Good lord The Real Ramona is one of those albums that is just is perfect from start to finish and it totally stands the test of time. It sounds as fresh today as it did 35 years ago.
Finally someone saying what should be obvious. Kristin Hersh is one of the most underrated musicians full stop, her solo albums are superb. Add to that the things she's done to make her own path and avoid the whole awful industry, she was doing listener powered music way before patreon was a thing. If you haven't you should read 'Rat girl' ('paradoxical undressing' in the UK) it's an absolute amazing read based on her diary aged 18 so just in the run up to recording the 1st album and the new book 'seeing sideways' is out next month. Can't wait.🖤
I'm really looking forward to reading 'Rat Girl' - everything I've read about it sounds great. All the stuff I've read about Kristin forging her own way outside of the business and pioneering a fan-funded model for things waaaay before everyone else started doing it is really cool to learn.
@@2020Sound I've been teaching Rat Girl for about 4 years. I was a little afraid of ruining it by putting it into a classroom, but it's just gotten deeper and deeper for me. Like a cool Virginia Woolf. The best rock book I've ever read.
@@goodtunes2 I was visiting a friend in L.A. when that book was coming out. We went to a coffee shop to see Kristen read excerpts from it and get signed copies. It was amazing! She graciously listened to me blather on about how I've been a fan since the 80's, blah blah blah!
I love how Kristin Hersh describes her music - “owning violence”. Leslie Langston the bass player never gets any credit for her fabulous basslines, which carry the songs along in this fabulous fluid way so that you don’t even notice the drastic key and rhythm changes. And yes - they were all kids when they did this. Cocteau Twins were the same - all wee babies when they made their first records. 4AD were a great label who nurtured their talent and let them do what they wanted to without demanding they sell lots of records. The Pixies were lucky they knew Kristin Hersh otherwise they probably would’ve disappeared.
Leslie gets Lots of credit, like on bass player forums, lists of women bass players, existing fans. There's perfect bass playing there! She was a big piece of the image package of what the band was too, overseas as well. She said she chose to join them because they had a "catchy modern sound". It was a joke and it was true. She studied funk like religion. The Pixies were their own thing and would have happened if the Muses hadn't, but they fed into each other melodically. I saw them at TT The Bears Cambridge and The Rat, Kenmore Squ. The 1st Muses album was like Sergeant Pepper had been as far as refreshingly new.
I was in college when House Tornado came out, and that record was everywhere at the time. Then I went home for the summer and found out they were this little cult band. There was such a huge divide between college radio and the mainstream at the time, and a lot of truly amazing music never got a fair hearing in the broader culture. Run Letter still blows me away and takes me back to those times.
I've been following Throwing Muses for decades now and I'd agree that they are very underrated. I've seen them numerous times throughout the years, but my favorite was in San francisco in 2001. It was a weekend event. Friday night was a Kristen solo gig at a church, Saturday afternoon everyone was invited to sound check and afterwards the band invited fans on stage to sing the Muses song of their choice. Throwing Muses karaoke with the band backing you up. It was a blast. That evening was a Throwing Muses reunion concert and Sunday morning was breakfast and mingling with the band. As a fan, I so appreciated them making the effort to spend time with their fans. I've never seen a band do anything similar for their fans.
Been a fan of the Muses from the beginning and whilst I admit that "The Real Ramona" is certainly their most polished, commercial and and successful (?) album you can't beat the first eponymous LP, closely followed by "Hunkpapa" and then "The fat skier/House tornado". Also make sure you read "Rat Girl" by Kristin Hersh which is an excellent read and an insight into the early years of the band. Kristin's solo work is also superb, as is Tanya's work with Belly and of course the phenomenal Breeders. Now where did I leave my shredded ill fitting Hunkpapa T-shirt.............
everytime i listen to it there are two spots especially that give me cold chills and i start to cry spontaneously and involuntarily. Only song in the world that does that to me.
Kristen Hersch is one of the most brilliant but also strangest songwriters, and yes she claims that her songs started coming to her fully formed after a head injury when a car knocked her off her bike at the age of 16. They read like surrealist poetry channeled through a very drunken Charles Bukowski, but are sung with a distinctive feminine charm. I have to be honest I don't understand half of her lyrics, and I've been listening since the 80's when they were part of the local Boston music scene playing in run-down clubs like The Rat. She should also be listed among the best female guitar players. Kristen still pops up in little run-down Boston bars from time to time with her guitar.
You used "run-down" twice. The Rat would be on the national register if it wasn't valuable real estate in later years. I saw TM there early in their run. It was the Boston stop for many famous band's first or third national tour. Locals opened so it was a service to the scene. You are right about Kristen channelling and her guitar skill (which isn't a mental disorder at all).
I had a friend in 1988 give me a dubbed off tape called Lonely as an Eyesore. A compilation of bands from some label I'd never heard of called 4 A.D. Song after song on that tape opened me to a world that I didn't know existed. What amazing sounds were coming from these bands that was like nothing I'd ever heard before. Sometime around 1993 or 94, we finally got to see Throwing Muses. The opening band was The Flaming Lips.
Must reads by Kristin: Rat Girl and Seeing Sideways… For years, many TM songs would make me burst into tears involuntarily: the part in Vicky’s Box (best song in the world imo) where she sings, “this I’ll be all right?” and the whole gorgeous denouement after “WELCOME HOMMME!!”; the high notes in “And a She Wolf After the War;” Cry Baby Cry’s “I wanna cry / on a roof”…I’d be in mid sentence and just sob. There’s a scientific reason for it, same reason you break out in goosebumps at a song (which also happens) - so weird. I’m so glad you discovered them.
Whilst everyone is chiming in about the early material (which is incredible, my gateway drug was also The Real Ramona) but the later stuff when they reverted to a three piece with Bernard Gerges on bass is sublime. Absolutely amazing stuff.
I was amazed because the entire experience fits me as well. I am a huge fan after only really listening to Throwing Muses a few weeks ago, and equally bewildered how I overlooked them in the first place. I have known the name for years, but unlike the pixies of whom I’m a long-term fan, no one has ever shaken me by the arm and said “ You’ve gotta LISTEN to this.!” It was also very well presented here- so much so that I immediately subscribed to the channel. I recognize another serious music nut when I hear one! Nice job.
They've been a favourite band for decades, in part, because of their incredible, tight and hypnotic live shows. Hearing Hersh's voice live can be the sweetest thing, or skewers to the temples sharp; compelling stuff. It's hard to pin down a best or favourite album of theirs; I've never tired of any of them and they all have something worth re-visiting. It is House Tornado and Limbo, however, that I re-visit most. I hold Kristin Hersh's solo work in equal regard to the Throwing Muses catalogue, and like the TM records they all have a distinct sound and quality to them. Hips And Makers is a fantastic album and was quite successful, though nothing like the incredible Sunny Border Blue. It may not be to everyone's taste but her album covering Appalachian folk songs, Murder, Misery And Then Goodnight, is a wee gem. Throwing Muses together and with their solo projects have produced a body of work unequaled, in my opinion.
I graduated from HS in 91, started community college locally, and found a college radio station --> that is where I first found the Muses (glad you finally did too)! I picked up the Sire "Just Say...", in this case "Just Say Yes", and found the Muses again. Shortly thereafter Belly was in full swing on MTV...I had the biggest crush on Tonya Donelly and to this day think she / her sister / that band are one of the more critical (& agreed underrated) pillars of modern indie.
Brilliant video which I spent the majority of nodding fervently in agreement. So great to see someone discovering the Muses and all the tendrils that come off them. The Real Ramona is a fantastic album. Counting Backwards, Not Too Soon, Two Step, Honeychain, Graffiti... a completely overlooked record, perhaps because it was competing with so much in 1991. I swear if it dropped today it would be revered with Pitchfork red decimals and some hardcore reddit stanning. You are absolutely right - there's nowhere near enough discourse on this really amazing band. Hersh is a firebrand, a truly unique voice in indie. I'm also a huge Donnelly fan (if you'll pardon the tired critical trope I always though she was McCartney to Hersh's Lennon - the charismatic press friendly pop auteur to Hersh's troubled rock savant). On a personal note I saw Belly support REM at Milton Keynes when I was an awkward teenager and Tanya's performance blew me away. They were promoting the King LP at the time, which I think is one of her most underrated works. A bit more conventional pop rock than the Muses or Belly's debut, but the title track and Now They'll Sleep are absolute classics. Anyway that was the pivot point that got me into the Muses. Keep up the great content
Thanks very much! I'll definitely be exploring Belly (not a sentence you get to type often, that, is it? 😄) very soon. It's been fun watching interviews with both stepsisters - they both seem like really nice, really intriguing people. Good company, even if only through a screen.
Donnelly's Whisky Tango Ghosts is absolutely beautiful. I agree she stands as a great composer and performer in her own. Indeed, I think The Breeders were at their best when she was in the band.
House Tornado is their best album in my opinion. It's such an amazing atmospheric soundscape. Some of the songs on that have about as many views on RUclips as this video does. Who knows why they're not more well known. Honestly, though I don't really care; success tends to spoil bands, whilst, as you point out, Kristin Hersh is still putting out good music. I guess I feel a bit bad for her as she probably feels a bit wistful about it. Well done for making this video though.
I completely agree about House Tornado. As soon as it was released it climbed into my soul and scratched away until the songs were etched into my being, never to be released, never to be forgotten.
First heard them when hanging around Central Sq, in summer of '84 or '85. I made a cassette recording off a friend's cassette of an early demo. Quality was piss-poor, yet I played that thing again and again; blown away with Hate My Way and Call Me. Tempo shifts and melodic mood swings were like nothing I'd heard and it felt like who I was at that moment: desperate longing, depression, anger, yet knowing the world's beauty in a song's perfect moment: "I make you into a song/I can't rise above the church/I'm caught in a jungle, vines tangle my hands..." then "I can't find the ice..." Definitely had a crush on both Tanya and Kristin equally back then. Sorta still do.
They will have their day of widespread recognition. Their music is too good and real and timeless. Also, they have a large cult-like group of die hard followers. Might be after we are all dead, but they will have their day ! And we can rejoice together in heaven.
I would recommend TM albums “University” & “Limbo” from 1995 & 1996. Chronologically there’s then a slew of excellent solo albums by Kristin “Hips & Makers”, “Sky Motel”, “Sunny Border Blue”& “Strange Angels” which are all very different, but all excellent. Probably avoid “The Grotto” unless you’ve fallen in love with her first.
You're completely right. Only just "discovered " them recently and can't get enough of them. Vaguely remember seeing a clip of "Counting Backwards" on The Chart Show but that's about it.
I was obsessed with "Cry Baby Cry" when it played on the college radio station, but ironically I ended up owning almost every one of their records before I re-discovered that one. Their songs are so moving. "Two Step" makes me think of my daughter and makes me cry sometimes. What a wonderful band, such wonderful music.
I saw them for the first time live when they were touring Real Ramona. It was easily, and far away, in the top 3 best of hundreds of live shows I've seen. They were absolute giants, and massively under-appreciated.
Loved Throwing Muses for years - first got into them when Belly’s “Star” came out, and devoured the back catalogue. I agree with you The Real Ramona is a masterpiece. Interestingly, I think Tanya was more of the lead guitarist by that stage, and certainly much of the abrasive stuff on Hook in her Head was played by Tanya live (there’s a video of them doing that on German TV somewhere on RUclips). I’ve seen the band many times, but never saw them with Tanya and Kristin together - until Tanya Donelly supported Throwing Muses on their tour in support of Purgatory/Paradise. Towards the end of Throwing Muses set, Tanya joined Kristin, Bernard and Dave on stage for songs from the debut, Hunkpapa, and Real Ramona. It was so special to see them singing and playing together. Kristin Hersh really pioneered the whole fan-funded model that things like Bandcamp and now Patreon have developed, through her Strange Angels - she has really (and rightly) rejected the whole music industry machine. Such an amazing band. If you want to dive deeper check out The Kristin Hersh archives on Twitter and Tumblr! Great to see you discovering them and spreading the word!
Tanya was definitely lead guitarist by the time of 'Ramona, as she was during her short time in the original Breeders. Interestingly, the songs that make up Belly's 'Star' LP were originally demoed as The Breeders 2nd LP, wit Kim Deal playing guitar and backing vocals. Kristen says she plays live in a trance, and can only remember her lyrics on stage if she is in that fugue state. I prefer the 2nd stage 3 piece Muses with Bernard Georges to the 80's Muses... and lastly David Narcizo is one of the best drummers in alt rock. Just listen to 'Pearl'. His latest output on 'Purgatory Paradise', and the new album is Bonham'esque. Great band, as are Kristen's ultra thrashy 50 ft Wave (check out 'Power and Light' ep), Tanya era Breeders ('Pod'), and Belly. 'Real Ramona, and 'University' are my Muses fav's. 'Learn to Sing Like a Star' is my fav. solo Kristen. It may even be the best album of the lot, but what does it matter - they are all great!
First heard "Fish" on the 1987 "Lonely is an Eyesore" 4AD compilation LP, but never heard of them again, despite living in a city with 2 university radio station! Until checking out a friend's CD collection and saw "University", which i just loved, and bought Limbo when it came out. Didn't explore the earlier CDs until 10 years ago with streaming music.
"Fish' is a bit like Led Zeppelin's "Four Sticks' with this pulverising rhythm constantly tightening-up and relaxing as if the person singing and playing the guitar is trying not to lose their temper. Its a fabulous piece of music!
Not sure I can ever explain it. They just rock. TM have been a part of my life since they appeared on the 4AD compliation "Lonely is an Eyesore". I brought the cd home on a Wednesday, and by that Friday, I was going down to Champaign IL to see them live at Mabels. Kristen Hersh has this beautifully dense way of writing and speaking. Every word weighs a ton, yet it's all so much fun. She's also sweet as pie, and i'm a fan for life.
The Real Ramona is a gem of an album. It never gets old. One song not mentioned here is the last song of the album, "2 Step". What an amazingly simple and beautiful song. Perfect ending. (I decided 30 years ago that I wanted this song played at my funeral... and have never changed my mind.)
ABSOLUTELY. Been a huge fan in the U.K. since 1987. I reviewed "Chains Changed E.P." and "House Tornado" LP for our local alternative newspaper, then saw them and Pixies play live at Leeds Poly (as it then was). I was blown away by them completely and became hooked. Not only were they the first U.S. band to sign to 4AD, but their first three records were only released here in the U.K. Love Kristin & Tanya's solo work, and remember the video for Belly's "Feed The Trees" on U..K. TV one of my favourite songs of the 90s. "The Real Ramona" is their flawless masterpiece and the most accessible entry point, but "University" is also superb and worth checking out. For someone who's known them for 35 years, I'm glad younger people are rediscovering them all over again. My channel has two Muses playlists for those who want an introduction (not a plug, I don't monetise), part one is their early work with Tanya & Leslie, part two as a trio of Kristin, Bernard, and David. Thanks for this long overdue review of the band 20/20, I wonder if you're familiar with Boston's late 80s/early 90s indie rock band Salem 66, a similar three wimmin and one guy line-up. Brilliant group, I have a playlist, and like 20/20 I was unaware of them originally and only discovered them 30 years too late.
Yeah... "Not to soon" Hooked me...and when Belly formed, I was in love. Their 2nd album KING, and the US tour that followed, went to 40 Belly shows in 38 states... Best time of my life. Got to gang with Belly, Tanya signed old Muses albums, got to meet Jewel as she was just starting out...It's an experience I wouldn't trade for anything!
If anybody's digging in, don't sleep on their first EP called Chains Changed. It's four epic songs that are so winding and crazy and unexpected and moving. It's on RUclips for sure. Easily my favorite EP ever from anybody. It's so intense and detailed for a debut. You're right, the talent came early and hard for these powerful peoples.
I've been listening to Throwing Muses since the early 90's. Real Ramona is one of my favorite albums of all time. They are such a unique and expressive band, and it's always a different experience listening to them than any other band. Is there any better compliment to an artist than the fact that they are completely unique?
Saw them live in 1991 at Cambridge Junction. They were very very good. Really intense performance and Hersh is really captivating. The drummer brilliant. Claim to fame - Tanya Donelly gave me a kiss after the gig!
I'm from R.I. too, a couple of towns over from them, and I've loved this band since their first album. My daughter was born the year that record came out, so I felt I was too old and didn't have the time to see them in concert. I finally got a chance to see them live at a club in Boston with the Screaming Females (tremendous show) and I took my kids (they grew up hearing the Throwing Muses and were young adults by then). It was a great night. Really underrated band.
i just found this video. Thanks for bringing more attention to Throwing Muses. TM have been my favorite band since I was 20 (36 years ago). But my favorite thing about your video is the comments. You can see that TM fans are a cut above most people, fully understanding not only what actual indie rock is, but what a genius Kristin is as a songwriter, guitar player, lyricist, and author. Everyone below my comment has said something super important, so read them all. Great video, introduction, and mostly "cheers" to this group of commenters.
I found Real Ramona at a used CD store in San Antonio. Took that CD on a 11 hour road trip with some friends. They didn't quite know what to think of it. I loved it.
the following comment is spot on. The Real Ramona gives the Pretenders debut album real competition for one of the best studio albums in alt-ruck history.
I live in Italy and in the late 80s Indie music from the UK and the USA used to have a remarkable audience around here among youngsters. That was down to good domestic music press, introducing us indie rock kids to the exciting bands from overseas. It so happened that 4AD gained popularity in our Country and I personally came across Throwing Muses very early. I actually remember buying their first album in 1987, pretty much a few months after it got released in the UK, and it really blew me away. And I've been a fan ever since...
In 1986, as a fan of 4AD records, I borrowed Throwing Muses self-titled LP from a friend. I remember the first time I played it on my stereo and it changed my life. Since then, I've followed Throwing Muses/Kristin Hersh and during that early time wondered why The Pixies got all the accolades. I loved the Pixies, sure, but connected with the Muses on such a deep level. I've met Kristin Hersh many times over the years and she has always been amazing to talk to. Thanks for the video, it's so nice to see younger folks discovering this band.
Glad you enjoyed it, Carmen! As much as I enjoy the Pixies, I don't get why they overshadow TM so much either. Only thing I can think - at least for my group of friends growing up - is the Nirvana connection. We almost certainly all discovered the Pixies as a direct result of getting into Nirvana. Without Nirvana tipping their hat to them, perhaps the Pixies would've remained more of a cult band too 🤷♂️
@@2020Sound Actually, my theories about Throwing Muses being overshadowed is mostly because their music is so manic and disjointed. With all the tempo changes and chord changes and Kristin's voice and lyrics, they weren't the easiest band to 'get into'. You either connected with it or you didn't. The Pixies were a lot more accessible in my opinion. Also, back then, there still weren't many women fronted bands, esp. the likes of Kristin Hersh. I'm sure they weren't taken as seriously because of that.
@@CDIII All that, plus they never had a super famous patron like Cobain to big them up in the press in quite the same way. Maybe Cobain just didn't have many Throwing Muses records, he did say he loved the Breeders though.
@@2020Sound Pixies overshadowed Throwing Muses way before anyone knew who Nirvana were, Pixies headlined Reading Festival in 1990, they were massive (for an indie band) Throwing Muses never had that kind of appeal or following. ... as to why? I don't know, they were label mates but that aside I don't think they had that much in common. I always thought of Throwing Muses as being more in the 'mellow dreamy indie' type camp, they were way too mellow for my tastes in the late 80's. Pixies, Dinosaur Jr, Mudhoney, Lemonheads etc. Maybe Pixies just had more 'crossover' appeal to a wider audience?
Throwing Muses has 2 distinctive sounds. There are the songs that Kristen wrote, and songs Tanya wrote. Kristen’s songs were a little darker, and deeper. Tanya’s songs are a bit more pop like.
Great video!. I wonder if tanya Donelly subsequent success with the breeders and then belly can make music fans prone to overlook throwing Muses-slightly like overlooking Joy Division because of New Order.
Thanks! Probably because of my age and location, Belly are pretty much just as new to me as Throwing Muses (I think I had a compilation with a song of theirs on back in '97, but that's about it.) The only Breeders stuff I'd heard was after Tanya had left, too (bits from 'Last Splash' onwards, basically). Whilst looking up their history, I spotted that Belly got a Rolling Stone cover in '95, though, so im guessing they were pretty well known at one point, at least in the U.S.? So maybe you're right and that does overshadow TM in some folks' eyes!
@@2020Sound Yes, in fact Belly were actually fairly popular In the “alternative rock” charts here in the US.Their success was well deserved of course. If you’re interested Tanya Donelly did a collaboration with Catherine wheel on a song called Judy staring at the Sun you might want to check out
"...a boy who was tangled in his bike forever, a girl who was missing two fingers.." - HATE MY WAY. 32 years after hearing that haunting song for the first time, I still get emotional! I highly suggest finding 'The Curse' a live album, so energetic and melodic it's unbelievable!!
I saw them at Glasto 89 alongside Pixies, totally stole the gig. Real Ramona was an incredible tour and Tanya's solo stuff is fantastic! Great great band
I first heard Throwing Muses when I was in college, in 1993. My sister-in-law worked at a record store and would give me tons of promo discs. One day she cleared out most of the old promos, and one of the ones she found was a compilation from several years earlier, and it had a Throwing Muses song called "A Feeling" on it. It sounded like literally nothing else I'd ever heard, and I immediately went on a quest to get as much of their catalogue in my hands that I possibly could. House Tornado, Hunkpapa, The Real Ramona, and Red Heaven were in near constant rotation for me once I found them. Kristin Hersh is criminally underrated.
Another great choice! Loved the info about Kristin Hersh. I’ve met her and she’s really sound. Donna Matthews from Elastica always reminded me of Tanya Donnelly. They both favour minor chords and lyrics with a fair degree of ennui about them. They’re also both very cool!
Liked this one as we'll just after watching your piece on the Chameleons. I love this band so much and saw them a couple of times on the double header they did with the Pixies. The self titled debut is an immense album. I absolutely love their early work but at the same time can find it a bit traumatic to listen to- it leaves a big impression. My favourite on Real Ramona is Red Shoes still sends shivers down my spine.
Glad you discovered them! I discovered them when Hunkpappa was released, for me at a college record store. I then found House tornado and their debut album as a CD ‘import’ since that album was never released here in the US. House Tornado was even better than Hunkpapa and the green (debut) album is still one of the best albums of all time for me. When listening to it i am completely engrossed from start to finish. I saw them live in Iowa City on their Real Ramona tour. Kristin’s presence on stage especially back then was so intense. From that concert I was instantly a David Narcizo fan for life. The man is a beast on those drums. Thanks for sharing your discovery of the band! Pitchfork recently did a retro album review of the first Throwing Muses album btw. Its worth a read.
The most random sequence of clicks led to me searching for this band today, and to my happy surprise in finding a current video about them! Thanks for reminding me: at its best, this what the internet is for.
You are so right! I grew up in Rhode Island in the 1980s. They got lots of play on WBRU, a once really good college radio station. I'm sure people much hipper than me can tell you more about the scene back then, but there was a really good ecosystem of left-of-the-dial radio stations and clubs along interstate 95... New Haven, Providence, Pawtucket, and Boston (of course NYC, too). I really, really wish I saw the Throwing Muses, back then (not sure why I hadn't), but it is great that they are still making really good music. I learned a great deal from your video and enjoyed hearing your thoughts on the music. You mention Husker Du, but I think they are very much remembered... I would say Miracle Legion is a better example of a similarly underrated band, no, from that era and region? Thoughts?
I was hooked when "Lonely Is an Eyesore" emerged in '87. The first I saw them was when they played Lollapalooza and I have tried to see them or Kristen ever since.
I bought Red Heaven after hearing Firepile on KUGR my freshman year in college. It opened my eyes to the Pixies, The Sundays, The Breeders, etc. Later to bands like the Cranes, Echobelly, and Collection d”Arnell-Andrea. Throwing Muses completely transformed my musical evolution from radio pop to indie. Thank you Kristin, Tanya, et al. Tip o’ the hat for your plug for Bob Mould and Sugar (and subtly to Husker Du). 😃
I saw them in the late 80’s in Newport, RI. They were so natural, so true. They lived the music. They remind me of U2 not for the actual music but just talent without training. Pure talent. Not too soon is pure magic. If they had a better video director, they would have been big!!! Thank you for your expose in them.
Lucky you!!! Grew up in eastern CT, spent many happy Saturday and Sunday afternoons/evenings in Newport after playing in league soccer games on the fields at Fort Adams. One of my biggest regrets is not seeing them play one of the local places while they were doing that circuit. I often wonder if I'd missed a show during one of those lazy Saturday or Sunday afternoons. Enjoyed TM and Belly from the start... Being local Newport kids, they got a lot of air time on 95.5WBRU out of Providence, even after they moved up to Boston. Wish I could turn back the clock to those days... Could have, should have spent a lot more time around the Providence and Boston music scene!
i was really lucky to discover them on late night mtv with the video of "bright yellow gun" back when i was 17...but yeah even my friends who were into 90's alt rock had no idea who they were, so i ended up introducing them to a lot of people
I'm more of a fan of Belly (who I have seen live twice, brilliant concerts both times, they played a lot of the old songs from Star and King but as well new ones from the excellent Dove album) but yes Throwing Muses were a great band! I also saw Kristin Hersh perform here in Cambridge a couple of years back. Someone below mentioned Tanya Donelly's recent record with the Partington Sisters, I reallly like that, especially the cover of Echo & the Bunnymen's Ocean Rain. I also noticed that more recently she appears as a guest vocalist on the self-titled album by Aaron and the Lord, and has a new project with Brian Sullivan called The Loyal Seas.
I've asked the same question since I first heard them in 1988 when I worked at Tower Records. Every time i get the same answer from myself: YES< YES THEY ARE AND IT"S A VENAL SIN. Thank you for this video, I love this band so much.
Just watched this video. Very nice intro. Wish there was more of an album history or timeline, but that's for another chapter. The song that hooked me on Throwing Muses, and is still wonderfully hooky to me is Juno from the House Tornado album. I remember seeing the video somewhere, and hearing this very very different song structure, thinking, "What the hell is this?!" All in a
Totally agree. Saw them back in the 90s. Can't believe they weren't bigger! I got into them when I bought a CD single EP. I then bought their album 'The Real Ramona'. They were indeed underrated. And more people should know about them! I think what happened was Brit Pop became the music media focus and they lost out.
Someone else in the comments asked me what planet I've been on to have not really encountered them before now 😄. But Britpop was essentially my entry point to music fandom and (I'm assuming you're British too) from that time onwards, I'm sure I'm right in saying Throwing Muses have had extremely little exposure over here!
The links between the Throwing Muses (Real Ramona age) and the Breeders Pod album are worth looking into. Pod is also my absolute favorite Albini Recording.
I also recently found out about this band just recently. In my case, I saw them mentioned while I was reading old Cocteau Twins interviews. I also have an interest in that earlier "4AD sound", so I'll definitely have to dive into their albums. Speaking of 4AD, another 4AD band worth checking out is Dif Juz. Hardly anyone has ever heard of them, but they have been described as being sort of post-rock before Talk Talk's Spirit of Eden.
They are BRILLIANT! We grew up close to them, so we were able to check them out LIVE , so many times@ The Rocket, Lupo’s, Club Babyhead ! ❤ “I could be a smack freak And hate society I could hate God And blame Dad I might be in a Holocaust Hate Hitler Might not have a child And hate school I could be a sad lover And hate death I could be a neuro And hate sweat No I hate my way”🎼🎶
The memorable thing about a Kristen Hersh show, above the music, were the stories she would tell between the songs. I never saw the Muses in the 90s, but I saw Kristen solo multiple times, and 50 Foot Wave. The best show I remember was with Grant Lee Philips and John Doe. The duets they did were wonderful. It's also fun to play her music on a guitar. *Flooding*, for instance. Watch her fingering in the Christchurch video
Centered in the city of Providence, Rhode Island; the alt rock scene in New England in the late 80s and early 90s was glorious. You could walk into Lupo's or Babyhead most any night and hear something fresh and intense. I was lucky enough to see the band live only once but holy crap they delivered the groceries. You could tell that the loved ever second on stage! They and the Talking Heads are the only two band I know of who sounded better live than in the studio. Thank you for this wonderful presentation: Band, if U R out there.. Respect. (20/20: suggestion for another episode, A 90s Boston band called "Tribe"; incredible stuff and fascinating story)
I went to same college as Kristin (Salve)- her father was my philosophy professor. Saw them first in the late 80s in Providence (Hunkpapa era). Been a fan since. Saw Kristin most recently in 2019 in the UK. She still records prolifically and has written two memoirs.
"Not Too Soon" is one of the greatest songs ever. I saw them in 1991 (when the lead guitarist was exactly as pregnant as she is in the 4AD video for that track--which was somehow really endearing, even to my stupid teenage punk rock brain at the time) at The Chameleon in Lancaster, PA, and they were phenomenal. For some reason, the tracks I paid for from iTunes (including Not Too Soon) were deleted from my devices by Apple when that whole thing went down, which prompted me to abandon streaming music permanently and continue to collect hard copies of anything I really care about to this day. Glad to see someone giving them the respect they deserve!
Lucky you (seeing them live back in the day)... I had my head up my ass when it came to looking for and going to live shows back then. Wish I would have put in the effort, so many good female led bands from the late 80's to mid-90's. Would have loved to have caught the Muses or Belly when they did some local shows (RI or Boston area), especially in their hometown. Oh the things I'd do if I had a time machine...
In my late teens, when I was just discovering everything from Noise to Post Punk, Throwing Muses blew my mind... It's such a flashback to hear any of it... Thanks so much for working on this video.
I discovered them on KDVS Davis college radio in California in 1988. Fish from the lonely is an eyesore 4AD comp. They were my personal private band that only I liked in my group. I remember when the Real Ramona came out. When my husband and I met in 1998, he had the University CD in his disc changer and I knew that we would be together forever 😅 We were both team Kristin which also solidified our connection (We love Tanya too but you know what I mean) I was super into her solo work too and I've seen the band and her perform numerous times in the '90s. My Facebook profile asks me what school I went to. My reply is, Throwing Muses University.
I picked up a used cassette tape of The Real Ramona in the mid-90s and have been hooked ever since. I saw them live once and the energy on stage was intensive and tight. i think some of the drumming is some of the best i've heard in rock/indie. I also recommend University. I really appreciate Hersh's lyrics- direct, relatable, unpopular. she captured difficulties in parenting at the same time i was a new mom- what can be a taboo topic and something that women don't often get to express. Red Heaven is an angry album and I love blasting Furious when I feel pissed off! Thanks for showing this band off!
Belly, (Tanya Donelly's post Throwing Muses band) is also underrated, Belly's Star is one of the best alternative rock releases of the 90's, the follow up King was also excellent.
Well, my introduction was the 4AD compilation Lonely is an Eyesore, with their excellent single Fish. Got it in summer of 87. The label even named the record from a line in the song. Got hooked (no pun intended). I went back to the same shop looking for more Throwing Muses. Found the Chains Changed ep (all great songs- Cry Baby Cry, Reel, but Finished is the pick of the litter). That winter I found the Fat Skier but it didn't have the same punch. Hersh's Hips and Makers is worth a listen. Ghost in You with Michael Stipe is decent. Thanks for the video.
Whoh man, I think you nailed it! Me and my friends were super into the muses right from the beginning. KCRW in LA turned us on to them with the song fish. It was on a 4ad compilation albukm that also featured the pixies. And they were awesome live too. One if my all time favorite shows! I hadn’t known they were so young. Anyway check out the song Fish and thanks for this great documentary 🌊🏄♂️🌱☀️
Right on. I’m glad someone finally made a video about this band. Thank you! I’ve been a fan since I first heard them on the 4AD compilation Lonely is an Eyesore back in 87. Big fan of Belly and Kristen Hersh’s solo stuff too.
Really nice video. I'd have missed TM if I hadn't picked up a 4AD promo CD from the music store I frequented as a student (too many years ago). It was one of those things I could easily have missed, or just decided not to bother. But it had all sorts of odditiies on like Red House Painters, Tarnation (who I still love), and also Throwing Muses, who are - as you say - extraordinarily good. Still one of my favourite bands, and both Tanya and Kristen are brilliant solo artists.
Thanks for highlighting this and creating a resource for those discovering the fave established band. I'd known their name through their association with 4AD, but only gave them a conscious listen a few days ago. It's been such a surprise and joy. Besides reminding me of the Pixies, some of their early stuff has the Smiths (guitar), and I definitely hear elements that Lush or even Sleeper took up (that's Donelly's more pop penchant).
Having seen them live Dave Narciso has one of the heaviest drum sounds around, while the mention of U2 normally elicits derision there’s something about a marching band which lends itself to strident drumming. I think if you asked Dave Ghrol he’d he’d have something positive to say about Throwing Muses
Good lord The Real Ramona is one of those albums that is just is perfect from start to finish and it totally stands the test of time. It sounds as fresh today as it did 35 years ago.
Finally someone saying what should be obvious. Kristin Hersh is one of the most underrated musicians full stop, her solo albums are superb. Add to that the things she's done to make her own path and avoid the whole awful industry, she was doing listener powered music way before patreon was a thing. If you haven't you should read 'Rat girl' ('paradoxical undressing' in the UK) it's an absolute amazing read based on her diary aged 18 so just in the run up to recording the 1st album and the new book 'seeing sideways' is out next month. Can't wait.🖤
I'm really looking forward to reading 'Rat Girl' - everything I've read about it sounds great. All the stuff I've read about Kristin forging her own way outside of the business and pioneering a fan-funded model for things waaaay before everyone else started doing it is really cool to learn.
@@2020Sound I've been teaching Rat Girl for about 4 years. I was a little afraid of ruining it by putting it into a classroom, but it's just gotten deeper and deeper for me. Like a cool Virginia Woolf. The best rock book I've ever read.
@@goodtunes2 lucky students! So excited for the new one.
Loved Rat Girl. Highly recommend!
@@goodtunes2 I was visiting a friend in L.A. when that book was coming out. We went to a coffee shop to see Kristen read excerpts from it and get signed copies. It was amazing! She graciously listened to me blather on about how I've been a fan since the 80's, blah blah blah!
Hersh is a force of nature. The Fat Skier pierced through with a gripping, tribal emotiveness.
I love how Kristin Hersh describes her music - “owning violence”. Leslie Langston the bass player never gets any credit for her fabulous basslines, which carry the songs along in this fabulous fluid way so that you don’t even notice the drastic key and rhythm changes. And yes - they were all kids when they did this. Cocteau Twins were the same - all wee babies when they made their first records. 4AD were a great label who nurtured their talent and let them do what they wanted to without demanding they sell lots of records. The Pixies were lucky they knew Kristin Hersh otherwise they probably would’ve disappeared.
they are so special...pixies get too much money until the muses ger PAID dammit! :P im an ass...but not wrong
wish i could have been cool as you but i dont do comments for clear reasons...good stuff guys and gals...
YES! Leslie Langston and David Narcizo were a very unique dynamic for the band.
Oh,the Pixies we're"lucky"..right..well we can all see your a big Muses fan,and rightfully so because their all good.
Leslie gets Lots of credit, like on bass player forums, lists of women bass players, existing fans. There's perfect bass playing there! She was a big piece of the image package of what the band was too, overseas as well. She said she chose to join them because they had a "catchy modern sound". It was a joke and it was true. She studied funk like religion. The Pixies were their own thing and would have happened if the Muses hadn't, but they fed into each other melodically. I saw them at TT The Bears Cambridge and The Rat, Kenmore Squ. The 1st Muses album was like Sergeant Pepper had been as far as refreshingly new.
Raw and unfiltered... That's what captured me in 1986, and keeps me still....
I was in college when House Tornado came out, and that record was everywhere at the time. Then I went home for the summer and found out they were this little cult band. There was such a huge divide between college radio and the mainstream at the time, and a lot of truly amazing music never got a fair hearing in the broader culture. Run Letter still blows me away and takes me back to those times.
I've been following Throwing Muses for decades now and I'd agree that they are very underrated. I've seen them numerous times throughout the years, but my favorite was in San francisco in 2001. It was a weekend event. Friday night was a Kristen solo gig at a church, Saturday afternoon everyone was invited to sound check and afterwards the band invited fans on stage to sing the Muses song of their choice. Throwing Muses karaoke with the band backing you up. It was a blast. That evening was a Throwing Muses reunion concert and Sunday morning was breakfast and mingling with the band. As a fan, I so appreciated them making the effort to spend time with their fans. I've never seen a band do anything similar for their fans.
That karaoke idea is brilliant! Did you sing one?
Jealous!
i was there. i think it was Noe Valley Ministry and then Slim's. i think they also had a Taco Bar there. the karaoke was a lot of fun.
Sounds brilliant! Am a bit envious lol
It’s never too late to discover great artists…..so glad you did ❤️the muses are exceptional ❤️ thank you for your upload xx
Been a fan of the Muses from the beginning and whilst I admit that "The Real Ramona" is certainly their most polished, commercial and and successful (?) album you can't beat the first eponymous LP, closely followed by "Hunkpapa" and then "The fat skier/House tornado". Also make sure you read "Rat Girl" by Kristin Hersh which is an excellent read and an insight into the early years of the band. Kristin's solo work is also superb, as is Tanya's work with Belly and of course the phenomenal Breeders. Now where did I leave my shredded ill fitting Hunkpapa T-shirt.............
Glad you found the most brilliant band I've ever heard
Kristin Hersh's memoir Rat Girl is one of the best depictions of life in a band. She wrote to me! (She said my music could help people!)
‘Hate My Way’ absolute gem from their debut.
Agree 100%!!!!
so perfect...
so haunting and honest...just chilling a song
everytime i listen to it there are two spots especially that give me cold chills and i start to cry spontaneously and involuntarily. Only song in the world that does that to me.
At my lowest, recovering from abuse, this song got me thru all the darkness. ❤️
Kristen Hersch is one of the most brilliant but also strangest songwriters, and yes she claims that her songs started coming to her fully formed after a head injury when a car knocked her off her bike at the age of 16. They read like surrealist poetry channeled through a very drunken Charles Bukowski, but are sung with a distinctive feminine charm. I have to be honest I don't understand half of her lyrics, and I've been listening since the 80's when they were part of the local Boston music scene playing in run-down clubs like The Rat. She should also be listed among the best female guitar players. Kristen still pops up in little run-down Boston bars from time to time with her guitar.
You used "run-down" twice. The Rat would be on the national register if it wasn't valuable real estate in later years. I saw TM there early in their run. It was the Boston stop for many famous band's first or third national tour. Locals opened so it was a service to the scene. You are right about Kristen channelling and her guitar skill (which isn't a mental disorder at all).
I had a friend in 1988 give me a dubbed off tape called Lonely as an Eyesore. A compilation of bands from some label I'd never heard of called 4 A.D. Song after song on that tape opened me to a world that I didn't know existed. What amazing sounds were coming from these bands that was like nothing I'd ever heard before. Sometime around 1993 or 94, we finally got to see Throwing Muses. The opening band was The Flaming Lips.
Must reads by Kristin: Rat Girl and Seeing Sideways…
For years, many TM songs would make me burst into tears involuntarily: the part in Vicky’s Box (best song in the world imo) where she sings, “this I’ll be all right?” and the whole gorgeous denouement after “WELCOME HOMMME!!”; the high notes in “And a She Wolf After the War;” Cry Baby Cry’s “I wanna cry / on a roof”…I’d be in mid sentence and just sob. There’s a scientific reason for it, same reason you break out in goosebumps at a song (which also happens) - so weird.
I’m so glad you discovered them.
Whilst everyone is chiming in about the early material (which is incredible, my gateway drug was also The Real Ramona) but the later stuff when they reverted to a three piece with Bernard Gerges on bass is sublime. Absolutely amazing stuff.
I was amazed because the entire experience fits me as well. I am a huge fan after only really listening to Throwing Muses a few weeks ago, and equally bewildered how I overlooked them in the first place. I have known the name for years, but unlike the pixies of whom I’m a long-term fan, no one has ever shaken me by the arm and said “ You’ve gotta LISTEN to this.!”
It was also very well presented here- so much so that I immediately subscribed to the channel. I recognize another serious music nut when I hear one! Nice job.
I’m having the same experience!
They've been a favourite band for decades, in part, because of their incredible, tight and hypnotic live shows. Hearing Hersh's voice live can be the sweetest thing, or skewers to the temples sharp; compelling stuff.
It's hard to pin down a best or favourite album of theirs; I've never tired of any of them and they all have something worth re-visiting. It is House Tornado and Limbo, however, that I re-visit most.
I hold Kristin Hersh's solo work in equal regard to the Throwing Muses catalogue, and like the TM records they all have a distinct sound and quality to them. Hips And Makers is a fantastic album and was quite successful, though nothing like the incredible Sunny Border Blue.
It may not be to everyone's taste but her album covering Appalachian folk songs, Murder, Misery And Then Goodnight, is a wee gem.
Throwing Muses together and with their solo projects have produced a body of work unequaled, in my opinion.
Well said and couldn't agree with you more. My favorite band and solo artist of all time. So prolific, so mind blowing.
I graduated from HS in 91, started community college locally, and found a college radio station --> that is where I first found the Muses (glad you finally did too)! I picked up the Sire "Just Say...", in this case "Just Say Yes", and found the Muses again. Shortly thereafter Belly was in full swing on MTV...I had the biggest crush on Tonya Donelly and to this day think she / her sister / that band are one of the more critical (& agreed underrated) pillars of modern indie.
Brilliant video which I spent the majority of nodding fervently in agreement. So great to see someone discovering the Muses and all the tendrils that come off them. The Real Ramona is a fantastic album. Counting Backwards, Not Too Soon, Two Step, Honeychain, Graffiti... a completely overlooked record, perhaps because it was competing with so much in 1991. I swear if it dropped today it would be revered with Pitchfork red decimals and some hardcore reddit stanning. You are absolutely right - there's nowhere near enough discourse on this really amazing band. Hersh is a firebrand, a truly unique voice in indie. I'm also a huge Donnelly fan (if you'll pardon the tired critical trope I always though she was McCartney to Hersh's Lennon - the charismatic press friendly pop auteur to Hersh's troubled rock savant). On a personal note I saw Belly support REM at Milton Keynes when I was an awkward teenager and Tanya's performance blew me away. They were promoting the King LP at the time, which I think is one of her most underrated works. A bit more conventional pop rock than the Muses or Belly's debut, but the title track and Now They'll Sleep are absolute classics. Anyway that was the pivot point that got me into the Muses. Keep up the great content
Thanks very much! I'll definitely be exploring Belly (not a sentence you get to type often, that, is it? 😄) very soon. It's been fun watching interviews with both stepsisters - they both seem like really nice, really intriguing people. Good company, even if only through a screen.
Donnelly's Whisky Tango Ghosts is absolutely beautiful. I agree she stands as a great composer and performer in her own. Indeed, I think The Breeders were at their best when she was in the band.
Graffiti!! 😍😍
House Tornado is their best album in my opinion. It's such an amazing atmospheric soundscape. Some of the songs on that have about as many views on RUclips as this video does. Who knows why they're not more well known. Honestly, though I don't really care; success tends to spoil bands, whilst, as you point out, Kristin Hersh is still putting out good music. I guess I feel a bit bad for her as she probably feels a bit wistful about it. Well done for making this video though.
I completely agree about House Tornado. As soon as it was released it climbed into my soul and scratched away until the songs were etched into my being, never to be released, never to be forgotten.
Absolutely. That tape was in my car non-stop as a teenager.
First heard them when hanging around Central Sq, in summer of '84 or '85. I made a cassette recording off a friend's cassette of an early demo. Quality was piss-poor, yet I played that thing again and again; blown away with Hate My Way and Call Me. Tempo shifts and melodic mood swings were like nothing I'd heard and it felt like who I was at that moment: desperate longing, depression, anger, yet knowing the world's beauty in a song's perfect moment: "I make you into a song/I can't rise above the church/I'm caught in a jungle, vines tangle my hands..." then "I can't find the ice..." Definitely had a crush on both Tanya and Kristin equally back then. Sorta still do.
Don’t forget Leslie!😍
They will have their day of widespread recognition.
Their music is too good and real and timeless. Also, they have a large cult-like group of die hard followers. Might be after we are all dead, but they will have their day !
And we can rejoice together in heaven.
I would recommend TM albums “University” & “Limbo” from 1995 & 1996. Chronologically there’s then a slew of excellent solo albums by Kristin “Hips & Makers”, “Sky Motel”, “Sunny Border Blue”& “Strange Angels” which are all very different, but all excellent. Probably avoid “The Grotto” unless you’ve fallen in love with her first.
You're completely right. Only just "discovered " them recently and can't get enough of them. Vaguely remember seeing a clip of "Counting Backwards" on The Chart Show but that's about it.
I was obsessed with "Cry Baby Cry" when it played on the college radio station, but ironically I ended up owning almost every one of their records before I re-discovered that one. Their songs are so moving. "Two Step" makes me think of my daughter and makes me cry sometimes. What a wonderful band, such wonderful music.
I saw them for the first time live when they were touring Real Ramona. It was easily, and far away, in the top 3 best of hundreds of live shows I've seen. They were absolute giants, and massively under-appreciated.
Loved Throwing Muses for years - first got into them when Belly’s “Star” came out, and devoured the back catalogue. I agree with you The Real Ramona is a masterpiece. Interestingly, I think Tanya was more of the lead guitarist by that stage, and certainly much of the abrasive stuff on Hook in her Head was played by Tanya live (there’s a video of them doing that on German TV somewhere on RUclips). I’ve seen the band many times, but never saw them with Tanya and Kristin together - until Tanya Donelly supported Throwing Muses on their tour in support of Purgatory/Paradise. Towards the end of Throwing Muses set, Tanya joined Kristin, Bernard and Dave on stage for songs from the debut, Hunkpapa, and Real Ramona. It was so special to see them singing and playing together. Kristin Hersh really pioneered the whole fan-funded model that things like Bandcamp and now Patreon have developed, through her Strange Angels - she has really (and rightly) rejected the whole music industry machine. Such an amazing band. If you want to dive deeper check out The Kristin Hersh archives on Twitter and Tumblr! Great to see you discovering them and spreading the word!
Tanya was definitely lead guitarist by the time of 'Ramona, as she was during her short time in the original Breeders. Interestingly, the songs that make up Belly's 'Star' LP were originally demoed as The Breeders 2nd LP, wit Kim Deal playing guitar and backing vocals.
Kristen says she plays live in a trance, and can only remember her lyrics on stage if she is in that fugue state.
I prefer the 2nd stage 3 piece Muses with Bernard Georges to the 80's Muses... and lastly David Narcizo is one of the best drummers in alt rock. Just listen to 'Pearl'. His latest output on 'Purgatory Paradise', and the new album is Bonham'esque.
Great band, as are Kristen's ultra thrashy 50 ft Wave (check out 'Power and Light' ep), Tanya era Breeders ('Pod'), and Belly. 'Real Ramona, and 'University' are my Muses fav's. 'Learn to Sing Like a Star' is my fav. solo Kristen. It may even be the best album of the lot, but what does it matter - they are all great!
Tanya Donelly’s solo album, “Love Songs for Underdogs” is pretty good! I think that Throwing Muses’s “Limbo” is their best album! (Great video!)
Thanks!
Yeah .... "Limbo" is amazing. I remember that I read somewhere that It's also Kristin's favorite one.
This band is Awesome!They are also very intelligent and nice human beings..
First heard "Fish" on the 1987 "Lonely is an Eyesore" 4AD compilation LP, but never heard of them again, despite living in a city with 2 university radio station! Until checking out a friend's CD collection and saw "University", which i just loved, and bought Limbo when it came out.
Didn't explore the earlier CDs until 10 years ago with streaming music.
"Fish' is a bit like Led Zeppelin's "Four Sticks' with this pulverising rhythm constantly tightening-up and relaxing as if the person singing and playing the guitar is trying not to lose their temper. Its a fabulous piece of music!
Not sure I can ever explain it. They just rock. TM have been a part of my life since they appeared on the 4AD compliation "Lonely is an Eyesore". I brought the cd home on a Wednesday, and by that Friday, I was going down to Champaign IL to see them live at Mabels. Kristen Hersh has this beautifully dense way of writing and speaking. Every word weighs a ton, yet it's all so much fun. She's also sweet as pie, and i'm a fan for life.
The Real Ramona is a gem of an album. It never gets old. One song not mentioned here is the last song of the album, "2 Step". What an amazingly simple and beautiful song. Perfect ending. (I decided 30 years ago that I wanted this song played at my funeral... and have never changed my mind.)
One of my all-time favourite bands. Have been listening to them since my twenties in the 90s.
ABSOLUTELY. Been a huge fan in the U.K. since 1987. I reviewed "Chains Changed E.P." and "House Tornado" LP for our local alternative newspaper, then saw them and Pixies play live at Leeds Poly (as it then was). I was blown away by them completely and became hooked. Not only were they the first U.S. band to sign to 4AD, but their first three records were only released here in the U.K. Love Kristin & Tanya's solo work, and remember the video for Belly's "Feed The Trees" on U..K. TV one of my favourite songs of the 90s. "The Real Ramona" is their flawless masterpiece and the most accessible entry point, but "University" is also superb and worth checking out.
For someone who's known them for 35 years, I'm glad younger people are rediscovering them all over again. My channel has two Muses playlists for those who want an introduction (not a plug, I don't monetise), part one is their early work with Tanya & Leslie, part two as a trio of Kristin, Bernard, and David.
Thanks for this long overdue review of the band 20/20, I wonder if you're familiar with Boston's late 80s/early 90s indie rock band Salem 66, a similar three wimmin and one guy line-up. Brilliant group, I have a playlist, and like 20/20 I was unaware of them originally and only discovered them 30 years too late.
Yeah... "Not to soon"
Hooked me...and when Belly formed, I was in love. Their 2nd album KING, and the US tour that followed, went to 40 Belly shows in 38 states... Best time of my life. Got to gang with Belly, Tanya signed old Muses albums, got to meet Jewel as she was just starting out...It's an experience I wouldn't trade for anything!
I've only seen Belly once. 😢
@@nadzee7101
Hey that's more than most people! And anyone that even knows who Belly is, I automatically love✌️
Full disclosure, seen Tanya solo twice and a Throwing Muse reunion show where Tanya played the whole set.
If anybody's digging in, don't sleep on their first EP called Chains Changed. It's four epic songs that are so winding and crazy and unexpected and moving. It's on RUclips for sure. Easily my favorite EP ever from anybody. It's so intense and detailed for a debut. You're right, the talent came early and hard for these powerful peoples.
One of my favorite records period.
I love this band since i was 17... and i agree with you, is the most underrated band of their generation... great video!
For sure. "Hate My Way" has been stuck in my head for more than 30 years.
The Real Ramona is absolutely 💯 Genius.
I've been listening to Throwing Muses since the early 90's. Real Ramona is one of my favorite albums of all time. They are such a unique and expressive band, and it's always a different experience listening to them than any other band. Is there any better compliment to an artist than the fact that they are completely unique?
Saw them live in 1991 at Cambridge Junction. They were very very good. Really intense performance and Hersh is really captivating. The drummer brilliant. Claim to fame - Tanya Donelly gave me a kiss after the gig!
I'm from R.I. too, a couple of towns over from them, and I've loved this band since their first album. My daughter was born the year that record came out, so I felt I was too old and didn't have the time to see them in concert. I finally got a chance to see them live at a club in Boston with the Screaming Females (tremendous show) and I took my kids (they grew up hearing the Throwing Muses and were young adults by then). It was a great night. Really underrated band.
i just found this video. Thanks for bringing more attention to Throwing Muses. TM have been my favorite band since I was 20 (36 years ago). But my favorite thing about your video is the comments. You can see that TM fans are a cut above most people, fully understanding not only what actual indie rock is, but what a genius Kristin is as a songwriter, guitar player, lyricist, and author. Everyone below my comment has said something super important, so read them all. Great video, introduction, and mostly "cheers" to this group of commenters.
And cheers to you my friend!
The double CD 'Doghouse' is just an absolute gem. It has rarities like Finished, Fish, A SheWolf After the War, Garoux Des Larmes...
I found Real Ramona at a used CD store in San Antonio. Took that CD on a 11 hour road trip with some friends. They didn't quite know what to think of it. I loved it.
the following comment is spot on. The Real Ramona gives the Pretenders debut album real competition for one of the best studio albums in alt-ruck history.
Damn they're so good that I'm like actually crying towards the end of this video. I guess it's bringing back a lot of memories
I live in Italy and in the late 80s Indie music from the UK and the USA used to have a remarkable audience around here among youngsters. That was down to good domestic music press, introducing us indie rock kids to the exciting bands from overseas. It so happened that 4AD gained popularity in our Country and I personally came across Throwing Muses very early. I actually remember buying their first album in 1987, pretty much a few months after it got released in the UK, and it really blew me away. And I've been a fan ever since...
In 1986, as a fan of 4AD records, I borrowed Throwing Muses self-titled LP from a friend. I remember the first time I played it on my stereo and it changed my life. Since then, I've followed Throwing Muses/Kristin Hersh and during that early time wondered why The Pixies got all the accolades. I loved the Pixies, sure, but connected with the Muses on such a deep level. I've met Kristin Hersh many times over the years and she has always been amazing to talk to. Thanks for the video, it's so nice to see younger folks discovering this band.
Glad you enjoyed it, Carmen! As much as I enjoy the Pixies, I don't get why they overshadow TM so much either. Only thing I can think - at least for my group of friends growing up - is the Nirvana connection. We almost certainly all discovered the Pixies as a direct result of getting into Nirvana. Without Nirvana tipping their hat to them, perhaps the Pixies would've remained more of a cult band too 🤷♂️
@@2020Sound Actually, my theories about Throwing Muses being overshadowed is mostly because their music is so manic and disjointed. With all the tempo changes and chord changes and Kristin's voice and lyrics, they weren't the easiest band to 'get into'. You either connected with it or you didn't. The Pixies were a lot more accessible in my opinion. Also, back then, there still weren't many women fronted bands, esp. the likes of Kristin Hersh. I'm sure they weren't taken as seriously because of that.
@@CDIII All that, plus they never had a super famous patron like Cobain to big them up in the press in quite the same way. Maybe Cobain just didn't have many Throwing Muses records, he did say he loved the Breeders though.
@@2020Sound Pixies overshadowed Throwing Muses way before anyone knew who Nirvana were, Pixies headlined Reading Festival in 1990, they were massive (for an indie band) Throwing Muses never had that kind of appeal or following. ... as to why? I don't know, they were label mates but that aside I don't think they had that much in common. I always thought of Throwing Muses as being more in the 'mellow dreamy indie' type camp, they were way too mellow for my tastes in the late 80's. Pixies, Dinosaur Jr, Mudhoney, Lemonheads etc. Maybe Pixies just had more 'crossover' appeal to a wider audience?
Throwing Muses has 2 distinctive sounds. There are the songs that Kristen wrote, and songs Tanya wrote. Kristen’s songs were a little darker, and deeper. Tanya’s songs are a bit more pop like.
Great video!. I wonder if tanya Donelly subsequent success with the breeders and then belly can make music fans prone to overlook throwing Muses-slightly like overlooking Joy Division because of New Order.
Thanks! Probably because of my age and location, Belly are pretty much just as new to me as Throwing Muses (I think I had a compilation with a song of theirs on back in '97, but that's about it.) The only Breeders stuff I'd heard was after Tanya had left, too (bits from 'Last Splash' onwards, basically). Whilst looking up their history, I spotted that Belly got a Rolling Stone cover in '95, though, so im guessing they were pretty well known at one point, at least in the U.S.? So maybe you're right and that does overshadow TM in some folks' eyes!
@@2020Sound Yes, in fact Belly were actually fairly popular In the “alternative rock” charts here in the US.Their success was well deserved of course. If you’re interested Tanya Donelly did a collaboration with Catherine wheel on a song called Judy staring at the Sun you might want to check out
"...a boy who was tangled in his bike forever, a girl who was missing two fingers.." - HATE MY WAY. 32 years after hearing that haunting song for the first time, I still get emotional! I highly suggest finding 'The Curse' a live album, so energetic and melodic it's unbelievable!!
NB, Tanya Donelly was in the Breeders, too - on their first album. And I'd say she was usually lead guitar in the Muses.
found this music in the early 90s in college... certainly a fan and lead me to the band Belly as well.
I saw them at Glasto 89 alongside Pixies, totally stole the gig. Real Ramona was an incredible tour and Tanya's solo stuff is fantastic! Great great band
I first heard Throwing Muses when I was in college, in 1993. My sister-in-law worked at a record store and would give me tons of promo discs. One day she cleared out most of the old promos, and one of the ones she found was a compilation from several years earlier, and it had a Throwing Muses song called "A Feeling" on it. It sounded like literally nothing else I'd ever heard, and I immediately went on a quest to get as much of their catalogue in my hands that I possibly could. House Tornado, Hunkpapa, The Real Ramona, and Red Heaven were in near constant rotation for me once I found them. Kristin Hersh is criminally underrated.
This is such a gift to all of us who love this band! Welcome!
Thanks!
I also fell in love for Tanya`s guitar noises with her mouth in Not To Soon
It's called "caterwauling"... But yeah... TM is one of the greats from that era.
Another great choice! Loved the info about Kristin Hersh. I’ve met her and she’s really sound.
Donna Matthews from Elastica always reminded me of Tanya Donnelly. They both favour minor chords and lyrics with a fair degree of ennui about them. They’re also both very cool!
Thanks! I still enjoy blasting Elastica's debut from time to time!
@@2020Sound Same. But you can always differntiate Donna’s songs by the slightly sad tone and the fact they werent sued for plagarism!
Liked this one as we'll just after watching your piece on the Chameleons. I love this band so much and saw them a couple of times on the double header they did with the Pixies. The self titled debut is an immense album. I absolutely love their early work but at the same time can find it a bit traumatic to listen to- it leaves a big impression. My favourite on Real Ramona is Red Shoes still sends shivers down my spine.
Glad you discovered them! I discovered them when Hunkpappa was released, for me at a college record store. I then found House tornado and their debut album as a CD ‘import’ since that album was never released here in the US. House Tornado was even better than Hunkpapa and the green (debut) album is still one of the best albums of all time for me. When listening to it i am completely engrossed from start to finish. I saw them live in Iowa City on their Real Ramona tour. Kristin’s presence on stage especially back then was so intense. From that concert I was instantly a David Narcizo fan for life. The man is a beast on those drums. Thanks for sharing your discovery of the band! Pitchfork recently did a retro album review of the first Throwing Muses album btw. Its worth a read.
The most random sequence of clicks led to me searching for this band today, and to my happy surprise in finding a current video about them! Thanks for reminding me: at its best, this what the internet is for.
Happy to have been a random surprise! 😃 Thanks for watching!
You are so right! I grew up in Rhode Island in the 1980s. They got lots of play on WBRU, a once really good college radio station. I'm sure people much hipper than me can tell you more about the scene back then, but there was a really good ecosystem of left-of-the-dial radio stations and clubs along interstate 95... New Haven, Providence, Pawtucket, and Boston (of course NYC, too). I really, really wish I saw the Throwing Muses, back then (not sure why I hadn't), but it is great that they are still making really good music. I learned a great deal from your video and enjoyed hearing your thoughts on the music. You mention Husker Du, but I think they are very much remembered... I would say Miracle Legion is a better example of a similarly underrated band, no, from that era and region? Thoughts?
I was hooked when "Lonely Is an Eyesore" emerged in '87. The first I saw them was when they played Lollapalooza and I have tried to see them or Kristen ever since.
I bought Red Heaven after hearing Firepile on KUGR my freshman year in college. It opened my eyes to the Pixies, The Sundays, The Breeders, etc. Later to bands like the Cranes, Echobelly, and Collection d”Arnell-Andrea.
Throwing Muses completely transformed my musical evolution from radio pop to indie. Thank you Kristin, Tanya, et al.
Tip o’ the hat for your plug for Bob Mould and Sugar (and subtly to Husker Du). 😃
Thanks Petelado!
I saw them in the late 80’s in Newport, RI. They were so natural, so true. They lived the music. They remind me of U2 not for the actual music but just talent without training. Pure talent. Not too soon is pure magic. If they had a better video director, they would have been big!!! Thank you for your expose in them.
Lucky you!!! Grew up in eastern CT, spent many happy Saturday and Sunday afternoons/evenings in Newport after playing in league soccer games on the fields at Fort Adams. One of my biggest regrets is not seeing them play one of the local places while they were doing that circuit. I often wonder if I'd missed a show during one of those lazy Saturday or Sunday afternoons.
Enjoyed TM and Belly from the start... Being local Newport kids, they got a lot of air time on 95.5WBRU out of Providence, even after they moved up to Boston.
Wish I could turn back the clock to those days... Could have, should have spent a lot more time around the Providence and Boston music scene!
Belly also just as good and underarted too.
i was really lucky to discover them on late night mtv with the video of "bright yellow gun" back when i was 17...but yeah even my friends who were into 90's alt rock had no idea who they were, so i ended up introducing them to a lot of people
I'm more of a fan of Belly (who I have seen live twice, brilliant concerts both times, they played a lot of the old songs from Star and King but as well new ones from the excellent Dove album) but yes Throwing Muses were a great band! I also saw Kristin Hersh perform here in Cambridge a couple of years back. Someone below mentioned Tanya Donelly's recent record with the Partington Sisters, I reallly like that, especially the cover of Echo & the Bunnymen's Ocean Rain. I also noticed that more recently she appears as a guest vocalist on the self-titled album by Aaron and the Lord, and has a new project with Brian Sullivan called The Loyal Seas.
I've asked the same question since I first heard them in 1988 when I worked at Tower Records. Every time i get the same answer from myself: YES< YES THEY ARE AND IT"S A VENAL SIN. Thank you for this video, I love this band so much.
Ive seen the muses/kristen almost 20 times since the late 80's, 3 times when she was pregnant, they have always been criminally underrated.
so glad someone finally said this!!!!!
Just watched this video. Very nice intro. Wish there was more of an album history or timeline, but that's for another chapter. The song that hooked me on Throwing Muses, and is still wonderfully hooky to me is Juno from the House Tornado album. I remember seeing the video somewhere, and hearing this very very different song structure, thinking, "What the hell is this?!" All in a
Literally same. I deep dived 2 years ago and am SHOCKED theyre not bigger
Totally agree. Saw them back in the 90s. Can't believe they weren't bigger! I got into them when I bought a CD single EP. I then bought their album 'The Real Ramona'. They were indeed underrated. And more people should know about them! I think what happened was Brit Pop became the music media focus and they lost out.
Someone else in the comments asked me what planet I've been on to have not really encountered them before now 😄. But Britpop was essentially my entry point to music fandom and (I'm assuming you're British too) from that time onwards, I'm sure I'm right in saying Throwing Muses have had extremely little exposure over here!
Found their album limbo at thrift store on CD and now I'm hooked. Going to get into them during 12 hour work shifts
Absolutely love the muses and have been a constant since 87.great live Glad to hear some love for them
The links between the Throwing Muses (Real Ramona age) and the Breeders Pod album are worth looking into. Pod is also my absolute favorite Albini Recording.
The first bassist was Elaine Adamedes, and she sang my favorite Muses song: Dirt is on the Floor. I lost the cassette years ago.
I also recently found out about this band just recently. In my case, I saw them mentioned while I was reading old Cocteau Twins interviews. I also have an interest in that earlier "4AD sound", so I'll definitely have to dive into their albums. Speaking of 4AD, another 4AD band worth checking out is Dif Juz. Hardly anyone has ever heard of them, but they have been described as being sort of post-rock before Talk Talk's Spirit of Eden.
They are BRILLIANT! We grew up close to them, so we were able to check them out LIVE , so many times@ The Rocket, Lupo’s, Club Babyhead ! ❤
“I could be a smack freak
And hate society
I could hate God
And blame Dad
I might be in a Holocaust
Hate Hitler
Might not have a child
And hate school
I could be a sad lover
And hate death
I could be a neuro
And hate sweat
No
I hate my way”🎼🎶
The memorable thing about a Kristen Hersh show, above the music, were the stories she would tell between the songs.
I never saw the Muses in the 90s, but I saw Kristen solo multiple times, and 50 Foot Wave. The best show I remember was with Grant Lee Philips and John Doe. The duets they did were wonderful.
It's also fun to play her music on a guitar. *Flooding*, for instance. Watch her fingering in the Christchurch video
Centered in the city of Providence, Rhode Island; the alt rock scene in New England in the late 80s and early 90s was glorious. You could walk into Lupo's or Babyhead most any night and hear something fresh and intense. I was lucky enough to see the band live only once but holy crap they delivered the groceries. You could tell that the loved ever second on stage! They and the Talking Heads are the only two band I know of who sounded better live than in the studio. Thank you for this wonderful presentation: Band, if U R out there.. Respect. (20/20: suggestion for another episode, A 90s Boston band called "Tribe"; incredible stuff and fascinating story)
I went to same college as Kristin (Salve)- her father was my philosophy professor. Saw them first in the late 80s in Providence (Hunkpapa era). Been a fan since. Saw Kristin most recently in 2019 in the UK. She still records prolifically and has written two memoirs.
"Not Too Soon" is one of the greatest songs ever. I saw them in 1991 (when the lead guitarist was exactly as pregnant as she is in the 4AD video for that track--which was somehow really endearing, even to my stupid teenage punk rock brain at the time) at The Chameleon in Lancaster, PA, and they were phenomenal. For some reason, the tracks I paid for from iTunes (including Not Too Soon) were deleted from my devices by Apple when that whole thing went down, which prompted me to abandon streaming music permanently and continue to collect hard copies of anything I really care about to this day. Glad to see someone giving them the respect they deserve!
Lucky you (seeing them live back in the day)... I had my head up my ass when it came to looking for and going to live shows back then. Wish I would have put in the effort, so many good female led bands from the late 80's to mid-90's. Would have loved to have caught the Muses or Belly when they did some local shows (RI or Boston area), especially in their hometown.
Oh the things I'd do if I had a time machine...
In my late teens, when I was just discovering everything from Noise to Post Punk, Throwing Muses blew my mind... It's such a flashback to hear any of it... Thanks so much for working on this video.
Subscribed mate :) my best friend introducing me to this band by putting Not Too Soon on my mixtape was one of his many great moves
Thanks Sean! You clearly have great taste in friends too! 😄
I discovered them on KDVS Davis college radio in California in 1988. Fish from the lonely is an eyesore 4AD comp. They were my personal private band that only I liked in my group. I remember when the Real Ramona came out. When my husband and I met in 1998, he had the University CD in his disc changer and I knew that we would be together forever 😅 We were both team Kristin which also solidified our connection (We love Tanya too but you know what I mean) I was super into her solo work too and I've seen the band and her perform numerous times in the '90s. My Facebook profile asks me what school I went to. My reply is, Throwing Muses University.
I picked up a used cassette tape of The Real Ramona in the mid-90s and have been hooked ever since. I saw them live once and the energy on stage was intensive and tight. i think some of the drumming is some of the best i've heard in rock/indie. I also recommend University. I really appreciate Hersh's lyrics- direct, relatable, unpopular. she captured difficulties in parenting at the same time i was a new mom- what can be a taboo topic and something that women don't often get to express. Red Heaven is an angry album and I love blasting Furious when I feel pissed off! Thanks for showing this band off!
i just remembered i was first introduced to them on 120 minutes with Juno!
“Bea” is such an intense song! My favourite!
Same here. I've heard about them for a few year now, never in the 90s, but never heard their music until recently. They are amazing.
Belly, (Tanya Donelly's post Throwing Muses band) is also underrated, Belly's Star is one of the best alternative rock releases of the 90's, the follow up King was also excellent.
Well, my introduction was the 4AD compilation Lonely is an Eyesore, with their excellent single Fish. Got it in summer of 87. The label even named the record from a line in the song. Got hooked (no pun intended). I went back to the same shop looking for more Throwing Muses. Found the Chains Changed ep (all great songs- Cry Baby Cry, Reel, but Finished is the pick of the litter). That winter I found the Fat Skier but it didn't have the same punch. Hersh's Hips and Makers is worth a listen. Ghost in You with Michael Stipe is decent. Thanks for the video.
Whoh man, I think you nailed it! Me and my friends were super into the muses right from the beginning. KCRW in LA turned us on to them with the song fish. It was on a 4ad compilation albukm that also featured the pixies. And they were awesome live too. One if my all time favorite shows! I hadn’t known they were so young. Anyway check out the song Fish and thanks for this great documentary 🌊🏄♂️🌱☀️
Right on. I’m glad someone finally made a video about this band. Thank you! I’ve been a fan since I first heard them on the 4AD compilation Lonely is an Eyesore back in 87. Big fan of Belly and Kristen Hersh’s solo stuff too.
Really nice video. I'd have missed TM if I hadn't picked up a 4AD promo CD from the music store I frequented as a student (too many years ago). It was one of those things I could easily have missed, or just decided not to bother. But it had all sorts of odditiies on like Red House Painters, Tarnation (who I still love), and also Throwing Muses, who are - as you say - extraordinarily good. Still one of my favourite bands, and both Tanya and Kristen are brilliant solo artists.
Thanks for highlighting this and creating a resource for those discovering the fave established band. I'd known their name through their association with 4AD, but only gave them a conscious listen a few days ago. It's been such a surprise and joy. Besides reminding me of the Pixies, some of their early stuff has the Smiths (guitar), and I definitely hear elements that Lush or even Sleeper took up (that's Donelly's more pop penchant).
Having seen them live Dave Narciso has one of the heaviest drum sounds around, while the mention of U2 normally elicits derision there’s something about a marching band which lends itself to strident drumming. I think if you asked Dave Ghrol he’d he’d have something positive to say about Throwing Muses
Shark is why I started playing bass in the 90's
Facts. Kristin Hersh and Throwing Muses are without a doubt theeeee most underrated band of the last 35 years. My favourite band of all time.