian Peterson hall Von Miller hall khali Mack hall Big Ben hall going to recently retired peyton hall Eli sorry is hall to me Phillip rivers no carton Palmer no
You are being to hard on Eli how is he suppose to be the greatest quarterback of his era when the greatest player of all time in his era is a quarterback for Eli to be the greatest quarterback of his time he would have to be the greatest player of all time. Eli had to play with drew brees, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady he also had to deal with the Giants, not a very good organization
Eli was never once considered a top 5 QB throughout his career and led the league in interceptions 3 times. The Giants are a good organization, they've made it to the super bowl and won in each of the past 4 decades, that's consistent competence.
@@GHOSTY345 you have good arguments but 2 of the Superbowls was Eli Manning's and he is the only reason Tom Brady hasn't won all of his Superbowls the past years he was riddled with one of the worst teams in the NFL I am saying they are a bad organization now most of his interceptions is because of his terrible offensive lines
I don’t think we are being hard on Eli. We’re evaluating him for the Hall Of Fame. Which is the place where we honor the best players of all time. If Eli played with the best of all time and didn’t rise to that level, then he’s not one of the best all time. It’s really pretty simple. He had a very good career and got paid like he was an elite quarterback, but he really was pretty good and he did that for a very long time. That’s a good career and let’s praise him for his time and service, and entertainment. Which we have done, no doubt. But Canton does not need to call. That doesn’t diminish his career. The HOF is not perfect by any means, but the least we can do is attempt to keep the standards high.
@@GHOSTY345 first of all Brett Favre led the lead in interceptions to Also Eli Manning was top and his position in the 2008 season when they went 12 and 4 best team in the lead could have made another Super Bowl run but Prosecco shot himself in the leg
Eli lead the league in ints multiple seasons, has gone on multiple playoff droughts after winning his two superbowls and it took him until his last game to be a .500 w/l quarterback. most overrated career of all time.
I think the Eli was never the best qb argument is dumb that’s like saying Clyde drexler shouldn’t be in the hof because he was never the best sg in the nba Eli and Clyde both played while the goat of those sports were playing
Vick will be in the HOF after this decade 2030 earliest. That's enough time for the current "gate keepers" to pass and the ppl who faced vick or covered him can vote
@@kb24shortoreo21 Talent does not a hall of famer make at all. If a player raped and murdered a child (as an extreme example) they shouldn't be allowed into the hall, there's a certain integrity that needs to be upheld. Statistically speaking he's not even close to being a hall of famer, accomplishments is another big nope. 1 of 1? Ever heard of Colin Kaepernick or Lamar Jackson? Is Kaepernick a hall of famer to you? He at least made a super bowl? So I'll ask again, but what measure is Vick even close to being a hall of famer? Statistics - No Accomplishments - No Uniqueness - He was unique but lets not act like we haven't seen anything like him (see above).
@@GHOSTY345 vick had success before and after prison and is still demonstrating how 1 messup doesn't define you. There would be no Lamar or colin or Taysom hill or any 4.3 running qbs if vick didnt show that. 1st qb to rush for 1000. I'm from GA and his Impact is why Russell Wilson Lamar Colin Mariota dak josh allen get looked at. He transformed the position. You cant talk about 2000s football with mentioning his name. Also OJ still in the HOF ray rice records still stand etc.. Gale sayers played 7 years he a HOF. Terrell Davis played 4 years and he a HOFer
You need influence, accomplishments and stats. E. Manning only has the one in the middle. Jim Plunkett also won 2 Superbowls, and is not in the HoF. Case closed IMO.
Funny thing about Matt Ryan. He has 4 Pro Bowls and was the NFL MVP in 2016. He has made it to one Super Bowl, and should have won it, but it turned into the biggest comeback in Super Bowl history and another ring for Brady. The emotional argument is that Matt Ryan is not a HOF’er because he didn’t win. But if Eli Manning is one, Matt Ryan must be one. Matt Ryan has at least been in the conversation as being one of the best quarterbacks in his generation for a least a short amount of time. You don’t get a league MVP for being mediocre for 16 years, but you do for being the best player in the league for one. I put Matt Ryan right in the conversation with Eli, and Ryan likely has some time to improve on his legacy. Ryan has a very good chance of passing Eli in career stats. I think Ryan has a good chance in the next 3 years to have a clearly stronger HOF resume than Eli, even if he doesn’t play another playoff game, much less a Super Bowl.
That said, is Matt Ryan an NFL Hall of Famer in my (strong) opinion? No. Not at this time. But I think his case is actually a bit stronger than Eli’s, even without the Super Bowl MVP’s that Eli has. Ryan is/was just a better quarterback. And if we are going to say Eli is a HOF’er, Ryan has to be one.
@@smequals Eli Manning was top and his position in the 2008 season when they went 12 and 4 best team in the lead could have made another Super Bowl run but Prosecco shot himself in the leg
michael _2xx I’m not a Falcons fan. I am not advocating for Matt Ryan to be in the HOF. I think if Eli is in the discussion, Matt Ryan should be too, as he has a slightly better case.
michael _2xx in 2008 there were at least 5 QB’s better than him in the regular season. If his greater success was dependent upon one bonehead receiver, the argument is done. Eli was irrelevant.
I live in the UK and watch a lot of the NFL. Can someone explain something which I've been wondering about for a few years now. My sport is Rugby League (a derivative of Union played with 13 men instead of 15). Like all collision sports it has instituted a raft of concussion protocols in the wake of the NFL's looming CTE crisis. Also, the sport has clamped down hard on hits close to or above the shoulders - especially since league players wear no head protection. It's changed the game (some think not for the better) - but we had to address safety because players were hitting harder and more often. But head shots aren't the only concern in league. Over the last decade we have really clamped down on aggressive wrestling-style moves which seek to attack the knees, elbows and ankles. Here's the thing - if you were to ask any player in a collision sport which injury they would "prefer" to suffer I'm willing to bet most would cop a heat shot before someone attacking their knees or ankles. Especially since potentially career-ending ACL and Achilles injuries are becoming more and more prevalent. And yet when I watch the NFL I see guys deliberately targeting the standing leg all the time. Or hyperextending the elbow and shoulder (known as a "chickenwing tackle") Are there rules in place to stop this? Are the referees not enforcing them? How is this allowed to continue??
the thing is you can go on whit your life after a bad knee injury you can still be a tv commenter or simply go on whit your life, but whit CTE you are done, people became suicidal or worst like Aron Hernandez, Antonio Brown, etc. I'm not saying it`s perfect but that's what I think this is not that "important" when your an athlete injury is just part of the job description but CTE is just scary cuz it`s not a career-ending injury it`s a life-ending injury
@@psychokrusherstudios1457 I see what you are saying - but I'm pretty sure that if you were to poll a hundred NFL players about whether they'd prefer to take a headshot and roll the dice on the possibility that they might develop complications in their post-career or having somone attack their knee and risk ending their career in the only profession they know anything about (not to mention draw a line under the income which they use to support not just their wives and children - but extended family also) they'd choose the former in most cases. I'm not suggesting for a moment that we should tolerate hits to the head. But I find it somewhat cynical that the NFL is prepared to protect the health of players on an issue which they have a vested interest in not being considered liable for in the civil courts (to the tune of several hundred million dollars in class-action lawsuits) whilst they don't seem to have any problem with players *deliberately* targetting an opponent's joints in an attempt to put them out of the game (or even out of the league full stop).
GnRmike exactly!!! He’s a below average QB who won 1 important game and was carried by his defense. If he didn’t win SB3 after guaranteeing it, he would be nowhere near the HoF
When he said it requires story to get into the nfl is the sad part (kind of). I feel like it might make players act out then try to still have a record breaking career. Idk
If you can come up with any argument in terms of their on the field play, for why they might not be a HOF, then they arent worty. The HOF should be for the guys that are undoubtedly great.
Eli doesnt deserve to get in even on his 3rd year of eligibility. They made Terrell Owens wait 3 years. If Eli gets in within his 3rd year then we should all boycott the Hall of Fame
Terrell Owens isn't that great. A 3-year wait sounds about right...probably should be 4 or 5 year wait. Eli should get in the Hall on his last year of eligibility...if there's room.
Zac is about to flip flop again, Eli isn't a hofer, Eli is a hofer, back to his original view that Eli isnt a hofer. Strong flip flopping sports. 😂 Instead of bowing to pressure from a fan base how about sticking with your original opinion so it won't get you down? You can't and don't have to please everyone.
Of course Eli wasn't ever considered the best QB in the NFL. Eli competed against Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, 2 HOF QB's and record setting QB's perennially. You sound really silly. Eli is elite. Name another QB who beat Favre,Rodgers,Brady and has 2 rings.
Can we get some more examples of players "stories" getting them inducted into he Hall of Fame? Because this has only really been a big issue the past couple weeks arguing about Eli Manning.
It’s the same with the MVP award. 99% of the time it just goes to the QB with the big, flashy stats.
Yeah, there were some Peyton Manning MVP awards that were a bit questionable. Especially some years where there was clearly a star player that could've taken his place that particular year.
Dewitt McDidditt Peyton was overhyped anyway. Don’t get me wrong he was a really good, smart player with great stats but look at the playoffs. 14-13 playoff record and won two against The Bears with Grossman at QB, and the Panthers in a year the defense carried the team. He gets his butt kicked against the Seahawks and throws a game sealing INT against the Saints.
or the QB without the stats.....Mahomes had his worse game as a pro
JJ watt got robbed
Biggest problems with the HOF:
1) obsession with Super Bowls. Football is the ultimate team game, even the greatest of all time is only one of 53
2) the fact that a certain fixed number of players have to get in every year. There are some years where only one or two people should get in, and some where more than 5-7 are deserving.
Exactly with that first point is why tom brady is considered the goat over drew brees. Even though brees has better stats.
75kyle because drew plays in a Sean Payton throw dominate offence Tom plays in a balanced offence Tom is ether because he’s throw yd’s to over 70 different receivers. In the post season drew chokes hard
There should be no year where less than 5 players get in. There are more than 22 positions on a football team. Every position needs to be respected!
@Phoneybeatlemaniacxs not a saints fan but Brees doesn’t choke. You can’t blame him for beastquake, Minneapolis miracle, or the nfc championship no call.
David McCright Tom in the playoffs is 30-11 drew bree is 8-6
Take cornerbacks for example, if they are truly HOF worthy then likely they won't be compiling a ton of stats because the opposing QB's won't be throwing at them!
Tony Gonzalez wasn’t that good his first couple years, so the argument that they have to be great their whole career seems kind of flawed
Agreed, as long it is a consistent growth to the top, and keeps it there for quite a while. Jim Kelly was not that good either for almost half of his career, which even included the USFL, but he is the HoF because he was dominant for at least 4 years. But E. Manning...
Guillermo Barrio ya, 2 Super Bowls tho is something special....
@@ryanstaiger1712 2 Special moments ...led league in interceptions 3x and fumbles once. Maybe 1st team AllPro 1 time. 50/50 in wins...such an average QB. Great NFL story!
He also lead the third 9-7 team to a superbowl. The best WR he had for more than two years was odelle and only because ot was 2 and a half. Other than that it's an undrafted free agent lol. You think if plaxico wouldn't have shot himself in the leg or tiki wouldn't have left he'd be 50/50? Giants also drafted erik flowers and Eli apple within the top 15 of their drafts. Gotta help the man a little bit.
It's the Hall of Fame not the Hall of Talent. You have to take EVERYTHING into account not just how many touchdowns and yards.
The HoF is like the ultimate employee of the month award. You're not really sure how it happened, but you just accept it.
Well said
I stopped taking it seriously when Terrell Owens wasn’t a first ballot
RedStormIII for real. Total joke
Why? Only one wr has ever been a first ballot Hof. His name was Jerry Rice
rafi sanders as if that’s a valid excuse. Imagine being top 3 all time in a sport older than your grandparents but not making the HoF just because your position isn’t deemed as important as the almighty QB.
RedStormIII agreed. Owens is at minimum consensus top 5 at his position and still wasn’t first ballot. Brett Favre was MAYBE top 10-15 range and was first ballot.
@@JoycenatorGaming first part is true not second part
"everybody shoots"
*Ben Simmons: Am I a joke to you?*
Cory Goodman this 😂
It's tough to be best quarterback in NFL when you're playing during the GOAT's prime. Would you then exclude Roethlisberger, Rodgers and Wilson because they went from Brady being the best QB to Mahomes? I think that's a weak argument.
TheMantisShrimp Rodgers No Wilson still has plenty time to play and at least he is top 3 QB in league. At no point in time was Eli Manning EVER top 5 QB. Eli will get in because he won 2 Super Bowls and played a long time. Not because he was actually good.
SerJon Bennett wrong. He was top 5 in 2011, when he won the SB
TheMantisShrimp not necessarily have to be the best but at least a top 5 and in the discussion
TheMantisShrimp he said in the discussion, not THE best QB in the NFL
@@Billuhhanks no he wasn't. 7th in rating and 9th in qbr. Brady, Brees, Romo, Rodgers, Stafford and Matt Ryan had better statistical regular seasons.
I have one criteria for choosing a HOF'er. It goes like this: if you have to think about it they, don't belong in the Hall.
I think the NFL HoF is a combination of longevity of relevance, dominance, and the prestige of accomplishments. That’s how someone like Eli Manning is a hall of Famer. He was in the league for nearly two decades and even was the active Iron Man, which I think is an extremely underrated achievement, he was a good/great QB for most of his Tenure, the face of a franchise for that entire duration, and he won two Super Bowls against what’s universally accepted against the best team of the last two decades. HoF for sure.
(Also Zach Thomas should get in already)
Thanks for being honest and open. It’s an important step to growth
The NFL Hall of Fame is a combination of great players and players with great stories. Great regular season players make it, great playoff players who stink the the regular season make it.
Almost all the time, QBs are MVPs in the Super Bowl. Like 8/10 times, it’s overrated. And he has top 10 stats because the amount of years he has played.
Many, many QBs have played to age 39 and not even come close to Eli's career stats.
Joel Yetz give me 5 names and I’ll look them up. Hopefully they’re starters lol
Ian Jones Eli Manning’s efficiency was garbage. Led the league in turnovers multiple times, and had plenty of mediocre seasons. In fact, without Odell Beckham his career passer rating is barely 80.
ZAC PLEASE REVISIT YOUR FRANK GORE VIDEO!!! I wanna know what your new stance is on him being in the hall of fame
Do y’all think Andre Johnson should be in the HOF? I’m a Texans fan and I think many need to appreciate him more.
Reece2610 absolutely he was a top 10 receiver all time and a fucking beast
Way before Eli
Absolutely dude had everything physically and mentally. He was my favorite wide receiver through the 2000s
I got one for you most underrated rb ever maybe Matt forte look at his numbers
@@jeffscuderi8662 matt forte omg yes when u account his receiving stats yes he was the bears offense. Oh and dont forget Arian foster he didn't last as long but wow he was dynamic too not that long ago
If Tom Brady were on the Giants the last 5 years he wouldn't have done much better
Tom Brady has consistently had one of the strongest teams around him but always gets almost the entirety of the credit. A lot of teams I'm sure play expecting to lose because this narrative has just been built up for the past 20 years how unstoppable and great the Patriots and Brady are.
Idk sterling Shepard,OBJ, evan ingram, and saquon. Throw in brady that sounds like a superbowl tean right there. Eli is a big problem.. but he a HOFER in my opinion
Chris Paul point god this may be true but you also have to remember the coaching staff around them they had Ben Macadoo and shurmer. Also offense isn’t everything. If you remember 2016 when they went to wildcard round they only did cause the defense carried them. Offense was terrible that year. Honestly idk when I got to lol but like the offense isn’t everything and injuries also played into it a lot. None of them where on the field for the same time a lot either
Tom really is EXTREMELY overrated not even very talented he can read defenses well but in terms of arm strength athleticism he has always had a above average oline and receivers except this year of course that's why his numbers dipped
@@Armyjayden33 so you think josh allen is better?
Eli missed the playoffs 10 times in his 16 year career, was never considered an elite QB, led the league in interceptions multiple times and is 12th all time in most interceptions thrown.
He shouldn’t be considered for the HoF at all.
People don’t like to hear that. His efficiency was terrible, and his career passer rating without Odell Beckham barely makes it above 80. Can’t believe this man will be put in the Hall.
“You can’t tell the story without this guy” is a poor excuse
"Being famous is a poor excuse"
He has the resume to get in. That's a combination of stats, accomplishments, legendary stories, and the conduct off and on the filed. And context needs to be applied.
Joseph Cox context does need to be applied. If we applied context, Eli definitely wouldn’t be a HOF’er. His 2 playoff runs doesn’t disqualify the fact that he never won a playoff game in any other year. Or had a .500 record. Or the fact that he was never viewed as a top 10 QB in the league during his time
@@aariesharris7894 His resume has a win against a team that nobody else in the league could beat an undefeated Patriots team. In the first 12 years of his career he accumulated over 100 victories. His two play off runs were on the road so his team had to win extra games. And in those 2 runs his starts are all time great level in the playoffs where it matters most. He is top 7 all time in passing yards touchdowns ECT. And he is a 2 time super bowl MVP and he actually delivered as a #1 over all pick in New York which is the hardest market to play in. Plus the magical moments and he is also in the top 10 for comeback wins ECT. I actually watched this guy play I know what he brought to the table. Those 2 Superbowl the Giants won are thanks to his play through the playoffs. The Giants defence was not as good as people make it seem. Those two super bowls the Giants had no business being in with out Eli's production in the playoffs.it's not his fault the Giants management was a mess the last 6 years. At this rate he will have more Superbowl rings then Rodgers and Russel Wilson, and Matt Ryan and they have had significantly better coaching staffs and players on their teams.
@@aariesharris7894 he was a top ten QB in the league in his career don't let ESPN fool you they and the NFL have been hating on this man his entire career because he is not as good as his brother and he did not want to play for the chargers. Michael Kay in an interview in 2010 just after the season ended asked him on a show called Center Stage if he believed he was a top 10 quarterback. He said yes and the media world through a fit over it and then this man threw 29 TDs and nearly 5000 yards. His team went 9 and 7. As the wild card team meaning every game was on the road he played amazing and won a Superbowl. Don't let main stream media sway your opinion he was better than top 10 for awhile. He had bad teams and bad coordinates and coaches and a GM that refused to give him a line of any sort, and he never bad mouthed any of them total class his entire career.
The argument for “if you weren’t the best at your position then you shouldn’t be a hall of famer” is bullshit, because most people would say Frank Gore was never the BEST back in the league but anyone with football Knowledge knows that gore is a certified hall of famer !!!💯
Gore will get in because of a long career but he was never a difference maker on the field. He's 3 yards and a cloud of dust. Never elite, not a game breaker. Not even when he was young.
Cody R you’re completely wrong
I'm a Brit and we have the philosophy with association football that if a player deserves to be remembered, he will. Thus we don't have a hall of fame and instead just have club legends.
I'm getting the impression that Zac has sleepless nights because of the whole Eli Manning/HoF thing.
Just wait for when Matt Ryan retires with no rings. As a Saints fan, it pains me more and more to see Matty Ice carry that team ever since 28-3.
@@kelvinnguyen7883
He does have Julio.
I agree with you that baseball is a lot easier than football to select for the Hall of Fame. There seems to be a rubric for baseball that gives you at least a certain percentage chance to get in (ie, 3000 hits, 600 hole runs, 300 wins). But even that has fallen by the wayside with steroids, shorter starting pitching stints, etc. Now the argument that mistakes were made in letting some players in is used to justify letting in others with similar stats (and who didn’t piss off the press like Curt Shilling). Football is the ultimate team sport because of the specialization of the positions. Ergo it is hard to choose o line and d lineman, especially before the sack became a stat, for the hall. Truly a conundrum!
I agree. Like look at Brian Urlacher verses Zach Thomas. Urlacher was picked 8th overall, was a prototypical sized linebacker, and put up great numbers; he was a first ballot hall of famer. Zach Thomas has almost identical numbers, he has more tackles, but less sacks, was undersized at the position, and was picked in the 5th round; he just got snubbed from the hall of fame for the 6th time.
SPOT ON. Zach Thomas should have been in years ago. It's shameful
Let's be honest two years ago I would watch anthonio brown play and say damn he has a real chance to be in the hall of fame but now it has gone to 0 percent chance he is going in
To be fair its pretty amazing how badly he screwed himself over lol
Hell be in the hall of fa..ilure...
@@jumblesgaming well now he is
He was on a pretty historic pace with Ben too
Looking now like here are the current QBs that have any shot at getting in
GOAT: Tom Brady
First Ballot: Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers
2nd Ballot: Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan (Has/Will have the stats and the MVP which goes along way)
On the Cusp of HoF: Russell Wilson (Will get in but should be playing at least decade in the League to make next tier) Cam Newton (MVP will go along way, If he can go to a new team and succeed, Canton can be a real possibility but not now at all only thing keeping him here is the MVP)
Fire Starts: Patrick Mahomes ( Likely at a 10 QB all time, has an MVP and SB in first 3 seasons) Lamar Jackson (2nd Season in the league, 1 MVP, has about a 2-3 year window to win a SB and in the meantime can grab another MVP, As long as he says healthy and if he doesn't can rebound and change his game to a more passing QB which I believe he has the potential to do, he does that and has more success. Canton is a real possibility.
I’m just glad my favorite player Kurt Warner got in. He doesn’t have the all time best career stats. He WAS the best QB a number of times. He got a raw deal from the Rams and still came back to lead the Cardinals to almost their first super bowl victory.
The Hall of Fame is a joke. You can't tell me with any level of intelligence that Bill Cowher made it in before Tom Flores. I don't hate Cowher and I don't love Flores, but the NFL has buried that man's legacy straight into the ground.
As long as Ken Anderson is out, I don't want Eli in.
What if instead of the first ballot being 5 years it would be 7 or 10. If it was 10 years all of their colleges would’ve retired, and then you could compare them to the players they played against instead of comparing players from different eras
the stat variation is also quite visible. how does a game winning tackle compare to a goal compared to a last minute save.
@ Eli Manning Mr just above average. But I like the idea of talking about the people who get in
At Eli's peak there were debates on if he was top 5 in the league. Not of all time, but of that year. Not what the Hall of Fame should be.
My only problem is that if we are going to start Making the Hall of Fame more difficult to get into, Then we should also be retroactively removing players from the Hall of Fame who shouldn't have been in in the first place.
disallowing guys like Eli Manning and keep other guys in there who shouldn't be is dumb too
The reality is the Hall of Fame is not as stringent as it once was
Agreed.
But it needs to be better. Allowing Eli in just continues to send the message that mediocrity over a long career is good enough. Not being the best at your position, but winning a few important games, is all you really need. Playing in a big metropolitan and media city counts as a resume builder. Having a famous last name/family is a HOF consideration. You can argue people who are already in the HOF as much as you want. But they are there forever. Mistakes have been made. Our job now is to make less mistakes. Raise the bar. Don’t try to retroactively change history, just stop making dumb mistakes in the first place. Don’t put players in the HOF unless they are truly the best.
@@smequals but my point is that if you are going to start being stringent it's bull crap to allow people to stay in the Hall of Fame who should never have been there and now you're going to start disallowing other players.
I just don't think they should start changing the criteria if they're not going to go back and at least recognize this certain players should not have been in there as well.
Cornsnake 4815 but how do you kick out guys from the HOF? Do you go to their house and take back their Gold Jackets? Do you make their busts just disappear? Do you erase their memories and speeches, Men-In-Black style, and pretend it never happened? Do you tell the fans that their favorite player who was in the HOF is no longer there? To me it is like taking the banners away and erasing the record books like NCAA sometimes does when there is a scandal. I hate that and I think it is dumb. Let’s pretend the team and players never played the game during that period. It’s ridiculous. All that does is dishonors the players involved and craps on those who made the decisions. And having us pretend it never happened, as if we are that dumb ourselves. I care about reality.
What I am saying is that the NFL continues to evolve. What was great 30 years ago would likely not pass for even average today. The responsibility of the HOF is to keep their standards high and it represents the best of the best of the NFL. If that has slipped, we don’t say, “oh well, I guess we accept mediocrity now because we let a few marginal players in the HOF in the past.” No, we make sure the standards are high and we try to be better. We try not to make emotional or biased arguments, and we stay true to what the HOF claims that it is - the best of the best.
Don’t lower standards. Raise them. But you can’t change history. You can only try to make the present and future better.
@@smequals the top thing about especially the Football Hall of Fame is that there is so much variability in the statistics and accomplishments that determine who gets in.
Offensive lineman dont have the notoriety or specific accolades as quarterbacks. Or kickers. Or safety's.
It's so variable.
So I understand the argument for Eli where you are looking at the quarterback Who went on two of the greatest postseason runs toppling the greatest Dynasty at their Peak.
And that is something that will never be forgotten in football and should be recognized.
But it's also just as valid to say to Eli Mannings overall career doesnt warrant the hall.
Ryan still has time...he’s teetering on the edge since he’s 34 and if we can get a competent coaching staff and an average defense we could get back to a SB and win one. Another MVP or All-Pro season wouldn’t hurt either
If he wins a superbowl he'll be a champ with 2 SB appearances, stats, and an MVP definetly enough for HoF, so hopefully he can get that ring and get in th HoF.
How many QBs have multiple SB MVPs? Exactly he's getting in. Not like he's in the top 10 in every stat, 11th in comebacks, and is officially ranked the most clutch QB in the post (with NFL records added).
TheKman1014 he played 16 years. Had a .500 record. Made the playoffs 6 times. Besides the 2 times he won it all, he lost his 1st playoff game every other time. But his surface stats look so good, he’s gonna get rewarded for mediocrity throughout the rest of his career. After all, they got Joe Namath in the HOF off that SB win. But then again, he was good compared to the rest of his QB peers at the time. Eli was a top 10 QB in the league probably once in his career
Aaries Harris he also played on some terrible teams. In 2014 and 2015 he was killing it and they would lose because of the defense. Can't place a team stat on him.
@@TheKman1014 folks love to ignore that about his career. Had a lot of great games squandered by something outside his control.
Joshua Ellis exactly
There's also the likability factor. If the media likes you, it'll help. I hated T.O. when he played. But I respect, the hell outta his game. The fact that he wasn't a 1st ballot, with his #'s and accomplishments... Is a joke! On the other hand. Curtis Martin has the #'s, but always truck me as JAG. Even when he led the league in rushing. I would've rather had LT, Lewis, Holmes, or Alexander. Why did Jimmy Johnson wait so long, but Dungy got in so quick? TD has a losing playoff record, for God sakes.
emmit brown 100% true
Stats in baseball show skill and mainly skill. If you aren’t fundamentally a good hitter you won’t have good stats. But I’m the NFL you can be fundamentally bad QB and put up fantastic numbers because of how good your team is. NFL stats aren’t personal, they are directly tied to the performance of other players, baseball and basketball aren’t really like that except for a new stats.
Eli Manning is a very debatable decision even though his best season was in 2011 it still is had to forget the amount of bone-headed plays he made but you can also make an argument for the number of clutch moments he had. It is also very hard to make a case for guys like Aaron Rodgers who had very good numbers in the regular season but are not always consistent in the playoffs and tend to do too much when it matters most.
There is no standard. Because the NFL see’s it as an opportunity to make money. The more eyes on it, the better. So, everyone that can brings attention to the HOF, get’s in.
Biggie Smalls got into the ROCK AND ROLL hall of fame so it could be worse Zac. At least the football hall of fame isn't letting hockey players in or something similar.
I like a lot of your points. I think to be eligible a player should have to be first or second team AP all pro for at least 5 years of your career. It’s a quantifiable measure given to elite players, not just a pro bowl birth that’s given to half of the league it seems now. It also displays longevity to be more than a flash in the pan. Then super bowl titles and awards can be considered from there.
Only point I disagree with is saying that the NFL would never let Michael Vick into the hall of fame or it would make them look bad. I think if the NFL was concerned about being associated with Vick’s past crimes they would never have given him a second chance to play with the Eagles, or further opportunities with the jets and Steelers. He won comeback player of the year; That’s the ultimate story of redemption. If anything, Vick is the hall of fame example that someone can make a mistake, learn from their past, and redeem themselves in the league. Couple that with his impact on the mobile quarterback in today’s league and I think you have a justified example for a hall of famer
That only compares you to players who played while you played. You may not be able to win AP against the competition you played against but you could still be better than someone who made the Hall competing against weaker competition.
I feel like the NFL has always been a film and highlight reel sport than a statistical sport to begin with. I don't really know any player that has gone into the Hall of Fame or became the MVP based on stats. Sure stats are evident but only because those players are so dominant. It's more so the amount of times they changed the outcome of a contest on their own and how important those particular games were.
Eli is Joe Flacco but better durability. Hes not a HoFer
If Eli gets in Cunningham should get in
Remember it is the hall of FAME not the hall of great players. Being a great player gives you fame that helps you get in but there is more to it. A lot of people think that Joe Namath doesn't make it in if he doesn't guarantee victory is SB 3. One completely non football moment followed by what he did in one game put him in.
Listen if Eli Manning's last name wasn't Manning he would get in a lot easier
If Eli's last name wasn't Manning, he possibly would have been dropped after 2013
@@SaintJames012 Eli never played particularly well to begin with though yes that year was abnormally bad but that's the thing it was abnormal. I don't know what the free agency looked like at that time but if they couldn't get a consistent veteran which I doubt they could there was no point in cutting him
1-2 Acolades should not be enough to be in the Hall of Fame. The only thing that should matter are all pros, this shows how long a player was elite in the league.
All Pros don't show how you stack up against players at your position from different eras who may have made the HoF.
Also the goal is to win the SB. All Pros are regular season accolades only. Let's say for 13 years you made a bunch of All Pros and even won an MVP. But you came up small in the playoffs just as consistently as you were amazing in the regular season.
What was your actual value? What did you do in this ultimate team sport besides accumulate personal stats and what is the value of that vs making clutch plays when it matters most on the way winning a SB and being the MVP of that SB?
2:48 “Dog fighting will keep Vick out of the Hall of Fame” ...OJ Simpson is in the Hall of fame...
OJ Simpson was also without a doubt the best running back if his era, on top of that he was inducted into the HoF long before he was on trial for murder...
I don't really think there should be a hall of fame. It doesn't really add anything to me.
@Ian Jones true it means more to them
It's pretty simple, if you have to debate about the player being in the hall. Then he doesn't deserve to be in the hall.
If his name was Nick Manning instead of Nick Foles he would be a Hall of Famer.
Matt that’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard
@@GiantsFan1734 Why is it stupid? Nick Foles is a Super Bowl MVP, outplaying Brady, with a higher winning % and a higher career winning% and QB rating than Eli Manning. Foles just wasn't given the same opportunities because his name is Nick Foles and not Nick Manning.
Remember the "story of Eli" Eli REFUSING to play for the team like he drafted for like a spoiled brat?
I think Vick is getting in
You shouldn't have let the dislikes get you man. You were the right the first time l. Eli Manning is not a hall of famer You had prime time Deon Sanders agreeing with you!
Do you think Peyton should/will be a first ballot HOFer?
dielegendelebt1900 he will be 100%
Oh yeah he should be first ballot HOFer and I think it should be close
dielegendelebt1900 what kind of idiotic question is that lmao oh and bronco fans can’t claim manning he’s a colt 😂
@@b-train6362 Yeah he is more a Colt than a Bronco, but i'm glad he helped us and we helped him to get that ring! Some people keep telling me that Peyton was overrated and he should not be first ballot.
Yes he should
It’ll never work because of the biased writers that vote. The fact that TO wasn’t a first ballot hof is one of the biggest cases. That man retired being unquestionably a top 5 receiver ever and you can make a real strong argument that he’s 2nd ever. But those writers are petty and if they don’t like you as a person they won’t vote you in
And then the nfl slapped him in the face again by not putting him on the 100 team if you can name 5 better receivers not named rice or moss I’d love to hear that bullshit
first, ps love your vidz
Eli Manning isn't an HoF by any stretch. He was never a top 5 player at the position at any point in his career. 2 great runs in your career does not make you a HoF.
His records are for playing well/decent for a very long time in a pass happy league. He is not a prime time, von Miller, Aaron Rodgers, Adrian Peterson, Russel Wilson, Luke Keuchly, Ray Lewis etc type of player.
Nobody and I mean NOBODY went into a game afraid of Eli Manning. No defensive coordinator lost sleep because they had to stop him. How tf can he be an Hof? The fact that this is even an argument is a travesty. The HoF is for the most dominant players of an era.
No that's not what the HoF is for. It's the hall of famous dude. Anyone who's popular and played half decently gets in. It's sad but it's the way it goes.
Eli Manning was top and his position in the 2008 season when they went 12 and 4 best team in the lead could have made another Super Bowl run but Prosecco shot himself in the leg
@@Spartan265 triggered Eli Manning haters iconic😂😂
@@michael_2xx408 in 2008 he was 19th in completion percentage, 17th in yards, 11th in tds, 15th in passer rating and 12th in qbr.
He did have a good season
60% 3200yds 21tds 10 ints.
For comparison
Drew Brees
65% 5100 yd 34tds 17ints
Matt Cassel
63% 3700yds 21tds 11ints
Peyton Manning
67% 4000yds 27tds 12ints
Kurt Warner
67% 4600yds 30tds 14ints
Chad Pennington
67% 3700yds 19tds 7ints
Aaron Rodgers
64% 4000yds 28tds 13ints
Phillip Rivers
65% 4000yds 34tds 11ints
Eli Manning, even in his best seasons, was nothing more than a good quarterback.
Zac, it sounds like the Eli debate broke you. First you said no, then you said yes, and now you’re just letting it be what it is. And that’s honest. Halls of Fame, and most awards or honors, are a seemingly endless source of frustration and debate. I could go on and on about the Rock and Roll HOF and the Grammy Awards, but this is a sports show so I’ll stick to that. I get how you reached this conclusion, but the name of your show is Strong Opinion Sports. Sounds like you no longer have a strong opinion about this topic. You gave up. I was disappointed to hear that. I respect you for being thoughtful, but I hope you don’t take this position in the future on the tough questions. Well, you sure can, it’s your show, but I would hope that if you do, you consider changing the name of your show to something like, “Thoughtfully Fluid Opinion Sports”. Less catchy but more accurate.
I feel like certain positions are not valued enough, especially FB. Will a pure blocking full back get into the HOF? Most likely not. Even Lerenzo Neal, arguably the best blocking full back we have ever seen said himself that he might ever make it to the HOF
#JusticeForJohnLynch
Eli Manning missed the playoffs 10/16 years he played, how is that a hall of fame career? Stories don’t matter in modern times.
Ken Anderson was a far better QB than Eli, quality-wise. Especially taking into account how football was played in the 70-80s, and he is not in the HoF.
He had shitty teams around them. How is that Eli's fault?
Ian Jones Like who lol????
Ian Jones I’m still waiting lol, name em?
Eli is not a HOF quarterback. Even Giants fans know better. Never did the opposing team fear Eli. That's what HOF do, intimidate and perform at the highest of levels. Now does that sound like Eli to you? Get real
But... I think it's good that it's not entirely formulaic and stat-based.
If there's a year where there's no hall of fame's. Then there's no hall of famers that year.
Even though im being a bit biased it's a shame tom flores probably wont be in the hall of fame till he passes away like stabler .
If Eli played for a team that didn't waste first round picks he would have been alot better. He made dudes like manningham and steve smith not sr, Hixon, Boss, Toomer and had one hit wonders at rb. Eli beat the patriots twice in sb and got mvp both times. Those playoff runs were arguably two of the goats. All I'm saying is if you swap eli with almost any team that had a great o line and a wr he's better. Imagine him with ray rice, smith sr or boldin and that ravens defense. Your talking about either the Pat's winning it all or the ravens. Eli gets all this flack for the way the organization handled drafts and trades.
Sorry. Cant forget about undrafted free agent Victor Cruz.
Any QB on the giants in the past like 5 years would be trash let's be honest, Eli manning is very talented and an overall great QB who led his team for years and got 2 superbowls against a super team.
Matt Ryan is a Hall of Famer
Eli it`s a hall of Famer cuz it`s the best underdog story in the superbowl era
Nick foles?
JAMES HARDEN 3time dpoy naw Eli
Thought this was a no spin zone ... Eli is not a hall of famer. Not on paper , not by eye ball. Longevity does not mean greatness. He is in the hall of just above average. Stop it
I swear to god if you say something about Eli
If he were African we wouldnt be debating this
Because Eli is the thumbnail, he has story and stats so he is undoubtedly a hall of famer
No
@@hyson727 1st ballot, dumbass. 1 of 5 guys in the history of the league with 2+SBMVPS. Thats all he needs
@@sugaashow hes won as many games as he lost in his career as a starter 117-117
@@Bbbmurr google joe namath's career record and keep that same energy, because i know u low iq fans dont have a clue lol. While youre at it google Eli's postseason record. Maybe youll find that hes also top ten in yards and touchdowns.
@@Bbbmurr
Also Google Warren Moons record.
Eli was some shit for most of the time, if he goes in it’s a slippery slope
Eli...... just doesn't have the stats and the selling fake " game worn " jerseys doesn't help his cause
Ken Anderson cant get in but Eli Manning will because he was on a better team. Crazy.
Eli will get in due to the 2 super bowls
Yet, Eli is *NOT* a HOFer
This is precisely why I feel the same way about it, what's the standard? Why is it always changing?.....makes it hard to care as a fan.
Now eventually as a league historian it may be cool to look back on
It's the Hall of Fame...not Hall of Great Stats.
Come on now only 1% of all football players ever are in the football hall of fame it’s not that it’s hard to get into so y’all need to chill
Ok to me if you have to think about not hall of fame let’s go to modern times easy to do people still playing you tell me hall of fame Tom Brady hall Aaron Rodgers hall Larry Fitzgerald hall Adrian Peterson hall Von Miller hall khali Mack hall Big Ben hall going to recently retired peyton hall Eli sorry is hall to me Phillip rivers no carton Palmer no
You are being to hard on Eli how is he suppose to be the greatest quarterback of his era when the greatest player of all time in his era is a quarterback for Eli to be the greatest quarterback of his time he would have to be the greatest player of all time. Eli had to play with drew brees, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady he also had to deal with the Giants, not a very good organization
Eli was never once considered a top 5 QB throughout his career and led the league in interceptions 3 times. The Giants are a good organization, they've made it to the super bowl and won in each of the past 4 decades, that's consistent competence.
@@GHOSTY345 you have good arguments but 2 of the Superbowls was Eli Manning's and he is the only reason Tom Brady hasn't won all of his Superbowls the past years he was riddled with one of the worst teams in the NFL I am saying they are a bad organization now most of his interceptions is because of his terrible offensive lines
I don’t think we are being hard on Eli. We’re evaluating him for the Hall Of Fame. Which is the place where we honor the best players of all time. If Eli played with the best of all time and didn’t rise to that level, then he’s not one of the best all time. It’s really pretty simple. He had a very good career and got paid like he was an elite quarterback, but he really was pretty good and he did that for a very long time. That’s a good career and let’s praise him for his time and service, and entertainment. Which we have done, no doubt. But Canton does not need to call. That doesn’t diminish his career. The HOF is not perfect by any means, but the least we can do is attempt to keep the standards high.
@@smequals he beat the greatest of all time on the biggest stage
@@GHOSTY345 first of all Brett Favre led the lead in interceptions to
Also Eli Manning was top and his position in the 2008 season when they went 12 and 4 best team in the lead could have made another Super Bowl run but Prosecco shot himself in the leg
Eli lead the league in ints multiple seasons, has gone on multiple playoff droughts after winning his two superbowls and it took him until his last game to be a .500 w/l quarterback. most overrated career of all time.
“Ppl say”??? YOU said that lol
I think the Eli was never the best qb argument is dumb that’s like saying Clyde drexler shouldn’t be in the hof because he was never the best sg in the nba Eli and Clyde both played while the goat of those sports were playing
Frank Gore. HoF or No?
Vick will be in the HOF after this decade 2030 earliest. That's enough time for the current "gate keepers" to pass and the ppl who faced vick or covered him can vote
Why would you even want Vick in the hall of fame???? Also by what measure is he even close to being a hall of famer?
@@GHOSTY345 vick is a 1 of 1. He had the talent? Why should off the field keep players from the hall?
@@kb24shortoreo21 Talent does not a hall of famer make at all. If a player raped and murdered a child (as an extreme example) they shouldn't be allowed into the hall, there's a certain integrity that needs to be upheld. Statistically speaking he's not even close to being a hall of famer, accomplishments is another big nope. 1 of 1? Ever heard of Colin Kaepernick or Lamar Jackson? Is Kaepernick a hall of famer to you? He at least made a super bowl? So I'll ask again, but what measure is Vick even close to being a hall of famer?
Statistics - No
Accomplishments - No
Uniqueness - He was unique but lets not act like we haven't seen anything like him (see above).
@@GHOSTY345 vick had success before and after prison and is still demonstrating how 1 messup doesn't define you. There would be no Lamar or colin or Taysom hill or any 4.3 running qbs if vick didnt show that. 1st qb to rush for 1000. I'm from GA and his Impact is why Russell Wilson Lamar Colin Mariota dak josh allen get looked at. He transformed the position. You cant talk about 2000s football with mentioning his name. Also OJ still in the HOF ray rice records still stand etc..
Gale sayers played 7 years he a HOF. Terrell Davis played 4 years and he a HOFer
You need influence, accomplishments and stats. E. Manning only has the one in the middle. Jim Plunkett also won 2 Superbowls, and is not in the HoF. Case closed IMO.
Eli has all will be in hof plunkett has only that he is a journeyman qb
Same as namath
And maybe Bradshaw as much as I like him
Funny thing about Matt Ryan. He has 4 Pro Bowls and was the NFL MVP in 2016. He has made it to one Super Bowl, and should have won it, but it turned into the biggest comeback in Super Bowl history and another ring for Brady. The emotional argument is that Matt Ryan is not a HOF’er because he didn’t win. But if Eli Manning is one, Matt Ryan must be one. Matt Ryan has at least been in the conversation as being one of the best quarterbacks in his generation for a least a short amount of time. You don’t get a league MVP for being mediocre for 16 years, but you do for being the best player in the league for one. I put Matt Ryan right in the conversation with Eli, and Ryan likely has some time to improve on his legacy. Ryan has a very good chance of passing Eli in career stats. I think Ryan has a good chance in the next 3 years to have a clearly stronger HOF resume than Eli, even if he doesn’t play another playoff game, much less a Super Bowl.
That said, is Matt Ryan an NFL Hall of Famer in my (strong) opinion? No. Not at this time. But I think his case is actually a bit stronger than Eli’s, even without the Super Bowl MVP’s that Eli has. Ryan is/was just a better quarterback. And if we are going to say Eli is a HOF’er, Ryan has to be one.
Triggered Falcon fans😂😂
@@smequals Eli Manning was top and his position in the 2008 season when they went 12 and 4 best team in the lead could have made another Super Bowl run but Prosecco shot himself in the leg
michael _2xx I’m not a Falcons fan. I am not advocating for Matt Ryan to be in the HOF. I think if Eli is in the discussion, Matt Ryan should be too, as he has a slightly better case.
michael _2xx in 2008 there were at least 5 QB’s better than him in the regular season. If his greater success was dependent upon one bonehead receiver, the argument is done. Eli was irrelevant.
Kurt Warner (Story + 1SB)👎🏾
“Matt Ryan isn’t a hall of famer” lol Matty and Julio have been carrying the falcons for years
Yep the Falcons wouldn't have ever made it to a SuperBowl without Ryan and Julio and may have made it to 1 or 2 playoffs if at all without them
I live in the UK and watch a lot of the NFL. Can someone explain something which I've been wondering about for a few years now. My sport is Rugby League (a derivative of Union played with 13 men instead of 15). Like all collision sports it has instituted a raft of concussion protocols in the wake of the NFL's looming CTE crisis. Also, the sport has clamped down hard on hits close to or above the shoulders - especially since league players wear no head protection. It's changed the game (some think not for the better) - but we had to address safety because players were hitting harder and more often. But head shots aren't the only concern in league. Over the last decade we have really clamped down on aggressive wrestling-style moves which seek to attack the knees, elbows and ankles. Here's the thing - if you were to ask any player in a collision sport which injury they would "prefer" to suffer I'm willing to bet most would cop a heat shot before someone attacking their knees or ankles. Especially since potentially career-ending ACL and Achilles injuries are becoming more and more prevalent. And yet when I watch the NFL I see guys deliberately targeting the standing leg all the time. Or hyperextending the elbow and shoulder (known as a "chickenwing tackle") Are there rules in place to stop this? Are the referees not enforcing them? How is this allowed to continue??
the thing is you can go on whit your life after a bad knee injury you can still be a tv commenter or simply go on whit your life, but whit CTE you are done, people became suicidal or worst like Aron Hernandez, Antonio Brown, etc. I'm not saying it`s perfect but that's what I think this is not that "important" when your an athlete injury is just part of the job description but CTE is just scary cuz it`s not a career-ending injury it`s a life-ending injury
@@psychokrusherstudios1457 I see what you are saying - but I'm pretty sure that if you were to poll a hundred NFL players about whether they'd prefer to take a headshot and roll the dice on the possibility that they might develop complications in their post-career or having somone attack their knee and risk ending their career in the only profession they know anything about (not to mention draw a line under the income which they use to support not just their wives and children - but extended family also) they'd choose the former in most cases.
I'm not suggesting for a moment that we should tolerate hits to the head. But I find it somewhat cynical that the NFL is prepared to protect the health of players on an issue which they have a vested interest in not being considered liable for in the civil courts (to the tune of several hundred million dollars in class-action lawsuits) whilst they don't seem to have any problem with players *deliberately* targetting an opponent's joints in an attempt to put them out of the game (or even out of the league full stop).
Eli Manning is not a hall of fame QB. He was never considered the best. He has a .500 record as a starter.
Joe Namath was the first....definitely not a HOF worthy QB...Hall of Famous for sure though
GnRmike exactly!!! He’s a below average QB who won 1 important game and was carried by his defense. If he didn’t win SB3 after guaranteeing it, he would be nowhere near the HoF
Jay Cutler > Joe Namath
THAT'S RIGHT I SAID IT
When he said it requires story to get into the nfl is the sad part (kind of). I feel like it might make players act out then try to still have a record breaking career. Idk
Eli will only get in because of his last name. Damn shame
If you can come up with any argument in terms of their on the field play, for why they might not be a HOF, then they arent worty. The HOF should be for the guys that are undoubtedly great.
Then we should also start retroactively removing people from the Hall of Fame who shouldn't have been there in the first place.
Undoubtedly great at what though? Filling a regular season stat sheet? Winning with bad teams? Winning with great teams and great coaching?
Eli doesnt deserve to get in even on his 3rd year of eligibility. They made Terrell Owens wait 3 years. If Eli gets in within his 3rd year then we should all boycott the Hall of Fame
Terrell Owens isn't that great. A 3-year wait sounds about right...probably should be 4 or 5 year wait. Eli should get in the Hall on his last year of eligibility...if there's room.
Zac is about to flip flop again, Eli isn't a hofer, Eli is a hofer, back to his original view that Eli isnt a hofer. Strong flip flopping sports. 😂 Instead of bowing to pressure from a fan base how about sticking with your original opinion so it won't get you down? You can't and don't have to please everyone.
Eli Manning was never a top ten QB in any year of his career.
Of course Eli wasn't ever considered the best QB in the NFL. Eli competed against Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, 2 HOF QB's and record setting QB's perennially. You sound really silly. Eli is elite. Name another QB who beat Favre,Rodgers,Brady and has 2 rings.
Can we get some more examples of players "stories" getting them inducted into he Hall of Fame? Because this has only really been a big issue the past couple weeks arguing about Eli Manning.