David Fincher’s 1st Assistant Editor Knows
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- Опубликовано: 9 июн 2024
- The editing and post-production of David Fincher's Mank. The first 1000 people to use the link will get a one-month free trial of Skillshare Premium Membership: thisguyedits.com/skillshare8
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Netflix’s MANK was leading 2021 Oscars nominations with 10 nominations, including Best Picture and Best Director. First Assistant Editor Ben Insler opens up the editing timeline of the film and shares insights on the editing and workflow process.
#MankEditing #DavidFincherProcess #AdobeWorkflow
00:00 Intro
00:48 Organizing the Dailies
02:51 Multiple Takes
03:48 The Fincher Splitscreen
06:56 The Secret to Dynamic Linking
09:58 Skillshare - Premiere & After Effects Training
11:35 Breaking Into The Biz as Assistant Editor
13:42 Mank vs. Citizen Kanes - Stylistic Similarities
15:04 www.SecretEditingHacks.com - Free Mini-Course
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The editing and post-production of David Fincher's Mank. The first 1000 people to use the link will get a one-month free trial of Skillshare Premium Membership: thisguyedits.com/skillshare8
What camera do you use for this video?
the privilege to edit with such detail and passion is enviable
Very interesting ! Especially that compositing work, makes sense but I had no idea that Fincher and his editors would use it this much 👍
Glad it was helpful!
Then you should seek out the breakdown of Dragon Tattoo. Extraordinary use of CGI
David Fincher is so goated it's crazy. Watching this video changed the way I edit.
I grew up using Adobe premiere - but I do love resolve since I started using it. Everything is within the same app including their 'aftereffects' so you don't even have to open another app. You just fix your shot and go back to editing.
Thanks for sharing this interview - it was cool too see a walk through of how films are made
I'm the same. Started with Premiere, moved to Resolve. When he started gushing about Dynamic Link, I almost laughed.
While it may seem great to a Media Composer editor, it pales in comparison to the Fusion integration in Resolve.
Obviously it’s a good time for me to switch to Resolve from Final Cut 😬
Obviously it’s a good time for me to switch to Resolve from Final Cut 😬
Resolve is laughably better than Premiere in almost every way. Adobe is silly and on its way out.
Yeah I wonder why Sven stated this as unique to Adobe Apps, is he sponsored to say that? Made me a bit angry
Loved how Ben described the technical aspect and creative aspect of editing (Assistant editing) did not need to be separated. So true!
Often these roles we fulfil in post get pigeonholed. Both intersect!
Keep up the good work Sven
Finally a video on a Fincher film!!! Love it!
This is great! To have the assistant editor with the timeline, explaining his workflow is so enlightening.
Hope you get to do more interviews like this.
It’s rare to have these legitimate inside looks at big Hollywood productions, so thank you!
Side note, I that the picture you used for Herman Mankiewicz was actually his brother, Joseph 😁
This video is extremely under rated, and I'm grateful I get to take in just a glimpse of that world. As a filmmaker/premiere editor myself it really helps to see that the techniques I use are somewhat on par with what some of the pros use. Albeit they are on another level, it is inspirational none the less. Thanks for this Mr Edits!
Can’t believe you find these people, so amazing!!
The example and tutorial on what dynamic link can do is beautiful
..can do when it works properly!
As an online editor is very weird to me see a big feature being edited in premiere, but how many times I wish that something like what exists between premiere and after effects could be used within the avid and Resolve workflow. Lovely interview!
This is an insanely high quality and insightful interview
This was so amazing, thank you. I'm so interested in learning more about the process Baxter uses for cutting the scene right away based on multiple camera angles
Thank you so much Sven, such awesome and insightful content as always
My pleasure!
excellent info and video
Should do more of these. :)
excellent video! thanks to you and Ben.
Ben's take on the marriage between creative and technical was of particular interest.
hope to take my edit assisting to this level one day.
thanks for this, your videos always inspire me
Great interview. I can definitely relate to the struggle between technical and artistic.
Really enjoyed watching this video Guy! Having just watched Mank for the first time (and visited Hearst Castle recently), it just made my appreciation of the film all the greater. And as an editor learning about their workflow was really rewarding. I've been doing these masks in Premiere on commercial jobs for a few years now, albeit with help from an AE artist. I might have to learn some more After Effects. Cheers!
Really good video. Fincher is such a technical director but, as the AE said, he is also very creative, it´s the best of both worlds, I guess. The workflow is really important in any situation, but I can´t imagine the degree of organization needed when dealing not only with so many different takes, but takes within takes!
I really enjoyed this. I love just learning about this stuff though I'll probably never have to use any of it in my basic workflow.
Composition... now we understand why David wants so many takes, it gives his editors latitude during the edit. 😎
@9.41 Look at the Icon for Premiere while he's tabbing through the programs, it's a custom icon for Mank Premiere. It's why Fincher uses Adobe, because they (like RED Camera) makes custom shit for him and solves problems when he has them. For the normal Adobe user, you gotta suck it up when something doesn't work....
I love splitting takes into one shot. The first time I remember hearing about this was during some of the promo materials for the Star Wars prequel films. I think way back then Lucas called it "editing in the fourth dimension" or something like that. I also love spreading this technique to others, for some reason people find it mind blowing... as do I. I love it.
What was not explained is how the divider line was fixed on the audience shot. Obviously there are simply ways to do it, but you cannot do it in Premiere when folks were likely not in exactly the same position over the divider line between takes.
@@nickfalzone7955 I think this video is not intended as a tutorial on split screening, so exactly "how-to" is beyond the scope of this particular discussion.
Dynamic link is convenient enough at first, but if you work with it long enough, you begin to see it as your greatest enemy. I for once have gone back to pre rendering everything if it’s not a simple title animation.
You would think that they would be using Media Composer with that being the industry standard. Cool to see them use software available to anyone.
Media Composer subscription is not much more than a Premiere one? Less than the full Adobe Creative Suite... Not that I prefer Avid.
PP can do way more and for less money. With Media composer you gotta buy so many super expensive add-ons to get on the same level as PP.
I hate MC, it cant even copy paste TCs.
MC is only used so widely because it was the first NLE. PP is 100x better. Resolve is getting there, also way better.
@@mrlellol1626 Premiere has it's strengths, but so does Avid. As a career Avid user who also knows Premiere and the old FCP 7, I can say 100% there are everyday editing features in Avid that are far more refined than Premiere. Then again, it's come a long way and either tool is useful.But for team editing, it's still Avid all the way.
@@JimmySaul888 I despise Avid. They are missing standard features and let third party companies sell them for outlandish prices. The fact that you can not copy paste TCs is a joke. I tired 4 times to get into it and every time I had to stop because it was just a frustrating experience.
The only thing that Avid got right is the colorsafe effect.
@@mrlellol1626 Agreed - I used Composer for a decade and here in 2022 they still have not evolved to the point that I would use them. Almost stuck in 90s editing style. Premiere Pro used to be a disaster with crashing but now it is far superior to Avid imo for most (not all) projects.
WOW! This is sooooooooo good.
Thanks, I always learn something
Free mini course! Thanks for offering 👍
Underrated content right here
didn't even realize that this was an ad for adobe haha
Thank you for this video! It's nice to see that even big films are edited with Premiere and After effects:) Could you recommend what type of computers and speed of internet are used for the workflow?
They are also edited with Avid MC (even more common, standard), Resolve (increasingly common) and FCP X (also increasingly common, but still rare -- FCP 7 was very popular though)
@@foljs5858 My experience at least on LA productions is 80% Avid, 10-15% Premiere, then the remainder things like Resolve or FCPX (rare). I personally find Premiere more intuitive and I can edit faster in it than on an Avid. Resolve is great but is still a work in progress IMO not quite up to pro spec for a large production.
Fincher is kinda rare in using these for a mainstream feature. Avid is the go to with Resolve almost exclusively for color
When George Lucas composites two takes in phantom menace I groaned. When Fincher does it, I applaud.
Thankssss
As a Hollywood reality editor who hasn't been able to find the path to scripted, this is great content. Subscribed. Keep up the good work. I found it super interesting Fincher uses Premiere. I was expecting Avid. How common is Premiere in features?
Very uncommon. Fincher's editors use Premiere because of that composting that he likes to do, Premiere can do that more flexibly.
So they've used Premiere Pro for editing of the film that's amazing!
Gold
Awesome episode! Is split screen pretty much not be possible in a moving camera scene?
Hard without motion controlled cameras
great insight but i would HATE to work on a project of this scale in premiere, hats off to those guys
Have you tried it? I use both Composer and Premiere and find it easier to cut these types of projects in Premiere. I swore off Adobe for years because the software would crash, was unreliable when I needed it most. But in the last 3-4 years Premiere has definitely become a force and IMO faster on these types of projects. Avid is great for straight cutting - but Adobe allows you to do a lot more in-sequence.
@@nickfalzone7955 yep, i use pr just about everyday!
I learned to edit with Premiere via a SkillShare trial I got from this channel. Absolutely worth it, for anyone wondering.
Looking forward to the Editing Hacks.👍
Roger deakins had an editor on his podcast a while back, I forget who, who was talking about how he knows a lot of editors and directors that do things this way, but roger and him agreed they almost always liked going with shots as is, instead of doing the split screen. Interesting to hear different takes on this!
Fincher is undeniably talented, and it's interesting to see his process, but Mank is just a lousy snooze. Deakins is right on this one.
@@OliverStJohnGogarty I agree with Deakins as well. I have not seen Mank but there is a pulse to a "real" shot that sometimes (not always) is lost when you do things like a split, or a fake background, etc. Subconsciously you recognize that something is off about the shot. In a movie like Star Wars full of effect, everything is fake so it is less noticeable. But I am not a fan of Fincher's OCD in essentially remaking every shot in post. If the guy has the budget to do 30+ takes, he has the budget to get it mostly right in camera, minus CC etc. Fincher liked to do this on his TV show and it bothered me - full of fake backgrounds/matte shots. It's like, just shoot on a green screen if you're so unhappy with real life.
I am an editor working in bollywood film industry, so I know most of these practices, but the part where the assistant editor cuts the scene with different takes was fascinating to me. I want to ask, is this just David trusting his AE so much that he gets edited rushes/takes or is this a standard practice in Hollywood? Because won't you as an editor want to change the takes and angles depending on the mood of the scene?
Did he change the Premiere logo to say Mank? When he switches from AE and Premiere around 8:30.
Hi Ben!
i am using after effect just for ROTO2.0 tool its really clean after that move to Resolve😂😂
Great video. I wouldn’t take another basic knowledge class, though. I would be open for an interactive learning experience, though, where I apply new knowledge directly in the learning experience.
Do you know about my Go-To Editor Online Course? It follows precisely the concept of the interactive learning experience you just described. It is a course where you receive video lessons, dailies from a feature film to practice with, reviews from my team or myself on the edits you did for the course, and bi-weekly Office Hours, where you can ask questions and get further feedback on your edits. It is not free, but I think it could be something for you, and it might be worth checking out :) Let me know if you are generally interested in checking it out. I can then forward you a link with further information about it.
A very interesting video. It needs to be pointed out however that networking and connections are a significant component in regards to making it as an AE (Assistant Editor). It is a long high climb. Like pushing a rock up a mountain.
There are very few perhaps a couple hundred Hollywood editors. Most editors are working in tv, news, or advertising, along with social media. Hollywood is still a very exclusive club that likes to keep it that way.
The shadow of the man across the floor doesn't match the lighting? There should be multiple shadows? Does this mean that there's a lot of VFX going on? In which case this *isn't* a quick look edit? Or is there some live compositing going on?
Does anyone know why he is editing on Premiere Pro 2019 and not the latest version of PP? Is PP 2019 better than the current version?
probably because they started editing Mank in 2019. thats at least my guess
The movie is from back then...
Wondered the same thing. Funny to see lower right he was dropping a bunch of frames and it was rendering some random crap in the background. 2022 is much better about that.
what specs are they running on their machines to have 4k play so seamlessly in premiere w all that compositing? ive have a very beefy setup with an external gpu, 128 gb of ram and still have issues with 4K in premiere.
Are u sure he was editing in 4k? I'd have to go back, but my guess is that it was in 1080. They were still going back to the negative/DI to make final compositions and edits.
Never seen premiere pro working this good
fax
I wanna see the matte painting version lol.
If only the rest of Adobes catalogue was as good as AE and Premiere... I'm looking at you stone age Photoshop!
7:11 Yeah it sets Adobe apart from other software's all right. You have to have two separate programs running at the same time taxing the hell out of your rig while most other software's such as Davinci have everything conveniently built right into ONE program. Surprised that adobe still boasts this as being one of its selling points.
Fascinating video. Had the pleasure of working with Kirk on a commercial. Let’s just say you do not want to be the one arguing with him.
(He’s always right)
Does anyone know if that Timecode row in Premiere is a plugin or just a specific window to work in?
Thanks!
Must be a plugin - never seen that in Adobe ever.
not a plug-in. I believe you go to window -> timecode, then you can customize where it is and what it shows. Not as good as Avid's timecode display however because it stupidly doesn't have an option to show the individual record in/out TCs, just the in/out duration among other things.
with how buggy premiere can be, dynamic link can tank your project or bring it to it's knees 😂
Premiere as of 2020 on is not particularly buggy - but dynamic link is, bringing in stuff from PS, AE, etc can still tank your project. I stick with pre rendered everything.
Great video, thx!
Though, "Fincher Splitscreen?" :P Many many editors have been resorting to this technique for many many decades ;)
what do you think. If you pre roughly edit the scene based on one take to all the other takes, do you think maybe the editors job starts to become second to the actor. It just feels like you're not cutting on the rhythm of the take, and might get, temp love.
So far and above my capabilities, that I will go over and sit next to the fly on the wall.
Seeing Premiere being used by the big filmmakers makes me so happy lol, I thought it’s more of a noob-y software for editing.
After Effect is 50 times more intimidating.
it's insane what adobe can do. to think i am using software used on an oscar winning film
I mean what he's doing doesn't require much from the software, he could do the same thing on Vegas pro even
@@loukes116 And even Davinci Resolve.
Really appreciate this look into how Fincher's films are made. Am I right to in guessing that this video was sponsored by Adobe? Feels a lot like it was !
While Adobe helped facilitate the interview, they did not sponsor the video or paid us.
@@ThisGuyEdits appreciate the reply! I wish more creators on RUclips were as transparent. Long time fans do care about such stuff.
Also, you replied to my question. The fan in me is 🕺!
Wow didn’t think they used Adobe in Hollywood films
I guess they have a lot of patience with premier, wow!
splitting takes isn't that bad as an editor. It's the assistants and conform artists who have to deal with the nightmare.
Ohhh Mank. I wish I liked you more.
Glad to see logic utilised from set to the edit. Just a pity Americans BAD at OTS shots. Every show, movie there is, all of them have bad OTS shots (referring to the back actor and his/her jaw line which is always out of sync or doesn't move/or move when it's not suppose to.
a little subliminal message at 15:30
Dynamic link is the secret to all the bugs in the adobe suite. #davinceforlife
This is not a first assistant. First Assistant is in the camera department. This dude is an Assistant Editor.
Or the Directing department or the make up department or the editing department
@@ThisGuyEdits nobody thinks that
:)
@@codypeterson9142 believe it or not, first assistant editor is a title that people indeed do hold. It's interchangeable with Lead AE
Fincher needs to switch to Resolve.
everyone needs to switch to resolve
I don't agree with kirk's method in the least. he's baking in an editorial before he's even WATCHED all the takes. absolutely terrible.
you don't want to be an assistant editor. trust me. The only thing worse is being an online editor.
I am sorry but he dropped the ball with Mank so badly. He had so so movies before like Panic Room, Zodiac, Benjami Button but those don't even compare to Mank. Can't win them all i guess. And before you start about the awards... Hollywood loves to award itself.
Dynamic link is convenient enough at first, but if you work with it long enough, you begin to see it as your greatest enemy. I for once have gone back to pre rendering everything if it’s not a simple title animation.
Same - also I don't trust it. I think Premiere and After Effect are great programs - dynamic linking is unnecessary and unreliable.