Storage is the key to effective use of renewable energy, then you are not reliant on the wind blowing or the sun shining at the exact moment the energy is needed which is a huge thing. Nuclear power will also benefit greatly from knowing in advance how much power will be needed. It's great that a clever company like Tesla is taking this on.
Fantastic talk. Policy influencing wise... building a solid product and having policy follow isn't a bad strategy. But figuring out total cost per kilowatt hour of the entire energy generation system and finding the intercept point against coal prices is a great way to influence policy on economic terms. Especially when you consider that coal plants aren't properly costed; they essentially become useless once their price per kilowatt hour drops below that total system cost of sustainables per kilowatt hour - so the amortized costs for coal power generation has to be higher (cost of fuel + cost of plant/power generated = cost per kilowatt hour). And if you'd actually account for externalities, that intercept point is going to be even sooner, if it hasn't already occurred.
"I wonder how adaptable Tesla Gigafactory would be at changing to a different battery chemistry?" Elon Musk just said on Tesla Motors share holder meeting that they expect the battery chemistry to change (several times) while running the Gigafactory.
PERSONALLY I'D BE VERY HAPPY IF MORE WORK WAS CARRIED OUT TO ENABLE THE STORAGE IN AN EV TO BE CONNECTED TO YOUR HOUSE. I JUST DO NOT NEED TWO LOTS OF STORAGES MOST OF THE TIME. ADDITIONALLY, JB TALKED ABOUT 3 CARS CONSUMING .25MW AT THEIR CHARGING STATIONS. THIS IS A MAJOR ISSUE FOR THE NETWORK OPERATORS, BATTERIES OR NO BATTERIES. IF YOU ARE DEALING WITH 200 CARS PER HOUR LIKE A PETROL STATION DOES, THAT EQUATES TO 16MW REQUIRED AT THE CHARGING STATION. NO EXISTING DISTRIBUTION NETWORK CAN COPE WITH THIS. THIS IS TRANSMISSION SYSTEM LEVELS OF ENERGY. I RECKON INTERCHANGEABLE STORAGE IS THE WAY TO GO. DRIVE IN AND CHANGE OVER RE-CHARGED PACKS THAT ARE CHARGED ELSEWHERE.
if the battery pack does not consume itself then why does battery have ~10 years life. Wouldn't replacing battery every 10 years could get very expensive on a utility scale level? Imagine needing to rebuild a power plant every 10 years. How much does it cost to recycle the battery pack, 10% of a new battery pack? 50% of a new battery pack?
Main 1 Per the presentation, a pack that costs $8000 today, will see at least 2 generations of battery in 10 years, so for the same kWh rating, you'd pay $2000 for a fresh replacement.. Or, you could double your capacity and lower the stress on the battery by buying the $4000 pack. And actually that projection for 10 years seems conservative. Especially if any of these breakthru's come about, like solid state battery or ultra cap batteries. Geometric growth generates geometric growth.
Main 1 What he was saying is that the battery does not "consume" itself at the atomic level. It's a sealed unit. Every atom of each of the elements that was in there when it was made is still in there at the end of life. Processes like corrosion simply alter the way that the atoms combine to form different molecules.
Main 1 Lithium Ion batteries tend to develop microscopic metallic root-like "dendrites" between the cathode and anode after hundreds of charging cycles. These begin slowly causing the battery to internally short-circuit over time, and reduce total capacity and output. Various parties are developing ways to mitigate the problem such as putting a layer of graphene between the cathode and anode or making solid state batteries that do not develop the dendrite problem. Grid or home batteries have a usage profile that is different from a laptop or electric vehicle battery. The useful lifetime in that use case is estimated closer to 15-20 years. The technology is improving and getting cheaper each year, so it will cost quite a bit less to replace when the time comes, or you can upgrade the capacity if needed for the same price. Meanwhile the batteries improve the efficiency of the grid by reducing peaks and valleys in usage patterns. The daily peaks and valleys occur whether you are using renewables or conventional power sources. Much of grid power is wasted because it can't be used at the moment it is being generated. We need solutions like this to solve that problem.
RedBearAK The dendrite problem has already been solved, one of Tesla's video's show their new study, where they add a 2% solution to the electrolyte that resolves this issue.
Lithium-Polymer batteries cost more to manufacture and have a worse energy density than lithium-ion batteries. Li-Ion batteries they do not require priming when first used and have a low self-discharge, though they do age over time. These are the trade-offs.
This ought to go viral.
Storage is the key to effective use of renewable energy, then you are not reliant on the wind blowing or the sun shining at the exact moment the energy is needed which is a huge thing. Nuclear power will also benefit greatly from knowing in advance how much power will be needed.
It's great that a clever company like Tesla is taking this on.
Very impressive. I never thought energy storage would go anywhere besides "Vehicle to Grid" with EVs.
Great talk! Thank you so much for uploading!
I test drove a Tesla several months ago and I can't wait for the Gen III to come out. I'll never have to go to a gas station again.
Did you end up buy a model 3?
Fantastic talk.
Policy influencing wise... building a solid product and having policy follow isn't a bad strategy.
But figuring out total cost per kilowatt hour of the entire energy generation system and finding the intercept point against coal prices is a great way to influence policy on economic terms.
Especially when you consider that coal plants aren't properly costed; they essentially become useless once their price per kilowatt hour drops below that total system cost of sustainables per kilowatt hour - so the amortized costs for coal power generation has to be higher (cost of fuel + cost of plant/power generated = cost per kilowatt hour).
And if you'd actually account for externalities, that intercept point is going to be even sooner, if it hasn't already occurred.
I wish you would have uploaded this in higher quality. I can barely read half the slides.
If this guy says, "you know" one more time......Obviously I don't know. That's why I'm watching your video!
"I wonder how adaptable Tesla Gigafactory would be at changing to a different battery chemistry?"
Elon Musk just said on Tesla Motors share holder meeting that they expect the battery chemistry to change (several times) while running the Gigafactory.
Re: adaptable factory
JB does touch on that in this vid starting at about 44:34.
Shit, this guy does almost as much as Elon
PERSONALLY I'D BE VERY HAPPY IF MORE WORK WAS CARRIED OUT TO ENABLE THE STORAGE IN AN EV TO BE CONNECTED TO YOUR HOUSE. I JUST DO NOT NEED TWO LOTS OF STORAGES MOST OF THE TIME. ADDITIONALLY, JB TALKED ABOUT 3 CARS CONSUMING .25MW AT THEIR CHARGING STATIONS. THIS IS A MAJOR ISSUE FOR THE NETWORK OPERATORS, BATTERIES OR NO BATTERIES. IF YOU ARE DEALING WITH 200 CARS PER HOUR LIKE A PETROL STATION DOES, THAT EQUATES TO 16MW REQUIRED AT THE CHARGING STATION. NO EXISTING DISTRIBUTION NETWORK CAN COPE WITH THIS. THIS IS TRANSMISSION SYSTEM LEVELS OF ENERGY. I RECKON INTERCHANGEABLE STORAGE IS THE WAY TO GO. DRIVE IN AND CHANGE OVER RE-CHARGED PACKS THAT ARE CHARGED ELSEWHERE.
if the battery pack does not consume itself then why does battery have ~10 years life. Wouldn't replacing battery every 10 years could get very expensive on a utility scale level? Imagine needing to rebuild a power plant every 10 years. How much does it cost to recycle the battery pack, 10% of a new battery pack? 50% of a new battery pack?
Main 1 Per the presentation, a pack that costs $8000 today, will see at least 2 generations of battery in 10 years, so for the same kWh rating, you'd pay $2000 for a fresh replacement.. Or, you could double your capacity and lower the stress on the battery by buying the $4000 pack.
And actually that projection for 10 years seems conservative.
Especially if any of these breakthru's come about, like solid state battery or ultra cap batteries.
Geometric growth generates geometric growth.
Main 1
What he was saying is that the battery does not "consume" itself at the atomic level. It's a sealed unit. Every atom of each of the elements that was in there when it was made is still in there at the end of life.
Processes like corrosion simply alter the way that the atoms combine to form different molecules.
Main 1 Lithium Ion batteries tend to develop microscopic metallic root-like "dendrites" between the cathode and anode after hundreds of charging cycles. These begin slowly causing the battery to internally short-circuit over time, and reduce total capacity and output. Various parties are developing ways to mitigate the problem such as putting a layer of graphene between the cathode and anode or making solid state batteries that do not develop the dendrite problem.
Grid or home batteries have a usage profile that is different from a laptop or electric vehicle battery. The useful lifetime in that use case is estimated closer to 15-20 years. The technology is improving and getting cheaper each year, so it will cost quite a bit less to replace when the time comes, or you can upgrade the capacity if needed for the same price. Meanwhile the batteries improve the efficiency of the grid by reducing peaks and valleys in usage patterns. The daily peaks and valleys occur whether you are using renewables or conventional power sources. Much of grid power is wasted because it can't be used at the moment it is being generated. We need solutions like this to solve that problem.
RedBearAK
The dendrite problem has already been solved, one of Tesla's video's show their new study, where they add a 2% solution to the electrolyte that resolves this issue.
+AquaAce Dever
The deuce you say. That's excellent news. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would be interested in a link to that particular video.
:)))
Why not use the German designed "Lithium Ion Polymer battery" instead of a simple Lithium battery. It's much more advanced!!
Lithium-Polymer batteries cost more to manufacture and have a worse energy density than lithium-ion batteries. Li-Ion batteries they do not require priming when first used and have a low self-discharge, though they do age over time. These are the trade-offs.