I think D&C 76: 112,113 pretty much puts the nail in the coffin on your subject of not everyone going to the celestial kingdom. How can this be refuted?
"Watch her's before you watch this." -last three seconds of the video. You probably mentioned it earlier, and I was distracted, thinking of something else. Still, its funny.
Pres. Nelson in his YSA devotional of May 2022 seems to put an end to the debate. “During this life we get to choose which laws we are willing to obey-those of the celestial kingdom, or the terrestrial, or the telestial-and, therefore, in which kingdom of glory we will live forever.”
Pres. Nelson is absolutely correct, but I think the interpretation of it is a bit simplistic. What of those who never knew of Christ or His laws? The child that dies in infancy? The woman living in 10th century China? They don't exactly have the time or knowledge to choose which laws they are willing to obey for it was never presented to them in this life. Does God just sort of short-circuit their decision, claiming since He knew what they would have done if given the opportunity, He can now rightfully assign them to a kingdom? Seems a bit unfair. We live in the fullness of time and are therefore able to make a clear choice. Not so for the vast majority of God's children. I trust He has a means of working it all out, which implies it is after this earthly life.
Eternity for ever is a long time. I believe in eternal increase of learning and progressing for ever. I believe the choice of “glory” each of us may choose is a starting point… actually that starting point has already begun in our pre-mortality. D&C 88 is a great trigger-for-thought resource. There are many, so many that each of us can have His Her own.
@@moneymcr perhaps our choices before we came to earth also play a part in our final inheritance. We know that we had agency in the preexistence and it played a part in our place and time on earth.
@@teresalane1004 Good point. That would then imply “this life (and our pre-mortal life) is the time to choose eternal life.” Could that then extend to our post-earth life?
Our daughter is currently serving he mission in Reno Nevada. She was doing a lot on Facebook in the beginning but her mission president banned Facebook because it wasn't affective and the missionaries were waisting too much time. My daughter told me recently that baptisms have increased significantly since they quit using Facebook.
Hardly anyone uses Facebook anymore. The Church activity avoided FB and discouraged Wards and Stakes from using it when people were really engaging on it. The Church pushed their app Circles and tried to get people to switch to using that.
This is so good, modern day Nehors! People are falling for the idea that they can all be saved because it’s easy and they don’t need to be accountable.
I suggest you listen to what Connor presents. Because even Bro Palmer I think may have misunderstood. Accountability or the lack thereof has nothing to do with it. Ask yourself honestly, in the open and in private, where are you with your own personal honest truth search and acting upon? Where are you with the flock of the 100 sheep? Are you lost or are you one of the 99, supposedly safe, the the shepherd left out in the open by themselves to look for the one supposedly that is lost? I know that parable has been misconstrued and misinterpreted or misused for its purpose since the savior talked about the worth of everyone, that every one matters (he was sitting and eating with the sinner)... I too feel more comfortable sitting and eating with the sinners because they are just more honest than those that profess they know Nehor except they haven't seen their own Nehor (or Korihor) in themselves [yet]. We are just critically examining here... I am not saying "you are" - I consider myself lost and I can't fathom how I could ever make it whatever 'they' may have painted or mispainted (I really want to see the highest increasing glory of course)... before I can develop a desire to even wanting to be there. So I am hoping that whatever Jesus will have in store for my miserable self, it will be a continuous opportunity to grow eternally closer to Him and His Father inch by inch.... I just know this, if I was sure of my exalting status, I would have failed it already the very moment I would consider myself being better than Nehor or Korihor, or Alma the Younger when he was that trouble maker, etc... I think it is a good idea to walk and eat and sit with the sinners.
Yes we will all be exalted. Not the way the Nehors believe. They didn't believe in repentance. U mentioned that people believe this because it's easy and you don't need to be accountable. 1st. Who told you it has to be hard? I had a little brother that drowned at 18 months. Free pass for him, isn't that easy? How about being born during the millennium, I assume you know that everyone that makes it into the millennium receives the Cel. K. Being born during that time sounds easy enough. I could go on and on but you get my point. 2nd doesn't require accountability? I don't follow, if one combines accountability with JC's atonement I don't see why being exalted excludes being accountable. We will be exalted because God so wills it. My Dad doesn't make no junk. If He did He would cease to be God. Don't worry, He's been doing this for a long time, I have perfect confidence in Him. JS in the ? Says that in order to have faith unto salvation a man must have a correct understanding of the true nature and character of God. Perhaps what separates our 2 perspectives is that I believe in a omniscient all powerful God. One who doesn't see a conflict between agency and His ability to obtain his will in all things. Luv ya, I think we are standing on the edge of knowing how He will do it.
This question was brought up in a gospel doctrine class in a ward in Florida. I was very surprised at the person asking the question as she and her husband were stalwart members having served in many different callings. She said she had heard that if we went to the Telestial kingdom we could work up to the Terrestrial kingdom by good works and then eventually make it to the Celestial. The teacher didn't know the answer and so put it to a person that was recently released as the temple president. I was amazed at the answer because he didn't know the actual answer. Then another person tried to answer saying that yes, we would progress in those kingdoms and go to the next kingdom through our good works. My head was ready to explode as Satan had somehow gotten this false doctrine into the church. So I put my hand up and I know I was a bit forceful with the answer but let the class know that that was not the case. I opened up to the Doctrine and Covenants 76 and just read about those that enter into the Telestial kingdom. Starting at verse 109 and ending at verse 112 that says, "And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end." It's such a simple thing to understand according to the scriptures and yet Satan still gets in there somehow with his false teachings.
@@watcherpalmerldsUltimately, the church’s official position in regards to the possibility of progression between kingdoms is that it has no official doctrine on the matter. Unless a new and official statement or declaration (not just some well thought out and argued opinion) has come out since 1965 the church’s official statement reads; Secretary to the first presidency in a 1952 letter and again in 1965 “The brethren have directed me to say that the church has never announced a definite doctrine upon this point. Some of the brethren have have held the view that it was possible in the course of progression to advance from one glory to another, invoking the principle of eternal progression, others of the brethren have taken the opposite view. But as stated the church has never announced a definitive doctrine on this point.” So it is not as cut and dried as you would like it to be. Some thoughts I have concerning this matter are; 1) For what reason are celestial beings permitted to minister to the Terrestrial kingdom, and Terrestrial beings permitted to minister to the Telestial kingdom? 2) Listen closely to the King Follett discourse by Joseph Smith. 3) In a talk given by Jeffery Holland, Be ye therefore perfect, he states “if we persevere then somewhere in the eternities our refinement will be finished and complete” “I testify of that grand destiny made possible to us through the atonement of Jesus Christ, who himself continued grace to grace until in mortality he received a perfect fullness of celestial glory” 4) The depth, width, size and scope of the eternal atonement of our Savior Jesus Christ is the least understood pillar of salvation for all who accept and love the Lord. It is far greater than we can fathom.
@@markturner5207 I believe scripture is clear. I also believe, that if everyone eventually “makes it”, there is no agency of man. That my friend is a scary thought.
@@watcherpalmerlds I understand the thought of eternal progression is frightening, I also understand you have been taught these very cultural principles your entire life and the thought of non member gentiles someday in the eternities, through the strength of their family, their righteous desires, their love of the Savior and above all his eternal purifying atonement being able to be where God dwells seems unfair and just not right. In humility try to look through the lens of Gods love for ALL of his children. If you had a child that was repentant and had suffered for their own sins and desired more than anything to be with you, what would you do, say sorry, but for all eternity you can never be with me, never? I do not worship that God. Gods plan of happiness is for all, even the sinner on the cross next to Jesus, not just members of the church and just like in this mortal life the Lord meets us where we are, to help, bless, guide, forgive, heal and literally take us by the hand, doing all things in his power respecting our agency, why would that stop in the next life? It makes reason stare.
R U aware that "worlds without end" is one of JC's names? The Hebrews even have a festival called that. Read D&C 18:35 take a couple of humility pills and consider backing off the attitude that's it's so simple and at the same time examine what spirit U were responding to when you said ur head was about to explode. I never feel anything but luv and tolerance when talking about the gospel. Agency demands we all figure these things out on our own timeline
Doesn’t the idea that we will all receive celestial glory eventually because it is what our Father desires sound a lot like Lucifer’s plan? I’m with you brother Palmer 100%.
sort of, but a huge part of Satan's plan was that he wanted all of the glory for himself, and in his plan, none of us would have to do the work or struggle.
No, not really. Forcing us into a kingdom not of our choosing would be contrary to the nature of God. Desiring all of his children to receive exaltation sounds like a loving Heavenly Father. We do believe in eternal progression. Damnation, or the inability and unavailabilty to progress, is reserved for those who choose Satan. The question is can one progress from kingdom to kingdom. The church has taken no official stance on this doctrine. We can have our own ideas or preferences but until God reveals it, they are just man's theories.
“I am with you…” - it is what it is, opinions and what I may believe or the prophet etc, is all irrelevant. Judgement rendered “i will make it and you they etc won’t…” is the gull of judgement evil. I heard “them” plenty praising themselves of how good “they” are. I like what Thomas the Apostle did - he was critically examining and asking good questions, one of which lead to the Savior’s answer “I am the Way”. D&C 88 is a great resource to ponder b about. whether someone is right or wrong is irrelevant because we don’t know except that He is the Way. That is the sure stuff.
Joseph Smith on the bible- you said “inspired version..” sure true but a better source to ponder is D&C 88 at least for me it gave me a break through at 45 - 60 approx. back to everything that’s in and from the new testament especially: in 325 AD the Emperor Constantine made himself pope and call the council of Neacea or Nicea … that event was politically motivated and to usurp power and control, not out of his good repenting heart to follow christ. So in my opinion you can’t really believe anything out of that book without the HUGE grain of salt. The Bible is opposite motive of what the book of mormon is. Plus the bibliographers of the bible was that council of necea and of the book of mormon was General Dr Dr Professor Mormon, Dean of Historic Research Department of Theology and The Department of Truth and Restorations. The endowment information in the book of mormon is absolutely more clear. The Bible I have to always read with this question in the back of my mind “what’s in it for Constantine?”
Pres. Spencer W. Kimball told a story of a newlywed couple who chose to not be married in the Temple, and would be sealed later, then they were in a tragic auto-accident where one (or both) were killed. Kimball said they knowingly chose to not be sealed in sacred ordinances of the Temple. If I know true and correct principles and choose not to comply or obey, I am making choices that will affect my eternities. D&C 76, that you reference, is clear! Those valiant in their testimony of Jesus are heirs of Celestial Glory. Choices, thoughts and agency become our character. Also many Apostles frim Talmage, L Richards, M. Peterson to Dallin Oaks cite other sources in their books from early reformers, Renassiance philosophers, Columbus, 2rd and 5th Century thinkers, etc. How does one write about the Apostasy without these past sources/ authors? You are teaching truth!
D&C 109:7 indicates that we should be seeking light and knowledge from all good sources. “And as all have not faith, seek ye diligently and teach one another words of wisdom; yea, seek ye out of the best books words of wisdom, seek learning even by study and also by faith;” Also, Moroni 7:16 “For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.”
I feel the judgement given to each individually by each our own lord of the vineyard is far more generous than what anyone can fathom. If I make it, wherever that may be, and whatever that is, seems to be so far-fetched and out of my comprehension... I need just baby-steps. I can't fathom where I should want to go. Why wanting to go to a place that I cannot comprehend? I can comprehend happiness and peace, and I know that I am sick and tired of stigma and false doctrine, and the lack of fellowship between people - members in my ward. If I have to be alone, then I rather be alone by myself and not going to the church where everyone professes fellowship one with another fellow citizen in Christ, but their heart is far away? Too much judgement rendered, to those that explore and inquire; If you ask questions you push the boundaries of acceptability... The apostle Thomas is even today judged "Doubting Thomas" - what an injustice. He was nothing like that. We have very little scripture of him, but the little we have points to an inquisitive faithful man who sought truth through faith and justice. Jesus showed his wounds to the apostles that fearfully locked themselves into a room fearing persecution, instead of Thomas who was out and about doing whatever- we really don't know. Jesus told the apostles to put their hands into His side, while Thomas refused to believe and then asked, and after faith for 8 days, Jesus came again and then Thomas received the fulfilling of His Faith and Hope the get that what Jesus freely gave to the other apostles who didn't even ask for it. I want to be like an atheist to do good because it is in my very nature... and yet, I seem to act only when commanded. Do I make sense? It means, 'be good' not because you have been told to be good, but because it is your nature. There is no shame in asking what Thomas asked for, or what Nephi asked for (the Tree of Life - dream etc), or to ask what Joseph Smith asked for, Moses, Brother of Jared, or or or... So, here we are again, even in the Bible the truth is twisted, Thomas' goodness is twisted into "He is a doubting Thomas" - don't be like the doubting Thomas, you don't need to see Christ just believe other people's witness.... I like to know for myself. And frankly, that is why it is so good to discuss here, and listen to provocative thought that we may explore it each for ourselves and know the truth "by the power and gift of Christ..." like you said. I don't necessarily agree Palmer on all of his points. But he makes good points that provoke critical thinking.
"An understanding of God’s fabulous plan takes the mystery out of life and the uncertainty out of our future. It allows each of us to choose how we will live here on earth and where we will live forever. The baseless notion that we should 'eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die; and it shall be well with us' is one of the most absurd lies in the universe." - President Nelson, Think Celestial, October 2023 General Conference
Maybe it's already decided. After all, God knows all things, past, present, and future. Right? What's the use in even trying? Doesn't that take the mystery out of life...? Hypothetically, if you are one of those that already knows, or at least you feel so sure of yourself that "you are going to make it", - and with "YOU" I don't mean you per say, but in general - then where is the effort to care enough to be your brother's keeper and take upon yourself the role of the Shepherd (the Lord), number 1 to prevent the 1 wondering sheep from leaving the flock of 100 in the first place, and #2 why are you, or they, not feeling compelled enough to take the Lord's role and go after the lost sheep themselves? (And why do these people even want to be sheep? I don't). Why does the Savior have to do it? Is that because it is His job, or He is just doing it, because nobody else does? He does say to Simon Peter "fee my sheep". Of course this 1 lost sheep parable by the Savior was in response to "why does he bother eating with the sinners" and His answer was this parable and the coin and the prodigal son - It's about "everyone matters", even if that means to leave the flock out in the open (exposed)... Which some suggest is actually quite reckless, or at least the 99, and everyone always wants to be and thinks they are part of the 99 strong ones remaining in the secure flock among themselves because the Lord trusts them and so leaves them alone... instead I want to be the 1 lost one because at least I will get to explore, and then socialize with the Lord by myself for a while on the way home to the miserable flock that didn't care enough for me (the lost sheep) in the first place, but let's be sure, to acknowledge, they are sure, they are the 99. I don't want to be with the 99, those hypocrites that think they are the 99.... So the question about who will live where, in my fathomable comprehension will most likely be a surprise to many, if not all.
I am with you when it comes to Jonathan Cahn, I truly believe he is inspired, perhaps dare I say a prophet. I do not think he is equal to "the" prophet or any of the apostles. I also do not believe he has the priesthood or any keys (although he could be a Levite), but he could still be a prophet similar to Samual the Lamenite or Robert Mason from early church history that Wilford Woodruff said was a prophet.
I can't tell you how bothered I was the first time I heard this concept. It seems unjust to those who try so hard in this life to live a true pure life to be told it actually DOESN'T matter how hard you try in this life because whenever you decide you want it in the next life God will give it to you. God is just. This life is the life to prove ourselves. Only those who choose to live the doctrine and the covenants get to receive the reward. Thank you for making this video. It was a balm to my soul.
I don’t believe in this false doctrine, but the entire first half of your message sounds very much like the brother of the prodigal sons’ complaint. What happens when someone repents at very last minute and fully accepts the saviors atonement? After all of your life of trying hard that doesn’t seem very fair it does it?
I like this explanation... Alma 34:32 "For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors"
I think that Jared's point was that, when interpreting what the Bible says about the last days, rather than look to interpretations of non LDS sources, or even podcasts from church members, it's best to give more credence to authorized sources. I don't think you can extrapolate that Jared was talking about anything anyone ever said about the Gospel
I did a livestream reaching to the debate, we hit on abortion used as a sacrifice by evil people. In my recent video with Chief Midegah I talked about that again and compared it to Pharaoh calling for children to be put away.
It is my understanding that the resurrection IS the judgement, or rather that they are concurrent with one another. Because, the kind of body we receive (the glory and abilities of our bodies) will correspond with the kingdom we inhabit.
The patriot Nurse..She pointed out that not only are we sacrificing our little ones..we are abusing our elderly population....yes H.B. was an evil man along with his family but abusing yhe elderly on the world stage is despicable..
To say all will make it to the Celestieal kingdom,It's kind of like the born again thing I heard on my mission in New York back in the 80 "saved by grace", however, it has infected the truth 😢 within the church... The old Kingdom jumping. False doctrine.
For as long as I can remember, I've always had warning bells go off in my mind/heart when someone preaches: "All is well in Zion." Moroni 8:24: "And the first fruits of repentance is baptism; and baptism cometh by faith unto the fulfilling the commandments; and the fulfilling the commandments bringeth remission of sins;"
I often think what if a “ Samuel the Lamanite” was speaking? Would I be able to recognize the truth he would speak? I think many can speak of truth and NOT be members. LET THE SPIRIT GUIDE!!!
@Watcher Palmer, I do have a question for you. What do you think of individuals who have a disability? I have been diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome and a form of Autism, and I have had to struggle in life for a lot of things, one of the biggest challenges I have is keeping and finding employment. I am currently unemployed and have been struggling to find another job for almost a year now. I keep praying and having faith that God will bless me with employment, and so do my parents. My wife currently works at McDonald's, but still, she doesn't get paid that much. I feel as though her learning disability and my disability that is a challenge for us. I am hoping that God will bless us with accomplishing the things in this life and I am hoping that we will be able to make it to the Celestial Glory. I know that those who have a disability will be judged differently, but I hope that God will understand that we have tried the best that we can in this life. What is your opinion about those who have a disability? Do you think God will judge those individuals differently?
I believe we are judged individually and the only one we are judged against is ourself. Jobs, income, education level are things we humans can use to compare against each other, but to Heavenly Father those things are not of value or of importance. Just do your best and treat others well. Seek and rely on Christ in all you do💕
Everyone will get on opportunity to return to our Heavenly Parents and Jesus, but no one will be forced, but no unclean thing can enter their presence.
The disciples asked the savior if a blind man was his fault or his parents fault. The Savior said the man was blind for the purpose of giving Glory to God. So you are blessed even though it is difficult to see.
Your faith and belief in Jesus Christ is enough. Be born again. Trust Him and His word. I am an Evangelical Christian, but enjoy this channel. (I hope I will not be run off this channel because I am not LDS?) I will pray for you to find employment. 🙏 God bless you!
I watch as many different sources as I can, in fact my Patriarchal Blessing says that I am to search out as much truth as I can find after I search the scriptures and authorities, plus wherever it can be found. I like the Hebrew scholars and ancient archeologists and science. Many new discoveries are currently happening. Even the science behind the Torah and the Quran is very eye opening.
One of the things i absolutely love about you is that you are willing to seek truth no matter where it comes from. I am LDS but we don't have the market cornered on truth. Imo, Christian Homestead deals with alot of clickbait. You just say what it is. Greatful for that and for you never being afraid to say it like it is. Thank you!
I just finished listening to you and Zoe. Bravo and well done!!! Love seeing the youth rise up and reach their potential that Heavenly Father has set for them. As far as everyone will be saved, I’m seeing a lot of this where I live in WA state. Mostly from parents who have children who have distanced themselves from the church and chosen a different way of life. Let Truth Prevail.
But repentance is possible in the spirit world and who knows how much they understood even if they were raised in the church. Their home life may have had problems not seen from the outside. That's why God is the righteous judge, thank goodness!
Works: We do what we believe. It is not that we are measured by how often or what level of service we provide, but whether Christ's principles rest in our hearts such that we choose to act on those principles when given a choice. The Principle of Progression between kingdoms: I think there are two different concepts working here that are being conflated and causing problems. 1} "Everybody will progress to the Celestial Kingdom, eventually." There are multiple issues with this. The first and major one is that it assumes that everyone wants to. People often assume certain desires are default. During my Mission, people in Brasil were shocked that I did not like Futebol/Soccer/Football. The question was always which team I followed, not if I watched at all. The same was true in the American South, but for American Football. It was always what teams did I support, not if I liked it at all. We assume that everyone would want to be in "Heaven" (The Celestial Kingdom) and not "Hell" (The Others). The Kingdoms is a powerful message because it addresses the dichotomy of how an Eternal Being can condemn some people to an eternal state of torment (Hell). Instead, people are sorted into places with environments that match their desires and the laws they are willing to obey. To that soul, the Kingdom they are sorted into is just right as a Kingdom with higher/lower laws would be torment. But to someone who is willing to live by the higher/lower laws, that Kingdom would look like torture. As such, people already primed for divine revelation are going to see no issues with the Celestial Kingdoms laws and feel that attaining any lesser kingdom is torture. Second, whether movement between Kingdoms is possible. Before you read the next paragraph and declare me "whatever", please read the next three paragraphs. This is an entire thought process wherein it only works when placed together. This is a synergetic result wherein it can not work in stand alone pieces, just like the Plan of Salvation. A truly good and eternal being WOULD create a method for progressing upward in the Kingdoms. A single test in an arbitrary world would be insufficient in ALL cases. To rule that God would only allow once would be to diminish God. Yet, there would need to be a cut-off. The Law of Diminishing Returns notes that at some point, no measurable change will be detected. Eventually, you can determine whether the person tends to prefer Scary movies or Comedies, based on the totality of what they watch. The 1001th movie will not greatly change it. Moreover, the Soul would come to the same realization. Maybe the 3rd or 4th time, the Soul can convince themselves that it would have been different if they had been born in a different place, been richer/poorer, had more/less friends, whatever. Eventually, they realize that their desires and choices will not change regardless of the variable. As such, they accept the degree of glory as a finality, a Final Judgment. Third, the existence of these "retests" could never be confirmed by a person in authority. Human Psychology is such a fickle thing. As long as people have a chance to redo, they rarely put forth 100%. Furthermore, they use it as justification to keep doing poorly. They often justify a lack of studying or trying by saying: they will do better next time, this is their "ditch" attempt, they are allowed a Skip attempt so they will make it this one. All through School and University, I watched this happen. People often wondered why I got to skip the final, but teachers would note that I never missed a test and an F on the final test would still result in me getting an A. If people knew they had multiple chances, most would keep discarding the current test and "go evil", which would invalidate the test and waste everyone's time. Moreover, it would ruin other peoples' tests and imbed bad behaviours and memories in the soul. As such, it becomes psychological necessary that people believe that THIS is the "very last chance". Only then will the truth of our behaviour be illuminated, giving a fair and accurate evaluation of the soul. Not only is this fair from the divine side, but to the Soul. It would be unfair to the soul to declare a judgment accurate if it is based on a Soul that was choosing to "test" out behaving differently. How many Hollywood Actors should be judged differently from the characters they play? Sadly, teaching people this theory is dangerous. People like me can see the totality and use it to explain logical necessity, then still put forth 100% effort. But most people will fall into a lull. This happens with Reincarnation and ALL being saved. It becomes a great tool for the adversary to get people to excuse poor or diminished effort. The reality is: Whether we can move between kingdoms or try again is just a Thought Game. In the end, we need to treat this life as the only chance we have, even if for only ourselves.
Contend without being contentious. Yes! And absolutely much of the time things fall on deaf ears. But I will not stop sharing when the spirit guides me to. Let the scriptures do the talking. Yes! Amen. Agency rules! We mmust live in such a way that we would FEEL comfortable living in the kingdom we desire. Its hard to imagine the Celestial Kingdom so I think that's why so many settle. And tfar too many are choosing the telestial kingdom. Sad. Thank you for this discussion. I've been fed.
I remember Neil Maxwell & Boyd K. Packer quoting from C.S. Lewis often. One of his major warnings was about the infiltration of scholars who embraced the Progressive theology. Men Without Chests and the last book in the Perelandra series. We are now face to face with Woke theology just as they warned.
Any works based salvation is anti Christ. It’s believing WE (not Christ) can save ourselves. Exaltation is based on the level of light, love and truth of Christ that we accept within us and of course emulate out from us.
What about ordinances for the dead? is their work then null and void? Those who might be baptized and sealed etc..."The work will go on until the chain is unbroken" I heard a Bishop say once not going mention his name but he said Sister's who haven't found your husband yet not to worry you will get yours on the other side if necessary... that was back in the 90's. I believe the Savior of the world will provide every opportunity for people to get to where they need to be he knew us before we came here and who we are now and what our circumstances are.
Dead folks that have their temple ordinances done, still have the opportunity to accept those ordinances. There is still no guarantee. I do agree that everyone will get every opportunity. I don’t believe I said anything to the contrary.
Wow just wow thank you for the invite to watch the Zoe utube video it was an outstanding presentation what a brilliant young women thanks again bro Palmer!
Joseph Smith: "Mormonism is truth, in other words the doctrine of the Latter-Day Saints, is truth...The first and fundamental principle of our holy religion is, that we believe that we have a right to embrace all, and every item of truth, without limitation or without being circumscribed or prohibited by the creeds or superstitious notions of men, or by the dominations of one another, when that truth is clearly demonstrated to our minds, and we have the highest degree of evidence of the same.” JS manual, Letter to Isaac Galland, published in the Times and Seasons, Feb. 1840, pp 53-54***
D&C 132 : 16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory. 17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever. *Also see Alma 12.
It's a great advantage to have a Prophet of God to give guidance. I love the talk that President Oaks gave on April 20/21 called Defending Our Divinely Inspired Constitution. I personally recognized a lot of the things that are happening in politics today.
I think a big problem members have is the belief that God will make all things right. The other thing we can get hung up on is that if you teach or train up a child in the way he should go he will not depart from it. Therefore they believe that God will make everything right as they see it.
When the most important thing above all other else is the killing of the most innocent of our society, it just shows how wicked our nation and politicians have become and how far removed we are from God and how ripe we are for destruction. As for everyone reaching the celestial kingdom, it is false. That's why there are 3 different degrees. Also it say every knee shall bow and every tongue acknowledge and confess that Jesus is the Christ. But it doesn't say everyone has to accept him. I've heard it said that everyone will become a Mormon in the millennium, and that's not true either.
We should absolutely listen to and read from many good sources. We then discern what is true and what is not through spiritual guidance and using the scriptures as the standard.
I am certain that the image of "Weeping, Wailing and Gnashing of teeth" describes members of the church who settle. Who chose to obey only the minimal laws and thereby received the glory they chose...being much lower than the one they were expecting.
We are told to study from the best books. Our authorities get their learning from outside sources even Joseph Smith. Church sources also contradict sometimes because of opinions. We learn line upon line, studying it out helps us get closer to the truth and if we limit ourselves then our hearts and minds are never prepared for more, we simply isolate and perpetuate a generation of understanding which was not prepared for more.
I think if you are at the pulpit...stick with true principles and true doctrine...and your testimony of the Living Christ. I think wards who assign conference talks in Sac. Mtg dont trust the members to pull together a talk for the edification of both the giver and the reciever. Just comment on a talk we can all access..have already heard...and get more of that in RS/EQ....it resonates to me the members are spiritually lazy and have to rely on someone elses experience with inspiration from The Holy Ghost. Dont use your own experiences by all means! 😅..last Sunday a sister spoke and apoligised that she was going to deviate from the conf. talk assigned and told her amazing conversion story. So powerful. She went rogue and it was so refreshing!
I made a complaint once about my child's seminary teacher who wanted to bring teachings from 20th century "gurus" whom she thought were "good" people - but if she had done a little research she would have found out they were not on the Lord's team. That teacher was released from her calling. When teaching the gospel in a calling - other sources should not be used as the major source material... there is enough church material to give the message.
@@GAILandROD - I'm sure training works with some, but this one was a crazy lady. I didn't ask for her release, just that doctrine is taught to our children. I would assume she had a tantrum and released herself, knowing her personality type.
I liked this one…. I have felt this way for a long time… why give your opinion on GC talks when they are meant for the GENERAL and you do the work for what it teaches you individually.🤷♀️🤦♀️ I wish it was…here is a topic teach and share what you learned about such topic/testimony. Also, I’ll just add when the high council come to talk… they need to rotate not only high council men but stake RS, YW and stake primary talk as well.
I seek #truth every where I can find it. And I use the gift given to me to discern truth from error. I am alos going directly to God and seek to "Hear Him" personally. So doing that, seeking truth where ever I can find it, is exactly what we have been directed to do from our Prophet. Not taking the vaxx was one suich choice I was directed to follow from God Himself. And its highly frustrating that so many of the membership are doing only the very basics and not delving deeper, seeking the mysteries of the kingdom of God. I remember thinking that only members of the church would make it and be living during the millenium. But then read VOG with prayer and fasting and read a different perspective which was highly eye opening. I now concur with you that we will gain the glory we seek by the choices we make. We must be comfortable in the kingdom we live. God will not force us to heaven. We will gain the glory we are willing to live those laws in. I find it funny too, that I keep reminding people that we are in "hell" right now...the Telestial kingdom. So many get their panties in a bunch over that one. Lol.
Also one more thing from President Oaks talk which he’s given to and Elder Christofferson also touched upon it. It’s the laws that each is able to comfortably abide. Every kingdom has a law and that’s why if you can comfortably abide. Now since the majority of the world doesn’t know yet what we know they’ll have their opportunity at some point to be exposed that had they remained if they’ve already passed on or not would’ve comfortably abided. they learn about it because of the type of individuals that they would be I would suspect that’s why things happen in the next life Ordinance work that we do otherwise what’s the point that. Lds are fortunate on earth right now to have this knowledge and the day of probation now is the time to show that you’re willing to use your agency to abide that law of the kingdom as you hear about it and learn about it and comfortably abide in it. And it takes a little more than just about before you were able to comfortably abide in it to the fullest extent which is why we need to savior to cleans us and give us that power to become his sons and his daughters as that’s what he does.
I have always believed that those in the terrestrial and telestial kingdoms will Nash and growel with themselves because they had many chances and choices to be with FATHER IN HEAVEN IN one of the 3 degrees there and were too lazy to learn CELESTIAL LAWS AND WAYS OF LIVING. I believe that if I don't change my ways EXALTATION IS NOT AVAILABLE TO ME and many others, temple or no temple. AGENCY, KNOWLEDGE COUPLED WITH WISDOM IS THE ONLY WAY !!
I would say nourish your testimony within the church sources until you have strength in the spirit of prophecy. Truth is found in many sources, and the spirit bares witness of all truth, even with our friends of other faiths. The gift of discernment is one of the best gifts we should seek after.
The temple: don't confuse the Terrestrial "WORLD" with the Terrestrial "KINGDOM" - they ARE NOT THE SAME. The temple NEVER mentions judgement and our inheritance in a kingdom of glory. Also note that the promises made in the temple are future ("the day will come...") and depend upon our faithfulness ("inasmuch as you are true and faithful to your covenants..."). These great temple blessings clearly depend on our obedience and repentance and point to a future day. There is NO discussion in the temple about entering into one kingdom of glory or another.
All comments are good, but only God judges the heart. My grandmother was raised a different religion and never joined the church. She had heard us try to teach her but wouldn’t take to it. This good woman appeared to me in the temple, having previously been baptized via proxy a year after her death. She asked me to do her initiatory and endowment, right then when I entered the temple. I felt her like an angel standing next to me, and went to the desk letting them know what was happening. They found her in the system and I did her work. When doing her initiatory she gave me a profound message, an eternal soul saving, private message. I won’t share that part. Her spirit was so strong I was crying nonstop the whole time, and everyone else was too. I don’t understand how it all works, but we are definitely judged by a loving and all-knowing Father.
I experienced a similar visitation with my father in the Temple. He asked me to forgive him( I had tried to teach my parents about the Gospel for a long time, but they thought it was evil, bc of their preacher) I could feel his pain, and it was bad, his work had been done years ago, I felt him becoming clean! Their is repentance and growth in the spirit realm!
Paul’s administration the the 13 articles of faith doesn’t say seek only from prophet’s words. So I study all things with with the guidance of the Holy Ghost and the prophets’ words and scriptures and to back up or not that which I am studying.
The thing that those who chose other places like boating shopping on sunday .party today and drink....because tomorrow we die.that is true.there wont be non of that after this life.
I dont know about that! What is the Telestrial kingdom all about? Maybe its like this life only with everyone that wants to stay on this earth with all its sins, and everyone good gone? Just thinking
Politics are the world, and honestly, I want nothing whatever to do with. Our system is corrupt, lacking in any sort of moral or ethical compass, and it does nothing but irritate me. I’ve signed out of the political world, and I won’t be back.
… concerning the Twelve Apostles of the Lamb. Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord. And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord; First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord. (D&C 112) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2)
What need would there be for 3 kingdoms if there was no one to inhabit them? Also in the doctrine and covenants section 109 it says to seek out of the best books. It doesn't say seek out of the scriptures only. My patriarcle blessing tells me all truth comes from God.
This is false doctrine. . . . There is NO progression between Kingdoms: The following is a quote from Spencer W. Kimball. "After a person has been assigned to his place in the kingdom, either in the telestial, the terrestrial, or the celestial, or to his exaltation, he will NEVER ADVANCE FROM HIS ASSIGNED GLORY TO ANOTHER GLORY. That is eternal! That is why we must make our decisions early in life and why it is imperative that such decisions be right."
Just curious your thoughts on RFK jr. I’ve been following him for years, and I don’t agree with everything he does, but for the most part, I really like what he talks about. Watching his debate live along with the 2 clowns was night and day! He talked about the real issues and gave real solutions.
I have listened to two lengthy interviews with RFKjr. I will just say that there is a good chance I will be voting for him. Honestly, integrity. He is a good soul. That is why he is being ignored. He makes his bed every day, even at a hotel. He goes to 12 steps most every day. He has a morality that is absent in most all political leaders. I love the guy.
@@watcherpalmerlds same. Same. Living in CA. It’s easier for me to vote for him, knowing my state will vote Democrat no matter what. But even still, I wish more people would step outside of the 2 party thought process.
I think the whole thing is to measure what we THINK is truth back to the gospel as taught by the prophets and scriptures. If it doesn't add up - we can't accept is as truth and should put it on the shelf. ie: the theory of evolution does not add up to what the Prophet revealed as the mortal age of the earth. Therefore it should not be seen a source of truth. Also, the act of trying to fit the gospel into the world lens we think is right is the wrong way to go about it. The gospel should be our lens and we fit pieces of 'other knowledge' back into that lens, and if it doesn't fit, put it on the shelf for later, or discard it according to the spirit. We should have the faith to accept as truth the gospel as taught by the scriptures and living prophets and view any other source as "unknown if it's true" until further study. Many parents teach their children to go to school and believe at face value everything their teacher says - this is a recipe for spiritual disaster.
Question for you or whomever is in Utah. Where are the fresh peache farms? We will be driving through in Aug and I want to pick up some boxes of peaches.
The thing I find about truth is that most people say some true things and other not-so-true. It’s why we have to stay close to the spirit to know what things “unofficial sources” say that are true.
I honestly think we are required to search for truth with the guidance of the Holy Ghost. Seeking knowledge outside of the scriptures and leadership is not wrong. The Constitution was inspired by God and it is not in our scriptures or from prophetic leadership. We are told to get an education. If we are limited to only what comes from the brethren why was president Nelson or any other general authority allowed to get a formal education in any field other than from scriptures and church leadership? Just Curious!! I truly believe we will not all obtain the Celestial Kingdom. We have the agency to choose God or not. We have to accept the consequences of said agency. We can be an agent of Christ or an agent of the devil.
If Jared really believes that you should not look outside of current documentation in the church, then it explains a lot. No wonder he seems to have a fairly limited understanding of the church and doctrine. This is clearly not true!
There is one scripture that explains why everyone will not unless everyone actually chose to abide the covenant course through Jesus to get there. There is much we do not know as well still as president oaks suggests. Here is the scripture note “that one soul shall not be lost” And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying-Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.
Have you listened to or read any of the scientifically gathered stories of people having Near Death Experiences? They’re not anything like we picture the 3 Kingdom to be. I had one and I can assure you the tunnel and out of body experience is real. Eternity is a loong time. Hell is experienced as well by people deserving it but calling out to God and being rescued from the downward tunnel which I’ve only read about. Repentance and redemption of sins can take place I believe but it’s a harder struggle after death than here. I don’t know the answers but Eternal Progression has a big meaning to me. I’m not sure there’s a final stopping place.
Near death experiences would not experience a kingdom of glory. Those folks would experience realms of the spirit world. Kingdoms of glory come after resurrection.
@@watcherpalmerlds Thank you for that . The experiences I’ve heard and read are different but all involve a great light and an overwhelming sense of love and peace with no one wanting to come back to earth. And CHRIST is often described as a happy person who teases and laughs a lot. I’m really looking forward to that. I’m educated on the possibilities but stay open to reality because we won’t know till we go through it. My experience was very interesting. I was dying painfully from a very long and difficult child birth and it was as if this mission had ended prematurely and I was fixing to go into a tunnel next to me from the top of the room as I watched all the doctors working on me. I had a calm attitude of an ‘oh well that’s over’ when I heard a baby cry and knew I had to go back so I did through my head. When I awoke I had a new baby girl.
@@markturner5207 I think we are all given what we need to accomplish our mission in this life. Some have greater trials than others. Certainly Joseph Smith would qualify for that. I’m sure that vision was exactly what he needed at that time. I was a young 23 year old wife alone in a Navy hospital while my husband and most of our friends were in a war zone being shot down as pilots, killed in action or missing in action or prisoners of war. All because of a lie told by a US president to get us into war. I needed something at the time to remind me God was really there.
@@freethinker1056 I love to read nde’s I find them very hopeful and insightful. I don’t believe every word nor do I hang my testimony on them but I find some truth in most of them. I can’t imagine our Heavenly Father turning his back on any of his repentant children. I can’t imagine a Father in heaven who would tell some of his wayward children that he will be separated from them forever. You keep the faith sister as Elder Kearon said in his conference talk, God is not putting up roadblocks, he is taking them down.
You know…….I'm just so glad that our Father in Heaven will be the one who will make those decisions. But I also know about energy, karma if you will. What goes out does in someway or somehow comes back to you.
The Johnson’s r my gr gr gr grandparents where J S received over 15 revelations. He healed my grandmother’s hand , Alice Johnson. I tell ya I’ve not been on Cardia only less than 72 hours now having just received it & I notice when I arise each morning my hands don’t feel as stiff, anymore! I thought the mitochondria was the real goer in our cells not realizing nitric oxide being the spark plug as I study more which are not church books :-) I’m about your age & was getting symptoms of vertigo, also! W/o that revelation, dc 76, we wouldn’t have had the word TELEstial not in 1 Cor 15 a word that means MOST distant from God’s throne. There is a lot more about Eternal Progression that I’ve not room enough to share in this comment section… I’ll drop a few points that requires more length ! 1 . Sure , the Lord’s work is perfect -> Moses 1.39 He’s not reveling in multiplying terrestrial & TELEstial kingdoms 2. There is salvation as to our future ; yet, as Cleon Skousen said it’s not permitted for us to teach it now ! Note: The words weeping , wailing , & gnashing of teeth characterizes it so no easy road home 3. It has to do with the Law of Disillusionment 4. And why would we dwell on that b/c no one, with a sound mind (2 Tim 1.7) , wants to delay one’s eternal progress Note: better it is to be very diligent now -> dc 130.18 so much more we’ll have in the future , an advantage, where we can hit the ground running -> dc 138.55-58! People r very slow to wake up we saw it during the SCAMgenda (1 Ne 1.21) as the Lord said EVERY one walks after their own image (dc 1.16) & almost all men r about unrighteous dominion (dc 121.39) and so have TO BE SERIOUS about the gospel (Lk 2.52) as Pres Jos Field Smith taught me in 1970 at his solemn assembly when I was ten yrs old he was the 10th prophet ! FEW there be who will get with it (1 Ne 14.12)! Requires excellence (1 Cor 3.10) everyday , aLwaYs -> dc 20.77,79!
I agree with your statement that all will not be in the Celestial Kingdom but I haven’t heard the reasoning from those who say differently. I can’t help but think there is a little “straw manning” going on. What seems incontrovertible is: 1) all God’s children have the opportunity to gain celestial life through Christ; but 2) God will force no one to accept/follow Christ. So the question is more of timeframe and opportunity. Can someone change their mind at some future point, after final judgement, and accept Christ? I’m guessing they can but they just won’t. Admittedly, I have no scriptural evidence for that feeling though. Some prophets have suggested there is no progression while others have. I don’t think the doctrine is as clear as you suggest.
The plan is clear. This life is the time for man to prepare to meet God. This experience is the best possible time and type of body to prove ourselves herewith whether we will do all things whatsoever the Lord commands us. There are laws to abide by. We as members have all the law. I can tell you now - if we of all people do not improve ourselves with the time allotted to us, we will not receive eternal glory. We have it all on a silver platter. We will have no excuse when we come before the Saviour and we will know this. If we as members are the ones questioning the gospel and trying to replace it with the false teaching of eternal progression - we are sinning and need to repent. We don't need to worry about anyone else but ourselves and our family whom we have stewardship over. Are we teaching them correct doctrine? Are we modelling what it looks like to be repenting daily and applying the Atonement of our Saviour? That's all we need to worry about...not what happens to our ancestors whom we have diligently completed the temple work for. The Lord is just and merciful - we don't need to hypothesise on doctrine that has never been talked about or set out by the brethren.
@@Jeanie-nv7lo I'm not sure I would be so bold as to declare the thought of progression between kingdoms as "false teaching" or "antichrist". The Church has no official position on whether or not there will be progression between kingdoms. In response to a question regarding progression between kingdoms, the First Presidency directed their secretary In 1952 and, again, in 1965 to respond: "The Brethren direct me to say that that the Church has never announced a definite doctrine upon this point, though some have held the view that it was possible in the course of progression to advance from one glory to another, invoking the principle of eternal progression; others have taken an opposite view." Cited in Dialogue, Vol.15, No.1, pp. 181-182. Elder McConkie called the Second Chance Theory a heresy, yet J. Reuben Clark was a firm believer in it, “I am not a strict constructionist, believing that we seal our eternal progress by what we do here. It is my belief that God will save all of His children that he can: and while, if we live unrighteous here, we shall not go to the other side in the same status, so to speak, as those who lived righteously; nevertheless, the unrighteous will have their chance, and in the eons of the eternities that are to follow, they, too, may climb to the destinies to which they who are righteous and serve God, have climbed to those eternities that are to come.” J. Reuben Clark, Church News, 23 April 1960, p. 3. I could list several more on both sides of the isle. And depending on the week, I find myself on one side or the other. Point is, we ought to be careful with as-yet-to-be-revealed doctrine, resisting the urge to condemn one side while holding fast to the other. It's great to discuss and exchange thoughts but until God reveals it, it's in the we-just-don't-know bucket.
@moneymcr - exactly... we should be careful. We are taking about people believing this doctrine as gospel... when there is nothing, NOTHING revealed on the matter. J Reuben Clark shared his belief. That did not make it doctrine. Doctrine is taught by the prophet and affirmed by thy brethren. President Oaks in his most recent talk affirmed the doctrine that we are taught - this time is the opportunity for Men to prepare to meet God. I stand by my comment, it is doctrine and backed up with scripture. Show me a member who is on the covenant path striving to keep the covenants they make, repenting of weaknesses and improving their lives and I'll show you Sunshine who believes Christ at his word and is acting on that belief... they are in a better state than a member who is making covenants, not trying 100% to keep them but would rather hold onto weaknesses and sin and hold onto a teaching that is false until proven or confirmed correct... false according to scripture and quotes from prophets right now... clinging to that false teaching because they don't really want to use their time wisely but would rather say "eat drink and be merry etc". I'm all for that teaching being real, and that we have more chances.. but I don't believe that is part of the plan because it sounds too much like other false regions out there.
From what I have heard, the reasoning, stems from much of the language in the book of Mormon, which presents only two outcomes: salvation (the general sense) and being cut off from the presence of the Lord. If these are the only two alternatives, so the reasoning goes, then all three kingdoms must fit in the salvation prong, and there must be progression within that realm. This view is proffered to counter the “empty chair“ portrayal of the celestial kingdom: how can it possibly be heaven if one or more of my loved ones aren’t there? The idea of progressingbetween kingdoms, then, is to offer a salve to those who believe the “empty chair” dilemma. Don’t worry, your relatives will eventually get there, even if they are late to the party.
@@moneymcr president. Clark’s comments could be construed just as easily as referring to the spirit world as to the three kingdoms of glory. I would suggest that they apply only to the former.
The idea, false as it is, that there is progression between kingdoms isn't new and has been around for years. While God will give us every opportunity while in the second estate, after our final judgement and resurrection we have a permanent body for either a Celestial, Terrestrial, or Telestial glory. And there's no dying after that.
This view is a copout. There is so much that has been revealed to us and is waiting to be revealed if we will ask the right questions. A more clear picture of the truth will always yield better thoughts, words and actions. My experience is that the answers to many of my questions are hiding in plain sight, there in the scriptures all along. I would encourage you to persist instead of throwing up your hands and saying, we can’t know. We can.
Sometimes it is discouraging to listen to people who travel on the fringes dabbling in unsubstantiated belifs and some even to wresting the scriptures to fit their narrative and belief, seeking to draw others into their false doctrines. Then when you try to reason with them you get no where. For some it may not matter for when it is proven they are wrong they will humbly change their thinking, but for others, i fear they will ,when confronted with that crisis, they will leave the church, or even worse become the persecutors of it.
I listened to her whole speech. She must have been in a speech class or or a FFA speech team. I'm on a county board and at our yearly state meetings they have teens come in to give memorized speeches. They all use that odd, unnatural speech pattern. I find it difficult to listen to and when I am a judge at the competitions I score the youth higher if they don't do that
@@watcherpalmerlds Her message was absolutely fantastic. It's the education system training on how to speak which I have an issue with. It is designed to cause the listener to focus on the rhythm rather than the words. Even in the speech competitions I have been part of in the agriculture industry and FFA many of the judges are more focused on the delivery rather than the words spoken. I am highly impressed with her message and the path she is on. I can't wait to see what she accomplishes as she is far and ahead of most adults
Zoe is my granddaughter and she normally speaks so quickly she's hard to keep up with! We have encouraged her to slow down because we can't think as fast as she speaks.
ruclips.net/video/fqK-aymbCWE/видео.htmlsi=_YYQ0tpLd0w4CB7- You will love this good sister and her wonderful message. Please watch.
I think D&C 76: 112,113 pretty much puts the nail in the coffin on your subject of not everyone going to the celestial kingdom. How can this be refuted?
Thank you for the recommendation. That was a great presentation!
Zoe shared something very appropriate especially for our times .
It didn’t include the Q & A would love to hear it !
"Watch her's before you watch this."
-last three seconds of the video.
You probably mentioned it earlier, and I was distracted, thinking of something else. Still, its funny.
Pres. Nelson in his YSA devotional of May 2022 seems to put an end to the debate. “During this life we get to choose which laws we are willing to obey-those of the celestial kingdom, or the terrestrial, or the telestial-and, therefore, in which kingdom of glory we will live forever.”
However the spirit world is an extension of this life.
Pres. Nelson is absolutely correct, but I think the interpretation of it is a bit simplistic. What of those who never knew of Christ or His laws? The child that dies in infancy? The woman living in 10th century China? They don't exactly have the time or knowledge to choose which laws they are willing to obey for it was never presented to them in this life. Does God just sort of short-circuit their decision, claiming since He knew what they would have done if given the opportunity, He can now rightfully assign them to a kingdom? Seems a bit unfair. We live in the fullness of time and are therefore able to make a clear choice. Not so for the vast majority of God's children. I trust He has a means of working it all out, which implies it is after this earthly life.
Eternity for ever is a long time. I believe in eternal increase of learning and progressing for ever. I believe the choice of “glory” each of us may choose is a starting point… actually that starting point has already begun in our pre-mortality. D&C 88 is a great trigger-for-thought resource. There are many, so many that each of us can have His Her own.
@@moneymcr perhaps our choices before we came to earth also play a part in our final inheritance. We know that we had agency in the preexistence and it played a part in our place and time on earth.
@@teresalane1004 Good point. That would then imply “this life (and our pre-mortal life) is the time to choose eternal life.” Could that then extend to our post-earth life?
Our daughter is currently serving he mission in Reno Nevada. She was doing a lot on Facebook in the beginning but her mission president banned Facebook because it wasn't affective and the missionaries were waisting too much time. My daughter told me recently that baptisms have increased significantly since they quit using Facebook.
Good to hear!
Hardly anyone uses Facebook anymore. The Church activity avoided FB and discouraged Wards and Stakes from using it when people were really engaging on it. The Church pushed their app Circles and tried to get people to switch to using that.
Brilliant example of cutting out distractions.
Your daughter has a great mission president. He was our Stake President here in NM and is a good friend and neighbor.
This is so good, modern day Nehors! People are falling for the idea that they can all be saved because it’s easy and they don’t need to be accountable.
I suggest you listen to what Connor presents. Because even Bro Palmer I think may have misunderstood. Accountability or the lack thereof has nothing to do with it. Ask yourself honestly, in the open and in private, where are you with your own personal honest truth search and acting upon? Where are you with the flock of the 100 sheep? Are you lost or are you one of the 99, supposedly safe, the the shepherd left out in the open by themselves to look for the one supposedly that is lost? I know that parable has been misconstrued and misinterpreted or misused for its purpose since the savior talked about the worth of everyone, that every one matters (he was sitting and eating with the sinner)... I too feel more comfortable sitting and eating with the sinners because they are just more honest than those that profess they know Nehor except they haven't seen their own Nehor (or Korihor) in themselves [yet]. We are just critically examining here... I am not saying "you are" - I consider myself lost and I can't fathom how I could ever make it whatever 'they' may have painted or mispainted (I really want to see the highest increasing glory of course)... before I can develop a desire to even wanting to be there. So I am hoping that whatever Jesus will have in store for my miserable self, it will be a continuous opportunity to grow eternally closer to Him and His Father inch by inch.... I just know this, if I was sure of my exalting status, I would have failed it already the very moment I would consider myself being better than Nehor or Korihor, or Alma the Younger when he was that trouble maker, etc... I think it is a good idea to walk and eat and sit with the sinners.
Yes we will all be exalted. Not the way the Nehors believe. They didn't believe in repentance. U mentioned that people believe this because it's easy and you don't need to be accountable. 1st. Who told you it has to be hard? I had a little brother that drowned at 18 months. Free pass for him, isn't that easy? How about being born during the millennium, I assume you know that everyone that makes it into the millennium receives the Cel. K. Being born during that time sounds easy enough. I could go on and on but you get my point. 2nd doesn't require accountability? I don't follow, if one combines accountability with JC's atonement I don't see why being exalted excludes being accountable. We will be exalted because God so wills it. My Dad doesn't make no junk. If He did He would cease to be God. Don't worry, He's been doing this for a long time, I have perfect confidence in Him. JS in the ? Says that in order to have faith unto salvation a man must have a correct understanding of the true nature and character of God. Perhaps what separates our 2 perspectives is that I believe in a omniscient all powerful God. One who doesn't see a conflict between agency and His ability to obtain his will in all things. Luv ya, I think we are standing on the edge of knowing how He will do it.
This question was brought up in a gospel doctrine class in a ward in Florida. I was very surprised at the person asking the question as she and her husband were stalwart members having served in many different callings. She said she had heard that if we went to the Telestial kingdom we could work up to the Terrestrial kingdom by good works and then eventually make it to the Celestial. The teacher didn't know the answer and so put it to a person that was recently released as the temple president. I was amazed at the answer because he didn't know the actual answer. Then another person tried to answer saying that yes, we would progress in those kingdoms and go to the next kingdom through our good works. My head was ready to explode as Satan had somehow gotten this false doctrine into the church. So I put my hand up and I know I was a bit forceful with the answer but let the class know that that was not the case. I opened up to the Doctrine and Covenants 76 and just read about those that enter into the Telestial kingdom. Starting at verse 109 and ending at verse 112 that says, "And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end." It's such a simple thing to understand according to the scriptures and yet Satan still gets in there somehow with his false teachings.
This is exactly what I’m talking about. Thank you so much for sharing this.
@@watcherpalmerldsUltimately, the church’s official position in regards to the possibility of progression between kingdoms is that it has no official doctrine on the matter. Unless a new and official statement or declaration (not just some well thought out and argued opinion) has come out since 1965 the church’s official statement reads;
Secretary to the first presidency in a 1952 letter and again in 1965
“The brethren have directed me to say that the church has never announced a definite doctrine upon this point. Some of the brethren have have held the view that it was possible in the course of progression to advance from one glory to another, invoking the principle of eternal progression, others of the brethren have taken the opposite view. But as stated the church has never announced a definitive doctrine on this point.”
So it is not as cut and dried as you would like it to be. Some thoughts I have concerning this matter are;
1) For what reason are celestial beings permitted to minister to the Terrestrial kingdom, and Terrestrial beings permitted to minister to the Telestial kingdom?
2) Listen closely to the King Follett discourse by Joseph Smith.
3) In a talk given by Jeffery Holland, Be ye therefore perfect, he states “if we persevere then somewhere in the eternities our refinement will be finished and complete” “I testify of that grand destiny made possible to us through the atonement of Jesus Christ, who himself continued grace to grace until in mortality he received a perfect fullness of celestial glory”
4) The depth, width, size and scope of the eternal atonement of our Savior Jesus Christ is the least understood pillar of salvation for all who accept and love the Lord. It is far greater than we can fathom.
@@markturner5207 I believe scripture is clear. I also believe, that if everyone eventually “makes it”, there is no agency of man. That my friend is a scary thought.
@@watcherpalmerlds I understand the thought of eternal progression is frightening, I also understand you have been taught these very cultural principles your entire life and the thought of non member gentiles someday in the eternities, through the strength of their family, their righteous desires, their love of the Savior and above all his eternal purifying atonement being able to be where God dwells seems unfair and just not right.
In humility try to look through the lens of Gods love for ALL of his children. If you had a child that was repentant and had suffered for their own sins and desired more than anything to be with you, what would you do, say sorry, but for all eternity you can never be with me, never? I do not worship that God. Gods plan of happiness is for all, even the sinner on the cross next to Jesus, not just members of the church and just like in this mortal life the Lord meets us where we are, to help, bless, guide, forgive, heal and literally take us by the hand, doing all things in his power respecting our agency, why would that stop in the next life? It makes reason stare.
R U aware that "worlds without end" is one of JC's names? The Hebrews even have a festival called that. Read D&C 18:35 take a couple of humility pills and consider backing off the attitude that's it's so simple and at the same time examine what spirit U were responding to when you said ur head was about to explode. I never feel anything but luv and tolerance when talking about the gospel. Agency demands we all figure these things out on our own timeline
Doesn’t the idea that we will all receive celestial glory eventually because it is what our Father desires sound a lot like Lucifer’s plan? I’m with you brother Palmer 100%.
sort of, but a huge part of Satan's plan was that he wanted all of the glory for himself, and in his plan, none of us would have to do the work or struggle.
No, not really. Forcing us into a kingdom not of our choosing would be contrary to the nature of God. Desiring all of his children to receive exaltation sounds like a loving Heavenly Father. We do believe in eternal progression. Damnation, or the inability and unavailabilty to progress, is reserved for those who choose Satan. The question is can one progress from kingdom to kingdom. The church has taken no official stance on this doctrine. We can have our own ideas or preferences but until God reveals it, they are just man's theories.
“I am with you…” - it is what it is, opinions and what I may believe or the prophet etc, is all irrelevant. Judgement rendered “i will make it and you they etc won’t…” is the gull of judgement evil. I heard “them” plenty praising themselves of how good “they” are. I like what Thomas the Apostle did - he was critically examining and asking good questions, one of which lead to the Savior’s answer “I am the Way”. D&C 88 is a great resource to ponder b about. whether someone is right or wrong is irrelevant because we don’t know except that He is the Way. That is the sure stuff.
Joseph Smith on the bible- you said “inspired version..” sure true but a better source to ponder is D&C 88 at least for me it gave me a break through at 45 - 60 approx. back to everything that’s in and from the new testament especially: in 325 AD the Emperor Constantine made himself pope and call the council of Neacea or Nicea … that event was politically motivated and to usurp power and control, not out of his good repenting heart to follow christ. So in my opinion you can’t really believe anything out of that book without the HUGE grain of salt. The Bible is opposite motive of what the book of mormon is. Plus the bibliographers of the bible was that council of necea and of the book of mormon was General Dr Dr Professor Mormon, Dean of Historic Research Department of Theology and The Department of Truth and Restorations. The endowment information in the book of mormon is absolutely more clear. The Bible I have to always read with this question in the back of my mind “what’s in it for Constantine?”
Pres. Spencer W. Kimball told a story of a newlywed couple who chose to not be married in the Temple, and would be sealed later, then they were in a tragic auto-accident where one (or both) were killed. Kimball said they knowingly chose to not be sealed in sacred ordinances of the Temple. If I know true and correct principles and choose not to comply or obey, I am making choices that will affect my eternities. D&C 76, that you reference, is clear! Those valiant in their testimony of Jesus are heirs of Celestial Glory. Choices, thoughts and agency become our character. Also many Apostles frim Talmage, L Richards, M. Peterson to Dallin Oaks cite other sources in their books from early reformers, Renassiance philosophers, Columbus, 2rd and 5th Century thinkers, etc. How does one write about the Apostasy without these past sources/ authors? You are teaching truth!
I think what Jared is getting at is that it’s easy to go off track so we should use the teachings of the Church to stay on course
Yes - if he's going to SAVE a quote or a teaching he wants to have an original source, and have it be from a church leader.
D&C 109:7 indicates that we should be seeking light and knowledge from all good sources. “And as all have not faith, seek ye diligently and teach one another words of wisdom; yea, seek ye out of the best books words of wisdom, seek learning even by study and also by faith;” Also, Moroni 7:16 “For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.”
I feel the judgement given to each individually by each our own lord of the vineyard is far more generous than what anyone can fathom. If I make it, wherever that may be, and whatever that is, seems to be so far-fetched and out of my comprehension... I need just baby-steps. I can't fathom where I should want to go. Why wanting to go to a place that I cannot comprehend? I can comprehend happiness and peace, and I know that I am sick and tired of stigma and false doctrine, and the lack of fellowship between people - members in my ward. If I have to be alone, then I rather be alone by myself and not going to the church where everyone professes fellowship one with another fellow citizen in Christ, but their heart is far away? Too much judgement rendered, to those that explore and inquire; If you ask questions you push the boundaries of acceptability... The apostle Thomas is even today judged "Doubting Thomas" - what an injustice. He was nothing like that. We have very little scripture of him, but the little we have points to an inquisitive faithful man who sought truth through faith and justice. Jesus showed his wounds to the apostles that fearfully locked themselves into a room fearing persecution, instead of Thomas who was out and about doing whatever- we really don't know. Jesus told the apostles to put their hands into His side, while Thomas refused to believe and then asked, and after faith for 8 days, Jesus came again and then Thomas received the fulfilling of His Faith and Hope the get that what Jesus freely gave to the other apostles who didn't even ask for it. I want to be like an atheist to do good because it is in my very nature... and yet, I seem to act only when commanded. Do I make sense? It means, 'be good' not because you have been told to be good, but because it is your nature. There is no shame in asking what Thomas asked for, or what Nephi asked for (the Tree of Life - dream etc), or to ask what Joseph Smith asked for, Moses, Brother of Jared, or or or... So, here we are again, even in the Bible the truth is twisted, Thomas' goodness is twisted into "He is a doubting Thomas" - don't be like the doubting Thomas, you don't need to see Christ just believe other people's witness.... I like to know for myself. And frankly, that is why it is so good to discuss here, and listen to provocative thought that we may explore it each for ourselves and know the truth "by the power and gift of Christ..." like you said. I don't necessarily agree Palmer on all of his points. But he makes good points that provoke critical thinking.
"An understanding of God’s fabulous plan takes the mystery out of life and the uncertainty out of our future. It allows each of us to choose how we will live here on earth and where we will live forever. The baseless notion that we should 'eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die; and it shall be well with us' is one of the most absurd lies in the universe."
- President Nelson, Think Celestial, October 2023 General Conference
Maybe it's already decided. After all, God knows all things, past, present, and future. Right? What's the use in even trying? Doesn't that take the mystery out of life...? Hypothetically, if you are one of those that already knows, or at least you feel so sure of yourself that "you are going to make it", - and with "YOU" I don't mean you per say, but in general - then where is the effort to care enough to be your brother's keeper and take upon yourself the role of the Shepherd (the Lord), number 1 to prevent the 1 wondering sheep from leaving the flock of 100 in the first place, and #2 why are you, or they, not feeling compelled enough to take the Lord's role and go after the lost sheep themselves? (And why do these people even want to be sheep? I don't). Why does the Savior have to do it? Is that because it is His job, or He is just doing it, because nobody else does? He does say to Simon Peter "fee my sheep". Of course this 1 lost sheep parable by the Savior was in response to "why does he bother eating with the sinners" and His answer was this parable and the coin and the prodigal son - It's about "everyone matters", even if that means to leave the flock out in the open (exposed)... Which some suggest is actually quite reckless, or at least the 99, and everyone always wants to be and thinks they are part of the 99 strong ones remaining in the secure flock among themselves because the Lord trusts them and so leaves them alone... instead I want to be the 1 lost one because at least I will get to explore, and then socialize with the Lord by myself for a while on the way home to the miserable flock that didn't care enough for me (the lost sheep) in the first place, but let's be sure, to acknowledge, they are sure, they are the 99. I don't want to be with the 99, those hypocrites that think they are the 99.... So the question about who will live where, in my fathomable comprehension will most likely be a surprise to many, if not all.
Tonight enlightened! Thanks for sharing your journey. Hi Sue👼🏼
I am with you when it comes to Jonathan Cahn, I truly believe he is inspired, perhaps dare I say a prophet. I do not think he is equal to "the" prophet or any of the apostles. I also do not believe he has the priesthood or any keys (although he could be a Levite), but he could still be a prophet similar to Samual the Lamenite or Robert Mason from early church history that Wilford Woodruff said was a prophet.
Agreed
I can't tell you how bothered I was the first time I heard this concept. It seems unjust to those who try so hard in this life to live a true pure life to be told it actually DOESN'T matter how hard you try in this life because whenever you decide you want it in the next life God will give it to you. God is just. This life is the life to prove ourselves. Only those who choose to live the doctrine and the covenants get to receive the reward. Thank you for making this video. It was a balm to my soul.
Thank you for taking the time to make this comment. It means a lot to me.
I don’t believe in this false doctrine, but the entire first half of your message sounds very much like the brother of the prodigal sons’ complaint. What happens when someone repents at very last minute and fully accepts the saviors atonement? After all of your life of trying hard that doesn’t seem very fair it does it?
brother Palmer said in the beginning that he is happy for someone who has done evil acts and repents
Matthew 20:8-15
I like this explanation...
Alma 34:32 "For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors"
“You can contend, without being contentious” I love that. It’s a pet peeve when people let false doctrine go uncorrected.
I think that Jared's point was that, when interpreting what the Bible says about the last days, rather than look to interpretations of non LDS sources, or even podcasts from church members, it's best to give more credence to authorized sources. I don't think you can extrapolate that Jared was talking about anything anyone ever said about the Gospel
I did a livestream reaching to the debate, we hit on abortion used as a sacrifice by evil people. In my recent video with Chief Midegah I talked about that again and compared it to Pharaoh calling for children to be put away.
It is my understanding that the resurrection IS the judgement, or rather that they are concurrent with one another. Because, the kind of body we receive (the glory and abilities of our bodies) will correspond with the kingdom we inhabit.
The patriot Nurse..She pointed out that not only are we sacrificing our little ones..we are abusing our elderly population....yes H.B. was an evil man along with his family but abusing yhe elderly on the world stage is despicable..
To say all will make it to the Celestieal kingdom,It's kind of like the born again thing I heard on my mission in New York back in the 80 "saved by grace", however, it has infected the truth 😢 within the church... The old Kingdom jumping.
False doctrine.
For as long as I can remember, I've always had warning bells go off in my mind/heart when someone preaches: "All is well in Zion."
Moroni 8:24: "And the first fruits of repentance is baptism; and baptism cometh by faith unto the fulfilling the commandments; and the fulfilling the commandments bringeth remission of sins;"
Abraham 3:24-26 “we will prove them here with”. (Pearl of Great Price). 👍🏼
I often think what if a “ Samuel the Lamanite” was speaking? Would I be able to recognize the truth he would speak? I think many can speak of truth and NOT be members. LET THE SPIRIT GUIDE!!!
@Watcher Palmer, I do have a question for you. What do you think of individuals who have a disability? I have been diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome and a form of Autism, and I have had to struggle in life for a lot of things, one of the biggest challenges I have is keeping and finding employment. I am currently unemployed and have been struggling to find another job for almost a year now. I keep praying and having faith that God will bless me with employment, and so do my parents. My wife currently works at McDonald's, but still, she doesn't get paid that much. I feel as though her learning disability and my disability that is a challenge for us. I am hoping that God will bless us with accomplishing the things in this life and I am hoping that we will be able to make it to the Celestial Glory. I know that those who have a disability will be judged differently, but I hope that God will understand that we have tried the best that we can in this life. What is your opinion about those who have a disability? Do you think God will judge those individuals differently?
I believe we are judged individually and the only one we are judged against is ourself. Jobs, income, education level are things we humans can use to compare against each other, but to Heavenly Father those things are not of value or of importance.
Just do your best and treat others well. Seek and rely on Christ in all you do💕
Everyone will get on opportunity to return to our Heavenly Parents and Jesus, but no one will be forced, but no unclean thing can enter their presence.
The disciples asked the savior if a blind man was his fault or his parents fault. The Savior said the man was blind for the purpose of giving Glory to God. So you are blessed even though it is difficult to see.
Your faith and belief in Jesus Christ is enough. Be born again. Trust Him and His word. I am an Evangelical Christian, but enjoy this channel. (I hope I will not be run off this channel because I am not LDS?) I will pray for you to find employment. 🙏 God bless you!
@@dl1130 All are welcome! Please comment and join discussions as often as you please 💕
You took the words right out of my mouth
I heard that in a song, somewhere.
I watch as many different sources as I can, in fact my Patriarchal Blessing says that I am to search out as much truth as I can find after I search the scriptures and authorities, plus wherever it can be found. I like the Hebrew scholars and ancient archeologists and science. Many new discoveries are currently happening. Even the science behind the Torah and the Quran is very eye opening.
One of the things i absolutely love about you is that you are willing to seek truth no matter where it comes from. I am LDS but we don't have the market cornered on truth. Imo, Christian Homestead deals with alot of clickbait. You just say what it is. Greatful for that and for you never being afraid to say it like it is. Thank you!
I just finished listening to you and Zoe. Bravo and well done!!! Love seeing the youth rise up and reach their potential that Heavenly Father has set for them.
As far as everyone will be saved, I’m seeing a lot of this where I live in WA state. Mostly from parents who have children who have distanced themselves from the church and chosen a different way of life. Let Truth Prevail.
But repentance is possible in the spirit world and who knows how much they understood even if they were raised in the church. Their home life may have had problems not seen from the outside. That's why God is the righteous judge, thank goodness!
Works: We do what we believe. It is not that we are measured by how often or what level of service we provide, but whether Christ's principles rest in our hearts such that we choose to act on those principles when given a choice.
The Principle of Progression between kingdoms: I think there are two different concepts working here that are being conflated and causing problems.
1} "Everybody will progress to the Celestial Kingdom, eventually." There are multiple issues with this.
The first and major one is that it assumes that everyone wants to. People often assume certain desires are default. During my Mission, people in Brasil were shocked that I did not like Futebol/Soccer/Football. The question was always which team I followed, not if I watched at all. The same was true in the American South, but for American Football. It was always what teams did I support, not if I liked it at all. We assume that everyone would want to be in "Heaven" (The Celestial Kingdom) and not "Hell" (The Others). The Kingdoms is a powerful message because it addresses the dichotomy of how an Eternal Being can condemn some people to an eternal state of torment (Hell). Instead, people are sorted into places with environments that match their desires and the laws they are willing to obey. To that soul, the Kingdom they are sorted into is just right as a Kingdom with higher/lower laws would be torment. But to someone who is willing to live by the higher/lower laws, that Kingdom would look like torture. As such, people already primed for divine revelation are going to see no issues with the Celestial Kingdoms laws and feel that attaining any lesser kingdom is torture.
Second, whether movement between Kingdoms is possible. Before you read the next paragraph and declare me "whatever", please read the next three paragraphs. This is an entire thought process wherein it only works when placed together. This is a synergetic result wherein it can not work in stand alone pieces, just like the Plan of Salvation.
A truly good and eternal being WOULD create a method for progressing upward in the Kingdoms. A single test in an arbitrary world would be insufficient in ALL cases. To rule that God would only allow once would be to diminish God.
Yet, there would need to be a cut-off. The Law of Diminishing Returns notes that at some point, no measurable change will be detected. Eventually, you can determine whether the person tends to prefer Scary movies or Comedies, based on the totality of what they watch. The 1001th movie will not greatly change it. Moreover, the Soul would come to the same realization. Maybe the 3rd or 4th time, the Soul can convince themselves that it would have been different if they had been born in a different place, been richer/poorer, had more/less friends, whatever. Eventually, they realize that their desires and choices will not change regardless of the variable. As such, they accept the degree of glory as a finality, a Final Judgment.
Third, the existence of these "retests" could never be confirmed by a person in authority. Human Psychology is such a fickle thing. As long as people have a chance to redo, they rarely put forth 100%. Furthermore, they use it as justification to keep doing poorly. They often justify a lack of studying or trying by saying: they will do better next time, this is their "ditch" attempt, they are allowed a Skip attempt so they will make it this one. All through School and University, I watched this happen. People often wondered why I got to skip the final, but teachers would note that I never missed a test and an F on the final test would still result in me getting an A. If people knew they had multiple chances, most would keep discarding the current test and "go evil", which would invalidate the test and waste everyone's time. Moreover, it would ruin other peoples' tests and imbed bad behaviours and memories in the soul. As such, it becomes psychological necessary that people believe that THIS is the "very last chance". Only then will the truth of our behaviour be illuminated, giving a fair and accurate evaluation of the soul. Not only is this fair from the divine side, but to the Soul. It would be unfair to the soul to declare a judgment accurate if it is based on a Soul that was choosing to "test" out behaving differently. How many Hollywood Actors should be judged differently from the characters they play?
Sadly, teaching people this theory is dangerous. People like me can see the totality and use it to explain logical necessity, then still put forth 100% effort. But most people will fall into a lull. This happens with Reincarnation and ALL being saved. It becomes a great tool for the adversary to get people to excuse poor or diminished effort. The reality is: Whether we can move between kingdoms or try again is just a Thought Game. In the end, we need to treat this life as the only chance we have, even if for only ourselves.
Contend without being contentious. Yes! And absolutely much of the time things fall on deaf ears. But I will not stop sharing when the spirit guides me to. Let the scriptures do the talking. Yes! Amen. Agency rules! We mmust live in such a way that we would FEEL comfortable living in the kingdom we desire. Its hard to imagine the Celestial Kingdom so I think that's why so many settle. And tfar too many are choosing the telestial kingdom. Sad. Thank you for this discussion. I've been fed.
I remember Neil Maxwell & Boyd K. Packer quoting from C.S. Lewis often. One of his major warnings was about the infiltration of scholars who embraced the Progressive theology. Men Without Chests and the last book in the Perelandra series. We are now face to face with Woke theology just as they warned.
Any works based salvation is anti Christ. It’s believing WE (not Christ) can save ourselves. Exaltation is based on the level of light, love and truth of Christ that we accept within us and of course emulate out from us.
What about ordinances for the dead? is their work then null and void? Those who might be baptized and sealed etc..."The work will go on until the chain is unbroken" I heard a Bishop say once not going mention his name but he said Sister's who haven't found your husband yet not to worry you will get yours on the other side if necessary... that was back in the 90's. I believe the Savior of the world will provide every opportunity for people to get to where they need to be he knew us before we came here and who we are now and what our circumstances are.
Dead folks that have their temple ordinances done, still have the opportunity to accept those ordinances. There is still no guarantee. I do agree that everyone will get every opportunity. I don’t believe I said anything to the contrary.
@@watcherpalmerlds Sorry that wasn't meant to come off as an attack it was just a statement.👍
Thank you for introducing us to Zoe. She is amazing!
Our problem is that you and I see the reality but when you share YOU GLOW W TRUTH!!!!
Wow just wow thank you for the invite to watch the Zoe utube video it was an outstanding presentation what a brilliant young women thanks again bro Palmer!
Joseph Smith: "Mormonism is truth, in other words the doctrine of the Latter-Day Saints, is truth...The first and fundamental principle of our holy religion is, that we believe that we have a right to embrace all, and every item of truth, without limitation or without being circumscribed or prohibited by the creeds or superstitious notions of men, or by the dominations of one another, when that truth is clearly demonstrated to our minds, and we have the highest degree of evidence of the same.” JS manual, Letter to Isaac Galland, published in the Times and Seasons, Feb. 1840, pp 53-54***
D&C 132 : 16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.
17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.
*Also see Alma 12.
This was so good.
It's a great advantage to have a Prophet of God to give guidance. I love the talk that President Oaks gave on April 20/21 called Defending Our Divinely Inspired Constitution. I personally recognized a lot of the things that are happening in politics today.
I think a big problem members have is the belief that God will make all things right. The other thing we can get hung up on is that if you teach or train up a child in the way he should go he will not depart from it. Therefore they believe that God will make everything right as they see it.
When the most important thing above all other else is the killing of the most innocent of our society, it just shows how wicked our nation and politicians have become and how far removed we are from God and how ripe we are for destruction. As for everyone reaching the celestial kingdom, it is false. That's why there are 3 different degrees. Also it say every knee shall bow and every tongue acknowledge and confess that Jesus is the Christ. But it doesn't say everyone has to accept him. I've heard it said that everyone will become a Mormon in the millennium, and that's not true either.
Well said. The sophistry outlined in the BM that seeks to change the Fathers plan is alive and well today!
We should absolutely listen to and read from many good sources. We then discern what is true and what is not through spiritual guidance and using the scriptures as the standard.
I am certain that the image of "Weeping, Wailing and Gnashing of teeth" describes members of the church who settle. Who chose to obey only the minimal laws and thereby received the glory they chose...being much lower than the one they were expecting.
I burst out laughing when you read the scriptures and then referenced we believe in the Trinity 🤣😂🤣😂
Scott… I agree with you totally!
We are told to study from the best books. Our authorities get their learning from outside sources even Joseph Smith. Church sources also contradict sometimes because of opinions. We learn line upon line, studying it out helps us get closer to the truth and if we limit ourselves then our hearts and minds are never prepared for more, we simply isolate and perpetuate a generation of understanding which was not prepared for more.
I think if you are at the pulpit...stick with true principles and true doctrine...and your testimony of the Living Christ. I think wards who assign conference talks in Sac. Mtg dont trust the members to pull together a talk for the edification of both the giver and the reciever. Just comment on a talk we can all access..have already heard...and get more of that in RS/EQ....it resonates to me the members are spiritually lazy and have to rely on someone elses experience with inspiration from The Holy Ghost. Dont use your own experiences by all means! 😅..last Sunday a sister spoke and apoligised that she was going to deviate from the conf. talk assigned and told her amazing conversion story. So powerful. She went rogue and it was so refreshing!
I made a complaint once about my child's seminary teacher who wanted to bring teachings from 20th century "gurus" whom she thought were "good" people - but if she had done a little research she would have found out they were not on the Lord's team. That teacher was released from her calling. When teaching the gospel in a calling - other sources should not be used as the major source material... there is enough church material to give the message.
@Jeanie-nv7lo wow...what a nightmare. Some surely have an agenda for sure. I'm glad you spoke up!...this is where training teachers is lacking...
@@GAILandROD - I'm sure training works with some, but this one was a crazy lady. I didn't ask for her release, just that doctrine is taught to our children. I would assume she had a tantrum and released herself, knowing her personality type.
@GAILandROD Hi Gail. Yes, her conversion story was amazing! And Bishop thanked her and confirmed she was following the Spirit. 👍
I liked this one…. I have felt this way for a long time… why give your opinion on GC talks when they are meant for the GENERAL and you do the work for what it teaches you individually.🤷♀️🤦♀️ I wish it was…here is a topic teach and share what you learned about such topic/testimony.
Also, I’ll just add when the high council come to talk… they need to rotate not only high council men but stake RS, YW and stake primary talk as well.
I seek #truth every where I can find it. And I use the gift given to me to discern truth from error. I am alos going directly to God and seek to "Hear Him" personally. So doing that, seeking truth where ever I can find it, is exactly what we have been directed to do from our Prophet. Not taking the vaxx was one suich choice I was directed to follow from God Himself. And its highly frustrating that so many of the membership are doing only the very basics and not delving deeper, seeking the mysteries of the kingdom of God. I remember thinking that only members of the church would make it and be living during the millenium. But then read VOG with prayer and fasting and read a different perspective which was highly eye opening. I now concur with you that we will gain the glory we seek by the choices we make. We must be comfortable in the kingdom we live. God will not force us to heaven. We will gain the glory we are willing to live those laws in. I find it funny too, that I keep reminding people that we are in "hell" right now...the Telestial kingdom. So many get their panties in a bunch over that one. Lol.
Also one more thing from President Oaks talk which he’s given to and Elder Christofferson also touched upon it. It’s the laws that each is able to comfortably abide. Every kingdom has a law and that’s why if you can comfortably abide. Now since the majority of the world doesn’t know yet what we know they’ll have their opportunity at some point to be exposed that had they remained if they’ve already passed on or not would’ve comfortably abided. they learn about it because of the type of individuals that they would be I would suspect that’s why things happen in the next life Ordinance work that we do otherwise what’s the point that. Lds are fortunate on earth right now to have this knowledge and the day of probation now is the time to show that you’re willing to use your agency to abide that law of the kingdom as you hear about it and learn about it and comfortably abide in it. And it takes a little more than just about before you were able to comfortably abide in it to the fullest extent which is why we need to savior to cleans us and give us that power to become his sons and his daughters as that’s what he does.
I have always believed that those in the terrestrial and telestial kingdoms will Nash and growel with themselves because they had many chances and choices to be with FATHER IN HEAVEN IN one of the 3 degrees there and were too lazy to learn CELESTIAL LAWS AND WAYS OF LIVING. I believe that if I don't change my ways EXALTATION IS NOT AVAILABLE TO ME and many others, temple or no temple. AGENCY, KNOWLEDGE COUPLED WITH WISDOM IS THE ONLY WAY !!
I would say nourish your testimony within the church sources until you have strength in the spirit of prophecy. Truth is found in many sources, and the spirit bares witness of all truth, even with our friends of other faiths. The gift of discernment is one of the best gifts we should seek after.
Jared is great- but yes, there are various wonderful sources for information.
The temple: don't confuse the Terrestrial "WORLD" with the Terrestrial "KINGDOM" - they ARE NOT THE SAME. The temple NEVER mentions judgement and our inheritance in a kingdom of glory. Also note that the promises made in the temple are future ("the day will come...") and depend upon our faithfulness ("inasmuch as you are true and faithful to your covenants..."). These great temple blessings clearly depend on our obedience and repentance and point to a future day. There is NO discussion in the temple about entering into one kingdom of glory or another.
All comments are good, but only God judges the heart. My grandmother was raised a different religion and never joined the church. She had heard us try to teach her but wouldn’t take to it. This good woman appeared to me in the temple, having previously been baptized via proxy a year after her death. She asked me to do her initiatory and endowment, right then when I entered the temple. I felt her like an angel standing next to me, and went to the desk letting them know what was happening. They found her in the system and I did her work. When doing her initiatory she gave me a profound message, an eternal soul saving, private message. I won’t share that part. Her spirit was so strong I was crying nonstop the whole time, and everyone else was too. I don’t understand how it all works, but we are definitely judged by a loving and all-knowing Father.
That is beautiful. Thank you for sharing! God loves His children immensely.
I experienced a similar visitation with my father in the Temple. He asked me to forgive him( I had tried to teach my parents about the Gospel for a long time, but they thought it was evil, bc of their preacher) I could feel his pain, and it was bad, his work had been done years ago, I felt him becoming clean! Their is repentance and growth in the spirit realm!
hello 👋 from Arkansas 😊
I’ve been taught you can progress in the kingdom you choose to live in, but you cannot hop kingdom to kingdom To
Paul’s administration the the 13 articles of faith doesn’t say seek only from prophet’s words. So I study all things with with the guidance of the Holy Ghost and the prophets’ words and scriptures and to back up or not that which I am studying.
BAHHHHHAHA! Tell Hugh Nibley that you can’t learn truth in other places. Come on!
The key is understanding what it is God wants from us and what is the Tradition of man. Being able to separate that is key.
The thing that those who chose other places like boating shopping on sunday .party today and drink....because tomorrow we die.that is true.there wont be non of that after this life.
I dont know about that! What is the Telestrial kingdom all about? Maybe its like this life only with everyone that wants to stay on this earth with all its sins, and everyone good gone? Just thinking
Scott, 💯🎯, on the nose!
I agree with you on that idea that most if not all will eventually reach the Celestial Glory. My personal revelation says that is false doctrine.
Politics are the world, and honestly, I want nothing whatever to do with. Our system is corrupt, lacking in any sort of moral or ethical compass, and it does nothing but irritate me. I’ve signed out of the political world, and I won’t be back.
… concerning the Twelve Apostles of the Lamb.
Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord.
And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord;
First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord. (D&C 112)
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2)
What need would there be for 3 kingdoms if there was no one to inhabit them?
Also in the doctrine and covenants section 109 it says to seek out of the best books. It doesn't say seek out of the scriptures only. My patriarcle blessing tells me all truth comes from God.
I listen to others and if I hear something that rings true, I then try and corroborate it in the scriptures and General Conference talks.
Zoe Erickson is amazing!
We forget the 13th Article Faith.
I've learned so much about the Bible from Amir Tsarfati (Behold Israel)
The agency of man....THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE!!!
This is false doctrine. . . . There is NO progression between Kingdoms: The following is a quote from Spencer W. Kimball. "After a person has been assigned to his place in the kingdom, either in the telestial, the terrestrial, or the celestial, or to his exaltation, he will NEVER ADVANCE FROM HIS ASSIGNED GLORY TO ANOTHER GLORY. That is eternal! That is why we must make our decisions early in life and why it is imperative that such decisions be right."
@watcherpalmer do you think those in the Celestial kingdom will be able to visit family members in lower kingdoms?
I do.
Agree…..!
Just curious your thoughts on RFK jr. I’ve been following him for years, and I don’t agree with everything he does, but for the most part, I really like what he talks about. Watching his debate live along with the 2 clowns was night and day! He talked about the real issues and gave real solutions.
I have listened to two lengthy interviews with RFKjr. I will just say that there is a good chance I will be voting for him. Honestly, integrity. He is a good soul. That is why he is being ignored. He makes his bed every day, even at a hotel. He goes to 12 steps most every day. He has a morality that is absent in most all political leaders. I love the guy.
@@watcherpalmerlds same. Same. Living in CA. It’s easier for me to vote for him, knowing my state will vote Democrat no matter what. But even still, I wish more people would step outside of the 2 party thought process.
He is a diehard liberal who is all on board with every liberal cause. So if that suits you vote for the guy.
That all will make and not one soul will be lost was satan’s plan.
I think it’s ridiculous not to look at other sources that are truth.
I think the whole thing is to measure what we THINK is truth back to the gospel as taught by the prophets and scriptures. If it doesn't add up - we can't accept is as truth and should put it on the shelf. ie: the theory of evolution does not add up to what the Prophet revealed as the mortal age of the earth. Therefore it should not be seen a source of truth. Also, the act of trying to fit the gospel into the world lens we think is right is the wrong way to go about it. The gospel should be our lens and we fit pieces of 'other knowledge' back into that lens, and if it doesn't fit, put it on the shelf for later, or discard it according to the spirit. We should have the faith to accept as truth the gospel as taught by the scriptures and living prophets and view any other source as "unknown if it's true" until further study. Many parents teach their children to go to school and believe at face value everything their teacher says - this is a recipe for spiritual disaster.
I once saw a sign that read: What happens after you die? Break in and find out.
@@douglasnielson8250 love it!
Well Watcher Palmer, once again for me at least you have knocked 47:10 ot out of the park. I shall save this video for reference.
Question for you or whomever is in Utah. Where are the fresh peache farms? We will be driving through in Aug and I want to pick up some boxes of peaches.
The thing I find about truth is that most people say some true things and other not-so-true. It’s why we have to stay close to the spirit to know what things “unofficial sources” say that are true.
I honestly think we are required to search for truth with the guidance of the Holy Ghost. Seeking knowledge outside of the scriptures and leadership is not wrong. The Constitution was inspired by God and it is not in our scriptures or from prophetic leadership. We are told to get an education. If we are limited to only what comes from the brethren why was president Nelson or any other general authority allowed to get a formal education in any field other than from scriptures and church leadership? Just Curious!! I truly believe we will not all obtain the Celestial Kingdom. We have the agency to choose God or not. We have to accept the consequences of said agency. We can be an agent of Christ or an agent of the devil.
If Jared really believes that you should not look outside of current documentation in the church, then it explains a lot. No wonder he seems to have a fairly limited understanding of the church and doctrine. This is clearly not true!
I agree.
If that’s the case then why didn’t God send Lucifer down in the first place???? Such nonsense!!!
There is one scripture that explains why everyone will not unless everyone actually chose to abide the covenant course through Jesus to get there. There is much we do not know as well still as president oaks suggests.
Here is the scripture note “that one soul shall not be lost”
And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying-Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.
Perfect!
Have you listened to or read any of the scientifically gathered stories of people having Near Death Experiences? They’re not anything like we picture the 3 Kingdom to be. I had one and I can assure you the tunnel and out of body experience is real. Eternity is a loong time. Hell is experienced as well by people deserving it but calling out to God and being rescued from the downward tunnel which I’ve only read about. Repentance and redemption of sins can take place I believe but it’s a harder struggle after death than here. I don’t know the answers but Eternal Progression has a big meaning to me. I’m not sure there’s a final stopping place.
Near death experiences would not experience a kingdom of glory. Those folks would experience realms of the spirit world. Kingdoms of glory come after resurrection.
@@watcherpalmerlds
Thank you for that . The experiences I’ve heard and read are different but all involve a great light and an overwhelming sense of love and peace with no one wanting to come back to earth. And CHRIST is often described as a happy person who teases and laughs a lot. I’m really looking forward to that. I’m educated on the possibilities but stay open to reality because we won’t know till we go through it. My experience was very interesting. I was dying painfully from a very long and difficult child birth and it was as if this mission had ended prematurely and I was fixing to go into a tunnel next to me from the top of the room as I watched all the doctors working on me. I had a calm attitude of an ‘oh well that’s over’ when I heard a baby cry and knew I had to go back so I did through my head. When I awoke I had a new baby girl.
@@watcherpalmerldsJoseph Smith saw in vision his brother Alvin in the celestial kingdom.
@@markturner5207
I think we are all given what we need to accomplish our mission in this life. Some have greater trials than others. Certainly Joseph Smith would qualify for that. I’m sure that vision was exactly what he needed at that time. I was a young 23 year old wife alone in a Navy hospital while my husband and most of our friends were in a war zone being shot down as pilots, killed in action or missing in action or prisoners of war. All because of a lie told by a US president to get us into war. I needed something at the time to remind me God was really there.
@@freethinker1056 I love to read nde’s I find them very hopeful and insightful. I don’t believe every word nor do I hang my testimony on them but I find some truth in most of them.
I can’t imagine our Heavenly Father turning his back on any of his repentant children. I can’t imagine a Father in heaven who would tell some of his wayward children that he will be separated from them forever. You keep the faith sister as Elder Kearon said in his conference talk, God is not putting up roadblocks, he is taking them down.
🌞🌛⭐ 👍
You know…….I'm just so glad that our Father in Heaven will be the one who will make those decisions. But I also know about energy, karma if you will. What goes out does in someway or somehow comes back to you.
Agreed.
The Johnson’s r my gr gr gr grandparents where J S received over 15 revelations.
He healed my grandmother’s hand , Alice Johnson. I tell ya I’ve not been on Cardia only less than 72 hours now having just received it & I notice when I arise each morning my hands don’t feel as stiff, anymore!
I thought the mitochondria was the real goer in our cells not realizing nitric oxide being the spark plug as I study more which are not church books :-)
I’m about your age & was getting symptoms of vertigo, also!
W/o that revelation, dc 76, we wouldn’t have had the word TELEstial not in 1 Cor 15 a word that means MOST distant from God’s throne.
There is a lot more about Eternal Progression that I’ve not room enough to share in this comment section… I’ll drop a few points that requires more length !
1 . Sure , the Lord’s work is perfect -> Moses 1.39 He’s not reveling in multiplying terrestrial & TELEstial kingdoms
2. There is salvation as to our future ; yet, as Cleon Skousen said it’s not permitted for us to teach it now !
Note: The words weeping , wailing , & gnashing of teeth characterizes it so no easy road home
3. It has to do with the Law of Disillusionment
4. And why would we dwell on that b/c no one, with a sound mind (2 Tim 1.7) , wants to delay one’s eternal progress
Note: better it is to be very diligent now -> dc 130.18 so much more we’ll have in the future , an advantage, where we can hit the ground running -> dc 138.55-58!
People r very slow to wake up we saw it during the SCAMgenda (1 Ne 1.21) as the Lord said EVERY one walks after their own image (dc 1.16) & almost all men r about unrighteous dominion (dc 121.39) and so have TO BE SERIOUS about the gospel (Lk 2.52) as Pres Jos Field Smith taught me in 1970 at his solemn assembly when I was ten yrs old he was the 10th prophet !
FEW there be who will get with it (1 Ne 14.12)!
Requires excellence (1 Cor 3.10) everyday , aLwaYs -> dc 20.77,79!
Jared is way too "Mormony" for me. His views are narrow and his spread sheets are a bit much. How does he have time to work his homestead ?😂
I have the same experience and had to stop listening to Jared. The Mormon dogma is just too narrow and closed minded.
The Last Dispensation cha NELL just talked about this also
I agree with your statement that all will not be in the Celestial Kingdom but I haven’t heard the reasoning from those who say differently. I can’t help but think there is a little “straw manning” going on. What seems incontrovertible is: 1) all God’s children have the opportunity to gain celestial life through Christ; but 2) God will force no one to accept/follow Christ. So the question is more of timeframe and opportunity. Can someone change their mind at some future point, after final judgement, and accept Christ? I’m guessing they can but they just won’t. Admittedly, I have no scriptural evidence for that feeling though. Some prophets have suggested there is no progression while others have. I don’t think the doctrine is as clear as you suggest.
The plan is clear. This life is the time for man to prepare to meet God. This experience is the best possible time and type of body to prove ourselves herewith whether we will do all things whatsoever the Lord commands us. There are laws to abide by. We as members have all the law. I can tell you now - if we of all people do not improve ourselves with the time allotted to us, we will not receive eternal glory. We have it all on a silver platter. We will have no excuse when we come before the Saviour and we will know this. If we as members are the ones questioning the gospel and trying to replace it with the false teaching of eternal progression - we are sinning and need to repent. We don't need to worry about anyone else but ourselves and our family whom we have stewardship over. Are we teaching them correct doctrine? Are we modelling what it looks like to be repenting daily and applying the Atonement of our Saviour? That's all we need to worry about...not what happens to our ancestors whom we have diligently completed the temple work for. The Lord is just and merciful - we don't need to hypothesise on doctrine that has never been talked about or set out by the brethren.
@@Jeanie-nv7lo I'm not sure I would be so bold as to declare the thought of progression between kingdoms as "false teaching" or "antichrist". The Church has no official position on whether or not there will be progression between kingdoms. In response to a question regarding progression between kingdoms, the First Presidency directed their secretary In 1952 and, again, in 1965 to respond: "The Brethren direct me to say that that the Church has never announced a definite doctrine upon this point, though some have held the view that it was possible in the course of progression to advance from one glory to another, invoking the principle of eternal progression; others have taken an opposite view." Cited in Dialogue, Vol.15, No.1, pp. 181-182.
Elder McConkie called the Second Chance Theory a heresy, yet J. Reuben Clark was a firm believer in it, “I am not a strict constructionist, believing that we seal our eternal progress by what we do here. It is my belief that God will save all of His children that he can: and while, if we live unrighteous here, we shall not go to the other side in the same status, so to speak, as those who lived righteously; nevertheless, the unrighteous will have their chance, and in the eons of the eternities that are to follow, they, too, may climb to the destinies to which they who are righteous and serve God, have climbed to those eternities that are to come.” J. Reuben Clark, Church News, 23 April 1960, p. 3.
I could list several more on both sides of the isle. And depending on the week, I find myself on one side or the other. Point is, we ought to be careful with as-yet-to-be-revealed doctrine, resisting the urge to condemn one side while holding fast to the other. It's great to discuss and exchange thoughts but until God reveals it, it's in the we-just-don't-know bucket.
@moneymcr - exactly... we should be careful. We are taking about people believing this doctrine as gospel... when there is nothing, NOTHING revealed on the matter. J Reuben Clark shared his belief. That did not make it doctrine. Doctrine is taught by the prophet and affirmed by thy brethren. President Oaks in his most recent talk affirmed the doctrine that we are taught - this time is the opportunity for Men to prepare to meet God. I stand by my comment, it is doctrine and backed up with scripture. Show me a member who is on the covenant path striving to keep the covenants they make, repenting of weaknesses and improving their lives and I'll show you Sunshine who believes Christ at his word and is acting on that belief... they are in a better state than a member who is making covenants, not trying 100% to keep them but would rather hold onto weaknesses and sin and hold onto a teaching that is false until proven or confirmed correct... false according to scripture and quotes from prophets right now... clinging to that false teaching because they don't really want to use their time wisely but would rather say "eat drink and be merry etc". I'm all for that teaching being real, and that we have more chances.. but I don't believe that is part of the plan because it sounds too much like other false regions out there.
From what I have heard, the reasoning, stems from much of the language in the book of Mormon, which presents only two outcomes: salvation (the general sense) and being cut off from the presence of the Lord. If these are the only two alternatives, so the reasoning goes, then all three kingdoms must fit in the salvation prong, and there must be progression within that realm. This view is proffered to counter the “empty chair“ portrayal of the celestial kingdom: how can it possibly be heaven if one or more of my loved ones aren’t there? The idea of progressingbetween kingdoms, then, is to offer a salve to those who believe the “empty chair” dilemma. Don’t worry, your relatives will eventually get there, even if they are late to the party.
@@moneymcr president. Clark’s comments could be construed just as easily as referring to the spirit world as to the three kingdoms of glory. I would suggest that they apply only to the former.
The idea, false as it is, that there is progression between kingdoms isn't new and has been around for years. While God will give us every opportunity while in the second estate, after our final judgement and resurrection we have a permanent body for either a Celestial, Terrestrial, or Telestial glory. And there's no dying after that.
Why would people argue about the details of what will happen after this life when no one really knows?
This view is a copout. There is so much that has been revealed to us and is waiting to be revealed if we will ask the right questions. A more clear picture of the truth will always yield better thoughts, words and actions. My experience is that the answers to many of my questions are hiding in plain sight, there in the scriptures all along. I would encourage you to persist instead of throwing up your hands and saying, we can’t know. We can.
D&C 88:22-24 lds.
Sometimes it is discouraging to listen to people who travel on the fringes dabbling in unsubstantiated belifs and some even to wresting the scriptures to fit their narrative and belief, seeking to draw others into their false doctrines. Then when you try to reason with them you get no where. For some it may not matter for when it is proven they are wrong they will humbly change their thinking, but for others, i fear they will ,when confronted with that crisis, they will leave the church, or even worse become the persecutors of it.
I listened to the first four minutes of Zoe, difficult to keep my attention... I am sure it is good.
I listened to her whole speech. She must have been in a speech class or or a FFA speech team. I'm on a county board and at our yearly state meetings they have teens come in to give memorized speeches. They all use that odd, unnatural speech pattern. I find it difficult to listen to and when I am a judge at the competitions I score the youth higher if they don't do that
@@tjkasglso sad you did not feel the content, by being so consumed with the delivery.
@@watcherpalmerlds Her message was absolutely fantastic. It's the education system training on how to speak which I have an issue with. It is designed to cause the listener to focus on the rhythm rather than the words. Even in the speech competitions I have been part of in the agriculture industry and FFA many of the judges are more focused on the delivery rather than the words spoken.
I am highly impressed with her message and the path she is on. I can't wait to see what she accomplishes as she is far and ahead of most adults
Zoe is my granddaughter and she normally speaks so quickly she's hard to keep up with! We have encouraged her to slow down because we can't think as fast as she speaks.
@@charleseads6552 I was honored to meet your granddaughter and be taught by her.
If you want to progress , better listen to President Nelson and do your progressing right here in mortality!
As far as I know, President Nelson has never said to listen to him. He has said to listen to the Holy Ghost and read scriptures.
@@watcherpalmerlds that’s right !
Do what he said and read your scriptures and Listen to the spirit !💕
@@mikeporter6952 President Nelson was quoting scripture. That is what a prophet should do.
Check out the recent post from The Stick of Joseph about agency.
how’s the weather in Utah Arkansas and Texas are melting 🫠
Just perfect in Utah. 80’s for high and 50’s for low.
Oh Boy!!! Another loop of these things. Every few years these unofficial "doctrines" pop up. I'll pass this time.
Just COW'en on.