The VOC was the only company in the history to achieve a megacorporation status. Large armies of mercenaries and a private fleet of warships, the power to imprison and execute convicts. Imagine a modern version of this, and you'll basically have your everyday 'evil' company in video-games.
There are other companies that were on the same level as the VOC, though not at exactly that time period. The Dutch West India Company (WIC) British East India Company (HEIC), and the Hudson's Bay Company ( HBC ). Each had their successes and failures. For example, the HBC at one time was the largest landowner on the planet, and was the de facto government for much of what became Canada. It also still exists, which is no longer true for most of the rest.
Companies with armies have not behaved less moral then kings or parlements with armies... you guys are idiots that you think you could do long distance trading in those days without weapons...
I'm Indonesian, and i think history about colonialism in our education was too one sided (cause it was one of the main source of our nationalism tough). Generally, they just taught us that 'our people was a good guy' and 'the dutch was a bad guy'. I think it had become a major problem here. And i just curious about what they taught in Netherland about this. I know that colonialism was a black history in western nations. My teacher who had studied in Netherland said that some of the university teachers there still have a stance that colonialism was good for Indonesian, they said the dutch brought 'modernization' here, etc. Personally i don't reject that, it was partially true that colonialism was 'good', but the suffering because of the massive exploitation both on our people and our land was very true too. I hope we can see history in a broader perspective. I believe nobody was 'all good' or 'all bad'. So, always open-minded, especially in history. -Sorry for my English
Hello. Dutch here and partly Indonesian. The Netherlands' educational system doesn't particularly focus on history. This country had it's heroes and villains. I think that the Indonesian lower class of the local kingdoms (Indonesia was very fractured when the Dutch arrived) were heavily exploited up until the end of the 19th century, while the Indonesian nobles, just like the Dutch upper class, made huge profits. In my eyes, the Netherlands didn't enforce any cultural or religious values, unlike other colonial powers. Political and military resistance was violently crushed though. After 1900 Indonesia became rapidly modernized and the social status of the middle and lower class made some improvements. When I first met some Indonesian people, who actually lived their whole lives in Indonesia, they acted like the Dutch enslaved their whole country for 400 years. Quite bizarre, it's not how my grandmother (who was a native Indonesian) remembers it. My uncle is currently working somewhere near Babo, West-Papoea. Anyway, good luck to you.
+Faraz DionAs a dutch history teacher i might be able to help you with your question. In history class we definatly teach about Indonesia on high school it was even one of the main themes for the exam pupils for a couple of years. I think like 20 years ago the story was'nt very balanced and kids were maybe taught a slightly idealised view on the past. Nowadays it seems pretty balanced with quite a lot attention on all the wrong doings that happened. As far as good and bad people go, you are definatly right on that. Every nation had its fair share of suffering(netherlands for example were occupied by the romans, spanish, French and germans and suffered from norse invaders). And there were also quite a few dutch people who went to Indonesia to educate and actually help people. That being said though, it was not right what the dutch in Indonesia did and i am glad most dutch realise that and are taught that in school. Sadly we havent learned and multinationals like Shell, just as the VOC in the past are still doing a lot of bad things in the world. What Shell is still doing in countries like Nigeria looks a lot like what the multinational profit driven VOC did back in the day.
Growing up in the 80's the History classes were focussed on the 2nd World War more then what happened after, some of the colonial past came to light, but it was all in passing. Things like slavery etc were mentioned as being bad things from the past. They did not go into detail about our colonial history, at least in the 80s.
Geen naam i'm glad to hear that. I hope indonesian and others country's history education become more better, multi perspective view is needed so the misunderstanding about history can be minimized.
I'm an Indonesian and throughout my years of education the name VOC was mentioned so many times yet I realised I had no idea what they really were. We were just told that they were really horrible and went to torture everyone. Never really understood the system whatsoever. Oh well. Thanks for this!
In the point of view of an Indonesian, as a kid we’ve grown up reading about the dutch, the VOC and their violences everyday in our textbooks. We know full well about the suffering that was bestowed upon our people. The dutch colonized our country for 350 years, and their violations of human rights were nothing minor. How easy it is to turn towards hatred and revenge the racism that were directed towards us. But truth is, ever since the independence, our people has maintaned a very good relationship with The Netherlands. Educational exchanges and trades have made the Netherlands one of our closest ally nowadays. We are not ignorant. This does not mean that we have simply forgotten all about the past. Hatred is a choice. As is present in history, when money comes in play, greed beats the common sense of every man. Europeans were the leading example of human intelligence and conscience at that era. They wrote great philosophical debates, build great monuments, invent incredible technologies, yet they were also the pioneers of colonialization and slavery. But for us, the idea of hating the current dutch people who have no hands on the occurences of 60 years ago is just stupid. This attends also the problem of world racism and discrimination nowadays. It’s the same as hating all Muslims because of a terror attack done by a certain number of them, or having prejudices for all germans because of what the Nazis have done in the past. We forgive but we do not forget. History is there to teach us a lesson; of human greed, of their foolishness. It is there so it can never be repeated. When we give way to hating, we are only starting the same mistake. It is up to us whether to forever live in the shadows of hatred or work together in harmony towards a better world.
ArmouredSpacePony Objectively speaking it is obvious that our country nowadays is physically worse than when we’re still part of the netherlands. It’s true that our people are horrible at maintaining the environment or even the architecture! But economically, even if we’re not as stable as we used to be, we are in such a better place now that we don’t have a monopolized colonialized economy system which gives no benefit whatsoever for our people and only aim to make us suffer and make them richer, we also don’t have people dying of nationalized massive forced labour, we are all equal now before the court- no race worthier than the other. If we stayed a part of the Netherlands, it’s true that perhaps, like a lot of countries now we might’ve learned how to better control our resources or even adopting a better european government system, but my people would never have learned and fought for the idea of freedom, or to identify ourselves as our own legacy, to be worthy of our freedom of speech and press that we fought for. Our independence and our liberation are the two most crucial part for the soul of my nation, so, for me, despite all the advantages and reasons? Is it still all worth it to be freer? Yes. yes. yes. always.
ArmouredSpacePony hmm I see that is one possible way. However, personally I don’t think my people would’ve been satisfied with it haha. Considering our incredibly contrasting cultures and traditions, we would’ve been more satisfied settling as an Indonesian rather than a dutch simply because we could identify ourselves with it more but there’s no denying that the netherlands has also played a part perhaps in our modernification
Hi Florencia Edgina, I agree with you .. as a kid I also grown up reading anything bad about dutch in our text book. I But now, after seen many historical videos in YT, also read many International books, and talk directly with Dutch Peoples, I began to see them as fellow humans, who can do many bad things but also good things. I also learn about a Christian democratic leader such as Abraham Kuyper (1837-1920) spoke about the ”ethical calling” (Ethical Policy) of the Dutch toward the East Indies, I believe there are many good Dutch like this, and also many bad Indonesian who only know to corrupt, since the day of VOC until now. But when we learn about history especially at school, we were told that every mistake happened because Dutch came here. I just want to say to all peoples like that, "If you can't swim, don't said its all because the waves". When I was in collage (in Indonesia), I took Agriculture & Economy programs, some of my lecturer learned in Wageningen U, Amsterdam U, VU U. Sometimes it's funny to think, that even after achieving independence, in term of agriculture education we still have to learn many things from the Dutch, but .. even today many kids in theirs classroom still learn the Dutch .. were evil Btw, our channel produces historical videos (using Indonesian languages & with CC), please check it if you have free time, Thank you 😇
The Dutch East India Company history teaches a valuable leasson: After the separation between the State and Religion, must occur other important separation: the State and the Market, the State and the Market Corporations. At same way the State must don't have religious leaders creatings laws and making actions in favor their faith, driving the whole society into a theocracy; the same State must don't have companies executives creatings laws and making actions in favor their corporations, bringing the society into the corporatocracy.
Fun facts: -The VOC has the first recorded use of shares. Needless to say, this method of determining ownership of a company has become very popular today, although back then it wasn't always easy to track down every shareholder. -The VOC is arguably the first multinational corporation in the world, depending on your definition of "corporation", since it was partially owned by the government (and partially by shareholders). -The legendary ghost ship, The Flying Dutchman, was a VOC ship. According to legend, it set sail on a moonless night right before Easter (despite being specifically ordered not to by superiors), and never arrived for it's scheduled stop at Kaap de Goede Hoop. Reported sightings of the ship aimlessly floating about sparked the stories of a ship cursed by the devil himself. -While the VOC is, as mentioned in the video, a trading corporation and pseudo-state, the WIC (West-Indische Compagnie) were little more than privateers employed by the government to hamper other nations' trade with their American colonies. By the way, John's pronunciation is hilarious if you actually speak Dutch. It's not even close.
The video forgets one important thing! The Dutch had a lot of windmills. They changed them into sawmills thanks to a great invention in that time. Thank to all those sawmills they could build a lot of ships really fast.
For anyone wondering thy the dutch hang the spanish flags there: Thats the ridderzaal (knighshall), the staten generaal(state general) hang the flags of captured or destroyed hostile ships (mainly spanish but also english and swedish)
I live in Brazil. Part of the country, for a short period, was taken in war by the Dutch, and held by the Dutch West India Company. We got lucky and received an awesome governor (prince John Maurice of Nassau) who invested in infrastructure, legislation and a banking system. That made the locals LOOOOOOOOVE him, but was SO expensive the Dutch W.I.Company "deported" him back to Europe. Funny thing is, believing every administrator would be like Maurice of Nassau, most if not EVERY SINGLE Brazilian student like to say that if we had being kept in Dutch hands and not Portuguese, we would now live in a perfect Paradiseland. Oh, naiveté! History is a lot about perception!
Edison Michael Don't count on it. As an Indonesian I can tell you that Dutch were the most vicious and greedy colonizers. We even still got the legacy of VOC corruption in our beureaucracy.
Akbar Muhammad "Dutch" What do you mean by that, the people who colonised Indonesia and enslaved the people or do you mean the Dutch peasents, the normal people who didnt have anything to do with the terrors which happend in Indonesia. Do you hate the Dutch today because a small fraction of their ancestors enslaved Indonesians. If you do u must know ur judging people on what nationality they got born with and have totally no control over.
What the Dutch did was indeed cruel. The Dutch have been assholes to Indonesians even after WOII. Akbar Muhammed is not trying to antagonize the Dutch of today, he's just angry at how it all went and rightly so. And he's just seeing that those actions of the past still have their effect today in society. It's not a "clear hatred" against the Dutch, it's just a statement that shows he doesn't tollerate that kind of cruelty. I think most of us can find themselves in such an ideology. No shame to know a little shame when appropriate. At least I don't feel offended by him reading his comments as a Dutch person.
One thing that I think is equally important for the grow of the Dutch is the fact that the bigger countries (England and France) were quite unstable at the time. The had a lot of intern turmoil so their focus was a lot more on that. This enabled the Dutch to go out and do their thing. Later when both the English and French stabilized, they quickly grew stronger than the Dutch.
The Dutch: A tiny tiny nation, attacked by the grandest empires the earth has ever seen, and always survived. Their circumstances bred extreme innovation and scientific exploration, and very small but strong army. Like a mouse with laser eyes, cause there are 6 tigers ready to pounce him.
The dutch, The german wannabe, Failed colonizer, Small country, Sick. San Marino, said to exist around 700A.D, A TINY FREAKING COUNTRY, LAZY, SITS ON A DUMB ROCK.
Squiddy Not a german wannabe, thats why theyre Dutch, not German. The Dutch defeated the Germans in combat every time. Successful colonizer. Cant argue with sheer facts.South Africa, Indonesia, New Amsterdam, Suriname, you name it. Hard working people, deserve their immortal place in history. You just buttmad, son.
Wow, I've been studying VOC and Dutch colonialism in Indonesia since 6th grade and only now I understand, 4,5 years later. I've been looking for good videos that discuss this for a while and I finally found it. Now I finally know both perspectives of the story. Thanks, John! Greetings from Jakarta.
Perfect lesson out of all this. That even when a company (or government for that matter) wants to try to do an honest thing (trading), absolute power makes corrupt... Absolutely. That is exactly what went wrong with VOC. That is why a company should not grow that big or have (government supported) monopoly status. For all the 'hating Dutch' going on right now. I will simply say this. There is nothing to be proud of for what happened by the hand of the VOC. But it happened and there is nothing that any Dutch person can change now 350+ years later. It was a different time, with different morals. And any country, company or government in that day and age that could control people, DID control people. And used the same violence. The Netherlands did not invent violence. When the VOC went bankrupt, the English took over... Now they did exactly the same thing, but because they didn't do it to the same countries as the Dutch, such as Indonesia, it doesn't make it any less worse. So to look at the Dutch for doing this, without taking in consideration that this was the way of the world and business in that era is simply closing your eyes to a unmistakable fact, that should be factured in. No Dutch citizen would find pride with our country if this was still going on now. Dutch people today have learned from this. Just like the Germans (more recent history) have learned a vital lesson as well from WW2. I should add that lots of countries other than Germany learned from WW2. I can't be angry with any German for what happened in WW2. He or she had most likely nothing to do with any of it. Same as that I (a Dutch person) cannot be called on what any of my ancestors did. If they even had a hand in any of this... Which I doubt very much, considering my heritage. Quite frankly if you look at the world history, there really isn't any country that hasn't commited crimes against humanity. THERE IS NONE! Don't mistake yourself in that. We are all making romantic portraits of the Greek and Roman Empires, yet I can assure you there was a great deal of slavery and atrocity there. (Yes white slaves, not all slaves were black. Slavery dates back long before the Dutch did, and Dutch people were also subject to slavery. They also did not invent slavery). Do I look at any Italian, or citizen of Rome or Greece today and blame them for it? No I don't, I can't... That would be racist. Looking at any Dutch person today and calling them 'slavers' or pointing them onto whatever the VOC did is racist. Asking me personaly to apologize for slavery because I am Dutch is racist. No one in my family even ever owned a slave. Slave owning was something only the 1% percent could do. And no one from my family ever belonged to that 1%. So I am not going to apologize for that... What I am going to do is take these sort of history lessons and make sure, that the people around me, and my countrymen, and my children will grow up to be moral and to treat people with respect, regardless of what their believes or the color of their skins are. Because I am not like this. I wasn't raised to think this is normal. I was raised to oppose atrocities such as what happened in the VOC era.
The English took over Indonesia and did such a bad job that Indonesia returned to the Netherlands as soon as dutch ships showed up. In South Africa the people moved away from the English to stay free. Even in the Carribians the people wanted the dutch far more than the English.
The golden age endend because England, French, Germany and some other countries attacked the Netherlands. In the Netherlands it is known as het rampjaar.
I'm Dutch, and this was very helpfull, because I have to do a school project themed to the Dutch VOC. I learned more of our own history in this video then I did in school and on Wikipedia...
The Netherlands actually got most of its richness form the Baltic Sea trade (Dutch cheese for Swedish/Baltic/German trees, to make more ships). But of course that isnt a really exciting story with death and adventure.
No, most of the Dutch riches came from the Indonesia, during the period 1870-1930. That was only possible because the VOC, abolished in 1799, acquired a foothold in Indonesia, which the Dutch state turned into an allround occupation during the nineteenth century. Different time, same story
Rhaegar Targaryen When they colonised several Caribbean islands, parts of North America, half of Brazil, Suriname, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, parts of India, as well as South Africa and parts of West Africa, this claim really doesn't sound that tenable.
But is still true. You should not think in exclusively economical terms. The Dutch did not need the Indian/Indonesian spice trade to get rich. The Netherlands were already a rich trading country because of the dominance in the Baltic and European trade. Getting into the spice trade was a matter of survival. The VOC started when the Dutch were in the 80years war for independence from Spain, as explained in the video. And the trade from the Americas and Indies provided the Spanish crown with a constant flow of riches that financed its wars. So the Dutch had to destroy the trade networks of the Spanish and Portuguese (who were also governed by the king of Spain) to avoid being crushed. Initially, the Dutch were trading the spices they bought in Lisbon throughout Europe. Only after the Spanish blocked this, the Dutch found the route to the Indies themselves (reducing the length of the voyage by a year), and destroyed the Portuguese trade posts.
apud harald exempt that war and trade are two ways to aquire reasorces they are correlated because of this but are exact opposites who happen to often coexist but logically if there is 100% trade then their is no need for war and visa versa
@@Rolgi you missunderstand, the reason why he named trade was because trade allways causes war, and war allways causes trade (not just weapons but all kinds of resources)
This is Brilliant! What an inspiring analysis on the VOC and relations between businesses and government and Asia-Europe intercourses. We go through those all the time in our present situations. Also great visual knowledge building and narration. Very good job! (Greetings from a Finnish historian doing business with government and private between Asia and Northern Europe. A lot of resemblances...) :)
Another important reason for the success of the VOC was their technological advantage. They had the best trading ship of the 17th century, the Fluyt. It could carry more cargo than other ships while being cheaper to build and needing less crew thus being cheaper to run.
It's really amazing that the Dutch are so often overlooked when discussing the rise of the West over the Rest. They perfected banking, invented the corporation (for better or worse... mostly worse) made revolutionary new innovations in trade that allowed them to punch far above their own weight. Their financial innovation is what allowed Britain to become a superpower by the 19th century, because Britain was real busy in the century before taking notes from them.
Never mind the British institutions based on Dutch ideas, or the shift from nutmeg to cotton. What made the British truly outclass the Dutch in the 19th century was Napoleon. If it hadn't been for Napoleon's takeover of the Netherlands, the Netherlands would have kept hold of South Africa, Ceylon, half of Guyana and significant chunks of the coast of India, all of which became British possessions thanks to the Napoleonic Wars.
***** Oh, please. Napoleon hadn't even started his military career back then, and I think you'll find that outside the US, not everybody considers the independence of the Thirteen Colonies a good thing.
Robert Faber Not everyone thinks the Thirteen Colonies were something off immediate attention to them either. Most people had better things, or more pressing matters, that needed attention. We only think of the American Revolution as significant because we have the benefit of hindsight. Back then, no one was sure if the USA would even survive in the short term, or were taking bets on how long it would be until it crashed and burned, and begging for the British to return.
VOC really made Indonesia suffer with their ruthless way of monopolizing spices, but then again they built interconnected roads and other infrastructures that we still uses today in the present time
"Oh and they ethnically cleansed these islands resulting in the suffering and death of entire populations BUT they monopolized nutmeg!" Dang, colonialism sucks.
Sunjay Hauntingston i dont understand the ethnic cleansing part, until this day it has always been our own ethnic groups that lived in indonesia. voc actian and the dutch government later hasnt been able to maintain any foreign ethnic communities that are present en masse and self sustainable. its a corporate action, not making colonies.
indonesiarayas2 Coen was there when that first fight happened between de VOC and the bandalese. And its unsure who first started it, but some of the VOC man got beheaded by the bandalese (and they apperently took the heads with them) and one of those men was admired by Coen. So the ethnically cleansing could've been revenge too.
Their was NO ethnic cleansing! The VOC were certainly no nice guys(!), but it was part of the Cleverness of their system that they KEPT the LOCAL SOCIAL infrastructure intact, which made them much more efficient compared to their English and Portugese counterparts.
You are a bit wrong in one thing. It was not the VOC that made The Republic of Seven United Netherlands rich, it was actually the wheat trade with the Baltic region. This wheat trade made it that the Duch got to use their own land for more profitable luxury goods like meat and butter. Even tobacco was grown.
+knuppelgast you are talking about the moeder negotie. this trade deal allowed the dutch to buy cheap weath from the baltics. thisallowed dutch farmers to focus on export. this was good for the dutch economy, and it made the dutch reliant on trade. this developement led to the founding of the voc which made the golden age possible.
If baltic trade was sufficient to enrich netherlands, why it took so long (3 century) and countless brutal wars for the dutch to leave indonesia? I know dutch was good in economy, half-world spice trade was not profitable than near baltic-trade. Our ancestor glad if europeans never came to Colonize indonesia. They should be stick out with those baltic trade between europeans, let venetian supply you with spices.
The VOC allowed the Dutch state to get a foothold in the Indonesian Archipelago. After turning the foothold into direct occupation in the eighteenth century, the Netherlands made even bigger profits from Indonesia than they ever had from the Baltic, especially during the period 1870-1930
Eddie Emilee Yea the east was the most interesting one. In history lessons at secondary school the West Indian company is really only discussed for dealing a financial blow to the Spanish by capturing a silverfleet while the war was at its peak, contributing to the Dutch victory (in combination with Spain waging war against the Dutch and the British at the same time). A bit of a shame since the West Indian company has done a lot more but just outshined by the achievements (horrors?) of the East Indian company. Not like the West was a bunch of friendly traders, but then again who was at that time?
Tiza Nasution Sorry for the late reaction (damned youtube system) to answer your question: The West did not do anything spacticular since they did what plenty of others were doing. The East pretty much controlled south east Asia for like 30 years or something, a lot more "impressive"
@BesteKanaal1 you're right, happens a lot in former African Colonies. Countries like France impose business deals and one sided trade agreements with threats of a coup, political and social agitation and bribes since they can't send ground troops anymore. Don't be surpirsed if you see an african president (serving a lifetime term) drapped in gold with an obviously suffering population. He might be officially head of state but he's actually middle management of Total or an other commodities group.
When an ad starts for Curiosity Stream's First Man and you skip it after 6 seconds: "50 Million Years ago, a new species appeared on earth--" "Hi! I'm John Green..."
i do have proof i have a history teacher and i watched this documentary: www.npo.nl/de-gouden-eeuw/01-01-2013/NPS_1208870 it's dutch so don't blame me but it's true.
As many americans, John has the confusion that "Free Market" and "Capitalism" are the same thing. Capitalism is just a system of investment of capital to produce more capital. In fact, the easiest way to ensure profit in this scheme is by forming monopolies. "Free Market" is a theoretical idea that markets "without intervention" are more efficient and are benefitial to society. (Of course, "intervention" in this case indicates "government intervention"). But the thing is that in capitalism, the guy with more capital can squash his competition and also, use violent means to enforce his rule (For example, exterminating or slaving populations in the other side of the world). So, in fact, markets "without intervention" almost always end in monopolies, so usually the government intervenes to break these monopolies, making the economy more efficient.
The main cause for the British to succeed the Dutch was the fact that the Dutch replaced the (catholic) English king with their own political leader, Stadtholder Willem III of Orange. The British still fondly remember this take over as their "Glorious Revolution (1688)" Although the initial take over was without any violence. To back up their peaceful takeover, the Dutch Willem III crossed the English Channel together with a modest force of 21,000 soldiers carried by a fleet of 53 warships + 400 transports. During the Battle of the Boyne in 1690, this Dutch peaceforce defeated the catholic king James II, consolidating Willem III's position as king of England and Scotland.
I'm Dutch and I tried to read the letter at 7:02 but it wasn't easy.. The grammar and Spelling back then was soooo much easier!! They just wrote it like you say it lol. Now it's a mess with a million rules no one can remember. Even Dutch people often make mistakes!
I am a lecturer in University of Indonesia and using this video to teach about Indonesia economic history. Thank you very much Crash Course. Keep making video that explains...
The Dutch were way more tolerant :: women had many right English women didn’t they could own businesses and land. They also were much kinder to their children.
nutmeg have " antiemetic " contents. It s perfect for sea/land explorers .. especially for seasickness. Mortality rate from ship crew and passenger significantly decrease. Spice = Gold that grow from tree. :D I wish Crash Course will make video for Srivijaya and Majapahit Empire History. 1. This two Empire control spice trade long before Islam and Western come. 2. Majapahit Empire was one from two civilization who can defeat ..wait for it ..The mongol raider :D 3. Prime minister Gajah Mada vision. The Palapa oath (literally : Spice oath) 4. The Red wedding between Young Majapahit Emperor Hayam Wuruk and Princess from Sunda Kingdom. Battle of Bubat. 5. ..You know nothing Jon snow. :D (spoiler alert) Peace and Love from Crash Course fan.
+bezzita 21 The Monsoon is coming .... wakakak The Sunda will never forget. :P I know little about the Battle of Bubat reference, here some ancient manuscript : Pararaton ( The Book of King ) Nagarakretagama ( The Virtue of State ??? cmiiw) Kidung Sunda (The Song of Sunda ) and Thanks to Sir Thomas Stamford Raffles for saving many Java archeology I think Palapa oath came as reaction of Mongol Threat and make spice trade more peacefully. It just like ASEAN today vs China in South China Sea dispute. It interesting facts that Majapahit did not monopolies spice trade, and let their vassal do they own religion and culture as result Islam can grow fast especially at important Port and harbor such as Aceh, Banten, Demak, Malaka, Gresik, Tuban and Surabaya.... this make Majapahit lost they Navy ability and resources. Archipelago state without navy just like fish without water but yet this failure continue till Sultan Agung of Mataram Islam. He did not learn from History. He blame his officer, demolish all his navy infrastructure and focus on religion teaching and misticm rather than upgrade navy technology after fail to capture Batavia twice at JP Coen era .
+rizal hernadi ... Naval Infrastructure and upgrade their technology were expensive. Your Sultan cannot afford it alone. In other hand VOC know the solution of this by selling stocks and obligation. (that's what john Green want to tell us). Sultan Agung represent of Government spending and The VOC represent of Private spending. ..and by the way..This VOC also introduce " Bubble economic" :D PS. I love one of Borobudur relief, its about Polynesian trimaran ship style. It's awesome. South East Asia people already go to Madagascar when Europe still belief the world is flat. :D
The Dutch East India company and Fannie Mae were both government backed businesses. Both straddled the line between a public and private companies. Ultimately these quasi government run monopolies proved to be less efficient than the competitive market leading to a crash.
_"I like capitalism. What I don't like are monopolies and violence, and those are both aspects of one of the first capitalist enterprises…. The VOC provides a chilling example of what has happened in the past when corporations become more powerful than states.”_ So let me get this straight, the Dutch Government creates a state-sanctioned monopoly company and confers upon it the enormous power to unilaterally declare war; a power/status the Government does not afford to _any_ competing Dutch interests. This _monopoly_ then, in the course of pursuing profits, eventually becomes responsible for several atrocious acts of aggression, murder, enslavement, and the like. Why exactly is this the fault of "capitalism?" It is only by way of the Dutch state’s authority and sanction that the VOC was able to even exist. The VOC's actions were clearly the unfortunate consequence of a state mandate. It’s not as if the VOC was some lawless band of renegades who coerced the state into legally sanctioning it. On the contrary, the VOC did not stand in any obvious violation of the Dutch state’s laws. Thus, the VOC (properly construed) was not some microcosm of capitalism per-se, as it wasn’t a state-independent entity to begin with. Granted, there are real problems with capitalism. For instance, while markets work fairly well most of the time, they often fail under a certain narrow range of circumstances. Moreover, when this happens it is often appropriate for the state to intervene. However, the VOC narrative is anything but an archetypal example of the "excesses of capitalism." Rather, it is a cautionary tale about how state interference in ordinary market activity can produce terrible (and often unintended) consequences. *Capitalism:* _”An economic and political system in which a country’s trade and industry are independently controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.”_ - Oxford English Dictionary
LaughingMan0X What you described does not contradict the definition of capitalism you gave. The VOC was controlled by private owners for profit, despite being granted its absurd status by the Dutch government. The conflict is with the idea of a free market, rather than with capitalism.
Falcrist There is a conflict. Consider capitalism’s “private and independent from the state” relation (included in the aforementioned definition), and, consider the exact nature of the powers granted to the VOC. To quote a source I'm not fond of on the extent the powers conferred on the VOC: _"[the VOC] possessed quasi-governmental powers, including the ability to wage war, imprison and execute convicts, negotiate treaties, strike its own coins, and establish colonies."_ No private non-governmental entity has such extensive legal powers. The only large complex organizations who possess this assemblage of characteristics falls squarely under the banner of “states.” Thus, insofar as the VOC was granted the powers it was granted, it was, in-effect, an extension of the Dutch state itself. Moreover, the aformentioned definition required a capitalistic system to be one involving economic activities between private individuals independent of state institutions. Since that was not the case here, it would follow that the VOC was not some microcosm of capitalism. However your point is well taken. In the minds of most people (and my own), the notion of capitalism usually presupposes an economic system in which private non-state actors (1) own the means of production, (2) produce the bulk of goods and services that are consumed within the system, and (3) insofar as private persons are engaged in sanctioned economic activity, their exchanges of goods and services can be characterized as _voluntary_ within the context of a particular set of property norms.
LaughingMan0X He wasn't saying the VOC was created by capitalism. Only ignorant people see that. You need to look outside of the box. His point is that modern capitalism is associated with allot of the same traits of the VOC. Namely monopolistic behaviours and the quest for super profits. he was essentially saying that firms created by modern capitalism act like the VOC, not that the VOC was a product of capitalism because (as he clearly pointed out), its not.
LaughingMan0X "“private and independent from the state” ... (included in the aforementioned definition)" That's *not* in the definition you gave. The requirement is that it be independently controlled, not that it be completely independent. It was privately controlled. As for your assertion that it's a state actor rather than a corporate entity... it's not going to fall neatly into a modern definition, because it's not a modern entity. You could make a solid argument either way. I don't really see that being a productive conversation, though.
Falcrist Exactly. the VOC was a government project, but was given the independent power to start wars, hold and execute prisoners and really, commit crimes against humanity. Furthermore id like to reiterate that the VOC was not a product of capitalism, it was an example of how horrific it can be when corporations have more power than the government. Which is reflected in the modern capitalist system, particularly in the US.
I see a lot of people discussing whether capitalism or communism is better in the comments, which really isn't the point of the video. The truth is economic systems are far more complicated then terms like "capitalism" and "communism". Both have variations, and few nations have ever been purely one or the other. The video dealt very specifically with what historically happens when a corporation ends up with far too much power (to the point of being authorized to wage war). That isn't an indictment on the very notion of capitalism, just an indictment on the idea of allowing corporations to do literally whatever the heck they want. I think even the most hardcore pro-capitalists should be able to admit that it's probably for the best if Wal Mart isn't permitted to openly conquer a 3rd world country and use it's inhabitants for slave labor.
Actually no, communism is pure equality, and capitalism is organized anarchy. Both never worked, as shown by sweat shops of the 1890's and starvation in pretty much 80 years since 1917.
But in the USA that is already pretty much the case. Large companies such as Lockheed Martin,Boeing, Raytheon, Northrop Grumman etc. finance their senators of choice and they do their masters' bidding by stoking the fires and provoking the masses to go to war, last time it was Iraq, now it's Iran.
sogghartha I think with Iran we need to ask why we didn't go to war with them 8 years ago even though Bush was moving in that direction. And the reason for that was that after what happened to Iraq, selling the American public on another preemptive war was outside the capability of even the wealthiest and most influential players. That might change in the long term, but the point is that the political system is more complicated then just who has the most money. If it was anything like the Dutch East India company. Then the oil companies and whoever else would profit from conquering Iran could just hire some military contractors and invade Iran directly without any interaction from the US government at all.
This is my favourite part of economics - the dutch and their revolutionary economic tools, it's just amazing how the right fiscal policies can lead to such a world dominance...it's mesmerizing!
IT IS NOW APRIL 2nd and I have not received my series finally blowout. I will miss John's presence in the series and I will continue to follow his stuff. NOW GIVE ME CLOSER.
I just was in Amsterdam like a week ago and visited the Rijksmuseum and saw the painting from 1:50 . Its so weird seeing it here again. Like my mind was blown.
Joost Babbels. It's normal to hate dutch. We have a strong reason for it. Give anythings what your ancestor stole from us back to us, then we will not hate you anymore ! 350 years your ancestor destroy Our kingdoms and raped our womens.
juna fakih oh please don't exaggerate that 350 years of conquering anymore. It just makes you stupid of history. Although it's true that we Indonesians may hate the Dutch, but don't make their history look even mightier than what they were supposed to be
The Netherlands, a tiny country that kicked ALMOST all powerful western nations asses at one point or an other in history, a nation with roughly the same number of people as some of the biggest city's in the world, yet always winning Olympic medals by the fleet, a tiny nation that has the tallest population in the world. A country where its earliest kings even defied emperor Nero. A tiny speck in Europe so important a smaller city in it has become the house of world law and justice. a country where the first enemy they beat was the sea it self making it a country who bested a force of nature itself........ oke im done smelling my own farts now XD
Portugal was also small but worldly powerful and important. Switzerland, half the population then of Holland but as historical and important. OK you may be right, Holland is the pioneer and historical world leader in so many ways, almost compatible with her giant neighbors.
Yes!! and the methods they followed are most disgusting! They are the most disgusting scum of all history! If you feel any pride in the conquests then you should also feel pride about what kind of a scum they were. Everyone always tries to put out the good they have done, but the bad stuff over shadows all the goodness. It’s been more than 70 years after independence of India. I’ve never lived in those times and I know very less of how it was like. But still I was never able find forgiveness for their wrong doings and I still hate Britain culture even to this day, if i ever visit there I won’t be seeing beautiful buildings, all see is money they have earned by killing men, raping women and starving young kids to death. That’s the trophy they have earned. Also, I don’t hate the current citizens they have nothing to do with it, but I hate their history.
@@harishsista6070 name 1 civilization that did not know war or conquest before the white people came and conquered them. That did not take from others at some point in history. Strife and conquest are human nature, we were just better at it. Even india used to be multiple countries befor great king ashoka united (conquered) the whole of india.
Also you should look at the war tactics they have used, they have only done what satan does in the Bible. I don’t feel proud about it, it’s just disgusting!
Very good summary, but it's missing some context. the VOC didn't start off in a vacuum, and that is somewhat indicated in your introduction, where you mention the 7 provinces becoming independent from Spain (by reference)l The Dutch were already very successful and the core trade was within Europe, where they were more successful than any other nation for the reasons you mentioned as well as because of innovation (e.g. the 'fluit' ship design), and that success was envied by other nations, and they resented their indepence and religion (protestant). The Dutch were under attack from all sides. That was also the reason for the Glorious Revolution / invasion and takeover by William IIII, who was instrumental in upgrading English financial infrastructure just to keep his wars against the Catholics going - and in doing so, gave the English the instruments to beat the Dutch at their own game, as it were. The VOC and the WIC were in the context of the Dutch attempts to retain their success and defend against their English, French and Spanish attackers, as well as for mere profits.
+CreeperHD minecraft,pokemon and more Yeah, a John Green Let's Play would be interesting. John actually has a channel where he plays video games, called "hankgames", but for some reason he plays games like GTA 5 and football/soccer games on it, rather than something turn based and strategic, like Civ 5, which would suit him way more. We can only hope. Btw, John's played Civ 5 before, so he's familiar with it already. Just hasn't done a Let's Play of it yet, sadly.
I must have took a half dozen different courses in history while in highschool, and none of then were ever as interesting as these history bites from CrashCourse
I think the VOC shows how powerful a relatively small group can be when they are tolerant of one another, especially relgion-wise, and set aside differences for the greater good. Unfortunately it also shows how easily power and greed can lead to corruption and the most atrocious deeds versus other human beings, who are not within your group.
Peter Timowreef You are conflating the religious toleration of the United Provinces with the areas administered by the VOC, where there was no religious toleration.
+Rick van den Berg ignore him, now we have no reason to hate dutch, u right it was a company not the real image of dutch people, u guys r so kind, in colonialism era dutch help build my homeland on north celebes, providing agricultural facility,military, church, etc, thankyou visit us sometimes
+josva pardede kind ? Ugh fuck ! What the hell are you talking about ? Do you mean raped some women in java island were kind ? Most of peoples in java island were slaves with tiny salary or may be they didnt pay them at all. Your ancestor didnt live in java island. If they did, it would be a different story
I`ve translated this video to Bahasa Indonesia, I hope that CrashCourse crew approve it. We Indonesian directly related to this subject. So it is important to know from CrashCourse interesting perspective. Thank you
Of course the VOC speaks to our imagination more, but like 75% of all profits were made by trade in the baltic sea. Which was refered to as 'moedernegotie' or mothertrade. There the dutch used politics and just making all kinds of companies too, one company was so powerful in Sweden I believe, that their king had to give his crown as a pledge for more debt. The irony is that just maybe the dutch would have been better of by just staying there and let other countries do all the expensive stuff like maintaining colonies
I'm Indonesian, it hurts to learn the history knowing the great Dutch renaissance of 17th century is based on my people slavery.. all because of nutmeg! DAMN IT!
Sumateran and Javanese are very lucky, we're never taking any wound to Greet the Dutch arrival, until Dutch are conquered by French on Napoleonic Era that forced my Ancestor for Build Long-Distance Road Anyer-Panarukan for Defense Facility against British, and started their slaveries system. :3 :)
considering that every communist nation is turning away towards capitalism (yes even North Korea's considering it) tells you just how hard it is to get rid of it; if getting rid of it is even a wise idea.
Yeah, North Korea actually has made limited trade between citizens legal kind of because capitalism always prevails in the most oppressive communist empires, so much so that North Korea has been forced to make it legal to prevent having to put such a large portion of the population in their jails/salve camps
Fabian Gonzalez-Cortes Only half true. The ultimate goal of communism is indeed a stateless society in which the means of production are equally shared among all people in the society--this they share with the anarchists. However, there needs to be an intermediate step in which a central authoritarian government must dismantle and then reconstruct capitalist society into the communist society; this is the point where communism and anarchism diverge. Indeed, one of the biggest problems in Marxist theory is that no mechanism for the dissolution of the revolutionary state was provided.
Fabian Gonzalez-Cortes in practice, it's defiantly not stateless. Most forms of communism try to approach a 'utopian society' that will not need a government: that utopia is stateless. However since communism normally uses or supports extremism or drastic change, such policies require a government. Anarchy is not Communism.
Not exactly easy to run a country in today world without trade, hard to trade with capitalists if your not one. Or if you'd prefer, its a lot easier to trade with capitalists if you are also capitalist.
A rich person said to me that he paid more in taxes then all of us poor.. And I mentioned that, That isnt how capitalism works.. It works on how much people BUY, not how much that pay in taxes.. 1000 poor people pay MORE for rent, utilities, Insurance, Toys, cars, Food...which drives the economy..Paying more in taxes, just means 1 person makes lots of money.. If the poor had 2 times as much money, they would pay more in bills, and spend more at the store, and shopping, and buy more cars.. The rich person, wouldnt spend much more..he MIGHT buy a bigger home, but that is 1 itam...not 1000's..
Ed ash Its actually true, sorry for my saying. The top 1% control 99.5% of the world's wealth. In the US they pay up to 50% in taxes. So yes, they most certainly do pay more taxes than the combined wealth of the work force. By a fuck ton.
Diana Peña its not that..Its the idea that 1 persons job is worth MORE, then another.. I can see small changes, but the differences are to great. There is 1 man, that works for 4 different banks.. Owns 1, CEO of another, Borad of directors at others.. This person makes more money then you/I and a million poor people in 1 day.. The problems are in trade. the biggest market in the World is trade and shipping. the Middle man jobs. the USA is a closed market for 1 reason. you HAVE TO go thru the usa distributors to market your goods. Example...DVD of an anime in Japan is about $5 USA..and the same DVD in the USA will cost you $50+... direct DISTRIBUTION, from the maker to the buyer, Stopped long ago..We used to get a fair discount by jumping past the meddle men.. not any more..NOW the net is here, and companies can do direct sales, but ARNT giving us the savings.. (this is a JOBS thing) how many jobs lost if the makers can go Direct to the buyer..
Starbattle64 Lets see...how to handle LOTS of money so you dont pay tax on it... If you want that info...look it up, there are many sites to give you info.. The Average Poor person pays 60-80% of his pay, in taxes. Be they direct or indirect taxes. You pay the transport fees, handling fees, you pay the Taxes Others working on your goods pay...you pay taxes on your BILLS, your RENT, Your Mortgage and any loan... Lets start with the 30% from your pay check, and go up from there.. Fuel taxes, francise fee taxes(look at your cable/phone/cell bill) Until recently there was a tax, from the Spanish/american war in the 1880's on all phone bills..(they forgot about it) and then after taking it off, added a NEW ONE..
Ed ash I wasn't talking by percentage. I mean the rich are genuinely worth more and are therefore paying more money in taxes. Not that I think its a good thing.
Starbattle64 'Worth has no meaning in how rich a person is, or how much money they pay in taxes.. Ever hear the words, "ON PAPER".. Adding up all the stuff a corp owns and placing the Value on 1 person?? Most of its tax deductible.. And if you think ahrd about it, his wages were made from money we paid, which MEANS we paid his taxes.. Or is it that because the Corp paid him, its a deduction to the corp... Or does he have his money shipped to another country, and declared Tax free, in the USA..
Because, who took the financial risk to create the workplace. Say you own a shoe store, you took the loan, you took the risk, you put your blood sweat and tears into. Now Tony the stock boy wants an equal cut from your business, Is this fair?
mbsalto because those problems cannot exist in vertical business model at all (sarcasm). It's easier to corrupt a few ppl with large amount of power than a large group of ppl who have the same amount of power. Bureaucracy: a system of government in which most of the important decisions are made by state officials rather than by elected representatives, this definition would fall more in with a traditional company with mangers and boards than with the workers self management or even them electing temporary managers. library.uniteddiversity.coop/Cooperatives/Worker_Participation_and_Productivity-Meta_Analysis.pdf disagrees on the ineffective
ShoutingCoffee Who are the people who do the service or create the goods? Whose labor is used to create capital? Who dose the owner profit from their work? Who takes the risk working their?
Illya Lypyak both systems have the same problem, yes. Now, if a group of workers form a cooperative and create a business, ofcourse they should get a share equal to each contribution. But if an investor or a group of them are which set up a business running, shouldnt them also get a benefit? The workers in this case, get a salary, they have no risk, if the business runs out of money they have social security(most of the nations of the world, exist some kind of social security), the investors in the other hand can loose everithing if a business goes wrong. I think both models can and should cooexist, and there are many cases where they work fine together.
The Portuguese empire didn't fail to control it. They were successful, a lot of fortresses were built to keep competition, like the Ottoman empire, away. It went in decline when Portugal formed an union with Spain and the Dutch arrived.
I think it's disturbing that a lot of people think that VOC is something to be proud of or even awesome. I mean, yes, people at that time think differently so what VOC did was 'normal' at the time. But it doesn't excuse the cruelty that it did to Indonesian people. Yes, perhaps if VOC did built infrastructures for Indonesia. But they built it for their own good and without having to pay the workforce or even also the materials. That was nothing Indonesians should be thankful for. And if VOC paid wages to the people working for them, they were far from sufficient. Of course you can be proud of your country and its achievements. It's natural. But please don't turn a blind eye to the casualties that in this case, the VOC had caused. It's not like you have to say sorry again and again to Indonesians--you were not the one at fault, true. But admit that the people of the past were cruel and inhumane. The VOC was cruel. That's the least you could do.
The Indonesian government killed ten times more Indonesians between 1945 and 1995 than the Dutch did from 1600 to 1963. doesn't mean we are innocent, we have done bad things, but they did much, much worse to their own population. Remember Soekarno? Remember Soeharto? Very nice people? Up to their knees in their victims blood! You want to look back 300 years but not 30? Do not ask your great great great grantfather but ask your mom and daddy!
+Dutch Man, you are referring to this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_killings_of_1965%E2%80%9366 ? I was surprised about how few Indonesians know this.
Yes, but among other events, When Soekarno started the liberation of Indonesia, he killed every opponent he could trace, publicly when possible and secretly if needed. With independancy Indonesia became a federation. But soon after Java took more and more control over the other islands. Every resistance to Soekarno was broken and many were killed to end the federation and start a central ruled state. Democracy ended in bloodshed all over the country. Many had to go into exile. After that the regime surpressed the population until Soeharto took over and the events you refer to occurred, When the end of the Soeharto regime was nearing, they didn;t go in peace and again they committed crimes against humanity, Sadly enough the Indonesian population payed a heavy price, time after time. Then add to this the take over of Papua. The take over of Timor. The killings of christians on the Molukkan islands The fight against Hindu population on Bali. The fight against the people of Borneo because they are not islamitic and the taking of their land for plantation of oilpalmtrees. The fight against the population of middle and south Sumatra for the same reasons. Do I have to give you more examples?
Sad to think that the only reason the dutch were ever strong was because we were the only country that accepted other religions and work together. With this we attracted the greatest thinkers of Europe like Descartes and the Pilgrims, founders of the USA who could not speak freely in their home country. And now we are just as intolerant as the rest of this world.
+KajiRider1997 actually the catholic Spanish were prossecuting everyone who wasnt catholic, thats why the protestant Dutch rebelled(also not wanting to be under Spanish rule). the protestant were open to all religions though.
Hi, I'm dutch and I'd like to that in the Netherlands, the VOC is still very iconic in the dutch culture. Most people don't know the bad things we did out there. That's a shame. Last year I read the famous book Max Havelaar from Multatuli. The reallife based story is in time after the VOC ruled in Indonesia. After the VOC was found bankrupt, the dutch government ruled to Indonesia in a cruel way. In the book Max Havelaar this is described in a very good way. It's worth reading although it's can be hard to read because of the old language used.
People kill for nutmeg, this amazes you ? Think about life in that time, what does your food today taste like, wonderful right ? Back in the day, Europe knew only salt. Meat was salt. Vegetables were salt, candy.. what candy. Cookies... what cookies. Sail across oceans and get introduced to Indonesian foods, of course they thought about how much they could earn back home when introducing those tastes. Where does the killing comes in ? Well if you are the only one selling it, you make a lot more then when everyone sells it. So kill off those who mess with your business. Barbaric ? What, you mean people in our time don't kill for money anymore ?
Not true Europe had spices just not the ones that came from other places they were so rich they wanted more and took it. Meat and salt was a staple but wasnt the only staple they had options. They made flavored oils with fish and other plants and vegetables, I'm sure the lower classes were content with what they had and were fine with getting more later on.
The VOC was the only company in the history to achieve a megacorporation status. Large armies of mercenaries and a private fleet of warships, the power to imprison and execute convicts. Imagine a modern version of this, and you'll basically have your everyday 'evil' company in video-games.
yup.. and we need another hunger games look like movie about this corporation ..
There are other companies that were on the same level as the VOC, though not at exactly that time period. The Dutch West India Company (WIC) British East India Company (HEIC), and the Hudson's Bay Company ( HBC ). Each had their successes and failures. For example, the HBC at one time was the largest landowner on the planet, and was the de facto government for much of what became Canada. It also still exists, which is no longer true for most of the rest.
Companies with armies have not behaved less moral then kings or parlements with armies... you guys are idiots that you think you could do long distance trading in those days without weapons...
South Korea is coming close with Samsung, Hyundai...
I have two words "umbrella corporation"
I'm Indonesian, and i think history about colonialism in our education was too one sided (cause it was one of the main source of our nationalism tough). Generally, they just taught us that 'our people was a good guy' and 'the dutch was a bad guy'. I think it had become a major problem here. And i just curious about what they taught in Netherland about this.
I know that colonialism was a black history in western nations. My teacher who had studied in Netherland said that some of the university teachers there still have a stance that colonialism was good for Indonesian, they said the dutch brought 'modernization' here, etc. Personally i don't reject that, it was partially true that colonialism was 'good', but the suffering because of the massive exploitation both on our people and our land was very true too.
I hope we can see history in a broader perspective. I believe nobody was 'all good' or 'all bad'. So, always open-minded, especially in history.
-Sorry for my English
Hello. Dutch here and partly Indonesian. The Netherlands' educational system doesn't particularly focus on history. This country had it's heroes and villains. I think that the Indonesian lower class of the local kingdoms (Indonesia was very fractured when the Dutch arrived) were heavily exploited up until the end of the 19th century, while the Indonesian nobles, just like the Dutch upper class, made huge profits. In my eyes, the Netherlands didn't enforce any cultural or religious values, unlike other colonial powers. Political and military resistance was violently crushed though. After 1900 Indonesia became rapidly modernized and the social status of the middle and lower class made some improvements. When I first met some Indonesian people, who actually lived their whole lives in Indonesia, they acted like the Dutch enslaved their whole country for 400 years. Quite bizarre, it's not how my grandmother (who was a native Indonesian) remembers it. My uncle is currently working somewhere near Babo, West-Papoea. Anyway, good luck to you.
+Faraz DionAs a dutch history teacher i might be able to help you with your question. In history class we definatly teach about Indonesia on high school it was even one of the main themes for the exam pupils for a couple of years. I think like 20 years ago the story was'nt very balanced and kids were maybe taught a slightly idealised view on the past. Nowadays it seems pretty balanced with quite a lot attention on all the wrong doings that happened. As far as good and bad people go, you are definatly right on that. Every nation had its fair share of suffering(netherlands for example were occupied by the romans, spanish, French and germans and suffered from norse invaders). And there were also quite a few dutch people who went to Indonesia to educate and actually help people. That being said though, it was not right what the dutch in Indonesia did and i am glad most dutch realise that and are taught that in school. Sadly we havent learned and multinationals like Shell, just as the VOC in the past are still doing a lot of bad things in the world. What Shell is still doing in countries like Nigeria looks a lot like what the multinational profit driven VOC did back in the day.
Your English is quite decent.
Growing up in the 80's the History classes were focussed on the 2nd World War more then what happened after, some of the colonial past came to light, but it was all in passing. Things like slavery etc were mentioned as being bad things from the past. They did not go into detail about our colonial history, at least in the 80s.
Geen naam i'm glad to hear that. I hope indonesian and others country's history education become more better, multi perspective view is needed so the misunderstanding about history can be minimized.
HE WHO CONTROLS THE SPICE CONTROLS THE UNIVERSE!
+AirCooledMan2006 Spore reference? Red, yellow, blue...
+Patrick Nugent Dune
+Patrick Nugent I remember i had a monopoly on purple spice❤️
Dennis Ren The Sleeper must awaken.
+AirCooledMan2006 They need to remake a proper one, bring back WESTWOOD STUDIOS, not EA crap!
Thanks for mentioning us!
~ The Dutch
Speak for yourself.
The Toasted Hawk Thanks for mentioning people of my nationality! ~ A Dutch Guy*
Mike dN Good :)
Mike dN Yeah, thanks.~ The Portugals
Luis Junqueira You're welcome !!!
I'm an Indonesian and throughout my years of education the name VOC was mentioned so many times yet I realised I had no idea what they really were. We were just told that they were really horrible and went to torture everyone. Never really understood the system whatsoever. Oh well. Thanks for this!
In the point of view of an Indonesian, as a kid we’ve grown up reading about the dutch, the VOC and their violences everyday in our textbooks. We know full well about the suffering that was bestowed upon our people. The dutch colonized our country for 350 years, and their violations of human rights were nothing minor. How easy it is to turn towards hatred and revenge the racism that were directed towards us. But truth is, ever since the independence, our people has maintaned a very good relationship with The Netherlands. Educational exchanges and trades have made the Netherlands one of our closest ally nowadays. We are not ignorant. This does not mean that we have simply forgotten all about the past.
Hatred is a choice.
As is present in history, when money comes in play, greed beats the common sense of every man. Europeans were the leading example of human intelligence and conscience at that era. They wrote great philosophical debates, build great monuments, invent incredible technologies, yet they were also the pioneers of colonialization and slavery. But for us, the idea of hating the current dutch people who have no hands on the occurences of 60 years ago is just stupid. This attends also the problem of world racism and discrimination nowadays. It’s the same as hating all Muslims because of a terror attack done by a certain number of them, or having prejudices for all germans because of what the Nazis have done in the past. We forgive but we do not forget. History is there to teach us a lesson; of human greed, of their foolishness. It is there so it can never be repeated. When we give way to hating, we are only starting the same mistake. It is up to us whether to forever live in the shadows of hatred or work together in harmony towards a better world.
Quq Balam Hmm yes thank you for your extremely insightful input and argument based on the sound of my name 👌🏻
ArmouredSpacePony Objectively speaking it is obvious that our country nowadays is physically worse than when we’re still part of the netherlands. It’s true that our people are horrible at maintaining the environment or even the architecture! But economically, even if we’re not as stable as we used to be, we are in such a better place now that we don’t have a monopolized colonialized economy system which gives no benefit whatsoever for our people and only aim to make us suffer and make them richer, we also don’t have people dying of nationalized massive forced labour, we are all equal now before the court- no race worthier than the other. If we stayed a part of the Netherlands, it’s true that perhaps, like a lot of countries now we might’ve learned how to better control our resources or even adopting a better european government system, but my people would never have learned and fought for the idea of freedom, or to identify ourselves as our own legacy, to be worthy of our freedom of speech and press that we fought for. Our independence and our liberation are the two most crucial part for the soul of my nation, so, for me, despite all the advantages and reasons? Is it still all worth it to be freer? Yes. yes. yes. always.
ArmouredSpacePony hmm I see that is one possible way. However, personally I don’t think my people would’ve been satisfied with it haha. Considering our incredibly contrasting cultures and traditions, we would’ve been more satisfied settling as an Indonesian rather than a dutch simply because we could identify ourselves with it more but there’s no denying that the netherlands has also played a part perhaps in our modernification
Hi Florencia Edgina, I agree with you .. as a kid I also grown up reading anything bad about dutch in our text book. I But now, after seen many historical videos in YT, also read many International books, and talk directly with Dutch Peoples, I began to see them as fellow humans, who can do many bad things but also good things.
I also learn about a Christian democratic leader such as Abraham Kuyper (1837-1920) spoke about the ”ethical calling” (Ethical Policy) of the Dutch toward the East Indies, I believe there are many good Dutch like this, and also many bad Indonesian who only know to corrupt, since the day of VOC until now. But when we learn about history especially at school, we were told that every mistake happened because Dutch came here. I just want to say to all peoples like that, "If you can't swim, don't said its all because the waves".
When I was in collage (in Indonesia), I took Agriculture & Economy programs, some of my lecturer learned in Wageningen U, Amsterdam U, VU U. Sometimes it's funny to think, that even after achieving independence, in term of agriculture education we still have to learn many things from the Dutch, but .. even today many kids in theirs classroom still learn the Dutch .. were evil
Btw, our channel produces historical videos (using Indonesian languages & with CC),
please check it if you have free time,
Thank you 😇
Well said
"No trade without war and no war without trade"... that IS someting to think about.
Yeah.... Well so is this *fart noises*
Someone's knocking on the door, wait I'll get it. O hey america, to speak of the devil...
I'd say that's communist propaganda but then I'd look like a, i dunno, a whatever. But seriously that's communist propaganda.
The Dutch East India Company history teaches a valuable leasson: After the separation between the State and Religion, must occur other important separation: the State and the Market, the State and the Market Corporations. At same way the State must don't have religious leaders creatings laws and making actions in favor their faith, driving the whole society into a theocracy; the same State must don't have companies executives creatings laws and making actions in favor their corporations, bringing the society into the corporatocracy.
Two words .... TRUMP and the FED
Daniel Magalhaes
How to separated state and conpanies in real world?
It is frequent now to see businessman as politican, they have media and resource too
Hatim Hatim End the nany state, end regulation, end subsidies and stay with a small state that allows competition to happens.
Heresy! The Free Market is the King of kings; God of gods; Holiest of holies; life itself.
Fun facts:
-The VOC has the first recorded use of shares. Needless to say, this method of determining ownership of a company has become very popular today, although back then it wasn't always easy to track down every shareholder.
-The VOC is arguably the first multinational corporation in the world, depending on your definition of "corporation", since it was partially owned by the government (and partially by shareholders).
-The legendary ghost ship, The Flying Dutchman, was a VOC ship. According to legend, it set sail on a moonless night right before Easter (despite being specifically ordered not to by superiors), and never arrived for it's scheduled stop at Kaap de Goede Hoop. Reported sightings of the ship aimlessly floating about sparked the stories of a ship cursed by the devil himself.
-While the VOC is, as mentioned in the video, a trading corporation and pseudo-state, the WIC (West-Indische Compagnie) were little more than privateers employed by the government to hamper other nations' trade with their American colonies.
By the way, John's pronunciation is hilarious if you actually speak Dutch. It's not even close.
So, the Dutch invented the stock market-that's super cool.
JeffGR4 ye
The Dutch also invented banking system, first bank was dutch, and also alot of other stuff
nchamavi There was banking before the dutch even existed.
lool give me an example
nchamavi Venice?
The video forgets one important thing! The Dutch had a lot of windmills.
They changed them into sawmills thanks to a great invention in that time.
Thank to all those sawmills they could build a lot of ships really fast.
For anyone wondering thy the dutch hang the spanish flags there: Thats the ridderzaal (knighshall), the staten generaal(state general) hang the flags of captured or destroyed hostile ships (mainly spanish but also english and swedish)
I live in Brazil. Part of the country, for a short period, was taken in war by the Dutch, and held by the Dutch West India Company. We got lucky and received an awesome governor (prince John Maurice of Nassau) who invested in infrastructure, legislation and a banking system. That made the locals LOOOOOOOOVE him, but was SO expensive the Dutch W.I.Company "deported" him back to Europe.
Funny thing is, believing every administrator would be like Maurice of Nassau, most if not EVERY SINGLE Brazilian student like to say that if we had being kept in Dutch hands and not Portuguese, we would now live in a perfect Paradiseland. Oh, naiveté!
History is a lot about perception!
Edison Michael
Don't count on it.
As an Indonesian I can tell you that Dutch were the most vicious and greedy colonizers. We even still got the legacy of VOC corruption in our beureaucracy.
Akbar Muhammad "Dutch" What do you mean by that, the people who colonised Indonesia and enslaved the people or do you mean the Dutch peasents, the normal people who didnt have anything to do with the terrors which happend in Indonesia. Do you hate the Dutch today because a small fraction of their ancestors enslaved Indonesians. If you do u must know ur judging people on what nationality they got born with and have totally no control over.
Akbar Muhammad As a non-dutch person.. That is the most conflicting statement I have ever read and clear hatred against the Dutch.
What the Dutch did was indeed cruel. The Dutch have been assholes to Indonesians even after WOII. Akbar Muhammed is not trying to antagonize the Dutch of today, he's just angry at how it all went and rightly so. And he's just seeing that those actions of the past still have their effect today in society. It's not a "clear hatred" against the Dutch, it's just a statement that shows he doesn't tollerate that kind of cruelty. I think most of us can find themselves in such an ideology. No shame to know a little shame when appropriate. At least I don't feel offended by him reading his comments as a Dutch person.
@@booktendersclub1110 "May Dutch never win World Cup." Them be fighting words. Let's make nutmeg great again.
One thing that I think is equally important for the grow of the Dutch is the fact that the bigger countries (England and France) were quite unstable at the time. The had a lot of intern turmoil so their focus was a lot more on that. This enabled the Dutch to go out and do their thing. Later when both the English and French stabilized, they quickly grew stronger than the Dutch.
The Dutch: A tiny tiny nation, attacked by the grandest empires the earth has ever seen, and always survived.
Their circumstances bred extreme innovation and scientific exploration, and very small but strong army.
Like a mouse with laser eyes, cause there are 6 tigers ready to pounce him.
thanks I am Dutch
That doesn'make them less monstrous and hateful
Are you drunk?
The dutch, The german wannabe, Failed colonizer, Small country, Sick.
San Marino, said to exist around 700A.D, A TINY FREAKING COUNTRY, LAZY, SITS ON A DUMB ROCK.
Squiddy
Not a german wannabe, thats why theyre Dutch, not German. The Dutch defeated the Germans in combat every time.
Successful colonizer. Cant argue with sheer facts.South Africa, Indonesia, New Amsterdam, Suriname, you name it.
Hard working people, deserve their immortal place in history.
You just buttmad, son.
Wow, I've been studying VOC and Dutch colonialism in Indonesia since 6th grade and only now I understand, 4,5 years later. I've been looking for good videos that discuss this for a while and I finally found it. Now I finally know both perspectives of the story. Thanks, John! Greetings from Jakarta.
Perfect lesson out of all this. That even when a company (or government for that matter) wants to try to do an honest thing (trading), absolute power makes corrupt... Absolutely. That is exactly what went wrong with VOC. That is why a company should not grow that big or have (government supported) monopoly status.
For all the 'hating Dutch' going on right now. I will simply say this. There is nothing to be proud of for what happened by the hand of the VOC. But it happened and there is nothing that any Dutch person can change now 350+ years later. It was a different time, with different morals. And any country, company or government in that day and age that could control people, DID control people. And used the same violence. The Netherlands did not invent violence. When the VOC went bankrupt, the English took over... Now they did exactly the same thing, but because they didn't do it to the same countries as the Dutch, such as Indonesia, it doesn't make it any less worse. So to look at the Dutch for doing this, without taking in consideration that this was the way of the world and business in that era is simply closing your eyes to a unmistakable fact, that should be factured in.
No Dutch citizen would find pride with our country if this was still going on now.
Dutch people today have learned from this. Just like the Germans (more recent history) have learned a vital lesson as well from WW2. I should add that lots of countries other than Germany learned from WW2.
I can't be angry with any German for what happened in WW2. He or she had most likely nothing to do with any of it. Same as that I (a Dutch person) cannot be called on what any of my ancestors did. If they even had a hand in any of this... Which I doubt very much, considering my heritage. Quite frankly if you look at the world history, there really isn't any country that hasn't commited crimes against humanity. THERE IS NONE! Don't mistake yourself in that. We are all making romantic portraits of the Greek and Roman Empires, yet I can assure you there was a great deal of slavery and atrocity there. (Yes white slaves, not all slaves were black. Slavery dates back long before the Dutch did, and Dutch people were also subject to slavery. They also did not invent slavery). Do I look at any Italian, or citizen of Rome or Greece today and blame them for it? No I don't, I can't... That would be racist. Looking at any Dutch person today and calling them 'slavers' or pointing them onto whatever the VOC did is racist. Asking me personaly to apologize for slavery because I am Dutch is racist. No one in my family even ever owned a slave. Slave owning was something only the 1% percent could do. And no one from my family ever belonged to that 1%. So I am not going to apologize for that... What I am going to do is take these sort of history lessons and make sure, that the people around me, and my countrymen, and my children will grow up to be moral and to treat people with respect, regardless of what their believes or the color of their skins are. Because I am not like this. I wasn't raised to think this is normal. I was raised to oppose atrocities such as what happened in the VOC era.
The English took over Indonesia and did such a bad job that Indonesia returned to the Netherlands as soon as dutch ships showed up.
In South Africa the people moved away from the English to stay free.
Even in the Carribians the people wanted the dutch far more than the English.
The golden age endend because England, French, Germany and some other countries attacked the Netherlands. In the Netherlands it is known as het rampjaar.
Im from Middelburg. And im proud of it. Go on a ship in the 1600's to go to Asia required balls and knowlegde.
Gun Runner-82 sounds very similar to the fed or other nation banks.
why did you write this here?
this makes me want to play dutch civilization in age of empires 3
+pramitbanerjee Im playing my own nation atm in Empire total war all the trade is mine
+pramitbanerjee EU4 is GOD
Jason Haven EU4?
pramitbanerjee EU4 is Europa Universalis 4. It's an amazing game, you should check it out.
Aye you should try it out, that and crusader kings 2
I'm Dutch, and this was very helpfull, because I have to do a school project themed to the Dutch VOC.
I learned more of our own history in this video then I did in school and on Wikipedia...
So it's the haunted souls of the native indonesians that make nutela taste so good?
*oh god*
Hazelnuts have a turkish background mate greek and roman people made them big
Nutella isn't nutmeg, it's hazelnuts and chocolate
OMG Nutella I miss Nutella so much
LMAO
teacher: What was the main cause of the VOC?
you: Nutmeg!
"No trade without war and no war without trade" My man was making EU4 walkthroughs before it was cool.
I died at 'the Portugals'
where he said that ?
Why do I see you everywhere?
Why?
Samovar maker you do understand that it was translated from 16th century Dutch
literally in Recife lol
The Netherlands actually got most of its richness form the Baltic Sea trade (Dutch cheese for Swedish/Baltic/German trees, to make more ships). But of course that isnt a really exciting story with death and adventure.
No, most of the Dutch riches came from the Indonesia, during the period 1870-1930. That was only possible because the VOC, abolished in 1799, acquired a foothold in Indonesia, which the Dutch state turned into an allround occupation during the nineteenth century. Different time, same story
Rhaegar Targaryen
When they colonised several Caribbean islands, parts of North America, half of Brazil, Suriname, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, parts of India, as well as South Africa and parts of West Africa, this claim really doesn't sound that tenable.
But is still true. You should not think in exclusively economical terms. The Dutch did not need the Indian/Indonesian spice trade to get rich. The Netherlands were already a rich trading country because of the dominance in the Baltic and European trade.
Getting into the spice trade was a matter of survival. The VOC started when the Dutch were in the 80years war for independence from Spain, as explained in the video. And the trade from the Americas and Indies provided the Spanish crown with a constant flow of riches that financed its wars. So the Dutch had to destroy the trade networks of the Spanish and Portuguese (who were also governed by the king of Spain) to avoid being crushed.
Initially, the Dutch were trading the spices they bought in Lisbon throughout Europe. Only after the Spanish blocked this, the Dutch found the route to the Indies themselves (reducing the length of the voyage by a year), and destroyed the Portuguese trade posts.
@@sirwolfnsuch sorry it was the trade in the baltic, well documented
@@martijnb5887 exactly! I know the guy wants to give a short and sweet summary, but context is missing
no trade without war, no war without trade.
Coen accurately described the human condition.
apud harald exempt that war and trade are two ways to aquire reasorces they are correlated because of this but are exact opposites who happen to often coexist but logically if there is 100% trade then their is no need for war and visa versa
gonna agree only half. 100 % trade without war i can see happening. war without weapon trade is never gonna happen.
If goods don't cross borders, soldiers will.----Frederic Bastiat
@@Rolgi you missunderstand, the reason why he named trade was because trade allways causes war, and war allways causes trade (not just weapons but all kinds of resources)
I am sensing some Capitalism hating incoming.
This is Brilliant! What an inspiring analysis on the VOC and relations between businesses and government and Asia-Europe intercourses. We go through those all the time in our present situations. Also great visual knowledge building and narration. Very good job! (Greetings from a Finnish historian doing business with government and private between Asia and Northern Europe. A lot of resemblances...) :)
Another important reason for the success of the VOC was their technological advantage. They had the best trading ship of the 17th century, the Fluyt. It could carry more cargo than other ships while being cheaper to build and needing less crew thus being cheaper to run.
It's really amazing that the Dutch are so often overlooked when discussing the rise of the West over the Rest. They perfected banking, invented the corporation (for better or worse... mostly worse) made revolutionary new innovations in trade that allowed them to punch far above their own weight. Their financial innovation is what allowed Britain to become a superpower by the 19th century, because Britain was real busy in the century before taking notes from them.
Dont forget the invention of the stockmarket
Never mind the British institutions based on Dutch ideas, or the shift from nutmeg to cotton. What made the British truly outclass the Dutch in the 19th century was Napoleon. If it hadn't been for Napoleon's takeover of the Netherlands, the Netherlands would have kept hold of South Africa, Ceylon, half of Guyana and significant chunks of the coast of India, all of which became British possessions thanks to the Napoleonic Wars.
Napoleon also helped the Thirteen Colonies gain independence. He really helped a lot of people that guy. Good guy Napoleon.
***** Oh, please. Napoleon hadn't even started his military career back then, and I think you'll find that outside the US, not everybody considers the independence of the Thirteen Colonies a good thing.
Robert Faber Not everyone thinks the Thirteen Colonies were something off immediate attention to them either. Most people had better things, or more pressing matters, that needed attention. We only think of the American Revolution as significant because we have the benefit of hindsight. Back then, no one was sure if the USA would even survive in the short term, or were taking bets on how long it would be until it crashed and burned, and begging for the British to return.
I am currently at home sick and learning more from these videos than I do at school
VOC really made Indonesia suffer with their ruthless way of monopolizing spices, but then again they built interconnected roads and other infrastructures that we still uses today in the present time
"Oh and they ethnically cleansed these islands resulting in the suffering and death of entire populations BUT they monopolized nutmeg!" Dang, colonialism sucks.
BUT NUTMEG
Sunjay Hauntingston i dont understand the ethnic cleansing part, until this day it has always been our own ethnic groups that lived in indonesia. voc actian and the dutch government later hasnt been able to maintain any foreign ethnic communities that are present en masse and self sustainable. its a corporate action, not making colonies.
indonesiarayas2 Coen was there when that first fight happened between de VOC and the bandalese. And its unsure who first started it, but some of the VOC man got beheaded by the bandalese (and they apperently took the heads with them) and one of those men was admired by Coen. So the ethnically cleansing could've been revenge too.
Their was NO ethnic cleansing! The VOC were certainly no nice guys(!), but it was part of the Cleverness of their system that they KEPT the LOCAL SOCIAL infrastructure intact, which made them much more efficient compared to their English and Portugese counterparts.
I love how the murders and slavery are always an afterthought. Implying that killing for resources and money is somehow justifiable
You are a bit wrong in one thing. It was not the VOC that made The Republic of Seven United Netherlands rich, it was actually the wheat trade with the Baltic region. This wheat trade made it that the Duch got to use their own land for more profitable luxury goods like meat and butter. Even tobacco was grown.
+knuppelgast you are talking about the moeder negotie. this trade deal allowed the dutch to buy cheap weath from the baltics. thisallowed dutch farmers to focus on export. this was good for the dutch economy, and it made the dutch reliant on trade. this developement led to the founding of the voc which made the golden age possible.
If baltic trade was sufficient to enrich netherlands, why it took so long (3 century) and countless brutal wars for the dutch to leave indonesia? I know dutch was good in economy, half-world spice trade was not profitable than near baltic-trade. Our ancestor glad if europeans never came to Colonize indonesia. They should be stick out with those baltic trade between europeans, let venetian supply you with spices.
The VOC allowed the Dutch state to get a foothold in the Indonesian Archipelago. After turning the foothold into direct occupation in the eighteenth century, the Netherlands made even bigger profits from Indonesia than they ever had from the Baltic, especially during the period 1870-1930
knuppelgast funny you know this,..
That's what really made us rich.
Alot of people don't know that.
"What we need to remember is that this was all about nutmeg". Wonderful.
I was always curious about the Dutch Indian Company.
Eddie Emilee The East Indian (VOC) or the West Indian one?
pieter zeeuwen East Indian.
Eddie Emilee Yea the east was the most interesting one. In history lessons at secondary school the West Indian company is really only discussed for dealing a financial blow to the Spanish by capturing a silverfleet while the war was at its peak, contributing to the Dutch victory (in combination with Spain waging war against the Dutch and the British at the same time). A bit of a shame since the West Indian company has done a lot more but just outshined by the achievements (horrors?) of the East Indian company. Not like the West was a bunch of friendly traders, but then again who was at that time?
Tiza Nasution Sorry for the late reaction (damned youtube system) to answer your question: The West did not do anything spacticular since they did what plenty of others were doing. The East pretty much controlled south east Asia for like 30 years or something, a lot more "impressive"
United East Indian Company.
i have exams tomorrow, and i'm literally just binge watching this. r.i.p. me 2017.
This is so similar to how the economy works in EVE online that it hurts.
+BosonCollider EVE is basically Capitalism simulator.
+Styrkur click click simulator
Today its the America Middle East Company.. Yesterday it was nutmeg and today its oil... lol
Ameer Ismail haha so true x
Ameer Ismail Well said, just what I had in mind. You took the words out of my mouth!
NO TRADE WITHOUT WAR - USA. (today)
also before its tea from china.. now its stuff made in china
@BesteKanaal1 you're right, happens a lot in former African Colonies. Countries like France impose business deals and one sided trade agreements with threats of a coup, political and social agitation and bribes since they can't send ground troops anymore. Don't be surpirsed if you see an african president (serving a lifetime term) drapped in gold with an obviously suffering population. He might be officially head of state but he's actually middle management of Total or an other commodities group.
Amsterdam is gorgeous, and the Dutch are super laid back, I didn't want to leave. :(
When an ad starts for Curiosity Stream's First Man and you skip it after 6 seconds:
"50 Million Years ago, a new species appeared on earth--"
"Hi! I'm John Green..."
If you’re Dutch or just know the language, try reading the paper at 7:39
Good luck...
Dat is geen nederlands meer maat XD
Als je je best doet kan je wel begrijpen wat er staat
De f is een s. Zo moeilijk is het niet om te begrijpen.
Thx for covering this. This gave new perspective about VOC and my nation, Indonesia.
Treaty of Utrecht?!
UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Dutch people will know
because I had to xD
Ik snap bem niet echt.
Ennio Paone maak nie uit
This video will make me start watching Crach Course World History. I stopped after the first series. I gotta get back to it.
I love you Crash Course. Please never leave the internet
Fun Fact: The VoC was also the first corporate monogram logo to be used as they are used today by big corporation.
VoC wasn't the biggest contributor too the dutch wealth, that was the trading with eastern-europe especially via the port in Gdansk in Poland
amunrotha he has no proof so don't believe him you idiot.
i do have proof i have a history teacher and i watched this documentary: www.npo.nl/de-gouden-eeuw/01-01-2013/NPS_1208870 it's dutch so don't blame me but it's true.
opticsarebomb wow, how amazing, You have a history teacher! And a documentary isn't proof, verified data is proof.
there is verified data in this documentary, now go away american scrub en go rage on other comments patriot
this documentary is made by historians, i as a normal person accept what they say because they studied for it
As many americans, John has the confusion that "Free Market" and "Capitalism" are the same thing. Capitalism is just a system of investment of capital to produce more capital. In fact, the easiest way to ensure profit in this scheme is by forming monopolies. "Free Market" is a theoretical idea that markets "without intervention" are more efficient and are benefitial to society. (Of course, "intervention" in this case indicates "government intervention"). But the thing is that in capitalism, the guy with more capital can squash his competition and also, use violent means to enforce his rule (For example, exterminating or slaving populations in the other side of the world). So, in fact, markets "without intervention" almost always end in monopolies, so usually the government intervenes to break these monopolies, making the economy more efficient.
I watched this while eating a pumpkin spice Pop Tart. I feel this was the right thing to do.
The main cause for the British to succeed the Dutch was the fact that the Dutch replaced the (catholic) English king with their own political leader, Stadtholder Willem III of Orange. The British still fondly remember this take over as their "Glorious Revolution (1688)" Although the initial take over was without any violence. To back up their peaceful takeover, the Dutch Willem III crossed the English Channel together with a modest force of 21,000 soldiers carried by a fleet of 53 warships + 400 transports. During the Battle of the Boyne in 1690, this Dutch peaceforce defeated the catholic king James II, consolidating Willem III's position as king of England and Scotland.
This is the most chilling Crash Course episode I have ever seen.
As a Dutch person it is very interesting to see how the American describe Dutch history and how big of a deal it really was for the world.
I'm Dutch and I tried to read the letter at 7:02 but it wasn't easy..
The grammar and Spelling back then was soooo much easier!! They just wrote it like you say it lol.
Now it's a mess with a million rules no one can remember. Even Dutch people often make mistakes!
I am a lecturer in University of Indonesia and using this video to teach about Indonesia economic history. Thank you very much Crash Course. Keep making video that explains...
1d3r3r woow. dosen UI
The Dutch were way more tolerant :: women had many right English women didn’t they could own businesses and land. They also were much kinder to their children.
nutmeg have " antiemetic " contents.
It s perfect for sea/land explorers .. especially for seasickness.
Mortality rate from ship crew and passenger significantly decrease.
Spice = Gold that grow from tree. :D
I wish Crash Course will make video for Srivijaya and Majapahit Empire History.
1. This two Empire control spice trade long before Islam and Western come.
2. Majapahit Empire was one from two civilization who can defeat ..wait for it ..The mongol raider :D
3. Prime minister Gajah Mada vision. The Palapa oath (literally : Spice oath)
4. The Red wedding between Young Majapahit Emperor Hayam Wuruk and Princess from Sunda Kingdom. Battle of Bubat.
5. ..You know nothing Jon snow. :D (spoiler alert)
Peace and Love from Crash Course fan.
+bezzita 21
The Monsoon is coming .... wakakak
The Sunda will never forget. :P
I know little about the Battle of Bubat reference, here some ancient manuscript :
Pararaton ( The Book of King )
Nagarakretagama ( The Virtue of State ??? cmiiw)
Kidung Sunda (The Song of Sunda )
and Thanks to Sir Thomas Stamford Raffles for saving many Java archeology
I think Palapa oath came as reaction of Mongol Threat and make spice trade more peacefully.
It just like ASEAN today vs China in South China Sea dispute.
It interesting facts that Majapahit did not monopolies spice trade, and let their vassal do they own religion and culture as result Islam can grow fast especially at important Port and harbor such as Aceh, Banten, Demak, Malaka, Gresik, Tuban and Surabaya.... this make Majapahit lost they Navy ability and resources. Archipelago state without navy just like fish without water but yet this failure continue till Sultan Agung of Mataram Islam. He did not learn from History. He blame his officer, demolish all his navy infrastructure and focus on religion teaching and misticm rather than upgrade navy technology after fail to capture Batavia twice at JP Coen era .
+rizal hernadi ... Naval Infrastructure and upgrade their technology were expensive. Your Sultan cannot afford it alone. In other hand VOC know the solution of this by selling stocks and obligation. (that's what john Green want to tell us). Sultan Agung represent of Government spending and The VOC represent of Private spending.
..and by the way..This VOC also introduce " Bubble economic" :D
PS. I love one of Borobudur relief, its about Polynesian trimaran ship style. It's awesome. South East Asia people already go to Madagascar when Europe still belief the world is flat. :D
bezzita 21 if you still want it extra credits has a good series.
The Dutch East India company and Fannie Mae were both government backed businesses. Both straddled the line between a public and private companies. Ultimately these quasi government run monopolies proved to be less efficient than the competitive market leading to a crash.
"All the captalists call me Marxist.
All the Marxists call me captalist...."
Been there John.
Ouch, he should not have tried to pronounce that in Dutch.
Let's steal his nutmeg
Yeah, he butchered it
Yeah i'm dutch and he pronounced IT terrible
I'm Dutch and I think he was good for someone who doesn't speak Dutch
Holland gooooo! I live 3 meters below sea level.
6
+Martijn Vooijs the lowest level is 6,70 Nap i thought
And you wearing Wellies
You think you are a world power, but everyone else thinks Copenhagen is your capital...
Never have I encountered someone who thought that.
_"I like capitalism. What I don't like are monopolies and violence, and those are both aspects of one of the first capitalist enterprises…. The VOC provides a chilling example of what has happened in the past when corporations become more powerful than states.”_
So let me get this straight, the Dutch Government creates a state-sanctioned monopoly company and confers upon it the enormous power to unilaterally declare war; a power/status the Government does not afford to _any_ competing Dutch interests. This _monopoly_ then, in the course of pursuing profits, eventually becomes responsible for several atrocious acts of aggression, murder, enslavement, and the like.
Why exactly is this the fault of "capitalism?" It is only by way of the Dutch state’s authority and sanction that the VOC was able to even exist. The VOC's actions were clearly the unfortunate consequence of a state mandate. It’s not as if the VOC was some lawless band of renegades who coerced the state into legally sanctioning it. On the contrary, the VOC did not stand in any obvious violation of the Dutch state’s laws. Thus, the VOC (properly construed) was not some microcosm of capitalism per-se, as it wasn’t a state-independent entity to begin with.
Granted, there are real problems with capitalism. For instance, while markets work fairly well most of the time, they often fail under a certain narrow range of circumstances. Moreover, when this happens it is often appropriate for the state to intervene. However, the VOC narrative is anything but an archetypal example of the "excesses of capitalism." Rather, it is a cautionary tale about how state interference in ordinary market activity can produce terrible (and often unintended) consequences.
*Capitalism:* _”An economic and political system in which a country’s trade and industry are independently controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.”_ - Oxford English Dictionary
LaughingMan0X What you described does not contradict the definition of capitalism you gave. The VOC was controlled by private owners for profit, despite being granted its absurd status by the Dutch government.
The conflict is with the idea of a free market, rather than with capitalism.
Falcrist There is a conflict. Consider capitalism’s “private and independent from the state” relation (included in the aforementioned definition), and, consider the exact nature of the powers granted to the VOC. To quote a source I'm not fond of on the extent the powers conferred on the VOC: _"[the VOC] possessed quasi-governmental powers, including the ability to wage war, imprison and execute convicts, negotiate treaties, strike its own coins, and establish colonies."_
No private non-governmental entity has such extensive legal powers. The only large complex organizations who possess this assemblage of characteristics falls squarely under the banner of “states.” Thus, insofar as the VOC was granted the powers it was granted, it was, in-effect, an extension of the Dutch state itself. Moreover, the aformentioned definition required a capitalistic system to be one involving economic activities between private individuals independent of state institutions. Since that was not the case here, it would follow that the VOC was not some microcosm of capitalism.
However your point is well taken. In the minds of most people (and my own), the notion of capitalism usually presupposes an economic system in which private non-state actors (1) own the means of production, (2) produce the bulk of goods and services that are consumed within the system, and (3) insofar as private persons are engaged in sanctioned economic activity, their exchanges of goods and services can be characterized as _voluntary_ within the context of a particular set of property norms.
LaughingMan0X He wasn't saying the VOC was created by capitalism. Only ignorant people see that. You need to look outside of the box. His point is that modern capitalism is associated with allot of the same traits of the VOC. Namely monopolistic behaviours and the quest for super profits. he was essentially saying that firms created by modern capitalism act like the VOC, not that the VOC was a product of capitalism because (as he clearly pointed out), its not.
LaughingMan0X "“private and independent from the state” ... (included in the aforementioned definition)"
That's *not* in the definition you gave.
The requirement is that it be independently controlled, not that it be completely independent. It was privately controlled.
As for your assertion that it's a state actor rather than a corporate entity... it's not going to fall neatly into a modern definition, because it's not a modern entity. You could make a solid argument either way. I don't really see that being a productive conversation, though.
Falcrist Exactly. the VOC was a government project, but was given the independent power to start wars, hold and execute prisoners and really, commit crimes against humanity. Furthermore id like to reiterate that the VOC was not a product of capitalism, it was an example of how horrific it can be when corporations have more power than the government. Which is reflected in the modern capitalist system, particularly in the US.
I see a lot of people discussing whether capitalism or communism is better in the comments, which really isn't the point of the video.
The truth is economic systems are far more complicated then terms like "capitalism" and "communism". Both have variations, and few nations have ever been purely one or the other.
The video dealt very specifically with what historically happens when a corporation ends up with far too much power (to the point of being authorized to wage war). That isn't an indictment on the very notion of capitalism, just an indictment on the idea of allowing corporations to do literally whatever the heck they want. I think even the most hardcore pro-capitalists should be able to admit that it's probably for the best if Wal Mart isn't permitted to openly conquer a 3rd world country and use it's inhabitants for slave labor.
Actually no, communism is pure equality, and capitalism is organized anarchy.
Both never worked, as shown by sweat shops of the 1890's and starvation in pretty much 80 years since 1917.
Joseph Stassup soooo..... you don't like dr.pepper
What do you mean?
But in the USA that is already pretty much the case. Large companies such as Lockheed Martin,Boeing, Raytheon, Northrop Grumman etc. finance their senators of choice and they do their masters' bidding by stoking the fires and provoking the masses to go to war, last time it was Iraq, now it's Iran.
sogghartha I think with Iran we need to ask why we didn't go to war with them 8 years ago even though Bush was moving in that direction. And the reason for that was that after what happened to Iraq, selling the American public on another preemptive war was outside the capability of even the wealthiest and most influential players. That might change in the long term, but the point is that the political system is more complicated then just who has the most money.
If it was anything like the Dutch East India company. Then the oil companies and whoever else would profit from conquering Iran could just hire some military contractors and invade Iran directly without any interaction from the US government at all.
Great video. Love your personality/humor. Good lessons, too. And I agree with your political views.
This is my favourite part of economics - the dutch and their revolutionary economic tools, it's just amazing how the right fiscal policies can lead to such a world dominance...it's mesmerizing!
Jan Pieterszoon Coen heeft niets verkeerd gedaan
Zeg makker, kokosnoten zijn geen specerijen
Zeg makker
Seg makker
Fok je met me volk breek ik binnen door je keukenraam
*G E K O L O N I S E E R D*
IT IS NOW APRIL 2nd and I have not received my series finally blowout. I will miss John's presence in the series and I will continue to follow his stuff.
NOW GIVE ME CLOSER.
I love how they used "Gold member" as a representation of the Dutch.
I love how the letter back from the East Indies says 'Aight' lol
I just was in Amsterdam like a week ago and visited the Rijksmuseum and saw the painting from 1:50 . Its so weird seeing it here again. Like my mind was blown.
proud to be dutch
Andry Wijaya why the hate man? its history. it just happend and we are not like that anymore
Joost Babbels. It's normal to hate dutch. We have a strong reason for it. Give anythings what your ancestor stole from us back to us, then we will not hate you anymore ! 350 years your ancestor destroy Our kingdoms and raped our womens.
juna fakih Keep crying😢😂😂😂
juna fakih oh please don't exaggerate that 350 years of conquering anymore. It just makes you stupid of history. Although it's true that we Indonesians may hate the Dutch, but don't make their history look even mightier than what they were supposed to be
De Maatschappij Ha! 260 million people ready
The Netherlands, a tiny country that kicked ALMOST all powerful western nations asses at one point or an other in history, a nation with roughly the same number of people as some of the biggest city's in the world, yet always winning Olympic medals by the fleet, a tiny nation that has the tallest population in the world. A country where its earliest kings even defied emperor Nero. A tiny speck in Europe so important a smaller city in it has become the house of world law and justice. a country where the first enemy they beat was the sea it self making it a country who bested a force of nature itself........ oke im done smelling my own farts now XD
Portugal was also small but worldly powerful and important. Switzerland, half the population then of Holland but as historical and important. OK you may be right, Holland is the pioneer and historical world leader in so many ways, almost compatible with her giant neighbors.
Yes!! and the methods they followed are most disgusting! They are the most disgusting scum of all history! If you feel any pride in the conquests then you should also feel pride about what kind of a scum they were. Everyone always tries to put out the good they have done, but the bad stuff over shadows all the goodness. It’s been more than 70 years after independence of India. I’ve never lived in those times and I know very less of how it was like. But still I was never able find forgiveness for their wrong doings and I still hate Britain culture even to this day, if i ever visit there I won’t be seeing beautiful buildings, all see is money they have earned by killing men, raping women and starving young kids to death. That’s the trophy they have earned.
Also, I don’t hate the current citizens they have nothing to do with it, but I hate their history.
@@harishsista6070 name 1 civilization that did not know war or conquest before the white people came and conquered them. That did not take from others at some point in history. Strife and conquest are human nature, we were just better at it. Even india used to be multiple countries befor great king ashoka united (conquered) the whole of india.
Also you should look at the war tactics they have used, they have only done what satan does in the Bible. I don’t feel proud about it, it’s just disgusting!
Ruhal Foyls also I’m really sorry if you’re having a bad day and I messed it up..
Very good summary, but it's missing some context. the VOC didn't start off in a vacuum, and that is somewhat indicated in your introduction, where you mention the 7 provinces becoming independent from Spain (by reference)l The Dutch were already very successful and the core trade was within Europe, where they were more successful than any other nation for the reasons you mentioned as well as because of innovation (e.g. the 'fluit' ship design), and that success was envied by other nations, and they resented their indepence and religion (protestant). The Dutch were under attack from all sides. That was also the reason for the Glorious Revolution / invasion and takeover by William IIII, who was instrumental in upgrading English financial infrastructure just to keep his wars against the Catholics going - and in doing so, gave the English the instruments to beat the Dutch at their own game, as it were. The VOC and the WIC were in the context of the Dutch attempts to retain their success and defend against their English, French and Spanish attackers, as well as for mere profits.
"Coconuts aren't spices" Silent Willem 2k17
i know this is a history/ educational channel but i would like to see u play civilation 5 and i think you would enjoy it
+CreeperHD minecraft,pokemon and more Yeah, a John Green Let's Play would be interesting. John actually has a channel where he plays video games, called "hankgames", but for some reason he plays games like GTA 5 and football/soccer games on it, rather than something turn based and strategic, like Civ 5, which would suit him way more. We can only hope.
Btw, John's played Civ 5 before, so he's familiar with it already. Just hasn't done a Let's Play of it yet, sadly.
+CreeperHD minecraft,pokemon and more
A game like EU 4 or Crusader Kings 2 would suit him even better lol
I must have took a half dozen different courses in history while in highschool, and none of then were ever as interesting as these history bites from CrashCourse
I think the VOC shows how powerful a relatively small group can be when they are tolerant of one another, especially relgion-wise, and set aside differences for the greater good.
Unfortunately it also shows how easily power and greed can lead to corruption and the most atrocious deeds versus other human beings, who are not within your group.
Peter Timowreef
You are conflating the religious toleration of the United Provinces with the areas administered by the VOC, where there was no religious toleration.
Its so annoying how people confuse capitalism with colonialism and slavery.
Professor used your videos to teach. Love the inside jokes! Really good content.
S P E C E R I J E N
HAHAHAHAHA. That word. Very funny. Don't know why it cracked me up so much. (Super grappig jezus).
V O C
Spice
G E K O L O N I S E E R D
Ｇ Ｅ Ｋ Ｏ Ｌ Ｏ Ｎ Ｉ Ｓ Ｅ Ｅ Ｒ Ｄ
G E K O L O N I S E E R D
Dutch word which means "colonized"
@@satrap2364 r/wooooosh
The Dutch are pretty comfortable in the shadows...
The Dutch are that silent person in the back of the bar, sipping i'ts beer... Owning the bar.
love my country the Netherlands I am Dutch.
i dont give a fuck ! I hate you
+juna fakih Me? It was a compagny not a country.
+Rick van den Berg ignore him, now we have no reason to hate dutch, u right it was a company not the real image of dutch people, u guys r so kind, in colonialism era dutch help build my homeland on north celebes, providing agricultural facility,military, church, etc, thankyou visit us sometimes
+Josva Pardede thank you
+josva pardede kind ? Ugh fuck ! What the hell are you talking about ? Do you mean raped some women in java island were kind ? Most of peoples in java island were slaves with tiny salary or may be they didnt pay them at all. Your ancestor didnt live in java island. If they did, it would be a different story
Normal Brain: Portuguese
Big Brain: Portuganians
Galaxy Brain: Portugals
I`ve translated this video to Bahasa Indonesia, I hope that CrashCourse crew approve it. We Indonesian directly related to this subject. So it is important to know from CrashCourse interesting perspective. Thank you
Of course the VOC speaks to our imagination more, but like 75% of all profits were made by trade in the baltic sea. Which was refered to as 'moedernegotie' or mothertrade. There the dutch used politics and just making all kinds of companies too, one company was so powerful in Sweden I believe, that their king had to give his crown as a pledge for more debt. The irony is that just maybe the dutch would have been better of by just staying there and let other countries do all the expensive stuff like maintaining colonies
I'm Indonesian, it hurts to learn the history knowing the great Dutch renaissance of 17th century is based on my people slavery.. all because of nutmeg! DAMN IT!
+Niels Manten wrong, especially in Banda, VOC killed and enslaved the native.
Sorry dude but we had to have that sweet, sweet nutmeg
Sumateran and Javanese are very lucky, we're never taking any wound to Greet the Dutch arrival, until Dutch are conquered by French on Napoleonic Era that forced my Ancestor for Build Long-Distance Road Anyer-Panarukan for Defense Facility against British, and started their slaveries system. :3 :)
the dutch mostly used hindu and Indonesian workers
Netherlands Ball some dutch did wrong. i am not afraid to admit it.
but its not like they are not doing any better without us.
John should do a series on Economics. Also, we need a Geography series guys
considering that every communist nation is turning away towards capitalism (yes even North Korea's considering it) tells you just how hard it is to get rid of it; if getting rid of it is even a wise idea.
Yeah, North Korea actually has made limited trade between citizens legal kind of because capitalism always prevails in the most oppressive communist empires, so much so that North Korea has been forced to make it legal to prevent having to put such a large portion of the population in their jails/salve camps
Communism is stateless u ignorant fuck...
Fabian Gonzalez-Cortes
Only half true. The ultimate goal of communism is indeed a stateless society in which the means of production are equally shared among all people in the society--this they share with the anarchists. However, there needs to be an intermediate step in which a central authoritarian government must dismantle and then reconstruct capitalist society into the communist society; this is the point where communism and anarchism diverge. Indeed, one of the biggest problems in Marxist theory is that no mechanism for the dissolution of the revolutionary state was provided.
Fabian Gonzalez-Cortes in practice, it's defiantly not stateless. Most forms of communism try to approach a 'utopian society' that will not need a government: that utopia is stateless. However since communism normally uses or supports extremism or drastic change, such policies require a government. Anarchy is not Communism.
Not exactly easy to run a country in today world without trade, hard to trade with capitalists if your not one. Or if you'd prefer, its a lot easier to trade with capitalists if you are also capitalist.
A rich person said to me that he paid more in taxes then all of us poor..
And I mentioned that, That isnt how capitalism works..
It works on how much people BUY, not how much that pay in taxes..
1000 poor people pay MORE for rent, utilities, Insurance, Toys, cars, Food...which drives the economy..Paying more in taxes, just means 1 person makes lots of money..
If the poor had 2 times as much money, they would pay more in bills, and spend more at the store, and shopping, and buy more cars..
The rich person, wouldnt spend much more..he MIGHT buy a bigger home, but that is 1 itam...not 1000's..
Ed ash Its actually true, sorry for my saying.
The top 1% control 99.5% of the world's wealth. In the US they pay up to 50% in taxes. So yes, they most certainly do pay more taxes than the combined wealth of the work force. By a fuck ton.
Diana Peña its not that..Its the idea that 1 persons job is worth MORE, then another.. I can see small changes, but the differences are to great.
There is 1 man, that works for 4 different banks.. Owns 1, CEO of another, Borad of directors at others.. This person makes more money then you/I and a million poor people in 1 day..
The problems are in trade. the biggest market in the World is trade and shipping. the Middle man jobs.
the USA is a closed market for 1 reason. you HAVE TO go thru the usa distributors to market your goods.
Example...DVD of an anime in Japan is about $5 USA..and the same DVD in the USA will cost you $50+...
direct DISTRIBUTION, from the maker to the buyer, Stopped long ago..We used to get a fair discount by jumping past the meddle men.. not any more..NOW the net is here, and companies can do direct sales, but ARNT giving us the savings..
(this is a JOBS thing) how many jobs lost if the makers can go Direct to the buyer..
Starbattle64
Lets see...how to handle LOTS of money so you dont pay tax on it...
If you want that info...look it up, there are many sites to give you info..
The Average Poor person pays 60-80% of his pay, in taxes. Be they direct or indirect taxes. You pay the transport fees, handling fees, you pay the Taxes Others working on your goods pay...you pay taxes on your BILLS, your RENT, Your Mortgage and any loan...
Lets start with the 30% from your pay check, and go up from there.. Fuel taxes, francise fee taxes(look at your cable/phone/cell bill)
Until recently there was a tax, from the Spanish/american war in the 1880's on all phone bills..(they forgot about it) and then after taking it off, added a NEW ONE..
Ed ash I wasn't talking by percentage. I mean the rich are genuinely worth more and are therefore paying more money in taxes.
Not that I think its a good thing.
Starbattle64
'Worth has no meaning in how rich a person is, or how much money they pay in taxes..
Ever hear the words, "ON PAPER".. Adding up all the stuff a corp owns and placing the Value on 1 person?? Most of its tax deductible..
And if you think ahrd about it, his wages were made from money we paid, which MEANS we paid his taxes.. Or is it that because the Corp paid him, its a deduction to the corp... Or does he have his money shipped to another country, and declared Tax free, in the USA..
your videos are becoming an addiction of mine
As a Blackman I have just learn never mess with a white boy and his love for sugar and spice!
They will kill for spicy sandwiches.
Lol
I am not going to visit Africa or Past India . I wish all people the best.
the spice must flow
The Dutch's OC is so well-detailed and amazing.... I can feel the vibes.
3:07 is dedicated to all my Greek friends out there.
Whats wrong with worker control of their own workplaces via a democratic process in which they receive the fruit of their labor and not their boss
Illya Lypyak Inefficience, corruption, inecesary burocracy.
Because, who took the financial risk to create the workplace. Say you own a shoe store, you took the loan, you took the risk, you put your blood sweat and tears into. Now Tony the stock boy wants an equal cut from your business, Is this fair?
mbsalto because those problems cannot exist in vertical business model at all (sarcasm). It's easier to corrupt a few ppl with large amount of power than a large group of ppl who have the same amount of power. Bureaucracy: a system of government in which most of the important decisions are made by state officials rather than by elected representatives, this definition would fall more in with a traditional company with mangers and boards than with the workers self management or even them electing temporary managers.
library.uniteddiversity.coop/Cooperatives/Worker_Participation_and_Productivity-Meta_Analysis.pdf disagrees on the ineffective
ShoutingCoffee Who are the people who do the service or create the goods? Whose labor is used to create capital? Who dose the owner profit from their work? Who takes the risk working their?
Illya Lypyak
both systems have the same problem, yes. Now, if a group of workers form a cooperative and create a business, ofcourse they should get a share equal to each contribution. But if an investor or a group of them are which set up a business running, shouldnt them also get a benefit? The workers in this case, get a salary, they have no risk, if the business runs out of money they have social security(most of the nations of the world, exist some kind of social security), the investors in the other hand can loose everithing if a business goes wrong. I think both models can and should cooexist, and there are many cases where they work fine together.
The Portuguese empire didn't fail to control it. They were successful, a lot of fortresses were built to keep competition, like the Ottoman empire, away. It went in decline when Portugal formed an union with Spain and the Dutch arrived.
I think it's disturbing that a lot of people think that VOC is something to be proud of or even awesome. I mean, yes, people at that time think differently so what VOC did was 'normal' at the time. But it doesn't excuse the cruelty that it did to Indonesian people. Yes, perhaps if VOC did built infrastructures for Indonesia. But they built it for their own good and without having to pay the workforce or even also the materials. That was nothing Indonesians should be thankful for. And if VOC paid wages to the people working for them, they were far from sufficient.
Of course you can be proud of your country and its achievements. It's natural. But please don't turn a blind eye to the casualties that in this case, the VOC had caused. It's not like you have to say sorry again and again to Indonesians--you were not the one at fault, true. But admit that the people of the past were cruel and inhumane. The VOC was cruel. That's the least you could do.
I think it's disturbing that there are still domestic tensions from something that was ages ago.
Right on girl !
i love you Avista wkwkwk
The Indonesian government killed ten times more Indonesians between 1945 and 1995 than the Dutch did from 1600 to 1963. doesn't mean we are innocent, we have done bad things, but they did much, much worse to their own population.
Remember Soekarno? Remember Soeharto? Very nice people? Up to their knees in their victims blood!
You want to look back 300 years but not 30?
Do not ask your great great great grantfather but ask your mom and daddy!
+Dutch Man, you are referring to this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_killings_of_1965%E2%80%9366 ?
I was surprised about how few Indonesians know this.
Yes, but among other events,
When Soekarno started the liberation of Indonesia, he killed every opponent he could trace, publicly when possible and secretly if needed.
With independancy Indonesia became a federation. But soon after Java took more and more control over the other islands. Every resistance to Soekarno was broken and many were killed to end the federation and start a central ruled state. Democracy ended in bloodshed all over the country.
Many had to go into exile.
After that the regime surpressed the population until Soeharto took over and the events you refer to occurred,
When the end of the Soeharto regime was nearing, they didn;t go in peace and again they committed crimes against humanity,
Sadly enough the Indonesian population payed a heavy price, time after time.
Then add to this the take over of Papua. The take over of Timor. The killings of christians on the Molukkan islands The fight against Hindu population on Bali. The fight against the people of Borneo because they are not islamitic and the taking of their land for plantation of oilpalmtrees. The fight against the population of middle and south Sumatra for the same reasons.
Do I have to give you more examples?
Sad to think that the only reason the dutch were ever strong was because we were the only country that accepted other religions and work together. With this we attracted the greatest thinkers of Europe like Descartes and the Pilgrims, founders of the USA who could not speak freely in their home country. And now we are just as intolerant as the rest of this world.
+L Cerebella You fell asleep during the who catholic v protestant lessons in history class didn't you?
+KajiRider1997 All things considering, however the Dutch republic was one of the most tolerant states in the world at the time.
+KajiRider1997 actually the catholic Spanish were prossecuting everyone who wasnt catholic, thats why the protestant Dutch rebelled(also not wanting to be under Spanish rule).
the protestant were open to all religions though.
Hi, I'm dutch and I'd like to that in the Netherlands, the VOC is still very iconic in the dutch culture. Most people don't know the bad things we did out there. That's a shame.
Last year I read the famous book Max Havelaar from Multatuli. The reallife based story is in time after the VOC ruled in Indonesia. After the VOC was found bankrupt, the dutch government ruled to Indonesia in a cruel way. In the book Max Havelaar this is described in a very good way. It's worth reading although it's can be hard to read because of the old language used.
People kill for nutmeg, this amazes you ?
Think about life in that time, what does your food today taste like, wonderful right ?
Back in the day, Europe knew only salt. Meat was salt. Vegetables were salt, candy.. what candy. Cookies... what cookies.
Sail across oceans and get introduced to Indonesian foods, of course they thought about how much they could earn back home when introducing those tastes. Where does the killing comes in ? Well if you are the only one selling it, you make a lot more then when everyone sells it. So kill off those who mess with your business.
Barbaric ? What, you mean people in our time don't kill for money anymore ?
Jila Tana now it’s oil
Not true Europe had spices just not the ones that came from other places they were so rich they wanted more and took it. Meat and salt was a staple but wasnt the only staple they had options. They made flavored oils with fish and other plants and vegetables, I'm sure the lower classes were content with what they had and were fine with getting more later on.