Please please please do more videos on YOUR designs - even the out of production designs. I am really itching to make a GR kit purchase and I want to have a really good idea of what to buy. Warning: You may get so many orders, you won't be able to keep up. Success is quite often the consequence of success.
Brent Elieson Hey Brent- I’d like to talk to you about the “upgrade” and the improvements you’re now hearing. If you’d like to share your thoughts and impressions- I’m at keeferdog@hotmail.com Thanks
Agree completely with your analysis of the cost for quality components and the difference it makes. Currently I am rebuilding some Proac Studio 3 speakers from 1980 or so. Even though the components used were amongst the best at the time, they are nowhere near today's HiFi dedicated crossover bits. The capacitors alone cost about $60US each for 100uF polyester, to replace the bipolar units of the day, can't wait to see the results!
I have a set of a ProAc Studio I MK II that I’ve had for more than 25 years. I’m picking them up after having the crossovers rebuilt. I’m excited to see what, if any, difference I hear. What was your experience like?
@@andrewbardwell4832 Hi Andrew, second time to write this, a call came in and wiped the first time out completely, only a few words from the end. I have a variety of amps to use driving the Proac Studio 3, Krell FPB700CX, Parasound JC1, BelCanto Ref1000, and also a Chinese made 15W class A transistor, from 1969, Linsley Hood. The upgraded version is limited to capacitor only, as the resistance values are faded, and there's no cct online for my model, only the EBS version is shown and it's very different to mine. The caps replaced, gave me a very stable image, and greatly improved precision to the sound. There was lots of hash in the background, now gone. Bass improved due to the filter caps that go across the bass driver were open cct , making the impedance mismatched and the effective midrange run in the bass driver. Will be refinishing the cabinets gloss black, as the previous owner used them as a coffee stand, look ok front on, and that's all. Bought them because they were the first speakers that made me go wow! This was 1979 remember, and I was just developing the hifi bug. Couldn't afford them at $10,000 AU at the time. Let me know how yours turn out, should be good.
Just ordered the kit. Thanks for the great videos! I can’t wait to hear the improvements. I’m already a fan of these speakers, but all my complaints seem as though they’ll be washed away with this upgrade.
@@ekimandersom4478 I heard rather significant differences. Was it worth it?… probably. I paid the low retail price when these speakers were new, so it didn’t seem like such a big hit. If you already own the 600Ms… I would say the upgrade is worth it. Especially if you don’t run a subwoofer. The low end response is so much smoother and lower that you definitely gain a few db where the stock roll off. The high end peak that makes the speaker hard to listen to for extended times is basically null and void. The metallic cones definitely add a certain brightness and alertness to music, but the upgrades definitely smooth that out to make it manageable for hours.
Free tip to anyone else performing the upgrade - When gluing in your tube connectors - keep in mind that you will need to get a crimping tool on the back of it later. The four corner posts and other tube connector seriously limit access and I had to position mine very carefully in order to be able to get the crimping tool on in the right orientation.
Mr. Danny Hello 👋. Mr. Danny all time You forget about magnet system. But speaker manufacturers save not only crossover elements and cables, they also save terribly a magnet. Use a minimum magnet, so most speaker drivers have high Qts. Therefore need use neo magnet rings,but glue the magnets strictly in Antiphase.Neo magnets occupy minimal volume in cabinet, and more effective, than ferrite magnet.
I believe what you're saying, but do have two questions. 1. Will I hear a difference on the upgrade if my amp is not "high end"? 2. If the speakers are cheaply manufactured with multiple flaws why did so many audiophiles give it fantastic reviews?
Okay, I'm almost sold... Will this upgrade continue to allow me to bi-amplify my RP-600M's or interfere with that in any way? As well, do you sell kits with four sets of tube connectors to satisfy bi-amplification? ... And thanks for your great videos. Just discovered your channel yesterday and watched four videos now. Good stuff :o) Cheers from Charlotte, NC
You'd need to order an additional set of connectors and keep the woofer and Tweeter circuits separate and solder them to the two sets of connectors. you could still build them onto one board but keep the positive and negative connections separated. I think Danny would prob say this isnt really necessary. He hasnt advocated hat in any of his upgrades and I've watched them all. He really only says to get the Bass drivers onto a seaparate amp from the Mid and tweeter on a 3-way speaker. as a tweeter draws so little current, it can be fed with the same amp as the Mid. If you watch all hid Klipsch, and B&W upgrades you see the same story - repeated again and again.
You can listen here ruclips.net/video/9JP4OINiQ14/видео.html the difference A modified, B original. If it has more breath in A it is catastrophic degradation in high frequencies. I advise you modify only the Woofer crossover.
Does the No-res reduce the cabinet volume at all? Also other than making the cabinet wall acousicly "dead" ,does it make the cabinet seem larger to the woofer like poly fill or fiberglass insulation does?
the easiest way to find out is to put it to your mouth and try to blow through it, if you can it will increase the volume and i would bet this decreases it. often times they make the enclosure a little bit to big so there is room for a little but i think this is way overdone
Danny says it's basically neutral, @@Marleyismydog420 the damper layer reduces volume slightly but the open cell foam slows airflow and makes the enclosure behave as if slightly bigger - so really its a wash
You have added mass to the cabinet walls and the resonances have notably dropped in frequency, enough that they may now be within the working range of the driver. You have also reduced the volume of the box quite considerably, likely enough that the port may now need to be longer to tune out the peak you have probably engineered in by reducing volume as well as increasing box frequency. Show me a miked sidewall waterfall plot with and without no-res to demonstrate that you have actually reduced in amplitude any cabinet output and not just simply changed it. Show me a before and after impedance graph so I can see the effect on port tuning. I believe better would have been some small well designed braces to lift the panel resonances well out of the driver range and possibly disperse any pipe resonances within the box. The reason high end speakers use air cored inductors is because an iron core will saturate at higher levels. An iron core is plenty fast enough for the frequencies that the crossover is operating at and work perfectly well for the price and output of the speaker in this class as the price to upgrade is simply out of the realm of of a speaker this cheap. Some designers even use the saturation of the iron core inductor to help compress the cone movement when driven hard to prevent damage to the driver suspension. No-res is not a cure-all and can have negative impacts on performance and reliability. The air cored inductors whilst usually an improvement must be considered against price as well as their excursion limiting properties in small systems.
Klipsch RP600m with these improvements Or JBL studio 530 with same improvements? I listen to mostly rock and hip hop. I personally like a deep bass. I’m looking for a dynamic sound with punch. Will be using for home theater and 2 channel music. Looking for best bang for my buck. Thank you for any input.
I would love to hear your thoughts, see your tests (and ideas for potential imporovements) on the _"World’s Best Speakers!":_ ruclips.net/video/CKIye4RZ-5k/видео.html
@@dannyrichie9743 That's my point. I know you're a measurement guy. What changes when you swap a cast resistor for another type? If nothing changes then the circuit can't change, hence the sound won't change. You know that. I'm assuming something must change and I'm trying to understand what.
No, the circuit can be the same and it can measure the same and still sound very different. Check out this video: ruclips.net/video/cDl1hhT4ETU/видео.html
Yes, it will and I think it is rather negligent not to mention it. In fact I feel rather uneasy on this whole procedure of superficially looking at various components and saying that they are no good( or cheesey!!) . Are there before and after videos describing the improvements, or otherwise? Also, isn’t it a slap in the face of the engineers who have spent hundreds, if not thousands of hours getting the design right for production??
@@Nicholas.T Perhaps a slap in the face is required? Every klipsch I've heard sounded dreadfull. Perhaps you missed the fact that Danny measured the speakers and found them lacking, hence the need for a new crossover? So, not a superficial look at various components and saying they're no good.
The damper takes up a little air space, but the foam layer slows down air flow in the box and makes it act bigger. The two usually are about a wash and the volume is not really effected.
I love your show can you send me all your Designed speakers the picture the Towers speakers and center surround speakers everything please Mr Danny I wanted ordered or I give me your phone number some time I can wait to see your show even I am driving my car sorry about my English thank you good luck with everything.
That foam did almost nothing to improve the resonance of that poorly made enclosure. The knock test showed it. For someone who knows how a properly braced and damped box sounds like it is obvious. Some internal bracings would have been a lot better at stiffening the box, but those don't make profit don't they?
No need for the insulting tone. He sells upgrade kits. How would "adding bracing" be included in kits that are mailed out? The owner of the speakers can add bracing. Think.
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Please please please do more videos on YOUR designs - even the out of production designs. I am really itching to make a GR kit purchase and I want to have a really good idea of what to buy. Warning: You may get so many orders, you won't be able to keep up. Success is quite often the consequence of success.
Liked the case of Wavecor speakers ;) in addition to the complete video.
Great vid, makes me want to buy a pair of 600M's just so I can upgrade them!
I did the 600M upgrade and couldn't be happier with the result. Best of luck.
Brent Elieson Hey Brent- I’d like to talk to you about the “upgrade” and the improvements you’re now hearing. If you’d like to share your thoughts and impressions- I’m at keeferdog@hotmail.com
Thanks
🤨
@@Squishmallows24 He has so sold me on these speakers!
Agree completely with your analysis of the cost for quality components and the difference it makes. Currently I am rebuilding some Proac Studio 3 speakers from 1980 or so. Even though the components used were amongst the best at the time, they are nowhere near today's HiFi dedicated crossover bits. The capacitors alone cost about $60US each for 100uF polyester, to replace the bipolar units of the day, can't wait to see the results!
I have a set of a ProAc Studio I MK II that I’ve had for more than 25 years. I’m picking them up after having the crossovers rebuilt. I’m excited to see what, if any, difference I hear. What was your experience like?
@@andrewbardwell4832 Hi Andrew, second time to write this, a call came in and wiped the first time out completely, only a few words from the end.
I have a variety of amps to use driving the Proac Studio 3, Krell FPB700CX, Parasound JC1, BelCanto Ref1000, and also a Chinese made 15W class A transistor, from 1969, Linsley Hood. The upgraded version is limited to capacitor only, as the resistance values are faded, and there's no cct online for my model, only the EBS version is shown and it's very different to mine. The caps replaced, gave me a very stable image, and greatly improved precision to the sound. There was lots of hash in the background, now gone. Bass improved due to the filter caps that go across the bass driver were open cct , making the impedance mismatched and the effective midrange run in the bass driver. Will be refinishing the cabinets gloss black, as the previous owner used them as a coffee stand, look ok front on, and that's all. Bought them because they were the first speakers that made me go wow! This was 1979 remember, and I was just developing the hifi bug. Couldn't afford them at $10,000 AU at the time. Let me know how yours turn out, should be good.
Just ordered the kit. Thanks for the great videos! I can’t wait to hear the improvements. I’m already a fan of these speakers, but all my complaints seem as though they’ll be washed away with this upgrade.
And? Hear any difference?
@@ekimandersom4478 I heard rather significant differences. Was it worth it?… probably. I paid the low retail price when these speakers were new, so it didn’t seem like such a big hit. If you already own the 600Ms… I would say the upgrade is worth it. Especially if you don’t run a subwoofer. The low end response is so much smoother and lower that you definitely gain a few db where the stock roll off. The high end peak that makes the speaker hard to listen to for extended times is basically null and void. The metallic cones definitely add a certain brightness and alertness to music, but the upgrades definitely smooth that out to make it manageable for hours.
@@gavinm717gkm Ok thx, i have the RP6000f , upgrade kit kit is 555$ plus shipping to europe.
Probably still cheaper than buying other speakers.
@@ekimandersom4478 Hi Kim - what was to 6000 upgrsade like?
Free tip to anyone else performing the upgrade - When gluing in your tube connectors - keep in mind that you will need to get a crimping tool on the back of it later. The four corner posts and other tube connector seriously limit access and I had to position mine very carefully in order to be able to get the crimping tool on in the right orientation.
Mr. Danny Hello 👋. Mr. Danny all time You forget about magnet system. But speaker manufacturers save not only crossover elements and cables, they also save terribly a magnet. Use a minimum magnet, so most speaker drivers have high Qts. Therefore need use neo magnet rings,but glue the magnets strictly in Antiphase.Neo magnets occupy minimal volume in cabinet, and more effective, than ferrite magnet.
Totally awesome. Thankyou sooo much 😁🙏
I believe what you're saying, but do have two questions.
1. Will I hear a difference on the upgrade if my amp is not "high end"?
2. If the speakers are cheaply manufactured with multiple flaws why did so many audiophiles give it fantastic reviews?
A very good question, @HHLakers; thumbs up.
Okay, I'm almost sold... Will this upgrade continue to allow me to bi-amplify my RP-600M's or interfere with that in any way? As well, do you sell kits with four sets of tube connectors to satisfy bi-amplification? ... And thanks for your great videos. Just discovered your channel yesterday and watched four videos now. Good stuff :o) Cheers from Charlotte, NC
You'd need to order an additional set of connectors and keep the woofer and Tweeter circuits separate and solder them to the two sets of connectors. you could still build them onto one board but keep the positive and negative connections separated. I think Danny would prob say this isnt really necessary. He hasnt advocated hat in any of his upgrades and I've watched them all. He really only says to get the Bass drivers onto a seaparate amp from the Mid and tweeter on a 3-way speaker. as a tweeter draws so little current, it can be fed with the same amp as the Mid. If you watch all hid Klipsch, and B&W upgrades you see the same story - repeated again and again.
Sent you an email about finding out if you have upgrade kits for the Heresy IV
Looking at the build quality of those speakers, I would not pay the retail price of them.
Like non vaccination believer many don’t hear what years have taught you Danny. Like most thinking for me just stay open to new ideas
You can listen here ruclips.net/video/9JP4OINiQ14/видео.html the difference A modified, B original. If it has more breath in A it is catastrophic degradation in high frequencies. I advise you modify only the Woofer crossover.
You dont know that the original connectors can be used on both, with banana plug and with bare wire?
Does the No-res reduce the cabinet volume at all? Also other than making the cabinet wall acousicly "dead" ,does it make the cabinet seem larger to the woofer like poly fill or fiberglass insulation does?
the easiest way to find out is to put it to your mouth and try to blow through it, if you can it will increase the volume and i would bet this decreases it. often times they make the enclosure a little bit to big so there is room for a little but i think this is way overdone
Danny says it's basically neutral, @@Marleyismydog420 the damper layer reduces volume slightly but the open cell foam slows airflow and makes the enclosure behave as if slightly bigger - so really its a wash
You have added mass to the cabinet walls and the resonances have notably dropped in frequency, enough that they may now be within the working range of the driver.
You have also reduced the volume of the box quite considerably, likely enough that the port may now need to be longer to tune out the peak you have probably engineered in by reducing volume as well as increasing box frequency.
Show me a miked sidewall waterfall plot with and without no-res to demonstrate that you have actually reduced in amplitude any cabinet output and not just simply changed it.
Show me a before and after impedance graph so I can see the effect on port tuning.
I believe better would have been some small well designed braces to lift the panel resonances well out of the driver range and possibly disperse any pipe resonances within the box.
The reason high end speakers use air cored inductors is because an iron core will saturate at higher levels.
An iron core is plenty fast enough for the frequencies that the crossover is operating at and work perfectly well for the price and output of the speaker in this class as the price to upgrade is simply out of the realm of of a speaker this cheap.
Some designers even use the saturation of the iron core inductor to help compress the cone movement when driven hard to prevent damage to the driver suspension.
No-res is not a cure-all and can have negative impacts on performance and reliability.
The air cored inductors whilst usually an improvement must be considered against price as well as their excursion limiting properties in small systems.
link to the no-res?
I cannot hear a difference when knocking. You just knock harder on the other one.
That's because your speakers are no good - lol!
Klipsch RP600m with these improvements
Or JBL studio 530 with same improvements? I listen to mostly rock and hip hop. I personally like a deep bass. I’m looking for a dynamic sound with punch. Will be using for home theater and 2 channel music. Looking for best bang for my buck. Thank you for any input.
Where can I buy Nores foam? Thanks
Can the Yamaha NS-6490 be improved with a xover kit from you?
I would love to hear your thoughts, see your tests (and ideas for potential imporovements) on the _"World’s Best Speakers!":_ ruclips.net/video/CKIye4RZ-5k/видео.html
Can you please name all the parts you used to upgrade these speakers so i can order them online?
SMH
So you are saying that a resistor can have a sound? How is that possible? Can you point me to some measurements. 3:10
A resistance measurement will not tell you anything about how it sounds. You'll have to do some listening to know how different they can sound.
@@dannyrichie9743 That's my point. I know you're a measurement guy. What changes when you swap a cast resistor for another type? If nothing changes then the circuit can't change, hence the sound won't change. You know that. I'm assuming something must change and I'm trying to understand what.
No, the circuit can be the same and it can measure the same and still sound very different.
Check out this video: ruclips.net/video/cDl1hhT4ETU/видео.html
Can someone send him the legendary Klipsch RF7????
The No Rez appears to reduce the volume inside the cabinet. Will that reduce the bass response?
Yes, it will and I think it is rather negligent not to mention it. In fact I feel rather uneasy on this whole procedure of superficially looking at various components and saying that they are no good( or cheesey!!) . Are there before and after videos describing the improvements, or otherwise? Also, isn’t it a slap in the face of the engineers who have spent hundreds, if not thousands of hours getting the design right for production??
@@Nicholas.T Perhaps a slap in the face is required? Every klipsch I've heard sounded dreadfull.
Perhaps you missed the fact that Danny measured the speakers and found them lacking, hence the need for a new crossover? So, not a superficial look at various components and saying they're no good.
hi fascinating channel, does the no res not affect the internal volume of the speaker ?
Most of No-rez is open cell foam. So, yeah, the mass part of No-rez will shrink the volume a tiny bit, but its an insignificant change.
The damper takes up a little air space, but the foam layer slows down air flow in the box and makes it act bigger. The two usually are about a wash and the volume is not really effected.
I love your show can you send me all your Designed speakers the picture the Towers speakers and center surround speakers everything please Mr Danny I wanted ordered or I give me your phone number some time I can wait to see your show even I am driving my car sorry about my English thank you good luck with everything.
That foam did almost nothing to improve the resonance of that poorly made enclosure. The knock test showed it. For someone who knows how a properly braced and damped box sounds like it is obvious. Some internal bracings would have been a lot better at stiffening the box, but those don't make profit don't they?
No need for the insulting tone. He sells upgrade kits. How would "adding bracing" be included in kits that are mailed out? The owner of the speakers can add bracing. Think.
Those questions show just how abysmally ignorant some of your viewers are.