Statisticians feedback : its not the amount of decks but the amount of games that should be considered as the sample size for the win percentage. Given the relatively low sample sizes (at least for a number of decks) and high associated degree of uncertainty in the win percentages, I would recommend added the lower bound of the 95 percent confidence interval of the percentage, and perhaps to rank by that instead of the raw percentage (conservative approach). Lmk if you'd like help crunching the numbers!
It is the games that is calculated not the amount of tournament entrys. I am just showcasing that instead. It would be a really high value if I showcased the total amount of games played. I do that for players on the other hand.
Always interesting to see how different decks and strategies are doing. Kinda sad to see some presonal favorites not doing so well, but that's how it is. Also, not seeing any solo commanders in top 5 is kinda wild. Interested to see what happens with some of the decks seeing recent innovations
I’ve been playing cedh much as I can this year .. I still am making bad choices sometimes .. but the best thing I could recommend is just practice. I think me playing on web cam would help a lot too
Is there enough data where you could look at the top player (maybe top 50) and see what decks do best for them? Maybe that can give more context to the data. I do think Kinnan is a top tier deck that just has to be played by good players for example.
I noticed that a few of top performing decks in terms of showing up in top 16s have high draw rates. I assume it’s due to people drawing to get into top 16 so that also is probably effecting commanders like tayam.
I play K’rrik but I found in order to keep myself in the qualifier standings (39 as of right now) I have to bring other things. I’ve toyed with Talion, done decent but found I draw a lot which isn’t translating to top x. I tried Kraum/Tevesh but didn’t commit, been enjoying Atraxa but not sure how it’ll do it a larger event.
Hello sir! Id like to know your thoughts as blue farm player about the 3 decks in the top 4 at "End of Year Mox Diamond cEDH Tournament"? They dont have any ad nauseam, peer to the abyss or necropotence, more midrange style of play. And they got excellent results, playing cards as sheoldred
I am torn. It might not be wrong. Time will tell. I think they have a lot of good midrange cards that works fine with ad naus. I mean ad naus is just so strong so.... what to say.
how does the draw rate factor into your ranking? do you just use 1/4 of the draw rate? because a deck with 20 % win and 20% draw rate should be quite a bit better then a deck with 20% win and 10% draw rate, especially because draws also award some amount of points at tournaments as far as I know. Could you make a video about data regarding draws in general? I think it would be interesting know what the average draw rate is in Cedh and what neutral win rate that would result in (e.g. if 20% of all games are drawn the win rate of each deck in a pod would be 20%)
I calculat the total games playd. WINS + LOSS + DRAW and factor that vs ONLY WINS. So a draw is a loss in my book. But I do have the draw rate in theer aswell. A high draw rate is normally good. You could look at to commanders with equal winrate and use draw rate is tie braker.
I did a similar video but i thi k that you cant count the meta before LotR was released because bowmasters, lotho and the one ring completéis changed the meta
Hi, I think you could add a % modification for too few decks threshold, and viceversa, too take into account the amount of new/bad players picking popular decks like blue farm
Being in the top players probably play best commander honestly, I want know who playing average or lower commander get a lot wins cuz that more player skill in my opinion
I’m saying that if they are only have high win rate cuz they play best commander in general that’s not really skill to me as a player, if a player has a high win rate and is not playing the best commander say from your list B tier or less then that is truly a skilled player
I was wondering why the last two videos I haven’t made it on. I have total of 16 tournaments with almost all of them making the requirements. Overall win rate of 37.6%. Name is Temujin Horsey. Just curious what I’m missing
Yes I do. 100%! BUT! Bluefarm having super high population of players still has a good winrate. So when you look at kinnan vs bluefarm. Bluefarm should be stronger as both have a high player rate of bad players.
Love the video, do you think you could add the nicknames to the player list next time? I was watching some of them and just later realizing "oh right, they're THAT person, I literally watched their deckteck on this channel the past week"
I don't know some of these players. I use the names given from EDH TOP 16. Some have used thier nick names there. If someone writes and tells me what nick name thay have I can use that. All pictures of players that I have are from players that give me these pictures.
I don't personally recommend using top 5 win rate for an S tier indicator. Here it artificially removed your A tier when in reality all of those decks were pretty similar. But personally I think S tier should always be left for near tier 0, or basically meta defining decks that don't quite overperform and force representation.
You made a talion video a while back, but I couldn't find the link to the data from that video. I'm a big talion player. Would you be willing to share that data?
I have no link to any data. I collect decklists and wins loss draw from this tournament EDH top 16 website. edhtop16.com/?tourney_filter__size__%24gte=64&tourney_filter__dateCreated__%24gte=1659422080&colorID=null Then I calculat that data on my computer. So all the data is on my computer. The website link I sent you will take you to a place where you can scroll arround and look at decks that have enterd into tournaments and how it went for them. but also to this moxfield decklists. And from that if you spend like lots of days you can calculat things like I do. Is there any specific Talion data you want to find?
@@cedhtv in the video you were just talking about the success rate of cards, I was wondering if you had the ability to share the rest of your findings if there was some stuff that was not shared in the video c:
Tiny criticism to help your presentation: it is "too few" not "to few". "Too" indicates an abundance (eg: too much), while "to" is inclusive (it can often be replaced with the word "also" and the sentence will still make sense)
That abzan strange guy in tier B, while kinnan is in C? There is something wrong dude kkkkkk that abzan guy ia very shitty, while I saw 2 im C that are many time in top 5 in championships
Why are you staring at a list with 4 midrange decks at the top & saying the format is turbo combo? Straight up misinformation. Stax doesn't work, turbo doesn't work, midrange the format is midrange.
Acererak is pretty strong when tuned tbh. I suspect it probably just hasn't been entered into enough tournaments. Winning via infinite entrances into dungeons is pretty easy. As far as mono-black, goes.
@@cedhtv I get that, but A Tier with just one Deck is kinda pointless imho. For establishing that it exists I see that, but that sharp of a cutoff to B tier doesn't really benefit an actual balanced and useful tier list. With that you create the narrative that the S and A tier decks are a quite large margin above the rest. And especially for the case of Sisay in comparison the the next 4-6 decks below her in terms of winrate plus significant play it twists the narrative
@cedhtv you should invite Silent_e for a will and lucas deck tech. He basically designed the deck for what it is and is a really handsome open hearted guy who is willing to share his thought process he taught me about it aswell :)
Best 5 winrates: all partners. Totally balanced confirmed...
that is a good point. We need sisay up there!
I think threat assessment and mulligan evaluation are 2 of the most important skills in cedh.
I will agree to this. Mulligan feels like 40%. Really important to have a good opening hand.
Great video! I'm glad both me and Sean made the top 32 list. - Christian Wilkerson
congratulations! Well erned.
Statisticians feedback : its not the amount of decks but the amount of games that should be considered as the sample size for the win percentage. Given the relatively low sample sizes (at least for a number of decks) and high associated degree of uncertainty in the win percentages, I would recommend added the lower bound of the 95 percent confidence interval of the percentage, and perhaps to rank by that instead of the raw percentage (conservative approach). Lmk if you'd like help crunching the numbers!
It is the games that is calculated not the amount of tournament entrys. I am just showcasing that instead. It would be a really high value if I showcased the total amount of games played. I do that for players on the other hand.
Good info. Well presented 🎉
Thank you.
Very nice presentation! Sisay Go Go Go!
One day. She will be on the top!
Always interesting to see how different decks and strategies are doing. Kinda sad to see some presonal favorites not doing so well, but that's how it is.
Also, not seeing any solo commanders in top 5 is kinda wild. Interested to see what happens with some of the decks seeing recent innovations
I’ve been playing cedh much as I can this year .. I still am making bad choices sometimes .. but the best thing I could recommend is just practice. I think me playing on web cam would help a lot too
Web cam is a good method to get a lot of games.
20.67%, let's go!
Yay! Happy New Year Cedhtv !
Happy new years!
Is there enough data where you could look at the top player (maybe top 50) and see what decks do best for them? Maybe that can give more context to the data. I do think Kinnan is a top tier deck that just has to be played by good players for example.
That is somewhat my plan. To only look at the top players. Or use data only on top players and see what we can see from that.
Love wheb theres a new hair cut
Haha thank you!
I noticed that a few of top performing decks in terms of showing up in top 16s have high draw rates. I assume it’s due to people drawing to get into top 16 so that also is probably effecting commanders like tayam.
That and some stax decks just draggout the game to where no one can win and the game just run out of time.
I play K’rrik but I found in order to keep myself in the qualifier standings (39 as of right now) I have to bring other things. I’ve toyed with Talion, done decent but found I draw a lot which isn’t translating to top x. I tried Kraum/Tevesh but didn’t commit, been enjoying Atraxa but not sure how it’ll do it a larger event.
atraxa has currently 23,95% winrate. So kinda OK I would say.
Great video!
Thank you!
Hello sir! Id like to know your thoughts as blue farm player about the 3 decks in the top 4 at "End of Year Mox Diamond cEDH Tournament"?
They dont have any ad nauseam, peer to the abyss or necropotence, more midrange style of play. And they got excellent results, playing cards as sheoldred
I am torn. It might not be wrong. Time will tell. I think they have a lot of good midrange cards that works fine with ad naus. I mean ad naus is just so strong so.... what to say.
Kraum Tavesh gang ARISE
Cool . Go Koboldz!
Do your statistics include results from tournaments in Japan?
Yes it should. If Japan publish them on EDH TOP 16. Or I shall say use EDH TOP 16.
how does the draw rate factor into your ranking? do you just use 1/4 of the draw rate? because a deck with 20 % win and 20% draw rate should be quite a bit better then a deck with 20% win and 10% draw rate, especially because draws also award some amount of points at tournaments as far as I know. Could you make a video about data regarding draws in general? I think it would be interesting know what the average draw rate is in Cedh and what neutral win rate that would result in (e.g. if 20% of all games are drawn the win rate of each deck in a pod would be 20%)
I calculat the total games playd. WINS + LOSS + DRAW and factor that vs ONLY WINS. So a draw is a loss in my book. But I do have the draw rate in theer aswell. A high draw rate is normally good. You could look at to commanders with equal winrate and use draw rate is tie braker.
I did a similar video but i thi k that you cant count the meta before LotR was released because bowmasters, lotho and the one ring completéis changed the meta
What about the numbers of single target removal spells, protection spells and boardwipes that, in average win more ?
I am counting on that to. Or working on it. Don't know when it will be finished.
@@cedhtv thanks you
Hi, I think you could add a % modification for too few decks threshold, and viceversa, too take into account the amount of new/bad players picking popular decks like blue farm
Gonna keep playing Sauron. Gonna try to get him into B this year.
This is what I love to hear. Go for it. It would be cool to see more commanders with high CMC get higher winrate.
Being in the top players probably play best commander honestly, I want know who playing average or lower commander get a lot wins cuz that more player skill in my opinion
You mean what commanders these players play? Like what are the commanders the best players play?
I’m saying that if they are only have high win rate cuz they play best commander in general that’s not really skill to me as a player, if a player has a high win rate and is not playing the best commander say from your list B tier or less then that is truly a skilled player
and Brian Corval(BoshnRoll) only playing cEdh for a little bit and wins his first two offical tournaments. Brazy
What percentage of these decks contain black as a color identity? Lifeforce is so underplayed
emmm don't know. Haven't looked at that. But it should be quite high.
Rog thrasios lists should be running lifeforce.
what do you think about Slicer (the transformer commander)
I think he got something like 17% winrate. I did meantion him in the video.
Welp my cedh is a dead deck and worthless to play. Time to build another
❤❤❤
I was wondering why the last two videos I haven’t made it on. I have total of 16 tournaments with almost all of them making the requirements. Overall win rate of 37.6%. Name is Temujin Horsey. Just curious what I’m missing
I found you. You are now on the list with 38% winrate
@@cedhtvI appreciate it! Guess I don’t put myself out there enough haha.
@@TemKhan No it was a typo. I add names manully. Like copy past.
Do you think any of the super popular commanders are having there win rates dropped by new players getting into cedh and picking those ones?
Yes I do. 100%! BUT! Bluefarm having super high population of players still has a good winrate. So when you look at kinnan vs bluefarm. Bluefarm should be stronger as both have a high player rate of bad players.
@@cedhtv gotcha
Love the video, do you think you could add the nicknames to the player list next time? I was watching some of them and just later realizing "oh right, they're THAT person, I literally watched their deckteck on this channel the past week"
I don't know some of these players. I use the names given from EDH TOP 16. Some have used thier nick names there. If someone writes and tells me what nick name thay have I can use that. All pictures of players that I have are from players that give me these pictures.
hehehe just won some games with Rocco..
Sweet. Your wins have been used for this.
I don't personally recommend using top 5 win rate for an S tier indicator. Here it artificially removed your A tier when in reality all of those decks were pretty similar. But personally I think S tier should always be left for near tier 0, or basically meta defining decks that don't quite overperform and force representation.
Over time theer will be more commanders getting into enough games. and soon we will have more A tier commanders.
You made a talion video a while back, but I couldn't find the link to the data from that video. I'm a big talion player. Would you be willing to share that data?
I have no link to any data. I collect decklists and wins loss draw from this tournament EDH top 16 website.
edhtop16.com/?tourney_filter__size__%24gte=64&tourney_filter__dateCreated__%24gte=1659422080&colorID=null
Then I calculat that data on my computer. So all the data is on my computer.
The website link I sent you will take you to a place where you can scroll arround and look at decks that have enterd into tournaments and how it went for them. but also to this moxfield decklists. And from that if you spend like lots of days you can calculat things like I do.
Is there any specific Talion data you want to find?
@@cedhtv in the video you were just talking about the success rate of cards, I was wondering if you had the ability to share the rest of your findings if there was some stuff that was not shared in the video c:
Specifically for talion
Tiny criticism to help your presentation: it is "too few" not "to few". "Too" indicates an abundance (eg: too much), while "to" is inclusive (it can often be replaced with the word "also" and the sentence will still make sense)
Ah ok. I can change that. Thanks.
For b tier. You said armix/kruam. Did you mean tevish? Bc that looks like tevish to me?
yes might have said wrong.
Is there any way Yawgmoth can work as commander? Building deck from ground up.
He is not doing great. I think his win rate is around 7% or so. So not recommended.
Oof! @@cedhtv
Any stats on ishai tevesh?
Yes but to few games so we can't say anything from it currently. It just needs more games.
What is a win in this context? Game or tourney?
a game. I count WINS + LOSS + DRAW = total games vs WINS to get winrate %.
@@cedhtv does that mean anything sub 25% is bad? Like 1 in 4 chairs = 25% as fair share.
@@dave_8600 Not necessarily since draws bring the average win rate lower than 25% since they are counted as losses in his data.
@@bladefire2175 are draws common? I’ve never had one but very small sample
Is Temujin not on the list?
Is that a player?
Found him. He is now on the list.
What website do you use to track all this data? Lost the link and cant find it again :(
edhtop16.com/?tourney_filter__size__%24gte=64&tourney_filter__dateCreated__%24gte=1659422080&colorID=null
Where do you get all your stats from?
edhtop16.com/?tourney_filter__size__%24gte=64&tourney_filter__dateCreated__%24gte=1659422080&colorID=null
Lol, who dropped Mizzix's winrate that hard?
Not me! haha. I guess I do have the names of all players. But I am not ratting out people.
I didn't see slicer? I have won many cedh games with him..wondering your thoughts on slicer
7:52
I did showcase slicer in the video. It has 17% winrate.
what
No Unriveled? what a shame
There was a typo hs is in there.
That abzan strange guy in tier B, while kinnan is in C? There is something wrong dude kkkkkk that abzan guy ia very shitty, while I saw 2 im C that are many time in top 5 in championships
Why are you staring at a list with 4 midrange decks at the top & saying the format is turbo combo? Straight up misinformation. Stax doesn't work, turbo doesn't work, midrange the format is midrange.
Acererak is pretty strong when tuned tbh. I suspect it probably just hasn't been entered into enough tournaments. Winning via infinite entrances into dungeons is pretty easy. As far as mono-black, goes.
No
If A tier is just ONE deck, there isn't a point in that tier if ther is S tier as well
There could be more decks entering into A toer eventually once more commanders gets more games in.
@@cedhtv I get that, but A Tier with just one Deck is kinda pointless imho. For establishing that it exists I see that, but that sharp of a cutoff to B tier doesn't really benefit an actual balanced and useful tier list. With that you create the narrative that the S and A tier decks are a quite large margin above the rest. And especially for the case of Sisay in comparison the the next 4-6 decks below her in terms of winrate plus significant play it twists the narrative
@cedhtv you should invite Silent_e for a will and lucas deck tech. He basically designed the deck for what it is and is a really handsome open hearted guy who is willing to share his thought process he taught me about it aswell :)