Is solodiving more risky? Reaction on last video
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- Опубликовано: 27 янв 2024
- Is solodiving more risky then diving with a buddy?
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hi achim,
I had a situation last saturday on a "normal" rebreather deco dive (35m), in the end nobody was physicly hurt, but I saw the first time that sometimes people are acting very unnormal not following trained procedures. So they mentaly blackout and made wronge decisions during a emergency Situation.
I totaly agree that finding the right dive partner is not easy and training emergency situations is something most people walk away from, and I am not talking about getting somebody out of the water, I am talking about forcing somebody in water to do the right decission and stop stressing. Had a few talks about that at boot2024 and it seems that in a certain situation, well trained divers lose their patients/focus eventhough they trained well and know how to act in certain situations.
So what I try to say, I see a dive Partner always as a backup brain, somebody who will stop you/overrule you at a certain point where you lost your focus. This starts with the normal theory about problems of gases like O2 hit/ N2 hit/ CO2 hit and ends up in something really deep in the mindset of humans.
I agree that 99% of the time you have a buddy where you share memories, but its not there for your safety.
On the other hand, if everything fucks up, you have at least somebody who could start the emergency chain and call for help, eventhough he cant help by himself. Which could safe your live as well. Bu he could also stress you more, eventhough you are calm and get you out of focus and this could get things much more worse if the none propblem diver panics, but its hand in hand what you explained having the same view/experiance for a dive.
Hope my thoughts are understanable^^
Greetings from vienna
Lukas
you are absolutely right i will not overright the benefit of a dive buddy.
Thanks for the video. No need to apologize you had a lot to take care of. I agree with you 100%. I am thinking about take a solo dive class.
You touched on my point towards the end. Most of your discussion focused on physical issues - i think a great buddy is mainly psychological support. If shit gets real at depth it’s good to have support (even if that support is to assist with navigation if you get lost) - or to perform deco stops with you if you end up with a deco obligation on a recreational dive (maybe bad planning or maybe an unforeseen situation?). My point is - stuff happens, issues arise, decisions need to be made & sometimes it’s comforting & safer to have a buddy with you to address those issues. Personally - i also love the comraderie of planning, experiencing & discussing dives with a buddy.
Love your videos - thank you. Greetings from Australia 🙏
Completely agree and feel much safer diving with a solo mentality - in terms of if I don’t feel comfortable to get myself out of a situation in the given environment I won’t dive it. If diving in a buddy pair I dive with the mentality (and planning) that if my buddy has a problem I need to be comfortable I can add value to the situation, but if I have a problem I must be able to get myself out of it. If my buddy can help that is a bonus rather than a reliance. I think the recreational rescue diver course can easily lead many into a false sense of actually being able to rescue an unconscious diver rather than just retrieve a body, and that is perhaps why people who have stopped their training at this point may take a negative view on solo diving. I might think differently if I had that ‘perfect dive partner’ you explain very well, but I’ve never met anyone who does. And maybe it’s my poor training, but I’m simply not convinced that if diving with a buddy of a similar skill leveI, that I or my buddy would truly be able to save a life if the other had an ‘incident’ that caused them to be incapacitated. The incident would have had to be very serious to lead to that state that no level of rescue is likely to save. I also think solo diving probably gets a bad rep from unequally skilled buddies which seems more commonplace in my experience- where one buddy feels very much reliant on their more experienced insta buddy and couldn’t comprehend diving without them, but gives no thought to the fact the more experienced diver is in effect diving alone but with baggage!
A lot of people are juuuust smart enough to realize they are too stupid to dive alone, which isn't the worst place to be. They know they're going to do something dumb and look for safety in numbers, because maybe just maybe Bob will notice and correct them before they do something dumb.
And in that situation, you are better to be by yourself! If you have a buddy that panics, they can kill both of you!
I totally agree with you. I treat all dives the same way. If I am teaching, guiding, diving with a buddy or by my self. I am planning to be able to sort out any issues I have and am there to help if I can. As a photographer I prefer to be diving by my self so I can focus on my dive. I do enjoy being at the dive site with others on the same dive but knowing they are all doing their own thing as well. This way we can chat after the dive. Call each other over to look at something cool if close together but there isn't an expectation that we are responsible for each other. If my buddy has their head buried into a camera for 10 mins filming an Octopus and I have an issue I need to be able to sort it out on my own.
I'm not a tech diver, but I have my sidemount certification and solodiver certification. Since thoses course I feel way more secure diving alone then before with buddy diving. I had a very good instructor and now I dive 10x more safer, solo or buddy. I'm now diving solo style/configuration/equipement everytime.
As a solo diver and self reliant dive instructor I have to say that although it is selfish by nature, I very much enjoy diving alone, but I plan my dives and equipment while maintaining situational awareness of my environment and it's hazards. Many times when diving in groups I have found that less experienced divers are happy to just assume I am looking out for them, or they are more likely to push themselves into situations they are not comfortable with because I am there.
If we were talking about training dives then pushing boundaries and comfort levels to some extent is fine because you are my only focus and there needs to be an application of the skills you are still learning. But recreationally speaking I do not want the responsibility or the stress of looking out for you, especially when that inexperienced diver is not as invested in their safety because they know I am an instructor.
Whenever I dive now for fun, I only dive with other divers that have the right equipment and training to do the dives I am doing, and we as a consequence spend copious amounts of time planning for what if scenarios prior to every single dive. We also check ourselves out first, but then perform buddy checks, and lastly we always plan as if we are diving alone so that ultimately our group is made up of two or more solo divers who just happen to be diving in proximity of each other.
I think it is always a spectrum. If you can as objectively as possible evaluate your own skills and qualities, those of the buddy and the risks of the dive then there will always be some dives that are weighted towards buddy being better option, some where it is neutral, or some where the buddy will add to the risk. Anyone can always come up with a scenario that the buddy could have helped with, but there are just as many scenarios you can come up with where the buddy creates harm. You have to weigh the probabilities.
Fully agree with your view, Achim. 25% of my 1500 dives are solo dives, mostly advanced sport diving, but also OC TMX and now increasingly CCR. I has a single incident, easily resoved by shutting down a valve and changing reg. On the contrary, I had quite a few experiences with incompetent buddies, like shutting down the wrong valve or even all, loosing buoyancy while trying to aid. I avoid dives with risks of entanglement. I am not generally advocating solo diving, one obviously needs to master all required skills and be meticulous in preparation, checks, and execution, so folks regularly jumping the boat having forgotten to connect their dry suit inflator are maybe not the best candidates. I do also like diving with partners, but for social reasons. I approach these dives just the same as solo dives and do not expect support. „Never dive alone“ had rational origins in times with single tanks and single regulators, where the buddy was your self-propelled redundant gas source. Over time, it has changed into a dogma in some organisations, lacking back by hard data. Every privat pilot can fly solo, and in case of a medical issue the crash into the next village has more severe consequences than a single diver staying down. Having said this, I was involved in a dive where one diver wouldn’t have survived without help. Later it turned out that he got in trouble due to a medication he stopped quite some days before, but wasn’t aware that the drug had a very long half time. So, based on experience I’d consider properly execute solo diving as reasonably safe, not withstanding, that there are rare cases where a buddy may save your butt, competence provided.
Well said Achim,
If something „minor“ goes wrong, a mindful and adequately trained solo diver is able to figure that out on his own.
Sure, a good buddy helps in those kinds of situations but if you desperately need your buddy to fix minor issues, you shouldn’t be (solo) diving in the first place and work on your skills, mentality, planning, check routines etc.
I totally agree that if anything (really) major goes wrong as you described, no buddy in the world can save you, at least not on more challenging dives.
For myself, doing quite a lot of solo diving in the „beginner“ technical range with quite long dpv tours, it is mandatory that every possible dive buddy for more challenging dives has his sh.. together. I’m in the very comfortable situation to be diving mostly with way more experienced (solo)divers than me, so this situation hardly ever happens, BUT:
If I’m not sure the person I’m supposed to dive with is fully „there“, I don’t do that dive with this person and go solo or suggest we do a little skill repetition or whatever instead. In this case, there’s no hard feelings or whatever and I explain why I don’t do the dive and who doesn’t understand that (luckily never happened to me) can f… off 🤷♂️
I think even if you found the perfect buddy (I’m pretty happy to say that I found at least one, if not more guys who meet most of the requirements you mentioned), there might still come a moment when everything (and I mean everything possible) goes to sh.. and additionally bad luck kicks in where you or your buddy has to decide whether there’s one dead diver or two of them.
I spoke to all my frequent buddies about this and we all agree that if necessary one dead is better than two … if anyone of us is capable of that in that very unlikely situation … we simply don’t know until the situation appears (which will hopefully be never) 🤷♂️
That’s the risk we all live with, doing what we do … if we were scared to do it and we wouldn’t rely on our skills, mentality etc. we would literally stay on the couch … that goes for buddy diving as well as solo diving
Personally I enjoy solo diving, and I agree that (with proper training, equipment, attitude, experience etc) you can solve most issues by yourself before they become a real problem. The only scenario where a buddy (even a same ocean diver type) could make a real difference for an experienced diver would be in case of a medical issue, for instance a heart attack. Maybe they mght not be able to actually rescue you, but at the verry least they can help the authorities to locate and recover your body for your family.
Obviously you need to determine if that is an acceptable risk for you and your loved ones.
In my opinion it is far more important to prevent stuff like that as much as possible; make sure to take care of your fitness. Go to the gym, stay active. There is more to risk mitigation than "just carry more gear" that people seem to focus on. Get the right equipment, the right training, the right experience, the right fitness and then, after all that, decide not to dive if you don't feel a 100%
I love solitude underwater. Don't have to take care of anyone. Look after anyone. Change dive plan because of anyone. I have to relay on myself only, which keeps me alert and attentive. I like to be little paranoid about all possible dangers I can think of. And once in the water just do what I gotta do to make it safe. Maybe a bit selfish, but I'm ok with it :D Thanks to time spent alone I can enjoy diving in team too.
Hi Achim, good to know you have been through this hard period. Take care
Great video Achim… Mr Schloffel. Sadly my wife doesn’t dive. So if and when I get a chance to go out myself (usually on an included charter boat at a resort we are staying at), I already know that… whom-so-ever I am partnered with, I’m most likely going to be doing my best to keep them as safe as I possibly can. There seems always to be someone who just completed an open water course a day or two before who is by themself. I explained it to my wife once as… I guess you’d say that I’m solo diving, with a partner. I doubt they’ll be able to help me, but I’ll do my best for them. Her first question was… “Isn’t that more dangerous than going by yourself?” Well, I had to admit, resource-wise she was probably right. When someone manages to suck their tank down to 400psi because they’re too excited/stressed or for whatever reason while I’m still at 1200… Well, I’m going run out of air really fast with them on my Octo. I did mitigate this once by handing over my 40cu “pony bottle” I carried to with me, which he then sucked down to just under 150psi (and sorry for the gripe, but didn’t pay for my refill… thanks buddy). I guess I always see myself as a solo diver, even though I’m almost always with, as the boat crew says, with my buddy for “safety”. (Sorry if that was a bit of a rant)
Great video agree 100%
A poorly skilled buddy is more dangerous than no buddy, and that I know for sure from lots of experience. As you alluded, tech divers dive in teams, to best ensure safety.
I wish you all the best, and to solve your problems rapidly👍
Everything fine, except doubles is not an independent system as long as they are manifolded. Only independent doubles is a valid independent system.
Wow super deep and accurately true
Many heart attacks and strokes don't mean you are unconscious it can simply mean you have loss of right or left side or chest pain that causes labored breathing. If you had a buddy, your chances of survival are greatly increased. Your main problem is that you're not capable of thinking clearly or performing certain tasks. It's not always a death sentence, and getting help at the surface can make a huge difference.
I don't disagree with your views on solo diving, but you did ask to comment about a partner helping in a medical emergency! A couple of years ago there was a diver in Tasmania that had something like a brain aneurysm at a deepish dive, 30-40m. Their dive buddy managed to get them back to the surface and to the boat, and the boat crew were able to give CPR and O2. The diver was eventually evacuated by helicopter. The incredible thing is that this diver survived without major health issues! Very unlikely to happen, but it does happen!
I really dislike having to dive with strangers. Someone you are paired with on a boat is not a real buddy; they are often at a different skill level and have a different risk profile. I am someone who doesn't have a permanent buddy to dive with. My most enjoyable dives have been solo (beach dives, in my case). Diving with a stranger is so stressful, and I often don't enjoy the dive. I will probably get a solo certification just so I can dive solo off boats and not have to be paired with a stranger.
Love the video! I agree with you on this for the most part.
My wife had an IPE @ 20 Meters once. She was moving erratically but unresponsive to hand signals. She passed out as I brought her slowly to the surface where she regained consciousness.
She ended up with mild DCS but by grace of God we still have her!
"Mild" DCS @ 20m???????? Something does not equate here..........."unresponsive' @ 20m from DCS?
@@phillipbuttolph9830 Sure enough, it's pretty rare but look into an Immersion Pulminary Edema
I think you are right.
In summary, the relative safety of diving with or without a buddy depends on your relative skill levels. I dive with a group that has a high skill level and we know we can take care of each other. We also know we can self rescue if required but we also really enjoy diving in each other's company. So for me I'd not want to solo dive.
How do you teach the gas switch? Is there no longer a team verification in ISE.
I like this controversial topic and I love solo diving myself. I also know this feeling very well turning around on a night solo dive for this big pike that might have touched my foot. 🙂
But to be serious I really know this tradeoff having a good buddy to protect againgst hazards vs a buddy actually being the hazard. My honest conviction is that the best case is a well known and trained buddy team oft 2. It´s efficient, safe and fun. I would never say solo diving is more safe than that. But truth is many times this is not realistic due to 1000 reasons.
Discussing where is the actual realistic benefit of such (proper) dive partner, I´d say provided a proper dive plan the most realistic scenario ist solving a problem, which you just don´t handle well enough in serious case like f... it up a bit. E.g. stage handling where the buddy just gives You a hand and is supporting Your own problem solving and of course all sorts of entanglement or losing a piece of equipment, not to forget bubble checking. I also think it´s not to underestimate the psychological factor having this supprt just if You need it when shit hits the fan and You have a bad day solving these issues. You can always argue You need to solve everething on Your own, but just asking what if ... the very old topic around solo competence.
But I definetly admit this tradeoff thoughts, identifying the limited problems where You really need a partner vs the hazards for both having an unadequate partner.
You didn´t mention the aspect of team bailout diving CCR though. On first view this seems benefitial under every aspect, regarding that no diver needs to consume bailout gas at all in general.
Had to hit like before watching- 99 likes bugged me!
solo diving is for solo diver. let's not try to change the opinion of people who buddy dive. They are gonna tell you no matter what that it 's dangerous.
I was a diving instructor for many years
If you have 100 dives , you must be able to look after yourself.
The cosept of instantbuddy is fff daungerous. Get a solodive course.
You will be more aware of your surrounding.
Don't put your life in another persons hands.
Visaversa. If your buddy had a serious problem, his lawyer will sort you out.
Yes. I agree. I feel safer with a buddy but it's cyclelogical . I am not actually safer I just think I am
Disclaimer: I'm by far not as experienced as you are so for me a buddy definitely makes sense even though I agree with most things you say. But just my thoughts on this: First, the explosiveness of this topic. My impression as a Padi/SSI diver myself is, that this part of the diving world for several reasons is mostly focused on indoctrination and behavior manipulation rather than educating people to make conscious decisions based on knowledge and planning. In this framework a buddy makes way more sense.
Second: even though I mostly think your arguments are generally valid and also I wouldn't want to try to talk you out of solo diving anyway I do think that even a 2% increase in safety is not too bad in a deadly environment. Meaning, just because someone isn't perfect, someone isn't as experienced, something is super unlikely. It still might all come together and you might live because of that. People also win the lottery ;)
Anyway, safe (solo) diving! Thank you for your videos.
Yea, and if you have a buddy that panics, you are in a very bad situation! It really depends upon your abilities and confidence. And proper well taken care of equipment! You should never run out of air. If something goes wrong with primary system, you have your back up and you go directly to the surface! Dive your abilities!
Not all solo divers are cave divers, all cave divers are solo divers.
I solo dive all the time. Why, finding a buddy with the same skill level not worth time missed diving.
Hallo Achim,
Danke für das Video.
Das ist KEIN KOMMENTAR, sondern Du hast ab 14'49" bis zum Ende (16'44") einfach nur einen schwarzen Screen.
Liebe Grüße aus dem Wuppertal >Lutz
Dear Achim, I ran out of gas. 70M dive
A few days a go I was in a diving trip in cold lake in Italy with water 8c I plan a depth at 70M with no plane. It was a bounce on a single tank with air I had a minor panic so my breathing rate rised a bit at 60M I was like Fuk it let me go to 70M. Went to 70m and my buddy was at 65M the narcosis was so hard it was the first time I ever felt it, tried to inflate my wing could not because I was overweighd so the air was being dumped out of the back valve it wasXdeep28 pounds I think. Luckily I had brought my dry suit so I ascended quickly with a TTS of 12 minutes. My computer showed I had a stop at 21 metres I did a deep stop at 42 meters for 3 minutes Later I ascended to 15M looked at my gage had no air at 15 metres with 6 minutes of deco left looked at my buddy dead in the eyes gave him the sign he was like seriously. Then we gas shared with 90Cm long hose. I could just ascended from 15 meters since I had like 15 bar left but did not want to risk decompression sickness. I hated my self and said to my self I am a worst diver. The bad thing is that I am a trained tech diver with 40 tech dives I have TDI extended range. But just wanted to share my story. I know it was very dumb. It was the stupidest thing I ever did. I am not used to dive in cold water. Back home the water temp is at 26C.
My friend, this is an example of people that need their certifications revoked. Even waking up that morning was a mistake. Bless any God you believe in and start tennis.
I really hope this is satire
Yes, this was stupid xD But I'm happy you are fine. Something to learn from big time
What else didn't happen that day?
trained tech diver : run out of air, overweight, not use to cold water, dry suit ? Consider collecting stamps instead.
Last solo diver i met was a dead cave diver.
I understand all the point and am pretty agree about it, but the only 1% chance that the day you'll faint for any reason, nobody will be there to block your regulator on your mouth, or if you faint with your regulator on, nobody will be there to maybe carry you, and nobody will be there to call the emergency.
Yes this is a rare situation, but that why I wont be solo diving after my 50, even more into a cave, and for now I don't see the point yet, maybe one day