5600 watt grid tied solar system with limiting inverters
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- Опубликовано: 6 авг 2018
- This is my 5600 watt capable solar system that uses multiple 120v limiting inverters to provide my whole house with augmented power. We have noticed over the past year of it working that our electric bill is reduced by about 1/3. we generally use about 60 KWH per day!
build list:
20 upsolar 285w panels
2 eco worthy combiner boxes
2 midnight solar 250 solar charge controllers
2 40amp solid state relays
4 1000w 48v to 120 volt sun-100gtil2 inveters
4 strings of sbs190f batteries
misc breakers and buss bars and wire as well as mc4 connectors - Авто/Мото
Nice system. I have the same inverters but a tip for longeivety is to mount them spaced off the wall an inch or two and put a fan under each unit which will blow cool air around and behind it. It will help overheating if running at near maximum and at other times can limit the internal fan coming on at all.
I had a system exactly like this in mind. Thanks for the video.
NICE SET UP KEEP MOVING FORWARD
I like this setup. You have given me an idea on how to setup something of my own. These power bills are getting ridiculous.
Nice setup. Self consumption is the way to go.
That is an awesome system, thank you for sharing. I'm living in Thailand and will be getting the
Sun GTIL-2000G2 with the 3M external limiter and WI-Fi. I have (4) JKM325PP-72. I plan on getting two more panels at a later date (2SX3P). I'm glad to see the kind of output you are getting on those grid ties. Originally I had no plans of maxing out the grid tie inverter, but now that I have seen your video, I think I will try it.
You have the information I have been looking for.
I did not have any good luck with the black box type external limiters! I did not show it here but the limiter that uses the blue amp clamp is what's working for me.
@@BertsFordFactory, thanks for your reply. At the last minute, I ended up getting the Solax 1.5 kw grid-tie. I'm hearing good things about them, plus it has 5 year, option 10 years on the warranty.
My unit cannot use a limiter, but they do have some larger units with a limiting function, but all these are 220 AC here in thailand.
Keep posting any updates, thanks again. I
I love this Inverter i have 3 myself woth leaf battery, the only thing that is bad is no power from the grid no power the Inverter, it would bee nice to have power when the grid is down.
By the way very nice setup you have with the 4 inverter..
looks great. good job
Duuuude...THIS is what i've been visualizing my system to be. The sun1000's seem to be the way to go vs. forking out the big bucks for a schneider or similar. If you don't mind just swinging on over here to my place and holding my hand and/or just do my whole install for me..that cool??? Seriously though...this is a sick system and seems the best way to go. Obsessively researching my own set up so as to get it right the first time.
Nice setup keep up to upgrade
thanks great set up
Very well done.
like your Solar philosophy, it's like the saying, "make hay while the sun shines."
Very nice setup
Very nice system, I plan on copying your setup but on a smaller scale of 3k watts of solar. Im currently strictly grid tie for now but will incorporate a battery bank system once I have the funds. The 5k you spent is a bargain compared to the 15-20k solar companies quote, and its yours from day 1. You'll have a return on investment in a few years. Also a suggestion, you can add a sine wave inverter off your batteries so you can have back up power just in case the grid goes down. Anyway Good job!
Thanks for the comment! I intend on grabbing a 5000w sinewave to add as you mentioned, its a budget thing:)
Very nice setup.Thanks for sharing. Just a suggestion, for SUN-GTIL2 inverters with FW Version 5.1, you can set the cut-off and cut-in (reboot) voltages in the programming parameter/settings. You don't need to use SSR to turn OFF and ON the GTIL once batt bank voltage goes up and down.
Love the project
Nice project
Good job
The stainless screws will corrode the aluminum. You have to use a special jell to prevent corrosion. You may have used it, but it isn't worth pulling the screws to do if you didn't probably.
the describtion you wrote under the video helped a lot .
Thank you!
I want to do an 800watt array on my shed. I have another channel I had started and want to do off grid testing in my backyard on it.
so I didn't add the connection to the main house lines for the amp clamps but basically there are four amp clamps that were sent with the inverters. two of these are connected to the main line of the house inside the breaker panel and the other two are connected to the second line. it's pretty tight in there and i did have difficulty getting all four connected but it does fit in my old box. i don't think ill be able to add any more without making changes!
all you have to do is put 1 clamp on each line and splice the single Ct clamp to both inverters. so 1 ct clamp will run 2 inverters .its pretty easy ;-) good luck
Excellent.. thanks for sharing and regards from Deutschland
Thank you too!
Nice system. I know this is an old post but here are a few comments. Unless the Midnights are different you want your panel voltage to be much higher than the battery voltage. Also you have a long run from your panels to your charge controllers. You are losing power there because of it. Two ways to solve it: higher voltage, thicker wires. Check out a DC voltage drop chart online. You will see what I mean. Disconnect those GTIs connected to the broken panels. You are back feeding the grid. In case of a power outage you could kill a lineman. I know it isn't much power but at best he/she will get shocked you will get in trouble for being an unauthorized electrical producer. Another smaller point on the batteries. Make all the runs from the batteries to the bus bar the same length. Although small, shorter cables have less resistance than a longer cables. You could be pushing too much power to some batteries and not others. Remember current flows on the path of least resistance. Its proportional so 0.1 ohms on one line and 0.2 ohms on a second at a wye means the first line gets one third the current and the second gets two thirds.
Thanks for the feedback!
Very nice !!!
Were you able to use the 3 meter limiter cable that came with, or did you have to lengthen that limiter cable?
You install your panel good,, but much better good if you have better ventilation to your panel, five inch from the roof., nice video
Yes I have about half that I did make sacrifices for shadowing, space, cost. Thanks
nice system
very nice sir
Update on performance? Do you have power to spare and add some more inverters?
No need for the relays, just set the lowest battery voltage on the inverters. It isn't auto-islanding it is anti-islanding. Islanding is when inverters run without grid being active. Nice setup.
Would this mean you have to disable the internal limiter/mppt. Thanks
You have to use schedule 80 pvc on a rooftop
You the man!
Amigo, esses inversores com limiter precisa da autorização da concessionária ?
I think what you are asking is if I need authorization to use these , if so the best way I can answer that is no. But it also depends on how you use them. You should always be careful not to send power to the grid if the grid is down because of the linemans safety. These have auto islanding to help with that.
Great video - great system. Old video now, but, any updates?
I actually sold the house and the system with it! I hope it’s working well for the new owner! I have a new net metered system now with enphase micro inverters. 8.7kw:)
very cool. I wish they offered a 2000 watt inverter option for the us in North america.
they do. needs a tad of mods though.
@@CardBoardBoxProwhat kind of mod do you need? Like the ground/neutral bond?
I've heard that they overheat if you run them near the max 1000 watts. But it looks like you haven't had any issues.
We had no issues running them full bore, but they really only run about 5 hours at a time.
Nice clean set up. I am running the same inverters but have two tied directly to the panels and two tied to batteries. Battery units come on at night only and recharge during daytime. Man you burn 60KWH per day ?!?! Who is growing weed ?
Well its legal here! but I'm using some of it to run those bitcoin rigs that you may see in the rack above the batteries!
well thats a wholenuther topic... unless this whole system was funded by it lol @@BertsFordFactory
How have these inverters held up after several years?
Nice
I really like the clean set up! I don’t see how you got panels for close to $100 apiece because it sounds to me like they are 300 W apiece and usually those go for around $300. Also I don’t quite understand the reasoning behind all the batteries because a) they would normally cost an arm and a leg, B) they will need to be replaced from time to time, and C) that’s part of the beauty of a grid tie system as you don’t have to have a battery bank. I can understand wanting to have some battery back up for night time or when the grid is down, So perhaps that is part of the plan. :-) One thing I don’t like about red tie system is they typically won’t work if the grid goes down. But batteries are kind of a relic and of course we are all waiting for the battery industry to unleash incredible innovations on us which will change everything.
vccranker hey man! Yes I got the panels from a clearance wholesale place in California, I think the seller was sun boulevard on eBay, it was a gamble but they had good ratings and ended up treating me well, also they are 24v 285w panels made by upsolar so not as popular. The batteries are also unique because I got them for free so I added them to the system more for a learning experience. They charge in the am when less AC is need by the house then in the evening they supplement the load for the inverters to effectively extend my sun into the night. I have the voltage setup so that they only discharge to 47.5v before shutting off, which is really light use. Thanks for the comment!
@@BertsFordFactory Very cool. Smart that you got such a great deal on the panels and free batteries! : - ) I paid over $600 for 2 x 300 watt panels. Oh well. Still happy with them. Charging in the am is the way to go I hear. Congrats!
Just wondering why the relays are needed in this setup??? I would think the battery limit voltages could be set in the inverters, no?
Goood video, i have the inverter ? How do i monitor the energy Data via RS232 (serial port) on Windows? Which software do I use?
Followup question. So all four inverter is drawing power from a one bundled battery pack via common bus bar. Now how did you connected the four limiter sensors from 4 inverters since i did not see it in the video. Thanks
I made a breakdown video that shows the amp clamp connections but basically I have two inverters connected to each load main line.
So you have two midnite solar mppt, each charging 8 batteries in each banks, and you have two banks (8+8). And the output of each bank are combined(in parallel?) to power a single negative common bus and single positive common bus. And all four inverters simultaneously draws power from the common bus?
Did i get it correctly? Im just trying to picture it where i can pattern my project. Can you correct if i missed anything. Thank you.
Yes except I am 48vdc system so I only have eight battery banks total. Also good to note that the mid nite solars are charging all the batteries in sync, it’s a option to link them and have one in command of the other.
hello
Nice setup... so i want know if all of the GTIL use the same batri bank ?
yes, at first I had them separated but the unequal usage was not working for me so I switched to the common buss bar to the battery bank. It is better now cause I can add batteries to the whole system easily.
I noticed that you are using internal limiter connection. Did you have to change the default factory settings in all 4 GTILs, or you kept it on MPPT mode since the limiter is connected? Thanks
I had to set them all because they are activated by battery voltage and you never knew which one would come up faster!
im just starting to get into this solar gridtie systems .i currently have the solar panels connected right to my grid tie inverters . which works fine during the day .i have an 60amp mppt charge controller and batterys what i would like to do is during the night have the system run off the batterys untill the charge controller cuts it but i cannot figure out how during the day to not run it off my batterys i would like to use only the sun during the day and have the panels charge my batterys .any ideas thanks .
So im not an engineer but the simplest thing that comes to mind would be a timer. you might also integrate a light sensor ( like for a night light ) into an input ( if available ) on your charge controller. I will say that the top end usage of the batteries like I do is very light on the batteries and they should last 10 years or more because of the light cycle im using. I set the float at 54.5 and on a 48v base and only discharge to 47.5.
Did you use the wire with the blue connector to your main power line
Yes I used 4 of hem but they now sell dual cables like that with on clamp that use less space!
Can you please explain the bus bar and the SSR setup?
The busbar setup allows me to share all the batteries with the multiple inverters equally or as needed per inverter. I have the main line entering the house separated for efficiency which is why the multiple inverters rather than one large one. the ssr's turn the inverter on and off ( controlled by the charge controller ) based on voltage of the batteries.
Very nicely set up, you didn’t say how you set up the limiters, my mate has two and the limiters are fighting against each other
I used the internal limiters, they go up and down together then level out. Can’t remember the exact settings
Thanks for sharing Buddy fantastic system you should be proud! Were you ever able to verify if one CT clamp can in fact be used for two GTIL2's? Thanks again!
I have 2 inverters with 1 ct clamp you wire the single ct clamp with the 2 input wires going to the inverter 1 ct clamp will limit 2 inverters . There is a guy selling a dual ct clamp I bought that ot is trash all he did was wire 2 ct clamps together . He claims there is a circuit but when you connect 1 ctclamp the other one hums. Hope this helps.
@@TheSpidersoftheworld Did you wire them in parallel or series ?
@@GlennRathke_WX they need to be wired in series . With a resistor. You can then run a parallel connectionaka splitter to each inverter and connect the 2 ct clamps to the single parallel connection comming from the inverters .
2 ct clamps are limiting 4 1000watt inverters
So at times you are not using too much power, do they backfeed to the grid at all, or can they internally control that?
they are limiting inverters so yes they do not allow energy to be sent back out to the grid.
I thought these inverters did NOT work with a battery bank power ?? apparently you found a way around this??
Ive seen them used in other configurations and each one is utilizing a pass thru conventional inverter for use of battery bank
You can set the inverter to shut off at a certain battery voltage. Your battery bank however has to be setup to work within the working voltage input of the inverter.
Which Port are you using for limiter sensor power going to grid. Internal or external
The clamp cable is connected to the internal port and then in the settings you have to set it up.
So the system uses the solar panels to charge the batteries. You use the batteries as a DC source for the grid tied inverters to 120v?
yes that is correct! it works nicely due to the household having low usage in the am when the batteries charge. the rest of the day the batteries are "pass through" really. it is similar to telecom setups, which is also why you see the two system redundancy.
Does each inverter connected to its own battery bank? Or all four inverters is powered by one large battery bank split into four. Thanks
They work from a common buss tied to all batteries
Is it possible for you to make a video regarding the sensor clamp, location of the sensor clamps and how you stacked the inverters.
I have added some batteries and so intend on an update video ( with better sound ) soon. The clamps are attached so that the two inverters on the left are connected to the same main line in the breaker box and the two on the right are connected to the other main line. They seem to balance the load randomly depending on which one powers up first.
@@BertsFordFactory looking fwd. to the update. i am looking to expand but would love to hear how these have been working for you before i pull the trigger on a couple more units. i am torn between have 4 units or getting something bigger that is similar in rating, 4kw, but will end up costing me more.
I was wondering if you have a diagram as to how you setup your solar system. I am trying to duplicate the same system and you are the only person I have seen in your videos to do what I am trying to do. Any info you have, would be greatly greatly appreciated.
No, sorry I might sit and draw one up, if so I’ll post it
Great
Are these type of inverter also MPPT ? ...The question is since they are connected directly to a 48 volt battery instead of solar panel...did you shutdown this option ? You mentioned that these inverter are for 48 to 120 volts ...in ebay or Amazon...I only find in two DC input voltage ranges 22 to 60 and 45 to 90 V ...From where did you get yours ? Last question, the relays are used to cut the AC output of the inverter? In other words, the inverter are not really shutdown...but the AC export. Hence, since they don't see the AC line...is basically like a grid power shutdown condition. Thanks
Great questions! they are MPPT. it is still used because the inverter sees different voltage based on state of charge 47.7V- CD 57VCD not much difference but still. I got mine from ebay ( ecoworthy ) they are 45-90 on DC side and 120V on AC side. The SSR's are actually used to cut the supply line to the inverters which turns them off completely. These inverters are auto islanding and auto sensing so they need an "example" voltage to power up, sample and emulate. they then send the current back the same line until the ssr shuts of the sample source.
Hi are them still. Working?
I want to install almost the same setup as yours, just not with the batteries. Is there anyway you can show me how you install the 4000 watts with limiter?
Thanks for watching, I’m releasing an update that’s more technical tomorrow 24mar
This is exactly what I’ve been looking for. It doesn’t back feed the grid at all? No involvement with the power company?
It does not back feed due to auto islanding and also only makes power if needed by house or battery.
It's been a few years since I first saw this video. How are the GTILs holding up?
Well we sold the house a couple years ago so I couldn’t tell you. The new owners were told to call with questions and we haven’t got any calls:) they were working great when we sold the house.
In your video you said you are running 240 volts off of one battery bank with no problems. No trouble with neutrals on the inverters?
I would like to see a diagram if you would have one. Setting up a 2k system next month, and would save if I can use a single battery bank instead of two.
I did not have any troubles with neutrals. Unfortunately I do not have a line drawing.
What solid state relays did you use, and where did you purchase them? I’m having troubling finding some inexpensive ones that don’t burn up at even 1/4th their rating. Thanks again for your video.
I just ordered them from eBay, I don’t recall the brand but if it’s important I can get the part number. I think they were cheap like 20 bucks
@@BertsFordFactory I figured out what you used after I watched the video again ~Thanks! I was trying to shut off the DC side, but when I paid attention that you were using the AC side and the auto-islanding I got it.
One more question: What type of wire did you use for the eco-worthy combiner boxes? It seems I need a 6 gauge sunlight-exposed single conductor wire to run into the box, but I'm having trouble finding that too. I always manage to work against the grain.
Can you show the clamps on the main breaker?
I do not have a picture of the clamps specifically but in the other videos I show them.
Do the inverters balance themselves out or do they seem to run differently to each other?
At first start up one spins up then when the second one comes on they find a balance.
How’s the system been working? Any replacement?
Is it ok in your country to install this kind of electric installations without license?
There are rules but if it’s your building yes
Really nice work! I have a couple of questions: Are you running the inverters in Solar/Battery mode (which disables the MPPT function of the inverters) and using the Mid Nites to power up the batteries and the Mid Nites handle all the charging? Then from the batteries, the inverters get their DC power? Do you then have the DC disconnect voltage set in the inverters so when the sun goes down you go on just batteries until you reach your disconnect voltage? I assume if that way when the sun comes up and the inverters see the reconnect voltage the whole process starts again without you doing anything??
You are correct with everything except the midnites monitor the battery voltage and activate the solid state relays to turn the inverters on and off based on battery voltage. I just didn’t trust the inverter to manage the batteries.
@@BertsFordFactory Thanks! And again, great job on your system!
i would wire panels in series to bring amps down and add more panels
I ran out of usable roof! I could have added another line or two but at a fairly steep angle :(
Hey I know this video is a couple of years old the blue grid tie inverter power limiter I was thinking about making a similar system I was wondering how those inverters are working and if they still do. lot of mixed reviews on Amazon
I sold the house that this system was installed on. I did have them running full time for more than 2 years without issue before that.
what are the blue inverters' max panel voltages? you have 10 strings with 2 panels each? are they 100W panels? whats the maximum dc voltage for the inverters? Not a lot of documentation on these things. Can I wire 3 x 320w panels to them?
Not sure on the specs I can’t find the booklet, I used the outback’s for string management. You can probably wire your panels in parallel to keep the voltage down.
Looks like a great setup! Would you have done anything different? Do you limit the inverters at all or run at 100%. was there another vendor you were thinking of?
I run all four on the limiting feature built in using the clamp meter supplied. It did worry me that multiple inverters on the same supply line might not work but they balance really well.
master bert great. I have two that I will be installing. Are you finding that the 4 meet most of your power needs or are you thinking of adding more? I wish they made a bigger unit.
@@zekeboz5533 I thought they made a 2000 watt unit also.
Are these inverters still good and running without any issues? Nice project
Yes! I had a to replace one of the solid state relays but the inverters are working great still!
can i connect 48v 800w wind turbine via charge controller or rectifier?
I’ve not worked with wind before but I think there is a couple things to do besides handling the power. I know they have concerns with over speed that’s controlled by other equipment and the such.
is there a little bit going back to the grid even with these limiter or not? cuz if they see that it goes back to the grid the provider can fuck you up, i wanna do a systeme like this but i'm afraid of this issue
The auto islanding built into the inverters prevents that. They will not turn on until the source voltage turns them on and turns them off when it is gone. Perfectly safe!
Are you still using the SUN inverters? Wonder how they are holding up?
I no longer own that house / system. They were running without issue for several years. I have not heard otherwise in the last two years. I do stay in contact with the new owner.
Thanks for the great video. Now there is the 2000 watt model if you had to start ur setup again would you get 2 2000 watt models or stick with the 4 1000 watt models
Good question I'm interested in the answer myself, hope he answers.
Where did you get the bus bar terminals?
I don’t remember where I got mine but they are called barrier terminal blocks. They are inexpensive and can be found on eBay.
Once setup. What was the issue with the Whizbang?
honestly I didn't look into the why but it just quit reading and reporting to the controller. I wasn't really worried about quantity of use due to using so much more than I can make and I manage the batteries via voltage drop.
No dregrees for panels? Here 45°
usuario user I actually set up for a semi annual panel tilt system but the space wasted due to shadow and also the Diagonal roof alignment would have limited me to 10 panels, which did not justify the added efficiency:(
Where to download monitor softwares for these inverters?
Jeff Xiong sorry friend but I do not know:(
Do you gave 4 ct sensors. 2 on each leg?
Yes I do have two sensors per leg.
great set up. did you stack the grid tie inverter on 2 lines? how did you organize the clamp sensors?
two of the inverters per line in the main fuse panel for the house. its tight!
so that being said, does this mean the two sides links to one another inorder to keep phases 180 off? or does it not matter as the inverter are already matching the freq anyway? @@BertsFordFactory
You can get a cable that goes from up to 4 inverters to just 2 coils, connected L1 and L2. Search ebay for GTIL CABLE
what is your load characteristics? i'm planning to use solar panel, for the beginning i'll install 960 wp total with the same inverter with 2.000 w output without batteries, but in worst scenario my loads can spike from hundreds w to 4.500 w in a second. the objective is to reduce the bill on daytime only (laundry machines). i wonder if the inverter will last long
Often in the summer these inverters run at 100% load for several hours every day. Yes we use 4000w continuously often! They are still running strong!
@@BertsFordFactory good to hear that. i just install my PV panels with this inverter this day. too bad it's cloudy, from 920 wp panels, i only get 200 w
Hello, i need your help please , i have 2 inverters as you have, but my main wire is 1 only (one phase 220v). .so how i must install my 2 limiters ? on the same phase? it will be okay? or i must make parallel the 2 limiter wires and use just one limiter? thank you very much
I wish I could help you but I have no experience with single phase 220. I do think that two inverters on the same phase source will not work without so sort of comber equipment.
We have the 2000 watt version however it stopped working do they have an internal fuse it says lifetime warranty what's the page on Amazon disappeared thank you in advance
Sorry just saw this. I have no idea about the internal fuse. I don’t hold much hope on getting warranty coverage:(
I assume you have hooked this up without inspection from utility.I’m scared to do this because I don’t want a lawsuit.Any ideas or have you pondered this in your plan?
These inverters are auto islanding and very safe. All this wiring, except the outlet is low voltage. Zoning is different everywhere but I did not require any special permissions. The mounting of the panels usually requires a permit though which was easy.
Hello, i order 2 grid tie inverters 1000w each with limiter . My question is. I have just one phase, can i connect the 2 limiters on the same phase?it will work fine? Thank you
I believe it will, that is what I did for each leg.
I saw there is 240V version of this inverter. Wouldn't it be better since it can feed both of your lines of the house ?
Martinko Pcik you are correct, they do offer the 240 v version of the inverters I use. I chose to use multiple 120v units for a couple reasons. If you look at the system on the board you will see that it's really two systems working together, the panels and combiner boxes are also split in this way. The batteries are the only common component. So redundancy is one reason, if a part fails I have a working system still. The most important reason though is because my line 1 and line 2 house loads are not balanced, as I suspect most households aren't, I believe that the 240v inverter would energize both lines equally which would send unused power on the lower utilized line out to the grid. I'm working on an update video that shows the load sensors and I'll show the unequal line utilization also.
@@BertsFordFactory That's a good point about lines in general not being balanced. That's the reason why 240v inverter would not help to optimally minimize grid power draw. Thank you. It helped to clear that in my mind.
I have two of the 1000 watt grid tie inverters and one failed after 8 months.
Sorry to hear that:( I use these very lightly I think maybe that explains my good luck so far.
I see that all the inverter AC outputs are connected together in one socket. Is there a special way to connect the ac togather or not?
Yes, the outlets on the left are activated by the SSR on the left ( all line 1 ). the same is true for the right. the outlets are all 120V AC but because they goto different inverters they represent different phases so together ( line one and line two ) makes 240V AC in the house.
@@BertsFordFactory thanks
How have these inverters held up?
We have moved and so I could not tell you more than to say they worked for three solid years without issue.
Your inverters work again today? No problem?
Yes! We actually have some sun up here in Seattle so I made a little over 13kwh yesterday!
Do you know what the efficiency is on these. I got mine and I'm only getting 75%
I do not, I also have not checked.
I also get 75%
@@diydan6045 ya it's not great but what I'm using it for it will work.
Seems kinda expensive way to go but looks great
yes! I work in the telecom industry and I tend to lean towards redundancy. you are right I could have done the same thing without some much equipment.
Check out my system . Click on my name
Do you have a link for cheap batteries