Hyperspeed is Insanely Fast
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
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I think all ships in Star Wars travel at the speed of plot.
lol
:-D :-D :-D A good one.
I believe that your statement perfectly applies for the films (or at least some of them) and perhaps also the TV shows.
However, more thought has usually, not always, been put into this reality within the work of the Expanded Universe (now Legends) to make it feel more "realistic" (if this word can ever be used in such a debate), because lots of the authors were nerds who liked this kind of stuff, plus they did not have to hasten a pace of the stories as much as the film creators usually must.
Having said that, I'm fairly sure that one would also find in those works quite a few instances of nonsensical speeds.
Green Dragoon yeah. Lol.
And the first series of Discovery.
It's been clear since the original trilogy that they traveled much faster than star trek ships.
Interestingly.. Game of Thrones has a similar problems. Westeros is really England. Some of the cities in the same locations are even named similarly. But it was made 4x as big so it would be a full on continent. Then Martin or HBO forgot and used travel distances based on england-- not westeros. So you have very high speed dragons (about 2,000 miles in 24-48 hours), and armies that move at modern mechanized speed.
I read somewhere (may have been a break down of slipspace on a Halo centric forum, can't remember) that compared ftl and stl travel as if the galaxy were a ball of yarn. travel in real space followed the main yarn, hyperspace were the individual threads that made of the main strand, and all the empty space in the ball was slip space. The hyper lanes were still present in real space, but needed a hyperdrive to access them. And courses had to be plotted along these specific lanes, and ships were not able to deviate from them without weird shit happening. Such as coming out of hyperspace at a location far from where you intended. Where as slip space traveled in the dimensions between physical and hyperspace. More direct routes could be "plotted" but navigation was imprecise, and you could drop out millions of kilometers from your intended destination.
As for speeds in SW vs ST. I was always under the impression that warp drives could only sustain warp speeds for a limited time. The slower the speed, the longer you could stay at warp, and the father you could travel. Where as with hyper drives, your trip was determined by your astrogation computer, hyperspace lane data, and fuel. With most ships only being able to plot out so many jumps before having to recalculate. So, if you could get from points a to b to c faster, you could plot d, e and f sooner. Hyperspace travel depended greatly upon how fast your ship could go once in hyperspace, as the faster you went the less effect gravity shadows had on your ships plotted route. Hense why the Kessel run was measured in parsecs rather than time (yes, I know, a retcon)
When Finn says "Four parsecs to go," I'm assuming he means within hyperspace. I'm also assuming that distances in hyperspace are not the same as distances within normal space. FTL travel in Star Wars doesn't have a great canonical technical explanation, but based on everything we've seen, I assume that when starships enter hyperspace, they aren't just traveling fast, they are in an entirely different plane of existence that allows their normal propulsion to move them through far greater distances in shorter amounts of time. I also think it's purposely nebulous so that the technicality of it doesn't distract from storytelling, but I would accept an explanation that hyperspace distances and velocities have NOTHING to do with the departure and arrival points in normal space. That there are hyperspace threads and lanes throughout the galaxy and navigating them is not at all related to a Euclidean understanding of three dimensional space. Also, that would explain why the "Unknown Regions" remain largely uncharted. There are fewer hyperspace lanes that go there or some upper dimensional anomalies make the hyperspace in that part of the galaxy much harder to navigate.
In some legends source it's stated that a class 2 would take 2 weeks to cross the Hydian Way (120k+ lightyears).
something interesting about hyperspace is you'd be able to see ur ship in 2 spots at the same time. you could travel somewhere then look through a telescope and see ur ship once the speed of light catches up to where you are currently.
You're telling me no one in the Delta Quadrant invented hyperspace?
Honestly, I assumed Star Wars stories just pulled numbers out of their ass most of the time and didn't care too much about canonical accuracy. At least not to the lengths Star Trek goes to. And that's fine -- Wars leans more on fantasy and adventure, so I don't really expect (or even look closely at) technical accuracy or consistency.
It's not hyper speed, hyperspace is an alternative dimension where everything is way closer, so they cravel through that, but I think their ships are about as fast as light without hyperspace
All of the fan fiction I've written has gone by the old estimates that a trip across the galaxy would take months. Being stuck in hyperspace gives time for character building. To quote Review Brah, my disappointment is immeasurable, and my day is ruined. Thanks Rian Johnson.
How can a galactic map be accurate if everything in the galaxy is moving along different axes at different rates of speed?
Also, what does God need with a starship?
Lol, awesome comment!
I remember reading in the tech books for Star Wars that obi wan’s Jedi starfighter in the clone wars could make a single hyperspace jump of 75000 LY in something like 6 hours. So I find this fairly believable.
If Voyager had that hyperdrive the borg would be constantly after that ship to assimilate that tech
Yeah, dunno, but things don't add up. I thought a hyperdrive with a '4' rating went 1/4 speed of light, whereas one w a .5 rating went twice the speed of light. Things seem wonky and don't have good explanations, but travel times and speeds within a space opera are pretty important to be resolved well ahead of time. I mean, talk about a plot tool that needs a global and consistet set of rules within which to operate.
It's not like we didn't know what the spee of light was, and how large stellar distances were, back in the late 70s.
I always saw hyperspace speed as being completely dependent on the proximity and strength of gravity wells and the accuracy of navigational data. "Hyperspace lanes" were such because they were well mapped and had minimal gravitational interference where the hyperdrive could be opened up. To say you could cross the galaxy in 12 hours wouldn't be accurate as you would need to take a circuitous route and not a straight line but the same distance in open space? Sure.
Star Wars Hyperspace Routes are Star Trek Transwarp Corridors.
Sounds about right.
Considering how badly the sequels applied space physica and force powers. I wouldn't use those for anything. Try The Clone Wars. Their hyperspace travel was a lot more reasonable. The Venator had a class one hyperdrive.
Hyperspace speeds absolutely vary depending on the hyper-routes. Ships can move much faster through well-charted hyperlanes (like the Correllian Run or Hyperion Way for example). Minor hyperlanes are not as well charted and ships must go slower through them. And the difference can be vast. Going from the core world of Coruscant to Tatooine is like a day, whereas it can be weeks to get to someplace much closer because there are no major hyperlanes in that direction. This has all been established since the 1980s. That's why speed is rated as a multiplier of travel time, and not an absolute speed (like lightyears per hour, etc). Instead, you look at the travel times on the chart, which is all about the nature of the hyperlanes, and then you multiply by the hyperdrive multiplier.
this
double this
Triple this. While warp don't need lines if im correct.
@@rohenthar8449 correct, point in direction and go.
Since the show was all about exploring, I guess that is by design. Whereas star wars was a more well explored galactic community with strategically important stable trade lanes.
They tech is usually a function of the theme.
It’s like the difference between taking a highway to get somewhere as opposed to a state road
Yes, but you forgot *Spaceballs* and their *Ludicrous Speed*
When you go plaid, all bets are off.
Go past this part. In fact, never play this again.
And the necrons and their I shit you not the faster then everyone drives
@@Fishrokk p l a i d
Haiperspace Is a different dimension
Meanwhile in Warhammer 40k, of you use FTL travel:
- you may not arrive at the right time
- you may not arrive at the right place
- you may not arrive at all
Honestly I don't know why 'anyone' in 40k uses that FTL system when the risks are so damn great, surely the physics in that universe allows for even 'slow' Warp Drives.
@@mrbuttocks6772 The answer is there is no other alternative unless you’re the necrons with their magic level technology. Without warp travel the imperium itself would fall apart over night.
Or you will arise. But by the time you do, it's like 5 million years in the future
@@MrCOLBSTAH Or three thousand years before you were born.
@@mrbuttocks6772 The Eldar Webway is faster and safer than Warp but still requires whatever magic mumbo jumbo Eldars have in their ships to access. Meanwhile, the Tau has their Ether/gravitic drives that are waaaaaaay slower than Webway or Warp travel, but much safer and more consistent.
FTL is always interesting grounds in SciFi. Star Trek has Warp Speed which may well be slower, but it's a slower paced franchise in general. Halo is interesting where Human ships could escape into slipspace only to find the Covenant fleet that left hours after them, waiting for their emergence. Forerunner mastered FTL to the point their infantry have it.
And then there's Warhammer 40k, where you can arrive as early as yesterday and as late as 500 years in the future.
there have been ships that existed the warp in 40k that entered it before the fall of the eldar empire so 10 to 15 thousand years, and it only felt like a few hours to them. meanwhile there have been ships that arrived a few hours after they left but the crew experienced thousands of years
@@matthiuskoenig3378 Holy crap the warp is an even shittier FTL Option than I thought with this tidbit.
@@kraigisboss Everything about 40k is shitty. It's a horrible, horrible place to live. And we love it.
@@destyrian sounds like Palatine would have a vacation home there lol
You forgot to mention that in Warhammer 40k there is also the possibility to make a covenant with a god while you are traveling, so things don't get boring. In-flight entertainment! :D
Hyperspace speed is heavily dependent on the amount of data available. Using a major trade lane will let you cross the galaxy at mindblowing speeds. Traveling throw the middle of nowhere - well.
It's not that you can't go fast without data, it's just that you would essentially be driving your car blind and hoping you don't slam into anything while going fast. They go slow so that way if something pops up in their path they have more time to stop. It's why the randomness of the purrgil annoys people, especially when they cause crashes.
With the lack of cohesive, planned, Canonical writing in these movies I think looking too deeply into any details may well make the entire thing unravel... in many spots it feels like the writers of one film are TRYING to unravel any continuity from the previous film.
Kind of like real life, I remember me and my family went on a road trip and my dad had the bright idea to take a shortcut through the woods, said we would get there in half the time it would take using the main roads, it ended up taking even longer then if we just used the highway XD
"They'll never get there in time to save him, they have to come half-way across the galaxy." -- Padme, Attack of the Clones
If anything, that says more about the Geonosian justice system and how they deal with spys.
then again, that was hyperspace tech from around 70 years before
@@luiscolin7775 I think Acclamator-class assault ships have pretty fast hyperdrives, though. I think they have Class 1.0 hyperdrives.
@@MaxWelton they have class 0.6
@@joelbibeault1169 No, they don't.
I always thought that "hyperspace" travel was basically going into a separate, parallel type of space and then exiting out at a different point. In the normal space, it would be like traveling faster than light, but you would still be traveling at regular speeds around actual obstacles in that other space. It, therefore would vary based on the route in hyperspace.
Welp, when Admiral Gender Studies (i.e. Holdo) pushed the last Rebel (Resistance...oh well, not even the freaking writer know which is which anyway...)cruiser into hyperspace to kill the Supremacy, she (well, the SOB who wrote that malignancy into existence) KILLED every theory everyone had been building on how hyperspace worked in the past 40 years...so your theory is as dead as everyone else's! Subvert expectations? More like subvert the whole universe and throw it into the nearest black hole...
TSEDLE333 The Last Jedi is not canon. It was just Luke who had a bad Dream....
TSEDLE333 -- afraid that movie can't count toward canon if the writer is too stupid to know how the universe they are writing about works. (Unless canon is a tool of the patriarchy and "in universe" feminists can ignore it whenever they want)
I am fairly certain that the ship goes into hyperspace after it is done accelerating or doing to initial jump.
Meh, canon is whatever the writers decide it is. Always has been, always will be, in all fictional universes. We say hyperspace is another dimension, but we can clearly see celestial bodies from our own 3D space turning into bars of light that rush past us. Even Han says (in the clip in this video) that they have to navigate around stars and planets when travelling in "hyperspace." Hyperspace can't be another dimensional space or level or reality that has different physics and actually has stars and planets in it; after all, those things can only exist because of the physical constants of our universe, chief among them being the speed of light. Hyperspace is just a term, a plot device, used by writers to suggest that there's a way to beat the speed of light. It will never be logically consistent because, like all technologies in all fictional universes, it is only there to serve the writers.
As to the misogynistic epithets some of you are tagging Holdo with....I know, right? How dare a female occupy a prominent position in OUR universe, let alone make the ultimate sacrifice to protect her people? Also she has purple hair and isn't as pretty as Leia, damn her eyes and may her spawn be cursed unto the fiftieth generation.
Since Star Wars doesn’t really care about science and hyperspace is a different dimension maybe there are hyperspace currents
More like mass creates gravity shadows and wells on the dimension, so flying near a planet in hyperspace or a star is a bad idea, its gravity well will pull you out, then its either a case of SPLAT or burning up. It's why interdictors work, they create fake gravity wells and anything passing by loses their hyperdrive.
No not evan the people in star wars don't fully understand it It was reverse enginerd from a specicis named the rucatdan so shut up
@@robertnegotei3495 I bet your diet consists of fried butter.
If you think star trek gives two shits about science either I've got bad news for your understanding of science.
There's so much unobtainium, technobabble and utter bs it's just as ludicrous.
Just pop popcorn, sit back and unplug your brain.
The fanboiz who argue one sides more accurate than the other makes Asimov spin so hard in his grave we could end oil dependency just by hooking a generator to the corpse.
@@robertnegotei3495 you mean the Rakata?
It's magic and we know that a wizard arrives exactly when he intends to.
Unless he is.... delayed.
Brah it is a different dimension and the speed is dependent on the hipperdrive class if the main one is destroyerd or not the class of the backup usually much slower like class 10+ natural gravity wels like black holes or roge stars artificial ones named interdictors
In legends, they measured hyperspace closer to 1,500x the speed of light....it's very inconsistent...I think Hyperspace speeds are as fast or slow as the script and screen writers need it to be.
WE TRAVEL AT THE SPEED OF PLOT
Seems to be the same with warp drive really. we know what the tech manuals say, but they violate those figures constantly. I play a lot of Elite Dangerous and I learned that at 500c it takes forever to get anywhere.....lol
Tasty Treats It depends on the ship in my opinion.
Speeds below 1.2 million times light are extremely unlikely, given the 'days/weeks' to cross the galaxy assumption. The slowest flight was actually Tatooine to Geonosis, which may have taken over a day to cross only 1 parsec/ 3 light years.
Legends is stupid.
Trips in Star Wars across the galaxy take a matter of hours or at most days.
Trips in Star Trek across the galaxy take Decades. It's the foundational plot point of Voyager.
That's for 24th century Starfleet. Various other races in Trek can cross the galaxy in days, hours or minutes. By the 29th century, Starfleet can casually time travel anywhere instantly. This context is important for comparison.
yea, but they are measuring distance by lightspeed and calculating base on that, hence the light day, week, or years. Warpspeed is calculated on that. Warp 1 = the speed of light or 189,000 miles a second, warp 2 = 2x2x2 or 8x the speed of light and so on.
@@orencio1969 ...You forgot the Cochrane factor, for the effect of mass, averaging 1292.7238c for Wf1 from the Introduction to Navigation booklet, Star Trek Maps.
2x2x2x 1292.7238 for an example.
the Borg get around just fine
@@cgdimension Borg Transwarp Hub; deployment anywhere in the galaxy in minutes.
Yeah when obi wan had to travel to the water planet in the "outer rim" he jumps in a pod about the size of a lazy boy chair and gets there before lunch
He probably even had lunch with the Kamino Prime Minister before he tussled with Jango Fett.
Not even the outer rim. Kamino is extragalactic, on the fringes of the Rishi galaxy, which is a companion galaxy to the main one (and so decently close in terms of galaxies), but still pretty far out.
@@littlechickeyhudak yeah camino is insanely close in terms of galaxies but it is still a rarely visited world which disproves the common theory that regularly used hyperlanes are faster.
@@thehighground3630 although part of the trip would’ve been through dark space between galaxies. I wouldn’t assume there’s many obstacles that have to be carefully navigated around. It’s also possible that the Rishi Galaxy isn’t aligned with the main galaxy’s plane of orbit, meaning he could’ve simply had to go “up” out of the galactic disc, giving him a straight shot through empty space to Rishi
@@littlechickeyhudak the rishi maze is indeed above the galaxy and to the side. So a decent part of the journey would have been through emty space but still the theory says that a hyperlanes gets faster if it's more commonly used. That's apparently how the hyperlanes first developed.
4:04 "So that means one of two things..."
You are neglecting a third possibility: the writers are complete hacks.
also his measurements on the size of the star wars galaxy would greatly affect the final number.
100K Ly may be far larger than the actual size of the star wars galaxy
@@KittyFoxKitsune that's actually reasonable. Consider the millennium falcon flies from the hoth system, to the bespin system without a hyper drive (I know later retcons added a backup hyper drive that it used for this, but that's BS, as if we follow retcon rules some other things break badly) in a few days to weeks not a few hundred or thousand years.
So either bespin is now in the same system as hoth, which it's not, they are shown to be over a 1000ly apart at minimum or light travels far slower in the SW universe, which actually makes sense when you consider their directed energy weapons moving so slowly. Thus a LY is actually far smaller in SW than in star trek, in turn I also argue that standard gravity is far lower on SW to explain who swings and base model tie fighters (max speed 100MGTL, max accel 20MGTL or 4100g/s) in theorgy fly speeds upto 200900m/s (2009km/s or 72323km/hr), and fight at the speeds with normal human reactions. Take into account at that speed, the death star trench run lasts less than a 10th of a second, and that's a full lap. So, either they just make up numbers for fun at times, or they are morons. I go for the latter, as they give ships in space max speeds, which is stupid. Ships have maximum acceleration, a max speed only applies to an object encountering resistance.
@@cgi2002 A for effort, but the correct answer was: The writers are complete hacks.
The correct answer is, of course, that the writers are complete hacks... That being said, nothing in any of the Star Wars movies leads me to believe that the Star Wars galaxy is very large at all. Consider the senate in the prequels, my guess is that there are 500 seats there. Many planets aren't part of the Republic and many planets aren't even inhabited and perhaps only relatively major planets are represented. But from what we have seen, many planets with small populations are represented, so... I figure we are looking at maybe 1,000 planets with significant populations, Maybe, 2-3,000 others with outposts or the like, and perhaps a hundred thousand or so total stars. Oh, and a parsec is a unit of measure which is based on earth's orbit. At that distance an object would have one arc second of apparent shift over 6 months (half the earth's orbit.) Every planet would have a different measurement for what a parsec is based on it's orbital diameter.
@@cgi2002 Actually when you travel at speeds over I think two thirds of lightspeed (don't quote me on that one) the near vacuum of space starts behaving like air because there are particles flowing around but with far more distance than in atmospheres.
On the other hand does everything in the SW universe travel with the speed of plot so who cares.
Everybody gangsta until the flying space church comes out the inmaterium with echoes of the damn souls of hell at it back.
"Prepare the ship for ludicrous speed!"... "They've gone to plaid!"
You're always preparing! Just go!
The inconsistency of Hyperspace speeds is pretty consistent with what we know from previous canons. It's why hyperspace lanes are important. They presumably make hyperspace lanes faster.
I know it's a year later, but did you say that hyperspace lanes make hyperspace lanes faster?
@AmplifiedSilence Hyperspace is analogous to Minecraft's Nether, key differences being that (according to the EU) Hyperspace is composed of a highly energetic, exotic matter that would annihilate normal matter similar to anti-matter (which is why we only see a "tube" when ships enter it, for it is not a corridor or tunnel, but a shield protecting the ship from Hyperspace itself), is occasionally patrolled by starweird, is influenced by massive bodies in normal space (usually in the form of mass shadows, which can cause a slew of accidents such as going nuclear (but still remaining in Hyperspace), just simply being stranded there, being blended by gravity, blown across time, disintegrating, dropping out of Hyperspace (Oh, and in the case that you drop out of Hyperspace unintentionally, your ship most likely immobile and you have to deal with whatever pulled you out too.), etc.), has different universal constants (especially the values for special and general relativity), and is much more condensed than normal space (increasing the chances of accidents in that dimension). This is not Star Trek's Warp, where they bend (mostly empty) space to propel themselves, this is Star Wars, where we blast ourselves into an entire dimension of its own, to bypass the light speed limit.
@@MarioPerez-ng9it It's interesting to think about how the legends explanation lines up with what we've seen in THR, with (LOTJ spoilers) the Legacy Run disaster, the San Tekkas and their hyperspace prospecting empire, and the Nihil and their paths. It's also being depicted as somewhat like water or air, with turbulence and rough spots that actually cause a physical change in colour. (Spoiler end)
I hope we get fully fleshed out lore soon, because trying to piece it together is a real headache
@@littlechickeyhudak It is, but it is a fun headache.
One other issue with the map is that it's a 2-d representation of a 3-d space. The actual distances could be even greater than they appear!
Galaxies are practically 2 dimensional at this scale. The Milky Way is about 100 times wider than its disc is deep.
@@YIIMM That doesn’t change the fact that with only safe lanes of travel it would be a bitch. Play elite dangerous and you’ll see that if you had to use specific routes it would grind your travel speed down.
@@cryamistellimek9184 You've changed the topic.
@@YIIMM No I didnt? I’m giving an example to prove his point? Because it’s a game where the galaxy is scaled so you can see having to move up and down as actually a big deal you can witness yourself.
@@cryamistellimek9184 You're claiming a counterpoint to a point no one was arguing in the first place.
Late to the party, but I always took hyperspace to be essentially near-infinite speed, primarily limited by finding paths not interdicted by natural gravity wells. Thus, the hyperspped factors of engines are not velocity, but tolerance of gravity wells, allowing you to take longer jumps with less lane clearance.
with regards to spacetime relativity, the difference between the two understandings fades
Yes I agree with this comment a lot, elite dangerous fsd drive shows a realistic version of this
Also fuel burns fast so you can’t go that far without refueling, Star Wars goes around this by having fuel be used slow in hyperdrive, elite dose the opposite and it goes faster in the regular enigne(seems the same but it’s not)
I can go with that, given that it was established in Legends that a hyperdrive would not even function in a gravity well, which is why the Empire build vessels like the Interdictor-class cruisers with the gravity well projectors. Something that they threw out the window with the sequel trilogy.
@@CharlesHuse Which is why I hate the new trend of showing ships make the jump while still within a planet's atmosphere. Or the Force Awakens "we'll come out of hyperspace really, really close to the planet" method.
Nothing beats Dune's folding space. Travelling without moving.
The Spice MUST flow
Or the spore drive anywhere any time
@@aditya3127 The spore drive was a dumb idea.
Yeah, those Star Wars ships may be fast, can can they go Warp 10 infinite "freaky salamander sexy time" velocity fast? I think not!
Jack Harrison, warp 10 needs INFINITE POWER which is impossible
@@daniusredshadowdragon508
Except when they actually did go warp 10 in VOY.
yobeefjerky, I completely forgot about that episode!
Hmmm class .1 hyperdrive anyone?.... No OK! (slaps one on X-Wing) CATCH ME IF YOU CAN FEDERATION SLIME!
Hush you! We do not speak of that abomination
Having different speeds at different locations for hyperspace makes sense: after all battles are fought over hyperspace lanes
But how do we know that the (far, far away) Star Wars galaxy is the same size as our own (and Star Trek) galaxy?
It does seem to make sense that hyperspace or subspace (or whatever) has "lanes" or "weather" or "terrain" which affect travel speeds between different points.
@@pwnmeisterage it was stated a while ago that the star wars galaxy was comparable in size to our own, now weather or not that's still cannon I dont know but I guess I'll accept it until Disney wants to change it
@@grandadmiralthrawn8116 officially it should not be canon because it was stated by george lucas in an interview. But as I don't care for disney at all I would still consider it canon especially since we have no other number.
Stargate franchise still has more insane hyperspace speeds. Even more insane when we talk about the gate itself.
Well the speeds depend on the amount of power needed to power the drive and what shielding the ships have, as while the Wraith have the power their organic ships don't have the shielding to go more than 50 light years per jump.
Star Trek also has even faster speeds, since it's the only franchise with a drive as fast as infinity.
@Nick Walsh Transwarp drive? Which grants you the ability to cross the galaxy in seconds?
To be fair to SG.. The technology that is used for propulsion is millions of years old. So, there's a definite possibility that over that time the Ancients and other such races have a firmer understanding of astrophysics and how to side-step the "rules" than we do today. There is also the possibility that once a ship leaves a galaxy's gravitational influence higher speeds may be possible than we would see within it. I know, I'm grasping at straws, but who knows?
AvengerBB1
Iirc there was an ancient ship traveling at nearly the speed of light on sublights alone. That’s pretty crazy.
In SW lore, hyperspace is pretty much teleport. The distance traveled matters little, what makes going to point A to point B take a second or a year is how well know an hyperspace route is, how powerfull your navicomputer is and how many jumps are required to get in there.
You could travel from the core to the tip of the galaxy arm in a second if your route was solid enough, or you could take a century navigating inside a nebula to find your way out. Distance is not a problem in SW lore, how you know your path is.
THE FORCE IS THE ONLY PATH. THATS WHY LEIA FLYS IN SPACE! HERRRRRR DERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Distance and speed are not the issue yes. It's more about smacking into things en route. Some hyper drives ARE slower than others, but most ships only care about smacking into other objects.
In the strategy games for star wars some hyperspace lains were way faster then others so that could be why the number changed.
The better mapped a lane is, the less likely you're going to smash into something, the faster you can go towards your drives max speed. Most of the 'slowness' in hyper space is going slow on purpose to not smack into things, or have at least some time to try and react if you're about too.
An interesting topic as usual, here's some of my thoughts!
Given the upper limit of your estimates I see a very real problem. When traveling at some millions of times the speed of light a delay of even a tiny fraction of a second would probably equal missing your target by some millions of kilometers. I didnt do the math but it would be interesting to see what kind of accuracy would be needed to slot a ship into a position where the target planet is clearly visible as we see many times in the films. I bet that at your upper speed estimate it would come down to femtoseconds!
So practically speaking I imagine travel is done with a series of jumps at ever reduced speeds and ever increasing accuracy.
They may make 99% of the jump to Canto with one very long fast leg aiming for some light years wide void so as to miss any objects. Then they re calculate another jump at a slower velocity to get closer to the target. Perhaps trading off fuel efficiency with multiple rapid jumps vs one very slow but accurate jump?
On the return trip they do the same, a long rapid leg to get to the region the fleet is in, then we come in to witness the final low speed high accuracy jump across the last few parsecs.
Thats the basics of my idea, but I think theres lots of light canon proof that covering that distance naturally takes many jumps. Like the jagged line marking their course.
Then theres oddities like watching Han and others manually engage and disengage hyperdrive, with human reaction time being in the half second range I cant see us possibly navigating hyperspace with knobs and levers.
DrewLSsix And thats why hyperspace tracking isnt a thing
Multiple jumps
Here's some headcanon for your final paragraph: Han isn't controlling the hyper jump directly, but rather cutting the hyperdrive in and out of the ship's functions once calculations or the trip is complete. It seems logical to me that you wouldn't want your normal space thrusters interfering with your trajectory in hyperspace, so the levers would be like shifting a car into neutral and letting the "jet engine on the roof" (hyperdrive) power it until you reach your destination. Once there, the hyperdrive shuts down automatically at precisely the right instant and location, and the pilot re-engages the n-space engines and controls so that they can maneuver.
The only problem I see with what you are saying is...
Inertia.
We know inertia is a thing because of the hyperspace ram. The reason that worked using a smaller ship is that mass had velocity. Which means that destroying a planet would be easy (attach hyperspace engines to a mass, point them at a planet and BLAMO). Just leave the mass moving at the higher speed, right?
Second, you have a navigation problem.
When you come out of hyperspace near where a planet blew up.... oh wait.
You have inertia running in to an asteroid field (planetary debris field). How can you detect it AND drop out of hyperspace fast enough not to be obliterated by that debris running into you at.... a REALLY high rate of speed. Yes, it probably MUST be slower than the speed of light, but that’s still pretty damn fast ;)
Anyway, that’s a lot of compute cycles to spend on something that isn’t real.... yet.
@@EverettVinzant kinda hard to hyperspace into a planet when the hyperdrive shuts down or simply doesn't work in a gravity well, isn't it?
@@EverettVinzant a few Problems Come up with your theory:
1. the Star Wars Hyperdrive Tends to Automaticall Shut down near a Gravity well of sufficent Mass, Such as a planet, star or Black hole (the Interdictor Star Destroyer was Designed specifically to pull ships out of Hyperspace using this method, Just parks itself where they THINK you're gonna pass and wait for you to be Forced out of Hyperspace somewhere Nearby it, and yes that thing is Cannon, it showed up in Rebels)
2. a Ship does not Carry the Inertia of it's Relative Speed when it's in Hyperspace When it re-enters Normal space. think of Hyperspace as More of a Shortcut to your Destination though a Space where Distances are Compressed. Kinda Like taking an Express Elevator rather than Taking the Stairs that Wind around it, the two don't Interact with each other despite going to the same places and you don't Expect the elevator to Explode through the Roof Just because it WAS moving fast a Moment ago.
3. the Hyperspace Ram Only works Short Range, In the Space where your Ship is still Accelerating and Being Pulled into Hyperspace, during that Less than a second when your Ship is Still Somewhat Solid... To use that Elevator Analogy from earlier, if you wanna Grab someone Standing outside the Elevator to use the Force of the Elevator to Smash em against the Ceiling, you're gonna need to Stick your Arm out the Open door BEFORE it Starts Rising while it's Still on his Floor, No point in trying to do it after you've already Got the elevator at top speed Past the 5th Floor of it's Ride, even if there's someone else at that Level...
Given how little thought was put into Last Jedi in general I can’t imagine they seriously sat down and decided how fast hyperspace jumps were.
Exactly, I would take it with the largest possible grain of salt
I think slipstream or transwarp is hyperspace in Star Trek
It would take voyager 8 hours to get home lmao 😂
ya star trek has transwarp which is their version of hyperspace
Yes and No, Transwarp works with Lanes, like your traditional Hyperdrive.
Thats why the Borg needed the Unimatrix Complex hich served as a "Hub"
You need Start and Endpoints and you could access those Tunnels or Lanes just with the Transwarp Drive.
Then theres Warp 10, which is the "everywhere and nowhere" thing.
Hyperspace is the actual Term used in Star Trek.
They "travel" through Hyperspace or Subspace even though they still travel through normal Spacetime, its just a term they use for that.
Slipstream is again a different story, but is similar to Transwarp.
You simply cant compare those things :D
Transwarp was a combination of warp drive and transporter tech that caused a ship to "fall" into a transporter beam directed in front of the ship during warp speeds. It caused the upper reaches of speeds to hit up to warp 15 in extreme cases but was terribly unreliable. It didn't really work in any capacity until the end of Next Generation when warp 13 was typical. Going much faster than that was never really played upon in any series that I can recall.
The Star Wars hyperspace was more like a wormhole generator using traffic lanes. You don't punch hyperspace without coordinates due to the fact that shields don't work and running in to something was instant death.
In Star Trek you can move at warp speed in any direction in three dimensions but in Star Wars it's more like taking the Interstate Highway system, eventually no matter how straight you go you'll eventually have to slow down and make a turn somewhere.
4:26 That actually makes a lot of sense. Accelerating to top speed and decelerating from it must be accounted for as well, just like using long and relatively straight (usually) ramps to accelerate to freeway speeds and decelerate therefrom. Even if the ships themselves are capable of much more rapid changes in velocity, the human body isn't, with anything above 9g or about 88 m/s^2 being considered lethal. Hyperspace may allow incomprehensibly fast travel, but you can't just snap your fingers and be traveling at that rate. I know hyperspace is technically more of an alternative or higher dimension rather than a pure superluminal speed, but the transition from "classical" space to hyperspace and vice versa must still be survivable in order for it to be a viable method of transportation.
The in-world theory is that the ships aren't accelerating to that speed, but the drive is "warping" spacetime around the ship. Hence the inertial effects on the crew are minimal.
Ships are NOT moving through space, they are warping it or entering subspace. There is no acceleration nor deceleration. Completely different from Newtonian physics.
See? Star Trek is superior to the point they didn't even go overkill with speed.
**grabs popcorn**
Yeeea, the traveler isn’t fast at all.
You where expecting a heavy discussion in this comment section but you got proven guilty by Q and sentenced to an eternity of blankness
I have a good comparison for how hyper-lanes work in Star Wars. In Elite Dangerous, when your starship is in supercruise, your speed is limited when you get close to a large body of mass like a planet or a star. The further away you stay from these objects, the faster you can go. Now apply this to Star Wars. This explains why the deep core is such a clusterfuck to navigate through and why it takes so goddamn long; there's way too much mass there. But on the further-out edges of the galaxy, there's not as much mass, meaning it's much easier to go at high speed. Like in Elite Dangerous, you'd always weave neatly between planets to maintain a high speed so you can get to your destination faster.
Nicely put. There's nothing more exciting in Elite Dangerous than getting in between the solar systems of a couple stars, cranking the engines to maximum and hitting essentially Warp 15+ because there's barely any gravitational pull and there's likely no heliopause pushing against the ship.
You do realize you made the Voyager speed able to do 70,000 light years in less than 13 years instead of the Canon 75 years?
I think the 75 years is at a cruising speed of warp 5 or 6. I think I saw somewhere that the warp rating of a ship is what it can maintain for an extended, but not indefinite, time. Somewhere in the vicinity of 12-48 hours or something like that. It has a higher speed, but maintaining the maximum too long (less than an hour😲) causes permanent damage to the engines.
@@MurraySevern_of_Australia Thank you that's a good point, but that still means they would take longer than 75 years then 13.
Janway states at maximum warp speed, now I'm not denying she probably doesn't mean at 24/7 but still picked
75 years was an upper limit for their own tech. The reason it's done in so much less time is shortcuts through other technologies, wormholes etc.
That's cute. In SW, that's what's called a short bus ride.
This is why, in the Sci-Fi series I'm writing, I make calculations like this while I'm writing. Just for people like this. 🤣
(Top speed in my universe is 30,000c)
Mit Whit Gaming Nice to see someone else who wants to keep their universe as consistent as possible. Although your FTL is much faster than mine (Alcubierre Drive, max speed 2000c).
@@ARandomCogboi Ya, I wanted my characters to be able to cross 10,000 light years in 6 months, so that they could be used in any part of my fictional empire.
Mit Whit Gaming nice. I build everything in my universe around the idea of a war that has lasted hundreds of years (and would probably continue for that long), and to make that concept much more painful, I made the Tellurian Empire (Humans from Earth, the good guys) big enough that it would still take years to cross it. Also, there is no FTL communication in my universe. Messages either have to be carried aboard ship of travel for millennia through space, so that the family of a soldier lost in battle might not even know he died until years later. It’s really dark, I know. ;)
I'm working on a universe where around 250,000c is the top, but more than 80% of the MilkyWay is the backdrop so it still takes time to get anywhere. Actually using a mix of hyperspace from Babylon 5 with a form of CDP to accelerate once in hyperspace with this being the only time that max can be reached. A lower form of CDP limited to around 1500c is used while in planetary systems to reduce the risk of possible spatial disruptions caused by higher end propulsion. Trying to use science, and avoid techno babble where I can to focus on characters and plot. lol
AvengerBB1 Interesting. My fictional Empire just uses its Warp drive for STL, only using its actual thrusters when in planetary orbit (or when their Warp ring is damaged). That’s most likely how it would be done in real life, and I’m trying to keep everything as hard Sci-Fi as possible.
"A rinky-dink shuttle in Star Wars is almost 14,000 times faster than a cutting-edge vessel in Star Trek."
Everyone liked that.
29th century Star Trek vessels can casually time travel anywhere. ::shrugs::
@@Acrosurge 33th century federation is a federation of Q
@@Acrosurge a time lord ?
no it ridiculed
Star Wars takes place in a micro galaxy.
Henry: *Makes incredible videos with impressive technicality.*
Also Henry: *Uses The Last Jedi for technical details... The one where turbolaser bolts arc in space like they were cannonballs in Earth...*
Yeah, TLJ is probably the worst source for technical details. Like, the Finn-Rose collision, it just doesn't make sense unless Rose is a force user who can bend space and time to her will which would explain the round trip much better, come to think of it!
To be fair, it's all we got in canon.
The fastest hyper drive speed that I can recall was in one of the volumes of the original Thrawn Trilogy.
If I remember correctly, Mara Jade was imprisoned on a Victory-class Star Destroyer in which she noted from the vibration/throb from the engines it was moving at near it's maximum speed of 700 LY-ph.
there was a living starship called Jabitha with a class 1 hyperdrive, but when piloted by anakin, was overclocked to a 0.4 class via the force. fastest hyperdrive in legends
2:24 only if they use a few wormholes, borg transwarp network, and an enhanced engine. More like 8 years without them
Rian Johnson got nominated for best screenwriting but didn't specify how fast hyperspeed is just like George Lucas never did? What an awful writer!!! :(((
The heart of gold makes even star wars look slow, as the infinite improbability drive allows them to just suddenly appear at any point they want in the universe instantly.
And yet is that used a lot?
@@HolyknightVader999 Certainly, especially in the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy series, but the very nature of the drive means that it can be, is, and also is not in an infinite amount of universes (including your favourite one) just with an infinitely small probability of arriving there. To wit, it's technically not as if it even moved- it simply appears at the destination as if it were already there.
@@sunshadow7XK So it's more of a portal device to other worlds? Gotcha.
@@HolyknightVader999 Not really a portal. More like, a teleporter. Although regardless the trip is always hell. Even if the travel time is 10 seconds it might feel like hours or even years and while that time passes you see & experience maddening things.
@@HolyknightVader999 the infinite improbability drive calculates how improbable it would be for your ship to suddenly vanish and reappear in the location you desire to go. once it calculated the exact improbability, the drive would begin generating improbability. as soon as it ramps up to infinite improbability, it passes through all existing points in all conceivable universes, and you just have to use the previously calculated improbability to tell it to stop there. sadly the drive can only generate improbability figures for one improbable event at a time, so if its busy calculating the chances of a hot cup of tea appearing in front of you, then it wont be much help doing anything else until its done, but at least you wont have to bother with all the tedious mucking about in hyperspace
The Enterprise in the ST - TOS episode "Obsession" travelled over 1000 ly's in only 24 hours. And in the episode That Which Survives also travels almost 1000 light years at similarly insane speeds!!
You're forgetting about the hyperdrive class rating. Not all ships have the same class. The venator for example had a class 1 hyperdrive, and the falcon has a class .5 hyperdrive.
Bruh
@@FormerBunsenBurner what? Just say'in
He did mention the class of drive so idk what your on about
@@LeePelagius honestly I can't remember remember what the video was about. So I can't tell you what I was thinking.
@@spunkychops7484 forgot what it was about. And who uses their fathers lube?
OR, say it with me. "DISNEY FUCKED IT UP."
Digest. Repeat.
What about Borg Transwarp and Quantum Slipstream? Are those about on par with Hyperspace?
Last I checked, Quantum Slipstream is exactly the Star Trek equivalent down to the effects.
Only became widespread by 2409
I liked the idea of quantum slipstream because it was a great way for
Star Trek to move forward (if you forgive the pun) and perhaps in later series set after the TNG era it would have been a great way of moving the final frontier out of the Milky Way.
Patrick Lloyd But some ships had it in 2381/2382, although a very small number of Federation ships that is.(in the Voyager re-launch novels)
Transwarp conduits and also Subspace corridors... look, ultimately these two franchises inhabit completely different universes. Complete with different physics. Star Trek is modeled closer to what ours is, whereas Star Wars is Space Fantasy. Odd that Star Trek ended up with the space elves though. As far as tech goes, I'd say the SW galaxy is obviously more homogenous in terms of tech level. In fact it seems actually quite stagnant. Yes they keep on slapping together bigger and bigger planet killers... I mean seriously, the empire must honestly employ the most underendowed leadership in existence, but they don't really progress massively. Whereas with ST there is a definite developmental curve, and small views into the future showing levels of tech that would eventually surpass those of the SW universe. I'm not talking Q here, but I am talking temporal ships etc.
It really is quite pointless to try and measure them against each other. When all you have is the writer team's imagination, one-up-manship becomes as easy as... "My Superduperdeluxe Stardestroyer with upsized turbo lasers can blow a hole through a star, so your federation vessels don't stand a chance... so, so... so I win!!!"
It's definitely in the right ballpark, though with varying figures.
You have a ship that goes that fast why not just put everyone in that ship, do a couple of round trips and everyone is safe.
-Plinkett
Plinkett’s arguments are funny, but usually easy to refute. Assuming that this shuttle is their only option for faster-than-light escape, less than 20 hours is hardly enough time to offload 400 people. It can probably hold only 5 or so people if they’re squeezed in, which means we’re looking at 160 total hyperspace jumps. Each jump (including loading and unloading) would need to last shorter than 7 minutes. Even if we double or triple the evacuation capacity, it’s a longshot. Poe and Holdo both probably figured their respective plans were better than this alternative.
Not to mention the ship would have to steal fuel from the Raddus, shortening time left (not by much, probably), and, assuming such a thing is true, the Resistance pod's hyperdrive may need a cooldown period that lasts longer than seven minutes.
Couldn't you just go to the gambling planet steal a faster than light ship or 2 that could accommodate everyone? Ray stole the Millenium Falcon like it was a bike. That's the problem, once you escape from being chased there are numerous logical things you can do that is better for changing the outcome than hack the enemy that would be way more satisfying to the audience.
That's a good idea, but it seems easier said than done. Security on Canto Bight is probably better than it is at Niima Outpost. DJ was able to steal a space yacht because he's a master thief.
@@forfluf you have to assume that a single shuttle coming and going once is harder to miss than a small fleet coming directly to the pursued ships and leaving again. The Radus was very well shielded and able to take the extreme range shots, likely a random collection of ships wouldn't fare as well. The MSD is STILL able to track ships through hyperspace. It really doesnt matter if they swap ships mid chase.
Holdos plan to evacuate the ships and cover their escape in secret is probably the best plan available that doesn't just prolong the chase and would have worked if they were jot ratted out by the hacker.
I think your giving SW writers far more credit than they deserve. I doubt accurate distances even entered their tiny minds.
The last Jedi isn't a movie to base anything on because Disney star wars is inconsistent
Hmmm...nope.
On the original novel of the first movie we are told that "Hyperspace" is another dimension with different rules than those of the regular "Space".
A ship that enters "Hyperspace" needs NOT to be faster,but better at navigation,Han Solo explains to Luke that precise navigation is the key to succesful space travel in their universe.
Just think about it,how much time did they spent on the voyage from Tatooine to Alderaan?
Luke learned the basics to use the Lightsaber (without losing a limb) and became friend to both Han and Chewbacca (to the point of knowing that Han could be lured into helping a "Rich" princess on distress)
It was not a few moments.
Ok so if hyper space is another dimension, how does admiral Holdo take a star ship going into hyperspace and ram a star ship that's not in hyper space?
Considering hyperspace as an alternate dimension, it still takes time to travel into it. Therefore, there will be a brief moment at which the ship is half in and half out, at which it will appear to be in realspace travelling at near lightspeed. Factoring a sufficient mass shadow between two large ships (and these two were hecking massive), they could collide in that window.
This isn’t really related but I love the design of the resistance shuttle. It’s just a nice little compact ship, that also has a hyperdrive! It would definitely be a ship I would want to have in Star Wars.
And the TARDIS is faster still
"last jedi finaly gives" kessel run " am i a joke to you"
Wars and Trek speeds, weapons, numbers have always been based on plot requirements. I love both :-)
Spore drive was chad it could single handily cancelled Star Trek voyager to one episode
It's Disney, not known for it's accuracy in continuity.
*Light Speed is too slow. We need to straight to... LUDICROUS SPEED*
The big problem with hyperspace though is it's very limited in it's use. You can only go somewhere that is already mapped, there are beacons required, and you must travel along proscribed routes, which leads to nexus points that control access, and that become strategic points that control access to further systems along the route.
The best way to think of it is as railway lines, you can travel very fast but only via predetermined paths.
With warp drive you can go anywhere you want, even if no one had been there ever. You can use it to go "cross country" and outflank others, and to move short distances to get in a better position (The only limitations on it are you can't use it in atmosphere). It's versatile.
Think of it as a very rugged 4WD or maybe even tracked vehicle. Can go anywhere it wants via any route, and to hell with traffic directions. Militarily it can also be used for drive by's, which is hard to pull off from a train.
So hyperspace is better strategically (and only in predeveloped paths), but warp travel is far far superior tactically, and is advancing to become better strategically as speed increases and increases and increases till eventually 29th century Federation ships can arrive before they left. In 400 years Star Wars vessels might be a little bit faster, but then considering the fastest ship is a modified freighter that is at least 90 years old that might not be the case.
But for all those Star Wars fanboys that have to always be the best, remember this, Star Trek has time travel, even in the time of Kirk. So since the timelines don't interact he could just go back to before Anakin was conceived and kill his mother. But knowing Kirk, he'd probably seduce her instead, which is how this whole mess got started.*
[* I didn't come up with this, I just shamelessly stole it. Well, a little guilt, but I still knicked it.]
The hyperdrives in Stargate circumvent this problem by having better navigation sensors and their ships phase shift the moment they enter preventing accidental ramming of solid matter.
Actually they do somewhat of same thing with warp. One thing that is not mentioned much is that space flight, in what every universe you are in is that you are never actually flying. No matter where you are in space, you are in the Hill Sphere influence of some gravitational body, be it a planet or galactic mass. You are always orbiting something. This means that you have to have accurate stapmaps to plan. When the captain says "lay in a course" that is exactly what they are doing, albeit the computer plots the course base on the input, but it is the same thing. A good example of this is in Star Trek Generations where data and picard are in the astromectrics lab (starmap room) and you can see the effect that the destruction of the star made several ships replot their warp trajectories. And this is why I love star trek... there is so much going on behind the scenes that most laymen have no clue about.
lol that last part
Unmapped hyperspace jumps are possible in Star Wars, they're just not used unless in an emergency because mapped hyperspace lanes are usually the safest routes to a given destination. It's like going offroad vs taking the highway, one is clearly safer and more practical than the other. [As a matter of fact, what many call the worst scene in The Last Jedi is an unmapped hyperspace jump.]
Yea, I'm thinking that trying to ascribe Newtonian physics to the Star Wars universe is an exercise in futility.
According to George Lucas, Pablo Hidalgo, Dave Filoni, and Irvin Kirshner, Star Wars isn't even, "Sci-fi."
During a, "Behind the scenes/Making of The Empire Strikes Back," documentary, Irvin Kirshner described it as a, "Science Fantasy."
And even mentioned that it would be mostly a waste of time, to attempt to attach our Earthly notions of physics.
(Not that that would ever stop the fandom from trying, of course.)
You could say, that since it's a pretty well known fact that even reaching any significant percentage of the speed of light is physically impossible lol its probably best to not spend too many brain cells on trying to reconcile distances and time scales in a fictional universe.
But, entertaining video nonetheless!!!👍
You can still make a practical estimates, like a ship crosses the galaxy in x hours so effective speed is therefore X, even if the mechanics involved in how they do it are fantastical
Star Trek is even more of a space fantasy since the technobabble isn't consistent and you have a walking plot device in the form of Q. At least with a Force-sensitive, there's limits to what they can do, and each piece of SW tech has a defined purpose.
What this is telling me, is not that we have an actual speed for hyperspeed, but that Disney ruined yet another aspect of Star Wars with their incompetent script writing.
Well, arguably it had been going that sort of direction since Episode 3, with the very fast implied journey the Emperor made to Mustafar, @Will Andersen . Still, I share the frustration. And TROS makes it even worse.
@@chrissonofpear1384 Legends " Atlas to the Galaxy," shows the location of Mustafar from the Core worlds, more or less measure to being within two to three days worth of hyperspace travel. Due to the pacing of the movie and it's action fight scenes, both saber fights happen at the same time for the film. In RPG table top, Yoda sends off Kennobi and goes to fight the Emperor. Emperor runs off Yoda and uses the skill Farseeing to quick see Anakin's future, then goes to rescue Vader. Few days later Anakin gets his legs cut out from under him and left to burn, and the Emperor saves him.
From a certain point of view, from following the pacing of the Clone War novels and the table top RPG, the Emperor could have warn Anakin days in advance that Kennobi was going to pop up on Anakin but didn't warn him. Just goes to show how much and how big of a dick the Emperor was.
As for the Atlas of the Galaxy grid square map, hyperdrive rating system of class: 1, covers about 5,000 light year per hour/ one sq. faster due to Astrogation computer skill checks and having the proper space lanes. Fun note KOTOR/ Saga 4e edition RPG which takes place 3,000 the Clone Wars, Class 2 was their class: 0.5, so in one regard it took a few thousand years to get 5,000ly per 4hours down to 1hr of travel time. And if you played the numbers right with the RPG any ship with enough computers could pull off one sq/ 5,000ly in 5 to 10 minutes of travel time. But you will need like fifty astro mech/ R2-D2 to do so, and the Falcon only has four droid brains running his flight computer.
My last RPG shop was full of wargaming math nerds.
@@krispalermo8133 Yes, for the Essential Atlas 5000 to 5200 LY per square is about right (depends if the whole 23 by 23 grid covers a 100,000 or 120,000 LY diameter, depending on references) but the way the film is shot, it's hard to believe Palpatine takes more than a few hours to get to Mustafar.
Myself, I tend to average a class one hyperdrive at about 6000 to 7000 LY/ph, with the Falcon able to do twice that, but that's obviously rather loose.
That's a lot of words to say "both Star Wars and Star Trek never adhere to any previously established in-universe rules and there is zero plausibility nor continuity to their respective fictional laws of nature and technology".
my personal answer im not saying it's exact but my answer to that is that ships have different speed, scale, mass, brand, types, and engines meaning they differ in many things and that difference affects the speed each ship go for instance; CR-90 corvettes travel faster than MC-75 ships because they differ from size to speed. Like what I said, ships are not same because they are uniquely made. But dont judge me because that's just my opinion
The Intrepid class isn't really that slow even compared to hyperspace. Its quantum slipstream engine grants it the ability to cross one quarter of the galaxy in mere minutes.
And then for Star Trek other FTL methods as fast or even faster than Hyperpace are: Transwarp drive, Infinite drive, Iconian gates and the tought drive.
according to EC Henry's other video, quantum slipstream travels 0.82 ly in 10 seconds
Don't forget about the new spore drive in St Discovery :)
And how often did you see quantum slipstream, transwarp and so in the show?
It just does not make sense to use rare modes of travel for comparison. (Also warp speed can vary by quite a bit depending on where you look in Star Trek)
The Star Wars Galaxy is 120,000 Light-years across, not 100,000. This changes your math a bit, still, good work.
And the fact you can't fly in a straight line...you can, but not a good idea.
I don't think, in Star Wars they gave much consideration to physics or logic. That show is not aimed at SciFi lovers but at people who enjoy fairy tales. Actual sci fi fans who went astray with Star Wars are eventually disappointed. So to it's viewers Star Wars has no obligation at all towards science or the logic of physics. So yeah, speed of plot as someone said :-)
Yeah Star Wars is and always was intended to be more science fantasy, but I don't think that you will be disappointed with Star wars as a SciFi fan simply because your a SciFi fan, that's like saying you won't enjoy Harry Potter because your a SciFi fan and I would still consider Star Wars or most of science fantasy in general as a sub group of the Science fiction genre (which I would based on setting divide into science fantasy (franchises that are set in scifi environments but don't focus so much exploring the effects of the setting more taking it as a base premise), "classical scifi" (franchises like star Treck that are more focused on what consequences a SciFi setting has) and finally hard scifi (franchises that try to give a scientifically accurate universe, usually with far less technobable then the second category, things like the expanse for example).
Of course these are all categories on a scale so not all franchises can be neatly placed in one of the categories and especially huge franchises like star wars or Treck (although to a lesser extent) do vary between stories on where they fit on the scale and there are of course also other methods to group them based on different criteria.
Regardless of whether SW is a fairy tale fantasy or SciFi internal consistency is still important, to avoid creating plot holes and absurdities.
Comparing the ftl drives between star wars and star trek is just stupid. You can not turn in hyperspace, you have to drop out and turn, also you need to calculate the trip before you start it. Warp drives are much more flexible. You are also dealing with different physics.
It just proves the movie is an even bigger mess than some of the other ones.
The Millenium Falcon is clearly a lot slower, as it takes a few days to get from Tatooine to Alderaan. And that ship is supposed to be fast.
Source for days? It could have been hours since if i recall nobody had a change of cloths during the journey either on the Falcon or Leia in the prison.. In facts there's lots of examples like this. Take Obi Wan travelling from Coruscant to Kamnio (so like half the galaxy) in a one man fighter with no bathroom or facilities... or Rogue One, when the rebel fleet flies from Yavin IV to Scarif (about half the galaxy) in time to save Rogue One on the ground, implying flight time of probably less than an hour. Military ships in Star Wars can fly around the galaxy in much less than a day.
@@blastech4095 Less. The trip from Tatooine to Aldreaan is seemingly over in minutes - in the scene where Luke is training with the practice droid, Han comes out of the cockpit talking about he had outrun the Imperial Star Destroyers blockading Tatooine, which insinuates that they just jumped to hyperspace and Han was making sure the ship was on course before leaving the cockpit to brag. The scene goes on for a few minutes, Obi-Wan feels the destruction of Alderaan, then the proximity sensor goes off and Han remarks that they are about to arrive at Alderaan before heading to the cockpit with Chewie. That entire scene is about 3 and a half minutes and is continuous without cutting away to other scenes, so the distance between the two planets may just be a matter of minutes for the Falcon.
Also the Millennium Falcon is fast for something like 30 years ago. While technological advancement in Star Wars is very inconsistent there has at least definitely been some between the original trilogy and the new trilogy since the Rebels have completely switched out most of their old spaceships with newer ones. Plus Millennium Falcon was a smuggling ship trying to evade the Empire but in TLJ the First Order doesn't really have full control over the galaxy and the place they're going is definitely some sort of free area. I also always interpreted the YT class as being fast for cargo carrying vessels but it's just clearly not faster than an X-wing. It's just a very fast craft for it's class which is what makes it so attractive to smugglers.
Not really. All it took is a few hours.
This is what I love about the Honorverse book series by David Weber - it's consistent. During battle or just when moving in system, you constantly read the numbers. "The distance is X and with acceleration Y it will take us Z hours with decelartion to 0" or the same for missiles. When you actually punch all these number to calculator, they match up. I'm fan o mathematical accuracy everywhere so I can't speak up for casual reader, but to me this makes those books so believable...
No, Honorverse runs on asspulls that try to hide behind the numbers. See all the magical techs they pull out of their behind, despite being tiny one star state that somehow can outresearch Haven with hundreds of worlds (or League with tens of thousands). Technology doesn't work that way, even if for some magical reason Haven couldn't match the cutting edge tech, they could use their material advantage to circumvent this with laughable ease. See Soviet T-72, tank that matched the Abrams much thicker armor by being smaller (and replacing crew members with machinery) to keep similar armor thickness while being 20 tons lighter by presenting much smaller, more efficient profile. Why they keep trying to make the same ships with less instead of thinking out of the box (building megadreadnoughts if size is so good?) I have no idea.
Also, that lazy jerk can't even keep numbers straight. At the start, Haven is 20-30% behind in tech compared to protagonists. 6 books later, their tech is better by 50%, yet somehow isn't even at the protagonist starting level from book one despite 50 >>> 20. Go figure. And there are tons of examples like that...
@@KuK137 What do you mean that the T-72 matched the Abram's armor? Like in effective protection or what? Also the physical size of armor isn't so much an issue on modern tanks as the weight it takes up, Abrams tanks use ceramics which weigh less than their steel counter parts but take up more space. I don't think the T-72 is a good comparison here though, the T-90 series which is based on the same hull anyways would be a better comparison since it's the one that's actually being upgraded to keep up with the Abrams series. The T-90MS and M1A2 SEP v3 are roughly equal on most factors.
I'm a purist, and would only use the distance from Tattooine to Alderran as the basis. Disney can't Star Wars well enough to be considered a worthy standard for comparison.
Wonder how this compares to Mass Effect FTL and also when using the arrays.
Yea from what we are told in the games relay travel is almost instant (the evidence being when Shepard unlocked the citadel relay at the end of ME1 and the alliance jumped in almost instantly) so relay travel is incredibly fast especially between primary relays that can be more than half a galaxy apart. I think the real limiting factor is travailing at FTL (14ly per day for most ships, Reapers were around 30) between relays in system (I know the game only shows one relay on the map but from what we have hear in game and the codex is that primary relays only go to one other paired primary relay, only secondary relays can go to multiple destinations and the distance they can cover is substantially smaller) so having to travel across a system or to another system in a cluster to get to the next relay on your journey would be where the real travel time would accumulate.
haha sorry that turned into a lot more text than I expected.
Basically, travel between primary relays is instant. They're locked into each other and create a perpetual field of Mass Effect that lowers the mass of objects inside infinitely so that engines are able to push their crafts to the absolute theoretical limit. Ships enter, burn for a few seconds to accelerate, turn around and burn the opposite way to decelerate, and then finally flip back to a "forward" face and exit the relay at a survivable speed. This happens in seconds. Secondary relays connect to several other relays on a network and can't maintain the same Mass Effect as the primary relays, so while mass is significantly lower, it's not enough to reach the top speeds that one could reach in a primary relay. Secondary relay trips take several hours to a few days based on in-game time frames, like the jump between the Omega-4 and the Collector base taking I believe it's 4 hours, or long enough for some crew on the Normandy to have a romantic encounter.
Star Trek = science fiction
Star Wars = science fantasy
That is all.
Star Trek has magic in it. That is all.
With the twisting routes they take through hyperspace it could be possible that speeding up and slowing down at certain points in the journey is necessary. If the "tunnels" we see on screen already exist (in subspace maybe, is that a thing in Star Wars?) and the ships just navigate them then they might have to slow down for turns and such 🤔
Subspace = dimension "below" normal space / Hyperspace = dimension "above" normal space
So a trip through well-mapped hyperspace routes should go by quickly, but explore and go into unmapped areas, the ships would move considerably slower, lest the astromech navigates them into a black hole's gravity well...
Well, do they ever explain what Hyperspace is in SW or how it works? The real world hypothesis is that Hyperspace is basically a fifth dimension of space and that, assuming 3D space is folded somewhat in the fifth dimension, there should be shortcuts between certain points in 3D space. If that's what's happening in SW, then how long it takes to get from one system to another world depend greatly upon where the 5D wrinkles are. Maybe the fastest shortcut between Tatooine and Coruscant takes 2 days to traverse, but if the Galaxy folded around entirely in 5D space (think a C shape), the journey depicted in Last Jedi might only take 5 hours.
Also, I like the idea that they might be speeding up and slowing down. That would explain why it takes them 3 minutes to travel the last 4 parsecs. But that would seem to fit more with a view of them just going really fast rather than traversing 5D shortcuts. Thoughts? Does any official or EU source give more credence to one of those views?
Any more on Kaluza Klein theory perhaps? Ripples in the fifth dimension...
The Science of Interstellar book by Kip Thorne was also interesting.
Star Wars ships travel super fast because the story is about what takes place when you get to the destination. Star Trek ships don't travel quite as fast because part of the story is the journey and the adventure taking place on the way to your destination.
I think when George Lucas landed on Earth in his 2o’s, he didn’t really understand hyperspace, being a prince from Alderan, someone else worried about that stuff. He was high born after all.
George Lucas always managed to give little enough information about it that we could suspend belief and focus on the story, where Ryan Johnson didn't know what he was doing.
how do we know the Star Wars galaxy is as big as you assume it is, other than that is the estimated size of our own galaxy? maybe the map is accurate in the represented distance of Tatooine and Geonosis and the Galaxy Far Far Away is much smaller than our Milky Way? just an idea i'm surprised you didn't mention. honestly these analyses of Star Wars require a great deal of assumption as Star Wars even more than Star Trek is in service to the story and dramatic effect than scientific or technical consistency.
The Star Wars galaxy is a spiral type, meaning it's at least a few tens of thousands of lightyears across.
I love it when people analyze bullshit for some type of consistency and coherence
I think i have alzheimers, because I don't remember asking.
And even if you're one of those Last Jedi haters, the measurements therein are pretty consistent with the other movies. In Empire Strikes Back, a naval officer warns Vader that the Falcon could literally cross the galaxy in the time between them losing sight of the Falcon on their sensors and him finishing his sentence
The scene in TESB takes place in the outer rim pretty close to the edge of the galaxy. And Piett noted the Falcon would have left the galaxy at this point, not crossed it.
@@x3tc1 The line is "If the
Millennium Falcon went into light-speed, it'll be *on the other side of the galaxy by now*." Not "left the galaxy"
While I would agree overall Wars ships are Faster and Treks. Using anything from TLJ should immediately discredit the argument. That movie is full of so much Bullshit it almost Destroyed the franchise!😂
Thumbs down, way down. You keep using non-canon materials for Star Trek to make your case. We have seen an Intrepid-class starship go much faster in well-charted space. The USS Bellerophon travels from Deep Space Nine to Romulus in less than a week's time in "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges". We know from Star Trek: Enterprise's "Dead Stop" that Romulan territory is at least 130 light years from Earth, so assuming it took 6 days to reach Romulus, and we use the lowest distance possible, the USS Bellerophon could average at least 7,908 c. That's being conservative.
As indicated this is incredibly conservative as we see in the conversation Kira and Sen. Cretak have at the beginning of the episode:
KIRA: All right, that's it for today then. Same time next week? Oh sorry, Senator, you'll be attending that conference on Romulus, won't you?
CRETAK: Yes. But SubCommander Velal will be here in my place.
KIRA: Fine. Have a safe trip.
CRETAK: Thank you.
Cretak will be on Romulus that day of next week and the conference will probably take longer than just a mere day for all the delegates. Also, Bashir is visited by Sloan the night before departure, so it isn't as if they left that very day, but instead waited until at least the next morning. So no more than five days transit to Romulus or 10,950 c. Now this number can be doubled easily since we have seen canon maps of Federation territory that shows the relationships of where all the various factions are and it is clear that the distance is much greater between Bajor/ Deep Space Nine and Romulus, at least four times greater given that the two are on complete opposite sides of the Federation from one another. If we take Picard's line from First Contact at face value that the Federation is 8,000 light years wide, then the number goes up dramatically to at least 584,000 c.
And this isn't the only time we see starships traveling this fast, there are many such examples, which you have ignored in order to fit things to a non-canon technical manual. So why couldn't Voyager get home much faster, then, you ask? It's simple as the series itself provided an explanation at least three times: the travel time can be dramatically reduced as you get better navigational data on a region of space. The first hard mention of this is made in "Year of Hell, Part I":
JANEWAY: Space, the great unknown, Only now we're going to know it a little better. Harry?
(An image of our galaxy from above is divided into grids. Note to the interested, the long wig has finally been discarded and Janeway has Kate Mulgrew's natural shorter length hair.)
CHAKOTAY: Before there were maps and globes, let alone radar and subspace sensors, mariners navigated by the stars. We're returning to that tried and true method, but this time there's a difference.
JANEWAY: Ensign Kim and Seven of Nine have merged Starfleet and Borg ingenuity to create this new technology.And I'm sure I speak for the entire crew when I say, thank you. Now, how the hell does it work?
SEVEN: Astrometric sensors measure the radiative flux of up to three billion stars simultaneously. The computer then calculates our position relative to the centre of the galaxy.
KIM: This mapping technology is ten times more accurate than what we've been using. Seven, will you do the honours? We've plotted a new course home.
SEVEN: By my estimates this trajectory will eliminate five years from your journey.
NEELIX: Our journey. Nice work, Seven.
So there you have it, in Federation or other well-charted territories a starship can go very fast where as in unexplored space, they have to go much slower since the ship has to essentially poke around in the dark.
Finally, the other thing that you forgot to mention from Star Wars canon is that without hyperlanes, hyperspace travel is near impossible or speeds are limited to orders of magnitude slower. It was a major plot point in the Star Wars: The Clone Wars movie.
F
@Cosmic Ascendancy However, those speeds are dependent on well-charted hyperlanes. Otherwise, hyperspace travel is extremely limited as we saw in both the Clone Wars movie and subsequent TV series.
As a counterpoint, the Enterprise-D in "The Chase" has been estimated to having be capable of speeds well in excess of 2.5 million c in order to travel across the Alpha-Beta quadrants in "a few days" to search for evidence of an ancient galactic civilization. Given the number of stops involved and the time taken to search various planets, etc, this would be low-end estimate.
Actually the size of the Federation's territory in Star Trek is under great dispute. In DS9, the territory is treated as small and easily navigable, where as in TNG it was treated as gigantic and sprawling. Enterprise tried to take the middle path.
ruclips.net/video/i6l8MFdTaPE/видео.html
I wouldn't use anything in TLJ as source for analysis. There are too many plot holes and fallacies in the movie for it to be reliable.
Star wars ships just like the flash, run at the speed of lazy writing
Hyperspace in Stargate puts this to shame, at least when you bring Asgard ships into the mix. Someone did some calculations on Thor's ship, and it was able to go something like 30 billion c while towing Prometheus. And that's the older model. The O'Neill class was calculated to go over 1 quadrillion c. They can travel between galaxies in minutes. The fastest Earth ship (an Asgard hyperdrive powered by an Ancient ZPM) can go over 350 million c. We can just assume they didn't give Earth their fastest hyperdrive, or a power source capable of going nearly as fast as they can.
I remember in Legends canon saying how a ship could travel across the galaxy in about 2 weeks time, so this puts that in stark contrast.
My god I wish my life was so simple and secure that I could spend the time it takes to actually ponder things like this. What a world it would be. It’s nice to see some one gets to. Lol
I knew the hyperdrive was fast ‘causd Piett tells Vader in TESB if the Falcon went to lightspeed it and its passengers could be on the other side of the galaxy between the time It disappeared from the Avenger’s scopes and Piett’s report and it would take the USS Voyager over 70 years to travel back to the Alpha Quadrant from the other side of the galaxy in the Delta Quadrant.
JediLadyMisty That’s relative to the size of the galaxies though. Milky Way is much larger then the Star Wars galaxy.
Milky Way is around ~150,000ly (100,000 before 2015 and 150,000 - 200,000 after 2015) vs 100,000 ly star wars so not by much relatively speaking
I keep hearing different size estimates, sometimes closer to 120,000.
There is also that scene at the end of episode V (?) where they look out the ship's window at what is very likely the Star Wars galaxy. If their galaxy is 100,000 ly wide then I think they would have to be 500,000 ly away, and if it's 200,000 ly wide they could be 1,000,000 ly away.
It seems to be spinning too fast, and look too small, to be a real galaxy.
I've been thinking about this and I think I've wrapped my head around how hyperdrive works. Basically, a hyperdrive drags tachyons out of hyperspace and into realspace. Tachyons are hyper-accelerated superlight particles that can't travel below lightspeed. Being forced into realspace isn't "comfortable" for them because things in realspace can't travel beyond the speed of light and so the tachyons are bumping into a bunch of stuff that slow them down so they want to spring back into hyperspace like the poles of a magnet repeling each other. When one of these tachyons springs back into hyperspace, it creates a small force which accelerates the particles around it at light speed. In other words it pushes realspace particles into hyperspace with it. The hyperdrive suspends each of these tachyons in some sort of field (magnetic?) until it's built up enough to accelerate the entire ship. This pushes the ship at lightspeed without changing its mass or energy, basically cheating Einstein.
Now comes the part about hyperspace. Imagine the Dune Sea, tons of hills and valleys everywhere. Now imagine you want to get from one dune to the next. You could either take your bantha up and down through the hills and valleys between you and your destination or you could rig your speeder to move fast enough that you skip over the hills like a stone over water. The first option would take significantly longer because you have further to travel. In Star Wars, when you move faster than light you basically "skip off" of space time, gliding over the valleys and landing on the hills. This is why hyperspace lanes are calculated to avoid massive objects like stars. It's not that you'd collide with the star but fall into it's mass shadow.
Now I could be wrong. One area I'm unsure of is the "valleys" of this metaphor. Sure, you could drop out of hyperspace easily. Just purge the tachyon field and you'd lose momentum and fall back into realspace. But jumping back into hyperspace is the hard part. See, if I'm correct you'd have to jump the big H in a sort of gravitational sweet stop. I imagine that as mass bends spacetime there's a sort of crest that forms at a certain distance. It would be this spacetime crest that you're jumping from and between. So if you don't have a crest, like in deep space, I'm not sure you'd be able to make the jump. Instead you'd just skim along the surface so to speak at lightspeed until you found a crest to jump from. Then again, this could be another consideration when plotting routes and hyperspace lanes.
Thanks for the video. Some good figures based off of what you have to work with. Personally, I’ve always looked at hyperspace as being similar to transwarp in Star Trek. I hope we get more of that in the trek verse. And, of course, there was the quantum slipstream in Voyager. I would like to see that explored more.