Why Blackmagic Ditching L Mount
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- This is based on the facts revealed on latest releases.
#blackmagicfullframe #pyxis #lmount
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CINENIMUS.COM
I’m still using EF mount because it’s most stable, and affordable. I switch PL and EF on URSA. I have never bought a single micro four thirds lens because I wanted my lenses to last past my camera body
Same brother 🫶
I did buy an MFT body and a lens for it. The lens is gonna stay with the body after the death of either. Gonna give them a viking burial at the local pond.
But seriously a $300 lens on a $1000 body... I am not that concerned. I do get the point for 1000$+ lenses. But wouldn't buy MFT for anything that requires a lens in that price range.
I can't see where the evidence is that BM are ditching the L-Mount when they just released a camera with that mount on it and to say l-mount lenses are more expensive than E-mount based on the price of used lenses is absolute rubbish. Sigma make E and L and they are pretty much identical in price. This just seems like clickbate.
Click-bait nonsense. Unsubscribed.
Bye bye 🤡
I had the same question, both the full frames are L mount and recent. I'm pretty sure the next pyxis would be L mount as well.
why are you publishing non-sense?!there is absolutly no evidence for your statement.
I agree - I've seen no evidence to support this claim of "ditching L-mount" based on any facts. He states this as if it's obvious and everyone knows what "facts" he is talking about, but doesn't clarify and again I have not personally seen any indication of this. Yes, I agree E-mount is ubiquitous and there are a lot of 3rd party lens options now. But what would Blackmagic switch to instead? The somewhat limited RF mount, which only recently stopped shutting down any 3rd party lenses? Sony is probably not going to license another camera brand their E-mount. Nikon Z-mount is still relatively new, fairly small in terms of lens selection, and even shorter flange distance than E-mount. Back to a chunky, limited Canon EF mount as the only option?
And if you'd rather have a full frame, Blackmagic camera in EF-mount, with built-in NDs, more slow-motion options, and you'd pay extra money for it, you could certainly get the Ursa Cine. Or even pick up a used Ursa Mini Pro 4.6K G2 for only a little more than the PYXIS if you don't need full frame or 6K. Mainly I just don't get the assertion that "Blackmagic is clearly ditching L-mount and everyone hates it."
This whining has no sense. Black Magic had two options: create their own mount, or use L-mount, because other brands can join. There is no not-Sony e-mount camera, so I don't know why you complain. This was never an option. Now you can use EF-lenses with adapter, od L-mount natively. BM won't ditch, because they had no other options. PL-mount or EF-mount Pyxis does not mean anything.
I think you did not watch the video try watching half the speed
Co kurwa!
lol what a terrible take… the whole video.
Watch it again
@@CINENIMUS I don’t need to watch it again. I pretty much disagree with all of your points; except that Sony has a lot of lenses. We can agree on that.
But what are the options? Stay with EF forever? There are many used lenses available for EF, but almost no one makes new anymore
I doubt they will ditch l-mount all together ... but they will produce a version of this lower tier cameras with l-mount too. There are plenty of cheap anamorphic with l-mount, so there are tons of potential BMD customers ...
Thats literally the only reason to have the L mount - anamorphic lenses (UNLESS someone catches on and starts making EF anamorphic lenses then game over)
@@CINENIMUS Unfortunatelly mirrorless anamorphics are much easier and cheaper to make ... my bmpcc 6k waits for some cheap anamoprhs and still only Laowa Nanomorphs are available for crazy price :(.
What you're saying isn't true. EF mount was only used properly by Canon, Red and Blackmagic did not have full featured EF mounts and compatibility with EF lenses on those was way worse and lot of EF lenses didn't work on Red at all, trust me I owned one. EF mount was popular because Canon popularized DSLR video so they had a lead. Sony popularized mirrorless cameras so in that they had the lead. The only reason those two mounts have dominated is because of being early to their respective markets, not because they are standards only their host companies officially make cameras and lenses that can do all of the features. Sigma lenses cannot do breathing compensation for example and third party cameras could barely use Canon's autofocus and had no access to lens corrections. So literally anyone with a good enough platform can take the market people will switch if the cameras are good enough.
Try watching half speed?
The two hottest mounts in the future will be the L-mount and the new ARRI LPL mount. No, Blackmagic is not ditching the L-mount. It's the PL mount that everyone will be ditching in the future to replace with LPL. The preorders for the Pyxis EF mount version are very low. EF lenses are for photographers.
friend of mine is one of the retailers in UK - most preorders are EF.
L-mount seems to be closed mount if you are not part of the "alliance alliance alliance".... lately Laowa released their nice 10mm F2.8 it's AF in e-mount ... manual in l-mount :o
OMG loool you are probably one of very few who gets that reference 👌🥹 alliance alliance alliance 👻
@@CINENIMUS Tons of folks get it ... Jared got 1.5M subs :D
I'm a Lumix user, and I'm a former Sony user, I think the lens prices are the same.
There are many L-mount lenses on the market, although not as many as Sony, but I think there are all the options.
Yeah the used market L mount almost non existent hence the higher price
I find the "l mount's flange distance is a problem" argument a bit odd.
Nikon z 16
Sony e 18mm
Mft 19.25
L 20
Rf 20
Is this really suppose to make a difference?
Some people say oh, L mounts flange is too short it cant fit nds... Look at sony or rf.
Rf mount literally wiggles on the komodo. That is a problem
Yeah its a problem if you dont want to buy a bunch of lenses for multiple mounts
So you're saying don't buy L mount quality lenses but instead go to E mount where you can buy cheap lenses from your local Target store.... Thanks, I needed a good laugh.
Watch it again but half the speed
Yep this guy doesn’t accept criticism on his videos that he does with things he takes from his head. Argue with everyone in comment section trying to prove he is right. The camera he chooses is the best, the lenses he uses to make none sense test is the best, balckmagic will do what he says in his videos, the mount he chooses is the best, he knows people are choosing EF on Pyxis over L.
L-mount doesn't preclude ND's. As you said, E-mount is 2mm shorter than L, and yet has had options with internal ND for like... a decade? The Burano now even has IBIS as well.
So it's entirely possible. Panasonic wouldn't have filed for a patent on a swing-in internal ND if it wasn't. And once that is available, in the S1Hii, or an EVAii, or whatever it ends up coming in first, you're no longer choosing between ND and a short mount enabling modern lens formulas. Just like with the Sonys.
E-mount's advantages are from inertia and time in market, not any design difference, where E-mount is actually limited in its IBIS implementation due to its small diameter, because it was originally designed for APS-C sensors, not full-frame.
👍
Blackmagic said it’s possible they just choose not to. Why? Because they aim this camera for people who wants rig it up.
@ Exactly, and think about the market segment they dominate - Blackmagic has cornered the market for getting great image quality and (some, not all) professional features in a no-frills package for as cheap as possible with the Pocket line and its successors. You can't get a Sony camera with E-NDs for under $6000 to start with - it's not like they have E-NDs on the FX3 or anything similar, and the FX3 is still a more expensive camera than any Blackmagic body other than the Ursas.
that cine 12k camera does not physically allow mirrorless mount, you can see there are only PL EF etc, so that is not a valid point IMO
You should watch the video again
They won't ditch L mount. You're confused.
You jot watched the video did you?
@@CINENIMUS Yes, in its entirety... I didn't just read the title. I still think you're wrong because L mount wasn't the problem with the Blackmagic cameras- it was their design and processing. Or maybe Blackmagic isn't smart enough to do the same as Panasonic, Leica, and Sigma? I doubt it. They probably rushed the design, that's all. Version 2 will be better. I know you want an old, ditched mount like Ef to come back, but it won't. E mount is an option, but it has many flaws and it doesn't offer the same features that Panasonic on L mount. Finally, if you're really concerned about dust, e-mount is the LAST one you should get into. They are so bad with dust management.
I just ordered the 6k FF because of the 40% off sale, but I have no L lenses. Can you recommend a good EF adapter for the 6K FF that supports aperture and focus? I have a ton of EF lenses and I often need to trigger focus on myself using Bluetooth+ rather than manual focus.
Mc 21 is the best
@@CINENIMUS Thanks... As you predicted in the video, I've had trouble finding adapters in-stock on all the trusted US based sellers, especially after the big sale. The Amazon reviews of the MC 21 are horrible on some sellers, mixed on others, so I just held off. To hold me over, I ordered a K&F manual for my manual glass that I control with a Nano II.
Sigma glass for L is the same price for the same lens offered in Sony E. Leica glass is obviously more but I don’t know where you’re getting this 20-40% markup for sigma and Panasonic lenses.
Go and check eBay actual sold listings
@@CINENIMUS Just bought 35/1.2 used even cheaper than E-mount. New lenses cost the same too.
@@CINENIMUS why would I go to eBay to check how much something costs? Go to the source either the manufacturer or the supplier.
@BrandonTalbot do it
@@CINENIMUS there’s zero need that’s what I’m telling you.
@CINENIMUS You should make a video on how NOT to get likes and subscribers. This is utter nonsense unless you secretly work for Blackmagic. Smh
What?
I see a BM Pyxis with L-mount... on the BM website... interesting!
what else do you see?
You keep telling everyone they need to watch the whole video.....but it's so long & boring. Moving on....
watch it again
I disagree completely.
EF-mount is dead. You can continue to use existing stuff but the number of new lenses and cameras is going down.
E-mount isn't open for camera manufacturers. Of course Blackmagic would like to use it but it doesn't seems to be possible right now.
Basically the mounts that can be used are PL, EF and the l-mount is the only modern mirrorless mount available for camera manufacturers. It is possible to adapt PL and EF so it's perfect for third party camera manufacturers in the near future unless Sony, Canon or Nikon allow to use the new mounts in third party cameras.
Since a lot of the lens manufacturers are developing new lenses for the mirrorless mounts, they often don't have the room to make an EF-version.
Then why BM re-introduced it? And why all the cinema camera offer it?
Naw.. they just got with L mount on the BMCC and carried it over to The Pixis. And you made a mistake when L mount was first released.. it wasnt with the BMCC. L mount came into existance with full frame line up S1 - s1r - S1H.. so far it is Red Komodo and Black magic and Panasonic using L Mount.
Nah watch it again you missed some facts
They are not ditching L mount. What are you talking about?
You don’t understand why pyxis has monitor on side?
Thats the camera for actual productions, not for youtubers and moms cinematographers.
Another clickbait without any solid info
Why do you say that? Did you try the camera yet?
@@CINENIMUS yes i did
BM doesn’t move into a mount to test the waters. They stick with their decisions. So for those who want a mirrorless-depth flange and the adaptability of lenses with drop in filters, there you have it. L-mount will get the job done and because of the alliance, BM has a say over future development of the mount. Otherwise you’re at the mercy of first-party makers who can add features and rework firmware without warning. In that way L-mount was the only available choice. As for the Pyxis, they decided to not make the mounts user swappable and for those invested in PL or EF glass, we’re happy to ditch the adapters and have more stability for larger lenses. Whatever floats your boat, and regardless the L-mount is here to stay in the mix of BM designs. As for the Pyxis side screen, I have no idea what people are moaning about. All of my cine cameras are built for side operation. This is no different. AND it’s important not to miss how the front USB-C port will change the camera monitoring situation going forward. You have a two way port with power and data. Pretty soon there will be dozens of low cost camera monitors designed to run off the port-no extra batteries required. And at some stage BM and others will come out with USB-C monitors with additional control buttons for BMOS. Then finally people will understand why there’s a side screen. If you haven’t looked at USB-C laptop companion monitors on Amazon lately, then maybe you don’t understand what I’m talking about. But these days you can buy a 16” HD monitor for less than $100.00 which could run off the Pyxis port. They aren’t currently designed for filming environments or rigging, but soon enough we will have sizes and housings better suited to camera work.
sorry tldr
Does Blackmagic know this? This video is an opinion piece not a verifiable fact.
Blackmagic is gonna sell what ever lens mount they think will make them a great ROI. With the way the pyxis is made it seems like all 3 models share 95+ percent of the same parts the only major difference is the mount, which judging on how much the mount for the cine cost I doubt it cost blackmagic much to make 3 different mounts.
INHO EF isn't exciting anymore. The ef mount is not getting any new lenses, the last major canon release was 2018 with 4 lenses. The newest sigma EF press release I found was 2019. Cooke and Zeiss both releasing L and FE mini cine primes. There will come a point where new lenses will be too useful to indie film makers to not want to switch to a mirrorless mount.
in terms of mirrorless lens mounts their aren't that many ways to go, I'm sure the everyone would love an e mount camera but sony doesn't allow that, as seen with them telling freefly to stop building the ember with the e mount.
If I had to guess why the why the new 12k cine doesn't have a L mount is the body is not conducive to having one and they mostly like thought the market would be using higher end PL or LPL lenses.
Watch it again at half speed you will get it eventually.
It was not really a troll move, To have a fixed monitor on the side . IT was a move to push the black magic assists monitors, that's why they also reduce the price of the assist.
I seen so many videos with the 6K full frame's with an external monitor on top the same size as the built-in ones.
people just like to make their cameras look substantial somehow, a waste of money, in my opinion.
If they had put a swivel hinge for the monitor, People could have used the camera as is, With no additional cost.
haha yeah I forgot a typical blackmagic user would feel very insecure about their skills hence the need to "overcompensate"
I never got the appeal of the flip-out camcorder style of monitor. maybe it's because I'm only on sticks 10% of the shoot day. I prefer to have my monitor on an arm so I can put it exactly where I need it at any given time. I know that's unique to me but for this reason, I don't mind the fixed screen on the side of the Pyxis. anyway, I pre-ordered one mostly because I miss BRAW.
Operating system on BM cameras are designed for touch. BM used the cheapest screen only for operating camera menu. Similar story with red komodo. I don’t think they’ve putted a color calibrated 1000 nits screen on the side. Users are buying just a brain with touch interface. It’s up to them to choose if they wanted use a 5” or 7” inch external screen or maybe an EVF.
A swivel makes it Ursa Mini. I mean, what is so hard to understand? If they put the swivel monitor on a $3K, why would anyone ever buy Ursa mini again? Think people. Common sense. Smdh. It's always the RUclips guys and non move making people complaining about things they don't know.
@@guguemichaels a 3 dollar swivel hinge is not going to make a 6k camera into a 12k camera...
I hope you're right about a "Pyxis Pro" with NDs. Given that they were able to fit internal NDs in the Pocket 6k Pro, there's really no excuse to not put them in the Pyxis. I think I'm gonna stick with my Sony F55 and 'wait and see' with the Pyxis.
100%
Just to clarify, that was an exclusively EF-mount camera with a huge flange. They've been on the record saying they'd love to put in ND's but the L-mount's flange requires a lot of engineering to make that work, something that has very little to do with the size of the camera body and more to do with the mount itself. The pocket used 2 entire glass ND elements over a clear glass element in the flange that rolled in and out of the flange as needed. The Pocket 6K Pro had a very simple mechanical solution in comparison. That same solution would not work in the L-mount at all.
I get what you're saying if you're talking about an EF-version that wasn't a simple screw on "port" of the L version, but the L-mount model (which seems to be the most flush and native design) would require figuring out a way around a lot of patents and engineering problems.
On that note, I'm glad they're moving away from EF even though I only own EF lenses. I don't really understand this video's premise that it locks you into a system because more than anything, EF does that. Literally cannot adapt anything widely available except for PL, M-42, and K-mount...all generally large and heavy lenses with no modern comforts.
Also, there aren't any non-sony cameras with the E-mount which seemed to be your proposed solution. I don't know the policy, but there's a difference between making a lens for E-mount and making an E-mount camera, and the evidence seems to point to the idea that E-mount is exclusively a Sony property or demands a hefty cost that no one has been willing to pay. Blackmagic is not that candidate given their price point. The L-mount was developed with multiple manufacturers in mind. It's the whole point of their existence and it makes logical sense. I understand being cynical when features aren't what you want them to be, but let's be sensible...the L-mount isn't a get rich quick scheme.
@@jaythefourth Excellent points here. Personally, I'm a PL mount sort of person... PL lenses just make more sense for cinema, and there are a ton of affordable options now. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there wouldn't be a flange issue with putting NDs on a PL mount right? Perhaps they should have saved internal NDs and the PL mount for a future "Pyxis Pro".
I think it make sense even BM and Panasonic made a deal to share L mount and Braw. But if the new S1Hii got internal ND or/and internal Raw, it would absolutely destroy BM pocket line or pyxis even any sony. Or imagine a new Canon c90 with FF open gate sensor. Don't forget next Nikon cam with RED raw. These hybrid cameras would replace any low end cinema cameras.
They kinda already doing it hence the RED struggle to stay competitive and Nikon’s subsequent acquisition
I don't get what's the problem. L-mount has affordable sigma lenses and high quality Panasonic / Leica as an option. There is a ton of good lenses to choose from. Also, there are a lot of cheap cine lenses like Irix, Blazar, Nisi, Meike. As you said you can adopt EF lenses and PL lenses. It looks like the perfect mount and I will go Pyxis L-mount option.
I dont think you watched the video in its entirety
@@CINENIMUS I did. EF is worst mount in every way. Pyxis has locking ef mount mainly for heavy cine lenses. L-mount version is for lightweight photographic lenses and for adapting vintage lenses. PL mount is for people who wants to use it as a b cam for 12k.
But what should I choose from Blackmagic at this time? Maybe they will release a pro body of the Pyxis of a pocket... we will see. And yes, I think people that shoot alone or have a very small crew are using Blackmagic cameras. I am also one of those :)) I like the look, I like the color science, I like the menu and how it all works in Resolve and so on. But here are a lot of things that could be better and unfortunately they don't have ONE camera that does all. I am talking build in NDs, and full frame and a articulated monitor etc... I would go for the Pyxis, but if you are not filming in 6K, you want 4K it is cropped in!!!!! WHY???? And there is no proRes... I mean.. really?? I don't want to shoot in RAW and 6k all the time for all the projects I am doing, just to use the full sensor. Things like this really bug me.
Yeah same thats why I made a video but reality is pyxis is identical image to FF pocket so unless you wanna pay extra for the monitor - FF pocket is a better choice
@@CINENIMUS T was thinking the same thing... Less money and still has more stuff, haha! Thanks for the reply, appreciate it!
Why would they make more money offering differently mounted cameras? Doesn't make sense to me. I think it is very fair offering the possibility to use your old lens ecosystem without adapter. The only reason I see why they would reconsider to revert the L mount is because of the flansch distance not allowing internal NDs. There are a lot of really affordable, good and even outstanding L mount lenses. Would be a little cooler to open up the discussion instead of just telling your opinion, why not inviting some other DOPs or camera operators or even directly talk to Blackmagic? Would make a nicer and more diverse :)
If you dont get it my friend then buy it and but another again and again and again. I will invite DOP’s when I start using Alexas
@@CINENIMUS OK 😅
because it will introduce Nikon mount
who Blackmagic? doubt that
@@CINENIMUS Sorry my bad - was thinking about RED
Excellent thoughts but i think you are giving bm too much credit. I think they are just throwing things at the wall re mounts and see what sticks. That depends on time scale and take up. Think RF. Are canon really committed to it? Sure for photography mainly but what about everyone else. Sigma now do RF. Canon must now see how Sigma had made e mount more affordable and accessible. other major user of RF?? Red? Not any more with Nikon in play. So what is left? Logical to all adopt e mount in the same way that everyone uses sony sensors but that might be handing too much to Sony and something canon will never do. Either way despite the logic brand loyalty and proprietary ip is likely to dictate brand strategy for a while regarding mounts as i honestly think that most brands just dont know what they are doing. Universal locking mounts like pl with universal meta data transfer are the way forward. As lidar becomes established then specific auto focus technologies wont be so important. Meanwhile bm are simply not camera designers and the pyxis and new ursa and their confusion illustrates it for those who didn’t already know it. Thx for the thoughts
Yeah I think you are right about blackmagic experimenting that said look at their flagship lineup - thats indicative of something no?
@@CINENIMUS true there is no l mount option in the interchangeable mount but i think that is just a reflection of how confused and inept their camera designers are that the mount and sensor block are built around large format lenses in Pl Lpl and EF options and significantly the Hasselblad v mount. This seems a nod to the monster 17k large format ursa in mind and centre sharpness for large format lenses in full frame.
After watching the entire video my conclusion is as I thought before watching it - THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF BM DITCHING L MOUNT😂
If you blind maybe
@@CINENIMUS Would you care to elaborate exactly where you got this information? I tried and wasn’t able to understand your point…
Hi, you can adapt EF,PL mount to L mount...so IMHO maybe it is the other way around...
Looks like you didnt watch the whole video. BM is clearly ditching it for the reasons I mentioned.
The only problem imo is they can’t put NDs in L mount so yes the next camera i think will be with NDs and interchangeable mount EF and PL like the ursa mini pro
I got a Lumix S5 and really like the L mount in bm cameras. But I dont need more that the Two already exist😅
@@TarekSaneh You have some Panasonic blue Print in Internet...with L mount and internal NDs...because Blackmagic was late in the L mount alliance they need probably to wait...first will come out a S2H or S1Hii or maybe a BSH2 from pana with internal ND IMHO late 2024. And in late 2025 BM can put out a box L mount caméra with internal ND better screen etc...Just Spekulation no internal Info...for me the sensor and readout speed IS a problem with FF pana or BM 6K sensor. The URSA 12K ciné FF got another sensor Type so IT schould not be a problem...still think they will stay with L mount...EF IS dying ,PL can be adapting to any mount...E mount is Sony business,Z mount.Nikon RED,so no chance, RF you can forget they just Open IT for S35 sigma tamron lenses...L mount was Not a choice but the only choice they could make...
You put too much "brain"!!! I found it useful for me, who only use manual lenses, to have simple fittings for all attachments..... think too much!!! Better not to have N.D. filters in front of the sensor....
That still makes no sense
I dont like L mount. id rather go for PL , currently im an ef mount user for bm. all my bms are emount. only the pocket is an M43 but i have adapter to ef
Hai messo troppo "cervello"!!! Ho trovato utile per me, che uso solo obiettivi manuali, avere raccordi semplici per tutti gli attacchi.....pensate troppo!!!
english dude? its 2024 hello
Blackmagic is ditching the L mount??? I haven't ever seen a clue of it. I would say the claim is kinda delusional.
Have you watched the video?