Adult human male should be very relevant! It means the he/him is natural, and uncontroversial. Which excludes the ones for whom this isn’t true. Sucks for them, I suppose. Because Adult human male/female is the reality for 95% of the population.
@@lynnm6413 being very normal and natural is very very controversial. Being sane and peaceful is a hate crime. Outrage culture, wokeism and Islamism is the new moral standard.
@@lynnm6413Adult human male/female is 100% of the population. Even with the negligible amount of intersex people. Their chromosomes dictate the sex they were born to be, if the development in the womb had gone according to plan.
Also woke logic - gender is a social construct and social constructs are harmful and oppressive, so naturally we demand everyone adhere to our system of pronouns, which is demonstrably a social construct
All this "celebrating diversity" and "being inclusive" - seems to me an excuse for bullying. Not acceptable. It's more than word games it's psychological games .....messing with people's heads
They DON'T celebrate diversity though. It's racism and sexism writ large. ALL of it against one particular group. The true face of Discrimination, Exclusion and Intolerance (DEI) should be broadcast far and wide!
Women were more than happy to jump on the 'rainbow' bandwagon just to dump all over heterosexual men only to have the 'trans' mob hijack it and now these same women want the men they dumped on to defend them from the very people they jumped onboard with. Ironic huh!
I think if the employees work has and is satisfactory they had no right to sack him I'm sorry he lost his case on a political harassment item which has nothing to do with his work. I think he is well out of that woke toxic workplace and hope he gets another job. It is appalling how many are being attracted due to this woke rubbish that has been allowed to take over so many places that should be caring for people as people not as some ideology that has our futures in danger while it is allowed to remain in place let's get hard headed and say no to this rubbish.
In my opinion everybody should live their lifes how they want....as long as they don´t bother anybody, or try to involve others into their "own beliefs" all should be fine, that´s called "personal freedom"!
I can so identify with that council worker . Not only because I was a council employed bus driver here on the Isle of Wight , but because I'm a "Adult Human Male" 😊 I hope he sues those DEI woke , gender benders for all they've got ❗
It's always dressed up as kindness and caring. If you live in North Korea, you have to praise your leader, and behave as if he is the biggest saviour the world has ever seen. Hitler had films made, about the concentration camps, telling the public how wonderful they were, and that the Jewish people were being treated kindly, and living in a wonderful environment, rather like holiday camps. It's probably always been that way. If evil poses as evil, they'd never get away with it.
@@secondchance6603 I've thought about that - . They aren't stronger than men not likely to assault them in anyway And to be a woman going into a man's space - you are likely to be genuine, or you wouldn't due to the above considerations the other way round
@@manchegocheese997That is terrible. We will have to shout out about this nonsense as a collective. I was told I didn’t have to put myself down as a Mrs or Miss so why force this shite upon anybody?
The Governor of Arkansas in America has banned all that idiotic nonsense from all their Governing documents and letters in and out of offices. It’s a start.
Congratulations wonderful some minds are starting to loose the black woke cloud let's all countries states etc take this important step back to normalcy god bless 😊❤
Ah but you forgot people who are BORN intersexed - people who are BORN expressing genitalia from BOTH sexes at birth. They do exist and they are a third gender and a third sex. Now because our society cannot accept such things, parents of the Intersexed person and the doctor attending the birth will operate on that person and decide, against the Intersexed person’s free will due to that person being a newborn, to ARBITRARILY CHOOSE the gender they think the Intersexed person should be. That is a decision the Intersexed individual should make on their own when they are old enough to make that free will decision themselves. It is, after all, their body that they were born with and they should have full control over their body. So you are completely in error to write that there are only two sexes and two genders. 😀
Having spenþ the first 40 years of my life in a sane country , the last couple of ddcades of complete and utter stupidity across the board in every institution from schools to government is getting very tiring .
It's not stupidity it's done on purpose to try and break the UK the shops are closing in favour of internet shopping office buildings emptying for AI technology these buildings will be turned into flats causing ghettos and slum areas the councils and government are working together it's TREASON against the British people
It is absolutely bullying and there seems to be too many people who are influenced by bullies who use social media these days. It's also an attack on personal privacy if you don't want to expose your preferred pronouns regardless of whether you're in favour of the ideology or not . (Signed, adult human female).
Secondary school teacher of 12 years who lost his job after I questioned all the transgender assemblies senior leaders in our school were giving, trying their damn best to normalise it. Most students disagree. Most teachers disagree. No one says anything out of fear. My union rep said I was incredibly lucky I wasn't barred from working with under 19yo's as well as losing my job... just think about that for a minute... the stigma. THIS IS THE WORLD WE LIVE IN.
I`ve despised Councils and their ways ever since my much older business partners wife, as a long serving Ealing London Council manager had to eventually tell off a black girl for constantly being late. She went to the diversity manager saying she didn`t like her managers attitude. Result, this loveliest of people was asked to take early retirement.
That’s utterly disgraceful. Doing the same with criminality. If you can be considered a victim those in charge are over the top in trying make you one, even if you actually are the bully.
Sadly, we can't boycott a council - but we can send thousands of emails of complaint... so give us an address and let's do it! We have to make our views heard NOW!
The problem here is not just the pronouns. The problem is being forced to use them by directors and chief executives that no one vote for to run the council. Members of the public in any given council area don’t get a choice of those at the top of the councils that make the decisions that cost the taxpayers money or how the council is run and by who. They are not held accountable for their actions or idiotic ideas.
Throughout my life, I've been mis-named (Mike instead of Michael) and mis-nationalitied (English, Australian, South African or Scottish instead of Irish). I've never fired or cancelled anyone, in spite of such heinous behaviour.
So you can make up any old rubbish and demand it be used as your pronouns, but as soon as you use the scientific term, you're sacked. Absolute madness. Edit.. maybe we should all just go full throttle with the most ridiculous pronouns and watch society eat itself alive it would also take away the attention from these people that they so desperately crave because if everyone's special then no one is 😅😂
Whilst I support trans people living their best lives, it stops when it comes to changing my use of the English language to nonsensical pronouns, to accommodate individual preferences. Language rules serve a purpose (to help each of us communicate with others) so those who expect every single person they meet to remember their chosen pronouns are deluded, at best. Most of us are too busy working, raising families, and endeavouring to survive in this crazy world.
It's all a load of complete nonsense! For a woman in her fifties, no one; I mean, no one, will ever force me to refer to a single person by plural pronouns. I was taught grammar at school, and am not about to change now.
We had a private consultancy company employed by our company, they emailed every manager in my department and the person sending the email had the pronoun identifiers printed after their name. Every single person in my department ignored and didn’t answer the email.
When I started working in the civil service in 1993, I joined a campaign to be allowed to have email signatures, and signatures on letters that were completely gender neutral. We wanted to drop the Mr, Ms, Miss, Mrs in the signatures to avoid bias. We managed to do that and life became a bit easier, especially for women working in a male dominated area. But now, the signifiers are back in the form of pronouns. And they're not even accurate in some cases! The demand (or suggestion) to put pronouns on signatures is a modern day shibboleth, designed to see who is in agreement with the ideology and who is not. It's the very opposite of inclusive.
So you are partly to blame then? In what way is putting a word used for years as best practice in business (like Mr/Mrs) bias? So that decision was made to help the feminists who felt they were being discriminated against was it? You reap what you sow. All these changes of things that have been around decades don't necessarily mean they're better. They were included for a reason. And what does it matter whether someone wants to address themselves as Mr or Mrs? Not even all women are feminists are they? So that decision was made to placate a certain percentage (feminists) in our society who may be in a minority, just like these crazed gender benders are a minority in our society these days. But what is now happening especially in the public sector is the ideology is being forced down people's throats so they have to accept it or lose their jobs. It's a good thing that the people running our public services and business didn't have that attitude when you decided to support the feminists isn't it? Otherwise, trying to change it might have lost you your job.
@@jimosullivan1389 According to the Transgender mob you don't have to do anything because according to them there are no differences between a man and a woman. A man can be a woman and a woman can be a man. Therefore, as we all think, look and feel the same why do we need to know who one is writing to? For a small percentage of the world population (transgenders are probably less than 1% of the whole planet's population), so as to make these poor darlings feel inclusive when most of them (not all) voluntarily decide they want to be a different gender, hundreds of years of history and precedent have to be pushed aside by the rest of us. Utter tosh!!
I abhor the bastardisation of the English language which is what they are doing. No public office should ever use pronouns in any of their documentation.
Its more in the name of inclusion, they dont want people taking the piss. If he had just put down his pronouns or even argued against putting any, he wouldn't have been fired or lost the the tribunal. Its because of the way hes gone about it, treating it like a joke, thats cause his problem.
@clivebonneywell6967 why wouldnt i be, he had clear choices. Agree and disclose his pronouns, disagree and resuse to disclose. He chose an option that showed he didnt take it seriously and indirectly invalidated others.
At my workplace, I've been sent more than one email over the past few years demanding I "complete" my "personal profile" on their Workspace app. As I feel my sexual orientation, religion, ethnicity, let alone my "preferred pronouns" have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the amount of work I can and am able to do on a shift, my personal profile *is* complete, thanks.
And guess why you havent been fired over it, because you are allowed to refuse to provide any information on your protected characteristics. It would be a different story if you went and filled it in with joke answers that shows you dont take it seriously. Thats why the guy they are discussing lost at tribunal.
@@branbroken Yes, exactly. I haven't done that because I've never felt the need to do that myself. But the demanding tone in the emails get rather annoying. I conveniently forget about receiving them having already filed them under 'B'. I'm not the only one who refuses to comply and it wouldn't bother me if I was.
@Psammead21 no, i get it. Im constantly getting requests from work to complete equality and diversity form too and i wont fill it in either and i wouldnt even if i was one of the criteria they are looking to meet diversity points on, its my private business. They don't need to know.
"adult human male" is not a joke, that is an assumption that it's some kind of joke he made. it seems deadly serious to me. it seems as clear a description as he could have given, considering the question had a range of answers, a range that is seemingly vast, and ever-expanding. who made up the list? is it an evolving list? does it encompass people's good-faith efforts to expand the list to include them? are they to be excluded?
Unfair dismissal case right there. Take the individuals responsible to the cleaners, not the council, as the council will use taxpayers money to pay legal fees and any settlement
Because adult human male is not a pronoun. If he had played ball and just put he/him thered not have been an issue, if he had refused to disclose pronouns on the email signature he may have been questioned on this and why he wasnt following policy however you generally have a protected right not to identify/disclose that information and if he was fired he would then have won the tribunal. What you can't do is what this guy did and turn it into a joke and invalidate others.
@@branbrokenI don't see what he put as a joke. He stated facts, leaving others to decide on the appropriate pronoun for someone described in that way.
@@branbroken facts were stated. What is wrong with stating facts? Ok, so the question wasn't answered but only straight facts were given, nothing stupid or funny 🤷
it is an assumption that it was mockery. you absolutely do NOT and cannot claim to know the intent. it could easily be seen as an attempt to be clear, in an increasingly confusing situation. maybe the person felt he might put " he/him" and somehow " get it wrong" and be vilified.
ie you are assuming trolling. but language is for clarity. people ARE confused over this. you could assume mockery, but is there a chance that that assumption is wrong? could absolute clarity, to the best of his ability, be the intention? law rests on intention quite often.
I think I understand the French Revolution now, and I have the unsettling feeling we are in the Western world and are heading for a repeat with this never-ending stupidity of the bureaucratic classes.!?
the vastness of the beaurocracy is growing and the useful idiocy abounds. I have an eg or 10, one even being from the crown prosecution service, most people in " jobs" are not academically able, they do not question or interrogate orders using critical thought. they are employed for this purpose.
What a TOTAL disgusting DISGRACE, the judge should also be dismissed, this madness has gone too far and this sets a completely unfair precedent as it defies reality and the public who do NOT want this pushed onto them! Appeal or take to a higher authority - maybe the court of so-called Human Rights will be more realistic?
ECHR details that compelled speech is an infringement of human rights, so if this guy had simply refused he would have won. But because he essentially trolled them, he won’t now win. This should be a warning to people. Simply refuse and elaborate, but don’t fire back and you will win. If you try to be clever you waive that.
Let's hope this serves as a warning to those unwillingly affected - it seems that it is a case of refusing then, but if pushed by management, do not elaborate and just repeat your refusal? It would be good to know how you get out of a position like this in writing. What exact phrase would suit in rejecting a pronoun email imposition 'offer' from a council or official body? ie; (1) "Thank you but I do not use pro-nouns"? (2) "I believe in freedom of choice and do not use pronouns"? (3) "Thank you for the update, I do not wish to use pronouns personally"? An exact legal phrase agreeable to an appeal court would be good to know. Can a council however INSIST on you addressing colleagues by their prounoun, if given, and EVEN if you have stated your right and wish not to participate? This is important.
@garryokeefe1605 everyone uses pronouns, you cant avoid them. You can refuse to disclose your prefered pronouns, in which case anyone you interact with will infer them, so don't go being an arse if the pronouns you prefer are not used after refusing to disclose. You may not find disclosure of pronouns so silly if someone constantly usd one you dont identify as.
@@garryokeefe1605 I would take the ‘prefer not to say’ route. If it is included in your job application process, if it is included in applications for anything in the council itself I.e housing etc, you should be within your rights to simply say ‘no, I prefer not to say.’ Then, if pushed you are now being compelled.
@@branbroken Thanks Bran, but no one uses them in my office while I'm freelance anyway and don't do any major interfacoing with anyone. I haven''t had any dealings with such bodies for many years now or anyone who does, so its not for me and I'm not joining the nonsense. I come from a more sensible era and have a birth name which I find sufficient and I'm for staying with that.
The country is bloody mad in more ways than one. It would be hilarious if it was a Monty Python sketch. It is the Chief Executive who should be sacked for wasting Council Tax payers money on such stupidity. It is misuse of Public Funds.
I'm the only person in a team of seven that doesn't have pronouns in my email signature. As a team, we email out to the same people all the time. Sometimes, people respond to me saying it's nice when I email them because I don't have the stupid pronoun thing.
its too funny isn't it. if i signed my name Richard, why would i add a pronoun. its bizarre. So, what does “he/him/his” mean in a signature? It means the person who sent you the message wants to be referred to as “he” or “him” when using pronouns. If you talk about something that the sender possesses, you would use the pronoun “his” to describe it. SERIOUSLY ITS TOO FUNNY. I am so so glad i am 73, disabled and on my way out of this madness. so what is a signature? a person's name written in a distinctive way as a form of identification in authorizing a cheque or document or concluding a letter. so why do you need to use pronouns? I sign my name Ricard Idiot, why would i need to add a pronoun to it lol. I don't know i am too old for this poop lol. SIGNING OFF CONFUSED AND BEFUDDLED LOL.
I was going to say take them to an industrial tribunal but he did and lost which is absolutely unbelievable. What kind of idiots run the tribunals, i bet they would have found in his favour if he was muslim. Wouldn't dare sack them over this.
My employer is pushing for this in our email signatures so it's only a matter of time. I'm prepared to put Mr. in front of my name and if people can't work out that I'm male from that then that's a them problem.
Mr Orwin should take this further if he can. What about human-rights judiciaries??? Surely he has a right to not indulge ideological groups if he doesn’t want to????
I absolutely refuse to engage with this nonsense. If challenged, I would ask if the person understood the difference between singular and plural - pointing out that my toddler knows the difference between 'one' and 'more than one' - and quote the Oxford dictionary, which defines both they and them as "used to refer to two or more people or things."
@MoonlightSonata214 they and them aren't only used as a singular, so don't do that. I'm just not prepared to call somebody 'non-binary' pronouns when they haven't sorted their noun out.
It was the other way around in this case wasn't it? He wasn't being allowed to use his words for a made - up pronoun, but he would have been allowed to use the pronoun they wanted him to.
For everybodies reference the following are pronouns who, what, why, where, when. If I get forced to play this ideologically fascist game then my pronouns will be Who and What.
I would have set my pronouns as "your Majesty/your Majesty". If they complained then I would state that yes, those really are my pronouns because I identify as a medieval king. If they insisted I not have those then I'd take them to the tribunal for discrimination and for making fun of my pronouns and how I identify.
So he gets sacked for giving his pronoun but if he lied and said he was a woman he would have been ok. Why do you need to state your pronoun I don’t and shouldn’t have control over what other people call me when I am not there
The world of work/education is completely stupid, so much time is spent with acquiring non-essential information that the purpose of going to work/school is totally wasted!
It's compelled speech and compelled belief. Employees should have the right to opt out of this nonsense.
Adult human male should be very relevant!
It means the he/him is natural, and uncontroversial.
Which excludes the ones for whom this isn’t true. Sucks for them, I suppose.
Because Adult human male/female is the reality for 95% of the population.
@@lynnm6413 being very normal and natural is very very controversial. Being sane and peaceful is a hate crime. Outrage culture, wokeism and Islamism is the new moral standard.
Funnily enough freedom from compelled speech is outlined by the ECHR.
If you can get people banned/cancelled/arrested/jailed for hurting your feelings, you are not the oppressed... you are the oppressor.
@@lynnm6413Adult human male/female is 100% of the population. Even with the negligible amount of intersex people. Their chromosomes dictate the sex they were born to be, if the development in the womb had gone according to plan.
Woke logic: We're so diverse and inclusive, we'll sack anyone who's not the same as us.
Also woke logic - gender is a social construct and social constructs are harmful and oppressive, so naturally we demand everyone adhere to our system of pronouns, which is demonstrably a social construct
So that's not inclusive is it , so they should sack themselves
you nailed it exactly.
All this "celebrating diversity" and "being inclusive" - seems to me an excuse for bullying. Not acceptable. It's more than word games it's psychological games .....messing with people's heads
They DON'T celebrate diversity though. It's racism and sexism writ large. ALL of it against one particular group.
The true face of Discrimination, Exclusion and Intolerance (DEI) should be broadcast far and wide!
Couldn't agree more. This pronoun rubbish is mandatory for the loony left and hilarious to the based Right. Oops. My political bias is showing.
Women were more than happy to jump on the 'rainbow' bandwagon just to dump all over heterosexual men only to have the 'trans' mob hijack it and now these same women want the men they dumped on to defend them from the very people they jumped onboard with. Ironic huh!
I think if the employees work has and is satisfactory they had no right to sack him I'm sorry he lost his case on a political harassment item which has nothing to do with his work. I think he is well out of that woke toxic workplace and hope he gets another job. It is appalling how many are being attracted due to this woke rubbish that has been allowed to take over so many places that should be caring for people as people not as some ideology that has our futures in danger while it is allowed to remain in place let's get hard headed and say no to this rubbish.
@@marychapman177 spot on!
Why are people being sacked over other people's delusional behaviour?
5th Generational Warfare.
Cause bulliying through kindness
We have to pretend now. Facts etc are no longer allowed.
In my opinion everybody should live their lifes how they want....as long as they don´t bother anybody, or try to involve others into their "own beliefs" all should be fine, that´s called "personal freedom"!
Social engineering on steroids
I can so identify with that council worker .
Not only because I was a council employed bus driver here on the Isle of Wight , but because I'm a "Adult Human Male" 😊
I hope he sues those DEI woke , gender benders for all they've got ❗
From what you're saying you sound quite childish, hardly demonstrating your humanity. And when it's that small can you really consider yourself male 😂
Can I identify as a West Indian bus driver and get a job despite the fact that I’m from Cheshire and can’t drive a bus 😂
Well done James for standing your ground, sorry that the system has failed you.
Totalitarianism is here and it's dressed up as kindness and caring.
With a siezure-triggering coloured wig and demon styled eye liner
So true
It is and it always was like this.
It's always dressed up as kindness and caring.
If you live in North Korea, you have to praise your leader, and behave as if he is the biggest saviour the world has ever seen.
Hitler had films made, about the concentration camps, telling the public how wonderful they were, and that the Jewish people were being treated kindly, and living in a wonderful environment, rather like holiday camps.
It's probably always been that way.
If evil poses as evil, they'd never get away with it.
@@diane4488 Makes you wonder how are people so stupid, isn't it?
This madness has to stop. It's beyond beyond.
@kevin982 - Monty Python comes to mind! 🤔
@@_Why_123 where's the fetus gonna gestate? a boX??
Notice how there's no mention of women pretending to be men?
@@secondchance6603 I've thought about that - . They aren't stronger than men not likely to assault them in anyway And to be a woman going into a man's space - you are likely to be genuine, or you wouldn't due to the above considerations the other way round
@@ordinarybreaddon’t you oppress me! 😂
I hope this worker intends to appeal. This really cannot be allowed to set a precedent.
He did appeal, and lost.
@@manchegocheese997That is terrible. We will have to shout out about this nonsense as a collective. I was told I didn’t have to put myself down as a Mrs or Miss so why force this shite upon anybody?
We need a law to back us up.
@manchegocheese997 No he hasn't appealed, this wasn't an appeal against an earlier employment tribunal result,
it was the employment tribunal itself.
The Governor of Arkansas in America has banned all that idiotic nonsense from all their Governing documents and letters in and out of offices. It’s a start.
fArRiGhT😅
Versus the fascism of policed pronouns@@oliverhug3
So. What do they put?
@@northernlady212 normal grammar that we all learnt at school as children.
Congratulations wonderful some minds are starting to loose the black woke cloud let's all countries states etc take this important step back to normalcy god bless 😊❤
I'm an adult human male & my wife is an adult human female the only 2 genders 😊
Don't you mean the only 2 sexes?
@woodlandlady7011 whatever you say bell end 🖕
@@woodlandlady7011 I think he means the only 2 genders/sexes.
Gender is a word I stopped using as I was told it could be anything you want(!) so I use sex as they can be only two sexes.
Ah but you forgot people who are BORN intersexed - people who are BORN expressing genitalia from BOTH sexes at birth. They do exist and they are a third gender and a third sex. Now because our society cannot accept such things, parents of the Intersexed person and the doctor attending the birth will operate on that person and decide, against the Intersexed person’s free will due to that person being a newborn, to ARBITRARILY CHOOSE the gender they think the Intersexed person should be. That is a decision the Intersexed individual should make on their own when they are old enough to make that free will decision themselves. It is, after all, their body that they were born with and they should have full control over their body. So you are completely in error to write that there are only two sexes and two genders. 😀
Having spenþ the first 40 years of my life in a sane country , the last couple of ddcades of complete and utter stupidity across the board in every institution from schools to government is getting very tiring .
Which country
It's not stupidity it's done on purpose to try and break the UK the shops are closing in favour of internet shopping office buildings emptying for AI technology these buildings will be turned into flats causing ghettos and slum areas the councils and government are working together it's TREASON against the British people
@@xgtwb6473 Why , Sealand of course ? !
@@georgerobartes2008 I don't think they would put up with this sh*t. They'd make you walk the plank 😀
@@johnnyshinnichi1785 😂😂
It's just yet another way narcissists bully ordinary people.
If an unfortunate person is born with one leg ,why should the world be bullied to limp ?
I dread to think what pronouns a disabled person would be expected to use.
@@manuellayburr382 Not sure what you're thinking here. Pronouns are based strictly on sex/gender; nothing to do with disabilities.
@@fretbuzz59 bollocks, these people are delusional and expect us to go along with it
@@fretbuzz59 If you think pronouns these days are based solely on gender, I'm afraid you are out of date.
@@manuellayburr382 Okay. So, pronouns such as ...
I'm glad I'm retired I could not go along with this madness
The council chief executive should have been sacked.
Anyone unsure about the definition of a woman should simply ask their mother.
Should not be allowed in any position of authority and as far away from children as possible.
It is absolutely bullying and there seems to be too many people who are influenced by bullies who use social media these days.
It's also an attack on personal privacy if you don't want to expose your preferred pronouns regardless of whether you're in favour of the ideology or not . (Signed, adult human female).
❤
Secondary school teacher of 12 years who lost his job after I questioned all the transgender assemblies senior leaders in our school were giving, trying their damn best to normalise it. Most students disagree. Most teachers disagree. No one says anything out of fear. My union rep said I was incredibly lucky I wasn't barred from working with under 19yo's as well as losing my job... just think about that for a minute... the stigma. THIS IS THE WORLD WE LIVE IN.
Adult human female here 2024
@@deirdreloughran8258 same here!
@@triciabaker8992 lovely to meet you ❤️
Haven't Councils got better things to do "LIKE LOOKING AFTER THE PEOPLE THEY WERE ELECTED BY"
I`ve despised Councils and their ways ever since my much older business partners wife, as a long serving Ealing London Council manager had to eventually tell off a black girl for constantly being late. She went to the diversity manager saying she didn`t like her managers attitude. Result, this loveliest of people was asked to take early retirement.
FFS it’s gone absolutely frigging mental. I can not stand all this woke shite.
It will back fire on them big time soon, when the only employees they have are the lazy thick ones that they bend over backwards for.
That’s utterly disgraceful. Doing the same with criminality. If you can be considered a victim those in charge are over the top in trying make you one, even if you actually are the bully.
Being late is unfair to other workers..
@@helendancelot Sure, but it`s also selfish and pig ignorant.
Sadly, we can't boycott a council - but we can send thousands of emails of complaint... so give us an address and let's do it! We have to make our views heard NOW!
I identify as a robot, imagine my guilt when I'm forced to lie and click on the box 'I am not a robot'
That’s awful. 😢 Such discrimination.
😂😂😂👍🇬🇧
Yet you are not forced to lie, you have the choice to tick the box or not and you choice to tick the box
@@LowlyEidolon but he is forced to lie because otherwise he will be locked out of so many things for no good reason
How can you be sacked for telling the truth? Clown world.
But surely someone is free to "identify" as an "adult human male"...?
It’s like living in Orwell’s 1984
Its actually scary
It is not "like"...we ARE !
Absolutely disgusting and disgraceful. The stupid law should be changed.
There is NO such law!
I don’t comply and I won’t comply ! It’s a bullying fascism ! I don’t cow tow to bullies !
Hmmm... working places should be places to 'work' , not to 'woke'.
The problem here is not just the pronouns. The problem is being forced to use them by directors and chief executives that no one vote for to run the council.
Members of the public in any given council area don’t get a choice of those at the top of the councils that make the decisions that cost the taxpayers money or how the council is run and by who.
They are not held accountable for their actions or idiotic ideas.
Throughout my life, I've been mis-named (Mike instead of Michael) and mis-nationalitied (English, Australian, South African or Scottish instead of Irish). I've never fired or cancelled anyone, in spite of such heinous behaviour.
If the words 'adult human male' can be seen as offensive, then anything can be seen as offensive, including existence.....
Your comment containts the word "male". I am offended. Is it still 999 to report hate crimes?
So you can make up any old rubbish and demand it be used as your pronouns, but as soon as you use the scientific term, you're sacked. Absolute madness.
Edit.. maybe we should all just go full throttle with the most ridiculous pronouns and watch society eat itself alive it would also take away the attention from these people that they so desperately crave because if everyone's special then no one is 😅😂
yes. this was my thought too. " play them at their own game" en masse
James Orwin, Shame on the tribunal. Upholding complete and utter nonsense.
Ah, but they had to decide if he had gone against what he was asked to do not if it made sense
Whilst I support trans people living their best lives, it stops when it comes to changing my use of the English language to nonsensical pronouns, to accommodate individual preferences. Language rules serve a purpose (to help each of us communicate with others) so those who expect every single person they meet to remember their chosen pronouns are deluded, at best. Most of us are too busy working, raising families, and endeavouring to survive in this crazy world.
The worker should claim unfair dismissal due to discrimination.
Lawsuit. Though the taxpayer will end up funding it - but in this case I think it's valid.
It's all a load of complete nonsense! For a woman in her fifties, no one; I mean, no one, will ever force me to refer to a single person by plural pronouns. I was taught grammar at school, and am not about to change now.
Completely agree.
We had a private consultancy company employed by our company, they emailed every manager in my department and the person sending the email had the pronoun identifiers printed after their name.
Every single person in my department ignored and didn’t answer the email.
When I started working in the civil service in 1993, I joined a campaign to be allowed to have email signatures, and signatures on letters that were completely gender neutral. We wanted to drop the Mr, Ms, Miss, Mrs in the signatures to avoid bias. We managed to do that and life became a bit easier, especially for women working in a male dominated area. But now, the signifiers are back in the form of pronouns. And they're not even accurate in some cases! The demand (or suggestion) to put pronouns on signatures is a modern day shibboleth, designed to see who is in agreement with the ideology and who is not. It's the very opposite of inclusive.
So you are partly to blame then? In what way is putting a word used for years as best practice in business (like Mr/Mrs) bias? So that decision was made to help the feminists who felt they were being discriminated against was it? You reap what you sow. All these changes of things that have been around decades don't necessarily mean they're better. They were included for a reason. And what does it matter whether someone wants to address themselves as Mr or Mrs? Not even all women are feminists are they? So that decision was made to placate a certain percentage (feminists) in our society who may be in a minority, just like these crazed gender benders are a minority in our society these days. But what is now happening especially in the public sector is the ideology is being forced down people's throats so they have to accept it or lose their jobs. It's a good thing that the people running our public services and business didn't have that attitude when you decided to support the feminists isn't it? Otherwise, trying to change it might have lost you your job.
I got a letter from the council signed Susan Penelope Smith. I don't know if it's a man or a woman. What should I do ?😎
@@jimosullivan1389 According to the Transgender mob you don't have to do anything because according to them there are no differences between a man and a woman. A man can be a woman and a woman can be a man. Therefore, as we all think, look and feel the same why do we need to know who one is writing to? For a small percentage of the world population (transgenders are probably less than 1% of the whole planet's population), so as to make these poor darlings feel inclusive when most of them (not all) voluntarily decide they want to be a different gender, hundreds of years of history and precedent have to be pushed aside by the rest of us. Utter tosh!!
I abhor the bastardisation of the English language which is what they are doing. No public office should ever use pronouns in any of their documentation.
So in the name of inclusion they exclude others hypocritical
It’s hypocritical craziness 😡
Its more in the name of inclusion, they dont want people taking the piss. If he had just put down his pronouns or even argued against putting any, he wouldn't have been fired or lost the the tribunal. Its because of the way hes gone about it, treating it like a joke, thats cause his problem.
@@branbroken are you for real 😳
@clivebonneywell6967 why wouldnt i be, he had clear choices. Agree and disclose his pronouns, disagree and resuse to disclose. He chose an option that showed he didnt take it seriously and indirectly invalidated others.
@@branbroken he stated what he is a male adult
Sounds like grounds for an unfair dismissal trial. Forget the tribunal.
Unfair dismissal claims, are heard at Tribunals.
I was asked at a medical centre my pronouns i answered normal man. It made my day to see the types that were offended😅
Normal means predictable and boring so
I hope the voters find out who was pushing this non-sense in the council and vote them out.
At my workplace, I've been sent more than one email over the past few years demanding I "complete" my "personal profile" on their Workspace app. As I feel my sexual orientation, religion, ethnicity, let alone my "preferred pronouns" have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the amount of work I can and am able to do on a shift, my personal profile *is* complete, thanks.
And guess why you havent been fired over it, because you are allowed to refuse to provide any information on your protected characteristics. It would be a different story if you went and filled it in with joke answers that shows you dont take it seriously. Thats why the guy they are discussing lost at tribunal.
@@branbroken Yes, exactly. I haven't done that because I've never felt the need to do that myself. But the demanding tone in the emails get rather annoying. I conveniently forget about receiving them having already filed them under 'B'. I'm not the only one who refuses to comply and it wouldn't bother me if I was.
@Psammead21 no, i get it. Im constantly getting requests from work to complete equality and diversity form too and i wont fill it in either and i wouldnt even if i was one of the criteria they are looking to meet diversity points on, its my private business. They don't need to know.
@@branbroken 100%
"adult human male" is not a joke, that is an assumption that it's some kind of joke he made.
it seems deadly serious to me.
it seems as clear a description as he could have given, considering the question had a range of answers, a range that is seemingly vast, and ever-expanding.
who made up the list?
is it an evolving list?
does it encompass people's good-faith efforts to expand the list to include them?
are they to be excluded?
Unfair dismissal case right there.
Take the individuals responsible to the cleaners, not the council, as the council will use taxpayers money to pay legal fees and any settlement
Seems like an unfair dismissal to me: hardly gross misconduct which is what you need to suspend and sack someone.
The only pronouns needed when talking to someone are "you", "I/me" and "we/us".
And the names of individuals 😸
Pronouns have been around since the English language came to be.
Surely has a claim to sue the council for unfair dismissal!
If the description was about himself how could they sack him for his own identity? That is exclusionary and undermining his identity.
Because adult human male is not a pronoun. If he had played ball and just put he/him thered not have been an issue, if he had refused to disclose pronouns on the email signature he may have been questioned on this and why he wasnt following policy however you generally have a protected right not to identify/disclose that information and if he was fired he would then have won the tribunal. What you can't do is what this guy did and turn it into a joke and invalidate others.
@@branbroken Who says it isn't? If you can make one up why isn't it acceptable to use this?
It is not a right... It's an imposition.
@@branbrokenI don't see what he put as a joke. He stated facts, leaving others to decide on the appropriate pronoun for someone described in that way.
@@daveofyorkshire301yes, what i wonder is, who made up the list of " acceptable " ones then?
@@CL-he4jz That's the trick, there is no list of acceptable ones, it's fluid and subjective to be weaponised whichever way you turn...
"We're inclusive. But we're not including you. Here's your P45 mate!"
How's that kinder, more caring UK working out for you all?😂
No, its were inclusive but wont accept you mocking others.
@@branbroken facts were stated. What is wrong with stating facts? Ok, so the question wasn't answered but only straight facts were given, nothing stupid or funny 🤷
it is an assumption that it was mockery.
you absolutely do NOT and cannot claim to know the intent.
it could easily be seen as an attempt to be clear, in an increasingly confusing situation.
maybe the person felt he might put " he/him" and somehow " get it wrong" and be vilified.
ie you are assuming trolling.
but language is for clarity.
people ARE confused over this.
you could assume mockery, but is there a chance that that assumption is wrong?
could absolute clarity, to the best of his ability, be the intention?
law rests on intention quite often.
@@CL-he4jz you absolutely can when putting 'XYchromosomeGuy/AdultHumanMale' as their pronouns
Compelling someone to refer to you a particular way in your absence smacks of fascism.
They say to ignore childish behaviour in children so I’m hoping if ignored enough it will all disappear,,,
Feelings have become more important than truth! More important than law and more important than common sense.
Can we call them weirdos
I think I understand the French Revolution now, and I have the unsettling feeling we are in the Western world and are heading for a repeat with this never-ending stupidity of the bureaucratic classes.!?
the vastness of the beaurocracy is growing and the useful idiocy abounds.
I have an eg or 10, one even being from the crown prosecution service, most people in " jobs" are not academically able, they do not question or interrogate orders using critical thought.
they are employed for this purpose.
It feels we are led by the Vogons
They are bonkers
This is utter rubbish,whoever sacked her,should be sacked.The council should be taken to court for unfair dismissal
What a TOTAL disgusting DISGRACE, the judge should also be dismissed, this madness has gone too far and this sets a completely unfair precedent as it defies reality and the public who do NOT want this pushed onto them! Appeal or take to a higher authority - maybe the court of so-called Human Rights will be more realistic?
ECHR details that compelled speech is an infringement of human rights, so if this guy had simply refused he would have won. But because he essentially trolled them, he won’t now win. This should be a warning to people. Simply refuse and elaborate, but don’t fire back and you will win. If you try to be clever you waive that.
Let's hope this serves as a warning to those unwillingly affected - it seems that it is a case of refusing then, but if pushed by management, do not elaborate and just repeat your refusal? It would be good to know how you get out of a position like this in writing. What exact phrase would suit in rejecting a pronoun email imposition 'offer' from a council or official body? ie;
(1) "Thank you but I do not use pro-nouns"? (2) "I believe in freedom of choice and do not use pronouns"? (3) "Thank you for the update, I do not wish to use pronouns personally"? An exact legal phrase agreeable to an appeal court would be good to know. Can a council however INSIST on you addressing colleagues by their prounoun, if given, and EVEN if you have stated your right and wish not to participate? This is important.
@garryokeefe1605 everyone uses pronouns, you cant avoid them. You can refuse to disclose your prefered pronouns, in which case anyone you interact with will infer them, so don't go being an arse if the pronouns you prefer are not used after refusing to disclose. You may not find disclosure of pronouns so silly if someone constantly usd one you dont identify as.
@@garryokeefe1605 I would take the ‘prefer not to say’ route. If it is included in your job application process, if it is included in applications for anything in the council itself I.e housing etc, you should be within your rights to simply say ‘no, I prefer not to say.’ Then, if pushed you are now being compelled.
@@branbroken Thanks Bran, but no one uses them in my office while I'm freelance anyway and don't do any major interfacoing with anyone. I haven''t had any dealings with such bodies for many years now or anyone who does, so its not for me and I'm not joining the nonsense. I come from a more sensible era and have a birth name which I find sufficient and I'm for staying with that.
The country is bloody mad in more ways than one. It would be hilarious if it was a Monty Python sketch. It is the Chief Executive who should be sacked for wasting Council Tax payers money on such stupidity. It is misuse of Public Funds.
I'm the only person in a team of seven that doesn't have pronouns in my email signature. As a team, we email out to the same people all the time. Sometimes, people respond to me saying it's nice when I email them because I don't have the stupid pronoun thing.
its too funny isn't it. if i signed my name Richard, why would i add a pronoun. its bizarre. So, what does “he/him/his” mean in a signature? It means the person who sent you the message wants to be referred to as “he” or “him” when using pronouns. If you talk about something that the sender possesses, you would use the pronoun “his” to describe it.
SERIOUSLY ITS TOO FUNNY. I am so so glad i am 73, disabled and on my way out of this madness. so what is a signature? a person's name written in a distinctive way as a form of identification in authorizing a cheque or document or concluding a letter. so why do you need to use pronouns? I sign my name Ricard Idiot, why would i need to add a pronoun to it lol. I don't know i am too old for this poop lol. SIGNING OFF CONFUSED AND BEFUDDLED LOL.
Pathetic woke council .
The more some people try to make things perfect, in their eyes, the more they blind themselves to the damage they do.
AMEN TO THAT.
Needs to appeal & if loses that go even higher as i have had to do myself
You’re not free without free speech. This is why it’s our 1st Amendment and the right to bear arms is 2nd.
They asked him a question then when he answered they said sorry wrong answer
I was going to say take them to an industrial tribunal but he did and lost which is absolutely unbelievable. What kind of idiots run the tribunals, i bet they would have found in his favour if he was muslim. Wouldn't dare sack them over this.
I am learning French so I identify as bilingual ........and wish to be adresed as Mr. and Monsieur ........
My employer is pushing for this in our email signatures so it's only a matter of time. I'm prepared to put Mr. in front of my name and if people can't work out that I'm male from that then that's a them problem.
Somebody seems to think keeping the adult population angry is a good idea.
For the love of God, what has this world come to...????
Of course, Council Workers are people who can't hold down a real job....This includes Council Bosses, clearly....🤔😳🙄🇬🇧
Ludicrous
TBH till this woke nonsense started I had no idea what the hell a pronoun was and could care less.
You obviously didn't pay attention in English class, then! 🙄😖🇬🇧
@@ladychatelaine697 OK, you got me there ;)
So you can use any pronoun as long as “they” agree with it ! Pathetic.
I always thought that bosses were meant to be the clever ones. It turns out I was wrong and in many cases they are the stupid ones.
Can't you just tell that Labour are back in power.
Mr Orwin should take this further if he can. What about human-rights judiciaries??? Surely he has a right to not indulge ideological groups if he doesn’t want to????
Absolutely makes no sense and is outrageous!
Country is screwed
A couple of times I've had emails from some they/thems from people who have very obvious male names. Makes no sense
I absolutely refuse to engage with this nonsense. If challenged, I would ask if the person understood the difference between singular and plural - pointing out that my toddler knows the difference between 'one' and 'more than one' - and quote the Oxford dictionary, which defines both they and them as "used to refer to two or more people or things."
@MoonlightSonata214 they and them aren't only used as a singular, so don't do that. I'm just not prepared to call somebody 'non-binary' pronouns when they haven't sorted their noun out.
@@Stringer13ell "they and them aren't only used as a singular"..... they and them are plurals and should NEVER be used as singular.
@@MoonlightSonata214 no you are wrong about that, you should stop saying it and try saying things that are true and accurate instead.
Imagine 1% telling the 99% how to conduct themselves...oh wait nvm
Can he be sacked if he hasn't previously been given verbal and written warnings. This is hardly gross misconduct.
So you are allowed to make up new words and say that's your pronouns. But can not use words the pronouns people want you to use
It was the other way around in this case wasn't it? He wasn't being allowed to use his words for a made - up pronoun, but he would have been allowed to use the pronoun they wanted him to.
My pronouns are novaks,phuk phizer..
@@garylovell6017 How dare they tell him that his pronouns are not pronouns. I thought the true joy of pronouns came from inventing your own
@@steveblundell7766 exactly. Mine change with my mood…so piss/off is very high up most of the times I get asked my pronouns 😇
The problem is he didn't make up a pro noun. He used a definition of a word that already exists. Not a creative bone in his body if you ask me 😂
For everybodies reference the following are pronouns
who,
what,
why,
where,
when.
If I get forced to play this ideologically fascist game then my pronouns will be Who and What.
There's a meme with "I identify as invisible. My pronouns are who/where?"
Flywheel h when.
My prefered gender pronoun is a mature, sane adult.
Not many of them about now far too much brainwashing going on
My pronouns are "F off" & you will obey them. My fav saying to anyone tying to use pronouns in conversation with me.
I would have set my pronouns as "your Majesty/your Majesty". If they complained then I would state that yes, those really are my pronouns because I identify as a medieval king. If they insisted I not have those then I'd take them to the tribunal for discrimination and for making fun of my pronouns and how I identify.
He needs to find a job somewhere sensible
I hope they take it to a tribunal
Should have used "Sir" and "Master".
1984 has arrived.
Ideological subversion !
So he gets sacked for giving his pronoun but if he lied and said he was a woman he would have been ok. Why do you need to state your pronoun I don’t and shouldn’t have control over what other people call me when I am not there
@@lucylane7397 So what is a pronoun ?
Employment tribunals and courts are turning out to be the worst places that support this gibberish.
The world of work/education is completely stupid, so much time is spent with acquiring non-essential information that the purpose of going to work/school is totally wasted!
We’re not defined only by gender and sex preferences it’s actually no one’s business - people can find me as they meet me
Thing is, you don't use pronouns when talking to that person that is wanting you to use them?
How is a delusional idea a law does the truthe not matter I am a human man