Gaby, I am quite new to your channel. So glad that I found you. I am a retired disabled veteran in the USA. I have loved good music all my life and passed it on to my kids. Two of my 3 children (grown), are musicians. I have always been a DIY, and was an early adopter of technology in my generation. I can't believe I have waited until I am 60 years old (Aug, 26) to get interested in higher quality HiFi. Thanks for all of your videos. You are a wonderful presenter.
I must agree with Bobby. I love this channel and gabby makes it so interactive which is so unique. Everything you doodle gabby is done with so much passion for the hobby as well as wanting to share your knowledge with the audio community. Thank you so much.
Thank you for this Video I always wanted to build something easy like this You always have a nice way of presenting DIY in a way that we can all understand.
Thank you @Gabster1 for posting some great DIY stuff. May I make a small suggestion to split your timeline into sections with headers? Its very convenient when we want to revisit a video for enhanced learning. :)
I have now the ProtoDac, I also ordered the PuriPi for the first step. Later I will order the FifoPi Q7II. Now in your video I can´t see the separate 5Volt to the ProtoDac. In the description they say, if using the Fifo you must cut the pin 2, 4 from the ProtoDac, is this correct? So if i use later the FifoQ7II i must desolder the whole Proto Dac for cutting pin 2, 4? Thanks for info, Alex
Thanks for this video. I like the way you have done the build. Are there any ideas about a suitable housing? Otherwise the stacked boards will catch dust with the time. What I like is the usage of the proto DAC. Actually I use a simple approach with a Pi zero and a small DAC HAT from Hifiberry. It works but it is far away from high fidelity.
Thanks Gabby. I just got a protodac working with my pi 3. I am running riopeee xl with it. My question. I know the protodac is polarity inverting. Is there anyway to compensate in riopeee? I looked and couldn’t find any. Thank you for all your great videos!
I was reading through the comments, and I hadn't seen anyone actually describe a sense of what the dac sounded like. You mentioned it sounded really really good, but, is it like a $79 SMSL SU1, some topping product, or more of a vintage sound, warmer with a little resonance. This is the kind of window shopping I enjoy listening and reading about. If anyone could post their experience or impression, I think it'ld be a great thing to share. I stumble into this Gabster room, and have really enjoyed it, Thanks!
Don't let the price guide you on this one the key to better sound compared to the Smsl is good quality power in the form of great regulators Batteries and ultracapacitors also the main one is the best re-clocker by Ian
I would like to thank you for the ProtoDac review, can't wait to build it. Right now, I am considering how much money to spend on the project..in case I will use the PurePi, does it matter if I power it with IFI Power supply 5V or I can use cheaper PS without some negative effect on the final sound? Thank you for advice
Hi Gaby! Thanks for your videos, I enjoy watching them. I already have an unused rpi4 and ordered the protodac, so I first want to test the most simple build (rpi+protodac)... so I don't throw away money buying a fifopi q7 if I screw up with the soldering of the protodac 😛. I wanted to know if I can use my phone, connected with USB to stream music? Thanks.
Hi Gaby, I trief to find the CRC caps 10uf 1% 30V but no luck. Do you have a source for these? Or do you have an alternative coming close? Thank you for advice.
Thanks for the great videos you post. I have s question the batteries on the PurePi. What capacity do they need to be something like 1800mah or more. Thanks for your time
Hello Gaby. First of all, thank you for this video. I've done my soldering duty ;) now I have the ProtoDac (copper shielded) on a RPI4 with volume (Qobuz implemented so well) and it sounds pretty good. It is a very enjoying set up. The music is very pleasant to listen to. I want to improve the set up step by step with Ian Canada items. I don't know what I have to do first : FifoPiQ7 of PurePi or other ? What do you think ?
If you can afford both it would be ideal as the Fifopi Q7 will need a good 3.3v that is available on the purePi and this way it will be easy and will open the door for future upgrades
We just built basically an identical DAC, using the PurePi power supply, Q7 and Protodac module - built with quality components and we're experiencing a harshness in the treble in particular when the dynamics increase. We're using Moode Audio software and have been playing with the settings and can't get rid of it. Sounds like high frequency sibilance. When Miles plays his horn on Sketches of Spain - ahhhh it's not nice, not really terrible terrible but in our highly resolving system we need to push pause - fast! Any ideas what's wrong in the signal path??? We are running the Q7 with our BK DC bench supply because we can't get those darn 3.2v batteries anywhere.
Bench power supplies are not that great if you test them they have a lot of ripple Clocks are very sensitive You can get by with common 3.7 v batteries just drain them to 3.4 before putting them in but do get the 3.2 v Ones. I had great success from thi AliExpress supplier and lithiumwreks See the bottom of the description of my latest Dac video ruclips.net/video/EPV1ON23L0Y/видео.htmlsi=uZ31hkYq6vSc4LVB Also make sure your IV resistor values are correct as recommended as higher values can cause distortion see the ProtoDac build documents How that helps
Thanks we couldn't find those batteries anywhere, I'll give the Ali guy a shot. I measured the I/V metal foil resistors before installing them and they came in at 419r / 419r, but I'm wondering if the sibilance we're hearing is being caused by the I/V resistors. I'll pull the BK supply and drop in some batteries and see if the treble improves. If not we'll sweep the unit and see if we can't isolate the distortion. Cheers!
Update, we drained some nice Samsung 3.7v 18650 cells down to 3.3v and ran the Protodac for the first time as designed and wow, 95% of the high frequency sibilance is gone and with most music it exceeds what our Astell & Kern can do. I'm starting to think the recordings that we have high frequency problems with are actually the fault of the digitization. We have a huge collection of high quality digital music and are sampling various audiophile quality recordings and are only hearing the problem on a few recordings.
@@ProtoDAC No I think the module is fine, we hear the same sort of sibilance in other dacs. We work professionally in audio and I've basically come to the conclusion that digital audio always has some problems in the high frequencies, some dacs a bit less and some a bit more. As a result of my digital experiments, we decided to invest more heavily on the analogue side, the sonics are just superior in every way to digital. Yes vinyl records can have surface noise and yes reel to reel tape also has tape noise, but and this is a big but, when you compare a good quality piece of recorded music both in digital and analogue the analogue version almost always sounds better and not by a little bit. Now I'm not talking about the modern remastered records that are cut from cd masters, but real AAA recordings (prior to 1982). The one very interesting thing is that digital records made from about 1979 to 1985 can sound amazing, sort of a hybrid between a cd and record, low noise, great dynamics and warmth, with no high frequency issues. But from about 1985 on, that all changes with the invention and adoption of the first digital work desks - from that year onwards digital everything basically sucks the life out of the music.
can i use this kit to build up a bluetooth speaker ??? i know bluetooth downgrades a bit in audio quality, but i have a amp board which sounds horrible. And the big + is, i can add a display with touch to the system for functions like adding a streamurl, or wifi keys and that kind of stuff.
No that is not possible as the ProtoDac is already line level that is the beauty of it just use your rca input as long as you are under 4 ft you are fine. You will love it I tried to get balanced you will need 2 protodacs and a processor to reverse 1 of them by then you lost all the benefits.
We're using basically an identical build to yours (running Moode app) and we can't get DSD to play, natively or DoP. If we remove the Q7 from circuit and just stack the Protodac on the Raspberry Pi, DSD plays perfectly. Any ideas? I've contacted IanCanada, but no luck.
@@Gabster1 you can turn the DoP off using switch 1, located on the underside of the board. We tried that and nothing. The weird thing is if we pull the Q7 out of circuit and drop the Protodac directly onto the Raspberry Pi, DSD in all resolution and PCM play just fine. But of course we are back to a fair amount of sibilance in the treble, which is almost completely eliminated with the Q7 in circuit. I'm pretty sure we were directly feeding the Protodac DSD using DoP, I can't see how it would work any other way. But Ian says we need to upsample the DSD into PCM to get it to work, which in fact we didn't need to do without the Q7 in circuit.
Q7 (also Q3) provide only 3.3V to GPIO pins 2 and 4, and this cannot be changed. FifoPi MA is also designed to have 3.3V on 2,4, but it can be changed. RPi standard GPIO is 5V on pins 2 and 4. ProtoDAC needs 5V. In order to use Q7, use a stacking header with pins 2 and 4 removed. The apply 5V to the 5V/GND pads between the RCA jacks on ProtoDAC.
I am tying to use a TransportPi Digi as a reclocker, but can’t get any audio out. If I remove it from the stack and just use the Protodac on the pi with moode, all is golden. Any hint on what settings to use with the TransportPi ?
I'm in the U.S., I'm 64, and I can't figure this out. I've got the chip and the raspberry Pi, but the easy tutorial for ordering the PCB, I have no clue to what I'm looking at or what the instructions mean. Step 1, open schematic... can't figure out how to do that. Any easier link available for ordering the board and better parts? Appreciate the patience.
one question: i will get a good DAC from a friend , I have already purepi, fifoQ7, which transport to the DAC you would choose? TransportPi AES, Flagship AES/SPDIF s transport?, or TransportPi Digi/II, ?
If your friends Dac has I2s in a HDMI Get the HdmiPi pro II if not get the Transport Pi AES But since you have a Purepi and FifoQ7 already Your half way to a Gabster TD1 Dac Just get a I2s to PCM board and a Gabster TD1 Dac and try that and hear the difference for yourself Gabster TD1 Dac My Favorite of all times ruclips.net/video/y3MB5W970Ow/видео.html
also I am wondering a little bit, why ist the price difference from the IanCanada versus the european shop very high for example Fifo Q7II 199.- europe: 265.- ???
Dear Gabster, I built one. Unfortunately after powering up in fixed volume mode the sound starts getting hissy and scratchy after 10 to 20 seconds. (the software volume mode doesn`t work at all) I checked the dac over and over, looks ok to me. Is it possible that there is a bad joint in the 1387module, or is it a problem in the Mo0de software? Unfortunately it is not possible to contact mr. Curtis. For the record my Pi 3 with Hifiberry hat works perfectly. What do I need to do?
If you assembled the ProtoDac yourself check for bad connections or shorts between pads The modules are cheap it is possible you got a bad one try a different module got to be something wrong somewhere It can also be software I never tried Moode
Sounds like a timing mismatch between output of the PI and the DAC. Variance doesn't need to be much to eventually cause jitter to get so large that the DAC starts seeing errors causing distortion. Not sure what you would do about it without some test equipment to find the root cause. One thing to so would be to make sure configuration on the PI is correct for bit rate etc.
Hi I like you Chanel a lot Thanks I have a pi with #20B. TransportPi Digi,Audiophile grade master mode digi transport And use popieee and roon with a external DAC. Can I use the protodac instead of my external DAC?
Yes you can I believe you can simply plug the protodac on top of the TransportPi Digi as according to the manual Pin 2 and 4 are 5v so simply plug it on top and enjoy the music let me know if it sounds better or not.
This will stream from the RPI you will need to install software like Roon, Moode, Volumio…. And the ProtoDac board will output to your Amp/preamp There are no inputs say to run a cd player But it is a Dac wit rca outputs just add a amp Hope that helps Gaby
Hi, I built two of them, and the bots play for about 20 seconds before stopping. After that, a sound starts, resembling the noise made when plugging and unplugging cables repeatedly. Where could the problem be? Thank you.
From the Moode sight you can click on the protodac and go from there I believe Mark sells the board and parts for cheap like around $65 with descent parts
How do you control the DAC? I see it has only rca output, where is the input? Only from the LAN cable? Sorry if this sounds stupid to ask but I could not find this info online.
I ordered the Philips DAC, but delivery time is about one month, what can I use instead? maybe : IAN CANADA OPA861 fully Balanced Zero Feedback I/V Stage?
@@Gabster1 I had a look already to the builder guide, I can see the schematic of the ProtoDAC PCB, but I can't find the schematic of the TDA1387 module (the Green PCB with 8x TDA1387 and the decoupling/pin7 capacitors)
The eight TDA1387 chips are in parallel, and have individual power supply pin 5 decoupling capacitors and pin 7 capacitors mounted on the bottom of the PCB. See the Builder Guide 2.2 for information on the pin assignments. Pins 7-24, 26, 27 don't connect to anything. Pins 1-4 are I2S with duplicate BCK on pins 2 and 4. Ground is pin 5, Vcc is pin 28. Pin 6 is right channel output, and pin 25 is left channel output.
Hi Gabster, thanks a lot for the great videos about TDA1387. Just a question, what about paralleling two TDA1387 arrays (16x TDA1387) on a ProtoDAC? Thanks :)
You can I started experimenting with it Running it as balanced is complicated but 16 in parallel should be easy on my list to try The Question is will it sound and test better?
I Think you need to double the IV resistor experiment with that as I mentioned I have not done it I was more testing the Balanced possibility try like a 200 ohms IV resistor or better may be combine 2 separate Protodacs I would be curious about your Findings @@marcovizzari681
with 200 ohm I/V resistors the output level decreases, but the distorsion remains. It seems more like a digital distortion, can't understand why..@@Gabster1
ok, I found how to fix the issue using additional 4K7 ohms resistors on the i2s line of the second floor array ;) The output is louder and apparently more dynamic, much better!
It looks really cool and I just ordered one. Thanks for the info. I hear raspberry pies are going to start showing up again at a normal price. Do you have any sources that you would recommend?
I ordered one almost a year ago from Mouser I just got a message that it will ship tomorrow so that is a good sign but it will take a while to balance the market. I suggest you place a order on mouser you can always cancel it
@Brighamdoc If you have a Micro Center near you they’re readily available now, can walk in and grab one for MSRP. Only catch is Limit 1 per customer/day
I'm thinking of buying a dac that's from a big manufacturer, I've watched this and thinking of building one. My question is , is it as good as something 2x, 3x,4x, 5x or 10x the price of build. Any inputs to my question appreciated. Thanks
I think at this price the best is to try it yourself I is not very detailed sound but it does sound beautiful and if you like it you can upgrade it with a fifoQ7 in between similar to the mini ip Hard to put a number we are all different with different systems but if I had to I say 5X
@@Gabster1 thank you so much for replying, I might even build the streamer dac if I can source the parts in UK. I'm very handy with soldering and everything else. I'm sure you had an amplifier build that I watched but can't seem to find it .
@@nhanlieng3243 Ian has a new site you can order direct iancanada.ca/ I have not done a amplifier Build yet and if you are getting the Protodac talk to Mark he can send you all the parts cheaper then buying them
@@Gabster1 There is a list of audio hats in ropieee. Did you choose Raspberry Pi DAC (Generic I2S)? Did you apply phase inversion in Roon as Protodac recommends? Just to mention I had to use -1db correction in Roon because of clipping with dynamic songs. Anyway you were right, this simply thing has potential! Raw implementation with Raspberry PI suffers from power noise and clocks imperfection but sounds very, very promising. I remembered "turntable" sound thanks to it, thousands of dollars needed to hear this with modern dacs.
If you are having clipping I would adj the I/V resistors any eq correction in Roon has a big negative effect on the sound quality same with Volume control and Song auto levelling. Generic I2S works fine phase inversion is up to you I chose not to I doubt you would hear it @@Temp19750118
Another question - instead of protoDAC maybe it would be better to use OPA861 zero feedback ? I heard that protodac is giving around 11bits. What do You think ?
I said this wrongly. I mean if it's way better to invest for OPA and dual mono or the difference is not worth it ? Additionally did you think to make video about comparison protoDAC, dual mono plus OPA , HiFi berry DAC and famous IQaudio DAC - no one test IQaudio with such a clean system yet. It could be a good video for a cheap set.
@@T3kA123 Thedifference is not Big but Dual Mono/Opa is better not sure if you saw this Video I talk a bit on the differences ruclips.net/video/A0Je4SmiNzw/видео.htmlsi=4xoKk__55wyKpr7S
Now it's clear 😊 I'm align with all You videos . I will start with protoDAC plus raspberry , additionally I will compare it with IQaudio hat. ProtoDAC will have jantzen standard z caps 6,8uF. Let You know definitely , tks a lot.
I have the Proto DAC, plus the purePI the fifo Pi Q7, so all, the only thing i am missing are the trebles, especially on spotify, on AirPlay it is much better, i don´t now how to solve the problem with the missing highs, if somebody give me a hint, i would be very happy. Since a few days I have the Mcintosh C500T Preamplifier , which works great on CD, but the Proto DAC makes me a little bit thinking why the trebles are not comming through.
Actually you can provide clean power in other ways what's better is proper/extra capacitors on the Amp power rails No disrespect Paul does sometimes too good of a job pointing to one solution that's not fully effective. By the way this DAC/HAT is selling complete
I'm excited to see that Gaby has a plan. One solution is to use two modules in stereo. Feed one module DATA from I2S and the other inverted DATA. The module receiving inverted DATA will have noninverted signal output in stereo. The other module receiving DATA will have inverted signal output in stereo. Combined you get balanced stereo output. How does one generate noninverted and inverted DATA?
I don't think the TDA1387 is set up to play in mono mode. You would need to do tricks with the I2S signal. For example, by repeating right channel DATA sample twice so that it loads the same DATA to left and right channels of one module with the WS signal. It seems complicated and may not be worth the effort.
@@mark4751 might be something that has to be programmed into the logic, fpga, or dsp chip. I think these type of diy don’t give the builder that capacity to edit the logic of the chip.
Hi Gab, I’m using Ian Canada’s boards (PurePi, Q7 and AES transport) and use ropieee as the Roon bridge. This work’s amazingly faultless and is now my go to setup. What is your configuration to have this DAC recognised by the Roon core? Could I run ropieee for this as well or do I need to use MoOde as the “operating system”? Thanks, great little project for my smaller systems.
These chips use active devices to generate the currents so you need a few of them 8 seems to be better then 4 this way you avoid using a op-amp notice the absence of op amp or transformer.
@@Gabster1 thank you for your reply. I’m going to reread Moode’s site and watch your video a few more times to gain confidence. Any particular raspberry pi? I think I’ve read they are up to version 5 now.
![Lil Uzi Vert - Chill Bae [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/D7F42F_JM3U/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm really greatful that you chose to stick with doing RUclips videos. You're doing an amazing job ☺️
Gaby, I am quite new to your channel. So glad that I found you. I am a retired disabled veteran in the USA. I have loved good music all my life and passed it on to my kids. Two of my 3 children (grown), are musicians. I have always been a DIY, and was an early adopter of technology in my generation. I can't believe I have waited until I am 60 years old (Aug, 26) to get interested in higher quality HiFi. Thanks for all of your videos. You are a wonderful presenter.
Thank you Bobby it is never too late I picked it up a couple years ago after my last Amp build in my early twenties. enjoy the ride
I must agree with Bobby. I love this channel and gabby makes it so interactive which is so unique. Everything you doodle gabby is done with so much passion for the hobby as well as wanting to share your knowledge with the audio community.
Thank you so much.
Thank you for this Video I always wanted to build something easy like this You always have a nice way of presenting DIY in a way that we can all understand.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you @Gabster1 for posting some great DIY stuff. May I make a small suggestion to split your timeline into sections with headers? Its very convenient when we want to revisit a video for enhanced learning. :)
Have you compared this Dac to the one you used in previous videos from Iancanada? Which one do you prefer?
hello Gabby, sending love and peace to everyone...
Thanks Gabster, Great information
I have now the ProtoDac, I also ordered the PuriPi for the first step. Later I will order the FifoPi Q7II. Now in your video I can´t see the separate 5Volt to the ProtoDac. In the description they say, if using the Fifo you must cut the pin 2, 4 from the ProtoDac, is this correct? So if i use later the FifoQ7II i must desolder the whole Proto Dac for cutting pin 2, 4? Thanks for info, Alex
Bonjour du Pérou. Super intéressant. Modi 3 de Schiit pour le moment.
Michel Lapointe
Bonjour Michel
Thanks for this video. I like the way you have done the build. Are there any ideas about a suitable housing? Otherwise the stacked boards will catch dust with the time. What I like is the usage of the proto DAC. Actually I use a simple approach with a Pi zero and a small DAC HAT from Hifiberry. It works but it is far away from high fidelity.
Thanks Gabby. I just got a protodac working with my pi 3. I am running riopeee xl with it. My question. I know the protodac is polarity inverting. Is there anyway to compensate in riopeee? I looked and couldn’t find any. Thank you for all your great videos!
I don’t know of a way, but frankly I would not worry about it should not affect the sound Quality
I was reading through the comments, and I hadn't seen anyone actually describe a sense of what the dac sounded like. You mentioned it sounded really really good, but, is it like a $79 SMSL SU1, some topping product, or more of a vintage sound, warmer with a little resonance. This is the kind of window shopping I enjoy listening and reading about. If anyone could post their experience or impression, I think it'ld be a great thing to share. I stumble into this Gabster room, and have really enjoyed it, Thanks!
Don't let the price guide you on this one the key to better sound compared to the Smsl is good quality power in the form of great regulators Batteries and ultracapacitors also the main one is the best re-clocker by Ian
I think you should also check out the dyi amps and dacs from Newclassd from Denmark. I think you will like them
I would like to thank you for the ProtoDac review, can't wait to build it.
Right now, I am considering how much money to spend on the project..in case I will use the PurePi, does it matter if I power it with IFI Power supply 5V or I can use cheaper PS without some negative effect on the final sound? Thank you for advice
You can power it with a cheap psu you may not notice any difference.
Hi Gaby! Thanks for your videos, I enjoy watching them. I already have an unused rpi4 and ordered the protodac, so I first want to test the most simple build (rpi+protodac)... so I don't throw away money buying a fifopi q7 if I screw up with the soldering of the protodac 😛. I wanted to know if I can use my phone, connected with USB to stream music? Thanks.
For RPI/ProtoDac I would run it on Moode or Ropieee Xl and control it from your phone
To use USB you need a more complicated setup.
Hi Gaby,
I trief to find the CRC caps 10uf 1% 30V but no luck. Do you have a source for these? Or do you have an alternative coming close? Thank you for advice.
Not that I know.
Mark gave me those a long while ago they are vintage I don’t think he has any more you can ask Mark about his new favorite
@@Gabster1 thank you for your kind replizieren, I will try Mark
Amazing stuff!!!
Thanks for the great videos you post. I have s question the batteries on the PurePi. What capacity do they need to be something like 1800mah or more. Thanks for your time
Not really as long as they are 18650 lifepo4 3.2v the mah rating is usually inflated so anything will do hard to find but AliExpress has some
Is there a way to get optical from a computer to work with the protodac?
Surprised the analogue side doesn't pick up loads of noise (EMC) from being so close to the Pi?
Hello Gabby, is it correct that yor dac tda1387 running on pin 2,4 3,3 volt ? thanks Bart.
I would doubt it. RPi GPIO pins 2 and 4 are 5V. Minimum TDA1387 supply voltage is 3.0 . Recommended is 5V.
Hello Gaby. First of all, thank you for this video.
I've done my soldering duty ;) now I have the ProtoDac (copper shielded) on a RPI4 with volume (Qobuz implemented so well) and it sounds pretty good. It is a very enjoying set up. The music is very pleasant to listen to. I want to improve the set up step by step with Ian Canada items. I don't know what I have to do first : FifoPiQ7 of PurePi or other ? What do you think ?
If you can afford both it would be ideal as the Fifopi Q7 will need a good 3.3v that is available on the purePi and this way it will be easy and will open the door for future upgrades
@@Gabster1 Thank you for tour clear and quick answer. I take the advice as I will do both at once.
We just built basically an identical DAC, using the PurePi power supply, Q7 and Protodac module - built with quality components and we're experiencing a harshness in the treble in particular when the dynamics increase. We're using Moode Audio software and have been playing with the settings and can't get rid of it. Sounds like high frequency sibilance. When Miles plays his horn on Sketches of Spain - ahhhh it's not nice, not really terrible terrible but in our highly resolving system we need to push pause - fast! Any ideas what's wrong in the signal path??? We are running the Q7 with our BK DC bench supply because we can't get those darn 3.2v batteries anywhere.
Bench power supplies are not that great if you test them they have a lot of ripple
Clocks are very sensitive
You can get by with common 3.7 v batteries just drain them to 3.4 before putting them in but do get the 3.2 v
Ones.
I had great success from thi AliExpress supplier and lithiumwreks
See the bottom of the description of my latest Dac video
ruclips.net/video/EPV1ON23L0Y/видео.htmlsi=uZ31hkYq6vSc4LVB
Also make sure your IV resistor values are correct as recommended as higher values can cause distortion see the ProtoDac build documents
How that helps
Thanks we couldn't find those batteries anywhere, I'll give the Ali guy a shot. I measured the I/V metal foil resistors before installing them and they came in at 419r / 419r, but I'm wondering if the sibilance we're hearing is being caused by the I/V resistors. I'll pull the BK supply and drop in some batteries and see if the treble improves. If not we'll sweep the unit and see if we can't isolate the distortion. Cheers!
Update, we drained some nice Samsung 3.7v 18650 cells down to 3.3v and ran the Protodac for the first time as designed and wow, 95% of the high frequency sibilance is gone and with most music it exceeds what our Astell & Kern can do. I'm starting to think the recordings that we have high frequency problems with are actually the fault of the digitization. We have a huge collection of high quality digital music and are sampling various audiophile quality recordings and are only hearing the problem on a few recordings.
ProtoDAC is designed to use 5V. Sibilance is probably due to a bad module.
@@ProtoDAC No I think the module is fine, we hear the same sort of sibilance in other dacs. We work professionally in audio and I've basically come to the conclusion that digital audio always has some problems in the high frequencies, some dacs a bit less and some a bit more. As a result of my digital experiments, we decided to invest more heavily on the analogue side, the sonics are just superior in every way to digital. Yes vinyl records can have surface noise and yes reel to reel tape also has tape noise, but and this is a big but, when you compare a good quality piece of recorded music both in digital and analogue the analogue version almost always sounds better and not by a little bit. Now I'm not talking about the modern remastered records that are cut from cd masters, but real AAA recordings (prior to 1982). The one very interesting thing is that digital records made from about 1979 to 1985 can sound amazing, sort of a hybrid between a cd and record, low noise, great dynamics and warmth, with no high frequency issues. But from about 1985 on, that all changes with the invention and adoption of the first digital work desks - from that year onwards digital everything basically sucks the life out of the music.
Hello Gabi, what are exact values of components that were used in your build?
See the links all the values are documented
can i use this kit to build up a bluetooth speaker ??? i know bluetooth downgrades a bit in audio quality, but i have a amp board which sounds horrible. And the big + is, i can add a display with touch to the system for functions like adding a streamurl, or wifi keys and that kind of stuff.
I would just add a amplifier and make a speaker out of it you can control the stream via your phone better then Bluetooth
@@Gabster1 sounds great, i was thinking a bit to complicated. Will these modules also work with a pi 5 / pi 5 pro ?
I just received the ProtoDac. Is it possible to connect Ian Canada's OPA861 I/V hat for analog xlr output to the ProtoDac? Thank you for the video.
No that is not possible as the ProtoDac is already line level that is the beauty of it just use your rca input as long as you are under 4 ft you are fine. You will love it
I tried to get balanced you will need 2 protodacs and a processor to reverse 1 of them by then you lost all the benefits.
Ok, thank you for the reply. @@Gabster1
Ok, thank you for the clarification. @@Gabster1
We're using basically an identical build to yours (running Moode app) and we can't get DSD to play, natively or DoP. If we remove the Q7 from circuit and just stack the Protodac on the Raspberry Pi, DSD plays perfectly. Any ideas? I've contacted IanCanada, but no luck.
See page 9 of the FifoPi Q7 manual I think you need a monitor Pi Pro to disable the DOP but I may be wrong I never tried it.
hope that helps
@@Gabster1 you can turn the DoP off using switch 1, located on the underside of the board. We tried that and nothing. The weird thing is if we pull the Q7 out of circuit and drop the Protodac directly onto the Raspberry Pi, DSD in all resolution and PCM play just fine. But of course we are back to a fair amount of sibilance in the treble, which is almost completely eliminated with the Q7 in circuit. I'm pretty sure we were directly feeding the Protodac DSD using DoP, I can't see how it would work any other way. But Ian says we need to upsample the DSD into PCM to get it to work, which in fact we didn't need to do without the Q7 in circuit.
Did you figure it out? I have a similar issue with the Q7 and Protodac and no audio output.
Q7 (also Q3) provide only 3.3V to GPIO pins 2 and 4, and this cannot be changed. FifoPi MA is also designed to have 3.3V on 2,4, but it can be changed. RPi standard GPIO is 5V on pins 2 and 4. ProtoDAC needs 5V. In order to use Q7, use a stacking header with pins 2 and 4 removed. The apply 5V to the 5V/GND pads between the RCA jacks on ProtoDAC.
I am tying to use a TransportPi Digi as a reclocker, but can’t get any audio out. If I remove it from the stack and just use the Protodac on the pi with moode, all is golden. Any hint on what settings to use with the TransportPi ?
I'm in the U.S., I'm 64, and I can't figure this out. I've got the chip and the raspberry Pi, but the easy tutorial for ordering the PCB, I have no clue to what I'm looking at or what the instructions mean. Step 1, open schematic... can't figure out how to do that. Any easier link available for ordering the board and better parts? Appreciate the patience.
one question: i will get a good DAC from a friend , I have already purepi, fifoQ7, which transport to the DAC you would choose? TransportPi AES, Flagship AES/SPDIF s transport?, or TransportPi Digi/II, ?
If your friends Dac has I2s in a HDMI
Get the HdmiPi pro II if not get the Transport Pi AES
But since you have a Purepi and FifoQ7 already
Your half way to a Gabster TD1 Dac
Just get a I2s to PCM board and a Gabster TD1 Dac and try that and hear the difference for yourself
Gabster TD1 Dac My Favorite of all times
ruclips.net/video/y3MB5W970Ow/видео.html
also I am wondering a little bit, why ist the price difference from the IanCanada versus the european shop very high for example Fifo Q7II 199.- europe: 265.- ???
Something to do with duties vat and some up pricing when buying direct you eliminate the middle man
Dear Gabster, I built one. Unfortunately after powering up in fixed volume mode the sound starts getting hissy and scratchy after 10 to 20 seconds. (the software volume mode doesn`t work at all) I checked the dac over and over, looks ok to me. Is it possible that there is a bad joint in the 1387module, or is it a problem in the Mo0de software? Unfortunately it is not possible to contact mr. Curtis. For the record my Pi 3 with Hifiberry hat works perfectly. What do I need to do?
If you assembled the ProtoDac yourself check for bad connections or shorts between pads
The modules are cheap it is possible you got a bad one try a different module got to be something wrong somewhere
It can also be software I never tried Moode
@@Gabster1 Thanks for the swift answer. I think the most likely cause is indeed a bad module, I ordered two new ones.
A new module did the trick, now it works, an the sound indeed is very good. Thanks for the advice.
Sounds like a timing mismatch between output of the PI and the DAC. Variance doesn't need to be much to eventually cause jitter to get so large that the DAC starts seeing errors causing distortion. Not sure what you would do about it without some test equipment to find the root cause. One thing to so would be to make sure configuration on the PI is correct for bit rate etc.
Hi I like you Chanel a lot Thanks
I have a pi with #20B. TransportPi Digi,Audiophile grade master mode digi transport
And use popieee and roon with a external DAC. Can I use the protodac instead of my external DAC?
Yes you can I believe you can simply plug the protodac on top of the TransportPi Digi as according to the manual Pin 2 and 4 are 5v so simply plug it on top and enjoy the music let me know if it sounds better or not.
Great video. Can you please confirm that this acts as a streamer as well as the DAC?
This will stream from the RPI you will need to install software like Roon, Moode, Volumio….
And the ProtoDac board will output to your Amp/preamp
There are no inputs say to run a cd player
But it is a Dac wit rca outputs just add a amp
Hope that helps
Gaby
Looks great actually
Hi, I built two of them, and the bots play for about 20 seconds before stopping. After that, a sound starts, resembling the noise made when plugging and unplugging cables repeatedly. Where could the problem be? Thank you.
I Would try a different power supply and or a different Rpi could be the power supply or Rpi faulty overheating
@@Gabster1 but i bought raspberi pi pro dac hat and works fine
Hi Gabster, may I know the price of the PCB board...have problems looking for it. Thanks
From the Moode sight you can click on the protodac and go from there
I believe Mark sells the board and parts for cheap like around $65 with descent parts
@@Gabster1 thanks !
How do you control the DAC? I see it has only rca output, where is the input? Only from the LAN cable? Sorry if this sounds stupid to ask but I could not find this info online.
This is a Streamer/Dac so it generates it's own input from your Favorite streaming service Via internet like Spotify , Tidal, ....
Hi Gabby, Am I correct in thinking that you're streaming to the proto dac via the on board raspberry pi using Roopi?
Correct 👍
Hi Gabster, i see that the big caps are 10uF. Wich is the value of the z-foil resistrors? Thank you
mine are 420R depending on your amplifier gain you can adj a bit more or less
hope that helps.
@Gabster1 thank you
Max 430R to prevent clipping at 0dB.
Hi Gabby, can u recomend how todo a diy dac for connect to wiim pro+ as a streamer.
I ordered the Philips DAC, but delivery time is about one month, what can I use instead? maybe : IAN CANADA OPA861 fully Balanced Zero Feedback I/V Stage?
If you are building a Ian streamer just add a dual mono Dac with either a transformer or opa861
@@Gabster1 thanks, no streamer only a "spotify" DAC is my plan
do you have the sepcification of the silver caps used
They are Vintage CRC 10uf 30v
Is there a way to configure this as an external DAC to take an optical or SPDIF input so I can feed it with my Node 2i?
Yes. Need an SPDIF to I2S board, like a DIR9001. You should feed it polarity inverted data.
any change of getting the schematic of the TDA1387 x8 module?
The Builder guide link in the description has a schematic and tons of info
@@Gabster1 I had a look already to the builder guide, I can see the schematic of the ProtoDAC PCB, but I can't find the schematic of the TDA1387 module (the Green PCB with 8x TDA1387 and the decoupling/pin7 capacitors)
The eight TDA1387 chips are in parallel, and have individual power supply pin 5 decoupling capacitors and pin 7 capacitors mounted on the bottom of the PCB. See the Builder Guide 2.2 for information on the pin assignments. Pins 7-24, 26, 27 don't connect to anything. Pins 1-4 are I2S with duplicate BCK on pins 2 and 4. Ground is pin 5, Vcc is pin 28. Pin 6 is right channel output, and pin 25 is left channel output.
Hi Gabster, thanks a lot for the great videos about TDA1387. Just a question, what about paralleling two TDA1387 arrays (16x TDA1387) on a ProtoDAC? Thanks :)
You can I started experimenting with it
Running it as balanced is complicated but 16 in parallel should be easy on my list to try
The Question is will it sound and test better?
@@Gabster1I've tried to piggyback two tda1387 x8 modules in a the ProtoDAC-like circuit, but I get distorted audio, what's wrong with that? Thanks :)
I Think you need to double the IV resistor experiment with that as I mentioned I have not done it I was more testing the Balanced possibility try like a 200 ohms IV resistor or better may be combine 2 separate Protodacs I would be curious about your Findings @@marcovizzari681
with 200 ohm I/V resistors the output level decreases, but the distorsion remains. It seems more like a digital distortion, can't understand why..@@Gabster1
ok, I found how to fix the issue using additional 4K7 ohms resistors on the i2s line of the second floor array ;) The output is louder and apparently more dynamic, much better!
It looks really cool and I just ordered one. Thanks for the info. I hear raspberry pies are going to start showing up again at a normal price. Do you have any sources that you would recommend?
I ordered one almost a year ago from Mouser
I just got a message that it will ship tomorrow so that is a good sign but it will take a while to balance the market. I suggest you place a order on mouser you can always cancel it
@Brighamdoc If you have a Micro Center near you they’re readily available now, can walk in and grab one for MSRP. Only catch is Limit 1 per customer/day
@@adamcian Closest one to me is 550 miles away - punishment for living in beautiful northern Utah - but thanks for the suggestion
Your videos are great
Glad you like them!
I'm thinking of buying a dac that's from a big manufacturer, I've watched this and thinking of building one. My question is , is it as good as something 2x, 3x,4x, 5x or 10x the price of build. Any inputs to my question appreciated. Thanks
I think at this price the best is to try it yourself
I is not very detailed sound but it does sound beautiful and if you like it you can upgrade it with a fifoQ7 in between similar to the mini ip
Hard to put a number we are all different with different systems but if I had to I say 5X
@@Gabster1 thank you so much for replying, I might even build the streamer dac if I can source the parts in UK. I'm very handy with soldering and everything else. I'm sure you had an amplifier build that I watched but can't seem to find it .
@@nhanlieng3243 Ian has a new site you can order direct iancanada.ca/
I have not done a amplifier Build yet
and if you are getting the Protodac talk to Mark he can send you all the parts cheaper then buying them
Hi, have you tried protodac with ropieee? Ropieee documentation doesn't say any about this dac.
Yes that is what I am using no setup needed
@@Gabster1 There is a list of audio hats in ropieee. Did you choose Raspberry Pi DAC (Generic I2S)? Did you apply phase inversion in Roon as Protodac recommends? Just to mention I had to use -1db correction in Roon because of clipping with dynamic songs. Anyway you were right, this simply thing has potential! Raw implementation with Raspberry PI suffers from power noise and clocks imperfection but sounds very, very promising. I remembered "turntable" sound thanks to it, thousands of dollars needed to hear this with modern dacs.
If you are having clipping I would adj the I/V resistors any eq correction in Roon has a big negative effect on the sound quality same with Volume control and Song auto levelling.
Generic I2S works fine
phase inversion is up to you I chose not to I doubt you would hear it @@Temp19750118
Another question - instead of protoDAC maybe it would be better to use OPA861 zero feedback ? I heard that protodac is giving around 11bits. What do You think ?
The dac Chip TDA1387 ( protodac ) Does not need a OPAmp it is Built In
I said this wrongly. I mean if it's way better to invest for OPA and dual mono or the difference is not worth it ?
Additionally did you think to make video about comparison protoDAC, dual mono plus OPA , HiFi berry DAC and famous IQaudio DAC - no one test IQaudio with such a clean system yet. It could be a good video for a cheap set.
@@T3kA123 Thedifference is not Big but Dual Mono/Opa is better not sure if you saw this Video I talk a bit on the differences
ruclips.net/video/A0Je4SmiNzw/видео.htmlsi=4xoKk__55wyKpr7S
Now it's clear 😊 I'm align with all You videos . I will start with protoDAC plus raspberry , additionally I will compare it with IQaudio hat. ProtoDAC will have jantzen standard z caps 6,8uF. Let You know definitely , tks a lot.
I have the Proto DAC, plus the purePI the fifo Pi Q7, so all, the only thing i am missing are the trebles, especially on spotify, on AirPlay it is much better, i don´t now how to solve the problem with the missing highs, if somebody give me a hint, i would be very happy. Since a few days I have the Mcintosh C500T Preamplifier , which works great on CD, but the Proto DAC makes me a little bit thinking why the trebles are not comming through.
Try different capacitors maybe also Spotify is not that great switch to Tidal or Qobuz
Thanks I ordered two Mundorf capacitors, we will see
Hello Gaby. Maybe you could design a DIY power plant like the PS Audio power plant to get the power clean to all devices? Best regards Martin
Actually you can provide clean power in other ways what's better is proper/extra capacitors on the Amp power rails
No disrespect Paul does sometimes too good of a job pointing to one solution that's not fully effective.
By the way this DAC/HAT is selling complete
Can this be built for XLR
thank you
If you just wanted to make a dac only and make it balanced could you get two chips and run each channel in mono?
I am working on this I will post a video if successful
@@Gabster1 awesome I’d love to see a truly balanced each channel differential dual mono.
I'm excited to see that Gaby has a plan. One solution is to use two modules in stereo. Feed one module DATA from I2S and the other inverted DATA. The module receiving inverted DATA will have noninverted signal output in stereo. The other module receiving DATA will have inverted signal output in stereo. Combined you get balanced stereo output. How does one generate noninverted and inverted DATA?
I don't think the TDA1387 is set up to play in mono mode. You would need to do tricks with the I2S signal. For example, by repeating right channel DATA sample twice so that it loads the same DATA to left and right channels of one module with the WS signal. It seems complicated and may not be worth the effort.
@@mark4751 might be something that has to be programmed into the logic, fpga, or dsp chip. I think these type of diy don’t give the builder that capacity to edit the logic of the chip.
Will this play 24/96 and 24/192 FLAC ?
Yes, it will play them. It will truncate 24 bits to 16 bits. Dithering the 16th bit is beneficial. It can play up to 384k bitrate.
Thank you for this very informative video I can see few good uses for this Dac. What type of software are you running on the PI ?
I am running Roon but you can Run MoOde or Volumio
Mark describes in detail how to run it on MoOde in the Builder Guide link below
Hi Gab, I’m using Ian Canada’s boards (PurePi, Q7 and AES transport) and use ropieee as the Roon bridge. This work’s amazingly faultless and is now my go to setup. What is your configuration to have this DAC recognised by the Roon core? Could I run ropieee for this as well or do I need to use MoOde as the “operating system”? Thanks, great little project for my smaller systems.
@@giscardrutten6896 NO configuration at all it is a very simple dac I am running Ropieee / Roon there was nothing to configure
Perfect! Thank you for the clarification. Look into forward to building along with your next project
What’s the benefit of using a 4-chip or 8-chip design over a single chip?
These chips use active devices to generate the currents so you need a few of them 8 seems to be better then 4 this way you avoid using a op-amp notice the absence of op amp or transformer.
@@Gabster1 Thanks! I enjoy your content.
It will work on raspberry pi 4?
Yes that is what I used it on
Do you have any extra PCB's? Maybe you would like to sell and mail one to a fellow Canadian? (I dont need 10 from jlcpcb).
I don’t but check with Mark maybe he does he may also have some kits left you can find his info on his GitHub link
just trying to order a kit. please help!
Try contacting Mark you can get his info from the links in the description
@@Gabster1 I did, no response, I also tried the email provided on Moode website
I’d love to build this but I don’t quite understand the components and then there are other add ons. I try to read about them but it’s Greek to me
You only need a raspberry pi
A ProtoDac see Moode sight and a power supply like the IFi see links in my description
😊
@@Gabster1 thank you for your reply. I’m going to reread Moode’s site and watch your video a few more times to gain confidence. Any particular raspberry pi? I think I’ve read they are up to version 5 now.
First....nice work!
why are my post getting deleted?
why did my post get deleted?
Not sure sometimes RUclips deletes posts with certain links
Cool concept, but I don't really see the point. Even with the best reclocker, a Digione and pretty much any "real" DAC is going to outperform this.
Not in practice, only on paper.`
Have you listened to the DAC? NOS and filterless with completely ugly looking 10kHz sine waves. You did watch the video, right?