A friend of mine gives me these "droppings" of steel bar. They are little pieces trimmed off bar stock that is left over after certain bars are cut to length at this mill he works at. They are most commonly 1 1/4 inch diameter round bars 3 to 6 inches long of 4340 chromoly. I used to be an aircraft mechanic and I am familiar with the common 4130 as well as 4140, which I think is what Liam Hoffman uses for his hatchets and axes. His shop is just over the state line near Boone NC from hear in the most extreme eastern point of Tn. 4340, from what I could gather, is 4140 with some added nickle for toughness. I believe the tensile strength goes from 125,000 psi for the 4140 to 165,000 for the 4340. 4130 is what your typical truss and fabric frame from a Piper Cub, for example, is made of. When training to become an A&P Airframe and Powerplant mechanic we had to be able to oxy-acetylene weld up to three bars of joining tubes into a single bar type of truss joint, Each bar end has to be carefully ground or filed down to mate up perfectly with the common bar running longitudinally and the two other bars coming in from top and the opposing side. Then, when you had those four bars clamped in place, you weld it all up with a simple oxy-acetylene set up. The instructor would look it over and give it a grade, then take a hatchet and with one swift blow would severely damage your newly welded truss joint. Then you would return to your station, consult the manual of standards and practices, come up with a fix and be able to document where you get permission to effect this kind of repair. You can't just fix it as you see fit. There were edge distances that had to be precise and rivet spacing and how far the rivets had to be from the edge Thicknesses of the patch you use and precise alloy used. In this case it would just concern making a patch and welding it in place in such a way that conforms to the manual of standards and practices. We pretty much had to become proficient at at all types of Oxy-acetylene welding before we were allowed to move on to the stick and tig welding setups. I remember my extreme frustration when I was working on a personal project after hours with the arc welder. It was a barbell plate holder/stand made of 3x3x1/4 inch thick angle iron with one face of a triangle slanting away from you and I was attempting to but weld small 1 inch x 12 inch 4130 chromoly tubing to this angle iron with an arc welder. I actually somewhat got them welded in place but the tubing was littered with holes where I'd burned through. It looked awful. We had to pay a minimal fee to use the facilities for our personal use but it was cheap and encouraged. I'd first failed miserably at what I thought was my strongest hand with the Oxy=acetylene. Couldn't do it at all. Then had my but handed to me by the Arc machine. To make matters worse, when I bought the tubing, I thought I was getting mild steel but I was actually getting 4130 chromoly and let me tell you it's way more expensive. I took it to my instructor and he laughed when he saw it and after offering a few pointers told me to take it to the tig machine and I wouldn't be charged anything further for the use of what was the most expensive welding equipment they had, and he said it would be considered as part of my training hours. I took it to the tig and like, immediately, it was like a bright light bulb going off above my head. I was able to zip all around those four one foot lengths of extremely overqualified barbell plate holder tubing and it looked pretty good. I've been trying my hand at this Blacksmithing thing for about a year now. I'm reasonably satisfied with my progress so far. Does anyone have any experience with this 4340. I treat it like 4140 and it responds great. I've made several small hammers with it that seem to perform well so far, definitely hard enough without being too hard for your anvil. I made a very nice hammer eye drift out of it that seems to be working pretty well so far. I made my first attempt at a hatchet type axe type forging by turning one of these inch and a quarter thick, three and a half inch long sections of 4340 into a pretty nice tomahawk type hatchet. I used hickory I cut off my own land to make the handle. The cutting edge is about 3 inches with the length being around 5 and a half inches. I made it as a Christmas gift for my girlfriend. She loves it. She's into that sort of thing lucky for me. I restored a couple of her late father's axes. One was a Sager double bit cruiser and the other was a full sized Kelly True Temper double bit. I also carved new hickory handles for them. She keeps them hanging on her wall along with a small very rusty hatchet I found buried in my barn. I went wild and carved a ratical up and down pattern, that while I'll admit looks pretty cool, it just didn't perform well at all. There was no place I could grab it and feel comfortable. She wouldn't let me take it off and it now it hangs with her other two double bit axes on her wall, so ergonomics doesn't really figure into the equation. Love your channel! I couldn't even begin to know how to do any of this if it weren't for channels like yours and Black Bear Forge or Liam's channel. These channels are a tremendous wealth of knowledge and instruction being produced by people uniquely gifted with the ability to teach others. That is something many don't understand. The people who are truly gifted with the ability to teach others are fairly rare. Really good instructors are very hard to find in any profession and that's what we have here on these channels for free! I'm a bit surprised by Daniels subscriber numbers, considering how good of a channel this is. Maybe they are about to hit that accelerator of exponential expansion as the word gets about how good this channel is. Regardless, I consider this channel to be very good and I greatly appreciate it. I would like to say thank you very much.
Approximately ten years ago the scrap price for steel in Canada was only five cents a pound. Lathe tools are made of high speed steel. This can also be found in drill bits.
Respect for showing the not ideal hand position Dan. I admire your honesty dude.! Just shows what this all means to you. Top man. Another great video mate 😀👍🏻
Great to see you working alongside Tim of Big Dog forge, great bloke, he sent me some Borax, all the way from the states, he's definitely one of the good guys
Great video I get 1045 from the local machine shop for tools. Have a buddy there. I run scrap in from the farm and save some stuff to forge. If you get time can you tell me the dimensions on the upper and lower dies on your power hammer? I started building one and need some help on what type of steel and dimensions to get. Thanks
Great video! For those that are close to the oilfields great lengths of sucker rod in various diameters are used and are usually available at scrap prices. Locally here in Dallas Texas I can pick up 24 ft of 3/4 for $11. This is 4130-40 great stuff to make tools from, and water hardened.
Hey Dan Nice video mate. I took your advice and found a repairer that is happy to supply me with heaps of truck tines very cheap so thank you !!! During the video you say that fork lift tine "is water hardening, its oil hardening" Which quenching method would you recommend for hardening hammers.
You use H13 because you have a power hammer! I use leaf springs from armored cars. They are enormous and I treat them as if I am using 5160. Great steel for axes, dies and knives. I’m building a smithing magician designed to fit that stock.
Thanks Dan. Great video as always. H13 might be fun to play with I don't know if I can get that around here. There's a metal company Coeur d'Alene Metals right by me I might have to go see if they have any.They sell all their scrap for $0.55 a pound no matter what it is.
Question: why are solid fuel forfes wide open? Any reason why they aren't enclosed to keep the heat from going anywhere? (Similar to the gas forges, with gaps and doors of course)
Gary Birtwistle I've made quite a few striking anvils from forklift tine. They also cut up perfect for hammer head stock. Just gotta make sure to keep the metal hot and remember proper hammering techniques.
Dan, I'm a stonemason, I use truck coil springs for chisels to cut hard limestone . Are fork lift tines similar to EN9 - that's what I use at the moment. Many thanks
trustinJesus I think it's a little bit higher than EN 9 it has a carbon content of about 0.6% putting it aboutvthe en19 range. But truck coil spring is amazing stuff. much harder than tine also works great Un heat treated for punchs.
Question: twice now I've seen that the hammer face has a hollow in it, any particular reason for this? One was fullered in, didn't see if this one was or not. Maybe something like the start of a cold shunt and ground out? But if that's the case, then why fuller one in?
Hey Dan. I'm curious about using Forklift tines for making hammers. Are they suitable for making struck tools? Like hammer eye punches, flatters, chisels, swages etc. What if I made a hammer from forklift tine and used it to repeatedly strike a hammer eye punch also made of tine? If it's a work hardening steel as you say, what do you think the chances of it hardening enough to splinter on impact at some point in it's life and causing injury? I'm hoping it's unlikely, as a forklift tine or two is a fair chunk of material for tooling if I get my hands on one! :)
Also. What about for use as an avil? Considering layering and welding to build something. Similar to what this guy is doing, but I think I'll go about it slightly differently (mainly, I would think about keeping the layers horizontal rather than vertical, and most likely 100% tine, no mild) --> ruclips.net/video/fcE7kDpmzYM/видео.html
Hey Dan another great video again mate. I'm a beginner smith so always looking for CHEAP steel to learn with. I have got and can get heaps of VERY CHEAP railway track. What type of steel is it and given its large thickness is it suitable for making hammers with? If not what is it useful for mate. Cheers Andy From FORGE WRIGHT
Thanks so much for this, especially as a Brit. The en numbers really helps as it's always aisi numbers on RUclips and they don't always equate. I think I can get hold of en24 and en8 what sort of tools are a good choice in en8? Thanks again!
You nearly made eating butties a lot trickier for yourself then bloke :) Fair play on showing it though, and explaining why it was wrong. Ready made guillotine if a handle breaks. Moo would have thrown something heavy at me and called me a wombat. Good info on the magic metals. I've got over a quarter of a tonne of EN36 I got for scrap prices from a retiring die/tool maker years ago. Hot rolled square bar in various dimensions from about 6 foot of 5 inch square down to two inch bars a foot or more long. Some is going to be used for the power hammer build, but happy to let you have some when you're down this way if you can find a use.
I am sorry if I missed the mention of it, but is there a scrap source for H13 steel? I am curious about the main rod, inside of a hydrolic cylinder. I am sure they have a very high chrome content at least. Thank you for any information!
drason69 most hydraulic rams have a hard chrome finish. The contain very little chrome. I would say try stainless steel but due to the lack of iron and carbon stainless is quite soft compared to H13. I don't know a reliable way to get scrape H13. Sorry dude.
A friend of mine gives me these "droppings" of steel bar. They are little pieces trimmed off bar stock that is left over after certain bars are cut to length at this mill he works at. They are most commonly 1 1/4 inch diameter round bars 3 to 6 inches long of 4340 chromoly. I used to be an aircraft mechanic and I am familiar with the common 4130 as well as 4140, which I think is what Liam Hoffman uses for his hatchets and axes. His shop is just over the state line near Boone NC from hear in the most extreme eastern point of Tn. 4340, from what I could gather, is 4140 with some added nickle for toughness. I believe the tensile strength goes from 125,000 psi for the 4140 to 165,000 for the 4340. 4130 is what your typical truss and fabric frame from a Piper Cub, for example, is made of. When training to become an A&P Airframe and Powerplant mechanic we had to be able to oxy-acetylene weld up to three bars of joining tubes into a single bar type of truss joint, Each bar end has to be carefully ground or filed down to mate up perfectly with the common bar running longitudinally and the two other bars coming in from top and the opposing side. Then, when you had those four bars clamped in place, you weld it all up with a simple oxy-acetylene set up. The instructor would look it over and give it a grade, then take a hatchet and with one swift blow would severely damage your newly welded truss joint. Then you would return to your station, consult the manual of standards and practices, come up with a fix and be able to document where you get permission to effect this kind of repair. You can't just fix it as you see fit. There were edge distances that had to be precise and rivet spacing and how far the rivets had to be from the edge Thicknesses of the patch you use and precise alloy used. In this case it would just concern making a patch and welding it in place in such a way that conforms to the manual of standards and practices. We pretty much had to become proficient at at all types of Oxy-acetylene welding before we were allowed to move on to the stick and tig welding setups. I remember my extreme frustration when I was working on a personal project after hours with the arc welder. It was a barbell plate holder/stand made of 3x3x1/4 inch thick angle iron with one face of a triangle slanting away from you and I was attempting to but weld small 1 inch x 12 inch 4130 chromoly tubing to this angle iron with an arc welder. I actually somewhat got them welded in place but the tubing was littered with holes where I'd burned through. It looked awful. We had to pay a minimal fee to use the facilities for our personal use but it was cheap and encouraged. I'd first failed miserably at what I thought was my strongest hand with the Oxy=acetylene. Couldn't do it at all. Then had my but handed to me by the Arc machine. To make matters worse, when I bought the tubing, I thought I was getting mild steel but I was actually getting 4130 chromoly and let me tell you it's way more expensive. I took it to my instructor and he laughed when he saw it and after offering a few pointers told me to take it to the tig machine and I wouldn't be charged anything further for the use of what was the most expensive welding equipment they had, and he said it would be considered as part of my training hours. I took it to the tig and like, immediately, it was like a bright light bulb going off above my head. I was able to zip all around those four one foot lengths of extremely overqualified barbell plate holder tubing and it looked pretty good.
I've been trying my hand at this Blacksmithing thing for about a year now. I'm reasonably satisfied with my progress so far. Does anyone have any experience with this 4340. I treat it like 4140 and it responds great. I've made several small hammers with it that seem to perform well so far, definitely hard enough without being too hard for your anvil. I made a very nice hammer eye drift out of it that seems to be working pretty well so far. I made my first attempt at a hatchet type axe type forging by turning one of these inch and a quarter thick, three and a half inch long sections of 4340 into a pretty nice tomahawk type hatchet. I used hickory I cut off my own land to make the handle. The cutting edge is about 3 inches with the length being around 5 and a half inches. I made it as a Christmas gift for my girlfriend. She loves it. She's into that sort of thing lucky for me. I restored a couple of her late father's axes. One was a Sager double bit cruiser and the other was a full sized Kelly True Temper double bit. I also carved new hickory handles for them. She keeps them hanging on her wall along with a small very rusty hatchet I found buried in my barn. I went wild and carved a ratical up and down pattern, that while I'll admit looks pretty cool, it just didn't perform well at all. There was no place I could grab it and feel comfortable. She wouldn't let me take it off and it now it hangs with her other two double bit axes on her wall, so ergonomics doesn't really figure into the equation. Love your channel! I couldn't even begin to know how to do any of this if it weren't for channels like yours and Black Bear Forge or Liam's channel. These channels are a tremendous wealth of knowledge and instruction being produced by people uniquely gifted with the ability to teach others. That is something many don't understand. The people who are truly gifted with the ability to teach others are fairly rare. Really good instructors are very hard to find in any profession and that's what we have here on these channels for free! I'm a bit surprised by Daniels subscriber numbers, considering how good of a channel this is. Maybe they are about to hit that accelerator of exponential expansion as the word gets about how good this channel is. Regardless, I consider this channel to be very good and I greatly appreciate it. I would like to say thank you very much.
Caught you a second time, putting hand under the hammer when you put the block in so you could remove your drift. @5:40-5:45 around there.
Approximately ten years ago the scrap price for steel in Canada was only five cents a pound.
Lathe tools are made of high speed steel. This can also be found in drill bits.
Respect for showing the not ideal hand position Dan. I admire your honesty dude.! Just shows what this all means to you. Top man.
Another great video mate 😀👍🏻
Thanks Dan. My most used is 4140 , O1 and 5160
Great to see you working alongside Tim of Big Dog forge, great bloke, he sent me some Borax, all the way from the states, he's definitely one of the good guys
Great video Daniel.
Thanks Dan, Good information, Enjoyed the video.
Great video I get 1045 from the local machine shop for tools. Have a buddy there. I run scrap in from the farm and save some stuff to forge. If you get time can you tell me the dimensions on the upper and lower dies on your power hammer? I started building one and need some help on what type of steel and dimensions to get. Thanks
Love it ! Thanks Dan great video.
Great video! For those that are close to the oilfields great lengths of sucker rod in various diameters are used and are usually available at scrap prices. Locally here in Dallas Texas I can pick up 24 ft of 3/4 for $11. This is 4130-40 great stuff to make tools from, and water hardened.
fred cole im in the dallas area, where do you find that?
Oh my I would love some h13!
Hey Dan Nice video mate. I took your advice and found a repairer that is happy to supply me with heaps of truck tines very cheap so thank you !!!
During the video you say that fork lift tine "is water hardening, its oil hardening" Which quenching method would you recommend for hardening hammers.
So far I've been making punches and chisels from 5/8" coil spring. I just got an axle shaft that I might try making a small hammer out of for my kids.
Great video Dan
You use H13 because you have a power hammer! I use leaf springs from armored cars. They are enormous and I treat them as if I am using 5160. Great steel for axes, dies and knives. I’m building a smithing magician designed to fit that stock.
I also would like to inow the best way to cut the tines. I have a hard time keeping my cuts straight with my portable bandsaw😖
Great info Dan
Thanks Dan. Great video as always. H13 might be fun to play with I don't know if I can get that around here. There's a metal company Coeur d'Alene Metals right by me I might have to go see if they have any.They sell all their scrap for $0.55 a pound no matter what it is.
Dan nice looking hammers as always, thanks for the knowledge on steel, really helpful.
Thanks 👍
Informative and fun! Thanks Dan!
Question: why are solid fuel forfes wide open? Any reason why they aren't enclosed to keep the heat from going anywhere? (Similar to the gas forges, with gaps and doors of course)
Hi Dan what do you cut your fork tines with .
Ha this must be the one! Forklift tines rock, they make awesome anvil shaped objects too way better than rr tracks
Gary Birtwistle I've made quite a few striking anvils from forklift tine. They also cut up perfect for hammer head stock. Just gotta make sure to keep the metal hot and remember proper hammering techniques.
Dan, I have a forklift repairer at work. He passes all the fork tines my way. But it is tough to cut, do you use a special blade on your bandsaw?
Awesome information! A buddy of mine services fork trucks. He offered me some fork truck tines. Was wondering what I could do with them!
Brent Legg every thing! you can uses it for every thing. not knife but every thing else. hahahaha
Sounds awesome! I shall make everything then!!! Hahaha
Great video. Very informative. Thank you!
Smashing info. Cheers dude.
Dan, I'm a stonemason, I use truck coil springs for chisels to cut hard limestone . Are fork lift tines similar to EN9 - that's what I use at the moment. Many thanks
trustinJesus I think it's a little bit higher than EN 9 it has a carbon content of about 0.6% putting it aboutvthe en19 range. But truck coil spring is amazing stuff. much harder than tine also works great Un heat treated for punchs.
Have you ever used truck axles or drive shafts?
Question: twice now I've seen that the hammer face has a hollow in it, any particular reason for this? One was fullered in, didn't see if this one was or not. Maybe something like the start of a cold shunt and ground out? But if that's the case, then why fuller one in?
Great advice as always
Hey Dan. I'm curious about using Forklift tines for making hammers. Are they suitable for making struck tools? Like hammer eye punches, flatters, chisels, swages etc. What if I made a hammer from forklift tine and used it to repeatedly strike a hammer eye punch also made of tine? If it's a work hardening steel as you say, what do you think the chances of it hardening enough to splinter on impact at some point in it's life and causing injury? I'm hoping it's unlikely, as a forklift tine or two is a fair chunk of material for tooling if I get my hands on one! :)
Also. What about for use as an avil? Considering layering and welding to build something. Similar to what this guy is doing, but I think I'll go about it slightly differently (mainly, I would think about keeping the layers horizontal rather than vertical, and most likely 100% tine, no mild) --> ruclips.net/video/fcE7kDpmzYM/видео.html
Hey Dan another great video again mate. I'm a beginner smith so always looking for CHEAP steel to learn with. I have got and can get heaps of VERY CHEAP railway track. What type of steel is it and given its large thickness is it suitable for making hammers with? If not what is it useful for mate.
Cheers Andy
From
FORGE WRIGHT
Thanks so much for this, especially as a Brit. The en numbers really helps as it's always aisi numbers on RUclips and they don't always equate.
I think I can get hold of en24 and en8 what sort of tools are a good choice in en8?
Thanks again!
jetblackstar EN8 is pretty poo mate EN9 is OK and as low as I would go on the EN range. try get a 19c or 19t and the same in 24. if you can.
Whats the purpose of the recess in one face of (I think) Peter's hammer?
Phil Menzies it's not finished. face needs grinding.
Ok thanks. Had me puzzled. Great hammers by the way, and glad you've still got all your fingers too ;)
Nice video's I Subscribed
You nearly made eating butties a lot trickier for yourself then bloke :) Fair play on showing it though, and explaining why it was wrong. Ready made guillotine if a handle breaks. Moo would have thrown something heavy at me and called me a wombat. Good info on the magic metals.
I've got over a quarter of a tonne of EN36 I got for scrap prices from a retiring die/tool maker years ago. Hot rolled square bar in various dimensions from about 6 foot of 5 inch square down to two inch bars a foot or more long. Some is going to be used for the power hammer build, but happy to let you have some when you're down this way if you can find a use.
What about 1018?
I really want a source of H13😉
Love your channel !😊 Hammers look awesome ! Love the 👀on your power hammer ! 👍😊 . Comment comes from the state of Maine USA . ☺
WOOHOO!!😁😁😁😁
I am sorry if I missed the mention of it, but is there a scrap source for H13 steel? I am curious about the main rod, inside of a hydrolic cylinder. I am sure they have a very high chrome content at least. Thank you for any information!
drason69 most hydraulic rams have a hard chrome finish. The contain very little chrome. I would say try stainless steel but due to the lack of iron and carbon stainless is quite soft compared to H13. I don't know a reliable way to get scrape H13. Sorry dude.
Wanna sell me some H13 please Dan?😃
Gary Birtwistle send me an email dude and we can have a chat!! Industrialartstudios@gmail.com
Will do dan been looking for a way to msg you.
Thanks
I lost 3 finger tips , it is the worst.