How Does Bungie Follow Up The Final Shape? | Destiny 2
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- Опубликовано: 2 май 2024
- Today, we're taking a look at an article from Paul Tassi that goes over an interesting comparison of The Final Shape to The Avengers series. Will the climax of the light and darkness saga lead us to a story fall off in the episodes coming afterwards? We discuss what storylines may be available for Bungie to deliver on following The Final Shape.
#destiny2 #bungie #thefinalshape
Paul Tassi's Article: www.forbes.com/sites/paultass...
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Игры
In D3, the first raid boss I heard will be Datto. There will be 4 encounters. It’s chamber like structures thru a vast land that lead to “The vault”.
It's why he made us delete our Guns
@@jeromysanchez7689 he has them, in the vault, his vault!!!
@@jeromysanchez7689 ❤️
You win by deleting god roll weapons
And after he goes into witness protection...
The nine showing up and eating the witness would be the most wild ending and I want it.
Same
Nah, players need a significant hero moment here. The players need to be the one to end the witness
It really would be another moment where we'd be like, "WAIT! NO! WE GOT PLAYED AGAIN?!"
It would be so unsatisfying but also so awesome.
@@ready1player31 it’s fine, we can eat the witness while the nine watches.
We beat the plague in the traveller and follow the witness into another dimension but it treads into Nine Territory and gets Merked.
Fade to black... ...Final Shape raid is The Nine.
9 encounters.
9 Bosses in 9 different dimensions.
9 Player Raids
Please 🙏
I want a Nine-styled raid.
I always wanted to see the Nine’s interpretation of us guardians as raid bosses with the penultimate boss being an amalgamation of all three guardians together to fuse a “perfect” image.
Would be pretty dope.
There's actually a lot they could do. There's tons of stuff in the lore that they can expand on like taking back the cabal's home world or stuff with the nine. They can always introduce new species as well.
Thought the hive destroyed torabatl
@@MrAlaverge1 I think it was just the surface? I unno
Besides that bungie already said we're not leaving our solar system so there's still stuff to do
But what I hope is they wrap up some old loose ends with the three episodes and then bring in a potential new threat
That, and tbh destiny players like shooting things. Story comes second.
Bungie tried that “make a decision” quest before. The only thing that changed was what the Drifter called my character.
That was more of a test run than anything tbh, I think they absolutely could do it in a much bigger scale that actually matters.
Haha what a college try
@@jaredcollins2049not a very good test
They also said about wanting to make account wide progress more of a thing for both power levels and story progress, which if the latter comes true would mean it's an account wide choice
I wonder how they will be able to keep the Dread around, lore-wise, when the Witness is gone. I hope they’re not just for the Final Shape
Just like the Taken are still around. Oryx is dead but the taken are more or less autonomous now. They might have help from Xivu. I think the dread will stick around in some way. I could see the Vex playing their hand in the dread some way.
There will always be a bigger one
I really hope they do what they did in d1 with strikes after the taken king came out. Add the dread to some of them. Or they could even go crazy and add them to root of nightmares, I always felt like the cabal being there was pretty lame
The problem with the Dread that makes you tell they are obviously shoehorned in as a way to save face just before destiny dies completely is that they don’t have any narrative history, and won’t. They are very obviously all transformed versions of either clones of the Witness’s previous Disciples or species we have already seen. They are even explained to not really have any proper autonomy and be completely under the Witness’s control. I take that is them never having any autonomy and I don’t think they ever will. If we defeat the Witness completely then the dread are gone. They’ll drop like that one scene from the first avengers when the Chitari ships got nuked and all the soldiers just fell to the ground. And even if they did come back, what would their narrative be? To fulfill the Witness’s Final Shape without it? Or discover that they have autonomy now and how “life is so crazy and amazing when you’re free”? We’ve seen that already so who cares!?
My hopeful prediction is that we defeat the witness and it splits into the species it consisted of, and we get the enemy type that was shown in that 5-panel species preview back from 2014, specifically the yellow panel.
The problem with this phase of the mcu has been the quality..look at how excited people are about deadpool/wolverine...we just want quality movies...X-Men 97 is getting mad hype right now! Give us quality content
Indeed. People wanted quality, but Disney wanted quantity.
Also before Endgame, going to a couple big movies with friends a few times a year was a good time out and easy to justify.
With most of the MCU content being dull D+ shows MCU content stopped feeling like an event but just frustrating 6 week slogs that were pretty much entirely separate shows with no connection.
I'm not exactly gonna invite friends over to binge She Hulk or Moon Knight compared to say going out to see No Way Home. You have to dedicate more time now, but with less reward for actually staying up to date since they have no real connection.
The big problem pre vs post Endgame is interconnectivity. The beginnings of the MCU gave each main hero a stand alone movie introduction and then every other movie had subtle hints and cross overs that you knew was building to an Avengers team up, it was a question of how and why. Then each phase was again slowly building to a big Avengers but this time more cross over and interconnectivity. Since Thanos its just been random shows/movies about random characters, building to nothing. There is no sense of oh yeah these are our new Avengers. If the next MCU movie was Avengers 5 and came out next year, who would even be on the team?
@@Mashangi this is also a problem. As good as season 1 of loki was. I haven't had a desire to watch season 2...
Loki was the best thing they made since Endgame
In the final shape collectors edition there’s a bit of lore that states basically that one of the precursors (witness race before the civilisation merged) left their system before the merge happened, meaning there’s a possibility they’re still out there somewhere. It’d be really cool to meet whoever that is and to see what the witness’s race was like
My money's on Osiris. Don't really have anything to back up that claim except that he likes to cover his face the same way the Precursors do in Ahsa's story. Or....
The Guardian. 🤯
@@mikethehunter5212 that would be an insane plot twist
My head cannon is that the precursor who fled ended up merging with The Traveler and his friend ended up becoming the more dominant consciousness in The Witness. The reason for this is the Precursors refer to the traveler as the Gardener but the witness referred to it as old friend in much the same way the precursor referred to his pen pal before they split.
I'm going to safely assume that Episodes are goin to be like the expansions Bungie released when Activision owned then, similar to the size of warmind/CoO
We can already tell by what content we’ll be getting in them that they’ll definitely be bigger than seasons at the least so maybe.
they said in the vidoc that episodes will be on the scale of shadowkeep
This is what I feel too, basically what D1Y1 & D2Y1 were
I feel like seasons are already bigger than that
@@onion7117we NEVER got a new planet or strikes in a season
I don't want another cliffhanger or sequel stinger. I want a fucking ending.
U can have an ending and something setting up for the future
There’s money to be made my friend
@@danranger2821while yes you can, Bungie has NEVER given us a true ending to really anything at all. Even going back to D1 they always leave room open to go back to a story line just in case. I agree with the guy honestly, I want an actual set in stone ending. We can resume a story at the end of the last episode setting up for D3
Same tbh, the ending should be our guardian dying in the final cutscene. Cliffhangers are just too cliche and repetitive in my opinion.
Honestly i want the Gardener and Winnower to be revealed as real characters. Or at least the Gardener and the winnower could be introduced later.
FFXIV ended their story with Endwalker and they're still going strong with Dawntrail coming up. Bungie should probably take a look at them since its more applicable.
ffxiv did a really good segway into Dawntrail, after all the despair and deity conflict, by the end of your journey in endwalker you are just trying to take a break from it all and Dawntrail makes it feel like the next journey will be a breath of fresh air with new lands and wonder almost giving the feeling of a much deserved vacation
Why would Bungie copy a more confusing game then Destiny?
@@lazyvoid7107 I can assure you that XIV's lore is far more clear and concise than destiny's lmao.
@@lazyvoid7107 14 is far cleare than d2. my friend booted up d2 and didnt even know there was pvp. i had to show him how to approach the campaigns
It’s taken me up to this video to realise that Az is literally just Destiny Alex Jones
“Now this here is bio-identical to ether and will cure all your vault stuffing woes!”
@@kmhowells2 "I don't want em putting darkness in my light that turn the frickin ghosts gay!!"
The lore behind the Nine can be seen as the equivalent of the Void Lords of WoW. They create/manipulate life to do their bidding while they basically sit back and watch. This is what is believed to be the origins of the Ahamkara--the Nine possibly creating them. I don't know if there is anything stating that as fact, but the Nine were pissed at Oryx when he took Riven, and they manipulated the Awoken and the Guardians to kill the remaining Ahamkara instead of destroying them personally. I find them to be the most interesting, but I honestly think having beings that powerful existing outside of the perceptive universe in Destiny makes them feel too OP, but at the same time meaningless because they don't really do anything.
The nine didn't create anything as far as I know. Their origins are unknown, I think, but they are sustained by intelligent conscious beings, like humans. For them to live we have to live. They didn't create the ahamkara, they were trying to use the ahamkara to make physical bodies for themselves which is kinda why the ahamkara were wiped out. The shit that the nine were doing freaked guardians out on Venus
2:46 bungie: write that down, write that down!
That was such a clever idea from cross, bungie needs to get him as a lead on story.
A little late to make it so hahahaha
pls no..... we have to lose.
They be like “ERASE EVERYTHING AND USE THIS NOW!”
@@jacobboucher777 we have to lose? Like we all die?
I hope that they make a destiny 3 set far in the future with a new guardian. You’d be able to begin telling a new story that can still tie in old characters. I think what destiny is really missing right now is the part that made the lore so captivating in the first place: mystery. A new story in deep space would bring back a lot of the wonder that has naturally worn off as a result of 10 years of story development.
It would be cool. New guardian, new characters and new galaxy. And then the story of current destiny gets subtly told or we find out the cause of its extinction
Drifter is one of the coolest character in destiny. I would love a seperate destiny prequel that has you playing as drifter beginning with his first resurrection.
I keep thinking that the next step, after Final Shape, is going out into space. To explore the galaxy and leave this solar system. To be the Vanguard of explorers.
Cope
Wasn't that in a leak once
@@lazyvoid7107 I don't know. I can't recall. It would be cool if it was true!
Guardian wars! What bigger enemies than God killers?
Oh, like if the factions came back and we started fighting each other? That would be pretty interesting.
I mean, canonically there's only ONE god killer.
What if day 1 raid is also connected to a community event in Final Shape? Raiders can go and tackle the raid while everyone in the community do public event like activities across all the planets so they can strenghten the raiders or weaken The Withness back in the raid. These can be pretty chill activities like collecting, destroying or even merging light and dark energies, so people can still watch the raid streams and chat about whats going on while playing. Challange can be the amount of activities required. Idk it's probably just copium, but hey they are on a win streak nowadays.
Having a war on two fronts with the hardcore and casuals uniting to push the darkness back...
Someone at Bungie: "Get this man a job!"
@@gramdalfthewhite Ah man i can only wish :D I can see many people who can't do the raid doing this instead and still helping. That would be the real "endgame" moment. And if we still cant finish it on time everyone crumbles to dust and disconnects. "Pardon our Dust" literally
I really want to believe the rumors of D3 are true, I'm not ready to say goodbye. I just feel like they woudlnt make any these changes/updates for it to be over with next DLC.
Sony pretty much bought Bungie entirely because they're impressed with Destiny and want it to continue. No way Bungie abandons this cash cow. Wow and osrs/runescape have proven that people will play games for 2+ decades.
Bungie would be complete idiots to throw away Destiny like they did with Halo.
If D2 continues after TFS/episodes I hope D3 doesn't happen (unless certain stuff carry over). Imo they've been making changes to D2 that seem kinda pointless to make if it was ending after episodes (things like in game lfg is a big thing to implement, but I find it weird to just move on after adding such a thing)
I feel like it will also depend on the success of it's other new games aswell, like marathon
@@beeman4266d3 will be an even bigger cash cow
I hope d3 happens but hear me out. What if they had a plot where we would venture out beyond the solar system in d3, see other planets that have been visited by the traveler or something, and kept d2 going at the same time in the solar system dealing with the vex and whoever else is still a threat. Dunno if they have the manpower to support 2 games like that though, maybe it's a bad idea.
On that Civil War point: Remember back during Season of the Drifter after forsaken, where we had a quest from drifter to choose sides, btw him and the Vanguard? It said it would have huge implications on the future and then absolutely nothing happened with it since.
Also one thing you got to consider is that the reason everyone was not interested after endgame wasn't even just the "burnout", it was the fact that everyone we gave a shEt about ended thwir contracts.
Thank you for including the link to the article!!!
I think, from that lore video, that The Witness is the culmination of the civilization's self sacrifice that encountered the Traveller/The Gardener first. They found the Gardener's anithesis in the Veil, and The Winnower is the entity or method they needed to use the Veil to give meaning to the chaotic light that they weilded. So they brought it to the Gardener, and the Gardener refused to interact with the Veil, the thing that gave the people of Lubrae the power to create the Winnower. The Witness is not the Winnower, it is the weilder of it. The Witness is the people of Lubrae, trying to impose order on and orderless universe. The "Traveller", the "Great Machine" and the "Gardener" are just many race's names for the same entity. Im curious to know if the Traveller was conceived on Lubrae. Or if this was only another species trying to control the Light, and chasing it again. Perhaps there are even more ancient enemies searching for it.
I want Rogue guardians especially since it's in the lore. Imagine in open world space like public events which could get a major update as well, where kinda like division where u could get some exclusive stuff for either what side u choose and u could fight it out for a short time to take other exclusives from other guardians
Morgan freeman as the gardener would be great 😂😂
How about Angelina Jolie?
Your breakdown of Destiny Civil War was how we dealt with the Witch Queen. Ikora and Eris had one way and Zavala and others had another.
Imagine the Traveller and the Veil are two of the Nine. 7 more out there, waiting to be explored in d3
Eat? Why eat? Ha Ha! man I was so traumatized as you were describing them eating him.
Isn't the bit about Vex not having sent their actual fighters something that could just be, like, Calus' opinion, man?
There iiiiiiiis the Europa portal 🤔
What they could do is either have a few years of story or something about restoring sol or/after that we could go to new/ different systems or planets beyond sol. Could have a dangerous discovery or discover a new race of aliens that we could team up with or something. They could go crazy
Heres the possibility for future stories;
Stories about the Nine.
Drifter stories because he has some of the unique stories.
Eramis stories.
Clovis is still around in europa.
Lysander aka concordat the faction that gave us the skimmer.
Lady efrideet is still out there.
And of course the Vex and Xivu.
You can do many standalone stories if Bungie needs time to make their next saga standalone stories is probably the better option.
While there can be interesting stuff after it, Idk if ill ever be interested in the story as much as i am currently after TFS, the Witness stuff is what kept me hooked & even made me return to the game after i took a break (Arrivals). Once the Traveler & the Witness are resolved, idk if itll be as enticing to me
Dont worry there will always be a bigger one
U will see
@@swe_myth7354 doesn't mean I'll like it, part of me kinda would've liked it if Destiny fully concluded with the Witness's defeat
@@BrazarB u dont want the destiny 3 ?
I get what u mean
"Destiny 3: Beyond""
Destiny 3: Eververse
“After you face the witness, we are going to tell you what’s coming next to destiny 2… and Beyond” - Luke Smith 😳😮
Hey, that's my title for i! Haha!
Generic af
Love you and your content cross ❤
EYYYY Cross just want to say watching your videos always brighten my day 😊
The Gardener and the winnower are not actual characters, they just serve as cosmic metaphors in the Unveiling lore book, likely written by The Witness.
Exactly, bro is taking the Witness’s creation myth and taking it literally
ruclips.net/video/PNyM5zYFVR0/видео.htmlsi=Nr_cfTmCT7LqwZF9
I don’t know man. The winnower is pretty clearly not the Witness. The Witness _may_ be the champion of the winnower, but he is a very different character.
They are. And Unveiling wasn't "likely written" by The Witness.
@@Gaberulwho was it written by?
@@turntwiggybecause they ain't myths dawg it's up to interpretation
Why isn’t Cross on the writing team?
Because his solution to everything is "make friendly become evil" lol
I agree so much with this, from a drifter episode, to the different ways that they continue the story, and just the speculation on what’s gonna happen in the final shape
Like you mentioned we have things like the Nine and Xivu, and the exploring places we never been or exploring would be a really good idea, and as for the Civil war idea Byf did make the question on how would organizations within the last city who are super pure about the light react to things like transandence or Osiris's new perspective of what the darkness is?
And on one of the lore cards for Into the light, Ada-1 did mention intrest in gathering things in the cosmodrome while she and Shaax were convincing the foundries to start producing the new versions of the brave weapons.
This is a perfect example of why Marvel was at its peak during the 2010s. Cross cant even remember that there was never an Avengers:Civil War. It was Captain America:Civil War. But it was so epic and big, that it felt like an avengers movie. And it was written by the Russo brothers who also wrote the Endgame and Infinity War. What a time for movies.
The thing with bungee is though they have a lot of stories that still need answers or etc. Like they could do a DLC that we go to Torabottle and help the Cabal from the hive.
I agree with you cross that I think The Nine will be the next “thing” we are dealing with after the Light and Darkness saga ends. Perhaps they push the Aphelion into our worlds and not just in the Ascendant realm. Prequel episodes would be kinda cool, like going back and getting to be around in the Dark Age or early City Age.
Thing with destiny is theres a ton of lore that hasnt been delved into. The nine is a biggest one but theres so much more. Plus any new adventures outside our solar system can be linked to the existing lore as the light and dark stuff went universe wide so despite us not having met whoever it is before we will have links in terms of experiences
All I wanna know is, is Cayde back, or is he a friggin GHOST in the traveler and he cannot leave?
The only thing we know about the nine is that Jamal needs to calm down.
From what I understand the nine are beings comprised of dark matter so I don't know if they'll just show up after the raid, but there might be something to do with them in episodes. Per the gardener/traveler issue, the Gardener and winnower would play their game which kept ending in stalemate, thus the Gardener wanted to change the rules and add a degree of chaos/unpredictability in the game. I believe the traveler is the physical manifestation of the gardeners will to inject chaos into the game/existence.
Loved that civil war idea. Would love to see something where we make a decision and it matters. Would be a reason to play on other characters
Just wanna remind everyone that the Witness did NOT write the book of Unveiling. The author there does not mach the tone that the Witness has which begs the question on who or what was it that talked to us in that book?
Here b4 all the lore fanatics come who want to defend the possibility that it was badly retconned and now the witness is th Autor
You are right, the tone does not Match, they dont even want the same final shape, the battle in the garden really happened, because we literally have the stump of the tree of silver wings in the Black garden and the grids of flowers for the flower game and ingame dialogue speaking about the destroyed tree, then we have eido herself saying the winnower and the witness dont act the same, so even if the book is some religious text, it speaks of historical accounts that happened, meaning someone fought in the garden and destroyed the tree of silver wings, and there is nothing ingame that clearly says the gardener and winnower never existed. So either this storyline with the winnower or gardener was a thing for a long time and bungie just recently scrapped it and really badly retconned it like they have done so many times (nezarec for example was one of the worst retconns) or its still a thing and bungie keeps their cards close to their chests.
Personally I'd love to see a civil war thing with the dragon eggs, some think they are too dangerous and now we can back out of our part of the deal and a smaller group wants to keep the eggs and hide or raise the dragons
Anything Paul tassi says I expect the opposite. The man will entertain anything that he sees bringing viewers
What he described about choosing sides and locking you in to different sides and stories... We already did that over a year ago. "Drifter will remember your choice".
The start of D3 is us making good on our aliances with House of Light and Caitl and we go get their home planets back and in working order. The overarching story is after Final Shape (whatever it does) it has gotten the attention of The 9, and as the lore has said they have been split into two groups of The 4 and The 5 and players get to pick which group they want to help assist in their goals. The second expansion the Faction leaders come back and have joined to become one faction against Guardians due to the outcome of Final Shape which brings a new enemy faction of humans/exos with light supressing attacks since they know us well. They also have Destiny warlords working with them so they can have revenge on Ikora/Zvala. Also two of Riven's eggs have been found with the 3rd one still missing somewhere, and the found two are starting to hatch...
Episodes would be dealing with old battles we never saw, Twilight Gap, Battle of 6 Fronts, and missions working with the Hidden and Fenchurch.
They lost me when I found out they were using Destiny funds TO MAKE ANOTHER GAME. Constantly talking about attracting a new player base instead of staying loyal to the loyal group of players. To quote lockdown” The problem with being loyal to a cause is, the cause will always betray you.
Not just 1 game.
I mean yeah i partly see where you're coming from here but this is how it works and has allways worked. No game devs sink all their profits back into the game that made the profits. If this were the case there would never be growth.
You sell a product take part of the revenue to make the next one.
People are talking about this as of this is not the industry standard and allways has been.
We should have an expansion with the Drifter where we explore outside of Sol 😊
Dang, goes way deeper than I could have ever imagined.
Marvel went ultra woke and made trash after end game.
Don't use words if you don't know what they mean
Spiderman 3, Shang-Chi, Ant Man 3, Doctor Strange 2 & Guardians 3 were nowhere near trash.
@@fpsmarcusagreed, we have another fool on our hands
During the first 3 phase marvel had a comitee that supervised the quality of their movies but now they don't
💯
The Drifter's Light/Dark Ambiguity is so good for his alt story line with The Nine and making his banks. I would kill for an episode following him around. I could imagine us taking the HELM on a long mission to get to his Murder Planet and uncovering some crazy stuff.
By focusing on the vex, literally could go anywhere with them but if we find out how to take the fight to them and go at their existence would be very cool. They’ve been very underutilized and been benchwarmers for sentient robots that are time travelers.
I had a theory that because they are bringing back up the concordat recently, that they plan on possibly doing that Civil War as Aztecross said but I was thinking this is what a TV show would be about is building up the lore of the concordat and their motives as we don't know them and it would be much easier to produce since it would rely more on people than having CGI aliens. The finale of that TV show or film or w/e could culminate in the battle of Bannerfall where the Concordat loses and sets up Lysanders return in the actual Destiny game.
Basically doing a similar thing to the Fallout TV show where you do a big marketing push through a TV show that reaches a lot more people to get them invested in a universe and story and that means money and lots of players.
The traveler and the veil are the classic yin and yang. Total order and utter chaos. Kind a cool narrative that we master the balance with prismatic
The 2 big plot points I want to see in episodes 1.) Xivu Arath never seen her in person and she’s incredibly weak after Eris destroyed her throne world. 2.) Eramis disappeared after the traveler was grounded and she is kinda neutral she hates what the witness does to her fallen kin via scorned but she also hates the light bc of the whirlwind.
The precursors called the traveler the gardener but thats not tied directly to the unveiling lore book which is where we get the gardener/winnower dichotomy. Theyre two seperated instances of the term gardener
They could do the dark age, a whole new universe(multiverse), expand on the nine, go to the vex forge star Volantis 2082 and so much more. The Destiny lore is so deep they could easily keep it going another 10 years imo
if the traveller is the light (bestows the gift of light on those whose virtues and actions reflect its goals)
the veil is Prismatic (a blend of light and dark that coexist and allow the user to enhance one or the other or both within an undetermined set of boundaries or guidelines; the witness uses darkness with the veil to LEARN about entering the traveller and LEARN how to continue making strides towards its final shape, and the witness uses the light with the veil to mold the universe into its final shape and maybe was using the light in the process of it MAKING the portal)
and this unknown object we havent seen yet but will probably learn about in final shape is the darkness.
There's some neat lore ideas they could play around with. Torobatl needs to be reclaimed from the hive still. There's the whole Eliksni "Kell of Kells" prophecy and potential uniting of the Eliksni as a whole. Clovis Bray is still on Europa, potentially plotting some things. Lysander is still out there obviously keeping an eye on the city and also potentially plotting some stuff. Just a few ideas.
The Unveiling Lore book that describes the Winower and gardener is not told to us by the witness, its from the perspective of the entity known as "The Winower". As asa said, the traveler and the light causes chaos and destruction to the universe, like how the gardener changed the rules in the game to break the pattern of the final shape that it thought was boring and dumb. This caused all the flowers to wilt and die and be reborn constantly never reaching a true end. Asa says that when the Witness' orgininal people found the veil it taught them how to create the final shape, or restore the flower game to its intended pattern that the gardener had disrupted with the chaos of the light. When the Witness' people tried to use the veil to return reality back to the final shape, the way the flower game was intended to play, the traveler fled not wanting its plans to be ruined because it is trying to change the game of reality. The Winower is just sitting back reaping the dead flowers knowing that eventually the pattern will be restored no matter what the gardener does because entities like the witness will always find the truth and try to restore reality to how it should be in its eyes. So yeah there are still two super cosmic entities out there somewhere that are the winower and the gardener and they do interact with reality through the traveler and the veil. Its possible they are beings similar to The Nine but much older and more powerful since they have been around since before the creation of reailty and The Nine have only been around since the creation of our solar system.
I would love to see The Drifter have a significant role in TFS or a chapter. He seems pretty knowledgeable on the darkness, light and experiments on both but we never see it.
While a Drifter season specifically wouldn't be my first choice I think the idea is a good one. I'd be down for an espionage related one where we work directly with Ikora's Hidden to uncover some mystery that arises after taking down the Witness. Bungie has always been able to tell good stories, the twisty turny narrative from the Witch Queen being the highlight for me.
My interpretation of the Gardener and Winnower thing is that the Witness is an emissary of the Winnower which is the capital T capital D “The Darkness” which would mean the traveler is a ship of whatever is the emissary of the Gardener or the capital T capital L “The Light”. Basically that the traveler is kind of a ship or a vessel for whatever directly serves The Gardener
I agree. I would love to have a story about the Drifter and the nine. There is so much potential in the stories of Destiny. I stopped playing for several reasons, but one of those was because the stories started feeling more like a fanfiction or too quick with little explanation around the time the game became a live service. I also may be in the minority with that sentiment, but it would be cool to delve into these stories.
What if things dont end like we think they will, and then at the end we find a way to travel time and the only way to survive now is to go back and stop the witness from even being formed. I know I know time paradoxes but just a thought (I also can’t remember off the top what savathuns truths and lies were)
There's a lot you could do. Like a vex god that eats or absorbs the witness when he's weakened by us at the end of the raid in order to segway into a more "sentience vs ultramind" story
I think its a smart way of doing the story like this. Obviously the Darkness story is the most important, so it gets the big expansion. But if its like I picture, these first episodes will give us the other conclusions/continuations we need.
There is a tracker for every vale scattered across the cosmos in galaxies
the whole "Civil War" idea already sorta happened. Back in season of the drifter, whenwe got to choose Drifter or the vanguard
Minor version obviously because this happened during Joker's Wild/Season of the Drifter, not a DLC. Could expand on this in the future
For me there’s three ways that I feel episodes and the story following Final Shape would actually retain players well. 1. Insane loot + dungeon. 2. A story that further broadens the world view of Destiny, maybe something like new factions or enemies (maybe the Nine) filling in the space the Witness left behind (Xivu will probably fit this, but I can’t help but see it as a downgrade from the scale of the Witness). And 3. Creating more down to the ground, tight stories that focus on character building in a better way than weekly small story drops. This could be following the story of the Drifter, learning more about him (especially because season of the Drifter was years ago and no longer in the game for newer players), then moving onto his links to the Nine, maybe encountering what he and his crew saw on that ice planet (not sure if it was confirmed to be Europa). Y’know, maybe venture down under the ice of Europa where we hear the creature roars coming from. I dunno. Something exciting or well plotted out.
They had the whole layout for a year of destiny civil war. There was a mission back in the day where you chose to side with the drifter or the vanguard.
D3- Prologue- We travel around rescuing distant systems from the remaining Witness forces. Xivu and her brood have aligned with the Vex and become cyborg hive. They launch an assault against us.
I could see some parts falling out of the Witness in the Raid, that will become the not-final-encounter Bosses so that once we fought them, the Witness is weakened by the time we reach it and can finally defeat it.
I'd like to see how light and dark bases abilities move forward lore-wise, in the series. Do the gaurdians pass away, finally able to rest? Is there some sort I'd synergy between light and dark? Or do we transcend making use of Cloud Strider tech to forge a new breed of guardian?
Would love them to revisit siva and fill out that story it could be really cool, an episode about the fallen houses would be good where we have to recruit other fallen houses as allies, to fight rogue fallen houses and leaders in a full scale large battle scenario, depending on who you recruit/kill could have impacts on the world around - or find them a permanent planet of their own etc, the vex could always be the next big bad as well, I’m sure they have possibilities locked away
I hopped back in D2 for the first time in over a year when guardian games dropped and havent stopped playing since the recent content has been super fun.
Rewatching this reminded me of the power of rituals in the Destiny universe. If the ritual used to create the Witness embodied the aspect of order, then what ritual embodied the aspect of chaos? Was it the creation of ghosts? Has such a ritual been done before?
I also think of the lore where the witness describes the Winnower and Gardener playing a game until they decided to cheat and manifest their will into the game itself. However, the Traveler and Winnower function as soulless gods and are more like forces of nature. For the Winnower, is that manifestation the Witness? What is the Traveler’s manifestation?
The sword logic functions on the same concept, but instead seeks to refine by cutting away weakness. The Witness achieved the same concept via unification.
The most important thing Bungie can do post-Final Shape is that they need to scale back the threats to be smaller and more personal in nature, we don't need to get stuck in that awful cycle of constantly needing to 1-up ourselves every few months after we already peaked.
I think a lot of games make a mistake in going harder, higher, faster, more complex, and they eventually lose the average player. Many sequels don’t grow, and sometimes it’s just good to deliver on the experience people expect and love.
I believe the Traveller is Vex. I think the Traveller isn't an entity itself, I think the Traveller was built around the Pale Heart, the actual sentient entity inside the Traveller, in order to create some sort of paracausal fabricator. Think about it: the Vex have no way of simulating paracausality, it's the one thing they can't account for. So they would have absolutely taken the opportunity to seize and use the Pale Heart and the Veil (The heart in the Black Garden was their attempt at recreating the Veil) as a means of reining in the one thing they couldn't control themselves. Not only that, but with the both of them, they would be able to turn the UNIVERSE ITSELF into a simulation. They could literally create, destroy and change whatever they want to fit their simulations.
Also. Look at the cutscene when the Traveller opens up and fires on the Witness's Pyramid. Looked hella Vex-y on the inside to me, but that could've just been generic machinery, I guess...
What if the Vex never felt the need to send huge forces against us, because one of their most powerful members of their number has literally been floating over our heads for millennia 👀
The winnower and the gardener were hypothetical representations of the Philosophies that the witness and the traveler respectively live under. The whole lore book was a metaphor describing that both their ideologies for how reality "should" function are based off of cosmic principles that have existed before either of them existed, not a historical telling of actual events that happened at the start of the universe. They represent real people and entities, but the story is a framework we should use as a method of understanding them, not defining them in any empirical way.
World of Warcraft has gone through similar struggles in following up the cosmic big bads that had been established in their original titles. Bungie needs to avoid the trap (that Blizzard fell in) of power scaling their villains and trying to make someone bigger and badder than the Witness. There are plenty of loose ends in the Destiny universe that could be tied up (Eramis, Xivu, The 9). Our goals need to shift from saving the universe (again) and struggling to survive, to settling our scores and exploring along the way.
My prediction for Episodes will be
1: The Dread attempt to corrupt/kill the Traveler after giving up on the Final Shape
2: Bringing back Fikrul the Fanatic and comparing our immortality to the Scorns
3: Xivu-Arath attempts to resurrect Oryx after colluding with the Scorn
In Taken King we went up against Oryx on a one on one then he escaped to his throne room..which is where we did the Kings Fall raid...we doing this same thing in the final shape but in reverse..facing the Witness one on one after the Raid which is why we aren't getting the last mission till after the raid
They already did that drifter or the vanguard thing and it ment nothing because they didnt follow up on it
I think that the only big thing they can do from now on, is with the Vex. The vex is actually the only race we still don't know a lot about. They could easily expand and do something big with the origins of the vex. The fallen and hive story is pretty much concluded, as well as the cabals story.
I would love for D3 they would go back to the golden age and show events that lead upto the collapse and the story at the beginning of the collapse. Another option is to show the Darkness side and you get to play as cabal, vex, hive
you're not in the minority when it comes to an episode of just the Drifter, Dude has always been that character to me that was that "necessary evil", that "mysterious Outlaw" in western movies that just catches your attention. Dude has seen/gone threw some crazy things, and I would just love to have an entire story or just him.
Whatever the Gardener is ... the Traveler is its equivalent of a garden trowel.
Similarly, whatever the Winnower is, the veil is it's idea of a weedwhacker.
If those are their simple tools ... imagine their idea of a supercomputer or a combat craft.
No one besides new lights use patrol anymore and I think it’d be a weird but cool thing to revamp the game. What if we did patrol in a division style of gameplay and we have a destiny “dark age” style event. Where going on patrol you get an escalating chance of better loot the longer you’re there BUT other guardians can come in and steal the loot that you’ve gotten during that time period. This idea isn’t polished but having a reason to go to patrol as an end game player would be cool. You could even give each planet unique exotics and legendary drops so you have reasons to go to each planet to grind this gear. I think it’d be a really cool way to revamp a part of the game and it’d fit the lore of “you can use the dark and light for either evil or good as a guardian”
What ever happened to that drifter quest where we chose sides between him and the vanguard?
All the language we have to refer to the full spectrum of paracausality in the D2 universe comes from the Witness, or whoever is telling the story in the cutscene. It’s controlled how we interpret and interact with forces since the first risen.
I would like to play as Zabala for a couple of missions, or the Drifter... I think it could be nice just use their powers and their weapons while playing their story...
Things they could branch to(some cross said some i thought of):
1. Drifter exploration season
2. D2 civil war
3. D2 guardian where we fight evil guardians
4. Huge vex themed problem- we go into the vex network and try to take down the vex from their world.
4. Dark future saga- go into elsie's future and try to free her people since she helped us so much.