Makes perfect sense. I have a similar practice with my cheap chop saw. The fence is a standard pivoting design, not super stiff, bolted down to the base which is also not super stiff. The screw clamp for the fence is also attached to the not-very-stiff base. When I started using it, I found that using the screw clamp to hold a work piece against the fence could actually flex the base. After giving it some thought, I decided to remove the screw clamp portion entirely, and I just use F-clamps or locking pliers to secure the work piece to the fence. This holds the work piece securely to the fence, but does not introduce any stress into the system, as you don't have one part of the saw base pushing against another part of the saw base.
Jason - I’ve never welded or machined metal outside of grade nine shop class, but you are one of my favourite RUclipsrs ever! I love your approach and thought process in everything you do! Thanks for showing me a part of your world!!
Thanks for explaining that and great detail. I guess I’ve been doing it wrong all these years. Not no more. Lovely short little videos with tips by you.
@@65cj55 are you another person who likes to create arguments.... If you read my comment it says that fireball tools are built with logic and common sense.... It says nothing about any other person or equipment..... Are you a dumbass or just dumb.... And Jason explains why his equipment is the way it is.... So stop being a bellend
@@65cj55 This might hurt your little pea brain, but more than one person can employ common sense and logic in their ideas. Commons sense and logic seem to have evaded you.
I'm not a welder or machinist so I'm learning a lot of (to me) unnecessary things watching your videos. But unlike the things you learn (and forget) in school this is way more fun and at least feels useful. 😄👍
remember to report any spam link comments with youtube's updated report tab. it will be the first option, this is again incase you see any unwanted commerical content/advertising and chatbots
I love how Jason politely dunks on the “experts” in the comments who try to correct him. Watch the follow up to the jack video or the file drag videos for further examples.
Great video as always Jason. I watched all the way until the end hoping you would show the difficulty of removing the welded frame. I really was curious how much the welded frame moved with all the fixturing, stops, clamps, and such. I'm no fabricator by any means, but that top tubing had to have some bow to it after welding. My thought would be to actually back bow it a slight amount so when fully welded, it would come out near straight. Could you share a short video of the assembly fully welded? Any mishaps you didn't think of? Is it straight without the need for pulling or pushing? Always appreciate your transparency in videos.
If using a slotted fixture like that we would usually design it to bottom out at one of the ends. If using holes it’s even easier. Obviously not the only way to go but something to think about. Nice video tho
Professor Jason nail's it. Thanks for sharing. I gotta start drilling some 5/8" in. holes is my welding table, with my Magnetic Drill, and purchase some of those fixtures.
I wonder if you can make a template to get the spacing perfect on the holes. I think bluco tables are made in a big CNC mill, so the hole pattern is very precise. I'm not familiar with mag drills, but perhaps if you made an initial hole normally by hand measuring, and then had some fixture that could locate your drill in that hole and align it perfectly for the next one. I suppose if you use slotted bluco fixtures only, it wouldn't matter if your hole spacing is precise... However it would be nice to at least have a few sets of holes that are in a perfect box pattern in order to allow you to get precise 90 and 45 degree angles. Sorry for the long comment, but I was thinking about the same thing and was curious how you planned on doing it.
@@somethingelse4424 First lets define accuracy. is it 0.001" in., (one thousandth of an inch) plus or minus, or are we talking 0.0001" in. (one-ten-thousandth of an inch,) or are we talking 99 percent of welder's, working on projects, world wide, where plus or minus a 1/16" in. (0.0625" in.) is the world they live, breathe and work in. Unless your working for NASA, where every day, you have to re-qualify before beginning work on said NASA project for that day. Next day rinse and repeat. A mag drill = Magnetic (electric Magnetic Base, turn Magnet on, turn Magnet off. I give you Magnetic Drill Base for Dummies 101) Drill Press. So the question would be how accurate can you Layout a "Patten" say one inch (2.54 cm / 25.4 mm) spacing, and then drill said layout either by hand or using a Mag Drill. If you can't layout a pattern, this conversation is over. Big name company's brag their item was made on a CNC this or that. Well we all know, CNC this or that machines on their own don't form Unions, they don't ask for pay-raises, don't get in fights with their wives, etc. But CNC machines are accurate as hell, and very repeatable, unlike those low-life hoomans. (spelling intended FOOL.) Did I mention that those CNC machines, when it's 98 degree's {36.6 °C} out, and Humidity is approx. also 98 percent, they don't sweat either. This is my shocked face. So, unless your very anal about "perfectly-precise," and one-ten-thousandth of an inch, keeps you awake at night, don't even try it. Shaking my head in total disbelief. "Perfectly-precise," to prevent creating worm-holes in that time continuum thing my ARSE. As a member in good standing of the great American Deplorable(s) (thank you Hillary Clintoon) & UN-WASHED, Drill baby, Drill baby. Drill for oil, and Drill the dam holes in your welding table.😎
@@stanwooddave9758 I'd have to check what the tolerances on the holes in the "non slotted" type of bluco fixtures are. I'm guessing if you could keep your hole spacing error to +/- 0.005", you could use more than just the slotted type if you drill a little bit oversized. Maybe you already know this, but I also think the pins need to have something for the balls to bite into, so your weld table needs to be a certain thickness in order to use them.
Well theoretically both ways can deform the walls of the material if it’s too thin or a small contact patch especially when welding and heat is applied. Your way can lift the tube off the table if the wall is deformed as well. The best way is probably use multiple clamps with lighter pressure on the wall or use a v block style clamp forcing the load into 2 walls on each side of the clamp at a 45deg. Just my $0.02
@@Fireball2ool Awesome to see your interaction with your viewers. You always have cool ideas, hopefully ill be able to purchase your welding table and fixtures when I get my own home shop setup and am able to reinvest in tools.
@@nigelsmith7366 I didn't think much of it. I was just being comical since I'm one who buys a new snapon tool (when I'm granted the purchase ok from the significant other due to the uncontrollable starbucks purchases I argue) then I look at it, use it lightly on the easy task and heavily clean them as I have many other tools to do the same job or ones that already carry battle scars 🤐 😂
Counterpoint is you lose the benefit of it being a jig. You’d need to adjust and reset every single time due to both sides being adjustable. No problem if you are only making one piece, but then do you really need a fixture table anyway?
Great tid-bit's,,but I got distracted admiring your awesome fixture / welding table (@@)! All I would need it more shop square footage to have one :)> Bear
Haha, yes exactly! I think that table would take up my entire shop. I guess you could just set it on the ground, and just have it be the floor... Then you can just sweep your chips down in the holes lol. Actually now that I think about it, these are usually hollow so maybe you could slide some clean out trays in there like a grill.
what is the pitch of your serrated washer . that limits the infinity clamp to predefined positions. basically the pitch of the washer teeth. so say 1/16 of an inch if that is your pitch.you can't move it 1/32 .
they need a upgrade on the older table saws the rip fence would move after repeated rips ..maybe 1/16 too 1/8 of a inch but finish work that is a lot ..
What if your material is bowed or bent? Or flat bar stock on edge? You might have to push it sideways into position. Also fillet welds can pull the material out from underneath the clamp in some instances. It’s good practice to clamp in both directions if possible
For some stuff thats good and for some stuff having the flexibility to move clamps around like this can be useful especially if your welding oddly shaped things where vertical clamping is less convenient
@@philmenzies2477 because my tape measure confirmed it was correct after I clamped it down....it's called "trust, but verify"... I work on a stronghand buildpro table every day, as do others in my shop, and no one sideways clamps like this....only in the rarest of occasions will you need to throw a vise grip clamp on a fixture piece ..and it's usually on the 8" or 12" fixtures when you start getting up above the table surface..... clamping down to the table is def best practice Jason's argument above about straightening bent or bowed material and fillet welds being able to pull is flawed, because if you try and flatten a bent piece then weld it, as soon as you remove it, your part is going to distort....that stress is going to transfer to other places now....also fillet welds will ALWAYS pull, and you'll never be able to counteract it on a fixture table with tiny clamps.....that why skilled fabricators sequence their welds to minimize distortion, and pulling from weld shrinkage. You can't stop metal movement, only work with it.
@@65cj55 check his other videos he made a new square .. for clamping and welding .. it is much better system then what they had 10 years ago ..he is not trying to reinvent the wheel ,, Jason is just making better tools to work with .. aka working on a pallet or a nice level table Jason made the table ,, as far as the size of the pegs to go into the table there was small / too small for most / then there was large / too large for most workers at home .. so Jason made a system that gets the best parts from both systems and made a great system ,,, if I had the money to get the table and clamps I would get it asap I could use it almost every day ,, living check to check it;s hard to save the $$ up ..his video on the table shows how it works it is very simple too use it is not complicated ..
@@randytravis3998 Nah he won’t. That fool just wants to create controversy where there isn’t any. The type fool with never anything positive to say. Just check all his comments.
@@randytravis3998 47 years as a Fabricator and never had a issue, i have similar Squares and fixtures i built over 30 years ago, and Welding Tables etc, have been around a long time, none of this is new, but i understand some People have to have the latest & greatest of everything.
Makes perfect sense. I have a similar practice with my cheap chop saw.
The fence is a standard pivoting design, not super stiff, bolted down to the base which is also not super stiff. The screw clamp for the fence is also attached to the not-very-stiff base. When I started using it, I found that using the screw clamp to hold a work piece against the fence could actually flex the base.
After giving it some thought, I decided to remove the screw clamp portion entirely, and I just use F-clamps or locking pliers to secure the work piece to the fence. This holds the work piece securely to the fence, but does not introduce any stress into the system, as you don't have one part of the saw base pushing against another part of the saw base.
Jason - I’ve never welded or machined metal outside of grade nine shop class, but you are one of my favourite RUclipsrs ever! I love your approach and thought process in everything you do! Thanks for showing me a part of your world!!
Grade 9 shop class?????? What? And I f ing had spanish 😂 where'd you go?
@@jessyltr581 given that they said "grade 9" instead of "9th grade" I'd guess probably somewhere in Canada
Check out your local makerspace. You can put some of these skills into practice again
Thanks for explaining that and great detail. I guess I’ve been doing it wrong all these years. Not no more. Lovely short little videos with tips by you.
It never ceases to amaze me how you have thought of every detail!!! Awesome
Nothing more clear then a simple demonstration ! Thanks for sharing
It's common sense and logic behind all of Fireball tools equipment
Keep up the good work
So up until now, no fabricator had common sense and logic ?
@@65cj55 are you another person who likes to create arguments.... If you read my comment it says that fireball tools are built with logic and common sense.... It says nothing about any other person or equipment..... Are you a dumbass or just dumb.... And Jason explains why his equipment is the way it is.... So stop being a bellend
@@65cj55 Did he say that? No. He stated a fact.
@@grntitan1 What fact ?
@@65cj55 This might hurt your little pea brain, but more than one person can employ common sense and logic in their ideas. Commons sense and logic seem to have evaded you.
I'm not a welder or machinist so I'm learning a lot of (to me) unnecessary things watching your videos.
But unlike the things you learn (and forget) in school this is way more fun and at least feels useful. 😄👍
I faced the same problem before with tso fixture no matter how hard you tightened it will always move. Finally there is a solution.
remember to report any spam link comments with youtube's updated report tab. it will be the first option, this is again incase you see any unwanted commerical content/advertising and chatbots
Never will use or need this, but what you told makes absolutely sense and it's probably something many people might not realize.
@2:14 if anything the only "force" it exerts is to make the bracket tighter to the work piece
I love how Jason politely dunks on the “experts” in the comments who try to correct him. Watch the follow up to the jack video or the file drag videos for further examples.
I love the look of the adaptive tool path on the face of that part 👌
Great video as always Jason. I watched all the way until the end hoping you would show the difficulty of removing the welded frame. I really was curious how much the welded frame moved with all the fixturing, stops, clamps, and such. I'm no fabricator by any means, but that top tubing had to have some bow to it after welding. My thought would be to actually back bow it a slight amount so when fully welded, it would come out near straight.
Could you share a short video of the assembly fully welded? Any mishaps you didn't think of? Is it straight without the need for pulling or pushing?
Always appreciate your transparency in videos.
That a cool idea.
Kind regards buddy from London UK 🇬🇧
If using a slotted fixture like that we would usually design it to bottom out at one of the ends. If using holes it’s even easier. Obviously not the only way to go but something to think about. Nice video tho
This makes sense. You do have to bring the end more forward if you use the clamp on the rail.
Man, you know what you're talking about! Thanks for this very interesting lesson, although i'm not a welder
Great product explanation.
Professor Jason nail's it. Thanks for sharing. I gotta start drilling some 5/8" in. holes is my welding table, with my Magnetic Drill, and purchase some of those fixtures.
I wonder if you can make a template to get the spacing perfect on the holes. I think bluco tables are made in a big CNC mill, so the hole pattern is very precise. I'm not familiar with mag drills, but perhaps if you made an initial hole normally by hand measuring, and then had some fixture that could locate your drill in that hole and align it perfectly for the next one. I suppose if you use slotted bluco fixtures only, it wouldn't matter if your hole spacing is precise... However it would be nice to at least have a few sets of holes that are in a perfect box pattern in order to allow you to get precise 90 and 45 degree angles. Sorry for the long comment, but I was thinking about the same thing and was curious how you planned on doing it.
@@somethingelse4424 First lets define accuracy. is it 0.001" in., (one thousandth of an inch) plus or minus, or are we talking 0.0001" in. (one-ten-thousandth of an inch,) or are we talking 99 percent of welder's, working on projects, world wide, where plus or minus a 1/16" in. (0.0625" in.) is the world they live, breathe and work in. Unless your working for NASA, where every day, you have to re-qualify before beginning work on said NASA project for that day. Next day rinse and repeat. A mag drill = Magnetic (electric Magnetic Base, turn Magnet on, turn Magnet off. I give you Magnetic Drill Base for Dummies 101) Drill Press. So the question would be how accurate can you Layout a "Patten" say one inch (2.54 cm / 25.4 mm) spacing, and then drill said layout either by hand or using a Mag Drill. If you can't layout a pattern, this conversation is over. Big name company's brag their item was made on a CNC this or that. Well we all know, CNC this or that machines on their own don't form Unions, they don't ask for pay-raises, don't get in fights with their wives, etc. But CNC machines are accurate as hell, and very repeatable, unlike those low-life hoomans. (spelling intended FOOL.) Did I mention that those CNC machines, when it's 98 degree's {36.6 °C} out, and Humidity is approx. also 98 percent, they don't sweat either. This is my shocked face. So, unless your very anal about "perfectly-precise," and one-ten-thousandth of an inch, keeps you awake at night, don't even try it. Shaking my head in total disbelief. "Perfectly-precise," to prevent creating worm-holes in that time continuum thing my ARSE. As a member in good standing of the great American Deplorable(s) (thank you Hillary Clintoon) & UN-WASHED, Drill baby, Drill baby. Drill for oil, and Drill the dam holes in your welding table.😎
@@stanwooddave9758 I'd have to check what the tolerances on the holes in the "non slotted" type of bluco fixtures are. I'm guessing if you could keep your hole spacing error to +/- 0.005", you could use more than just the slotted type if you drill a little bit oversized. Maybe you already know this, but I also think the pins need to have something for the balls to bite into, so your weld table needs to be a certain thickness in order to use them.
@@stanwooddave9758 I’m pretty sure he’s gone for 3/4 inch pins and fixtures.🇬🇧
Well theoretically both ways can deform the walls of the material if it’s too thin or a small contact patch especially when welding and heat is applied. Your way can lift the tube off the table if the wall is deformed as well. The best way is probably use multiple clamps with lighter pressure on the wall or use a v block style clamp forcing the load into 2 walls on each side of the clamp at a 45deg.
Just my $0.02
Yes 45 degree clamping is great if you have positive backstop or fireball tooth block. Just be careful of the slot fixtures.
@@Fireball2ool Awesome to see your interaction with your viewers. You always have cool ideas, hopefully ill be able to purchase your welding table and fixtures when I get my own home shop setup and am able to reinvest in tools.
@@davidrule1335 Very true but who buys Snapon because they have to? 😁
@@ProjectAnubisUSA David was a little butt hurt and ran away 😭🤣🤣🤣he left a snide rubbish reply to my comment also 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@nigelsmith7366 I didn't think much of it. I was just being comical since I'm one who buys a new snapon tool (when I'm granted the purchase ok from the significant other due to the uncontrollable starbucks purchases I argue) then I look at it, use it lightly on the easy task and heavily clean them as I have many other tools to do the same job or ones that already carry battle scars 🤐 😂
You could use s second pusher behind the slotted fixture, then it’s pusher vs. pusher. You also get “fine adjust” of the location on the slot.
that makes too much sense and solves the problem his $800 tool does
Counterpoint is you lose the benefit of it being a jig. You’d need to adjust and reset every single time due to both sides being adjustable. No problem if you are only making one piece, but then do you really need a fixture table anyway?
Great demo. Thanks!
I have used a pusher on the back side. You can set it for distortion easy that way.
Man, I love that table... and all those clampy doodads.
You really know your stuff!
Does that clamp not pull the fixture out of square? Its must do to some degree (no pun intended) because its pulls from a higher point
Great tid-bit's,,but I got distracted admiring your awesome fixture / welding table (@@)! All I would need it more shop square footage to have one :)> Bear
Haha, yes exactly! I think that table would take up my entire shop. I guess you could just set it on the ground, and just have it be the floor... Then you can just sweep your chips down in the holes lol. Actually now that I think about it, these are usually hollow so maybe you could slide some clean out trays in there like a grill.
Jason as an amateur fabricator your videos are perfect. Thank you so much for the help over the years.
Ah yes, the power of the inclined plane.
Do you have customers that use you table and fixtures doing wood construction?
For sure! Any trade can use the table system
Good stuff 👍.
what is the pitch of your serrated washer . that limits the infinity clamp to predefined positions. basically the pitch of the washer teeth. so say 1/16 of an inch if that is your pitch.you can't move it 1/32 .
Very true. Awesome system
Then it could pull the stop instead of the piece of material…either way, cool videos and a great way to sell tools.
Very cool, thank you!
Damn but I like your videos!
But surely if the pusher is strong enough to move the fixture then it would easily move with warping
Yes slot fixtures can move from weld pull. That’s why the tooth block is necessary.
I wish I could afford one of those clamps😄👍👍
they need a upgrade on the older table saws the rip fence would move after repeated rips ..maybe 1/16 too 1/8 of a inch but finish work that is a lot ..
Thanks
Is it wrong if it works ?
Everyone who asked must never have never welded but you’ve certainly helped them….
Makes sense I love your vids
Wonderful
or two side-pushers?
Or just clamp vertically to the table, and use your fixtures only for reference and location....
What if your material is bowed or bent? Or flat bar stock on edge? You might have to push it sideways into position. Also fillet welds can pull the material out from underneath the clamp in some instances. It’s good practice to clamp in both directions if possible
For some stuff thats good and for some stuff having the flexibility to move clamps around like this can be useful especially if your welding oddly shaped things where vertical clamping is less convenient
How can you be sure your reference/location is positive if you are not clamped to it?
@@philmenzies2477 because my tape measure confirmed it was correct after I clamped it down....it's called "trust, but verify"... I work on a stronghand buildpro table every day, as do others in my shop, and no one sideways clamps like this....only in the rarest of occasions will you need to throw a vise grip clamp on a fixture piece ..and it's usually on the 8" or 12" fixtures when you start getting up above the table surface..... clamping down to the table is def best practice
Jason's argument above about straightening bent or bowed material and fillet welds being able to pull is flawed, because if you try and flatten a bent piece then weld it, as soon as you remove it, your part is going to distort....that stress is going to transfer to other places now....also fillet welds will ALWAYS pull, and you'll never be able to counteract it on a fixture table with tiny clamps.....that why skilled fabricators sequence their welds to minimize distortion, and pulling from weld shrinkage. You can't stop metal movement, only work with it.
So your saying that side clamping is unnecessary? That down pressure is all you need for everything?
👍
Fire ball university
More rigid the better
⭐🙂👍
You're trying to reinvent the Wheel, and make it way more complicated.
Actually I reinvented the square.
@@Fireball2ool How, were all others not Square ?
@@65cj55 check his other videos he made a new square .. for clamping and welding .. it is much better system then what they had 10 years ago ..he is not trying to reinvent the wheel ,, Jason is just making better tools to work with .. aka working on a pallet or a nice level table Jason made the table ,, as far as the size of the pegs to go into the table there was small / too small for most / then there was large / too large for most workers at home .. so Jason made a system that gets the best parts from both systems and made a great system ,,, if I had the money to get the table and clamps I would get it asap I could use it almost every day ,, living check to check it;s hard to save the $$ up ..his video on the table shows how it works it is very simple too use it is not complicated ..
@@randytravis3998 Nah he won’t. That fool just wants to create controversy where there isn’t any. The type fool with never anything positive to say. Just check all his comments.
@@randytravis3998 47 years as a Fabricator and never had a issue, i have similar Squares and fixtures i built over 30 years ago, and Welding Tables etc, have been around a long time, none of this is new, but i understand some People have to have the latest & greatest of everything.