Surface Noise. How Vinyl Speaks to Our Desire for Authenticity
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- John Peel’s famous surface noise quote is held up as capturing perfectly the sentiment behind vinyl’s unlikely revival in the digital age. Digital music production and playback has allowed us to clean up the noise of analog tape and production techniques. But if perfection is what we’ve been striving for, why is a format with inherent surface noise selling at a 30-year high?
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My favourite analogy for this very old discussion is: "CDs are like paintings on glass. Vinyl is like paintings on canvas".
That's a great analogy. I may have to steel it! - thanks for joining the conversation. Happy spinning
In 1990 I sold off my vinyl records and went wholeheartedly into CDs, mostly to escape surface noise. Now that I'm back into vinyl, I love the surface sound, and recognize the authenticity as something lost in the "canned" digital formats. I recently found a nice 1972 copy of the Kinks "Arthur", nearly identical to the copy I originally bought in 1972, and hadn't heard in 30 years. I've played the CD since the 90's, but the second I put on the vinyl, the sound I grew up with suddenly jumped out of the speakers. When I turned it over, midway through "Shangri-La", I burst into tears. THAT's how it's supposed to sound!
Great to hear! Recapturing the magic :)
You’re absolutely right. While digital is absolutely perfect, it’s sterile. A musical performance should be full of life’s subtleties.
Thanks for joining the discussion. Well, I think so, it adds something for me at least and I think many increasingly feel the same. Happy spinning and thanks for watching :)
I like warmth, grit, soul, feeling, authenticity like the next guy. But I prefer those things to come from the original recording, not so much from the playback equipment.
I love the authenticatie of een analoge vinyl lp... I makes the music more alive...
i love this topic. very well said Marc. I do think there's a time and place for all kinds of sound. digital streaming to me for example is only worth it for the convenience when I'm not at home or if I'm walking around with headphones but I don't even care that much about the quality in that case. at home I love both CDs and Vinyl sounds but mostly Vinyl and I really don't mind a bit of the noise. I do think it's inherently part of the media and gives it life and uniqueness. CDs sound more "perfect" but it's just not the same. just depends.
Thanks for joining the discussion. Agreed 💯. Streaming for on the move, vinyl mostly at home. Some CD - happy listening 🎶🎧
I have no idea what you are talking about... I lived my first 20 years of listening life wanting to 'get rid of' surface noise! Music lovers of a certain age couldn't wait for digital to eliminate noise, surface noise on vinyl and white noise on tape (Dolby anyone?). The advent of digital was what we were waiting for, and when it came it was wholly welcomed. Unfortunately, some of the really early CDs were not mastered well or didn't use the best sources, however, I cannot tell you the joy of listening to a digital version of Michael Jackson's Off the Wall album when I first came across it (digital version) in the mid 80's. Surface noise can be reduced but not eliminated on vinyl, even the best pressings and most well-cleaned discs will have it.
Digital is my go-to, for so many reasons, but that said there are a few areas that vinyl does excel in. 1) the whole package, there is nothing like a well put together vinyl album package (including label); artwork, lyrics, liner notes, extras, it's the cat's meow. 2) Point of Focus, you don't just put it on in the background, you make a point of 'listening'. 3) the artists make a bit more money from people buying their work. 4) Collectability, I still love my beat up version of the Velvet Underground & Nico with peel off Warhol Banana, it's hanging on the wall in my listening room. Other than that, I will side with digital 100%.
Yeah... romanticizing the "wonders" of vinyl its ridiculous enough without embracing surface noise as a "good thing". Next up: how wow and flutter, rumble, and static brings out the "best" in music reproduction.😂
So I imagine that my five Victrolas and a 1906 Edison cylinder player are no threat to you! 🙂
@@toonman361 would not know where to even start finding anything to play on them lol.
Hey I’ve got an old JVC LA21 that I just put a new cart and stylus on, and 300-400 lp’s that I still play and buy more vinyl all the time. For the reasons stated above, I still like, play and buy vinyl, but the high percentage of my listening is digital. And for sound quality I prefer digital. There are a few select disc that I think sound better analog vinyl but it’s the vast exception. The aforementioned Velvet’s album basically is enhanced by imperfect reproduction, or Satanic’s Majesty Request. Digital is still better, especially on the new stuff, and basically anything created in a digital environment… and for ease of access and listening, it’s my preference.
Another note: When people ask me why I love vinyl records (and don’t get me wrong, I also love cassettes, reel to reel, DAT, CDs and streaming), I do the following:
I turn off the amp, tell the person to “listen closely” and then say, “that’s why!”
We forget or were unaware of all the effort spent trying to eliminate LP noise: Quiex vinyl, CX and dBx processing, laser phonographs and of course Mobile Fidelity versions. I'm sure there are people who experience nostalgia from old, yellowed photos, a 12-year-old Ford that rattles a bit and a door that refuses to latch on the 1st try. I prefer family pictures looking like the day they were printed, a well tuned car, and getting in and out of the house with a minimum of fuss. Noisy grooves, wow from off-center discs, and distortion from a song with the misfortune of being at the end of side one push me further from the music itself.
When records and cassettes were all one had, tape hiss and surface noise was a given. And most people could not afford the higher end system required for ultimate play back. Cheap and cheerful was where it was at for most. The dawn of the cd was a revelation. Not without its teething problems, but still, I never looked back. Yes, the packaging was better on an album but soundwise I was in heaven.
I've still got all my old vinyl from the '70s and '80s but I rarely play them. Pops and clicks always annoyed me.
I realized that "perfection is overrated" some years ago when it simply became too easy to achieve a steadfast goal. I am talking primarily about photography. In an age of perfect clarity and reproduction as a facsimile, the copy seems superfluous. Why copy what is already there, sound or picture? Besides, at 63, my sight and hearing is not perfect so achieving it is mechanical, not natural. I teach photography and point my students in the direction of obtaining an idea rather than perfection. Liked your comments.
Thanks for joining the discussion. I like the photography analogy; capturing an atmosphere rather than absolute accuracy - arguably the true art of photography :)
Same with recording music; capture a moment and a feeling, if that includes some imperfections, so be it. The Neil Young school of record making. Happy listening
I think our brain is doing more work listening to analogue sound recordings. They tap into our ability to extract important information from complex environments in order to survive in the wild. It might be more mentally stimulating.
More mentally stimulating. Interesting concept! :)
@@soundmatters by which I mean there's not just the recording there's noise, distortions, pitch variations, phase variations, compression, hiss, and somewhere in all of that is the recording. our brains are working hard to isolate it from the artefacts and to fill in missing information from memory. it's all noise until our brains decode it. Digital has fewer artefacts in the way and the brain is doing less work. I think we are more engaged on a more primal level.
I think we are starting with a fallacious statement. Speaking for myself, I realize, I don't "embrace surface noise." If the music is good enough I will tolerate it. But the fact is most of my records exhibit very little surface noise. A well manufactured and cared for record on a properly setup turntable will be virtually silent. E.g., I can hear tape hiss on some records.
It kinda kills me when I hear about surface noise. Some people act like it's on ALL LPS 😮😮😮. I PERSONALLY HAVE SOME VINYL THAT HAS ZERO SURFACE NOISE THAT RENDERS MY ENJOYMENT UNENJOYABLE. Some used albums do have surface noise 😢
Good video. Once the music starts, I cannot hear the vinyl surface noise if is is low. Under the quieter passages, then the surface noise is there if you pay attention and the volume is high. I can tolerate it if I concentrate on the music and not the noise as long as the noise is low and not overpowering the output level of he music. I grew up with vinyl; started in 1976, so there is a coolness about surface noise to me. I have heard in more modern music played via a digital mediums; it was recorded on purpose as such. I find that amusing. Cheers!
Cheers! Yes, it’s fascinating that analog emulsion is used so widely in modern music production. I’ve done it myself. Definitely adds the “clue” and more character 🎶🎧
I don't mind a bit of surface noise , less so on electronic music i.e. JMJ , I loved your analogy with the old and new houses 🙂
Thanks for watching. Glad you liked the analogy. Happy listening
Well said.
Thanks for watching!
It’s an interesting point about surface noise. I can tolerate it in some instances but in others it can drive me mad. The odd pop and click is part of the vinyl experience- within reason but I don’t want to hear a hailstorm in the background lol. That said on some of my older records that I’ve had since I was a teenager, the surface noise has become part of that album. A newer copy or a digital version just wouldn’t be the same for me.
Thanks for joining the discussion Andy. Agree: there is a line to be crossed. Great point on old copies that have your unique markers on them of noise; within reasons this is what makes your copy unique to you. Part of your musical journey. Happy listening
But what about digital recordings on vinyl format and analogue recordings on digital formats?
I'd say there are good and bad versions of both. I love the vinyl format, but there's also a time and a place for other formats depending on what I'm doing or where I am. Happy listing and enjoy the music :)
Both vinyl and hi resolution 192k 24 bit have extremely hi resolution, I think LPs have that "edge" because of its imperfections!😊
Both have their place for sure. I love the vinyl format though :)
Surface noise is just part of analog but I've found Japanese pressingstend to be much more quiet.
Japanese manufacturing consistency no doubt. Thanks for joining the discussion
Embrace the digital no noise compact disc!
It is a funny controversy; we try our best to get rid of record pops and cracks and discuss, debate and even fight over best practices when it comes to equipment choice, maintenance, etc. BUT we explicitly chose the medium that is known for the very imperfections we’re trying to eliminate … we, humans, are indeed a weird bunch.
To add to your point, art is not symmetry and not perfection. Beauty is to be found in the slight imperfections that render something “real”.
This can be found in our own makeup and blood. Evolution is not copy & paste. It is also not complete chaos. It is the slight alterations which are viable but awkward that tickles our interest.
Indeed. I think we like a bit of imperfection, but then again, the line is different for everyone. I've met people who simply can't stand to listen to records as the imperfections drive them mad. I suppose it's a bit like artificial grass vs real grass: some love their gardens/back yards all clean lines, others prefer a more natural feel.
I like your analogies around art and evolution. Happy listening and thanks for joining the conversation.
@@soundmatters Haha … this reminds me of Chewbacca. Someone told me how annoying Chewy’s moans were during the Star Wars movies, especially the first one.
So, of course I re-watched it and now, well, Star Wars is ruined for me. I can’t watch it w/out getting distracted by Chewy’s howls. The groans never bothered me before I intentionally sought them out. Now, that’s all I hear.
A small amount of surface noise is often acceptable to me. A sudden loud pop or click during a quiet passage snaps me right out of the immersion though and ruins it for me. And a badly worn record sounds just…..bad. I have all my favourite albums on both vinyl record and digital. I prefer it that way, over collecting randomly on just one format.
Thanks for joining the discussion. For sure, there is a point where it gets too much. For most people I think that line is crossed at the point you've described in your comment. Happy spinning and enjoy the music. Still love my CD collection too and will never sell it.
I don’t mind a little snap crackle pop here and there and the analog sound but if it sounds like the music is competing with a static tv at the same volume I consider the album trash
Surface noise I can handle. On older records, it's practically unavoidable. On the other hand, records with scratches (ie: repeating ticks that go on and on for several minutes) are a deal breaker. Too distracting, especially in quieter music like classical or acoustic. I'd sooner toss 'em and look for a better copy or avoid them altogether.
Off topic, but...OASIS REUNION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 🤣
Thanks for joining the discussion Paul. Agree with you. Oasis reunion: did you get tickets? We waited for hours only to be disappointed sadly. I've saw them at Wembley in 2000 (not the infamous televised night, the night before when Liam was sober).
@@soundmatters No. ☹ Total nightmare trying to procure tickets. My nephew in the UK was online for five hours and never got through. My only hope is that maybe they'll make it to the States in 2026. Cheers.
Ahh No !!! with rigbt set-up you don't what it there is enough in the room.
But I accept the argument on the basis of Nostalgia as the moments that emerge from out deep consciousnesses.
The Inventor of Stereo would not be a Vinyl lover
Speaking as someone who has hundreds of 78rpm records and expects a certain amount of surface noise when played on era appropriate phonographs, I can share that the noise is not nostalgia but recognizing that was the state of recording at the time. I am okay with standard surface noise because it is authentic. Plus, I don't have to chase the ever elusive noiseless record any longer. And stereo was developed well after vinyl was already established so why wouldn't a lover of stereo also be a vinyl aficionado?
Here is what I found America spent many decades without truly duplicating the original invention because that patent belonged to EMI.
The American implementation was never completely correct, life size full holographic detail.
I reference the 1933 recording of 3 pianos on a stage and each can be identified right down to the direction of the keys playing it still took more than 30 years before America even produced near 1/3 of that ability.
Only a handful of 78s can produce Stereo if you have one congratulations.
Even harder to match the right needle and player etc.....
Noise is part of the deal with live music so the authenticity argument makes sense to me. Vinyl is by far the most enjoyable experience of all the physical media formats but for clarity a good CD wins. Above all though it's a personal call.