"I'm not afraid of the monster, I'm afraid of what happens after" - Mini Podcast w/
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- Опубликовано: 5 фев 2025
- Zizaran is joined by @nugiyen for a talk regarding the current state of Path of Exile 2.
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Nugi is right about crafting. If we're supposed to gamble craft, we need more wins on the low end.
It's so frustrating trying to just get movement speed on boots. Trasmute, nope, augment, nope, then I regal if its a decent pair, nope. Then I chuck them, there's nothing else I can do without wasting alts. If GGG doesn't want benchcrafts, then at least important mods, like movespeed, need to show up.
No we dont.... Unless your talking about buffing SSF
yup, either more wins or more currency to play with. Once i realised that i could, instead of gambling for that 1 or 2 stats i wanted with regal AND exalted orb (which i always had 0 off trying to make a decent item), i could just trade for an item with 6 stats i wanted for just the exalted orb. crafting became obsolete and my char became beast.
what you expect a god craft every craft LMAO, next you will be asking for class specific uniques
@@Musiclover-km4ko No one is asking for that. But when you craft and craft boots, and never get movement speed ever, it's pointless. I've never crafted a decent pair. I think I've managed to craft three good items, total. It's not crafting, its gambling, and at lower levels its pointless because there's such a huge mod pool, and so many are useless at low levels.
The loot part is so true. I was really interested in seeing "meaningful" gear drops and "interesting" slams. We instead get the exact same PoE1 weightings at the high end and are showered in loot drops to a point where it's back to "ID a billion items, slam a billion orbs, you might hit at some point" (quantity approach) instead of a "items are scarce, so are orbs, but every drop is going to be exciting and most likely meaningful to you" (the promised quality approach). Especialy the tiered items show how fucked mod weightings are. You are almost 100% guaranteed to get 2 accuracy rolls on every single weapon you ID/slam, because they somehow decided that there should be a total of 3 accuracy related mods on weapons now, same for thorns on armor pieces, or mana related rolls on non ES based bases.
And don't forget that you can basicaly throw away most boots because they don't have movement speed.
It definitely feels like a lot of the current systems directly contradict what they said in interviews. Maybe it means that they'll change it if their intentions aren't being clearly realized, but who knows
Hope they just ad ruthless as optional mod to chose like in POE1 (where like 1 % players chose to play Ruthless) and not force all to play 5 slower mode with no crafting.
@@brave1988brave I haven't identified a single pair of boots with max roll in movement speed. Been playing 200 hours, found one pair with 30 % speed.
The on death effects completely KILL the fun flow of the game. You just stand back and wait 5 seconds. Especially if you use spells that generate a lot of AOE you literally cannot see what the monster effects are doing.
Yeah, and for my melee...
I will never understand why we need to be limited to 1 portal or 6 portals for a boss if it resets when you die.
People will just wait until their character can steamroll the boss and research and spoil the fight for themselves before attempting it. Or just sell the keys...
It's just trash design.
based
On league start every single sane person is going to buy boss carries from people who played 60 hours straight and set up a boss farmer. This already happens in PoE1 with 6 portals because people have 400k DPS mapping builds and don't wanna waste 1-2 divines dying to Maven. In POE2 this is even worse, you're basically throwing away 2-3 days on a single portal of a boss if you die to it.
Speaking of 1 portal though, I'm maybe ok with 1 portal maps except there is no worse feeling in the game than failing the map then the game forcing you to run it again with nothing on it. Its like being laughed at.
Imagine if there was only hardcore mode.
Literally no one asked for this change. In fact, people were selling there rare maps and not attempting bosses in POE 1and they just made it worse.
I would be fine if towers stayed exactly as they are if they were always guarded by a map boss.
Or just make them a linear corridor of mobs that’s not too big, then a boss guarding the stairs
I was expecting an actual tower, like a circular room with mobs then u keep clearing circular rooms until u reach the top
"I can farm 2-3 breach fragmens a day." This is only possible with specific builds with very expensive budgets. I understand why you feel the need for a nerf for 0.1% of the playerbase. I have literally quit playing the game at lvl 93 with lightning crit merc 'cause it takes AGES FOR ME to farm anything. I clear t15-16 juiced maps in 5-10 minutes, it is STILL NOT ENOUGH. I have only done breach boss (once) so far. I have 8 days playtime, no, I cannot handle nerfs to drop rates for fragments.
Edit: it seems people are really having a hard time believing how most people are not able just engage with the end-game mechanics. I wish GGG kept track of how many people attempted/killed end-game bosses. Out of 1 million Early Access redemptions, how many people have even seen these bosses? I am betting my money on that it's not even 10,000 (1%). I am still scouring the map for my remaining 2 citadels I've yet to find. I mean I *was*. I gave up.
because ure not doing it right, if u stack towers and deli juice ur maps u get fk ton of splinters, I get 100-130 splinters on average PER MAP, just stack quantity and ull see 4-5 stacks of breach splinters, I don't know rarity meta is just boring af, feels exactly like poe1
I'm in ssf, I have zero points invested in breach tree. I have 2 of the bosses already I just don't want to run them and I am leveling a new build scrapping my 91 acolyte. I get 15-20 per map with zero investment just doing them on good layouts when they appear on atlas.
I have 40 simulacrum splinters after like 2 months of a casual gamers game time of 2 hours a day.
You get 20 breach fragments on low end from one breach in red maps with breach passives ( that's basically no real tower juicing map with a bad layout )
Yet another upvoted comments from people who are either just bullshitting or are not engaging with the game mechanic properly lol.
i wish 1 day streamer and content creators will understand that there 1 day of playing is my week of playing.
i think you guys dont want to nerf rarity , you want to nerf the amount of curency that drops in higher tier maps
which is still weird af to me , more curency = more crafting , exactly what gg wanted us to do
they will for sure balance the game to be balanced at all level guys, not like in a game with 300 active skills/300 support skills this will be impossible at all, we def didn't experience that with a decade old game that never had the top end balanced at any point of its life time, surely nerfing the top will make the people playing rolling slam have a better experience
One QoL i really wish they add is that when you hover over your equipped skills in the bottom right it shows your support gems. The gem menu in general is clumsy and annoying to navigate imo
It needs some work yeah but I feel they don't want to do too much with it in case they need to rework the system after EA feedback.
In the mean time, this tip might help you a little: if you right click a skill in your bottom right skill bar, it opens the skill menu and scrolls to that specific skill!
@Mordy. thats really cool i didnt know you could do that. Thanks!
I'd like to see the option to lock a character to SFF or Guild SFF in return for better drop rates. With how cheap you can get good gear any currency spent on crafting makes you feel like such a chump.
There are weapons with 400-600 pDPS going for 5 exalts, how is anyone supposed to craft their own gear without looking like a fool when the market is like this?
I get where you are coming from but honestly as an SSF player and what i saw most of SSF chat also reflect when this came up a few days ago in global 773. it will defeat the purpose of why most of us play SSF. we don't want easier loot we play it for the challenge of removing trade which usually trivializes the gear progression. Right now it just feels a bit worse because we lack several core mechanics in mapping that would help with crafting/gear acquisition. We should consider that each mechanic we are getting will have some kind of impact like catalysts,omens,rog crafting,etc. and they wanted baseline 10 mechanics.
you don't need to lock the character. Last Epoch implemented a system where an "ssf" item is marked and can never be traded. with this, you can move to trade but the items you found from ssf are locked.
It's an impossible equation with trade enabled. The market as a whole will always produce gear that is better than what you can craft except on the highest end if crafting is hard enough to dissuade a lot of people from interacting with the most complex / expensive forms of it.
A way to mitigate it would be to make crafted items untradable and only pure drops tradable but that would be a big step away from what POE has been historically.
10 minutes uber fight vs a boss that has 10 different oneshot mechanics, can and will stun, slow and freeze you, having a dodge roll that does almost nothing - this dude is out of his fucking mind...
Ive given up on crafting cause every time ive spent my currencies on crafting instead of trading, ive gotten left with terrible stuff.
Same. I stopped picking up rares because I have 5 mil gold. Nothing I pick up or craft sells so what’s the point?
@Thebuird I rerolled a few times, cause I'm bad at the game lol, but the first character I got to end game was a grenade merc and as soon as I got to end game my build completely fell off and was no longer fun, so I sold everything to the ingame vendors so I could have a better start on my next character. I'm to the point where I don't want to craft or gamble cause it's too expensive to gamble to get an upgrade, and crafting hasn't been helpful. Now I'm struggling to find a build guide to follow so I can learn the game and enjoy it better lol.
I have wasted so many exalts on yoloing while I level. You hardly get meaningful upgrades and are bassically forced into the wisper 20 people for 1 item market. I'm not impressed right now.
PoE2 endgame is like PoE1 endgame just without mobility, loot, 6 portals, and fun, and in exchange for that we get 20 minute long maps.
Why do you care if a map is 2 mins or 20 mins. It's purely psychological, it makes no difference.
@@Xerus35 thats just not how it works, when you take into account the 1 try approach.
@@Xerus35 because a lot of it is spent walking and not even fighting stuff because there is a rare right on the other side of you. and also variety in scenery
Feels like the endgame is the actual game were playtesting rn
@@livingforwhat2172 That can be easily solved with checkpoints, I'm not really even sure why they didn't put checkpoints into maps but I'm sure they will pretty quickly. As for terrain, map terrain has always felt rather dull and uninteresting because it's procedurally generated. Even small maps feel dull.They need to add big features to maps.
Peaple droping 10 divines a map, i want to see that.
You won't see it because it isn't true. He's making up drastically exaggerated numbers. I ran all day today in T15+ maps with 280% rarity and exalted all my maps for more rarity, full juice breach etc. and found zero divines. Even when almost every rare drops a unique item, you still don't get 10 divines per map.
doesnt happen mate, they are being clueless and spreading misinformation. Ssf elitists.
@@ejun251 Usualy when people say x divines per map they mean that much in value. not literal raw currency.
farmed 28 divines today with 300% rarity.. and im still nowhere near the big bois.
@@CyrilFrantzen what build?
when Johnatan talked about the 1000x multi, he said:
"for example 10x faster, 10x more damage, 2x more stuff on the ground 5xrarity of stuff gives you 1000x"
I cited from memory, feel free to correct me :D
most people wont care about the endgame experience of a char if they never get to the endgame because the leveling process for that char feels like shit
Leveling has been way more fun than end game for me
I’m already at 7 characters at 75+
EmpyrianGaming replied on Ghazzys video about rarity saying that its not 10 divines per map, its 10 divines per 25-30 hyper juiced maps. He said he's running t13-15 and getting 10 divines over 10 hours using the fastest build in the game.
Rarity feels fine for SSF with the game in its current state in my opinion.
No-lifers discussing how we should have limited ability to access the hardest bosses in the game is just laughable in its absurdity. One attempt on anything, regardless of tier of the content, is beyond elitist and unacceptable. GGG, right now, is under the illusion that this will be good for the game however, I’m telling you right now that this model is not sustainable, and the vast majority of players will never accept it. The moment they get one tapped by a big boss on their one attempt they’re gonna log the fuck out and login on another game.
regarding nnugi's Time to kill comment on ubers - you'll run into the issue where they're so massively overtuned that other than the tiniest fraction of players, nobody will ever be able to beat them because their ehp will be scaled so high that a top tier build will take minutes to kill it.
Yeah my garbage home brewed build was struggling with difficulty 2 Arbiter to the point where I dont even know if I want to try difficulty 3 until I can absolutely nuke his HP bar I cannot imagine what it would be like if they 10x'd his HP. These people forget those who don't follow a meta, don't look up information before experiencing something themselves, and don't have pools of currency.
That sounds more like an issue with some builds being stronger then others. The ceiling on the dps of builds needs to be closer to each other then it is currently. I think it's mostly a balancing issue (not trivial ofc). I do hope we can do endgame content with non-meta builds too.
When a monster drops loot it should be safe to loot - that would be a real easy to recognize indicator whether there is still something going on after death or not.
As it is now, after death effects are not only a "stupid filter" but also a "greed filter" which gets then heavily punished by loosing the loot, the map and loosing XP - if you are on HC of course you loose the character too.
Fighting modifiers, not monsters.
It is all brakes and hesitation. It doesn't feel good when the monster isn't designed specifically around an on-death mechanic. I don't mind an exploding puss-bag monster. I loathe the random mods making random stuff happen - especially on death - but in general the stuff needs to make more sense.
@@waylanddavick9459 totally agree - i get it though, that they don't want to have their content trivialised when every mechanic that can kill your character has a big blinking neon-sign on them - i get that. For now, it feels hasted and tacked together - i have hope and trust in GGG that they will refine these things and put the same love in these systems as in the presentation of the game.
I think my main gripe is with 3 things.
1. Unavoidable deaths. They gave us the dodge roll but they still add a bunch of abilities and dangers you can't see coming so the only reliable way to be safe is to play ranged and nuke everything before it can do anything.
2. Locking almost all of the major progression behind bosses with only one try and steep costs of entry. Ultimatum, Sanctum, progressively harder bosses. This will chill experimentation so, so much during regular leagues simply because most people don't have 500 hours a league to farm currency to maybe get strong enough that using these invitations doesn't feel like burning down your savings account.
3. The fact that it feels like they learned backwards in some major aspects. It feels like they wanted to dial everything back by 50 % but ended up nerfing it by 300 % and just went with it.
They wanted bosses harder and didn't like corpse runs, so they added the waypoint system that allowed them to reset the boss if you died. Fair. But then they also made it so dying in map DOESN'T reset the boss, it loses you the boss and anything else that was on the map and you still have to run the map so you need to waste one of your waystones on nothing. Then they made all of the atlas points locked behind bosses that are so hella expensive to lose.
So instead of just picking one of those things, which would've maybe been okay for a league, they added all three and now I don't feel like even trying the bosses because if I lose it means days of farming for another try.
Same goes for crafting - they felt crafting was too powerful, but instead of just changing a few things they took away almost everything and now the only way to craft top tier items is with crap tons of omens, all of the good ones being hella expensive again.
I'm sure they're going to fix all of this at some point, but right now it feels like they went way overboard with the difficulty in ways that all explicitly punish new or casual players. Experts can afford to run bosses multiple times but won't have to because they have the currency to get the DPS to one-shot them before that becomes an issue.
Casuals and beginners won't have the damage to beat bosses before they eventually mess up and don't roll when they should have, then they get clapped and lose more currency than their character is worth because their invitation goes poof.
just to add as a point with the punishment of dying: they made it so that in the entire first half of the game, even the Trials (which are the most likely thing to fail) completely redoable, and effectively teach newer players that rolling at things with really high damage can totally work as long as you're willing to learn the fight to effectively dodge everything and take no damage. Having come from Elden Ring and Dark Souls, and playing other ARPGs where you can do similarly, it feels strange to learn the entire game that way (brand new to PoE specifically) and then wonder why I wasnt leveling up and get back to my map because it didn't really tell me that I'd lose 15% xp on death to *certain* things and lose my map entirely. Suddenly making a character build that works cause of damage suddenly not work because you just lose everything on death absolutely sucks. Felt terrible to basically gamble like a 3rd of the exalts I had found just to buy a Barya for the 3rd ascendancy only to lose it and buy another, since none dropped for me for like 20 levels. Character skill points being tied to random drops off mobs just feels bad to me, especially when they made the first two ascendancy sets come from quests you're auto given and can repeat as many times as you like until you get them. On top of that, all the other skill points you get in campaign are similarly boss or quest tied, just not the last few points you actually need to get your build fully going.
I don't get why they let you redo everything at the beginning, but not at the endgame when losing things like currency and good drops really matters rather than just teaching you to build to be tanky early. I like figuring things out in games and all, but when the game is pointing me towards figuring out that I can just prevent damage by killing them faster, it feels strange to hard switch that later in mapping when mobs suddenly just dont die in one hit.
True. Another annoying thing that may be just a me thing are those chaos archers that shoot those purple chaos eggs that explode in a row.
When a bunch of stuff is going on on screen, those things just blend into the background and I can't see them until they go off and 1 tap me.
23:46 - i finally saw my first audience in ritual…. I was 23 points away from being able to DEFER it. Ive dropped 4 level 79-80 logbooks. 3 of them danning has mentioned ulroth in a certain zone so I went there and no spawn. Breach is easily farmable. Delerium is also a joke as I see 1-3 splinters a delerium. It should be atleast as common as breach with both needing 300 splinters.
45:04 - I still personally believe the best way to solve this is by doing what we said they should do with movement speed. Whereas item level increases so does base movement on boot. With item crafting as item level increases the bottom tier of mods should be unrollable. So you said it to where every 20 ilvl the bottom 10% of mods can’t be rolled on an item. Obviously, this would require fine-tuning with modifier such as additional gem level, and they could set it to where it removes the bottom 10% of weighted mods. This would make it so the trash mods that normally have a higher chance of rolling, are no longer in the model pool and can no longer be rolled breaking items. This would still cause item level 80 items to have 50% of the model pool they could potentially roll, meaning it still takes a lot of tries to get a really really good item but now you at least get a mediocre or usable item instead of absolute garbage nine out of 10 times.
Forgot time stamp - when it comes to bossing, I say this every time bossing comes up. They need to put a node on the atlas tree that when allocated, doesnt consume bossing materials (fragments, breachstone, etc.) and allows you to run the bosses as much as you want to learn them (and try and see if you have what it takes to beat a boss with higher difficulty) but you get no exp and no loot. This allows people to test their builds, learn fights, and potentially functions as the practice dummy since you can benchmark against a boss which has set stats and often ate the highest set stats in the game. Adding a way to always warm up or practice on a boss seems great.
The part where they are talking about getting 6 divs with only 250% rarity is 100% misinformation.
I have more rarity in both maps and char with 10 breaches and didn’t get a single divine.
How many tries?
@ I just now did another 10 breach map on decay with 300% rarity in the maps and 250% rarity on myself and I went away with 1 raw div.
About 80ex and a lot of nice rares. I could not even pick up 75% of the loot that was dropped.
Edit: yes I’m clearing breaches in each direction with herald tech.
you might not *want* them to be weaker but nerfs to us at the endgame WILL trickle down and feel worse to them since we have the tools to work around it while they dont
Increased rarity on gear just needs an complementing negative of decreased drop. So more chance for better drops, but lower amount of drops. So let’s say you get 40% increased rarity on your helmet, it could give 20-40% reduced droprate
I think an even bigger problem than ES/MoM being overtuned is the fact that evasion and armor kind just fuckin suck.. that being said, I won't be shocked to see MoM get gutted to 50% (or less) dmg redirect.. AND the effectiveness of ES passives on the tree get reduced by half (or worse).. with no changes to armor or evade.
Evasion is busted lol wdym
MoM isn't going to change. They probably need to nerf grim feast though. They also need to fix armor for sure.
i like the idea that life is a normalized in all builds and they can balance boss encounters based on expected life, right now es is just more life (especially since chaos damage doesn't by pass it anymore) so its not in the same category of defense as evasion and armour
I love nugi's point on fighting the mod rather than the monsters, I really want a major mob refinement where each model has a particular attack, or gimmick, I don't know something that makes me fear them, I loved playing the game during the campaign because I had to actually press buttons and mind what I was doing, it simply felt like PLAYING.
Just forget about balancing around trade, it's pointless. You can't balance SSF and trade at the same time, it's impossible and it's bad design philosophy to even try and nobody will be happy. The players that care about balance are playing SSF, so balance the game around SSF. Just let trade be unbalanced, it doesn't matter. Trade is a sandbox, that's what it is. You don't balance a sandbox.
I think the "filler" (empty) maps need a small chance for a random mechanic to encourage exploring it rather than just killing the rares and peacing out immediately. Just the chance for something will lead to more exploration of the map
I quit the moment I finished campaign and realized the stupid 1 death per map rule. How are players supposed to learn?
the whole map should be traversable in game, like you could go straight forward if you do not portal out, but, you "complete" a map if you do at least 1-3 special event in the map itself (like the campaign, the maps are huge, but it does not feel empty)
I tried crafting 10 times in a row, didn't get shit, and I've only traded since. I'm playing the opposite of SSF
"The ability to one-shot an uber should never ever ever ever ever be the case. [...] The notion of one-shotting an uber, even on soft-core, is something I reject. [...] It completely defeats the purpose of meaningful gameplay".
Agreed
Power-creep is such a legit and massive problem in the gaming sphere. Its so bad
I think scaling dmg reduction on bosses depending on how much dmg they get should become a thing. we know the game is able to calculate this in microseconds. but it can easily be set as something like below
-anything above 500k will get reduced by 50% anything that is left and goes above 760k dmg gets reduces by 75%, etc (numbers are of course arbitrary)
this still promotes getting more dmg but also promotes actually learning the fight and not building 0 defense glass canon characters.
bosses already have soft enrages with the arena filling up more and more so making an invincible character also is countered.
@@Raya.T the thing is something like this would be insanely hard to program when u have vastly different builds like spark hitting a billion small hits and CoF comet builds which do massive burst
@@Raya.T that's a terrible idea
@@gibson4648 It really is not considering we already have it implemented but harder in PoE1 with ubers.
I've been trying to do this 4th ascendancy trial and man... It is brutal. It feels crazy excessive just to ascend. I could see if it was maybe half as long and tuned down maybe 30% or so it could be a cool dynamic, but man it feels brutal to spend an hour going through just to get some bad RNG and get rekt and have to start all over again.
Whats your class and build?
@angelknives2843 I've got a lot of em and I think getting your 4th ascendancy is too arduous for all of them. Obviously some more than others. You shouldn't need an OP build to ascend IMO. Also just takes too long to complete for a rogue lite scenario that's needed to ascend with crippling RNG mixed in
don't know if you've done your 4th by now, since your comment was seven days ago, but if you were doing Sekhemas (which is also what I tried twice and failed, it's brutal) you can instead do a couple of runs on Trial of Chaos, gotta beat 3 ten rounders to unlock the Trialmaster. Killing him gives you your 4th set of points as well. I was on a stormweaver Spark Sorceress and was getting my Honor chunked in Sekhemas, went and did one of the Chaos trials, cleared it to 10 rounds and end boss dropped a Victorious Fate, went to my hideout and literally traded some Exalts for the other two Fate things I needed to open the door to the Trialmaster. (dont remember their names, but theres three on the currency exchange. Buy whichever two you didnt get to drop) Walked back into the trial and opened the door, blasted him down. Much, much easier imo to not worry about Honor. Hope this helps anyone who sees!
Edit: Also, I agree with getting ascendancy being really tough for a lot of builds, and before getting some of your ascendancy points its like you really can't build well, so its frustrating to really need a set of points and then have to do something exponentially harder than the normal gameplay to unlock your core features. I like the roguelike style but having all 4 floors of Sekhemas being attached to each other, and you need to do them all in order to actually get your last set, just feels like ass. I'd much rather have 4 separate Baryas, one for each floor, and then maybe they add a few extra rooms to each floor so they're standalone. Would be much more enticing to get a quick "roguelike" run in in the middle of running maps, rather than dumping an entire hour or more on 3 floors and then dying halfway into the 4th, wasting your time.
My problem with the drowning orbs is that they feel disproportionately more punishing for melee. My first character was a witch and the orbs were certainly scary but overall fine. My second character was a monk and by the time I reached the drowned city campaign map, my weapon was in need of an upgrade so damage wasn't great. And those orbs felt just so incredibly punishing. Basically whenever an orb was around I had to kite that orb until it was gone and afterwards use the short window till the next orb to try to kill the orb-casting mob. And it was infinitely worse once there were two of those or the orb caster was a rare.
i like the idea that affix 1 3 and 5 are more deterministic
45:00 Nugi is saying the same thing in 13 different ways
Interesting what Nugi said about affix weightings. I allways felt in PoE1 that i got better gear in the campaign than in the first few map tiers, like i would usually (and im slow af) wear ilvl 40 stuff in mid tier maps still because rares in low tier maps generally rolled worse than in campaign.
Tho i gotta say, if they move power away from items to gems and passive tree, they should do this carefully, because i like that items give so much power compared to PoE1
Agreed. Ivr been trained to kill a rare and either run away or wait 3 seconds
why are we not suppose to 1 shot uber when uber can one shot us even on a well geared character?
1:07:00
There is an indication that you're approaching a citadel. You'll start seeing houses/tents/temples on the map tied to that specific Citadel, growing in quantity the more you approach it.
No, lol, those appear literally an inch away from the citadel itself.
@@Hekk. Not always. Can't remember who, but I saw a youtuber that had a trail of them that was around half a screen long.
Wouldn't be surprised if it is some sort of bug related to the map generation.
When he does a no hit run in sanctum I take his 2min Uber fight seriously 😂
"we are fighting modifiers not monsters"
is probably the best description of the biggest desgin failure of poe 2
300 hours remain, dude looks exhausted... Take care of yourself man.
Rarity - If you want to take away rarity, then basic maps will drop the same as high tier maps. Because rarity in PoE2 and quantity in PoE1 are the same thing and there hasn't been any answer as to how the game should function without rarity. With out rarity or quantity in each game then you have a hole in an avenue to increase progression.
Crafting - I don't see a difference between PoE1 and PoE 2 crafting. PoE1 is gambling with 100 orbs on 1 base. PoE2 is gambling with 100 bases. Bases are easier to come by in PoE2 because they have a lot less investment in them and they are the most common and easy to find. So they both gambling both kind of suck for Dad gamer like me. I'm glad there is gambling vendor that kind of gives you the easiest way to upgrade. Krip in a Farm-Cast or podcast said he just vendored everything and gambled from vendors.
Nugi is 100% correct about difficulty being overrewarded in poe1 (and 2 atm). There should be diminishing, not exponential, returns on difficulty. T17s have been very bad for poe1's loot distribution, and poe2 is extremely bad about this as well, with a very exponential curve on reward to difficulty. This is particularly bad when progression systems are entirely locked behind late game, difficult bosses, because it just exacerbates the exponential nature of reward to difficulty.
Im sorry but for me most of the streamers are just inhaling immense ammounts of copium because the game is their moneymaker, most of the game is trash, it starts on them making the game having 5% the depth and freedom of PoE 1 and ends with the horrible balance and going back and actually breaking stuff they already had fixed in PoE 1, the game is a F'in disaster and most of these streamers completely lost any semblance of credibility they had.
Btw, i wanna see Johnathan doing some interviews now, he was so smug talking about hitting every little detail right and shittalking other companys and then release this to the public, it´s ridiculous, and dont even start with the EA bullshit, they have been making arpgs for over 15 years and are backed by Tencent, if it was any other company doing this they would be under heavy fire non stop.
And im saying this as someone who have been supporting GGG for over 12 years, but they completely F'd up with this one.
I love a lot of Nugi's takes. I especially agree about his take on difficulty and rewards and and that you dont need to keep pushing the ceiling. I would way prefer the game to allow for a lot of decently optimized builds to all be fun and end game viable than for only the few best builds to be fully end game viable. If that means that end game isnt as hard I would be very okay with that. Just my take though I know a lot of folks take the "elitist" approach and want everything as hard as possible which is also a fine take just not mine.
Makes totally sense of everything discussed related to currency. I have 2 level 80, both played up to Tier 10 maps, 1 Level 50 and one level 51, so imagine the time I have played, and guess what, I only have received 1 Divine. The one and only divine I ever found. In maps, I might get an exalt, every 2-3 maps. Like wtf is going on??? And I see others dropping 2-3 divines per map. Well, they really need to do something. I can't lower my stats since the game is so unforgiving, just to add rarity of items found. With almost everything balanced in terms of stats, and still can't cap my ress. I am mostly at around 60% each ress, and around 30% chaos. How do I even fix that??? Thanks for the content shared with us, both of you! Keep up the good work! P.S. And please forward this to GGG: rework the amount of mobs that have after death effects! I don't die to encounters itself, compared to how many times I die after I actually killed the mobs/bosses!
"Fighting the modifier, not the monster" is such a perfect explanation of why i hate POE 1 and now 2. It drives me INSANEEE that I'm fighting what is usually a white skeleton that gets 1 shot, but is now some insanely juiced, 5000% movement speed 5000% attack speed juicer. It isn't intuitive, it isn't fun, it isn't exciting. It's just rolling your face on the keyboard in a MonsterStats.json file.
If a monster is meant to be scary, it needs to be DESIGNED to be scary. It needs to be a gigantic gorilla with a huge pillar as a weapon, just like in POE2. But now we're going to get white mobs that punch you which do more dmg than giant gorilla with a huge pillar as a weapon.
1:03:30 wonder how we'll treat maps if in the future there will be divination cards tied to certain map types and you don't have juices on them like breaches and delirium :D :D
When it comes to crafting I think you should have full control over the modifiers you add to the gear. The limiting factor should be getting the drops to add those mods, not just slamming them endlessly hoping to hit the lottery.
I have a full-time job, sometimes I don't have time to play all week. Most of my friends and I play solo, and team up once in a while - and we are all over the place level and progress wise. Something like the Circle of Fortune in LE, where we can still play together, but we get individual loot and can't trade it would be GREAT. All the upside of party play, none of the downside of SSF, and I can actually get more loot to craft with, since I find it fun but can't spend 8 hours a day farming. Please.
I understand that GGG is heavily influenced by Diablo 2, but you have put in so many new systems in PoE 1 that it is obvious that you can do more and better than that. I don't want to go back 25 years in time and have that level of scarcity of drops. That worked back then because we were young, we had too much time and too little to spend it on, and there were almost no other good games to play. Don't make PoE 2 into Ruthless with better graphics, I beg you.
I think if they remove the Effect of Rarity on Currency, there needs to be more Currency dropped generally if the crafting system stays as it is. I dont like hesitating about rolling maps and trying crafts just because of the sacrifice it is
I think nyugin hit the nail on the head with the modifiers. Monster modifiers are bad and it feels more like you're fighting mods, not fighting monsters.
I also think they should change the way towers work. Instead of beating the tower to unlock it and then using a tablet, you should be able to use a tablet, say a ritual tablet, and that'll change a certain amount of nodes like it does now, and as you complete those map nodes it powers up the tower for you to challenge, and at the top is a boss for that mechanic.
to fight a boss multiple minutes you first of all need alot more recovery on the skilltree. its really rough for some builds
Plz turn game audio off recording this kind of podcasts. I cant listen this during PoE play.
I really want rares to be marked on the map from the beginning, I legit want to close the game (and do in most cases) if I miss a rare at the start of a long map and I'm forced to walk all the way back as a warrior, it's such a slog for no reason
You're not forced, log out and join the map from the portal.
I wish towers were where we found bosses, imagine every tower is an act boss that gives giga loot, i would be down.
Nugi's weighting idea is interesting and not fully articulated. Shifting the weighting 100% needs to happen, and a good way to do that might be higher tier rolls of a stat has lower weighting compared to the middle tiers of it. Hell could even have weightings shift within stat itself, rather than technically the avg shifting when new tier of a stat is up.
Both Essences and Omens are far to rare for to be essentially entry crafting as currency usage prior to those is not even so much crafting.
Everything is crazy except melee and the whole warrior class, horribly unbalanced it’s more like alpha than “early access” in that context.
It is an alpha, just a different name.
@@izaruburs9389 early access is NOT an alpha
@owlmostdead9492 Define 'alpha' then. Can't wait.
@@izaruburs9389 An alpha means unstable state of the product it goes: development -> alpha -> beta i.e. "early access" -> full release. In an alpha classes could get completely removed, the complete direction of the game itself could change in an alpha, that's not going to happen in POE2.
@owlmostdead9492 So since it's not going to happen in PoE2, nothing is in an Alpha state? So your original statement was false, got it.
GGG has already mentioned that they are willing to completely rework entire systems at this point, most notably the atlas and major reworks/changes to ascendancies. 70% of classes aren't even done yet, 50% of the campaign is missing. Sounds more like an alpha state based on your definition.
10+ divines per map is total cope, I got 300 rarity and you dont find even a divine per map even with 10 breaches in a map and clearing massive amounts with spark
Yep they're misinformed af
This is like 5 days old and now him and ghazzy has already said ya its not as bad as they thought i dunno why this is coming out now just kinda spreading misinfo.
It's because people remember the outliers, the more dramatic moments. So you'll remember the time you got nothing, you'll remember the time you got all the stuff, but all the times that were average just don't stand out. And, of course, the content creators will put that moment when they get 5+ divines from a map in their content, and the title and thumbnail, because it is what will get them views.
Now, how many you happen to get one map doesn't really matter. What does is how one build can get more relevant mob kills per time period (more kills, more drops) and what the average drop rate is when compared across a statistically relevant sample size.
@@quincestopher8892its almost like its a long form video that needed to be edited down and then saved and uploaded which takes time to do.
But hey guess they should throw out the whole video just cause one part was outdated information.
@DarkBiCin they could've also edited that bit out and still can cause RUclips let's you go in and cut a chunk out, but you do you 😉
Ziz buddy. You playing poe 2 and autopiloting on Nugi was so disrespectful.
Half of the time your contribution to the conversation was almost like you are not in the mood for this conversation.
Cheers to Nugi his take on poe 2 is spot on.
"With essences you guarantee a mod" - well not true, say you want to craft a phys weapon, torment guarantees a phys modifier, which can be phys % or flat or it can be leech or thorns. And even if you're lucky and land % phys, I have yet to witness a higher tier than T2 (throwing all torments on white bases). The weighting for higher tiers seems crazy off...
Hard disagree on the trade changes.
Trade should be in game. It's 2024, not 2001. It's absolutely mindboggling that the trade part of the game is gated behind using outside tools, such as the trade site. Give us an actual Auction House. "But muh economy!" people will cry, but that will settle as supply and demand sorts it out. Pricefixing would be eliminated. There are no actual negatives with an ingame AH, apart from letting everyone actually use trade.
I want games to be fun. Fun is -not- spending 15 minutes trying to buy random stuff from the trade site, as no one replies. It's such an asinine decision to keep it out of the game still, it shows GGG are hard stuck in the past and will make the same mistakes with PoE2 as they did in PoE1. Make Games Fun Again.
nugi is like "whatever power fantasy you have i don't care" cool whatever gameplay fantasy you have i don't care, i'm glad the team isn't making the game this guy wants
I suggest you remove the ingame sound from these talks so your filter alerts don't mess with people listening to this while mapping themselves
The rune drop rate felt that it was made to be destroyed. So much rune drops and very limited use at the moment.
loving the new pod eps, plz silence the background noise, specially when the build constantly hisses with fire and ffffFFffff all the time , thanks ^^
The problem with hard denying the ability to ever 1 shot ubers is it really comes down to game design trade offs. I think you guys dont remotely comprehend the power gap between the top 0.1% of players and the 95%. Due to exponential power scaling with gear and levels etc a build with multiple mirrors put into it may be 10 or even 100 times more powerful than a build with a more reasonable but still high budget of say, 50 divines. And almost no players will ever even reach the 50 divine level.
So you are put into a situation where you have 3 choices: 1) Balance ubers around the multi mirror builds and expect that 99.9% of players will never be able to even scratch an itch on their backs. 2) Allow 1 shots at the most extreme end (current case) 3) Design the game to have a much flatter power curve. (Much less fun in many players opinions, much closer to the current D4 situation where your characters realistic power level is attained much easier and quite quickly because the last 10% of gear upgrades that are a lot harder to achieve only offer a corresponding 10% of power.)
6 divines is an insane outlier for 3 breaches, I run 350% rarity and on average I get 0.5 divines a map, talking about outliers is just crazy. I have gotten 2 divines just once from a map.
I think my solution for the modifiers is similar to Nugiyen, maybe even the same just his explanation was a little disjointed. For gear found during campaign, items level 60ish and under, but scaled to be more impactful at lower level. The avaliable mods should be tailored to the more beneficial ones. Light radius shouldn't even be avaliable on gear lower than level 30 in my opinion. The mod table already is limited by item level to lower tiers so a level 30 item will never be useful to a high level character since it's max life roll possible is something like 50-60.
Once you start getting into higher teir gear for high level players entering endgame, that's where you dilute the pool with trash modifiers.
A +4 minion sceptre, will only be possible on sceptres that CAN roll life on kill or light radius. But a sceptre that can only roll +1 minion, can't roll the trash mods.
This would give everyone a more balanced and even starting point for maps. Every piece of gear would be acceptable for your level, but will be replaced by end game gear time.
Retention is high, i think, because people are just rerolling to touch the archetypes for later
The thing is, the retention isnt even high, it´s actually shit considering all the hype, the advertising (wich PoE 1 never had, was all mouth to mouth), and the release being on holydays where people are at home.
I honestly wouldn't expect retention to be high regardless. An issue I've always had with PoE is that it promises freedom... but that is a lie. Your starting class is over here, the node you want is way over there. Then there's horribly balanced stuff, so it feels very unsatisfying to play X, when Y is just way better. And then there's things that want specific uniques to be viable... PoE2 has all those same issues, and ascendancies are yet another thing that seems like it would be cool if combined with X, but X is on the opposite side of the stupid tree.
Now, game play wise, during act 1-3 x2, I think there are a few bosses that need a bit of balance tweaking, but mostly, it is just a learning curve. Like Act 1 was hard for me on my first character, but now I can breeze through it by taking a select few abilities (my fav being Flame Wall + Ember Fusillade), without needing a single node to support the suckers (beyond the int needed to upgrade the nodes).
Don't get me wrong. I'm having fun. But there's so much potential there that just isn't being delivered on. And that will take a toll.
39:20 lmao, was he referring to stampede with those sound effects?
In regards to crafting I feel like a big thing that feels particularly bad with no rolling for just 1 good line with Alt spam or any more deterministic methods that ultimately may harm the viability of some skills being played really at any point if it's too cosmic to make work.
We have a lot of stable builds developed over time in PoE1 that have clear caps and clear pathways to attain, P.Conc, TR/CA, various poison builds that have a consistent cost of materials/currency attached to them to generate more currency to go for those more esoteric mod combos or hard to craft stuff where RNG does play a huge factor (think molten strike poison pf for deep delving) as of right now we have quite literally none of those decent methods and with Essences feeling worse and still being able to brick an item with 4/6 good mods feels like I've wasted my time building it up and wasted my resources, I'd rather horde for the ex/divs and just outright buy the piece I need rather than actually get into the crafting simplified as it may be from game to game.
PoE2 has a great game feel but a lot of the really in depth systems we spent hours/days/weeks/months and years learning just not existing in any real capacity feels particularly bad.
Hell I was really excited to get some cruddy gear via Rog and realized its just the gambling npc but with different colored gold and zero control. Gearing is actually fairly frustrating in that I (a life build ... enjoyer) that any piece that isnt on a armor/evasion and I don't hit life I just can not use it.
I do not think any given item should be a guarantee, but 2-3 usable mods that carves a reasonable path to upgrade your gear as you play with trash currency would hardly be considered overpowered.
the problem is 10 mins isnt bad for a first time ... but 10 mins 5000 attempts because you actually need to grind them unlike dark souls is insane
I think that every 20 or so maps you do T10 or higher you should get access to the pinnacle boss in a nice comfy fight. The rewards will suck but the object of this would be to allow entry to the fight to get players used to the mechanics and feeling of bossing. You need that Maven style content to flow indefinably so that people can build muscle memory for the harder version because they and myself included one do a one button build in maps. One attempt isn't good enough Ziz because you might just pop the boss and not know anything about it when you have to face it again but it has ten times more hp and damage and also more phases.
How does one go about fixing resistances if you are not trading? I will say this as well I love the game ( early access ) but when it comes to getting defense for gear it has been irritating
If drops were a bit more focused, if crafting was a bit more crafting and a bit less gambling, if you could take out or overwrite a socket's contents, all of that would make it easier for you to get better pieces of gear without trading.
The issue currently is that, really, trading should be what you do to optimize your gear, but you should be self-finding a decent base. But instead, trading is seen as the way to go. Too much variety, too little control over the drops and crafting. You're better off buying an item with the stats you want than trying to self-obtain it. It's just far cheaper. And this is then further compounded by certain uniques being build defining, without a less effective but easier to obtain lower quality version.
So when they say item should have 2/3 mods does that count life and resist? because they are mandatory on boot you also needs ms so like you only get items with life and resist basically
I have a citadel literally at the starting area 💀
A normal person with okay gear doing a boss in 10 minutes and uber gear doing the fight in 2 minutes is not reasonable. SImply based on the fact with how gear in general works. There is more than 5x better scale than those two setups. In terms of currency its more like 500x or more. If you want a person to take 2 minutes in uber gear to fight a boss than most people simply won't be able to do that boss -at all-. That is the reality.
mf is fine as is, anyone can run it, it drops throughout the campaign and is easy to add onto any build unless super minmaxing for push, if min maxing for push that's a different char this is d2 core play a bosser and a farmer nothing wrong with that. the real issue is the feeling that it's mandatory, the "crafting" system is a gamba system again nothing wrong with that IF GAMBA CURRENCY DROPS ENOUGH TO USE, the base drop rates without mf is the problem you need a map to have 100-150 mf to feel good and when running mf 80-100 feels like what the base drop rates for everything should be.
I think people are overblowing rarity, it has a GINORMOUS dimishing return rate, its true that up to 100 its great, but after that? nah
definitely blowing rarity out of proportion, it is good but the things that make you drop all those divs is juicing quant on maps
Funny enough, I'm 91, 205k kills, over 220hours. Running 100+ rarity and charm. Still waiting on first raw divine drop. I've gotten 3 annuls and also 0 perfect jewellers.
Really sad about the current state but confident GGG will push it back into the right direction. I want COMBAT. POE1 for silly clear shit. POE2 for more individual good combat. Maybe I'm just wrong.
The only thing about towers that I wish they would change is maybe (and i know this would be overpowered) the higher level map you use to unlock the tower they more range the tower effects. Yes that would be too powerful. So maybe at least the higher level map you put in it, they larger of a range it reveals. At least something so you arn't just throwing a tier 1 map in it, running it in 60 seconds, annoyed you even have to spend that long, and move on.
I want to be able to one shot bosses as I want to be able to tank most "one shot" abilities. That's What I call being able to personalize my experience and play the character I want to build.
Please just make it possible for me to use a mouse on console. I don’t even need to use a damn keyboard but being able to click around and migrate my inventory with a mouse would be a game changer. Right now using a controller for inventory management is infuriatingly slow.
Maybe make res on passive tree better or apear in small amounts on more nodes so u dont have to rely on getting it on gear as much freeing up space for more build diversity. Centering the entire game around resisting isnt that fun.
While I think Nugi makes some interesting points, I do also think that he is leaning too hard into the "then we are back to POE1" argument -- lots of things like speed of content, aren't mutually exclusive to poe1 but can simply be good principles of design, that most people agree on, regardless of how PoE1 did it or not. So I think its healthy to at least take a step back and evaluate it less on if PoE1 did it -- and more on if its actually good or not. Because lots of things PoE1 did were very good and liked -- but we have an opportunity to try and add different things here, where it makes sense to add different things -- not just because they are different for the sake of being different.
es isnt to strong, you sacrifice defense for it (its an armor value) + heavy skill invest.
the problem is more that you cant invest very well in health and armor. life + armor needs a buff, yes
ggg has the potential to make a vvery big mistake the coming weeks by shoving this issue into patch notes. this isnt a poe1 audience, this is a mainstream audience. this needs a message from GGG itself (rarity/balancing), tiktok isnt seeing this, my friends arent seeing this, theyre seeing global chat and discords. i dont think they can treat poe2 as poe1, there is no goodwill yet
I like listening to these farm cast podcasts ... however the issue is there are soooo many good points being made but you cannot possibly expect GGG to watch these in long form. All of these need to be summarized into bullet form (or a bingo card) and posted somewhere GGG can quickly digest the feedback.
don't know what they are talking about blink - faster casting speeds up the end animation of it
I hate trading. I like that I can get items but the process is tedious and disruptive. I want an auction house instead of constantly having to go back to town to trade. Need a AH and mailbox.
Honestly I just miss poe 1 even more now 😂
Poe 2 is good, but poe 1 is so perfected when it comes to end game and crafting and progression.
I just can’t wait for upcoming league
Resists aren't that bad at lower levels -- just swap out gear for bosses that need certain resists. I ran around with pretty much 0 in 2 resists for the first 4 acts and never had problems with normal mobs.