Okay, so the more I think about it, and the more you all are convincing me, I do agree that pre DR3 Nagito likely could have been convinced to be a Remnant of Despair. Before DR3, he was perfectly okay with causing despair in order to create a brighter hope, so I can see him being okay with Junko (and in his words, both loving and hating her) because the amount of Despair she'd cause would lead to a hopeful future. BUT since DR3 is canon and he didn't hesitate to try and kill Junko, methinks the writers retconned more than just how everyone fell into despair, they also tweaked Nagito's personality a bit. He immediately tried to snuff out the despair instead of letting it happen to cause the hope later on. So yeah, pre DR3 Nagito could be convinced while post DR3 couldn't which is why he needed to be brainwashed.
I think Junko would've been able to persuade Nagito by letting him witness Hopes Peak fall. And we could see in Sdr2 chapter 0 and in the epilogue of Ultra despair girls, that he still despises despair and Junko but will still aid despair in the hopes (lol) of getting an even greater hope. I have too many thought sorry :)
@@jeppeaksrensen8316 that's an option as well! Though I still think even seeing Hopes Peak fall, he would think of it as a phoenix in that it's fallen now, but it'll rise again to an even bigger hope sort of thing. But yeah, Nagito turning to Despair for the sake of hope, I can see that x3
@@TheArtisticAloubell I would also point out. That the Nagito we meet in DR2 is the version of him that hasn’t yet gone to Hope’s Peak. The character in the DR3 anime has gone through a blink and you’ll miss it arc. After spending some time with his classmates he’s willing to cause trouble so they specifically wouldn’t be burdened by those upcoming talent exams while the events of the “Twilight Syndrome” case weighed heavily on their minds(Not to mention Chiaki’s probable growing concern for Hajime). Previous Nagito would have maybe encouraged them to succeed or do their best, but would just excuse any failure as just a stepping stone for them to overcome. Instead he comes up with a plan to forcibly cancel the exams. After his plan both succeed and failed due to his luck he pretty much excepts the possibility of expulsion, since he believes himself to be trash especially compared to his classmates. But he shocked that Chisa actually cares for and stands up for him. While he doesn’t change his world view completely he has them challenged which allows him to grow. To the point he could even see himself become a symbol of hope, or even the ultimate hope by stopping Junko. Mirroring a less destructive development he had in DR2. Edit: 🐻 great video btw
@@oreotaku4017 That is a FANTASTIC observation! Thanks for sharing! I also gotta say, I tolerated DR3 Nagito MUCH more than DR2 Nagito--heck, DR3 Nagito even got a laugh out of me at some point. It's only when Nagito is under stress and gets in his crazy mood that I can't stand him (the self-deprecation is also annoying). So since those two traits are toned WAY down in DR3, I minded him a lot less haha And your observation probably contributes to that! X3
I 100% agree with you. Junko in 1 & 2 seemed like a bigger threat than she was shown to be in 3 (not v3!). I honestly would’ve preferred where she manipulated most, but brainwashed the few that refused to fall. I just imagine Junko and Mukuro sneaking into the reserve course to then spread rumors and lies about Hope’s Peak and wish that had happened. In episode 1 of the Despair arc we see that each of the students have their own practicing space. Why not use those places again and have Junko do something to convert them. As an example: why not convert Sonia by saying that she will never be a good queen, Gundham doesn’t actually love her, her people hate her, etc. Then, when she is done take her to Gundham and Kazuichi, who, with a little bit extra prodding regarding their talents, will fall into despair at seeing Sonia’s state. The rest of the classmates I believe could have been done like this. Especially the ones who fall into pairs like Peko & Fuyuhiko, Mahiro & Hiyoko, and Akane & Nekomaru. I can see Nagito being manipulated in some twisted way into believing what he is doing is for hope. Sorry this is so long just wanted to share my thoughts. Also Despair bear! God bless!
That's what I wanted to see too :( In 1 and 2 they seemed to be going for the angle that she was a master at mind reading with way too much charisma, and always knew exactly what to say to make you fall to her feet. Then came "nope, brainwashing video for all" and I was ಠ_ಠ
@@naolucillerandom5280 Even with the brainwashing video, Junko is still super threatening...just not AS threatening lol I still wouldn't want to mess with her haha
I think Sonia would better have been manipulated through seduction- she’s a thrill-seeking character with a flair for the romantic and the dramatic, so I can see Junko emulating that. There’s an element of relatability between them (blue-eyed blondes with “taboo” interests, are thought to be more dumb than they are, constantly sexualised and taking it in stride etc), and Junko’s dangerous and charismatic enough to just totally draw Sonia in. Remember that part of Sonia’s despair purpose was to effectively lead a country to ruin, so rather than Junko telling her she’d be an awful queen, I think she’d say the opposite, she’s better than her parents etc. Her despair comes from caring about her people and willingly leading them to war/execution. Junko would be sweet all the way up until Sonia had fooled herself into doing this, and that’s where she would completely unravel and descend into despair. I don’t think she would ever stop being sweet to her, just she would pepper in more negging moments, more ignoring Sonia for other people and pursuits, and more criticism and vague insults- but Junko switches regularly, so she’d go back to the honeymoon phase just long enough to get her hopes up, just enough to keep her jumping through hoops to always see that side until she learns to love the bad parts more. That’s how I see Junko as an agent of despair. Not a scientific brainwashed, but a charming master-manipulator. Her main method is seduction, and everyone falls for her romantically or not regardless of who it is.
“The story, the characters, the art style, the music, THIS GUY” *shows picture of Kokichi* Glad you got into the anime and games as well! Even after learning Junko just used brainwashing videos, she still seemed like kind of a badass character. Sure, the brainwashing was very generic, but it’s the way she did it that it worked. Like class 77b, she let them built up hope with Chiaki before crashing it down with her despair by executing her in front of all of them. Just my opinion though, as I still haven’t finished up the anime, great video overall!
XD Oh yeah for sure! Junko is still a huge threat and one of the most entertaining villains ever (imo). Just cuz I lost a little respect for her doesn't mean I lost all of it. She's still top tier to me haha It takes a certain kind of person to do what she did and it still took a lot of manipulation to make that whole execution effective. She's still the center of the biggest, most awful, most tragic event in human history and she wouldn't have been able to if she weren't capable. She still gets a lot of respect from me haha
I think it would have been cool if she manipulated everyone, except Nagito. It'd be cool to watch her go mad and desperate because she just can't convince him. Then she resorts to her last option: brainwashing.
Oh yeah definitely. It’s be funnier since Nagito would probably be the easiest to manipulate to her side. So it’s be funny if she tried to get him to her side but each time his luck just prevents it from happening the way she wants it to and so she gives up, grows desperate and mad and goes the brainwashing route
she would probably get obsessed with the despair she feels trying to convince him but failing too. It would be really cool because then theres like a mutal junko and nagito bond they have going on about hating but loving the other for what the other gives them. Nagito would give her despair and Junko would give him hope. (the sdr2 version of him that likes stepping stones to glory yada yada yada)
I think nagito joined her out of trying to immerse himself in despair as much as possible so that a much, much greater hope would come out of it. He seemed mostly the same in UDG although with even more of an obsession with this ideology
I think the writers drastically changed their plan between sdr2 and dr3. In sdr2, you can see reasons in the casts backstories why theyd turn to despair-tsumiki and tanakas abusive backgrounds, komaeda and nidas terminal illnesses, like 5 students who lost a friend/family member during twilight syndrome. Chiaki was also obviously meant to be just and ai and not human. In udg komaeda straight up tells you that he joined despair bc if hope will win either way he wants to increase the despair so more hope will come and defeat it. But then in dr3 they nerf monacas arc that they were hinting towards and launch her into space. And they make chiaki a real person and the rese of the sdr2s casts storyline revolve around her. We throw away basically everyones tragic backstories and pretend that everyone was just peachy until chiaki died. Hajimes arc of feeling inferior without talent and being desperate to feel special gets reduced to wanting to impress a girl. We barely see the reserve course interact with the ultumates so he is now "special" just by virtue of knowing chiaki, and instead now his motivation is wanting to fit in with her friends. Even in dr0 the reserve course was building up a cult around despair after seeing how hopes peak handled the student council killing game and they did nothing with it. Just attached the video to a clip of ppl dying and everyone goes insane A main theme in dr is that despair spreads like a disease. Junko didnt even have to meet everyone in the sdr2 cast to make them all worship her. We see close bonds between some of the students that could easily make one turn to despair after the other has, like pekoyama and kuzuryuu. We could even have had some scenes where some in the reserve course werent onboard with despair but were forced into by their classmates, which was hinted to be the case for the kids of towa city. Mob mentality at play could have explained why so many ppl turned to despair, and fits with the theme more than thr brainwashing video. Basically the brainwashing was nothing more than a lazy plot device and the dr team has a great setup from sdr2 and udg that they should have used instead of a lot of new plotpoints they introduced in the anime for shock value
I personally only started to like Monaca after DR3 lol I thought it was funny how she gave up on hope it despair and went to space. Like me, she got annoyed with Nagito XD I don't think Hajime's arc totally revolved around Chiaki. He was already insecure before that and especially when Juzo called him out for being basic. Wanting to fit in with Chiaki was certainly a factor that tipped him over the edge, but he was already on his way there. He was never quite happy being a reserve student. And it wasn't just Chiaki dying that turned them to despair. On it's own, they would have been fine. Grieving, but fine. It's the brainwashing video that warped them. It was similar to how the teacher needed an extra stimulus for her to be warped as well. But ultimately, yes, there are some characters Junko could have influenced directly without needing the brainwashing video. Others she might have needed it for. I do agree tho that, based off of some characters dialogue, the DR team did change their mind on how this happened. So it's a bit of a retcon.
@@TheArtisticAloubell monaca is kind of like junko for me in that i hate her as a person but i think shes a good character and villain. Her space neet thing was funny but after how intense udg was i hoped theyd do something more with her. Might just be me though. Ye hajimes arc didnt completely revolve around chiaki but a good part of it did which kind of bothered me. It would be different if he also became friends with the other sdr2 kids but it seemed like his only point of reference for actual talent was chiaki. Sure juzo insulted him for not being an ultimate and tenzin was manipulating him into becoming kamakura, but hajime wanting talent in dr3 feels less like he wants it because hes insecure about other peoples views of him, like in sdr2, and more like he cares about chiakis views on him, which is less interesting. It feels like they wanted to spend all their time developing chiaki/yukizome/mitarai and had no screentime left to show the sdr2s casts descent into despair. I personally think chiaki is a more meaningful character as just an ai than as a human and it would also make the ending of sdr2 more meaningful, but either way the brainwashing video and her death should only be the catalyst for everyone falling into despair at most. Have the anime show everyone struggling with their own problems and have the video be the thing that breaks them. They werent able to develop the new characters to the same extent as students we spend an entire 50 hour game with so they ended up being bland, and they spent so much time on the new characters so we didnt see much of the characters we did know. Its kind of the worst of both worlds lol
8:28 Actually, imo, I don’t really think it’s that far-fetched to wonder how Junko could’ve theoretically manipulated Nagito into becoming a part of Ultimate Despair. In fact, I think he was one of the easier ones for people to have wrapped their heads around, especially compared to someone like, I dunno, Ibuki? Even if Nagito and Junko seem like complete opposites with the hope and despair thing, they both have pretty similar mentalities. To have despair, you first need hope and vice versa. The greater the hope, the greater the despair (and vice versa). Both go hand in hand. Disregarding the brainwashing video plot point in DR3, we’re already shown in DR2 that Nagito is willing to bring despair as long as it creates even more hope in the end, just that he had his limits. In UDG, you kind of see these limits getting breached, when he says he is willing to even become despair for the sake of hope. It would’ve been pretty plausible that Junko was the one who manipulated him into breaching those limits of his, recruiting him into Ultimate Despair. In that case, Nagito could’ve seen Junko as someone who could bring forth even more opportunities for hope, being the embodiment of despair, which is why he says that he both loves and hates her more than anyone else in the epilogue of UDG. Most of my thoughts are based on weebynewz’s video that she made before dr3 came out that I thought was a completely believable explanation for how Nagito fell into despair. Nope, I’m not original. ruclips.net/video/B8Q88U-_pYo/видео.html
You bring up a good point! So the more I think about it, and the more you all are convincing me, I do agree that pre DR3 Nagito likely could have been convinced to be a Remnant of Despair. Before DR3, he was perfectly okay with causing despair in order to create a brighter hope, so I can see him being okay with Junko (and in his words, both loving and hating her) because the amount of Despair she'd cause would lead to a hopeful future. BUT since DR3 is canon and he didn't hesitate to try and kill Junko, methinks the writers retconned more than just how everyone fell into despair, they also tweaked Nagito's personality a bit. He immediately tried to snuff out the despair instead of letting it happen to cause the hope later on. So yeah, pre DR3 Nagito could be convinced while post DR3 couldn't which is why he needed to be brainwashed.
@@TheArtisticAloubell Then again, Nagito can be a giant hypocrite sometimes so maybe he was shooting his shot at becoming hope himself, like he does in Chapter 5? Trying to become more than just a stepping stone. But to my memory there’s nothing to imply this in the anime and his actions in Chapter 5 did require very extreme circumstances (and martyring his own life), so it’s more likely that his writing just got bungled lol. There’s another instance of this in DR3 where Nagito gets into a plane (he’s implied to, the plane is crashed already though). But in the game Nagito is visibly panicked just by seeing a jet plane because of the trauma of his parents dying in a plane. So the writers just? Forgot how his parents died?? It’s a little bit of a funny oversight.
I think the best line would be to go through nagito and his whole thing of "despair must exist so that hope can conquer it and become stronger". As in, Junko could have planted that thought into his mind and then the absurd luck could have explained some other plot holes maybe. One could even make nagito be the anti-hero with the thought ačready there, no brainwashing needed, he could just seek her out himself and he's be a much stronger antagonist even in the plot. It could have been a revela at the end of dr2, a final plot twist? idk, just an idea
That would have been neat! Upon further stewing, I realized Nagito probably could be won over to the despair side when, as you said, you can convince him that this ultimate despair is needed for ultimate hope. So I could definitely see your idea happening! X3
I loved this video, really put my disappointment of the brainwashing plot into words. By any chance, are you interested in playing and/or analysing the Danganronpa Another series? It's a fangame created by Linuj that's praised for it's good writing. I haven't seen anyone make a video about it before so that would be really cool to see! Thank you! Despair bear ~
Thank you for watching and for your interest! ^_^ I don't currently have plans to review fan series, but I have heard of it! Who knows, maybe one day! ^_^
I agree that the whole death cult thing among the reserve students was really out there, but the situation with class 77 seemed less like just brainwashing, and more like emotionally destroying them. A combination of trauma and guilt, since they themselves walked right into the trap, broke them completely. And someone like that is way easier to manipulate. But I think the truth of the scenario is that they needed a reason for mitirai to be there and be important
I definitely see your point! And it is very valid. Although I still consider it brainwashing/hypnotism given that Mitarai was attempting to do the exact opposite: brainwash the world so that everyone is peaceful and happy (SOLEY through watching the animation and nothing else). They phrased it like he had the power to control people with his animations to behave exactly how he wants them to. That's very brainwashy haha
Despair Bear 🐻 Also, another good example of the Rule of Cool is when Mulan cuts her hair with that iconic song, and also the classic scene where a character is about to get killed but their friend/ally comes to save them in that EXACT moment (because they can’t save them while the scary music is still playing 🙄) Also. I will never understand how Peko and Fuyuhiko didn’t turn crazy when Natsumi died but they did with Chiaki (who never actually had a proper interaction with them)
My take on it is that it was cooler to assume originally when playing the second game that Junko was intelligent enough to manipulate everyone in the class to follow her. However, that was when the game could just get away with implying that’s what she did. In the Dangonronpa 3 anime they actually had to show how she did that, and since it would have been incredibly difficult for Junko to have done so, it would have also been difficult to write her doing so convincingly. My guess is that the creator did not have confidence enough to convincingly write Junko being able to manipulate everyone, and so he just went with the far easier route and used brainwashing.
Had some of the dialogue been a bit different in DR2, then the brainwashing thing wouldn't have been so much of a surprise. Like, Junko at the end of DR2 said that the reserve course students were all madly in love with her which is why they died for her. But then we learn they were brainwashed. So there was definitely retcons that happened. There was an official Danganranpa novel that showed a "what if" story that showed us Mukuro's personality. But then the DR3 anime happened and her personality is different from what we thought. So there was a definite lack of planning when all of this was happening lol
@@TheArtisticAloubell I’m quite glad they didn’t imply brainwashing though. Part of why that trial made me love her more than I already did was that very implication. She’s also a lot more easy-going in that trial, more natural, less chaotic (less suicidal)? so you get a better sense of her actual personality and actual thoughts process. In the first game’s last trial, it seemed like she was constantly guarding her true intentions and emotions and her true self, a little more batshit than usual from killing her sister and spending weeks alone in front of monitors, trying to keep up the enigmatic persona in a broadcast to the entire world. So although I know a lot of people weren’t happy she came back in the second game, diminished the significance of her death etc, I’m happy she did, just so we got more context and more (as we thought) canon elements to her real personality. I kinda view her and the anime version as separate entities lol. I think even the voices the VAs give them highlight the contrast between them.
What really bothers me about DR3 is how Nagito knew who Junko was??? Like, he just stumbled upon her and was like, "you must be despair." How did he know? Was he making baseless accusations and trusted his luck to accuse the right person? Sure, a hidden room is sketchy, but is it sketchy enough to know she's despair? It confuses me thinking about it.
0:09 Ok that's it. I'm subscribing. Obviously kokichi is one of the things to love about danganronpa. (Feel free to disagree. It's fine. He is a very controversial character after all)
I never quite understood why people were so shocked class 77 could so easily fall into despair. Of course, the brutal things we see class 77 do as part of the Ultimate Despair are entirely unimaginable, even for example Kuzuryuu descending so low as to replace his own eye with Enoshima’s. But class 77 has much darker backstories than class 78 or V3’s class. Consider, just from the examples you pull up at 2:49, Nidai has a countdown timer on his life due to his illness. That’s a weak point Enoshima could’ve manipulated (this is arguably weak). Komaeda was willing to create great Despair in the name of hope. As you can see in SDR2, even before Komaeda was brainwashed he was willing and able to do absolutely insane things as long as you put him in a dire situation. For Komaeda, all Enoshima might have to do is plunge the world into despair to begin with. Once Komaeda sees how easily Enoshima put the world into despair, he could be convinced to attack the world in the name of providing a reason for them to create hope. Mioda was constantly abandoned by everyone. Despite her title as the Ultimate Musician (or more accurately, the Ultimate Light Music Club Member), none of her previous band liked Mioda’s music taste enough to allow her to stick around. That’s been the trend of Mioda’s life; abandonment because no one can handle her true self. Class 77 wasn’t innocent. I don’t get why everyone insists they were. It’d have been a perfectly reasonable story to have them fall into despair one by one, with Komaeda being the last to do so, and have Mitarai have something similar to his canon methods by using the despair brainwashing technology on the reserve course to have them do what they did. After all, no one can expect a satisfying explanation that makes sense in how Enoshima was able to convince 2,300~ students into committing mass suicide. But 16 students she spent a year with? Definitely could happen.
My idea on how Junko got Nagito to despair is by getting him to believe that Hope will come that’s big enough to destroy the despair especially if there’s more of it
Danganronpa is very meta at its core, either by commeting on japanese High School (and it's tropes) in the first game, Games in general in the second, or Danganronpa in general in v3. With that i think it's fairly obvious that with the hypnosis-anime and Mitarai being a key character, they wanted to show the power of anime like they have showed the power of hope/games/fiction in the other games. Idk tho and i'm open for debates :D
That's a very interesting thought and cool analysis! I think Danganranpa is very smart in a lot of ways, but it's not perfect. You can definitely tell that some things were planned out versus others that weren't and even retconned so that things could make sense. Regardless, it's still a really fun story x3
arguable i think komaeda would have been one of the easiest to become a remnant of despair, in ultra despairs girls where we get to see him as one he states since hope always wins it doesn’t matter what side he’s on, and even in the game we see he’s willing to make despairful situations for the students to overcome and have their hopes rise even higher because of it
Very fair! I do agree that pre DR3 Nagito likely could have been convinced to be a Remnant of Despair. Before DR3, he was perfectly okay with causing despair in order to create a brighter hope, so I can see him being okay with Junko (and in his words, both loving and hating her) because the amount of Despair she'd cause would lead to a hopeful future. BUT since DR3 is canon and he didn't hesitate to try and kill Junko, methinks the writers retconned more than just how everyone fell into despair, they also tweaked Nagito's personality a bit. He immediately tried to snuff out the despair instead of letting it happen to cause the hope later on. So yeah, pre DR3 Nagito could be convinced while post DR3 couldn't which is why he needed to be brainwashed.
the best example of rule of cool was the first 3 volumes of RWBY, realistically Ruby should not be able to hack through grimm like that, however you suspend your disbelief since the fight choreography was stunning (again first 3 volumes)
I didnt realize it was carocine he was using I thought it was some pich or something. To me the scene that is more rule of cuule in the second movie after the skelet one, is one of the bandits being hit in by many bricks thrown from like 5 stories down at him and not only surviving but being able to get up and do anything other than lying on the pavement cry in pain till the ambulance get him.
Personally I was okay with Junko manipulating everyone since we’ve seen Ultimate talents get pretty extreme and unrealistic at times before (eg Makoto & Nagito’s luck) so it wasn’t that weird that the Ultimate Despair could convince people
The more I see discussions about DR3, the more I think that both Despair and Future Arcs deserved at least 24 episodes EACH. 11-12 episodes just wasn't enough to develop a good DR story. I believe the main reason they came up with the brainwashing plot was because if Junko were to individually manipulate every Class 77-B student it would take at least one entire episode for each of them (except for Peko, because she just follows Fuyuhiko). And if Future Arc had more episodes, they could've actually developed the new characters and made us care about them. I would've much preferred to see Junko manipulating some of the SDR2 characters in ways that might seen like a big stretch over the less cool, and even less realistic, brainwashing shenanigans.
I agree--we could have gotten ESPECIALLY a lot more time during the Despair Arc. Not only spend more time with class 77-B, but also see some of the school life of our friends from THH.
I kinda liked the idea of Junko brainwashing the remnants of despair, tbh. She'd be way too OP if she convinced them solely through manipulation. It shows that not even Junko can be that powerful in terms of manipulation and charm. I know Danganronpa isn't the most realistic, but I think it adds lots of juicy stuff. Plus, it added some interesting lore to the anime
YEAH! It's unrealistic for her to be able to get to everyone personally like that, and that would be more impressive. But brainwashing is more believable.
I honestly kind of wish they hadn’t made the anime, I get that there were a bunch of loose ends that they felt needed tying up but idk,,, the only thing I liked about the anime was hope arc just because I was so happy to see class 77B again and well, alive. To me, what made Junko so frightening was that she was doing all of this crazy stuff that no one should have the means to do, and in the games they deliberately avoid explaining how she did it! Like in the first game when Junko reveals that she erased their school memories, obviously the survivors ask how the heck she did it, and the answer is that it doesn’t matter how she did it, all that matters is that it happened. A similar response is given when Junko is asked why she does what she does, and while the anime does develop why she’d want despair, we largely don’t get a backstory, and that’s because would her backstory actually matter? She’s done so many awful things that no backstory could ever really serve as enough of an excuse or explanation, so it doesn’t matter. It’s not content they need to include because it won’t change anything about Junko or how we see her. Even if it’s majorly tragic there is nothing that could excuse her behaviour, and so leaving it a mystery is honestly best because it adds to the overall wackiness of Junko’s character, and leaving things open-ended for player interpretation is always an interesting thing to do. As for the brainwashing,,,, yeah, not a fan. I can see it being a last resort for the most good-natured or hope-loving students of class 77B, but the big bad reveal was just,,,, brainwashing?? Yeah, not much hype there. That’s another reason why I said I kind of wish the anime didn’t exist, as I don’t believe there is a good enough explanation for how she managed to turn the cast of SDR2 into ultimate despair. I know it’s not satisfying to not know but again, I don’t know if the methods really matter so much, as what’s done is done. The method being brainwashing was just. Ugh. Not the best. If they really had to include an explanation, I would have preferred for Junko to break all of their spirits individually. I think she could have managed it for every student of 77B, save chiaki who would have to die regardless since it’s already established she doesn’t exist in reality anymore in SDR2 and,,,,, Him. It’s not so much that I don’t believe Junko couldn’t try to break nagito’s spirit, nor do I believe he’s actually just too resilient and optimistic to fall to despair like makoto. No, I just don’t think Nagito could be fazed by anything Junko would do to him. He’s already lost everything he ever could. And even if she killed chiaki in front of him or showed him the tape of it, without the added brainwashing, I don’t think he’d fall to despair. He’d see it as a stepping stone, a potential for hope to overcome despair, and, to be frank, he’s dealt with worse than the death of his class president, even if she was really nice. I can buy Junko reasoning with him, telling him that he could help create a bigger despair than ever before by becoming ultimate despair and thus allowing ultimate hope to overcome it, but that isn’t what happens, and even then I doubt he’d want the “ultimate despair” moniker attached to him. The anime does Nagito disservices though, by muddling his already very complex characterization. I love the way Nagito is written, I do, and I haven’t actually watched all the anime bc why would I want to do that, but the idea that he’d just straight up try to kill Junko is plausible at the surface level, as in he hates despair and all that, killing the ultimate despair will create ultimate hope, blah blah blah. But it DOESN’T work if you need a reason for Nagito to join ultimate despair. Heck, Nagito is one of the people who tries the hardest to make Monaca succeed Junko so that she can create more despair and be overcome. The idea that Nagito would try to kill Junko only to then decide she’s better off alive so that she can be defeated when she’s committed more atrocities is contradictory, and while you could argue that nagito’s characterization is contradictory in and of itself, it really isn’t, his worldview makes perfect sense coupled with his backstory and talent. I am glad though that, the game at least mentions that Nagito, even when he’s ultimate despair, says that he hates Junko, which does prove that Junko was not able to quash his love for hope. It is clear though that Nagito does feel the same twisted admiration for her that the other despairs do, though for him it’s pretty clearly because her existence allows for ultimate hope to rise against her. Literally that’s why the killing Junko before she barely does anything scene is so annoying to me, because everything else makes perfect sense with nagito’s character. God this was long and the order probably doesn’t make sense but it’s 2:30 am and I could literally rant about the characterization of Nagito Komaeda for hours
i personally believe that the brainwashing video for the reserve course is perfect and the only time it should’ve been used. not only did it prove how versatile and powerful certain talents could be (ryota mitarai making the despair video actually induce emotion in the viewer), but the underappreciated reserve course students realizing that they were used by the school they believed in for horrible things like a killing game and human experimentation would DEFINITELY throw someone into despair and hopelessness with the world around you. you’re not special, you were used by the school you believed in, and this school that everyone in your country and possibly the world hails as a place to produce superstars was practicing next level lobotomy. this is a perfect example of brainwashing with junko’s talents. however, junko working to manipulate the 77th class ON HER OWN would be amazing, plus nagito has already shown that he would join the side of despair if he was convinced it would produce a magnificent hope. nagito and her working together while also despising each other would be much more interesting. also, chiaki dying twice in the series was stupid in my opinion. it felt like both were two parts of a better execution. in sdr2, if chiaki had died trying to save her classmates or something like in the anime, it would’ve created something more emotional, similar to how peko died, and her coming back to convince hajime in his weird mindspace was sort of pushing the whole “it’s a game!” gag
I'm not a big fan of any of the Danganronpa animes- I feel like they're way better at telling stories through games rather than animation because they can't put as much story into animation because of the lack of budget, time, etc
@@TheArtisticAloubell the thing I just find off for me, other then how Junko's way of brainwashing people in the anime is how V3 ended. I mean, the game was good maybe not as good as 1 and 2, but I didn't exactly like that everytime there's a villain in the game it always had to be Junko. Even with the Ultimate Cosplayer, she basically became the 53rd version of Junko 😑 I mean ok yes Junko is great but I wish for a new villain. Especially considering that it turned out that there's 53 games/seasons of Danganronpa. I'm sad that Danganronpa is over (well for now perhaps), but I definitely enjoyed the series (even with its faults in both the games and anime)
@@abby-cadabby Honestly, I'm still convinced that Tsumugi was lying about Danganranpa just being a game. She's a liar so it's totally possible most of what she said was lies. But yeah, her only gimmick was that she could turn into other people. She herself wasn't as good of a villain, to me, as Junko or Monaca.
The drawing is nice, I don't watch Danganronpa, but some parts of it sound interesting. I don't think it's something that I would get into because I don't really watch anime, and I don't really enjoy things that have a lot of dark plot points (Unless I can find at least on piece of wholesome content, or the story has more interesting elements. I don't mean to make it sound like Danganronpa doesn't have those things, I just don't know if it has those things, and I feel like it would be too intense for me anyway.) I think the video had a lot of good points, and I could understand what you were talking about without being in the Danganronpa fandom, so I think you did a good job. 🐻
can we just appreciate how she replies to every comment!? plus the timestamps and amount of effort that she puts into her videos! Also I would love to see more Danganronpa content cause i agree its a really cool game and there's a lot to look into it ^^
If it had been my call, I think I would have made it so that Junko used the VR technology introduced in Danganronpa 2 to trap each of her classmates in a private Hell and broke them mentally to the point that they embraced her philosophy. Not as impressive as her voice alone bringing them to her side but more impressive than a glorified hypnoscreen doing it.
I like the "cooler" way because danganronpa is supposed to be weird as heck and it works! I love over the top villians with impossible goals and especially when those goals are achieved at one point (and then taken away from them ofc) I never finnished watching the danganronpa anime because I didn't like it and before seeing this video I thought Junko did all of this herself and I'm disappointed 😔 But not as disappointed as I was with V3s ending! If you know you know
I don't think brainwashing Komaeda would be that hard, to be honest. He already loves causing despair just so some abstract hope can show itself later. Komaeda himself explains it in UDG. Junko only needed to exacerbate that. He would still claim to be in the side of hope, but in practice he wouldn't. Regarding Junko, I think she's just a villain sue, although I can't deny she was really enjoyable to watch in the anime. But it was annoying how the plot constantly contorted itself to make her look good. She just "knew" a lot of top secret stuff that could be of use to her, but never explained how she gained that knowledge (for example, she knew about the Kamukura project for no reason), she had a lot of practical knowledge she shouldn't have (programming and brainwashing, plus being a better clairvoyant than the ultimate clairvoyant himself) and she got away with everything so easily despite never trying to cover her tracks. She literally got away with throwing a grenade from the window of a limousine in the middle of a highway. And she also got a secret base on the school for no reason. And even though people claim she is a top tier manipulator, all her "Great Manipulations" happen offscreen. Every time she tried to manipulate someone to the side of despair onscreen she failed miserably even though she had a massive advantage due to the state of the world. I think having her manipulate everyone would have been way more interesting than just some dumb brainwashing, though it would have required the anime to be much longer, probably. tl;dr: Yeah, rule of cool was abused to make Junko look good, but it made me lose respect for her as a villain. However, she still should have manipulated people into her side as that concept has way bigger potential than plain brainwashing. She still is very fun to watch, though.
Huh! I've never heard of a villain sue before, but you make excellent points! I don't think I ever really questions how she got the information she had XD Though I think its implied that she has connections everywhere due to her wealth and charisma. BUT who's to say?
Huh! I've never heard of a villain sue before, but you make excellent points! I don't think I ever really questions how she got the information she had XD Though I think its implied that she has connections everywhere due to her wealth and charisma. BUT who's to say?
@@TheArtisticAloubell actually in Danganronpa zero light noveli think it’s was it, well first spoilers. Also I didn’t read the novel so I can’t give everything I know but basics I found. it showed her original talent before she became model Junko was the ultimate analyst so it makes sense in how she predicted and manipulated things. She also became a model because her talent as an analytical prowess helped her predict trends Also the wealth and charisma of being a model would aid her. And probably why she chose to use her prowess to help her gain that talent
🐻❄️🐻 In addition to how Enoshima’s actions can be criticized, Mitarai’s can be looked at as well. It doesn’t make sense that Mitarai would sit on his “Hope” video for 2 whole years of The Tragedy. Like, yes it sucked that he has to flee from Enoshima, but he was clearly outmatched against her and all the Reserve Course students who wanted to tear an Super High-School Level student limb from limb. I know that animations can take years, that’s usually with longer ones. The Hope brainwashing video to counteract Enoshima’s Despair one couldn’t have been longer than a couple minutes (I’d say 10 max), but the even bigger issue with the Despair video was that it was mostly the snuff film of the Student Council’s short killing game. There were edits made, but I can’t imagine Enoshima made Mitarai animate over it, as in drawing lines over the snuff film, y’know? I mean, because people who watched it clearly realized it was of real life people dying. What I’m trying to say is, Mitarai taking as long as he did to make a Hope video and to even propose the idea to Naegi or the rest of the Future Foundation was absurd, and even if he’d went through with it, he’d have been no better than Enoshima. The video also affected people at inconsistent paces. Tsumiki and the Reserve Department caved really quickly, but Class 77 B took quite awhile, and it was really Nanami’s death that sealed the deal. Idk, I could go on a whole rant about this, but as you said, what’s done is done. The anime is already have a decade old lol, and at the very least I can appreciate that one of the classes got a happier ending.
DespairBear! I really enjoyed danganronpa and I never knew there was this controversy. lol😅 Edit: now that I think about it, it's probably because I never talked about danganronpa to anyone
My biggest problem with Danganronpa 3 is how it wastes the potential of several of the characters, I mean, Monaka had so much potential as the main villain of the future arc, but the writers blew it
As someone who found Monaca pretty underwhelming and kind of boring in UDG (compared to Junko) I actually liked the 180 heel turn and how wacky they made her. Yes, I could have been disappointed, and I understand why some people are, but I just welcomed her being more entertaining lol
I’ll think it would’ve been better overall though if Chiaki and most of the Hijime stuff wasn’t there (especially since they make really big retcons in order for their stories to function) and give more empathies on how Junko got her plan succeed while having her actually experience difficulties and figure it out how to deal with these issues for her plan to succeed rather having everything handed to her and everything issue that would’ve effected her plan worked itself out.
I personally liked the Chiaki Hajime stuff (and as a Chiaki fan, more Chiaki means a win for me). I think the biggest problem was time. Only getting 12 episodes wasn't enough time to flesh out everything. The Despair arc could have easily been its own 26 episode anime.
It never really thought about it up until now since I more played the games than watched the anime, but I knew all the important parts that happened in DR3. And I have to agree: the brainwashing makes things a bit more realistic, but the idea of Junko Enoshima, the one who started "The Biggest, Most Awful, Most Tragic Event in Human History", the causer of the world's worst despair, being a mere teenager who used her endlessly great intelligence and charming charisma to manipulate those she needed to do her bidding without hesitation does sound more 'cool', or more impressive as Aloubell puts it. I understand completely that though she could blackmail and convince others to join her side or agree to her orders, especially Class 77-B, perhaps those like the trembling and always stuttering Mikan Tsumiki, the exhausted, the timid and asocial Ryota Mitorai as we do see happen, but the rest of the class? I find that pretty hard to believe. With some more convincing, maybe others might follow suit or be tricked to fall too far to be helped, but a lot of them like the loud, motivational Nekomaru Nidai, the biggest hope enthusiast Nagito Komaeda and many others would be a hell lot more resistant and see through her act. Perhaps some could be manipulated and the ones she simply can't seem to get to wrap around her finger, Junko can just use the brainwashing video on? Have their beloved class rep Chiaki Nanami executed in front of their eyes and perhaps with the help of those manipulated already? That could work. If you want a good idea of how this could work, I saw a short Danganronpa comic called Rock Bottom here on RUclips showing the cheery and hyperactive Ibuki Mioda down in the dumps about people despising her new music after leaving the band she was in before and the comments bringing her down further and further into her own self-pity and frustration. But don't worry! A certain someone is ready to help her spread her music and make everyone love it and her! (If u wanna check it out, here's the link: ruclips.net/video/IptOfIX0xKE/видео.html )
As a fan of Danganronpa, and having seeing the complete unabridged history of Danganronpa. I love/hate Junko. I think she's an interesting character but her love of despair is a little much. The way she murdered Mukuro in THH was brutal, even for her. She wanted to feel despair herself, so she diverted from the og plan. So *boom* spears of gungnir. But did Junko really have to do that to herself? She had so many more opportunities to cause despair for herself later on. There's a huge connection between the games, THH, SDR2 and DRV3, *spoilers for DRV3: Killing Harmony* that they each have their own despair lover, THH has Junko, SDR2 has Nagito and DRV3 has Tsumugi, and technically also Korekiyo. You could argue Tsumugi doesn't love despair, but the idea of causing it for entertainment, hence why she is part of Team Danganronpa. Korekiyo causes despair in a different way, thinking those who he killed would be friends for his beloved sister in the afterlife. But going back to Junko and the SDR2 babies, having them watch Chiaki be her execution guinea pig and be brutally killed in a maze was sad. Chiaki was a precious baby who deserved better. Yes, she succeeded in causing mass despair in one action, but at what cost? That whole class lost the personalities that made them loveable. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk
I personally pretend that Dr3 never happened and that it isn't cannon even if it is because it just ruined everything it tried to do while also rewriting charcaters to be worse off ;-; much like V3
I personally like the DR3 anime. It had some missteps, and the Junko thing just made things more controversial and complex, but if it weren't for the anime, we wouldn't have Chisa, we wouldn't have more Chiaki or Gundham, and we wouldn't have had 100% confirmation that our peeps from Class 77-B are all alive. Plus the future side gave Aoi great character development and it was enjoyable seeing her and Makoto's friendship since that wasn't all that apparent in the first game/anime. That being said, I do have critiques haha The disappointment from the brainwashing being one of them. V3...I don't hate it, but I don't love it either. It gave me Kokichi so I can't be mad at it lol. I like to think the ending of V3 was one huge lie that Tsumugi told haha
@@TheArtisticAloubell I don't dislike v3 due to its ending unlike others I've seen I dislike it due to the (imo of course) extremely flat 1dimentional cast which you would assume we're written by a 15 year old fan for their fangame rather then the actual person behind the first 3 games I like v3's ui style but like most stuff was really just not enjoyable for me I liked the ending frankly because the only realistic way v3 would be cannon which explains the too flat to be close to real cast is if was fictional Without DR3 more stuff would be left to questions with for example their true fates not being known and I really like that approach For example How Hajime got turned into Izuru was really REALLY downplayed much like everything serious that was established in DR2 we would still have Chiaki but just the Ai verson which I would be happy with as the concept of one of the students not being a actually real but they still got just as much love by others unknowing of their nature amazing and I feel like DR3 kinda ruined that by showing chiaki was a actual person (I would let it slide if she was more different then her AI verson but..... she's literally the same) The way junko brainwashed everyone was also downplayed heavenly Most of the DR3 characters weren't memorable for me at all I don't even know any of their names on the top of my head Don't even get me started on how much the Anime Butchered Mukuro and her Relationship with junko (she was already really expanded on in the books And in a good way which are also cannon they literally could have used that as a base but nope they decided to ruin it) The entire deathgame in Hope ark is literally "Hey zero escape can I copy your homework?" "oh, sure bro just change it up a bit so it's not obvious" I mean yeah they're owned by the same company so they have every single right to do that but I wish they came up with something Original The Kyoko fakeouts also got old extremely quick For me i have to literally needlefind good stuff about the anime which is buried under the haystack which is everything else (We got DR 2.5 due to the animes existence and that's honestly the only good thing I can give it) I don't wanna go into a lot of detail with V3 because I don't want this comment to get extremely long so sorry about that
@@SamiTheAnxiousBean I honestly don't care either way if at the end what Tsumugi said was true, but here's my interpretation of the ending of V3: Tsumugi was partially lying and partially telling the truth about how the world was. The truth was that the kids in the death game volunteered and had their memories wiped and were given ultimate talents and personalities and they volunteered to be a part of the death game. It was also true that this 53rd game took place years into the future. BUT I think Tsumugi is lying about the Danganronpa games being fictional. I think that on account of her so called "cos-pox." She proved to us that she can change her skin color in the blink of an eye, so its not outside of reason that she can make herself pink to make it look like she can't cosplay as real people. Going off of that logic, the first two games were real, but after years of peace, the world got bored and started the killing game just to spice things up again. That's my interpretation anyway haha V3 is my least favorite game though, for sure. It feels so distractingly detached from the overal DR story. I didn't dislike it, I just didn't like it as much. As for DR3, yeah, they definitely retconned stuff in order to make its story happen. I'm kind of annoyed about Mukuro as well (I also don't like what they did with her character design in DR3). I wouldn't mind her personality as much if I didn't discover that she was different in prior media, so that was a weird change. Granted, it was still entertaining, to me, to see her and Junko interact in an anime. I admittedly wasn't a fan of the death game in the future arc. Considering most of the players could fight back, AND considering it didn't even go by the same rules of the original killing games, it didn't even feel like Danganronpa. Not to mention the lack of Monokuma. I was surprised that I ended up caring about some of the new characters despite not having much time with them. Chisa was the teacher of the DR2 class btw. Aside from her, I didn't care about any of the new characters more than the old characters. You make perfectly valid points, though!
@@TheArtisticAloubell I like the ending making danganronpa fictional but I feel like I wouldn't like the ending if the Cast was actually likable A said prior the cast (especially in their English rewrites) are extremely one dimentional and flat with everyone except the main 4 (Shuichi, Maki, Kaito and Kokichi) having zero actual development or memorability in the slightest other then their catchphrases they blurt out every other line Every single character can be described in 4 words or less I'm personally not the biggest fan of Kokichi simply because he feels like a poor attempt to recreate what Nagito was in DR2 which was really badly executed but worked reguardless because the mob didn't really care about charcater quality and would rather just headcannon their own complete rewrite of the character which honestly.... at that point you don't like the charcater (not assuming you're one of those fans I need to make this clear) But yeah as said before V3 feels way more diluted , toned down and dry compared to the other games and feels more like a Fangame then a actual game (which is also off since actual fangames like Shattered Hope, DRA:2 and Edens garden are ironically better written with a more memorable cast compared to V3) also about the "The death game in DR3 didn't feel like a danganronpa game" thing, that's because it literally isn't It's the base game concept of Zero Escape (minus the doors) but also unrelated im glad we are actually having a peaceful convo about this tbh you don't see that very much with the modern DR fandom unfortunutely ;-;
@@SamiTheAnxiousBean Aside from those main 4, I'd also make the argument that Himiko had some character development too. Sure, she says her catchphrase a lot, but it oddly never got on my nerves haha. Like I said in my character tier list video, she grew on me over time. But ultimately, I agree with you that most characters in V3 feel very surface level. I'm not a fan of Nagito in the least bit as he got on my last nerve, and I was ready to dislike Kokichi cuz so many people warned that "if you dislike Nagito then you'll REALLY dislike Kokichi." So I was prepared. But I was pleasantly surprised and ended up loving him. He was very entertaining and smart to me. But I understand how some people may not like him. I disagree in him being a Nagito clone as they do act differently and have different yet similar motivations. He definitely shares the same role as Byakuya and Nagito in being the troublemaker, but I think he brings his own flair to it. I respect your opinion, though ^_^ We at least agree that V3 is weaker than the other games haha I'm sorry you've had bad experiences with other DR fans >__< But I too am grateful for how civil this conversation is!
i think she wouldn't have enough time to manipulate everyone cause her talent yea she can basically out maneuver everyone (besides makoto and nagito cause how can you plan for sudden bouts of luck), what if a ultimate mastermind came along she would've have to compete with them hell i think the mastermind talent basically overshadows analyst. heck what if someone came along with similar if not same talent as her but isn't fucked up like her.
I’ve always considered it torture over brainwashing. She traumatised them then set them up to spiral in the exact way she wanted, which is definitely manipulating even if it’s distant. Despair isn’t really sadness after all, it’s the void of any hope. They didn’t have to “join” her they just had to lose the desire to save themselves. The tragedy was there to stop them from getting enough peace to heal and gave them complex-ptsd.
I definitely see your point! And it is very valid. And I'm sure the torture didn't help the situation! Although I still consider it brainwashing/hypnotism given that Mitarai was attempting to do the exact opposite: brainwash the world so that everyone is peaceful and happy (SOLEY through watching the animation and nothing else). They phrased it like he had the power to control people with his animations to behave exactly how he wants them to. That's very brainwashy haha
@@TheArtisticAloubell I believe they were basing it on how media can manipulate its audience. It wasn’t JUST the animation that broke the reserve course it was the video recordings of the student council massacre mixed into it. The hope video though makes absolutely no sense but that one has nothing to do with junko, that was mitarai.
I think the reason why many fans hated the "realistic" reason is that Danganronpa is kinda built on suspension of disbelief. It's unrealistic that Mondo turns into butter after his execution but it's cool and wacky like the rest of the franchise so we let it slide. It's not weird to believe that mastermind-ultimate despair Junko Enoshima manipulated the SDR2 cast because: A) that would be attributed/lead to her Ultimate title, B) that's how shes been characterized from the start, and C) that's just how the Danganronpa universe works. *Like the SDR2 executions are super realistic and totally make sense but the person who is meant to be the embodiment of despair masterfully manipulating even the most hopeful people into dispair is too far. /sarcastic *
Ha,hard question,but I think cool root is better - it leaves more to imagination,more to think about,to make you wander and seeking the answer to how she did it.Its honestly a lot funnier if you give this fandom your time and brain power,and for a series with a consistant fandom-base and fanats I think it would be better.And yes - Despair bear.Thou - I'm on the side of Lies)
I lile the rule of cool when it is done well plus expanding how something is done take away the mystery of the story and I like figuring things out for myself yes I watched the entire video 🐻 Until next time we are all part of a never ending story 😁
🐻I LOVE your analysis of this! Never really thought about this to much. But something sat wrong with me about the anime.. it just felt- off. So now I understand why!
IMO, characterization and tone are more important than a story being reaIistic. If a story has the tone to justify it (and it definitely seems Iike danganronpa does... though aII I know about it is from my friends who Iike it) then it doesn't matter if it couId happen in the reaI worId. There are pIenty of stories that have earned a heavy amount of suspension of disbelief. If peopIe can read minds and fIy and traveI through time, why can't someone manipuIate anyone they pIease into doing their bidding? It's just another part of the mythos that stories create. I personaIIy aIways thought 'ruIe of cooI' was a positive thing, 'if it's cooI and fun and fits the story why not have this certain thing happen?'. But I do see how for some peopIe it couId ruin immersion- Iike you said, it's about a happy medium. The first option sacrificed reaIism for characterization, the second sacrificed characterization for reaIism. The happy medium you suggested seems Iike the best option, where mind controI is just one of many tooIs she uses. From my outsider perspective, the mind controI thing feeIs very cheap... Iike the whoIe reveaI that these characters you Iove couId do horribIe things is such a great moment and it kinda gets ruined when you say that 'oh they didn't actuaIIy *choose* to do that'.
I actually think it’s more realistic to assume she would manipulate everybody. Brainwashing requires technology that’s just a bit too sci-fi (though arguably, Monokuma and the executions are too), and it kind of perverts the idea of hope vs despair in the first place. It cheapens them as genuine ideologies with genuine reasons and thought processes and _free will_ behind them and makes them weak tools with no sentiment behind them. Sure, Junko isn’t above playing dirty, but she’d consider converting everyone to despair as a game, and even if her games are extremely cruel and sometimes unfair, there is always a chance, however slim, to get out of it if you think hard enough. But class 77 aren’t given a chance to think. At all. That’s not something Junko would do. And I suppose yeah, you could argue that not giving any free will with no option but despair is despair-inducing, but it fails to provide the challenge Junko craves. Depriving herself of that challenge might also be despair-inducing, but a game isn’t a game unless you have a chance of losing. Either way, despair she’ll achieve despair- whether because she wins and an entire class has abandoned all hope, or because she loses and gets to experience the despair of failing. Brainwashing guarantees that she will win. She’s deliberately closing off an avenue of her despair to strengthen her hope of achieving her goal. Although hope is inevitable when you want despair (as she and Nagito well knows), tipping the scales too much in hope’s favour would disgust her. It’s boring and predictable. Junko strives to be shutting but. There was a fanfic on Ibuki’s descent into despair. It centred around her role in Natsumi’s and Sato’s death and the guilt she felt surrounding it. It was pretty well-written and brought in some interesting headcanons. There was another one I saw on Peko and Fuyuhiko’s descent into despair which perfectly encapsulated how Junko would go about ensuring that. Nekomaru only has a couple of years to live, I read somewhere cuz of how buff he is and steroids and stuff. Even if he’s pretty positive, it wouldn’t take a lot to convince him that everything was pointless and there was no hope for him.
If we look at all of the technology in Danganronpa, the brainwashing isn't that out there or too sci-fi. Like you said, we have Monokuma and the executions, but also we have all of the different robots in Ultra Despair Girls, the mind control technology also in ultra despair girls, Alter Ego, Junko Alter Ego, the Neo World Program in itself, and whatever they are using in the first game to wipe everyone's memories. Danganronpa might not be in the sci-fi genre, but there is some pretty advanced technology used throughout the story. I definitely see what you mean by the brainwashing being kind of cheap for the story, but it's still more realistic than Junko having the power to manipulate literally everyone who isn't Makoto. Makoto CAN'T be the only one she can't get to, that's just absurd. Probability wise, there should be others who can resist her and there should be at least a couple of them in class 77b. While, yes, brainwashing does seem too easy and not a challenge for Junko, we could at least say that BECAUSE its too easy, she only used it on a few people and not on the entire world like Mitarai was planning. Junko does like a challenge, which is why she didn't go crazy using the brainwashing. It's probably also why she didn't try too hard to kill Makoto at first even though she always knew he'd be a problem.
Counter point, the brainwashing makes less sense. I don't know if i missed something, but Junko described it as rewiring their brains to function like her, which is wrong based on Nagito's dialogue in the boat and his actions as the servant and Mikan in chapter 3, also how would a video be able to brainwash anyway, Junko did the brainwashing video on her own using Mitarai(?) Technique, except he didn't show her how to rewire the human brain, and wouldn't it make more sense to ask Hajime as Izuru to show her instead of using Mitarai anyway? I know the manipulation part may seem hard to belevie but it actually makes more sense, heck, wanna know how she could have convinced Nagito? She could have taunted him, the boy is dying from terminal illness and just wants someone to love before he dies, she could have used that against him or something. Manipulation isn't just "come with me, play my games" it's way more complicated and when the whole world is in a tragedy, why wouldn't she be able to manipulate class 77b? Let's not forget about the whoke tragedy thing guys! Also if you can just show someone a video to brainwash them, why manipulate ANYONE?? Show Juzo the video, show the warriors of hope the video, show Towa the video, show Mitarai the video, show everyone the video. Class77b have the most fucked up backstories and i find it hard to belevie people as skilled as them would just stare at the video like dumbasses, don't even tell me they couldn't look away, Mahiru clearly turned her head after it had been going on for a while. It's not logical, it's bad writing, then again it IS danganronpa and the series is no stranger to that * coughs in every chapter 3s* Even if it gave answers, an interesting mystery is better than a bullshit answer Sorry if it just sounds like im ranting about the anime but i just hate it so much
Unless we are operating under the assumption that Makoto is the only person unable to be swayed by her charms, I find it hard to believe she'd get all of class 77b AND the entire reserve course to follow in her despair lead regardless of circumstance. I don't care how charismatic and intelligent she is, or what tragedy is happening, there's no way she's getting everyone on her side. After thinking it over, I can think of how she'd win over Nagito, but some others I pause on. Plus, with everything she was planning, she didn't have enough time to dedicate to manipulating everyone individually. Junko is also super SUPER intelligent. Remember that she was able to repurpose Chihiro's AI program for herself by herself. She was able to understand what Mitarai was doing in her videos just by watching it a couple times (this was explained in DR3). I can't explain why she didn't just use the video on everyone, but if I had to guess, maybe it was too easy and she wanted a challenge. We know for a fact Junko likes to challenge herself given she gave herself a fake deadline in DR2 and she allowed Makoto to live before they were all trapped in the school. And we know she loves unpredictability, so it would probably be boring and too easy to just brainwash everyone. Even Mitarai considered brainwashing everyone for the good, so surely Junko considered it for evil but decided not to. So I think the brainwashing is more realistic BUT I will admit that the execution (i.e. the writing) wasn't the best. There were inconsistencies between DR2, DRIf, and DR3 that suggest soft retcons in order to make the DR3 story work. Ultimately, I do respect your opinion! But I'm of the mind that the brainwashing makes more sense. Its certainly less exciting, but it makes more sense (and if it were written better, maybe more people would be for it. But alas, even I am not totally satisfied by it).
@@TheArtisticAloubell you got a great point, i honestly think that the brainwashing would have been great had she used it on the reserve course, but not class 77b. They were the big bad ultimate despairs after all, what's the challenge in brainwashing them? Maybe execute Chiaki to make them feel absolute despair, brainwash the reserve course with it, and then manipulate 77b into embarrassing the despair they got. I don't think anyone would be mad about the reserve course getting brainwashed since Hajime isn't there anymore and Sato & Natsumi are too dead to be involved. It also explains how she managed to manipulate 77b (especially Ibuki), they were feeling the most despair they've ever had from watching Chiaki, their hope, get brutally executed. It seems like a good middle ground. I am especially salty about the brainwashing because it ruins dr2, the whole point of the final trail was that "btw ya'll are a group of dangerous terrorist lmfao". And since the anime brought back the dead characters, what are the stakes? Im glad they're back but had they been ultimate despairs of their own free will, then there would have been weight to the ending. They have to live with what they've done and better themselves
Missed watching your vids, I had school things to do so now I'm binging them all So about the time stamp mid-video, You mean chloe's butler when he got angry or junko's fursona?
I'm surprise that no one brought this up here (at least from what I can see) but, I'll say it here. This will contain spoiler. I think (along with many other) that the Danganronpa Team should've sells the Danganronpa Zero novel. Based on what I've seen on this video, I think you haven't heard of Danganronpa Zero. (if you have then, my bad, although I think you should've included it in this video!) Danganronpa Zero is a canon novel written by Kazutaka Kodaka. The story plot is the following; "Ryoko Otonashi, a student who, as a result of "The Tragedy", has anterograde amnesia (the inability to form new memories) and has short-term memory loss. Overseen by the school's Ultimate Neurologist and her childhood sweetheart Yasuke Matsuda, Ryoko becomes embroiled in a vast conspiracy within Hope's Peak Academy, involving the mysterious Izuru Kamukura and "Despair Sisters" Junko Enoshima and Mukuro Ikusaba, as "The Parade" protests arise outside." Spolier Alerts; Ryoko is actually Junko, brainwashed. The story dead ass explain hoe the brainwashing work in the world of Danganronpa and it been shown in the story as well since Junko predicts that she was going to get brainwashed and one of best despair to feel (according to her) is being betrayed by a love one (which was achieved). Some story elements in Danganronpa Zero can explain thing in Danganronpa 2: Goodbye Despair and Danganronpa 3 anime. Actually, Kodaka recommends to gamers to read Danganronpa Zero before playing the second game as quote "finalized the larger world of Danganronpa, [which] led to the creation of the second game." So, why have no one ever talk's about Danganronpa Zero often? Unfortunately, Danganronpa Zero was only released in Japan and never gotten an official English translation. Most translation anyone will find is fan translation. If Danganronpa Zero was released with an English translation then people will likely not only read it but find some of the thing in Danganronpa 3 anime make more sense. Actually, I think Danganronpa 3 should've definitely adapted the novel a lot more. That kind of why so many people were mixed with the 3 anime since not having to read Zero would make Junko less cool (at least in my opinion).
Oh wow! That's very fascinating about the novel! Thanks for sharing! However, I never actually said that brainwashing isn't logical to the Danganronpa world or that its out of place. It fits perfectly well with the technology and shenanigans at play. I was simply presenting the idea of whether or not the more realistic option, brainwashing, was a better idea to go with rather than the "cool" option of Junko individually manipulating everyone ^_^
I think Junko mind controlling them makes her even cooler. The reason she manipulated Ryotawas to have him creat a hypnosis animation, basically game ending 2- well more like 16 birds with one stone. This really shows how manipulative and intelligent she is, if she can influence someone to do something as big as that because she knows it will make things easier (allowing her to focus on other parts of her despair plan), than that just proves how cool she is.
I wouldn’t mind the brainwashing if there was a bit more to it. Like over the course of the show Junko slowly manipulated each classmate & use brainwashing as the final blow. But in the end it looks like the brainwashing was mostly there because the writers thought there weren’t enough episodes to do that so they coped out to brainwashing.
After first Ronpa and novel - i really didnt lost my respect for Junko. First Ronpa already established, that she can use something like that. She wiped out momery of her classmates after all.
I'm not doubting her ability to do the brainwashing, the question of the video was just exploring which option was better? thinking she brainwashed everyone to cause the tragedy? Or causing the tragedy by her manipulating everyone individually?
@@TheArtisticAloubell And i'm saying - they already explore that kind of her side. She already manipulate one person to take his tools and use in her schemes and this isnt unbelivable scenarion, because there always was the hints of brainwashing (kids in AE, for example) So, at the moment they realise anime i already has no doubt that this might be the case. There is a better question in this anime - how they made a belivable for Junko thing so laughable. They use brainwashing anime - this what is baffles many people from my circle and myself. It's just from "25's frame" conspiracy noncence and bad anime writing isnt even helping. The problem isnt in "rule of cool" and "awww, she isnt convensed everyone personally?". Anime itself is a problem. Writing is just bad.
Oh btw since you like kokichi and like danganronpa as a whole I'd really like to recommend a free game that is similar to danganronpa (but better in my opinion) it could be played on the browser even on your phone. It's called your turn to die. Death game by majority I'd really love to see your opinions on it and the characters are more realistic and complex.
Yeah, I think with me personally the DR3 anime was not well written, how Junko was handle and just a lot of retcons were made for this anime; I think the concept of Despair Side and Future Side can work if written well (I'd give it 24 episodes each) and could of been something great but instead were left with an anime that did not appease anyone. If I had to choose between the 'rule of cool' and the realistic option, I'd go with a bit of both myself but not in the way the anime handle it. The rule of cool - gaslight and manipulate those of Class 77-B or other people, cause horrible events like Twilight Syndrome Murder Case around them and let the characters own flaws be there downfall - like in the games where the blacken's own flaws/trauma/vices were there downfall thus suffer the consequences via Executions and even blackmail those that would get in Junko's way (Juzo) or use brainwashing against those that are strong willed or can't be manipulated easily (Chisa, Ibuki, Nekomaru, Nagito and a few others), even the idea of the Reserve Course getting pissed that there money was being use for a project, even how the video could go viral and knowing mass media/internet and Hope's Peak being such a well known school, it could cause people to act in the name of hope or despair. Hope: Seeing Izuru Kamukura, the Ultimate Hope kill someone could inspire them to kill. Despair: Seeing symbols of hope, Ultimates - dying could show people they can kill people for talent and attacking others. Realistic option - use the brainwashing anime as a last resort, like the brainwashing could have the students kill themselves and also using brainwashing on Class 77-B to make sure the despair actually stuck since DR0 has brought up brainwashing so we can apply that, just like in UDG where the kids wearing helmets are being mind control thus the kids really have no control over there actions and counting that Monaca Towa look up to her big sis, makes way too much sense. These are just some examples in what I would of change and that way it appeases those that want the 'rule of cool' and the realistic option and there are changes I would of made to the anime but that's about it.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts! You made some good points ^_^ I'm still 50/50 on which I prefer more, the cool or the real here, but I think, overall, it would have been best for them to at least not have retconned stuff. That's when the story starts to fall apart a bit haha
@@TheArtisticAloubell Yeah, personally I do try to go with a middle ground myself when it comes to Danganronpa 3 for the 'rule of cool' or being real. I do think that there were stuff retcon to make Junko's plan work when it shouldn't have or stuff just didn't make any sense at all, or some that seem really weird especially given what the games/spin off/novel gave us.
I think people fails to see how interesting Junko's whole plan actually is because they focus too much on how she adquired the remnants of despair. They were just a (very small) part of the puzzle in her entire (and way bigger) plan. A plan that included getting connections to specific people in order to get the pieces she needed to make her plan work at wider scale (like Monaka and Towa Group, Yasuke Matsuda, class 77, Mitarai, etc) , creating a huge riot with the reserve course students to hide her own actions in the school, the development of technology and memory experiments that she even applied on herself in order to develop her plan even further, a prototype of killing game with the members of the student council and the nullification of people that could be a threat for her entire plan (like Munakata and his allies, the trustees of Hope's peak academy, etc) and much more. What makes Junko cool (while also making her plan quite clever and realistic), is to see how she uses her very high intellect to identify people and talents that could be of use to her to make her plan progress smoothly by putting those individuals under her control. She does this through two main methods: Exploiting the weakness or secrets of others in order to force them to cooperate (like with Juzo) or make them act in the way she wants them without them even knowing. And more often, by identifying what other people consider their hope and turning that into their biggest despair. Mitarai wanted to use his animation techniques to bring hope to the world and that's why she used his work to cause the exact opposite. Hope's peak created Izuru as the Ultimate Hope and used exactly that to turn everyone against them by calling out the human experiments and use if the foundings getting from the reserve course. Chiaki became the person that turned the entire class 77 (that at the beginning didn't even spend time with each other) into a really united group even after Chisa was gone. She quite literally became the center (and the hope) that kept class 77 together. That's why she used Chiaki's death and Ryota's animation techniques to engrave that feeling of despair over her death into their minds. And as shown with Chisa the animation techniques also makes them create a correlation between The way Junko manipulated and brainwashed others was a part of a way bigger plan that she thought right from the beginning when she first noticed the despair that losing a love one can cause in someone (this is shown in DR0). And the way she got the remnants of despair wasn't s retcon at all. It was hinted/highly implied in DR0 and with the brainwashing technology shown in UDG. Even Naegi states that they were brainwashed in DR2.
Don't get me wrong, I never thought Junko wasn't threatening and intelligent. Even with the brainwashing, she still had to make all of that happen to even get to that point. Junko is no one to mess with. The literal only flaw to her plan was not knowing how to deal with Makoto. However, while how she acquired the remnants technically isn't important to the overall story, A LOT of us were interested in how she went about corrupting them to the point where it became important to us. For me, personally, the story isn't broken dependent on how she did it, but it is something that got me thinking enough to where I cared enough about it. Junko was already a threat, but how exactly she got all of these parts to move does play a factor in just how cool or high of a threat she is. And yes, Makoto did mention they got brainwashed, but because the term "brainwash" is kind of up for interpretation of what they mean by brainwash, MANY people assumed she manipulated the students one by one into falling into despair, which made fans respect her even more. So when they learned that it was a mass brainwashing, they were disappointed. Also, there is a slight retcon in there. AI Junko said that the reserve department was massively in love with her and all killed themselves for her, when, in reality, they all just watched that video and offed themselves. So...that doesn't totally align with what she said. BUT I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU that regardless, Junko is no one to play around with and she is super calculated in all she does.
@@TheArtisticAloubell But that's the point. The idea of Junko's manipulation being based on her convincing them to essentially "turn to the dark side" just with words was a missconception created by fans. The story from UDG with the brainwashing technology, the experiments from DR0 and Makoto's comments about them being brainwashed (right before a game that literally shows to the fans the existence of brainwashing technology in the franchise) were all things leading up to how they got brainwashed using such technology. It wasn't really up for interpretation. Junko did however manipulated characters just with personality alone into helping her like her childhood friend Yasuke Matsuda, Mukuro, Monaka and the warriors of hope and even Izuru Kamukura. And this is specially important to point out because for her these people were the ones that actually mattered to personally convince since they were essential to achieve the (way bigger) aspects of her plan to make the world fall into despair. The remnants of despair were a very small part of her plan compared to what she got from any of these people: an army of robots and founding from a mega corporation, brainwashing technology, the means to blackmail the trustees of an entire elite school by convincing their artificial pseudo god to work along her, etc). And as stated in SDR2 she was able to achieve her plan thanks to the fact that she was able to create connections (like the ones I just mentioned) that allowed her to neutralize people that could've potentially be a threath for her plan (Like Munakata, Yuuto Kamishiro, Jin and Kyoko Kirigiri etc). Most of her work happened in the shadows precisely to avoid detection and using people that she put as her pawns to make her plan go as she wanted ( like Chisa, Juzo, etc).
@@giboit. you make a really good point! Though it all circles back to the fans--especially the ones who never read DR0. Most fans misinterpreted what DR2 meant by "brainwashing" and thus the controversy began because what actually happened didn't live up to expectations. It might be a small detail, but people latched onto that detail and they latched HARD. Especially for the people who love the DR2 cast. They wondered how their favorite characters fell from grace and so that became super huge and important to so many people. So when DR3 happened, they, and me to some extent, were a bit disappointed. Maybe unjustly so, but disappointed nonetheless. Tho like I said in my video, overall, the brainwashing makes more sense to me than her individually convincing each student to turn to despair.
@@TheArtisticAloubell I get that some fans never read DR0 but even like that there was a whole game showing the existence of brainwashing technology in the story, which is what surprised me because it´s something that some fans decided to collectively ignore somehow XD. In my opinion, it was a mix of (partially) fans not paying enough attention to the story as well the result of the "UDG is just a spin-off" bandwagon that caused the issue. Even if some fans didn´t read DR0, in UDG you´ll notice that the story there just is as important as the one from the other games. Since that game literally explains/connects (and also foreshadows) many really important plot points related to DR1, SDR2 and of course, of the DR3 anime as well. The DR3 anime didn´t fail to live up to what was actually leading up at all. It showed exactly what the story (up to that point) previously foreshadowed. I get the fans got dissapointed due to the misconception that they created for themselves. But at the end of the day I just think that some people blaming the DR3 anime of bad writing for "retconing" how the students from class 77 became the remnants of despair is not something fair. Since Junko brainwashing them one by one was never what was intended to begin with and the plot points for the existence of the brainwashing technology used to make them fall into despair was there all along. And I get that they´re fan favorites but I also think that many people seriously missed out on how complex and bigger in scale Junko´s plan actually was when they focus only in the remnants of despair. Even Junko herself doesn´t think that much of them other than being special servants that she just happened to be able to create while she carried out her plan to spread despair to the world. All of it by gathering in the shadows specific people like pieces in a puzzle and predicting their actions to make them do what she needed, turning them into pawns and using them to make her plan a reality. And I find pretty cool how she developed technology that allowed her to put the worse kind of despair (the death of a love one) something that she even experimented on herself to prove its effectiveness into the minds of others permanently. Basically making them extensions of herself. Which is essentially what the students class 77 basically became by the end of DR3.
Tbh yes the dumb video sounds so ridiculous. Like the “you’re being brainwashed” conspiracy thing. There’s no way. Even I wanted to see the video of ultimate despair vs the ultimate hope. It sounded so dumb and made all human characters seem like dumb monkeys. In D1 it was believable even Makoto fell on despair of sorts and everyone from the class. The world ending while their families were nowhere to be found and had to stay on the school to be safe. The second being and showing the flaws of hopes peak and how f up the class system is on the society where even a rich kid who is good would get abused and treated badly just to fight the talent mold. Then the anime f it up cause lol.
So far your turn to die also has a perfect story too. (It's a free game that could be played on the browser on any device. It's a lot like danganronpa.)
Okay, so the more I think about it, and the more you all are convincing me, I do agree that pre DR3 Nagito likely could have been convinced to be a Remnant of Despair. Before DR3, he was perfectly okay with causing despair in order to create a brighter hope, so I can see him being okay with Junko (and in his words, both loving and hating her) because the amount of Despair she'd cause would lead to a hopeful future.
BUT since DR3 is canon and he didn't hesitate to try and kill Junko, methinks the writers retconned more than just how everyone fell into despair, they also tweaked Nagito's personality a bit. He immediately tried to snuff out the despair instead of letting it happen to cause the hope later on.
So yeah, pre DR3 Nagito could be convinced while post DR3 couldn't which is why he needed to be brainwashed.
I think Junko would've been able to persuade Nagito by letting him witness Hopes Peak fall. And we could see in Sdr2 chapter 0 and in the epilogue of Ultra despair girls, that he still despises despair and Junko but will still aid despair in the hopes (lol) of getting an even greater hope.
I have too many thought sorry :)
@@jeppeaksrensen8316 that's an option as well! Though I still think even seeing Hopes Peak fall, he would think of it as a phoenix in that it's fallen now, but it'll rise again to an even bigger hope sort of thing. But yeah, Nagito turning to Despair for the sake of hope, I can see that x3
@@TheArtisticAloubell I would also point out. That the Nagito we meet in DR2 is the version of him that hasn’t yet gone to Hope’s Peak. The character in the DR3 anime has gone through a blink and you’ll miss it arc.
After spending some time with his classmates he’s willing to cause trouble so they specifically wouldn’t be burdened by those upcoming talent exams while the events of the “Twilight Syndrome” case weighed heavily on their minds(Not to mention Chiaki’s probable growing concern for Hajime). Previous Nagito would have maybe encouraged them to succeed or do their best, but would just excuse any failure as just a stepping stone for them to overcome. Instead he comes up with a plan to forcibly cancel the exams.
After his plan both succeed and failed due to his luck he pretty much excepts the possibility of expulsion, since he believes himself to be trash especially compared to his classmates. But he shocked that Chisa actually cares for and stands up for him.
While he doesn’t change his world view completely he has them challenged which allows him to grow. To the point he could even see himself become a symbol of hope, or even the ultimate hope by stopping Junko. Mirroring a less destructive development he had in DR2.
Edit: 🐻 great video btw
@@oreotaku4017 That is a FANTASTIC observation! Thanks for sharing! I also gotta say, I tolerated DR3 Nagito MUCH more than DR2 Nagito--heck, DR3 Nagito even got a laugh out of me at some point. It's only when Nagito is under stress and gets in his crazy mood that I can't stand him (the self-deprecation is also annoying). So since those two traits are toned WAY down in DR3, I minded him a lot less haha And your observation probably contributes to that! X3
"Becoming despair is just part of the plan!"
I 100% agree with you. Junko in 1 & 2 seemed like a bigger threat than she was shown to be in 3 (not v3!). I honestly would’ve preferred where she manipulated most, but brainwashed the few that refused to fall. I just imagine Junko and Mukuro sneaking into the reserve course to then spread rumors and lies about Hope’s Peak and wish that had happened. In episode 1 of the Despair arc we see that each of the students have their own practicing space. Why not use those places again and have Junko do something to convert them. As an example: why not convert Sonia by saying that she will never be a good queen, Gundham doesn’t actually love her, her people hate her, etc. Then, when she is done take her to Gundham and Kazuichi, who, with a little bit extra prodding regarding their talents, will fall into despair at seeing Sonia’s state. The rest of the classmates I believe could have been done like this. Especially the ones who fall into pairs like Peko & Fuyuhiko, Mahiro & Hiyoko, and Akane & Nekomaru. I can see Nagito being manipulated in some twisted way into believing what he is doing is for hope. Sorry this is so long just wanted to share my thoughts. Also Despair bear! God bless!
That's what I wanted to see too :(
In 1 and 2 they seemed to be going for the angle that she was a master at mind reading with way too much charisma, and always knew exactly what to say to make you fall to her feet.
Then came "nope, brainwashing video for all" and I was ಠ_ಠ
Same.
Yeah I think a mixture of methods might have been best! I can see how some characters can be convinced while others need the brainwashing.
@@naolucillerandom5280 Even with the brainwashing video, Junko is still super threatening...just not AS threatening lol
I still wouldn't want to mess with her haha
I think Sonia would better have been manipulated through seduction- she’s a thrill-seeking character with a flair for the romantic and the dramatic, so I can see Junko emulating that. There’s an element of relatability between them (blue-eyed blondes with “taboo” interests, are thought to be more dumb than they are, constantly sexualised and taking it in stride etc), and Junko’s dangerous and charismatic enough to just totally draw Sonia in. Remember that part of Sonia’s despair purpose was to effectively lead a country to ruin, so rather than Junko telling her she’d be an awful queen, I think she’d say the opposite, she’s better than her parents etc. Her despair comes from caring about her people and willingly leading them to war/execution. Junko would be sweet all the way up until Sonia had fooled herself into doing this, and that’s where she would completely unravel and descend into despair. I don’t think she would ever stop being sweet to her, just she would pepper in more negging moments, more ignoring Sonia for other people and pursuits, and more criticism and vague insults- but Junko switches regularly, so she’d go back to the honeymoon phase just long enough to get her hopes up, just enough to keep her jumping through hoops to always see that side until she learns to love the bad parts more. That’s how I see Junko as an agent of despair. Not a scientific brainwashed, but a charming master-manipulator. Her main method is seduction, and everyone falls for her romantically or not regardless of who it is.
“The story, the characters, the art style, the music, THIS GUY”
*shows picture of Kokichi*
Glad you got into the anime and games as well! Even after learning Junko just used brainwashing videos, she still seemed like kind of a badass character. Sure, the brainwashing was very generic, but it’s the way she did it that it worked. Like class 77b, she let them built up hope with Chiaki before crashing it down with her despair by executing her in front of all of them. Just my opinion though, as I still haven’t finished up the anime, great video overall!
XD
Oh yeah for sure! Junko is still a huge threat and one of the most entertaining villains ever (imo). Just cuz I lost a little respect for her doesn't mean I lost all of it. She's still top tier to me haha It takes a certain kind of person to do what she did and it still took a lot of manipulation to make that whole execution effective. She's still the center of the biggest, most awful, most tragic event in human history and she wouldn't have been able to if she weren't capable. She still gets a lot of respect from me haha
Don't forget the Starlight Glimmer in the corner of the screen.
I think it would have been cool if she manipulated everyone, except Nagito. It'd be cool to watch her go mad and desperate because she just can't convince him. Then she resorts to her last option: brainwashing.
That would have been interesting to see!
Oh yeah definitely. It’s be funnier since Nagito would probably be the easiest to manipulate to her side. So it’s be funny if she tried to get him to her side but each time his luck just prevents it from happening the way she wants it to and so she gives up, grows desperate and mad and goes the brainwashing route
@@nevergonnagiveyouup1180 💜
she would probably get obsessed with the despair she feels trying to convince him but failing too. It would be really cool because then theres like a mutal junko and nagito bond they have going on about hating but loving the other for what the other gives them.
Nagito would give her despair and Junko would give him hope. (the sdr2 version of him that likes stepping stones to glory yada yada yada)
I think nagito joined her out of trying to immerse himself in despair as much as possible so that a much, much greater hope would come out of it. He seemed mostly the same in UDG although with even more of an obsession with this ideology
I think the writers drastically changed their plan between sdr2 and dr3. In sdr2, you can see reasons in the casts backstories why theyd turn to despair-tsumiki and tanakas abusive backgrounds, komaeda and nidas terminal illnesses, like 5 students who lost a friend/family member during twilight syndrome. Chiaki was also obviously meant to be just and ai and not human. In udg komaeda straight up tells you that he joined despair bc if hope will win either way he wants to increase the despair so more hope will come and defeat it.
But then in dr3 they nerf monacas arc that they were hinting towards and launch her into space. And they make chiaki a real person and the rese of the sdr2s casts storyline revolve around her. We throw away basically everyones tragic backstories and pretend that everyone was just peachy until chiaki died. Hajimes arc of feeling inferior without talent and being desperate to feel special gets reduced to wanting to impress a girl. We barely see the reserve course interact with the ultumates so he is now "special" just by virtue of knowing chiaki, and instead now his motivation is wanting to fit in with her friends. Even in dr0 the reserve course was building up a cult around despair after seeing how hopes peak handled the student council killing game and they did nothing with it. Just attached the video to a clip of ppl dying and everyone goes insane
A main theme in dr is that despair spreads like a disease. Junko didnt even have to meet everyone in the sdr2 cast to make them all worship her. We see close bonds between some of the students that could easily make one turn to despair after the other has, like pekoyama and kuzuryuu. We could even have had some scenes where some in the reserve course werent onboard with despair but were forced into by their classmates, which was hinted to be the case for the kids of towa city. Mob mentality at play could have explained why so many ppl turned to despair, and fits with the theme more than thr brainwashing video.
Basically the brainwashing was nothing more than a lazy plot device and the dr team has a great setup from sdr2 and udg that they should have used instead of a lot of new plotpoints they introduced in the anime for shock value
I personally only started to like Monaca after DR3 lol I thought it was funny how she gave up on hope it despair and went to space. Like me, she got annoyed with Nagito XD
I don't think Hajime's arc totally revolved around Chiaki. He was already insecure before that and especially when Juzo called him out for being basic. Wanting to fit in with Chiaki was certainly a factor that tipped him over the edge, but he was already on his way there. He was never quite happy being a reserve student.
And it wasn't just Chiaki dying that turned them to despair. On it's own, they would have been fine. Grieving, but fine. It's the brainwashing video that warped them. It was similar to how the teacher needed an extra stimulus for her to be warped as well.
But ultimately, yes, there are some characters Junko could have influenced directly without needing the brainwashing video. Others she might have needed it for.
I do agree tho that, based off of some characters dialogue, the DR team did change their mind on how this happened. So it's a bit of a retcon.
@@TheArtisticAloubell monaca is kind of like junko for me in that i hate her as a person but i think shes a good character and villain. Her space neet thing was funny but after how intense udg was i hoped theyd do something more with her. Might just be me though.
Ye hajimes arc didnt completely revolve around chiaki but a good part of it did which kind of bothered me. It would be different if he also became friends with the other sdr2 kids but it seemed like his only point of reference for actual talent was chiaki. Sure juzo insulted him for not being an ultimate and tenzin was manipulating him into becoming kamakura, but hajime wanting talent in dr3 feels less like he wants it because hes insecure about other peoples views of him, like in sdr2, and more like he cares about chiakis views on him, which is less interesting.
It feels like they wanted to spend all their time developing chiaki/yukizome/mitarai and had no screentime left to show the sdr2s casts descent into despair. I personally think chiaki is a more meaningful character as just an ai than as a human and it would also make the ending of sdr2 more meaningful, but either way the brainwashing video and her death should only be the catalyst for everyone falling into despair at most. Have the anime show everyone struggling with their own problems and have the video be the thing that breaks them. They werent able to develop the new characters to the same extent as students we spend an entire 50 hour game with so they ended up being bland, and they spent so much time on the new characters so we didnt see much of the characters we did know. Its kind of the worst of both worlds lol
@@pandoratheexplorer8211 all very fair points!
8:28 Actually, imo, I don’t really think it’s that far-fetched to wonder how Junko could’ve theoretically manipulated Nagito into becoming a part of Ultimate Despair. In fact, I think he was one of the easier ones for people to have wrapped their heads around, especially compared to someone like, I dunno, Ibuki?
Even if Nagito and Junko seem like complete opposites with the hope and despair thing, they both have pretty similar mentalities. To have despair, you first need hope and vice versa. The greater the hope, the greater the despair (and vice versa). Both go hand in hand. Disregarding the brainwashing video plot point in DR3, we’re already shown in DR2 that Nagito is willing to bring despair as long as it creates even more hope in the end, just that he had his limits. In UDG, you kind of see these limits getting breached, when he says he is willing to even become despair for the sake of hope. It would’ve been pretty plausible that Junko was the one who manipulated him into breaching those limits of his, recruiting him into Ultimate Despair. In that case, Nagito could’ve seen Junko as someone who could bring forth even more opportunities for hope, being the embodiment of despair, which is why he says that he both loves and hates her more than anyone else in the epilogue of UDG.
Most of my thoughts are based on weebynewz’s video that she made before dr3 came out that I thought was a completely believable explanation for how Nagito fell into despair. Nope, I’m not original. ruclips.net/video/B8Q88U-_pYo/видео.html
You bring up a good point!
So the more I think about it, and the more you all are convincing me, I do agree that pre DR3 Nagito likely could have been convinced to be a Remnant of Despair. Before DR3, he was perfectly okay with causing despair in order to create a brighter hope, so I can see him being okay with Junko (and in his words, both loving and hating her) because the amount of Despair she'd cause would lead to a hopeful future.
BUT since DR3 is canon and he didn't hesitate to try and kill Junko, methinks the writers retconned more than just how everyone fell into despair, they also tweaked Nagito's personality a bit. He immediately tried to snuff out the despair instead of letting it happen to cause the hope later on.
So yeah, pre DR3 Nagito could be convinced while post DR3 couldn't which is why he needed to be brainwashed.
@@TheArtisticAloubell Then again, Nagito can be a giant hypocrite sometimes so maybe he was shooting his shot at becoming hope himself, like he does in Chapter 5? Trying to become more than just a stepping stone. But to my memory there’s nothing to imply this in the anime and his actions in Chapter 5 did require very extreme circumstances (and martyring his own life), so it’s more likely that his writing just got bungled lol. There’s another instance of this in DR3 where Nagito gets into a plane (he’s implied to, the plane is crashed already though). But in the game Nagito is visibly panicked just by seeing a jet plane because of the trauma of his parents dying in a plane. So the writers just? Forgot how his parents died?? It’s a little bit of a funny oversight.
I think the best line would be to go through nagito and his whole thing of "despair must exist so that hope can conquer it and become stronger". As in, Junko could have planted that thought into his mind and then the absurd luck could have explained some other plot holes maybe. One could even make nagito be the anti-hero with the thought ačready there, no brainwashing needed, he could just seek her out himself and he's be a much stronger antagonist even in the plot. It could have been a revela at the end of dr2, a final plot twist? idk, just an idea
That would have been neat! Upon further stewing, I realized Nagito probably could be won over to the despair side when, as you said, you can convince him that this ultimate despair is needed for ultimate hope. So I could definitely see your idea happening! X3
I loved this video, really put my disappointment of the brainwashing plot into words. By any chance, are you interested in playing and/or analysing the Danganronpa Another series? It's a fangame created by Linuj that's praised for it's good writing. I haven't seen anyone make a video about it before so that would be really cool to see! Thank you! Despair bear ~
Thank you for watching and for your interest! ^_^
I don't currently have plans to review fan series, but I have heard of it! Who knows, maybe one day! ^_^
I agree that the whole death cult thing among the reserve students was really out there, but the situation with class 77 seemed less like just brainwashing, and more like emotionally destroying them. A combination of trauma and guilt, since they themselves walked right into the trap, broke them completely. And someone like that is way easier to manipulate.
But I think the truth of the scenario is that they needed a reason for mitirai to be there and be important
I definitely see your point! And it is very valid. Although I still consider it brainwashing/hypnotism given that Mitarai was attempting to do the exact opposite: brainwash the world so that everyone is peaceful and happy (SOLEY through watching the animation and nothing else). They phrased it like he had the power to control people with his animations to behave exactly how he wants them to. That's very brainwashy haha
It's always hard to write overly competent villains. 🐻
True x3
Despair Bear 🐻
Also, another good example of the Rule of Cool is when Mulan cuts her hair with that iconic song, and also the classic scene where a character is about to get killed but their friend/ally comes to save them in that EXACT moment (because they can’t save them while the scary music is still playing 🙄) Also. I will never understand how Peko and Fuyuhiko didn’t turn crazy when Natsumi died but they did with Chiaki (who never actually had a proper interaction with them)
My take on it is that it was cooler to assume originally when playing the second game that Junko was intelligent enough to manipulate everyone in the class to follow her. However, that was when the game could just get away with implying that’s what she did. In the Dangonronpa 3 anime they actually had to show how she did that, and since it would have been incredibly difficult for Junko to have done so, it would have also been difficult to write her doing so convincingly. My guess is that the creator did not have confidence enough to convincingly write Junko being able to manipulate everyone, and so he just went with the far easier route and used brainwashing.
Had some of the dialogue been a bit different in DR2, then the brainwashing thing wouldn't have been so much of a surprise. Like, Junko at the end of DR2 said that the reserve course students were all madly in love with her which is why they died for her. But then we learn they were brainwashed.
So there was definitely retcons that happened.
There was an official Danganranpa novel that showed a "what if" story that showed us Mukuro's personality. But then the DR3 anime happened and her personality is different from what we thought.
So there was a definite lack of planning when all of this was happening lol
@@TheArtisticAloubell I’m quite glad they didn’t imply brainwashing though. Part of why that trial made me love her more than I already did was that very implication. She’s also a lot more easy-going in that trial, more natural, less chaotic (less suicidal)? so you get a better sense of her actual personality and actual thoughts process. In the first game’s last trial, it seemed like she was constantly guarding her true intentions and emotions and her true self, a little more batshit than usual from killing her sister and spending weeks alone in front of monitors, trying to keep up the enigmatic persona in a broadcast to the entire world. So although I know a lot of people weren’t happy she came back in the second game, diminished the significance of her death etc, I’m happy she did, just so we got more context and more (as we thought) canon elements to her real personality. I kinda view her and the anime version as separate entities lol. I think even the voices the VAs give them highlight the contrast between them.
My personal biggest disappointment was the fact the Izuru Kamakura was a non factor in the despair arc.
RIGHT?! He was so boring! All the hype behind him and he basically did nothing but watch things happen.
What really bothers me about DR3 is how Nagito knew who Junko was??? Like, he just stumbled upon her and was like, "you must be despair." How did he know? Was he making baseless accusations and trusted his luck to accuse the right person? Sure, a hidden room is sketchy, but is it sketchy enough to know she's despair? It confuses me thinking about it.
I guess he has hope vs despair sense? Lol It's like Spidey-sense but it only detects hope and despair XD
@@TheArtisticAloubell thats actually pretty funny.
@@TheArtisticAloubell I think that's actually the case. I think I read someone that Nagito can sense someone's hope level/despair level
0:09 Ok that's it. I'm subscribing. Obviously kokichi is one of the things to love about danganronpa.
(Feel free to disagree. It's fine. He is a very controversial character after all)
Yay! Another Kokichi fan
I never quite understood why people were so shocked class 77 could so easily fall into despair. Of course, the brutal things we see class 77 do as part of the Ultimate Despair are entirely unimaginable, even for example Kuzuryuu descending so low as to replace his own eye with Enoshima’s. But class 77 has much darker backstories than class 78 or V3’s class. Consider, just from the examples you pull up at 2:49,
Nidai has a countdown timer on his life due to his illness. That’s a weak point Enoshima could’ve manipulated (this is arguably weak).
Komaeda was willing to create great Despair in the name of hope. As you can see in SDR2, even before Komaeda was brainwashed he was willing and able to do absolutely insane things as long as you put him in a dire situation. For Komaeda, all Enoshima might have to do is plunge the world into despair to begin with. Once Komaeda sees how easily Enoshima put the world into despair, he could be convinced to attack the world in the name of providing a reason for them to create hope.
Mioda was constantly abandoned by everyone. Despite her title as the Ultimate Musician (or more accurately, the Ultimate Light Music Club Member), none of her previous band liked Mioda’s music taste enough to allow her to stick around. That’s been the trend of Mioda’s life; abandonment because no one can handle her true self.
Class 77 wasn’t innocent. I don’t get why everyone insists they were. It’d have been a perfectly reasonable story to have them fall into despair one by one, with Komaeda being the last to do so, and have Mitarai have something similar to his canon methods by using the despair brainwashing technology on the reserve course to have them do what they did. After all, no one can expect a satisfying explanation that makes sense in how Enoshima was able to convince 2,300~ students into committing mass suicide. But 16 students she spent a year with? Definitely could happen.
You bring up good points! Fair enough!
I always enjoy watching people get into Danganronpa more, welcome to the fandom 🐻
I got into the fandom when the Game Grumps started playing Danganranpa one or two years ago and Ive been enjoying myself x3
Thank you! 😎
@@TheArtisticAloubell Your welcome 🙂
My idea on how Junko got Nagito to despair is by getting him to believe that Hope will come that’s big enough to destroy the despair especially if there’s more of it
Danganronpa is very meta at its core, either by commeting on japanese High School (and it's tropes) in the first game, Games in general in the second, or Danganronpa in general in v3. With that i think it's fairly obvious that with the hypnosis-anime and Mitarai being a key character, they wanted to show the power of anime like they have showed the power of hope/games/fiction in the other games.
Idk tho and i'm open for debates :D
That's a very interesting thought and cool analysis!
I think Danganranpa is very smart in a lot of ways, but it's not perfect. You can definitely tell that some things were planned out versus others that weren't and even retconned so that things could make sense.
Regardless, it's still a really fun story x3
arguable i think komaeda would have been one of the easiest to become a remnant of despair, in ultra despairs girls where we get to see him as one he states since hope always wins it doesn’t matter what side he’s on, and even in the game we see he’s willing to make despairful situations for the students to overcome and have their hopes rise even higher because of it
Very fair! I do agree that pre DR3 Nagito likely could have been convinced to be a Remnant of Despair. Before DR3, he was perfectly okay with causing despair in order to create a brighter hope, so I can see him being okay with Junko (and in his words, both loving and hating her) because the amount of Despair she'd cause would lead to a hopeful future.
BUT since DR3 is canon and he didn't hesitate to try and kill Junko, methinks the writers retconned more than just how everyone fell into despair, they also tweaked Nagito's personality a bit. He immediately tried to snuff out the despair instead of letting it happen to cause the hope later on.
So yeah, pre DR3 Nagito could be convinced while post DR3 couldn't which is why he needed to be brainwashed.
Yay, another Kokichi lover!🥰🐻
Seriously though, great video! It's well thought out and in depth!😊😊👏👏
Yay! Another Kokichi lover!
He is cool boi
@@SweetStoneArts He's best boy 🥰
Heck ya! Kokichi is awesome! 😁✨✨
🍅
Okay I love this overly positive kokichi loving reply and comment section. Yes kokichi is totally best boy.
i still remmber the curry eye thing yghhguguthfhehd
the best example of rule of cool was the first 3 volumes of RWBY, realistically Ruby should not be able to hack through grimm like that, however you suspend your disbelief since the fight choreography was stunning (again first 3 volumes)
Despair bear 🐻
Wait a minute you mean monokuma ?
yes X3
I didnt realize it was carocine he was using I thought it was some pich or something. To me the scene that is more rule of cuule in the second movie after the skelet one, is one of the bandits being hit in by many bricks thrown from like 5 stories down at him and not only surviving but being able to get up and do anything other than lying on the pavement cry in pain till the ambulance get him.
AH YES The brick scene would have been another great example XD
Personally I was okay with Junko manipulating everyone since we’ve seen Ultimate talents get pretty extreme and unrealistic at times before (eg Makoto & Nagito’s luck) so it wasn’t that weird that the Ultimate Despair could convince people
The more I see discussions about DR3, the more I think that both Despair and Future Arcs deserved at least 24 episodes EACH. 11-12 episodes just wasn't enough to develop a good DR story. I believe the main reason they came up with the brainwashing plot was because if Junko were to individually manipulate every Class 77-B student it would take at least one entire episode for each of them (except for Peko, because she just follows Fuyuhiko). And if Future Arc had more episodes, they could've actually developed the new characters and made us care about them.
I would've much preferred to see Junko manipulating some of the SDR2 characters in ways that might seen like a big stretch over the less cool, and even less realistic, brainwashing shenanigans.
I agree--we could have gotten ESPECIALLY a lot more time during the Despair Arc. Not only spend more time with class 77-B, but also see some of the school life of our friends from THH.
I kinda liked the idea of Junko brainwashing the remnants of despair, tbh. She'd be way too OP if she convinced them solely through manipulation. It shows that not even Junko can be that powerful in terms of manipulation and charm. I know Danganronpa isn't the most realistic, but I think it adds lots of juicy stuff. Plus, it added some interesting lore to the anime
YEAH! It's unrealistic for her to be able to get to everyone personally like that, and that would be more impressive. But brainwashing is more believable.
I honestly kind of wish they hadn’t made the anime, I get that there were a bunch of loose ends that they felt needed tying up but idk,,, the only thing I liked about the anime was hope arc just because I was so happy to see class 77B again and well, alive. To me, what made Junko so frightening was that she was doing all of this crazy stuff that no one should have the means to do, and in the games they deliberately avoid explaining how she did it! Like in the first game when Junko reveals that she erased their school memories, obviously the survivors ask how the heck she did it, and the answer is that it doesn’t matter how she did it, all that matters is that it happened. A similar response is given when Junko is asked why she does what she does, and while the anime does develop why she’d want despair, we largely don’t get a backstory, and that’s because would her backstory actually matter? She’s done so many awful things that no backstory could ever really serve as enough of an excuse or explanation, so it doesn’t matter. It’s not content they need to include because it won’t change anything about Junko or how we see her. Even if it’s majorly tragic there is nothing that could excuse her behaviour, and so leaving it a mystery is honestly best because it adds to the overall wackiness of Junko’s character, and leaving things open-ended for player interpretation is always an interesting thing to do.
As for the brainwashing,,,, yeah, not a fan. I can see it being a last resort for the most good-natured or hope-loving students of class 77B, but the big bad reveal was just,,,, brainwashing?? Yeah, not much hype there. That’s another reason why I said I kind of wish the anime didn’t exist, as I don’t believe there is a good enough explanation for how she managed to turn the cast of SDR2 into ultimate despair. I know it’s not satisfying to not know but again, I don’t know if the methods really matter so much, as what’s done is done. The method being brainwashing was just. Ugh. Not the best. If they really had to include an explanation, I would have preferred for Junko to break all of their spirits individually. I think she could have managed it for every student of 77B, save chiaki who would have to die regardless since it’s already established she doesn’t exist in reality anymore in SDR2 and,,,,, Him.
It’s not so much that I don’t believe Junko couldn’t try to break nagito’s spirit, nor do I believe he’s actually just too resilient and optimistic to fall to despair like makoto. No, I just don’t think Nagito could be fazed by anything Junko would do to him. He’s already lost everything he ever could. And even if she killed chiaki in front of him or showed him the tape of it, without the added brainwashing, I don’t think he’d fall to despair. He’d see it as a stepping stone, a potential for hope to overcome despair, and, to be frank, he’s dealt with worse than the death of his class president, even if she was really nice. I can buy Junko reasoning with him, telling him that he could help create a bigger despair than ever before by becoming ultimate despair and thus allowing ultimate hope to overcome it, but that isn’t what happens, and even then I doubt he’d want the “ultimate despair” moniker attached to him. The anime does Nagito disservices though, by muddling his already very complex characterization. I love the way Nagito is written, I do, and I haven’t actually watched all the anime bc why would I want to do that, but the idea that he’d just straight up try to kill Junko is plausible at the surface level, as in he hates despair and all that, killing the ultimate despair will create ultimate hope, blah blah blah. But it DOESN’T work if you need a reason for Nagito to join ultimate despair. Heck, Nagito is one of the people who tries the hardest to make Monaca succeed Junko so that she can create more despair and be overcome. The idea that Nagito would try to kill Junko only to then decide she’s better off alive so that she can be defeated when she’s committed more atrocities is contradictory, and while you could argue that nagito’s characterization is contradictory in and of itself, it really isn’t, his worldview makes perfect sense coupled with his backstory and talent. I am glad though that, the game at least mentions that Nagito, even when he’s ultimate despair, says that he hates Junko, which does prove that Junko was not able to quash his love for hope. It is clear though that Nagito does feel the same twisted admiration for her that the other despairs do, though for him it’s pretty clearly because her existence allows for ultimate hope to rise against her. Literally that’s why the killing Junko before she barely does anything scene is so annoying to me, because everything else makes perfect sense with nagito’s character.
God this was long and the order probably doesn’t make sense but it’s 2:30 am and I could literally rant about the characterization of Nagito Komaeda for hours
I would’ve enjoyed an anime JUST on the games
i personally believe that the brainwashing video for the reserve course is perfect and the only time it should’ve been used. not only did it prove how versatile and powerful certain talents could be (ryota mitarai making the despair video actually induce emotion in the viewer), but the underappreciated reserve course students realizing that they were used by the school they believed in for horrible things like a killing game and human experimentation would DEFINITELY throw someone into despair and hopelessness with the world around you. you’re not special, you were used by the school you believed in, and this school that everyone in your country and possibly the world hails as a place to produce superstars was practicing next level lobotomy. this is a perfect example of brainwashing with junko’s talents. however, junko working to manipulate the 77th class ON HER OWN would be amazing, plus nagito has already shown that he would join the side of despair if he was convinced it would produce a magnificent hope. nagito and her working together while also despising each other would be much more interesting. also, chiaki dying twice in the series was stupid in my opinion. it felt like both were two parts of a better execution. in sdr2, if chiaki had died trying to save her classmates or something like in the anime, it would’ve created something more emotional, similar to how peko died, and her coming back to convince hajime in his weird mindspace was sort of pushing the whole “it’s a game!” gag
I'm not a big fan of any of the Danganronpa animes- I feel like they're way better at telling stories through games rather than animation because they can't put as much story into animation because of the lack of budget, time, etc
Believe me, I'm on that train too. I only found out about Danganronpa in 2021 😅 Still, I love the game series as a whole. It's just too good!
It's so good! 😁✨✨✨
@@TheArtisticAloubell the thing I just find off for me, other then how Junko's way of brainwashing people in the anime is how V3 ended. I mean, the game was good maybe not as good as 1 and 2, but I didn't exactly like that everytime there's a villain in the game it always had to be Junko. Even with the Ultimate Cosplayer, she basically became the 53rd version of Junko 😑 I mean ok yes Junko is great but I wish for a new villain. Especially considering that it turned out that there's 53 games/seasons of Danganronpa. I'm sad that Danganronpa is over (well for now perhaps), but I definitely enjoyed the series (even with its faults in both the games and anime)
@@abby-cadabby Honestly, I'm still convinced that Tsumugi was lying about Danganranpa just being a game. She's a liar so it's totally possible most of what she said was lies. But yeah, her only gimmick was that she could turn into other people. She herself wasn't as good of a villain, to me, as Junko or Monaca.
The drawing is nice, I don't watch Danganronpa, but some parts of it sound interesting. I don't think it's something that I would get into because I don't really watch anime, and I don't really enjoy things that have a lot of dark plot points (Unless I can find at least on piece of wholesome content, or the story has more interesting elements. I don't mean to make it sound like Danganronpa doesn't have those things, I just don't know if it has those things, and I feel like it would be too intense for me anyway.) I think the video had a lot of good points, and I could understand what you were talking about without being in the Danganronpa fandom, so I think you did a good job. 🐻
Thank you so much for watching the video even though you don't want/play Danganranpa. I really appreciate you! ❤️❤️🥰
can we just appreciate how she replies to every comment!? plus the timestamps and amount of effort that she puts into her videos! Also I would love to see more Danganronpa content cause i agree its a really cool game and there's a lot to look into it ^^
Thank you so much for your kind words 😘
It's getting harder to reply to everyone, but I'll still do my best to reply to as many as I can!
If it had been my call, I think I would have made it so that Junko used the VR technology introduced in Danganronpa 2 to trap each of her classmates in a private Hell and broke them mentally to the point that they embraced her philosophy. Not as impressive as her voice alone bringing them to her side but more impressive than a glorified hypnoscreen doing it.
that would have been really cool X3
I like the "cooler" way because danganronpa is supposed to be weird as heck and it works! I love over the top villians with impossible goals and especially when those goals are achieved at one point (and then taken away from them ofc)
I never finnished watching the danganronpa anime because I didn't like it and before seeing this video I thought Junko did all of this herself and I'm disappointed 😔 But not as disappointed as I was with V3s ending! If you know you know
I don't think brainwashing Komaeda would be that hard, to be honest. He already loves causing despair just so some abstract hope can show itself later. Komaeda himself explains it in UDG. Junko only needed to exacerbate that. He would still claim to be in the side of hope, but in practice he wouldn't.
Regarding Junko, I think she's just a villain sue, although I can't deny she was really enjoyable to watch in the anime.
But it was annoying how the plot constantly contorted itself to make her look good. She just "knew" a lot of top secret stuff that could be of use to her, but never explained how she gained that knowledge (for example, she knew about the Kamukura project for no reason), she had a lot of practical knowledge she shouldn't have (programming and brainwashing, plus being a better clairvoyant than the ultimate clairvoyant himself) and she got away with everything so easily despite never trying to cover her tracks. She literally got away with throwing a grenade from the window of a limousine in the middle of a highway. And she also got a secret base on the school for no reason.
And even though people claim she is a top tier manipulator, all her "Great Manipulations" happen offscreen. Every time she tried to manipulate someone to the side of despair onscreen she failed miserably even though she had a massive advantage due to the state of the world.
I think having her manipulate everyone would have been way more interesting than just some dumb brainwashing, though it would have required the anime to be much longer, probably.
tl;dr: Yeah, rule of cool was abused to make Junko look good, but it made me lose respect for her as a villain. However, she still should have manipulated people into her side as that concept has way bigger potential than plain brainwashing. She still is very fun to watch, though.
Huh! I've never heard of a villain sue before, but you make excellent points! I don't think I ever really questions how she got the information she had XD Though I think its implied that she has connections everywhere due to her wealth and charisma. BUT who's to say?
Huh! I've never heard of a villain sue before, but you make excellent points! I don't think I ever really questions how she got the information she had XD Though I think its implied that she has connections everywhere due to her wealth and charisma. BUT who's to say?
@@TheArtisticAloubell actually in Danganronpa zero light noveli think it’s was it, well first spoilers. Also I didn’t read the novel so I can’t give everything I know but basics I found.
it showed her original talent before she became model Junko was the ultimate analyst so it makes sense in how she predicted and manipulated things. She also became a model because her talent as an analytical prowess helped her predict trends
Also the wealth and charisma of being a model would aid her. And probably why she chose to use her prowess to help her gain that talent
But yeah I agree with you saying should’ve actually manipulated people on screen. And not brainwashed
I prefer to think danganronpa 3 doesnt exist, thank you
great material uwu
X'D
Actually Nagito was already in Despair before going to hopes peak which I call bullshit on
I call shenanigans on that as well.
🐻❄️🐻
In addition to how Enoshima’s actions can be criticized, Mitarai’s can be looked at as well. It doesn’t make sense that Mitarai would sit on his “Hope” video for 2 whole years of The Tragedy. Like, yes it sucked that he has to flee from Enoshima, but he was clearly outmatched against her and all the Reserve Course students who wanted to tear an Super High-School Level student limb from limb. I know that animations can take years, that’s usually with longer ones. The Hope brainwashing video to counteract Enoshima’s Despair one couldn’t have been longer than a couple minutes (I’d say 10 max), but the even bigger issue with the Despair video was that it was mostly the snuff film of the Student Council’s short killing game. There were edits made, but I can’t imagine Enoshima made Mitarai animate over it, as in drawing lines over the snuff film, y’know? I mean, because people who watched it clearly realized it was of real life people dying. What I’m trying to say is, Mitarai taking as long as he did to make a Hope video and to even propose the idea to Naegi or the rest of the Future Foundation was absurd, and even if he’d went through with it, he’d have been no better than Enoshima. The video also affected people at inconsistent paces. Tsumiki and the Reserve Department caved really quickly, but Class 77 B took quite awhile, and it was really Nanami’s death that sealed the deal. Idk, I could go on a whole rant about this, but as you said, what’s done is done. The anime is already have a decade old lol, and at the very least I can appreciate that one of the classes got a happier ending.
I was watching this forgetting the anime was different than the games lol
DespairBear!
I really enjoyed danganronpa and I never knew there was this controversy. lol😅
Edit: now that I think about it, it's probably because I never talked about danganronpa to anyone
Lol
No problem! I only noticed it after reading comments in Danganranpa videos haha
My biggest problem with Danganronpa 3 is how it wastes the potential of several of the characters, I mean, Monaka had so much potential as the main villain of the future arc, but the writers blew it
As someone who found Monaca pretty underwhelming and kind of boring in UDG (compared to Junko) I actually liked the 180 heel turn and how wacky they made her. Yes, I could have been disappointed, and I understand why some people are, but I just welcomed her being more entertaining lol
Dispair Bear
Hair Pear
Mayor Fare
Scare Mare
Other things that rhyme with "Dispair Bear"
XD
✨👍
I’ll think it would’ve been better overall though if Chiaki and most of the Hijime stuff wasn’t there (especially since they make really big retcons in order for their stories to function) and give more empathies on how Junko got her plan succeed while having her actually experience difficulties and figure it out how to deal with these issues for her plan to succeed rather having everything handed to her and everything issue that would’ve effected her plan worked itself out.
I personally liked the Chiaki Hajime stuff (and as a Chiaki fan, more Chiaki means a win for me).
I think the biggest problem was time. Only getting 12 episodes wasn't enough time to flesh out everything. The Despair arc could have easily been its own 26 episode anime.
It never really thought about it up until now since I more played the games than watched the anime, but I knew all the important parts that happened in DR3. And I have to agree: the brainwashing makes things a bit more realistic, but the idea of Junko Enoshima, the one who started "The Biggest, Most Awful, Most Tragic Event in Human History", the causer of the world's worst despair, being a mere teenager who used her endlessly great intelligence and charming charisma to manipulate those she needed to do her bidding without hesitation does sound more 'cool', or more impressive as Aloubell puts it. I understand completely that though she could blackmail and convince others to join her side or agree to her orders, especially Class 77-B, perhaps those like the trembling and always stuttering Mikan Tsumiki, the exhausted, the timid and asocial Ryota Mitorai as we do see happen, but the rest of the class? I find that pretty hard to believe. With some more convincing, maybe others might follow suit or be tricked to fall too far to be helped, but a lot of them like the loud, motivational Nekomaru Nidai, the biggest hope enthusiast Nagito Komaeda and many others would be a hell lot more resistant and see through her act. Perhaps some could be manipulated and the ones she simply can't seem to get to wrap around her finger, Junko can just use the brainwashing video on? Have their beloved class rep Chiaki Nanami executed in front of their eyes and perhaps with the help of those manipulated already? That could work.
If you want a good idea of how this could work, I saw a short Danganronpa comic called Rock Bottom here on RUclips showing the cheery and hyperactive Ibuki Mioda down in the dumps about people despising her new music after leaving the band she was in before and the comments bringing her down further and further into her own self-pity and frustration. But don't worry! A certain someone is ready to help her spread her music and make everyone love it and her!
(If u wanna check it out, here's the link: ruclips.net/video/IptOfIX0xKE/видео.html )
thank you for your thoughtful comment ^_^
@@TheArtisticAloubell your welcome! love ur videos btw, keep up the good work
@@jemjimjam5444 Thank you so much
As a fan of Danganronpa, and having seeing the complete unabridged history of Danganronpa. I love/hate Junko.
I think she's an interesting character but her love of despair is a little much. The way she murdered Mukuro in THH was brutal, even for her. She wanted to feel despair herself, so she diverted from the og plan. So *boom* spears of gungnir.
But did Junko really have to do that to herself? She had so many more opportunities to cause despair for herself later on.
There's a huge connection between the games, THH, SDR2 and DRV3, *spoilers for DRV3: Killing Harmony* that they each have their own despair lover,
THH has Junko, SDR2 has Nagito and DRV3 has Tsumugi, and technically also Korekiyo.
You could argue Tsumugi doesn't love despair, but the idea of causing it for entertainment, hence why she is part of Team Danganronpa.
Korekiyo causes despair in a different way, thinking those who he killed would be friends for his beloved sister in the afterlife.
But going back to Junko and the SDR2 babies, having them watch Chiaki be her execution guinea pig and be brutally killed in a maze was sad. Chiaki was a precious baby who deserved better. Yes, she succeeded in causing mass despair in one action, but at what cost? That whole class lost the personalities that made them loveable.
Thank you for coming to my TED Talk
I personally pretend that Dr3 never happened and that it isn't cannon even if it is because it just ruined everything it tried to do while also rewriting charcaters to be worse off ;-;
much like V3
I personally like the DR3 anime. It had some missteps, and the Junko thing just made things more controversial and complex, but if it weren't for the anime, we wouldn't have Chisa, we wouldn't have more Chiaki or Gundham, and we wouldn't have had 100% confirmation that our peeps from Class 77-B are all alive. Plus the future side gave Aoi great character development and it was enjoyable seeing her and Makoto's friendship since that wasn't all that apparent in the first game/anime.
That being said, I do have critiques haha The disappointment from the brainwashing being one of them.
V3...I don't hate it, but I don't love it either. It gave me Kokichi so I can't be mad at it lol. I like to think the ending of V3 was one huge lie that Tsumugi told haha
@@TheArtisticAloubell I don't dislike v3 due to its ending unlike others I've seen
I dislike it due to the (imo of course) extremely flat 1dimentional cast which you would assume we're written by a 15 year old fan for their fangame rather then the actual person behind the first 3 games
I like v3's ui style but like most stuff was really just not enjoyable for me
I liked the ending frankly because the only realistic way v3 would be cannon which explains the too flat to be close to real cast is if was fictional
Without DR3 more stuff would be left to questions with for example their true fates not being known and I really like that approach
For example How Hajime got turned into Izuru was really REALLY downplayed much like everything serious that was established in DR2
we would still have Chiaki but just the Ai verson which I would be happy with as the concept of one of the students not being a actually real but they still got just as much love by others unknowing of their nature amazing and I feel like DR3 kinda ruined that by showing chiaki was a actual person (I would let it slide if she was more different then her AI verson but..... she's literally the same)
The way junko brainwashed everyone was also downplayed heavenly
Most of the DR3 characters weren't memorable for me at all
I don't even know any of their names on the top of my head
Don't even get me started on how much the Anime Butchered Mukuro and her Relationship with junko (she was already really expanded on in the books And in a good way which are also cannon they literally could have used that as a base but nope they decided to ruin it)
The entire deathgame in Hope ark is literally "Hey zero escape can I copy your homework?" "oh, sure bro just change it up a bit so it's not obvious"
I mean yeah they're owned by the same company so they have every single right to do that but I wish they came up with something Original
The Kyoko fakeouts also got old extremely quick
For me i have to literally needlefind good stuff about the anime which is buried under the haystack which is everything else
(We got DR 2.5 due to the animes existence and that's honestly the only good thing I can give it)
I don't wanna go into a lot of detail with V3 because I don't want this comment to get extremely long so sorry about that
@@SamiTheAnxiousBean I honestly don't care either way if at the end what Tsumugi said was true, but here's my interpretation of the ending of V3: Tsumugi was partially lying and partially telling the truth about how the world was. The truth was that the kids in the death game volunteered and had their memories wiped and were given ultimate talents and personalities and they volunteered to be a part of the death game. It was also true that this 53rd game took place years into the future. BUT I think Tsumugi is lying about the Danganronpa games being fictional. I think that on account of her so called "cos-pox." She proved to us that she can change her skin color in the blink of an eye, so its not outside of reason that she can make herself pink to make it look like she can't cosplay as real people. Going off of that logic, the first two games were real, but after years of peace, the world got bored and started the killing game just to spice things up again.
That's my interpretation anyway haha
V3 is my least favorite game though, for sure. It feels so distractingly detached from the overal DR story. I didn't dislike it, I just didn't like it as much.
As for DR3, yeah, they definitely retconned stuff in order to make its story happen. I'm kind of annoyed about Mukuro as well (I also don't like what they did with her character design in DR3). I wouldn't mind her personality as much if I didn't discover that she was different in prior media, so that was a weird change. Granted, it was still entertaining, to me, to see her and Junko interact in an anime.
I admittedly wasn't a fan of the death game in the future arc. Considering most of the players could fight back, AND considering it didn't even go by the same rules of the original killing games, it didn't even feel like Danganronpa. Not to mention the lack of Monokuma. I was surprised that I ended up caring about some of the new characters despite not having much time with them. Chisa was the teacher of the DR2 class btw. Aside from her, I didn't care about any of the new characters more than the old characters.
You make perfectly valid points, though!
@@TheArtisticAloubell I like the ending making danganronpa fictional but I feel like I wouldn't like the ending if the Cast was actually likable
A said prior the cast (especially in their English rewrites) are extremely one dimentional and flat with everyone except the main 4 (Shuichi, Maki, Kaito and Kokichi) having zero actual development or memorability in the slightest other then their catchphrases they blurt out every other line
Every single character can be described in 4 words or less
I'm personally not the biggest fan of Kokichi simply because he feels like a poor attempt to recreate what Nagito was in DR2 which was really badly executed but worked reguardless because the mob didn't really care about charcater quality and would rather just headcannon their own complete rewrite of the character which honestly.... at that point you don't like the charcater (not assuming you're one of those fans I need to make this clear)
But yeah as said before V3 feels way more diluted , toned down and dry compared to the other games and feels more like a Fangame then a actual game (which is also off since actual fangames like Shattered Hope, DRA:2 and Edens garden are ironically better written with a more memorable cast compared to V3)
also about the "The death game in DR3 didn't feel like a danganronpa game" thing, that's because it literally isn't
It's the base game concept of Zero Escape (minus the doors)
but also unrelated im glad we are actually having a peaceful convo about this tbh
you don't see that very much with the modern DR fandom unfortunutely ;-;
@@SamiTheAnxiousBean Aside from those main 4, I'd also make the argument that Himiko had some character development too. Sure, she says her catchphrase a lot, but it oddly never got on my nerves haha. Like I said in my character tier list video, she grew on me over time. But ultimately, I agree with you that most characters in V3 feel very surface level.
I'm not a fan of Nagito in the least bit as he got on my last nerve, and I was ready to dislike Kokichi cuz so many people warned that "if you dislike Nagito then you'll REALLY dislike Kokichi." So I was prepared. But I was pleasantly surprised and ended up loving him. He was very entertaining and smart to me. But I understand how some people may not like him. I disagree in him being a Nagito clone as they do act differently and have different yet similar motivations. He definitely shares the same role as Byakuya and Nagito in being the troublemaker, but I think he brings his own flair to it.
I respect your opinion, though ^_^
We at least agree that V3 is weaker than the other games haha
I'm sorry you've had bad experiences with other DR fans >__< But I too am grateful for how civil this conversation is!
3:25 Well yeah ofc that happened, it was *anime* That always water it down to please he networks and kee-that's just it really.
i think she wouldn't have enough time to manipulate everyone cause her talent yea she can basically out maneuver everyone (besides makoto and nagito cause how can you plan for sudden bouts of luck), what if a ultimate mastermind came along she would've have to compete with them hell i think the mastermind talent basically overshadows analyst. heck what if someone came along with similar if not same talent as her but isn't fucked up like her.
DespairBear 🐻
I’ve always considered it torture over brainwashing. She traumatised them then set them up to spiral in the exact way she wanted, which is definitely manipulating even if it’s distant. Despair isn’t really sadness after all, it’s the void of any hope. They didn’t have to “join” her they just had to lose the desire to save themselves. The tragedy was there to stop them from getting enough peace to heal and gave them complex-ptsd.
I definitely see your point! And it is very valid. And I'm sure the torture didn't help the situation!
Although I still consider it brainwashing/hypnotism given that Mitarai was attempting to do the exact opposite: brainwash the world so that everyone is peaceful and happy (SOLEY through watching the animation and nothing else). They phrased it like he had the power to control people with his animations to behave exactly how he wants them to. That's very brainwashy haha
@@TheArtisticAloubell I believe they were basing it on how media can manipulate its audience. It wasn’t JUST the animation that broke the reserve course it was the video recordings of the student council massacre mixed into it. The hope video though makes absolutely no sense but that one has nothing to do with junko, that was mitarai.
...
...
...there was a live-action Kim Possible movie?
lol yup. It uh...wasn't great (imo)...
Im just here so I can avoid bad writing but this was weirdly entertaining even if I haven’t watched nor played Dangnaronpa 🐻
haha thank you! ^_^
Jizu sagakura who i gotta watch the anime-
Love the video. 🐻
Thank you 🤍
I think the reason why many fans hated the "realistic" reason is that Danganronpa is kinda built on suspension of disbelief. It's unrealistic that Mondo turns into butter after his execution but it's cool and wacky like the rest of the franchise so we let it slide. It's not weird to believe that mastermind-ultimate despair Junko Enoshima manipulated the SDR2 cast because:
A) that would be attributed/lead to her Ultimate title,
B) that's how shes been characterized from the start,
and C) that's just how the Danganronpa universe works.
*Like the SDR2 executions are super realistic and totally make sense but the person who is meant to be the embodiment of despair masterfully manipulating even the most hopeful people into dispair is too far. /sarcastic *
I love you’re artstyle! Also great video!
Thank you so much
Despair Bear 🐼 👁👄👁
Ha,hard question,but I think cool root is better - it leaves more to imagination,more to think about,to make you wander and seeking the answer to how she did it.Its honestly a lot funnier if you give this fandom your time and brain power,and for a series with a consistant fandom-base and fanats I think it would be better.And yes - Despair bear.Thou - I'm on the side of Lies)
Thank you for watching and commenting with your input! 😁
I lile the rule of cool when it is done well plus expanding how something is done take away the mystery of the story and I like figuring things out for myself yes I watched the entire video 🐻
Until next time we are all part of a never ending story 😁
🐻I LOVE your analysis of this! Never really thought about this to much. But something sat wrong with me about the anime.. it just felt- off. So now I understand why!
I am watching while drawing. Despair Bear
Thank you
IMO, characterization and tone are more important than a story being reaIistic. If a story has the tone to justify it (and it definitely seems Iike danganronpa does... though aII I know about it is from my friends who Iike it) then it doesn't matter if it couId happen in the reaI worId. There are pIenty of stories that have earned a heavy amount of suspension of disbelief.
If peopIe can read minds and fIy and traveI through time, why can't someone manipuIate anyone they pIease into doing their bidding? It's just another part of the mythos that stories create.
I personaIIy aIways thought 'ruIe of cooI' was a positive thing, 'if it's cooI and fun and fits the story why not have this certain thing happen?'. But I do see how for some peopIe it couId ruin immersion- Iike you said, it's about a happy medium. The first option sacrificed reaIism for characterization, the second sacrificed characterization for reaIism. The happy medium you suggested seems Iike the best option, where mind controI is just one of many tooIs she uses. From my outsider perspective, the mind controI thing feeIs very cheap... Iike the whoIe reveaI that these characters you Iove couId do horribIe things is such a great moment and it kinda gets ruined when you say that 'oh they didn't actuaIIy *choose* to do that'.
Very good points!
0:09 kokichi my guy😫😫
XD
I actually think it’s more realistic to assume she would manipulate everybody. Brainwashing requires technology that’s just a bit too sci-fi (though arguably, Monokuma and the executions are too), and it kind of perverts the idea of hope vs despair in the first place. It cheapens them as genuine ideologies with genuine reasons and thought processes and _free will_ behind them and makes them weak tools with no sentiment behind them. Sure, Junko isn’t above playing dirty, but she’d consider converting everyone to despair as a game, and even if her games are extremely cruel and sometimes unfair, there is always a chance, however slim, to get out of it if you think hard enough.
But class 77 aren’t given a chance to think. At all. That’s not something Junko would do. And I suppose yeah, you could argue that not giving any free will with no option but despair is despair-inducing, but it fails to provide the challenge Junko craves. Depriving herself of that challenge might also be despair-inducing, but a game isn’t a game unless you have a chance of losing. Either way, despair she’ll achieve despair- whether because she wins and an entire class has abandoned all hope, or because she loses and gets to experience the despair of failing. Brainwashing guarantees that she will win. She’s deliberately closing off an avenue of her despair to strengthen her hope of achieving her goal. Although hope is inevitable when you want despair (as she and Nagito well knows), tipping the scales too much in hope’s favour would disgust her. It’s boring and predictable. Junko strives to be shutting but.
There was a fanfic on Ibuki’s descent into despair. It centred around her role in Natsumi’s and Sato’s death and the guilt she felt surrounding it. It was pretty well-written and brought in some interesting headcanons. There was another one I saw on Peko and Fuyuhiko’s descent into despair which perfectly encapsulated how Junko would go about ensuring that.
Nekomaru only has a couple of years to live, I read somewhere cuz of how buff he is and steroids and stuff. Even if he’s pretty positive, it wouldn’t take a lot to convince him that everything was pointless and there was no hope for him.
If we look at all of the technology in Danganronpa, the brainwashing isn't that out there or too sci-fi. Like you said, we have Monokuma and the executions, but also we have all of the different robots in Ultra Despair Girls, the mind control technology also in ultra despair girls, Alter Ego, Junko Alter Ego, the Neo World Program in itself, and whatever they are using in the first game to wipe everyone's memories. Danganronpa might not be in the sci-fi genre, but there is some pretty advanced technology used throughout the story.
I definitely see what you mean by the brainwashing being kind of cheap for the story, but it's still more realistic than Junko having the power to manipulate literally everyone who isn't Makoto. Makoto CAN'T be the only one she can't get to, that's just absurd. Probability wise, there should be others who can resist her and there should be at least a couple of them in class 77b.
While, yes, brainwashing does seem too easy and not a challenge for Junko, we could at least say that BECAUSE its too easy, she only used it on a few people and not on the entire world like Mitarai was planning. Junko does like a challenge, which is why she didn't go crazy using the brainwashing. It's probably also why she didn't try too hard to kill Makoto at first even though she always knew he'd be a problem.
Counter point, the brainwashing makes less sense. I don't know if i missed something, but Junko described it as rewiring their brains to function like her, which is wrong based on Nagito's dialogue in the boat and his actions as the servant and Mikan in chapter 3, also how would a video be able to brainwash anyway, Junko did the brainwashing video on her own using Mitarai(?) Technique, except he didn't show her how to rewire the human brain, and wouldn't it make more sense to ask Hajime as Izuru to show her instead of using Mitarai anyway? I know the manipulation part may seem hard to belevie but it actually makes more sense, heck, wanna know how she could have convinced Nagito? She could have taunted him, the boy is dying from terminal illness and just wants someone to love before he dies, she could have used that against him or something. Manipulation isn't just "come with me, play my games" it's way more complicated and when the whole world is in a tragedy, why wouldn't she be able to manipulate class 77b? Let's not forget about the whoke tragedy thing guys! Also if you can just show someone a video to brainwash them, why manipulate ANYONE?? Show Juzo the video, show the warriors of hope the video, show Towa the video, show Mitarai the video, show everyone the video. Class77b have the most fucked up backstories and i find it hard to belevie people as skilled as them would just stare at the video like dumbasses, don't even tell me they couldn't look away, Mahiru clearly turned her head after it had been going on for a while. It's not logical, it's bad writing, then again it IS danganronpa and the series is no stranger to that * coughs in every chapter 3s*
Even if it gave answers, an interesting mystery is better than a bullshit answer
Sorry if it just sounds like im ranting about the anime but i just hate it so much
Unless we are operating under the assumption that Makoto is the only person unable to be swayed by her charms, I find it hard to believe she'd get all of class 77b AND the entire reserve course to follow in her despair lead regardless of circumstance. I don't care how charismatic and intelligent she is, or what tragedy is happening, there's no way she's getting everyone on her side. After thinking it over, I can think of how she'd win over Nagito, but some others I pause on. Plus, with everything she was planning, she didn't have enough time to dedicate to manipulating everyone individually.
Junko is also super SUPER intelligent. Remember that she was able to repurpose Chihiro's AI program for herself by herself. She was able to understand what Mitarai was doing in her videos just by watching it a couple times (this was explained in DR3).
I can't explain why she didn't just use the video on everyone, but if I had to guess, maybe it was too easy and she wanted a challenge. We know for a fact Junko likes to challenge herself given she gave herself a fake deadline in DR2 and she allowed Makoto to live before they were all trapped in the school. And we know she loves unpredictability, so it would probably be boring and too easy to just brainwash everyone. Even Mitarai considered brainwashing everyone for the good, so surely Junko considered it for evil but decided not to.
So I think the brainwashing is more realistic BUT I will admit that the execution (i.e. the writing) wasn't the best. There were inconsistencies between DR2, DRIf, and DR3 that suggest soft retcons in order to make the DR3 story work.
Ultimately, I do respect your opinion! But I'm of the mind that the brainwashing makes more sense. Its certainly less exciting, but it makes more sense (and if it were written better, maybe more people would be for it. But alas, even I am not totally satisfied by it).
@@TheArtisticAloubell you got a great point, i honestly think that the brainwashing would have been great had she used it on the reserve course, but not class 77b. They were the big bad ultimate despairs after all, what's the challenge in brainwashing them?
Maybe execute Chiaki to make them feel absolute despair, brainwash the reserve course with it, and then manipulate 77b into embarrassing the despair they got. I don't think anyone would be mad about the reserve course getting brainwashed since Hajime isn't there anymore and Sato & Natsumi are too dead to be involved. It also explains how she managed to manipulate 77b (especially Ibuki), they were feeling the most despair they've ever had from watching Chiaki, their hope, get brutally executed. It seems like a good middle ground.
I am especially salty about the brainwashing because it ruins dr2, the whole point of the final trail was that "btw ya'll are a group of dangerous terrorist lmfao". And since the anime brought back the dead characters, what are the stakes? Im glad they're back but had they been ultimate despairs of their own free will, then there would have been weight to the ending. They have to live with what they've done and better themselves
Have you ever seen ever after high I think you’d like it🐻
I know about it, but I'm not particularly interested in it. Seems like a fun idea for a story, though! ^_^
Despair bear.
Missed watching your vids, I had school things to do so now I'm binging them all
So about the time stamp mid-video,
You mean chloe's butler when he got angry or junko's fursona?
Welcome back X3
I hope school is going well with you!
Despair bear! and i agree 100%
This is the weirdest thing I don't understand does the anime adaptation ever follow the video game
I'm surprise that no one brought this up here (at least from what I can see) but, I'll say it here. This will contain spoiler.
I think (along with many other) that the Danganronpa Team should've sells the Danganronpa Zero novel.
Based on what I've seen on this video, I think you haven't heard of Danganronpa Zero. (if you have then, my bad, although I think you should've included it in this video!)
Danganronpa Zero is a canon novel written by Kazutaka Kodaka. The story plot is the following; "Ryoko Otonashi, a student who, as a result of "The Tragedy", has anterograde amnesia (the inability to form new memories) and has short-term memory loss. Overseen by the school's Ultimate Neurologist and her childhood sweetheart Yasuke Matsuda, Ryoko becomes embroiled in a vast conspiracy within Hope's Peak Academy, involving the mysterious Izuru Kamukura and "Despair Sisters" Junko Enoshima and Mukuro Ikusaba, as "The Parade" protests arise outside."
Spolier Alerts; Ryoko is actually Junko, brainwashed. The story dead ass explain hoe the brainwashing work in the world of Danganronpa and it been shown in the story as well since Junko predicts that she was going to get brainwashed and one of best despair to feel (according to her) is being betrayed by a love one (which was achieved). Some story elements in Danganronpa Zero can explain thing in Danganronpa 2: Goodbye Despair and Danganronpa 3 anime. Actually, Kodaka recommends to gamers to read Danganronpa Zero before playing the second game as quote "finalized the larger world of Danganronpa, [which] led to the creation of the second game."
So, why have no one ever talk's about Danganronpa Zero often? Unfortunately, Danganronpa Zero was only released in Japan and never gotten an official English translation. Most translation anyone will find is fan translation. If Danganronpa Zero was released with an English translation then people will likely not only read it but find some of the thing in Danganronpa 3 anime make more sense. Actually, I think Danganronpa 3 should've definitely adapted the novel a lot more. That kind of why so many people were mixed with the 3 anime since not having to read Zero would make Junko less cool (at least in my opinion).
Oh wow! That's very fascinating about the novel! Thanks for sharing!
However, I never actually said that brainwashing isn't logical to the Danganronpa world or that its out of place. It fits perfectly well with the technology and shenanigans at play. I was simply presenting the idea of whether or not the more realistic option, brainwashing, was a better idea to go with rather than the "cool" option of Junko individually manipulating everyone ^_^
I think Junko mind controlling them makes her even cooler. The reason she manipulated Ryotawas to have him creat a hypnosis animation, basically game ending 2- well more like 16 birds with one stone. This really shows how manipulative and intelligent she is, if she can influence someone to do something as big as that because she knows it will make things easier (allowing her to focus on other parts of her despair plan), than that just proves how cool she is.
I wouldn’t mind the brainwashing if there was a bit more to it. Like over the course of the show Junko slowly manipulated each classmate & use brainwashing as the final blow. But in the end it looks like the brainwashing was mostly there because the writers thought there weren’t enough episodes to do that so they coped out to brainwashing.
After first Ronpa and novel - i really didnt lost my respect for Junko. First Ronpa already established, that she can use something like that. She wiped out momery of her classmates after all.
I'm not doubting her ability to do the brainwashing, the question of the video was just exploring which option was better? thinking she brainwashed everyone to cause the tragedy? Or causing the tragedy by her manipulating everyone individually?
@@TheArtisticAloubell And i'm saying - they already explore that kind of her side.
She already manipulate one person to take his tools and use in her schemes and this isnt unbelivable scenarion, because there always was the hints of brainwashing (kids in AE, for example)
So, at the moment they realise anime i already has no doubt that this might be the case.
There is a better question in this anime - how they made a belivable for Junko thing so laughable. They use brainwashing anime - this what is baffles many people from my circle and myself.
It's just from "25's frame" conspiracy noncence and bad anime writing isnt even helping.
The problem isnt in "rule of cool" and "awww, she isnt convensed everyone personally?".
Anime itself is a problem. Writing is just bad.
Junko is my favorite character but even I always thought the brainwashing was just... Bullshit.
🐻 I got into Danganronpa for a little time but I never got into it at the same time 🤷♀️ but i like the anime.
I definitely recommend it if you ever get curious again! ^_^
@@TheArtisticAloubell maybe one day I'll get into it again.
Yah i gues your right
Oh btw since you like kokichi and like danganronpa as a whole I'd really like to recommend a free game that is similar to danganronpa (but better in my opinion) it could be played on the browser even on your phone. It's called your turn to die. Death game by majority
I'd really love to see your opinions on it and the characters are more realistic and complex.
I've heard that game flying around. Maybe at some point I'll watch a playthrough of it X3
thanks for the recommendation! ^_^
Yeah, I think with me personally the DR3 anime was not well written, how Junko was handle and just a lot of retcons were made for this anime; I think the concept of Despair Side and Future Side can work if written well (I'd give it 24 episodes each) and could of been something great but instead were left with an anime that did not appease anyone.
If I had to choose between the 'rule of cool' and the realistic option, I'd go with a bit of both myself but not in the way the anime handle it.
The rule of cool - gaslight and manipulate those of Class 77-B or other people, cause horrible events like Twilight Syndrome Murder Case around them and let the characters own flaws be there downfall - like in the games where the blacken's own flaws/trauma/vices were there downfall thus suffer the consequences via Executions and even blackmail those that would get in Junko's way (Juzo) or use brainwashing against those that are strong willed or can't be manipulated easily (Chisa, Ibuki, Nekomaru, Nagito and a few others), even the idea of the Reserve Course getting pissed that there money was being use for a project, even how the video could go viral and knowing mass media/internet and Hope's Peak being such a well known school, it could cause people to act in the name of hope or despair.
Hope: Seeing Izuru Kamukura, the Ultimate Hope kill someone could inspire them to kill.
Despair: Seeing symbols of hope, Ultimates - dying could show people they can kill people for talent and attacking others.
Realistic option - use the brainwashing anime as a last resort, like the brainwashing could have the students kill themselves and also using brainwashing on Class 77-B to make sure the despair actually stuck since DR0 has brought up brainwashing so we can apply that, just like in UDG where the kids wearing helmets are being mind control thus the kids really have no control over there actions and counting that Monaca Towa look up to her big sis, makes way too much sense.
These are just some examples in what I would of change and that way it appeases those that want the 'rule of cool' and the realistic option and there are changes I would of made to the anime but that's about it.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts! You made some good points ^_^
I'm still 50/50 on which I prefer more, the cool or the real here, but I think, overall, it would have been best for them to at least not have retconned stuff. That's when the story starts to fall apart a bit haha
@@TheArtisticAloubell Yeah, personally I do try to go with a middle ground myself when it comes to Danganronpa 3 for the 'rule of cool' or being real.
I do think that there were stuff retcon to make Junko's plan work when it shouldn't have or stuff just didn't make any sense at all, or some that seem really weird especially given what the games/spin off/novel gave us.
Honestly I just pretend that the danganronpa 3 anime never existed
Dispare bear. 🐻
Despair 🐻
😁🙌🌟
I think people fails to see how interesting Junko's whole plan actually is because they focus too much on how she adquired the remnants of despair. They were just a (very small) part of the puzzle in her entire (and way bigger) plan. A plan that included getting connections to specific people in order to get the pieces she needed to make her plan work at wider scale (like Monaka and Towa Group, Yasuke Matsuda, class 77, Mitarai, etc) , creating a huge riot with the reserve course students to hide her own actions in the school, the development of technology and memory experiments that she even applied on herself in order to develop her plan even further, a prototype of killing game with the members of the student council and the nullification of people that could be a threat for her entire plan (like Munakata and his allies, the trustees of Hope's peak academy, etc) and much more.
What makes Junko cool (while also making her plan quite clever and realistic), is to see how she uses her very high intellect to identify people and talents that could be of use to her to make her plan progress smoothly by putting those individuals under her control.
She does this through two main methods:
Exploiting the weakness or secrets of others in order to force them to cooperate (like with Juzo) or make them act in the way she wants them without them even knowing.
And more often, by identifying what other people consider their hope and turning that into their biggest despair.
Mitarai wanted to use his animation techniques to bring hope to the world and that's why she used his work to cause the exact opposite.
Hope's peak created Izuru as the Ultimate Hope and used exactly that to turn everyone against them by calling out the human experiments and use if the foundings getting from the reserve course.
Chiaki became the person that turned the entire class 77 (that at the beginning didn't even spend time with each other) into a really united group even after Chisa was gone. She quite literally became the center (and the hope) that kept class 77 together.
That's why she used Chiaki's death and Ryota's animation techniques to engrave that feeling of despair over her death into their minds. And as shown with Chisa the animation techniques also makes them create a correlation between
The way Junko manipulated and brainwashed others was a part of a way bigger plan that she thought right from the beginning when she first noticed the despair that losing a love one can cause in someone (this is shown in DR0).
And the way she got the remnants of despair wasn't s retcon at all. It was hinted/highly implied in DR0 and with the brainwashing technology shown in UDG. Even Naegi states that they were brainwashed in DR2.
Don't get me wrong, I never thought Junko wasn't threatening and intelligent. Even with the brainwashing, she still had to make all of that happen to even get to that point. Junko is no one to mess with. The literal only flaw to her plan was not knowing how to deal with Makoto.
However, while how she acquired the remnants technically isn't important to the overall story, A LOT of us were interested in how she went about corrupting them to the point where it became important to us. For me, personally, the story isn't broken dependent on how she did it, but it is something that got me thinking enough to where I cared enough about it. Junko was already a threat, but how exactly she got all of these parts to move does play a factor in just how cool or high of a threat she is.
And yes, Makoto did mention they got brainwashed, but because the term "brainwash" is kind of up for interpretation of what they mean by brainwash, MANY people assumed she manipulated the students one by one into falling into despair, which made fans respect her even more. So when they learned that it was a mass brainwashing, they were disappointed. Also, there is a slight retcon in there. AI Junko said that the reserve department was massively in love with her and all killed themselves for her, when, in reality, they all just watched that video and offed themselves. So...that doesn't totally align with what she said.
BUT I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU that regardless, Junko is no one to play around with and she is super calculated in all she does.
@@TheArtisticAloubell
But that's the point. The idea of Junko's manipulation being based on her convincing them to essentially "turn to the dark side" just with words was a missconception created by fans.
The story from UDG with the brainwashing technology, the experiments from DR0 and Makoto's comments about them being brainwashed (right before a game that literally shows to the fans the existence of brainwashing technology in the franchise) were all things leading up to how they got brainwashed using such technology. It wasn't really up for interpretation.
Junko did however manipulated characters just with personality alone into helping her like her childhood friend Yasuke Matsuda, Mukuro, Monaka and the warriors of hope and even Izuru Kamukura. And this is specially important to point out because for her these people were the ones that actually mattered to personally convince since they were essential to achieve the (way bigger) aspects of her plan to make the world fall into despair. The remnants of despair were a very small part of her plan compared to what she got from any of these people: an army of robots and founding from a mega corporation, brainwashing technology, the means to blackmail the trustees of an entire elite school by convincing their artificial pseudo god to work along her, etc).
And as stated in SDR2 she was able to achieve her plan thanks to the fact that she was able to create connections (like the ones I just mentioned) that allowed her to neutralize people that could've potentially be a threath for her plan (Like Munakata, Yuuto Kamishiro, Jin and Kyoko Kirigiri etc).
Most of her work happened in the shadows precisely to avoid detection and using people that she put as her pawns to make her plan go as she wanted ( like Chisa, Juzo, etc).
@@giboit. you make a really good point! Though it all circles back to the fans--especially the ones who never read DR0. Most fans misinterpreted what DR2 meant by "brainwashing" and thus the controversy began because what actually happened didn't live up to expectations. It might be a small detail, but people latched onto that detail and they latched HARD. Especially for the people who love the DR2 cast. They wondered how their favorite characters fell from grace and so that became super huge and important to so many people. So when DR3 happened, they, and me to some extent, were a bit disappointed. Maybe unjustly so, but disappointed nonetheless. Tho like I said in my video, overall, the brainwashing makes more sense to me than her individually convincing each student to turn to despair.
@@TheArtisticAloubell
I get that some fans never read DR0 but even like that there was a whole game showing the existence of brainwashing technology in the story, which is what surprised me because it´s something that some fans decided to collectively ignore somehow XD. In my opinion, it was a mix of (partially) fans not paying enough attention to the story as well the result of the "UDG is just a spin-off" bandwagon that caused the issue. Even if some fans didn´t read DR0, in UDG you´ll notice that the story there just is as important as the one from the other games. Since that game literally explains/connects (and also foreshadows) many really important plot points related to DR1, SDR2 and of course, of the DR3 anime as well.
The DR3 anime didn´t fail to live up to what was actually leading up at all. It showed exactly what the story (up to that point) previously foreshadowed. I get the fans got dissapointed due to the misconception that they created for themselves. But at the end of the day I just think that some people blaming the DR3 anime of bad writing for "retconing" how the students from class 77 became the remnants of despair is not something fair. Since Junko brainwashing them one by one was never what was intended to begin with and the plot points for the existence of the brainwashing technology used to make them fall into despair was there all along.
And I get that they´re fan favorites but I also think that many people seriously missed out on how complex and bigger in scale Junko´s plan actually was when they focus only in the remnants of despair. Even Junko herself doesn´t think that much of them other than being special servants that she just happened to be able to create while she carried out her plan to spread despair to the world. All of it by gathering in the shadows specific people like pieces in a puzzle and predicting their actions to make them do what she needed, turning them into pawns and using them to make her plan a reality. And I find pretty cool how she developed technology that allowed her to put the worse kind of despair (the death of a love one) something that she even experimented on herself to prove its effectiveness into the minds of others permanently. Basically making them extensions of herself. Which is essentially what the students class 77 basically became by the end of DR3.
Bear despair
I like an anime called higurashi more but danganronpa is okay.
I am despair bear 🐻
Despair Bear
X3
Despair bear 🐻 lol
🐻 despair bear :P
😎✨
Despair bear
But anyways, didn't the rule of cool originate from DnD?
I have no idea haha
Despair bear
😎✨
Despair bear 🐻
X3
Despair Bear 🐻
😁✨
🐻 (but I actually finished the video)
Thank you ☺️❤️
Despair bear owo
😎✨
🐻 Despair Bear 🐻
😁✨👍
@@TheArtisticAloubell ^_^ I do enjoy ur videos u and Cyrus have sparked alot of great ideas for some stories I'm writing ^-^
🐼
Tbh yes the dumb video sounds so ridiculous. Like the “you’re being brainwashed” conspiracy thing. There’s no way. Even I wanted to see the video of ultimate despair vs the ultimate hope. It sounded so dumb and made all human characters seem like dumb monkeys. In D1 it was believable even Makoto fell on despair of sorts and everyone from the class. The world ending while their families were nowhere to be found and had to stay on the school to be safe. The second being and showing the flaws of hopes peak and how f up the class system is on the society where even a rich kid who is good would get abused and treated badly just to fight the talent mold. Then the anime f it up cause lol.
Actually, there is one game with a perfect story, called: Undertale
So far your turn to die also has a perfect story too.
(It's a free game that could be played on the browser on any device. It's a lot like danganronpa.)
I'm personally not a huge fan of Undertale, but it certainly has a cool idea and aesthetic!
I know a lot of people do enjoy it!
@@yanoizikawa770 yeah, YTTD is another great game, I don't think the story is perfect, cus has somethings wrong.
@@TheArtisticAloubell did you played it? And did you played Deltarune?